S02.E05: Scream Therapy

[lovesnark]

31 minutes ago, divsc said:

Even though kids should never be used as pawns, every one of Betty's attorneys was trying to tell her to play the game, "behave," get custody of the kids, mothers almost always got custody if she would just cooperate, and then if she had the kids, she would get child support and a much more favorable settlement. 

She just kept being stubborn and doubling down. She also couldn't seem to let go of her plan that Dan would find being a father on his own annoying and come back home to her. She was in denial and delusional. 

She claims Dan was screwing her over with money but also that it wasn't about money. If it was all about the money, she would have listened to one of her high priced attorneys and gotten custody and gotten a nice big settlement. 

She really could not even stop herself from engaging with him. It's like Dan moved on, he wasn't trying to save the marriage or figure things out, and she was left with no recourse but to harass, scream, vandalize, and do things to get a reaction out of him. It was the only way she could get him to engage with her, even if it was in a negative way. Some attention was better than no attention. I think she had major personality disorders long before this divorce or Dan's affair. This may have accelerated it, and the rage is understandable - maybe breaking a dish or two, but for a pretty smart lady, she was not playing with a full deck.

The psychiatrists and psychologists that evaluated her all agreed she fit the criteria on all 9 points of narcissistic and histrionic personality disorders. I think they were both quite evident, especially the histrionics, before everything went to shit. 

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, Cheyanne11 said:

That really pissed me off.  Why didn't he hand them over to his divorce lawyer and have them transcribe it?  I feel like it a guy pulled that in today's climate, the assistant being asked to transcribe would have cause to file a complaint against him. 

I mean, presumably she gets paid to follow Dan's directions, even if she doesn't love the assignment.  Besides, even in today's environment, who would she be complaining to about the work?  It's Dan's firm. 

[DangerousMinds]

53 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I mean, presumably she gets paid to follow Dan's directions, even if she doesn't love the assignment.  Besides, even in today's environment, who would she be complaining to about the work?  It's Dan's firm. 

I’m sure his office has an HR department of sorts.

[txhorns79]

20 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I’m sure his office has an HR department of sorts.

And any complaint to HR would go to Dan.  He's the ultimate authority at his own firm.  He likely sets the job description for his secretary and can have her do personal dictation for him if he wants.   

[CraftyHazel]

Dan was an ass.  Whatever he was paying his secretary was certainly far less than he was paying his attorney, which is why he made her transcribe the calls, rather than his attorney.  Plus, it gives him one more person to whom he could show Betty’s nasty side.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I mean, presumably she gets paid to follow Dan's directions, even if she doesn't love the assignment.  Besides, even in today's environment, who would she be complaining to about the work?  It's Dan's firm. 

In today's climate, being made to transcribe Dan's private voicemail messages filled with vile language could constitute a hostile work environment. Even without the messages, Dan openly having an affair with Linda and promoting her despite her lack of qualifications would for sure constitute a hostile work environment for the other employees.

[Starlight925]

For Dan to have his secretary transcribe the voice mails is part of his sick, narcissistic behavior.  Narcissists gather "flying monkeys", i.e. people who will help spread how awful and crazy their ex is.  He knew she'd tell her friends just how awful those voice mails were, which helps Dan gather his case against Betty.

Not excusing Betty.  Sheesh, woman.  These days, we've all become so much more careful about putting anything in writing that can be used against us, but those voice mails....harassing, vulgar, obscenities.  She probably thought that it would upset Dan & Linda, they'd delete, and she'd leave more messages.  

She likely never thought he'd record them which was actually a really smart thing for Dan to do.  But for Dan to then make his secretary transcribe?  Yeah, he was banking on the fact that she'd spread the word.  

[TexasGal]

55 minutes ago, Sterling said:

She likely never thought he'd record them which was actually a really smart thing for Dan to do.  But for Dan to then make his secretary transcribe?  Yeah, he was banking on the fact that she'd spread the word.  

Once the first of however many contempt motions were filed with a transcription or at least reference to what she said on the phone, she should have known.  And she knew the messages on the machine were recorded.  I get being angry over the situation, but yeah she was just really unhinged to not cut it out at that point.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Once the first of however many contempt motions were filed with a transcription or at least reference to what she said on the phone, she should have known.  And she knew the messages on the machine were recorded.  I get being angry over the situation, but yeah she was just really unhinged to not cut it out at that point.

I really get the impression that in Betty's mind, she felt entitled to do whatever she wanted, regardless of the consequence. 

[DanaK]

Betty was one of many women who were of a time where they were dependent on the man in the marriage and had no work history of their own. She and Dan had also made it into the rich people's club and she was so used to a certain lifestyle that she couldn't give it up. But she was clearly mentally ill or on the verge that she went over the top in either trying to keep her marriage together or sticking it to Dan and Linda. Dan was just as bad with his vengefulness in not giving Betty the money or understanding she deserved. Like many posters have said, they were both bad, bad people and the separation and divorce brought out the worst in them. Linda should have permanently headed for the hills instead of getting entangled in that mess

I kind of wonder what would have finally happened in this ongoing fight if Betty hadn't ended it with killing Dan and Linda. They probably would be fighting to this day

[poeticlicensed]

3 hours ago, Sterling said:

These days, we've all become so much more careful about putting anything in writing that can be used against us, but those voice mails....harassing, vulgar, obscenities

I know, seriously. I've heard a couple of attorneys that I know remark that email and text messages  and messaging apps are a gift to the legal system, as they can serve as evidence, eliminating the he said/she said that happens so often. That's why everyone should take a deep breath before hitting reply and saying something that you will regret later. Now that I am working virtually 100% and comfortable using all kinds of technology, I often remind myself not to write nasty grams, even in private forums and rooms online at work, because it's all available for scrutiny by the employer. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by poeticlicensed

[Haley17]

54 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

I know, seriously. I've heard a couple of attorneys that I know remark that email and text messages  and messaging apps are a gift to the legal system, as they can serve as evidence, eliminating the he said/she said that happens so often. That's why everyone should take a deep breath before hitting reply and saying something that you will regret later.

Absolutely. I tell clients that before they hit "send" they should picture themselves reading their text/e-mail/letter out loud in trial. Still want to send it? Fine. The problem with Betty is that I don't think she could ever internalize this kind of advice. Not super uncommon and generally does not end well. 

[cinsays]

3 hours ago, DanaK said:

Betty was one of many women who were of a time where they were dependent on the man in the marriage and had no work history of their own. 

Well, she and I are the same age and I never felt I should not have a job and most of the people I knew then felt the same. It certainly wasn't unusual.

 

[geauxaway]

I’m finally getting around to watching this episode (been a long and busy week).

Betty really has a license plate that said LOADEMUP?   I mean, it had to have been real there is no other reason they would have included that detail.  
 

Why was Betty only getting the boys for Easter?  Why were they divided up?

Edited June 26, 2020 by geauxaway

[lovesnark]

1 hour ago, geauxaway said:

I’m finally getting around to watching this episode (been a long and busy week).

Betty really has a license plate that said LOADEMUP?   I mean, it had to have been real there is no other reason they would have included that detail.  
 

Why was Betty only getting the boys for Easter?  Why were they divided up?

The boys were little and Easter was still a big deal to them. Especially the way Betty did everything over the top. The girls were teenagers, the oldest was a senior in high school by then, they were more interested in hanging with their friends. It's heartbreaking that during the whole shitshow of Dan and Betty's war, the boys wanted to live with her and they begged her to get herself together every time they talked to her.

[AZChristian]

7 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

I know, seriously. I've heard a couple of attorneys that I know remark that email and text messages  and messaging apps are a gift to the legal system, as they can serve as evidence, eliminating the he said/she said that happens so often. That's why everyone should take a deep breath before hitting reply and saying something that you will regret later. 

To quote Judge Marilyn Milian from The People's Court:  "Say it, forget it.  Write it, regret it."

[divsc]

8 hours ago, geauxaway said:

I’m finally getting around to watching this episode (been a long and busy week).

Betty really has a license plate that said LOADEMUP?   I mean, it had to have been real there is no other reason they would have included that detail.  
 

Why was Betty only getting the boys for Easter?  Why were they divided up?

She really did... a Chevy Suburban with license plates that read LODEMUP

[Christina]

I just watched the portion of the show that I missed when my electric went out, and while watching the telephone call with the son, I was struck by how well he nailed his part. It then made me a bit sick and I hope that they just worked with him on his lines and he never saw or heard the Betty part of the script. Amanda Peet shouldn't have had to read and hear it, either, but Betty said it and it shouldn't have been ignored. As a viewer it was hurtful and angering to hear. 

Hope they got that kid a huge ice cream sundae and video game time to decompress. (There is actually a study about how certain video games can help keep a PTSD situation from forming, if played within a certain time after the triggering event.)

[3girlsforus]

21 hours ago, DanaK said:

 

I kind of wonder what would have finally happened in this ongoing fight if Betty hadn't ended it with killing Dan and Linda. They probably would be fighting to this day

I think it would have gone on forever too. They both thrived on the drama. I bet there would have been reconciliations along the way followed by more explosive breaks up. I suspect if Betty ever started building a new life and moving on, Dan would turn on the charm and give her hope. She would come running back. And when Dan would inevitably move from wife to wife, Betty would take each marriage failure as a sign he really wanted her. But when he didn’t, the cycle would start over again. These two were toxic. 

[Starlight925]

2 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

I think it would have gone on forever too. They both thrived on the drama. I bet there would have been reconciliations along the way followed by more explosive breaks up. I suspect if Betty ever started building a new life and moving on, Dan would turn on the charm and give her hope. She would come running back. And when Dan would inevitably move from wife to wife, Betty would take each marriage failure as a sign he really wanted her. But when he didn’t, the cycle would start over again. These two were toxic. 

Agreed, especially the bolded part.

Dan's marriage to Linda never would have lasted, as he's a true narcissist.  A narcissist's cycle is:  Idealize, Devalue, Replace, Discard.  He did that with Betty, and he was on his way with Linda.

Another hallmark of narcissists is Love Bombing.  They shower with love, affection, gifts, professions of love very early on, and that they won't give up on that person until they relent.  Again, he did this with both women.  Then, when the women are comfortable, happy, and fulfilled, he starts the Devalue stage, ultimately finding someone else.

I believe these patterns would have repeated for decades with yes, some Dan/Betty reconciliations/blow-ups along the way.

A friend just told me she's dating her ex-husband now.  The one who threw her up against the wall when she used the "wrong" wash cycle.  Yikes.  So yeah, unfortunately, these patterns get so ingrained.

[geauxaway]

9 hours ago, divsc said:

She really did... a Chevy Suburban with license plates that read LODEMUP

I noticed later on in the episode Dan had a vanity plate, too.  But I couldn’t figure out what it meant.  DTBILL?  Or maybe OTBILL?  It was obviously about money and I’m usually good at figuring these things out, but his has me stumped.  

[AZChristian]

10 minutes ago, geauxaway said:

I noticed later on in the episode Dan had a vanity plate, too.  But I couldn’t figure out what it meant.  DTBILL?  Or maybe OTBILL?  It was obviously about money and I’m usually good at figuring these things out, but his has me stumped.  

Maybe it's "On the bill" . . . as in, this car is being paid for by putting my personal expenses "on the bill" for my clients.

[txhorns79]

5 hours ago, Sterling said:

Dan's marriage to Linda never would have lasted, as he's a true narcissist.  A narcissist's cycle is:  Idealize, Devalue, Replace, Discard.  He did that with Betty, and he was on his way with Linda.

I presume it wouldn't have lasted because I personally think it would be very hard to maintain a marriage that began as an affair.  

 

11 hours ago, Christina said:

Hope they got that kid a huge ice cream sundae and video game time to decompress. (There is actually a study about how certain video games can help keep a PTSD situation from forming, if played within a certain time after the triggering event.)

If I remember right, this is the same kid who played one of Nicole Kidman's twins on Big Little Lies.  I'm sure he's well versed in understanding the difference between acting and reality.   

[DangerousMinds]

49 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I presume it wouldn't have lasted because I personally think it would be very hard to maintain a marriage that began as an affair.  

 

If I remember right, this is the same kid who played one of Nicole Kidman's twins on Big Little Lies.  I'm sure he's well versed in understanding the difference between acting and reality.   

Some marriages that begin as affairs do survive, but I have my doubts that this one would have.

[SuzieQ]

What about Dan practically having sex with Linda in front of his kids??  Nothing more nauseating than having to have it rubbed in your face that your parents or kids are doing it.  😂

[Annber03]

9 hours ago, Sterling said:

Another hallmark of narcissists is Love Bombing.  They shower with love, affection, gifts, professions of love very early on, and that they won't give up on that person until they relent.  Again, he did this with both women.  Then, when the women are comfortable, happy, and fulfilled, he starts the Devalue stage, ultimately finding someone else.

Yeah, I'm always instantly wary of someone who starts going super overboard with the gifts and whatnot right after they begin dating someone. And the gifts are always so generic, too-jewelry and flowers and even fancy cars and whatnot. It's never gifts that are tailored to what the woman would actually like, it's what the guy thinks all women naturally like, and it's an excuse for him to show off how much money he has more than anything else (or, in some cases, claims to have, as a lot of these guys can also get some of those fancy items through shady, if not outright illegal, means, too). 

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

What about Dan practically having sex with Linda in front of his kids??  Nothing more nauseating than having to have it rubbed in your face that your parents or kids are doing it. 

I think that was a fantasy sequence.  It was Betty who was imagining that was what was happening, but it didn't actually happen.

[SuzieQ]

5 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think that was a fantasy sequence.  It was Betty who was imagining that was what was happening, but it didn't actually happen.

Oh, thanks!  I was playing on my phone when I was watching, so I must have looked away for a sec.  When I looked again I was ready to retch!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 6/27/2020 at 6:54 AM, geauxaway said:

I noticed later on in the episode Dan had a vanity plate, too.  But I couldn’t figure out what it meant.  DTBILL?  Or maybe OTBILL?  It was obviously about money and I’m usually good at figuring these things out, but his has me stumped.  

It was DTBIII as in Daniel Broderick the third.

[AZChristian]

4 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It was DTBIII as in Daniel Broderick the third.

You are absolutely RIGHT!  NOW I remember seeing it and reading it that way, but had already forgotten.

I'm 73.  I forget LOTS of stuff that I saw last week.  However, I can tell you great details of things that happened 60 years ago.

Thanks!

[geauxaway]

17 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It was DTBIII as in Daniel Broderick the third.

Oh DUH!!! 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️   
 

I kept thinking Doctor Bill (due to his malpractice practice), but that would have been DR not DT and it was driving me cray!  Thanks for the clarity.  🤣

[ElectricBoogaloo]

22 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I'm 73.  I forget LOTS of stuff that I saw last week.  However, I can tell you great details of things that happened 60 years ago.

I'm the same way. I can still still you my seventh grade boyfriend's phone number (which is useless since he and his parents no longer live in that house) but I can't remember where I put my keys when I got home!

9 minutes ago, geauxaway said:

Oh DUH!!! 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️   
 

I kept thinking Doctor Bill (due to his malpractice practice), but that would have been DR not DT and it was driving me cray!  Thanks for the clarity.  🤣

No worries! I can't tell you how many times I've stopped behind a car with vanity plates while at a red light and could not figure out what it was supposed to mean (only to spend the rest of the day trying to decipher it).

Edited June 28, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Opening scene:

Betty States What She's Unwilling To Do

Dan Has Betty Arrested

Betty Reads Her Position Statement

 

[poeticlicensed]

I saw the LOADEMUP license plate as just another indicator that Betty's entire identity was wrapped up with being a soccer mom. 

[GiandujaPie]

On 6/25/2020 at 6:53 AM, Sterling said:

Perfect sum of this story!

Dan was such an extreme narcissist, that he couldn't allow himself to see anything other than what he wanted:  To watch Betty squirm.  And unfortunately for him, Betty wasn't a shy wallflower girl; she too was a raging narcissist with (probably) BPD and/or other Cluster B stuff going on.

There's a professionally diagnosed narcissist who goes by the pseudonym H.G. Tudor who talks about how narcissists need one thing:  Fuel.  Fuel comes in any form, positive or negative.  Basically, it's simply attention paid to the narcissist.  For Dan, when Betty left hundreds of raging messages, it provided fuel for him.  The more horrid she got, the better it made him feel.  Like, look at all this attention being paid to ME.  Look at all the energy being expended for ME.

Like the way he publicly proposed to Linda, at that bar that all the attorneys frequented.  It was attention-grabbing, plus he knew it would get back to Betty and infuriate her even more.  Positive fuel, plus negative fuel.  A huge narcissistic win for Dan.

Even the cheaper ring he bought for Betty:  Had he bought her the expensive emerald that she wanted, he'd have gotten positive fuel.  But I'm betting he knew her well enough that he'd get even more fuel, albeit negative, if he gifted her with the cheaper ring.  He knew her well enough to know she'd go into a rage, which again, fueled him, as to how much energy she expended.

If Dan really wanted Betty to stop calling, why didn't he ever change to an unlisted number?  Why didn't he make sure his security system was always working?  Heck, with all his money, he & Linda could have moved and built an iron gate.  It was more fun for him to simply wait for Betty's next explosion.

I totally agree with this assessment. Both Betty and Dan thrived on the fuel that their drama gave them. I was in a relationship with a narcissist and it finally ended when I stopped giving him fuel by completely ignoring him. 

[Chaos Theory]

I don’t doubt for a second even if Betty had accepted a large settlement and the got the  kids Dan would have eventually divorced Linda and been on wife three or four by now.   He would have gotten increasingly distant with his kids from his first marriage in favor of whatever newer kids and newer family he was building.  

Edited June 28, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[divsc]

11 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm the same way. I can still still you my seventh grade boyfriend's phone number (which is useless since he and his parents no longer live in that house) but I can't remember where I put my keys when I got home!

No worries! I can't tell you how many times I've stopped behind a car with vanity plates while at a red light and could not figure out what it was supposed to mean (only to spend the rest of the day trying to decipher it).

I saw a license plate on a car a few years ago that seriously said: "MISTRESS" 

It was like...well that's....quite bold....

[chlban]

On 6/26/2020 at 8:33 AM, DanaK said:

Betty was one of many women who were of a time where they were dependent on the man in the marriage and had no work history of their own. She and Dan had also made it into the rich people's club and she was so used to a certain lifestyle that she couldn't give it up. But she was clearly mentally ill or on the verge that she went over the top in either trying to keep her marriage together or sticking it to Dan and Linda. Dan was just as bad with his vengefulness in not giving Betty the money or understanding she deserved. Like many posters have said, they were both bad, bad people and the separation and divorce brought out the worst in them. Linda should have permanently headed for the hills instead of getting entangled in that mess

I kind of wonder what would have finally happened in this ongoing fight if Betty hadn't ended it with killing Dan and Linda. They probably would be fighting to this day

Betty had a degree and worked as a schoolteacher right after her marriage, so she was not without skills. Granted her skills were not going to bring in Dan level income but, had she not given him the children, she would have received significant child support. She would have been far better off than most women after divorce. As for where they would be, IMO, Dan and Linda would never have made it long term and would have probably had a couple of kids and then ended up divorced. I married a man with 2 kids and I didn't break up his marriage, but the kids still saw me as the reason their parents would never get back together and it was tough. His Ex and I actually became friends, and his son, the youngest, came around, but his daughter never really liked me and, honestly, the feeling was mutual. Add to that their own children, which would take all of Linda's focus off Dan, and I suspect there would be another office assistant somewhere down the line. Just my opinion, of course. 

 

[chlban]

On 6/27/2020 at 1:29 PM, SuzieQ said:

What about Dan practically having sex with Linda in front of his kids??  Nothing more nauseating than having to have it rubbed in your face that your parents or kids are doing it.  😂

There is no evidence that happened. None of the kids ever testified to that. Betty made a lot of stuff up. The book talks about how frustrating her lies were to her attorney's, both in the divorce and the criminal trial. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

I almost want to feel sorry for Betty since she was so clearly mentally ill. The way Dan kept provoking her and then punishing her for her reactions was horrid to watch. I also hated how he was abusing his secretary by making her transcribe all those vicious voicemails. It was as if he took pleasure in her discomfort. (And lol at the comment upthread about his apparently not paying his secretary enough to have more than one outfit.)

It seemed to me like Betty didn't really want custody of her kids. I wonder if at some subconscious level she knew she wasn't psychologically able to be responsible for them on her own.

Sounded to me like Linda didn't much want to deal with the kids either. Or she didn't want to risk coming between them and Dan.

How sad for the kid having to try to rationalize with Betty. But did Dan set up that conversation so he could record it? A lot of what the boy was saying seemed like it had been fed to him by an adult. Dan was diabolical at putting his children's mental health in play just so he could defeat Betty.

Ugh, I think if there was ever somebody who needed killing it was Dan Broderick. It's as if he wasn't going to be satisfied until he destroyed Betty. She just beat him to the punch. (Though I doubt he would've killed her. Eventually driving her into a long prison sentence probably would've sufficed in his warped mind.)

[Elizzikra]

On 6/24/2020 at 2:09 PM, lovesnark said:

This. Betty had more than one attorney that could have secured a great settlement for her and the kids, but she expected them to work for free. She refused to listen to anyone who told her she'd most likely be awarded all of her attorney fees when the settlement was done. The attorney portrayed in last night's episode was doing a really good job for Betty and was digging into Dan's financials. If Betty had agreed to the offer of funding her attorney by selling the property in Colorado, it would have worked in her favor.  Instead, she accused her lawyer of conspiring with Dan. Her paranoia was really taking over, along for the ride with hatred and rage. 

After reading Stumbo's book, I've wondered if Betty's refusal to even entertain the idea of paying an attorney was partially because she had never had to manage any of the everyday household bills. Dan took care of all things financial and Betty had never even had a checking account, let alone ever written a check to the electric company or the mortgage company.  She used credit cards to buy what she wanted and had a $4000 a month 'allowance' for things like groceries and whatnot. It's like the whole concept of managing  money and paying bills was something she just couldn't grasp, so she ignored it.

 

 

 

I don’t think that was the case. When they were poor I think she was very aware of what things cost and how the finances were managed. It was when they became rich that Dan took over and I think it was as much about hiding assets from Betty (and hiding spending on Linda) as it was keeping Betty from having to worry her poor little head about money. Betty’s issue with attorney’s fees was that she didn’t want the divorce and she didn’t pay for things she didn’t want - she wanted Dan to pay her fees upfront.

I have always thought Betty was Dan’s first, but not last, ex-wife. Pretty, young wives were a status symbol for Dan and I think he would have been looking to trade up from Linda after 15 or so years. People say Dan and Linda loved each other and I’m sure they did but I think Dan’s version of love was much more pragmatic than a traditional one. Once she was a little older, a little less new and shiny, he would have been onto the next wife. 

I’ll admit to having an almost obsessive curiosity about people who cheat and their affair partners. I suppose I sort of understand people who cheat, although I don’t condone it. Really, if you are unhappy in your relationship, get out and find a new partner. Why break your vows - your word, which is supposed to mean something - and hurt someone that you loved (at least at one time). But what I understand less is someone who is willing to cheat with you. No, that person didn’t vows (Linda, in this case). But she knew Dan was married and had children. How do you look at that and say “my desire to have a sexual relationship with this man is more important than someone’s marriage and the parenting of their children?” How do you say “I don’t care who gets hurt, I’m going to have sex with this man.” Ok - say there are feelings there and you think this could be some great love story - sure it would be shame for that never to come to pass. Then tell married guy to get out of his marriage and then come find you and explore your great passion. If it’s really love, it will still be love in six months or a year or whenever once you are separated. 

And honestly, if you are the mistress who becomes the next wife, do you really think that what you have with the cheater is so much better and more special and stronger than what he had with the prior partner? That you are really so great and fantastic that he would never do TO you what he just finished doing WITH you? You have to have a pretty full steam of self confidence to think that it won’t happen to you. I knew of a guy once who came home to his pregnant wife (in her 8th month of a high risk, sought after pregnancy, in which he was the father) and announced that he was leaving her because he was having an affair and wanted to be with his mistress. he proceeded to throw her out of their house and move the mistress in. He later married the mistress. All I could wonder was how mistress wakes up every day without asking “is this the day he comes home to end our marriage?” Because she was no prettier, smarter, harder working, better educated, more caring or compassionate, kinder or anything else than Wife 1. But she jumped into marriage and having kids with this guy with both feet and not even a hint of shame or embarrassment about having had an affair with a married man while his wife was pregnant and he was still putting up the show of going to every doctor’s appointment and booking a babymoon.

I wish I could do a focus group with cheaters and their mistresses (or cheaters and whatever you call male mistresses). The psychology of it all fascinates me. But I think I probably come off a little judgey... Sufice to say that had Linda lived, I would hope she was socking away a little off the top from her grocery allowance each month. She was going to need it when Dan moved on to pretty young thing 3.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Pretty, young wives were a status symbol for Dan and I think he would have been looking to trade up from Linda after 15 or so years.

I doubt it would've taken 15 years. In CA Dan had a natural breeding ground for replacements and he had the kind of personality that always wanted the newest, flashiest thing. Ditto comments upthread, I wonder how comfortable Linda would've remained in that marriage knowing that he could toss her aside the same way he did Betty. And as she could've seen with Betty, having kids with Dan would've been no guarantee of long-term security.

[Elizzikra]

8 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I doubt it would've taken 15 years. In CA Dan had a natural breeding ground for replacements and he had the kind of personality that always wanted the newest, flashiest thing. Ditto comments upthread, I wonder how comfortable Linda would've remained in that marriage knowing that he could toss her aside the same way he did Betty. And as she could've seen with Betty, having kids with Dan would've been no guarantee of long-term security.

Yeah but I think somehow Linda probably managed to believe, at least short term, that she was different and special enough that Dan would never have treated her the way he treated Betty. I think if anything, Dan would have given Linda even less in a divorce - he certainly wouldn't have treated her any better.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Dan would have given Linda even less in a divorce - he certainly wouldn't have treated her any better.

For sure. He likely wouldn't have stayed with Linda half as long as he did with Betty so in his devious mind Linda would've "earned" less of a settlement. Thing is though, I imagine Linda would've had the sense to get her own shark divorce attorney, especially after she saw what happened to Betty. Dan would've had to come up with a new bag of tricks for Linda but I bet he at least would've figured out a way to stash a bundle of assets offshore that couldn't easily be found. Wonder if he had Linda sign a prenup?

Edited July 10, 2020 by Joimiaroxeu

[Elizzikra]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

For sure. He likely wouldn't have stayed with Linda half as long as he did with Betty so in his devious mind Linda would've "earned" less of a settlement. Thing is though, I imagine Linda would've had the sense to get her own shark divorce attorney, especially after she saw what happened to Betty. Dan would've had to come up with a new bad of tricks for Linda but I bet he at least would've figured out a way to stash a bundle of assets offshore that couldn't easily be found. Wonder if he had Linda sign a prenup?

That is an excellent question. It’s hard to imagine a smart, wealthy lawyer like Dan wouldn’t have thought of a prenup and it sounds like Linda would have signed anything he wanted to finally become Mrs. Broderick.

[chocolatine]

But isn't a prenup only to protect assets acquired before the marriage? My understanding is that in community property states everything acquired during a marriage is to be divided equitably in a divorce. I'm not sure how interest/dividends/appreciation earned on premarital assets during the marriage is handled - the prenup may also cover that - but Dan would have still earned plenty during the marriage if he continued practicing law.

[lovesnark]

13 hours ago, chocolatine said:

But isn't a prenup only to protect assets acquired before the marriage? My understanding is that in community property states everything acquired during a marriage is to be divided equitably in a divorce. I'm not sure how interest/dividends/appreciation earned on premarital assets during the marriage is handled - the prenup may also cover that - but Dan would have still earned plenty during the marriage if he continued practicing law.

Not always. Some prenups have a payout schedule that doesn't include community property acquired while married. Common in marriages of a much younger woman/man marrying someone older and rich. If the spouse stays for X number of years, they agree to accept a certain amount if they were to divorce. Often, the longer the marriage lasts, the higher the payout in a divorce.

A longtime friend of my dad's married a much younger woman after he was widowed. This was in the 80's and he was pretty well off. He had his attorney write a prenup structured in a way that for every 5 years they were married, her payout would increase by $50k. If she left him before 5 years of marriage, she agreed to accept $10k and nothing more. Surprisingly, the marriage lasted until he died and she inherited around $2 million of his estate. The rest went to charities he'd been supporting for years.

[Elizzikra]

1 hour ago, lovesnark said:

Not always. Some prenups have a payout schedule that doesn't include community property acquired while married. Common in marriages of a much younger woman/man marrying someone older and rich. If the spouse stays for X number of years, they agree to accept a certain amount if they were to divorce. Often, the longer the marriage lasts, the higher the payout in a divorce.

A longtime friend of my dad's married a much younger woman after he was widowed. This was in the 80's and he was pretty well off. He had his attorney write a prenup structured in a way that for every 5 years they were married, her payout would increase by $50k. If she left him before 5 years of marriage, she agreed to accept $10k and nothing more. Surprisingly, the marriage lasted until he died and she inherited around $2 million of his estate. The rest went to charities he'd been supporting for years.

My husband and I have a prenup. He is seven years older than I am. We have the prenup because we were older when we got married, each brought assets into the marriage and he has a daughter (minor age). It does cover the assets each of us brought into the marriage but it also covers division of property we accrue during the marriage but with an eye toward assets going toward his daughter rather than reverting to me as would often be the case without the prenup. In other words, it protects his daughter's inheritance but also addresses our shared home. 

All of which makes it sound like we have more money than we do. We're not wealthy - but when one or both spouses have children, it can complicate things.

[Maurina]

On 6/27/2020 at 2:33 PM, txhorns79 said:

I presume it wouldn't have lasted because I personally think it would be very hard to maintain a marriage that began as an affair.  

 

If I remember right, this is the same kid who played one of Nicole Kidman's twins on Big Little Lies.  I'm sure he's well versed in understanding the difference between acting and reality.   

Yep he's one of the actors who played one of the twins on Big Little Lies, and can we all take a beat to acknowledge how UNBELIEVABLY GOOD that kid was in that scene?  It's extremely rare to see child actors with that kind of realistic acting abilities.  It was absolutely heartbreaking to watch because he made it SO real.

 

[stonehaven]

I may be strange but I am hoping that the woman who transcribed those calls for her boss got a hefty severence after he died...and I bet she still has PTSD from basically doing Dan's dirty work. I raise a glass in salute to her. Other than the kids, I feel sorriest for her as it had to be hard to wonder every day whether the job was really worth it.