S04.E10: Lowkey Lost

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

Quote

Molly takes Andrew to a work function and they struggle to see eye-to-eye. Issa continues to search for happiness and the girls get a distressing call about a friend.

Promo:

Original air date: 6/14/20

Edited June 8, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[DearEvette]

Aw man, the season finale.  I have been enjoying this season soooo much.

[RealReality]

8 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Aw man, the season finale.  I have been enjoying this season soooo much.

Me too!  And it feels like 17 million years between seasons!  This season went so fast!

Edited June 9, 2020 by RealReality

[speedroc]

I enjoyed the episode and loved the season yet even with the extra episodes it still went too fast. Molly got what she deserved but Issa's ending left me very disappointed since I think Lawrence getting the job (and moving) would've been a much better deal breaker rather than a child.

Felt sorry for Tiffany.

Kelli is the best.

I really hope we don't have to wait another one and half/ two years for next season.

[funnygirl]

Was really hoping we'd find out what happened to Latoya. 

Can Issa be all the way done with Lawrence now?

 

[healthnut]

The hell? So are we to assume that both Issa/Lawrence and Molly/Andrew call it quits?

is that’s truly it for Lawrence, then he needs to written off, we don’t need to see Jay Ellis again. Perhaps there’s an off chance he doesn’t take the job because of the baby and stays and he and Issa stay together but I don’t see that happening. 
All I really care about is Issa & Molly repairing their friendship. 
 

ETA: I’m also really disappointed they went the predictable route with Condola getting pregnant. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by healthnut

[Eri]

Andrew being over with Molly was a long time coming so no surprises there. He's right - relationships aren't supposed to be *that* hard. I'm glad he got to let her know two words about herself so she can heed some self-reflection - let it be a teaching moment.

I don't think Issa gives herself enough credit - she has friends, getting a jump start on doing something that makes her happy, making business connections, getting out of her comfort zone a little, wanting more for herself...better she have that than to have taken a chance on an uncertain future with an ex. I don't feel sorry for Lawrence at all - part of adulting is reaping what you sow in life and now he's going to have to mature a lot faster. I'm glad Issa didn't hesitate to tell him that it was too much - nothing to work out after a bombshell like that.

I figured events in Molly and Issa's lives would fall through and everything would culminate and spur a reconciliation of some kind. Even if they do make up, I can't see them having the same dynamic that they once did. The ending would have been more promising if Molly had started with "I'm sorry."

Edited June 15, 2020 by Eri

[Stella]

I was underwhelmed by this episode. 

The Tiffany Postpartum depression would be an interesting storyline but it honestly seemed more about getting Issa and Molly to re-connect. So kind of forced. Postpartum depression would have been a great topic but they didn't address it head-on and I thought it was kind of cheap ploy to move the Issa/Molly plot. I don't really love Tiffany as a character but her dealing with that would have been amazing.

Speaking of cheap ploys - Condola being pregnant - ugh.

I have loved this season for the most part but this finale was a little too neat and contrived.

It surprises me that a lot of people seem to strongly dislike Lawrence. No one is perfect for sure but I think the energy and bond he and Issa have is compelling. 

All in all a great season but honestly I would really love to see Issa branch out even more and find some less narcissistic friends. Maybe next season these 4 ladies will have some amazing breakthroughs though. Hopefully.

[Hera]

I saw Condola's pregnancy coming, but still felt bad for Issa and Lawrence (and Condola, a little bit) when it was revealed. On the other hand, if Issa feels that strongly about it being a dealbreaker, it means there's no reason to move to San Francisco, which we all knew wasn't going to happen anyway. Not sure the show is done with Lawrence, though. He's still friends with Derek (poor Derek and Tiffany) and Chad, and if Condola stays in LA, then he has a reason to be around from time to time.

Also, while this means Nathan might have another chance with Issa, I suspect he might eventually go through what Condola went through with Lawrence: "If your ex hadn't [cheated/gotten someone else pregnant] would you still be together?" And as someone pointed out in last week's episode thread, being in a relationship with someone who only recently got a diagnosis of bipolar disorder and who is therefore only just now figuring out how to manage it seems like it would be challenging.

I thought it was really revealing during Molly's break-up fight with Andrew that she couldn't come up with any reason for them to stay together other than, "We've both put so much time into this and neither of us has ever gotten this far with someone before." She had nothing to say about love or their connection—all she could offer was a sunk cost fallacy.

I wish we had gotten to see Molly and Issa's conversation at the end—I hope we at least get some flashbacks to it next season. After spending the season watching them fall out, I would like to see at least some of the process of them fixing things—specifically, I want to know if Molly gave Issa the apology I think she owes her. And this is probably me being ungenerous, but there's something I find really unpleasant about her calling Issa once she no longer has Andrew. It's hard for me to read it as anything other than, "Now that my boyfriend has gotten tired of my toxicity and ended things, I'm going to stop being such a bitch to you so that I am not completely alone." I realize the other way to read it is that Andrew ending things was a wake-up call to Molly that the problem was her all along, but I need to see that. After this season, I can't give Molly the benefit of the doubt.

[heavysnaxx]

Well, in the immortal words of Florida Evans: "Damn DAMN DAMN DAMN!"

I did not like a lot of the episode. The Tiffani storyline was rushed and way too partial - honestly, do I really care about Tiff? No, I don't because the show hasn't invested in her as a character - I was deprived of seeing Molly the moment she was actually dumped, and Condola's pregnancy got used like a monster for a jump-scare in a cheesy haunted house.

Let me repeat: There was no scene of Andrew walking out on Molly that I could replay over and over.

I even had a piece of cake saved to eat during this episode, I was so looking forward to the dumpage. The cake was good! But it could have been so much better, SHOW.

I'm sorry, I don't want to see Issa being friends with Molly. Nope. Prefer to see her hangin' with a slowly ballooning Condola. Molly has not been a standard-issue friend with growing pains. She's been cruel and sabotaging. I hate the message that people - especially women - are somehow wrong to end a friendship of many years. The weird thing was that the writers don't seem to have listened to their own character. Andrew pointed out to Molly that the simple fact they've sunk time into their relationship wasn't reason enough to continue it.

...I still can't believe they went there with Lawrence and Condola. I feel for him. Birth control fails. It really doesn't mean either of them messed up. I hope Issa - once (or if) she gets over the shock - gets back to seeing the we'll-make-it-work mindset as an option. I don't get any vibe between Lawrence and Condola but it's easy to understand that Issa would wonder. DAMN!

Edited June 15, 2020 by heavysnaxx

[qtpye]

Loved the series and it helped me get through the Rona and the rest of the real world mess going on right now.

That being said, disappointed in a couple of things this episode:

1. Wish the finale was at least an hour.

2. All that time wasted on Tiffany. Amanda Seales can stay lost. I had two babies, full time job, no friends or family around, and a husband who was either working long shifts or sleeping. You just can’t disappear yourself like that.

3. Of course Molly only gets humility when Andrew dumps her. I wish Issa had not gone to the Kenyan restaurant to meet her, but I get it, they need each other.

4. HATE that the C was pregnant rumors were true. I do hope we are done with Lawrence.

I am sad that I am going to have to wait forever for new episodes. Issa R is one of the most talented writers I have ever come across.

[qtpye]

On 6/15/2020 at 12:05 AM, heavysnaxx said:

Well, in the immortal words of Florida Evans: "Damn DAMN DAMN DAMN!"

I did not like a lot of the episode. The Tiffani storyline was rushed and way too partial - honestly, do I really care about Tiff? No, I don't because the show has invested in her as a character - I was deprived of seeing Molly the moment she was actually dumped, and Condola's pregnancy got used like a monster for a jump-scare in a cheesy haunted house.

Let me repeat: There was no scene of Andrew walking out on Molly that I could replay over and over.

I even had a piece of cake saved to eat during this episode, I was so looking forward to the dumpage. It was good! But it could have been so much better, SHOW.

I'm sorry, I don't want to see Issa being friends with Molly. Nope. Prefer to see her hangin' with a slowly ballooning Condola. Molly has not been a standard-issue friend with growing pains. She's been cruel and sabotaging. I hate the message that people - especially women - are somehow wrong to end a friendship of many years. The weird thing was that the writers don't seem to have listened to their own character. Andrew pointed out to Molly that the simple fact they've sunk time into their relationship wasn't reason enough to continue it.

...I still can't believe they went there with Lawrence and Condola. I feel for him. Birth control fails. It really doesn't mean either of them messed up. I hope Issa - once (or if) she gets over the shock - gets back to seeing the we'll-make-it-work mindset as an option. I don't get any vibe between Lawrence and Condola but it's easy to understand that Issa would wonder. DAMN!

Word to this.

It makes it felt like if Andrew never said anything...Molly would still be on her high horse. 
I feel like Issa is too nice to truly make her apologize for the horrible way Molly has been acting all season.

If I was Issa, I would say, “You said we no longer fit as friends so what has changed since then?”

Edited June 17, 2020 by qtpye

[sereion]

I agree that this episode was underwhelming; while I felt bad for Tiffany, I think this should have been a separate episode to fully address her post partum. I just wanted more focus on Molly and Issa repairing their friendship.

I visit other forums, and they called it on Condola's pregnancy...and this is why I did not want Lawrence and Issa back together; she got her hopes up--only for them to be dashed. In fact, I agree with that Lawrence should be written off the show  The ship has finally sailed between the two, and it's time for Issa to move forward. Keep him in San Fran

I knew Andrew would get tired of Molly--and I don't feel bad for her at all. I mean, Karma. 

More Kelly, please.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by sereion

[Amethyst]

That was a disappointing end to the season.  It's good to have a focus on PPD when there's little-to-no mention of it with Black women, but Tiffany is such a non-factor that I was just waiting for that plot to end so we could get moving.  

I know this wasn't their fault, but the stuff with the cop felt tone deaf right now.  And the guy with the "inner Black woman;" WTF was that all about?  That whole scene was ridiculous.

Issa has gone online saying how frustrated she is with people clamoring for longer episodes, and I don't blame her.  But if they wanted to spend the majority of the finale on searching for Tiffany, then the finale should have been extended.  They devoted all that time on Tiffany who we never see, but we didn't get to hear Issa and Molly's conversation in the end?  Bullshit.  A lot of this season has felt like it was building up to something that doesn't happen.

I was over Condola after she flaked on Issa during the final planning of the block party, so not thrilled with the pregnancy.  Cheap writing.  And if Lawrence does go to SF, he'll be coming back often to help Condola with the baby.  Ugh.  Knew Issa should have been done with his ass.  Was ready for Condola and Lawrence to leave.

Saw Andrew and Molly breaking up a mile away.  Dude hung around as long as he could, so I couldn't blame him for finally calling it quits.  That's another conversation we were cheated out of.

[Sheenieb]

10 minutes ago, Hera said:

I find really unpleasant about her calling Issa once she no longer has Andrew. It's hard for me to read it as anything other than, "Now that my boyfriend has gotten tired of my toxicity and ended things, I'm going to stop being such a bitch to you so that I am not completely alone." I realize the other way to read it is that Andrew ending things was a wake-up call to Molly that the problem was her all along, but I need to see that. After this season, I can't give Molly the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah, I'd appreciate clarity on that as well. Since there wasn't a definitive scene of Andrew leaving, I don't know for sure if he dumped her, though part of me hope he didn't since I'd miss seeing Alexander Hodge. I don't even miss the man bun anymore. 

It was very telling when she couldn't even give him a reason for why she wanted to be in the relationship. Molly likes the perks of being in a relationship but she doesn't like the work it takes to keep it going. She doesn't want a partner, she wants a yes man.

Andrew is right that relationships shouldn't be hard. It's one thing to have challenging moments because that's just life, but when you're dealing with bullshit before you even hit the year mark, when you're still supposed to be in the honeymoon phase? Nah, it's not worth it.

Sigh, so Condola really is pregnant. It's a shame that this is going to be the thing that grows Lawrence up. He was still doing that thing with Issa in the beginning that I can't stand. Putting the ball in her court again without saying what he wanted. Well, if he really wants to be with her, he's going to have to step up.

I did feel bad for Condola, though. It's one thing to not be together, but damn, what should be happy news gets that kind of reaction.

[DearEvette]

Welp, the episode title should have been a clue.  I actually liked this episode quite a bit, both as a stand alone and as a cap to the season.  This was a very strong season thematically.

At first I was upset with the way the Tiff story unfolded.  But then the more I thought about it, the more I kinda liked the execution.  I think it was a way punctuate how deeply mired in their own drama Molly and Issa were that they completely missed the signs re: Tiff's PPD even though they were there to see.  And Derek keeping it under wraps an trying to handle it.  If nothing else the storyline gave Kelli some great lines.  And she was great straddling the line of bot funny and panicked very believably.

The minute Issa and Lawrence were making their plans and all happy at the top of the show I knew there was gonna be another shoe dropping.  I am disappointed that it is the Condola is pregnant shoe.  That is too soapy for this show.  instead of this, I would have preferred next season to be about Issa and Lawrence learning long distance is not easy and them slowly pulling apart. I admit I am not a fan of Issa/Lawrence as a couple so that would be a win for me.

I am glad Andrew talked to Molly.  He needed to.  It was a long time coming.  I wonder if he ever got to see the Finding LaToya reunion show?  Or did he get spoiled?  One more thing we can blame on Molly!

I liked the ending, believe it or not.  I was glad to see Molly was the one that reached out and it left so many open ended possibilities and questions that need answer.  I do hope Andrew is still with us next season even if he is not 100% with Molly.

ETA: The writer cameo of the episode was the security guard who Kelli was sure 'seen some things'.

Edited June 15, 2020 by DearEvette

[scrb]

57 minutes ago, healthnut said:

ETA: I’m also really disappointed they went the predictable route with Condola getting pregnant. 

I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt but it does seem like a cliched soap opera move.

But maybe they don't want Issa to be in romantic bliss for most of the show, which is very much about her character finding her way through life and that journey isn't easy for her, though not in a serious way but she stumbles around like everyone does.

So for the time being she's not meant to be happily married or in some solid relationship?

In the Wine Down they made a deal out of wanting to depict postpartum depression, with more subtlety and specifically for a black woman.  But Tiffany have a small appearance in this episode, as most of it was the gang doing detective work to track her down.

I vaguely recall that they laid down some bread crumbs for this plot, since a few episodes ago, she seemed not too particularly preoccupied with her newborn child.  Then in season 3, she expressed feeling left out because she was pregnant and her single friends were doing things she couldn't be a part of.

But most of the lines for supporting characters are meant to deliver laughs, not really a part of their character development.  I think while they're entertaining to watch, most of the supporting characters are little more than delivery vehicles for jokes or to interact with the two main characters.

Lawrence really surprised Molly, dropped a lot of stuff on her.  He's dropped one or two things at a time but he let it all out.

The with Issa's situation with Lawrence, it makes sense that they'd reach out to each other to talk about life shit, again.

Issa Rae the creator of the show noted that at the end of season 2, Issa the character imagined being with Lawrence and them having a baby together.  So the fact that Lawrence was going to be parenting his first child with another woman meant she and Lawrence couldn't share this special thing.

 

A small moment in the show, of course this was before the current unrest about racial relations, particularly the mistreatment of black men especially by police across the country.  But they had a little confrontation which could have become a big thing, at least IRL.  It pitted 4 black adults vs. 2 white witnesses and 2 white cops.  

Obviously they weren't trying to make a big statement out of the scene but it took Molly asking the policemen why they are only listening to the white people, not listening to their side of the story.  If only interactions between black people and police were always resolved without incident.

[qtpye]

13 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

That was a disappointing end to the season.  It's good to have a focus on PPD when there's little-to-no mention of it with Black women, but Tiffany is such a non-factor that I was just waiting for that plot to end so we could get moving.  

I know this wasn't their fault, but the stuff with the cop felt tone deaf right now.  And the guy with the "inner Black woman;" WTF was that all about?  That whole scene was ridiculous.

Issa has gone online saying how frustrated she is with people clamoring for longer episodes, and I don't blame her.  But if they wanted to spend the majority of the finale on searching for Tiffany, then the finale should have been extended.  They devoted all that time on Tiffany who we never see, but we didn't get to hear Issa and Molly's conversation in the end?  Bullshit.  A lot of this season has felt like it was building up to something that doesn't happen.

I was over Condola after she flaked on Issa during the final planning of the block party, so not thrilled with the pregnancy.  Cheap writing.  And if Lawrence does go to SF, he'll be coming back often to help Condola with the baby.  Ugh.  Knew Issa should have been done with his ass.  Was ready for Condola and Lawrence to leave.

Saw Andrew and Molly breaking up a mile away.  Dude hung around as long as he could, so I couldn't blame him for finally calling it quits.  That's another conversation we were cheated out of.

The problem is that Tiffany has really not been given any depth in this show. She is the princess like one that always needs to be perfect. 
Motherhood is hard for a perfectionist. You go from the baddest bitch in the room to shitty hair, ugly clothes stained with whatever comes out of the baby, leaky breasts, and a totally exhausted body.
However, since Tiffany really is not a factor on the show, it really felt like a waste of time. 

Heck, I was more interested in finding LaToya.

[tennisgurl]

Damn it show, TELL ME WHERE LaTOYA IS!!! 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Sigh, when Andrew and Molly started fighting I started feeling sick.

Kelli's not in the habit of being sober on Saturdays. But, here we are. 🙄

Out here touching the bus driver's button. But then he had to go Karen on them. Or whatever the Black male version of a Karen is. (Seriously though, yeah, unfortunate timing on the "joke" of calling the cops on a Black woman for a trivial reason.)

Sunk cost fallacy, Molly. Doesn't look like Andrew buys in on that, at least not anymore.

As long as the show is apparently willing to go melodramatic with plot points, I am now predicting Condola will miscarry. However by then Issa will have moved on, likely back to Nathan.

We didn't actually see Molly and Andrew break up. Maybe there's a chance they didn't. 😐 I can't believe Molly messed that up. Andrew was a prince, though maybe he needs to stop being so enabling with Molly. (And now I'm also mad that we may never find out what the deal was with his troubled sister.)

Quote

I visit other forums,.and they predicted Condola's pregnancy...

Quoting myself to say it was predicted on this forum too:   

On 5/4/2020 at 9:35 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

It would seem Condola and Lawrence have broken up. What are the odds she'll return with a baby on board? There were several pointed remarks when he was at Tiffany and Derek's around the baby and stuff.

 😏

I think the writers telegraphed it weeks ago but it was kind of subtle unless you've seen decades of soap operas pull that move.

[DearEvette]

19 minutes ago, scrb said:

A small moment in the show, of course this was before the current unrest about racial relations, particularly the mistreatment of black men especially by police across the country.  But they had a little confrontation which could have become a big thing, at least IRL.  It pitted 4 black adults vs. 2 white witnesses and 2 white cops.  

Obviously they weren't trying to make a big statement out of the scene but it took Molly asking the policemen why they are only listening to the white people, not listening to their side of the story.  If only interactions between black people and police were always resolved without incident.

I love how the cop said "not me, not today" if only .....

Also that black bus driver was lowkey a Karen.  😂

[rozen]

Spent this whole episode at various levels of jaw dropped! They crammed every dramatic twist possible in this episode. I wish it would have been spread out more throughout the season so it could build up. 

The Tiffany storyline fell flat for me, sorry not sorry. I think it's because Derek and Tiffany's actors are just so...bad? It was obvious where the writing was  going, but neither actor has the range to make their super short scenes leading up to this actually have a large enough impact for this resolution to feel meaningful. Tiffany had her weave out, but she still looked way too cute for a "I'm broke down and tired" scene. I needed Viola Davis in HTGAWM level stripped down and busted looking.

Andrew finally realizes that he and Molly are just going through the motions despite having nothing in common. It was so sad to me that he clearly spends so much time listening to every nuance of her life, to the point where he can nail her colleagues based on descriptions alone, when you know damn well Molly probably doesn't even remember his co-worker's names. 

Next season better start with her profusely apologizing to Issa. It's so gross that Molly is only willing to act like a human being once she's dealt a failure and needs her emotional crutch again. I hate her character at this point and wish Issa would just find new friends. 

Wow, Lawrence. Wow, Condolezza. If Corolla didn't want him to feel trapped, she could have just said nothing and acted like she got IF on her own. I hope Issa dumps him, don't choose every struggle, girl. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by rozen

[Irlandesa]

This season was uneven for me. I think it started off slow.  It started to pick up as Molly and Issa grew apart but this episode felt like a disjointed and rushed ending.

Everyone could feel Andrew and Molly's breakup coming (if they indeed broke up) but I could feel the effort in the scenes if that makes sense.  While Andrew's blowup happening over a small thing might be realistic after holding himself back for so long, narratively it felt anticlimatic. 

And I'm disappointed that they went with a pregnancy for Condola as a way to throw a wrench in Issa and Lawrence's relationship. Condola, who essentially got together with Lawrence to get her groove back after divorcing a man because he was ready for kids and she wasn't, now wants to keep the kid?  Deep down, does she want a kid but not really want a dad? 

Plus, it's good to highlight PPD but I wish that it had happened in the penultimate episode while this one focused more on how Molly and Issa reconcile.  How do they navigate what had happened between them?

I felt that the season would end with both women single and commiserating over that.  Sure enough....

2 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I think the writers telegraphed it weeks ago but it was kind of subtle unless you've seen decades of soap operas pull that move.

Quoted for truth. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Irlandesa

[Adgirl]

Quote

I was deprived of seeing Molly the moment she was actually dumped

I don't think Andrew and Molly broke up. I think next season we'll finally see her lawyer skills put to work in pleading her case to Andrew. I want Molly to catch herself before she falls. I still think there's hope for her 🤷‍♀️

Quote

 since Tiffany really is not a factor on the show, it really felt like a waste of time. 

I wonder if Amanda Seales' role was bigger and got cut. They never really cleared up what the rift was between her and the cast.  I also wonder if Issa and Prentiss thought they were leaving enough breadcrumbs throughout the season so we would pick up that Tiff was in trouble. 

I really liked this episode. I liked that they touched on the various aspects of her life and the way she handles things now.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Adgirl
Smoking

[mrsbagnet]

Everyone wondering about Latoya, check out the podcast. The first episode is up.

They crammed several special issues in this season: Tiffany's poor birthing care in the hospital, PPD, missing black girls, mental illness. I can't decide if they were handled well or not.

On 6/15/2020 at 12:03 AM, Hera said:

I thought it was really revealing during Molly's break-up fight with Andrew that she couldn't come up with any reason for them to stay together other than, "We've both put so much time into this and neither of us has ever gotten this far with someone before." She had nothing to say about love or their connection—all she could offer was a sunk cost fallacy.

I was surprised he asked her what she was fighting for. I never thought he saw their relationship as unmeaningful to her. Her using the sink cost fallacy as a rationale was sad. She's basically saying she doesn't want to go thru the effort of starting over and finding someone, as if they should stay together bc it's the easier thing to do.

I'm also not sure that they all the way broke up. They cut the scene before she could answer the question.

Edited June 17, 2020 by mrsbagnet

[p-chaff]

For those of you that need to know if LaToya was found, there is a podcast.

[qtpye]

25 minutes ago, rozen said:

Spent this whole episode at various levels of jaw dropped! They crammed every dramatic twist possible in this episode. I wish it would have been spread out more throughout the season so it could build up. 

The Tiffany storyline fell flat for me, sorry not sorry. I think it's because Derek and Tiffany's actors are just so...bad? It was obvious where the writing was  going, but neither actor has the range to make their super short scenes leading up to this actually have a large enough impact for this resolution to feel meaningful. Tiffany had her weave out, but she still looked way too cute for a "I'm broke down and tired" scene. I needed Viola Davis in HTGAWM level stripped down and busted looking.

Andrew finally realizes that he and Molly are just going through the motions despite having nothing in common. It was so sad to me that he clearly spends so much time listening to every nuance of her life, to the point where he can nail her colleagues based on descriptions alone, when you know damn well Molly probably doesn't even remember his co-worker's names. 

Next season better start with her profusely apologizing to Issa. It's so gross that Molly is only willing to act like a human being once she's dealt a failure and needs her emotional crutch again. I hate her character at this point and wish Issa would just find new friends. 

Wow, Lawrence. Wow, Condolezza. If Corolla didn't want him to feel trapped, she could have just said nothing and acted like she got IF on her own. I hope Issa dumps him, don't choose every struggle, girl. 

Yeah, Tiffany and Derek actors just don’t have the skill to really pull off the emotions needed to make that scene seem real. When Derek was apologizing for not being there enough for Tiffany on the bus, it just came off as real inorganic. It seemed like a list of what a lot of women wished their husbands would say instead of “snap out of it”.

[Hera]

5 minutes ago, mrsbagnet said:

I was surprised he asked her what she was fighting for. I never thought he saw their relationship an unmeaningful to her.

I think the relationship was meaningful to her because it was the longest one she'd ever been in, but I'm not sure Andrew was. Molly liked all the things that being in a relationship with Andrew brought to her life: sex, vacations, a date to work events, someone she could bitch about Issa to, but none of that was specific to Andrew. And when Andrew tried to get Molly to integrate into an important part of his life, his relationship with his brother, she refused. Molly also never showed much interest in Andrew's career (at least, that we saw), except to try to block Issa from interacting with him professionally.

[heavysnaxx]

1 hour ago, Eri said:

Andrew being over with Molly was a long time coming so no surprises there. He's right - relationships aren't supposed to be *that* hard.

1 hour ago, Hera said:

I thought it was really revealing during Molly's break-up fight with Andrew that she couldn't come up with any reason for them to stay together other than, "We've both put so much time into this and neither of us has ever gotten this far with someone before."

48 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Everyone could feel Andrew and Molly's breakup coming (if they indeed broke up) but I could feel the effort in the scenes if that makes sense. 

41 minutes ago, Adgirl said:

I don't think Andrew and Molly broke up. I think next season we'll finally see her lawyer skills put to work in pleading her case to Andrew.

OMG, at least that slice of cake didn't let me down. It never even occurred to me that Andrew might have botched the job.

What I've not been clear on is how long they've even been together. IIRC, Andrew first met Molly when Tiffani was 7 months pregnant, they first-dated a couple of weeks after that, and I've been thinking the baby's now less than 2 months old.

That would make 3-ish months the longest relationship either one has ever had, and they're already talking about how they've been "putting time" in? /face palm/

I mean, even if it's 4 months, it's still supposed to be early days/fun time.

Edited June 15, 2020 by heavysnaxx

[scrb]

The reality is, Issa is at an age where it wouldn't be uncommon to find a large percentage of men she might date already being fathers, already being divorced.

So it shouldn't have to be a dealbreaker but with their past, she has expectations of doing many things together for the first time.

Or is it that for people around their mid 30s, divorcees much less parents carry a stigma as potential mates?

[LibertarianSlut]

3 hours ago, Stella said:

I was underwhelmed by this episode. 

The Tiffany Postpartum depression would be an interesting storyline but it honestly seemed more about getting Issa and Molly to re-connect. So kind of forced. Postpartum depression would have been a great topic but they didn't address it head-on 

I completely agree.  They could have spent the episode on postpartum depression or given us what they gave us tonight—a search for Tiffany—but I don’t think it deserved the finale spot.  If there were a finite number of episodes, they could have taken away Molly’s episode in Mexico.  Molly doesn’t deserve a whole ep IMO.  The shit at the pool could have happened locally in the season in order to achieve a Molly vs. Victor situation. 

I really didn’t like how some of it was a heavy metaphor for the Issa-Molly relationship either.  When they were both comforting Derek on the bus and he was leaning forward, so Issa and Molly were forced to almost-but-not-really make eye contact whilst discussing not everybody being perfect, it felt like an after school special.  

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I am disappointed that it is the Condola is pregnant shoe.  That is too soapy for this show.  instead of this, I would have preferred next season to be about Issa and Lawrence learning long distance is not easy and them slowly pulling apart. I admit I am not a fan of Issa/Lawrence as a couple so that would be a win for me.

Yes, I am not a fan of Issa/Lawrence either, but they could have taken this into a different, less trod upon territory.  Issa and Lawrence have never been cookie cutter, and I just feel like someone turning up pregnant and ruining their perfectly happily ever after relationship was a bit of a cheap ploy.  Let them lose their way in a long distance relationship.  Very real.  I dig it.  

One thing about which I am totally relieved is that it doesn’t appear that Issa is giving Lawrence any chance back into her life whatsoever.  That would have been a fucking disaster.  We all know Lawrence is going to be there for the kid.  Just where would Issa find herself when Lawrence and Condola were at doctors’ appointments and stuff?  Does Issa want to put up with 10 years of having to have quiet sex when Lawrence’s kid is around and walking into their room if he or she has a nightmare?  At least Issa got that part completely right to me. 

I hold the unpopular position of disliking Lawrence and Andrew.  They both remind me of Jim from The Office.  I feel like guys are already more mellow than women in general, and Lawrence and Andrew are ultra-mellow, laid-back types and that doesn’t really fly with me.  I’m a logical person, but I’m also a passionate person, and I would start to feel crazy around a man like that who was supposedly so balanced and collected, always urging compromise when I sometimes want him to be like, “fuck her.  Your friend’s a bitch” or saying “you’re blowing this out of proportion; what’s going on?”  What I don’t like or abide by is a guy like Andrew who is always beating around the bush and leaving little Hansel and Gretel clues that you may be going down the wrong path, but doesn’t say anything until you’ve made a total ass out of yourself.  To me, that’s not a fully present partner.  I like a man who lives out loud, a man who is intense.  That is not to say I would seek out someone who was bipolar, but I like Nathan for Issa in a way I don’t like Lawrence. 

I find that Issa and Molly are passionate women too, and I feel like they should be with passionate guys.  I hope Molly and Andrew broke up.  She really has turned into the biggest bitch, but I feel like Andrew almost gaslit her a little by pretending nothing was wrong and then wanting to break up with her.  There was a little precedent set for it, like Molly not wanting to go to a basketball game with Victor (and I didn’t blame her for that—it was a basketball game.  If it was so important to Andrew that they make up, he could have articulated same and then set up a meeting time for the three or four of them at a coffee shop or something) and they had some clashing viewpoints in this episode, but Andrew wanting to cut and run when Molly is begging him and promising therapy and the moon felt a little cold.  

I also had to wonder about some random peccadillos between Molly and Andrew.  First of all, what is Molly doing answering the phone to Kelli when Andrew is talking heatedly?  I thought that was really rude.  I wish they had changed that scene slightly and had Molly glance at her phone and go, “hold up a sec.  Kelli just texted me 911.  She never does that.”  In addition, where was Andrew to help search for Tiffany?  That was crunch time.  The cops wouldn’t take a report, and it seemed more like an “all hands on deck” situation than a balancing test about privacy, so maybe Andrew is his own covert little asshole if he didn’t offer to help Molly find Tiffany (though we’ll likely never know, since it wasn’t on camera).  

I just don’t think Molly and Issa are suited for Andrew and Lawrence.  I didn’t like Andrew in the beginning of the season either, and then he got better, I guess, and then he got worse again.  I said at the beginning of the season that Andrew should go out with a Hooters waitress, and I think I stand by that.  Lawrence should go back out with a Tasha type, or if anyone remembers Sex and the City, after Steve and Miranda had their son and they were broken up, Steve got this girlfriend Debbie who seemed a little younger, who would just coo at Steve’s baby and not get all up in her head about missing out on This Big Thing the way Issa definitely (rightfully) would. 

For Issa, Nathan isn’t the worst idea to start and see where it goes, and for Molly, after she is single for a long time and figures out her shit, she should date a male lawyer who is intense and passionate about their shared profession.  

I think this season finale was a bit of a cop-out.  I already addressed that I didn’t think the Tiffany thing should have happened in the finale, but I also think we should have gotten the conversations between Molly and Issa and Molly and Andrew.  I felt like we got two unrelated episodes—the Tiffany stuff and then a bunch of scenes to leave it wide open for the creators to go anywhere with the show they’d like next season.  I’m currently doing a Girls rewatch during the quarantine, and I just watched the season three finale, and it left the characters open and questions unanswered in a much more artful way than this did.  There were clues as to where everyone was going, but no hard and fast answers.  

I think we deserved to hear a heartfelt apology from Molly to Issa and perhaps Issa not fully embracing the friendship back right away, but at least we would have known where it was going.  

I think we should have gotten resolution on Andrew and Molly and whether and how they broke up.  I think he was putting her on the spot in asking her what’s worth saving about the relationship.  I would pose the same question to Andrew—if she’s so brittle and uncompromising and exhausting (which she is), why did you wait up to this very moment to break up?  If she had been willing to watch Looking for LaToya with him, would everything have been hunky dory?  That seems like a disingenuous motherfucker to me.  I would rather have Andrew broken up with Molly in a moment of calm reflection, or agreed to keep it open as long as she goes to therapy, and maybe they take a six week break, or cool off period.  Then the audience would have gotten the framework for what to expect next season without giving everything away.  

So, in conclusion, I am against the Molly-Issa and Molly-Andrew conversations happening off camera, against the postpartum depression sort of Hail Mary, against Condola’s pregnancy, and for Issa and Lawrence breaking up.  I sound like sort of a bummer there.  Ok, I am also for finding LaToya.  Hopefully that rounds it out a bit.  

Edited June 15, 2020 by LibertarianSlut
It’s Kelli, not Kelly

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Biggest disappointment: we never found out what happened with LaToya. When Andrew said he was about to watch the reunion special, I was so excited!

Molly's arguments as to why she and Andrew shouldn't break up were weak. This was the longest/most serious relationship either of them have had and she interpreted that as "we put all this time into it so we should stay together." If that were true, I'd still be with my high school boyfriend. Just because you've never been in a relationship this long before doesn't mean you have to stay together. This isn't like a sweat equity house situation where you put in X number of weekends so now you're stuck with each other until you die.

For me, the key thing was what Andrew said: it shouldn't be this hard. People like to perpetuate the myth that relationships are hard work but when you're with the right person, it isn't. I've been with Mr. EB for years (and I don't mean like two years - double digits here) and our relationship is not hard work that requires constant compromise/maintenance/effort. It's easy because we like each other just the way we are and we are compatible. If your relationship is frustrating and hard work and always compromising, maybe you aren't with the right person - especially if you've only been together a few months. You should still be in the honeymoon phase where everything is fun and sexy and easy. If you're already struggling, then why stay?

And I say this all knowing that it means we will be losing the hotness that is Asian Bae from our screens.

When Andrew asked what she was really fighting for, the answer seemed to be that she didn't want to give up the idea of having a boyfriend who goes to work functions, takes you on vacation, etc. She liked the status of having a relationship but as Andrew pointed out, she wanted everything on HER terms and HER timetable.

DAMN IT, why did the show have to give us the pregnant Condola storyline that we all predicted? I understand why Issa was upset but like Lawrence said, it's not like he planned this. He had sex with Condola before he and Issa got back together so there isn't any blame here as far as I'm concerned. Issa is allowed to be upset about the situation but getting mad at Lawrence is counterproductive and useless.

For the record, I know some people IRL who were in a similar situation. They had broken up when she found out she was pregnant. She kept it and they have coparented really well for almost ten years now. Both of them are with other people so there are other coparents and kids involved now and they are all happy. There's another couple I know who were high school sweethearts and in their 20s, they got back in touch online, had a one night stand, and she got pregnant. They never got back together into any kind of romantic relationship but they now have a 12 year old. They've both since married other people and added more kids into the mix but they coparented their kid from the very beginning.

I understand why Issa is concerned but having a kid and an ex in the picture isn't always a terrible thing. Don't get me wrong - it definitely changes things. If Lawrence chooses to be involved in his kid's life, that is a major responsibility and his free time is not going to be 100% his own, which is something that Issa will have to deal with. This will affect her as well, so she's definitely allowed to have a lot of feelings about it.

My biggest issue with both the Condola pregnancy and Tiffany's PPD is that they were used as plot points to force things to happen. Lawrence could have just moved to SF instead of having the pregnancy become this huge issue for Lawrence and Issa to deal with. Tiff's disappearance was fun for a treasure hunt type episode, but squeezing it into the season finale with all of these other plotlines robbed it of the seriousness that it could have had and seemed mainly a way to bring Issa and Molly back together.

[Sparger Springs]

This episode should've been titled Lowkey Bullshit.

[marny]

14 hours ago, scrb said:

The reality is, Issa is at an age where it wouldn't be uncommon to find a large percentage of men she might date already being fathers, already being divorced.

So it shouldn't have to be a dealbreaker but with their past, she has expectations of doing many things together for the first time.

Or is it that for people around their mid 30s, divorcees much less parents carry a stigma as potential mates?

I think there’s a big difference between dating a man who has a child and dating a man who has a currently pregnant ex, even putting aside the history Issa and Lawrence have had together. 

Issa deciding that the baby situation was too much for her was another sign of how much she’s grown and become more self-confident. I can see Issa from a couple seasons ago just swallowing the news and forcing herself to be ok with it. The fact that she knows it’s too much for her to handle and is willing to say so is a big sign of maturity, in my opinion. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by marny

[Eri]

5 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

One thing about which I am totally relieved is that it doesn’t appear that Issa is giving Lawrence any chance back into her life whatsoever.  That would have been a fucking disaster.  We all know Lawrence is going to be there for the kid.  Just where would Issa find herself when Lawrence and Condola were at doctors’ appointments and stuff?  Does Issa want to put up with 10 years of having to have quiet sex when Lawrence’s kid is around and walking into their room if he or she has a nightmare?  At least Issa got that part completely right to me. 

 

19 minutes ago, marny said:

Issa deciding that the baby situation was too much for her was another sign of how much she’s grown and become more self-confident. I can see Issa from a couple seasons ago just swallowing the news and forcing herself to be ok with it. The fact that she knows it’s too much for her to handle and be willing to say so is a big sign of maturity, in my opinion. 

What really bothered me was when Condola broke the news to Lawrence, his first response was "Is the baby mine?" Not a very mature response for a guy who supposedly has it together.  Guess he didn't have the loose ends "wrapped up" after all lol. The show hasn't implied that Condola is the type of person who would want to trap Lawrence since neither was fighting for the relationship to begin with. The timing between their breakup and his reconciliation with Issa is unfortunate but that's life. 

[Empress1]

31 minutes ago, Eri said:

What really bothered me was when Condola broke the news to Lawrence, his first response was "Is the baby mine?" Not a very mature response for a guy who supposedly has it together. 

I don’t think this is an unreasonable question. I’m not sure how long it’s been since he and Condola last slept together but I’m sure it’s been enough time for Condola to have slept with someone else, or several someone elses. You can go on Tinder & have a new sex partner in literally minutes, if you want. It’s not about Condola trapping Lawrence (although he clearly feels trapped - when she said she didn’t want him to feel that way, he looked like “Girl, please”) - she’s got her shit together. Y’all remember her house? It’s about “we haven’t been in each other’s lives in a bit & I don’t know what you’ve been up to.”

I felt sad for Condola even though I don’t particularly like her. She had to know it would be hard to tell someone you’re not with & that you know doesn’t want to be with you that you’re having their baby, but Lawrence was basically like “oh God, no” when he heard the news. That had to sting.

That said, the baby storyline is totally cliche and I don’t like it at all.

Molly 100% would not have called Issa if she were still with Andrew. Also, I can think of a bunch of reasons why Molly would want to be with Andrew, but I can’t really think of reasons why Andrew would want to be with Molly. (I’ve heard a lot of women use the sunk cost fallacy as a reason to stay, particularly those who are approaching or past 30 and want kids. “I don’t have time to start over” is a common refrain.) If you have to talk someone into being with you, it’s over. I really liked looking at Alexander Hodge, though.

 

[Eri]

13 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I don’t think this is an unreasonable question. I’m not sure how long it’s been since he and Condola last slept together but I’m sure it’s been enough time for Condola to have slept with someone else, or several someone elses. You can go on Tinder & have a new sex partner in literally minutes, if you want. It’s not about Condola trapping Lawrence (although he clearly feels trapped - when she said she didn’t want him to feel that way, he looked like “Girl, please”) - she’s got her shit together. Y’all remember her house? It’s about “we haven’t been in each other’s lives in a bit & I don’t know what you’ve been up to.”

I felt sad for Condola even though I don’t particularly like her. She had to know it would be hard to tell someone you’re not with & that you know doesn’t want to be with you that you’re having their baby, but Lawrence was basically like “oh God, no” when he heard the news. That had to sting.

That said, the baby storyline is totally cliche and I don’t like it at all.

You're right - I guess I'm just old fashioned and didn't think that the show would've gone in the baby direction either. Given that Condola has it together already (professionally, financially, etc.) and doesn't necessarily need Lawrence, it felt as though she was trying to soften the blow by giving him the option to be involved or not to make him feel more comfortable about it. His reaction didn't help matters however. It'll be interesting to see how they navigate this in the future season.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Eri

[tennisgurl]

Everyone here really called just about everything that happened in this episode. Condola being pregnant and Tiffany having PPD were seriously on point. I really liked this season in general, but I thought this episode was disappointing. Condola being pregnant seems like such a soap opera cliche, if they wanted to have Lawrence and Issa break up again, they could have made it less contrived, like they decide the long distance thing would be too hard or that their relationship had already run its course, something that was less obviously there just to break them up. 

Contrivance and plot device were good problems in general with the pregnancy and the PPD plots. Having Tiffany dealing with PPD isn't a bad idea, and they have at least kind of hinted at it throughout the season, but Tiffany has been on the back burner as a character for so much of this season, especially the last few weeks with all of the Molly and Issa drama taking center stage, that it seems random now, like there was some other show happening off-screen that we missed. And as much as the show is saying that it wants to talk about this issue and the struggles of black women dealing with PPD, it all seems to exist just to move the plot of other characters along. Tiffany had a freak out due to PPD so that Molly and Issa could be around each other again and start to reconcile, just like Condola got pregnant just so that Issa and Lawrence would break up. You can really see the writers hand here, and its especially unfortunate when they bring a very really issue like PPD into it. 

I am sad that we probably wont be seeing much of Andrew anymore, but his breakup with Molly was basically inevitable. He was right, a relationship shouldn't be this hard, you should be happy in your relationship, not miserable feeling like your constantly in a uphill battle. He was also really not wrong about everything being about Molly, how they have to do everything Molly wants, that she is always looking for reasons to be pissed, and that she never lets shit go. I am glad at least that Molly was the one to reach out to Issa, but I am disappointed that we did not get a huge ass apology from her to Issa about the crappy way she has been acting towards her. Hopefully Andrew leaving her is the wake up call Molly needs to realize she needs to stop being such an ass. 

At least Kelli was on point all episode. "I‘m going with you, I‘m not staying with Gloria, she told me how I‘m gonna die and its on brand!" 

"I‘m not in the habit of being sober on a Saturday, but here we are, Ronald. Here we are." 

Edited June 15, 2020 by tennisgurl

[DearEvette]

3 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

"I`m not in the habit of being sober on a Saturday, but here we are, Ronald. Here we are." 

According to Natasha Rothwell, that line was ad-libbed.  Man, she is just brilliant.  We need more Kelli!

Edited June 15, 2020 by DearEvette

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Eri said:

His reaction didn't help matters however.

Condola probably went through a similar process/questioning period when she found out but she didn't have to do it in front of anyone.

7 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I feel like Andrew almost gaslit her a little by pretending nothing was wrong and then wanting to break up with her.

They've probably only been together for a few months at most.  I think the four seasons of this show have only covered about two years.  No one ever needs an excuse to break up with someone but I think an explanation is less expected so early in the relationship.

And I don't think he pretended like everything is okay. He has brought up issues in the past, only to have Molly dismiss them because his issues don't conform to her perspective. She doesn't apologize; she usually doubles down about why she's "right." I don't think he's a gaslighter if the reason she's not realizing there are issues is because of her self-centeredness.

But I think the last straw wasn't that she was too tired or even that she told him he couldn't watch the LaToya reunion, it was when she acted like incorporating him into her work events was doing him a favor to appease his desire to spend time with her instead of another thing he does for her.

 

[Empress1]

Just now, Irlandesa said:

And I don't think he pretended like everything is okay. He has brought up issues in the past, only to have Molly dismiss them because his issues don't conform to her perspective. She doesn't apologize; she usually doubles down about why she's "right." I don't think he's a gaslighter if the reason she's not realizing there are issues is because of her self-centeredness.

I agree. He was clear that not meeting his brother halfway was a problem for him & her response was to tell him he shouldn’t ask her to do anything she didn’t want to do. That alone is reason enough to dump her, IMO. If it’s this hard when things are good (they’re both employed, financially stable, healthy, & their loved ones are healthy), how will it be when life kicks their asses? 

[Sheenieb]

Quote

9 hours ago, scrb said:

The reality is, Issa is at an age where it wouldn't be uncommon to find a large percentage of men she might date already being fathers, already being divorced.

So it shouldn't have to be a dealbreaker but with their past, she has expectations of doing many things together for the first time.

Or is it that for people around their mid 30s, divorcees much less parents carry a stigma as potential mates?

 

It's most likely about not wanting to deal with baby mama drama. I don't blame her. If you're child-free and now have to amend your schedule to accommodate your partner's child, it's going to be a rough transition. Better to walk now than pretend that you can deal with it. Lawrence and his child are a package deal. 

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

For me, the key thing was what Andrew said: it shouldn't be this hard. People like to perpetuate the myth that relationships are hard work but when you're with the right person, it isn't.

Yup, agreed. If you're walking on eggshells and being the only person who has to compromise, then you're definitely with the wrong person. Relationships should not be hard. If someone is for you, you should not have to deal with stress. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Sheenieb

[tennisgurl]

52 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

He was clear that not meeting his brother halfway was a problem for him & her response was to tell him he shouldn’t ask her to do anything she didn’t want to do.

Yeah, he was pretty clear that he was upset that she refused to even consider taking what seemed like an olive branch his brother was trying to offer last week, but she just doubled down on how much it was Andrew that was in the wrong because he was trying to "get her to do things she doesn't want to do" and then just bulldozed over his issues to move on to the next topic without a second thought. 

It also doesn't help that every time Andrew would bring anything up that was upsetting him, Molly would immediately go on the defensive and try and turn it around on him. When they were on vacation and he hinted that Molly was being too hard on Issa and reminded her maybe she shouldn't shit talk his best friend to him, she immediately got pissed at him. When he told Molly how awkward it was that she blew his brother off, she got pissed at him for daring to ask him to give his brother another chance or just suck it up for his sake. This week, when he brought up her beef with his brother again, we got yet more "how can I be expected to be around someone who was rude?!?" and her immediately getting pissed at him and defensive again. The only time she showed any ability to compromise or didn't meet any push back or disagreement with hostility was when Andrew was about to break up with her, and she was starting to panic that this wasn't going her way. Its not surprising that Andrew wouldn't want to deal with all of that.  

Edited June 15, 2020 by tennisgurl

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't think he pretended like everything is okay. He has brought up issues in the past, only to have Molly dismiss them because his issues don't conform to her perspective. She doesn't apologize; she usually doubles down about why she's "right." I don't think he's a gaslighter if the reason she's not realizing there are issues is because of her self-centeredness.

ITA - Andrew was not gaslighting her. He very calmly brought up issues as they happened throughout their relationship and he did it in a way that was not confrontational and accusing the way Molly usually does it. He has been pretty straightforward whenever they've hit a bump in the road and tried to talk to her about it, but she gets defensive and goes on the attack whenever someone doesn't agree with her or she doesn't get her way. She did the same thing in this episode. She wanted to take a nap after they went to HER work event so she expected him not to watch the LaToya reunion. When he brought up the fact that they basically run on her schedule, she started talking about his brother (which is ridiculous because in that situation, she also did what she wanted, namely skipping the basketball game).

[mrsbagnet]

9 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I hold the unpopular position of disliking Lawrence and Andrew.  They both remind me of Jim from The Office.  I feel like guys are already more mellow than women in general, and Lawrence and Andrew are ultra-mellow, laid-back types and that doesn’t really fly with me.  I’m a logical person, but I’m also a passionate person, and I would start to feel crazy around a man like that who was supposedly so balanced and collected, always urging compromise when I sometimes want him to be like, “fuck her.  Your friend’s a bitch” or saying “you’re blowing this out of proportion; what’s going on?”  What I don’t like or abide by is a guy like Andrew who is always beating around the bush and leaving little Hansel and Gretel clues that you may be going down the wrong path, but doesn’t say anything until you’ve made a total ass out of yourself.  To me, that’s not a fully present partner.  I like a man who lives out loud, a man who is intense.  That is not to say I would seek out someone who was bipolar, but I like Nathan for Issa in a way I don’t like Lawrence. 

I find that Issa and Molly are passionate women too, and I feel like they should be with passionate guys.  I hope Molly and Andrew broke up.  She really has turned into the biggest bitch, but I feel like Andrew almost gaslit her a little by pretending nothing was wrong and then wanting to break up with her.  There was a little precedent set for it, like Molly not wanting to go to a basketball game with Victor (and I didn’t blame her for that—it was a basketball game.  If it was so important to Andrew that they make up, he could have articulated same and then set up a meeting time for the three or four of them at a coffee shop or something) and they had some clashing viewpoints in this episode, but Andrew wanting to cut and run when Molly is begging him and promising therapy and the moon felt a little cold.

I can see this. Andrew could/should have been more direct with Molly from the jump. Letting things fester is not good, and they would have recognized their incompatibility earlier.  Andrew's decision to not say anything overt until the end could have been a calculation on his part. Molly is defensive and self-centered. Would he have gained anything by being more direct with her, other than having huge arguments? Their relationship is new. Arguments aren't worth the trouble that early on. Instead of arguing, he chose to collect information -- to wait and see if her behavior would improve. When it was clear that there was no reasoning with her, he gave up.

Edited June 15, 2020 by mrsbagnet

[mrsbagnet]

21 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

The only time she showed any ability to compromise or didn't meet any push back or disagreement with hostility was when Andrew was about to break up with her, and she was starting to panic that this wasn't going her way. Its not surprising that Andrew wouldn't want to deal with all of that.

Man, she changed her attitude real quick when she realized he was done. Too little, too late. Can you imagine going to couples therapy when you're only a few months in? What for? Go fix yourself, Molly.

[RealReality]

Circle squared. 

Issa back in some mess and Molly destroying a good thing.  

How careful were you really Lawrence, because last time I checked, when used correctly, condoms have like a 96% success rate.  

That situation sucks for everyone involved.  

I know I shouldn't be, but I'm glad Molly reached out and that she and issa are talking again. 

[ElsbethTascioni]

13 hours ago, healthnut said:

ETA: I’m also really disappointed they went the predictable route with Condola getting pregnant. 

This. All day long. I was worried they'd go that route when she was calling him trying to talk, but then I convinced myself that they wouldn't go with such a tired story line. 

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

Condola probably went through a similar process/questioning period when she found out but she didn't have to do it in front of anyone.

They've probably only been together for a few months at most.  I think the four seasons of this show have only covered about two years.  No one ever needs an excuse to break up with someone but I think an explanation is less expected so early in the relationship.

And I don't think he pretended like everything is okay. He has brought up issues in the past, only to have Molly dismiss them because his issues don't conform to her perspective. She doesn't apologize; she usually doubles down about why she's "right." I don't think he's a gaslighter if the reason she's not realizing there are issues is because of her self-centeredness.

But I think the last straw wasn't that she was too tired or even that she told him he couldn't watch the LaToya reunion, it was when she acted like incorporating him into her work events was doing him a favor to appease his desire to spend time with her instead of another thing he does for her.

 

Which is exactly how she acted with issa.  "You see how I'm trying!" text to Andrew.  Molly's presence was a favor to everyone else.  

Watching her try to desperately paddle back with Andrew was painful, but man, that ship had very clearly sailed at that point.  And she had made her bed...because she CLEARLY knew the thing with his brother was a problem and she had done nothing to fix it until it was too late.  

She could have invited them out for dinner on her own terms. 

[tomsmom]

Breakup. Baby. Postpartum. Meh.

WHAT HAPPENED TO LATOYA??!!