S01.E03: Two Boats And A Helicopter

[Tara Ariano]

Undaunted by death threats and diminishing attendance, Reverend Jamison maintains that not all the Departed should be considered heroes, but he's shaken by news that he may lose the church to foreclosure, a startling development that forces him to go to extremes to find the money to save it.

[sjohnson]

Not at all sure I'm going to bother catching this on demand. It's on opposite Falling Skies and of course Falling Skies is more entertaining. 

 

The real question is why this isn't entertaining me? I think part of it is what for me is just a fundamental flaw in the premise. There is a massive proof of the supernatural which by its nature contradicts all previous teachings about the supernatural. The bottom falls out from the secular worldview and existential anomie rules. By definition the event is incomprehensible so the series must be about how these different characters respond, not about the "answers." I really think this is a fair and accurate summary.

 

But as I look around there are lots and lots of people who believe in the supernatural already, without lapsing into existential anomie. Further, my experience and history tell me that when people's religious expectations are refuted, they just rationalize. Most believers live each day without their supernatural beliefs changing anything at all anyhow. As for atheists, I'm no expert, but I'm inclined to think they too would rationalize it, in a different way. My guess is that every scifi story ever printed in a pulp magazine would have its day: ESP, UFOs, teleportation, other dimensions, other time lines. The ingenuity would be marvelous to behold. And I think this is particularly true for those who worry it might happen again. I'm not seeing any of this in any of the people in this show.

 

Further, and worse, some people would (properly I think) see the previous facade of a material universe following natural laws, as a deception. For religious people, the disappearances might be simply the work of the Devil, seeking to mislead by a mockery of the true Rapture. Also, some would still regard something Rapture-like as a vindication against Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism et al. I'm not seeing any of this in any of the people in this show. I think that in the end, the Deceiver is a part of the action. Giving no answers as to the why of His/Her/Its/Their deception is a failure inherent in the premise. Why Something is lying to you just seems to be an inextricable part of how you (audience as vicarious player in the story) react, of the character study the show is superficially about.

 

Further yet, and even worse, given the variety of people, while there most certainly would be those who couldn't get over it, they would react in different ways. Some would just stay in bed. And some would frantically work all the time, trying to bury their fears. Some would promptly chemically treat themselves, bopping along stoned all the time. Some would go on permanent vacation. And some I suppose would turn into mean ass hystericas. The thing about this show is that pretty much only the mean ass hysterics are depicted. That means their not really different characters, just different faces for the same reaction the writers want to impose on you. I note this in itself contradicts the supposed premise. Which I think means this show is actively bad even in its own terms. 

 

I suppose what this is really about is indulging misanthropy in such a fashion that "we" are to think its about people in general, not us, since "we" are with the creators looking down. Perotta is a literary person and disdain for humanity in general is extremely common in those quarters, near as I can tell. Lindelof seems to have been embittered by the criticism of the Lost finale. I guess I'm as susceptible to having my vanity stoked by making everyone else look bad, but barring something more to this show, I'm not sure that's enough.

Edited July 12, 2014 by sjohnson

[Primetimer]

In its third episode, The Leftovers cracks the story of its wayward priest -- but is it enough to en-Rapture Matt?

Read the story

[benteen]

This show was depressing and strange but Christopher Eccleston was outstanding tonight.  I was sorry when it was over.

[Constantinople]

"I won't tell anyone if you won't"

 

What a wit our Reverend is.

 

Aside from that, I was a little disappointed in the episode since there were a few too many cliches for my liking

• the religious figure who questions his faith because of a tragedy that befell a loved one
• gambling one's way out of debt
• the dream sequences
• rushing up to the bank as it's closing or just closed

 

I also thought it was obvious Our Lady of Perpetual Nicotine would be on to purchase the church from the bank, though I don't know what they'd be using it for.  Nothing in the way of a traditional sermon at least.

 

ETA: Perhaps it was a little too early in the series to have one character carry the entire episode.  I believe Father Jamison was in every single scene, and even the police chief wasn't in every scene in the first two episodes.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Constantinople

[lawless]

The scene in the casino was very tense.  Given how grim the show can be, I really didn't know if he would win the money he needed, or lose it at the last minute.  I saw the robbery coming, but not most of the rest of it.  I am intrigued enough by the mystery and interested enough in Kevin Garvey to keep watching, but I often finish the Show unsatisfied.  It's a strange feeling.  To be honest, I am watching more for the supernatural angle than just to watch people struggle.  Maybe that's because the possibility of answers to why the departure happened, or indications that there's still something happening are one of the few ways that the characters' emotional distress can be resolved, and their distress is oppressive.  I wouldn't hit them, but I hate the Guilty Remnant too.  Just bunch of nihilists, it seems, to no purpose.  I mean, I get that their take on the Departure is that this life is meaningless and you might as well quit (I think, but who knows since they don't talk or do anything), but you know what, fuck that.  All things have an explanation, even if we don't know what it is, even if we never find out in our lifetimes, so I do not relate to their attitude or reaction and find them incredibly irritating.  Especially Kevin's wife who abandoned their kids, and joined a cult in their own town -- where they can see her on the reg.  Does she really want her kids to join too?  If not, it was bullshit to treat her family the way she did.  Find some stones, cope, and get your shit together lady. 

 

Arggh.  The show is intriguing, but frustrating.  I hope this is going somewhere.  I hope Kevin's wife leaves the stupid cult.  I frickin' hate cults, they are the worst.

Edited July 14, 2014 by lawless

[Tim Thomason]

I guess I just like Christopher Eccleston, but this is easily the best episode of the three for me.

I guess the GR were probably trailing Jamison (Eccleston) because they wanted the church, but didn't necessarily want to pay the full cost of it (easier to just convert him and have him hand it over along with his worldly possessions). I don't really understand his mission, and understand why it's a punchable offense to many, but I appreciate his conviction, even to the point that he wouldn't back down when offered to keep his church.

He ultimately loses his goal in the end, but at least he has $160,000 to keep him company. Given the dwindling population, it's probably enough to buy a small building and start a new church. Although that begs the question: How does the Episcopal Church hierarchy fit into all this? Doesn't he report to a bishop of some sort? I gather that he owned the church in his name, but couldn't they chip in, and will Father Jamison still have a job at some other Episcopal Church somewhere?

[Kris117]

Perhaps it was a little too early in the series to have one character carry the entire episode.  I believe Father Jamison was in every single scene, and even the police chief wasn't in every scene in the first two episodes.

 

I agree—I wanted to see at least a glimpse of what was happening in other story lines. It may also have been that I wanted to punch him multiple times myself. Great job on Eccleston's part, though. 

 

I can't feel one bit sorry for Father Jamison losing his church, because as obnoxious as the GR is, what Jamison did to his sister was cruel and sinful. And I don't throw that word around lightly. That was all about him, not his faith or his God. I liked her earlier line, "You always do that—tell me upsetting things and then tell me not to be upset." That was a paraphrase, but he is more into controlling what the reaction to the 14th should be than even the GR are.  And who gives a good goddamn about whether the disappeared people weren't perfect? Yes, there have been memorials, but I don't see any indication that the general public has turned all of the disappeared into saints. 

 

While Jamison's wife hit her head on the steering wheel, he may have made her situation worse by moving her the way he did. I can understand that his first reaction would be to get her out, but the car wasn't on fire or anything. 

[valjane]

I liked this episode a lot more than I did the first two. Jamison's character is compelling even if he is frustrating. I was yelling at the Tv as he was walking across the parking lot of the casino to his car. I knew that wouldn't end well at all. (And wouldn't there be video cameras that captured his assault on the would-be robber? Will there be ramifications?)

Even though we didn't see much of the other characters in this episode, I kind of found that refreshing. I needed a break from the mania of Theroux's Chief and the annoying subplot of his son and the huggy guy.

I did think this was a downer of an episode overall, though. Very bleak.

[Karelian]

It is awesome and majestic how badly Lindelof is screwing up this series. Watching this train wreck unfold is much more interesting than watching competently run shows. Doing an episode focusing on a just one, marginal, depressing character so soon is a perfect example of how Lindelof overplays his hand. His faith in shaky and chaotic material is totally outsized. He thinks he already has an audience hooked and can afford an indolent detour like this.

This might be the most watchable terribly made series since that aliens in swampland thing on NBC six years ago. The one with the guy who married that country singer. That was so bad I could not miss an episode - It had a sea alien in a child's bath tub if think.

[ottoDbusdriver]

While Jamison's wife hit her head on the steering wheel, he may have made her situation worse by moving her the way he did. I can understand that his first reaction would be to get her out, but the car wasn't on fire or anything.

 

Jamison's wife was played by Janel Moloney -- she's still awesome. Loved her as Donna Moss on the 'West Wing'.

[Milaxx]

WHAT. THE. HELL. WAS. THAT?! This show should be renamed Pretentious Theater. Eccleston's American accent sucked to the point of distraction. Since absolutely no one in this show has a happy life of any sort you knew he was losing that church from day one. watching him run around frantic while the show gave us yet more symbolism was just not entertaining. 

 

I think this show is getting shelved to DVR status for me. I try and give new shows 3 -5 eps to gain ground before signing off. This one is rapidly losing my interest.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Milaxx

[shapeshifter]

In its third episode, The Leftovers cracks the story of its wayward priest -- but is it enough to en-Rapture Matt? http://www.previously.tv/the-leftovers/the-number-of-the-priest

...I'm no fan of the grim and humorless. But there's a lot more nuance to this show....

Yeah, but this episode was even grimmer, and not in a good way.

This show was depressing and strange but Christopher Eccleston was outstanding tonight. I was sorry when it was over.

Yes, he was, but no, I wasn't.

"I won't tell anyone if you won't"

What a wit our Reverend is.

Indeed.

So the message to him was that he had all the luck he needed, he just has misplaced sympathy for the GR?

And also: It's not good to leave financial planning to the last minute, including prayers for Divine inspiration regarding financial planning.

Edited July 14, 2014 by shapeshifter

[GaT]

That was booooorrrring, & are they ever going to tell us what the hell the GR are? Why would they want the church? They have to start explaining things instead of giving us crap episodes like this.

[90PercentGravity]

So, I actually liked it. I thought it was pretty compelling. It was obvious the GR were the ones buying the church, though.

 

I thought that was Jean-Ralphio beating the priest down, but apparently not.

 

It bugged me that he wasn't more concerned about his wife. Did he just assume the unpaid woman was still there taking care of her?

[thuganomics85]

Well, that was... interesting.  The Jamison character was barely in the first two episodes, and suddenly he's here in this episode, and practically carrying the entire thing.  Definitely reminded me of Lost, and how episodes would be devoted to a certain character or characters each episode.  But, I'm pretty sure a lof the "regulars", weren't even in this one.

 

Still, I thought Christopher Eccleston did a great job, and while the Jamison character can be very unlikable a lot of times (not to mention, dumb), I do find the idea of his character interesting.  During his coma or whatever it was, what was up with him dreaming about having sex with Laurie?  Then again, I'm not quite sure what his relationship was to both her and Sheriff Dennis.

 

The Guilty Remnant though, is not impressing me.  Getting really tired of their white clothes, their smoking, and their silence.  Being "mysterious" alone, isn't enough to make them interesting.  The good news for them is they are competing against the Cult of Magical Hugs, which is way more ridiculous.  But, I could almost do away with both of them.

[Guest]

It's not good to leave financial planning to the last minute, including prayers for Divine inspiration regarding financial planning.

I was waiting to see if the gambling thing didn't pay out, whether he would pimp out his wife to a billionaire for the night.

I still don't care about a single character on this show or any of its countless "mysteries." Last night's highlight was the two-minute appearance of Justin Theroux and his maddeningly distracting overly dyed eyebrows and hair.

[NorthstarATL]

I really liked Eccleston's Doctor Who, but this episode might have balanced out that entire run to make me Eccleston neutral from here on out. Not that the writing was his fault, but the accent probably was. I missed the other characters and storylines, not because I'm particularly invested in them, but for the shallow reason that two at least provide a certain eye candy quotient that is necessary to sustain interest in something so dismal. On a positive note, I did find the replacement of a religion/belief system with another somewhat interesting. I just wish they'd chosen a better approach to putting it forth.

[Cozmicmyst]

It's three episodes in and I still don't understand the people in white. Can someone explain to me what that is about? And why don't they talk?

[gaPeach]

I think the people in white knew the preacher was on his way to the bank with the  money and set up the whole stoning incident.  They knew he would stop and help.  Why did the jeep back up and throw a stone at the preacher if he is not one of the white people?  I call it a total set up so they could get his church. 

 

And yeah count me in as one who does not understand the white people at all.  What is their deal and do we ever find out?    I cannot see what purpose they serve other than being annoying. 

 

And so the sheriff's wife sits in the backyard at night doing what?  Staring at the back of her own home?  If she misses her family why not go home?  What is she doing with the white people.  And I noticed she was not smoking either.

[Ronin Jackson]

It's three episodes in and I still don't understand the people in white. Can someone explain to me what that is about? And why don't they talk?

 

The "why" about those people hasn't been explained.  To me that's not the problem, the bigger problem is that the show isn't giving me any reason to care about the "why".

 

I did like this episode better than the others, if only because I found the story to be more involving.  I understood Father Jamison's motivations, and I didn't want him to lose the money, etc.  But it was hardly a game changer as far as my overall lukewarm take on the show so far.  I'm not sure how many more episodes I'll give it.

[Constantinople]

I think the people in white knew the preacher was on his way to the bank with the  money and set up the whole stoning incident.  They knew he would stop and help.  Why did the jeep back up and throw a stone at the preacher if he is not one of the white people?  I call it a total set up so they could get his church.

It's possible, but I don't know how they would know Jamison had the money, nor that he'd be out long enough to prevent him from going to the bank. And if they knew he had the money, why didn't they take it from his car? Or are you suggesting they did take it, and only put it back after it was clear Jamison wouldn't make the deadline?

Another possibility is just garden variety violence directed towards those deemed to be anti-social troublemakers. Someone beat the crap out of the Father Jamison at the start of the episode for his "investigative journalism", and from the scene at the hospital, it appears not to have been the first time. The smoking cult was attacked at the 3 year anniversary commemoration in the park, and individual cult members have had things, such as red paint thrown at them before.

[gaPeach]

It's possible, but I don't know how they would know Jamison had the money, nor that he'd be out long enough to prevent him from going to the bank. And if they knew he had the money, why didn't they take it from his car? Or are you suggesting they did take it, and only put it back after it was clear Jamison wouldn't make the deadline?

 

 Just speculating on my part.  I figured that is why they were watching him earlier in the episode.  Plus I don't know if they are or have supernatural powers at their disposal since I have no clue what the hell they stand for other than poster children for smoking and cancer.  No I do not think they took the money and put it back.  They didn't need to since they knocked him out and kept him from the bank that day. 

 

And like someone mentioned earlier, what happened to his wife for the 3 days he was knocked out?

[xlibris]

I liked this episode because it was the first time I got any insight into the choices a character made or the path a character chose. It's a character we haven't seen much of yet, but I guess that will change (and good -- I like Christopher Eccleston).

 

It's fine if characters have secrets, but basic elements of their personality shouldn't be among them. So everyone's screwed up because people they know were spirited away -- I get it. What I don't get is why most of the people on this show behave the way they behave. We know a few things about Matt now. I suspect Nora took her claims adjuster job because other people's pain can be cathartic and that appeals to her somehow. That's about it.

Edited July 14, 2014 by xlibris

[Milaxx]

The "why" about those people hasn't been explained.  To me that's not the problem, the bigger problem is that the show isn't giving me any reason to care about the "why".

 

I think that's my issue with the show. It's not unusual for a show to hold off on a big reveal or mystery. A successful show will build anticipation and curiosity. This show just wears you down by heaping one depressing situation on top of another. 

[MissScarlett]

I wasn't too thrilled to have a whole episode centered around a character of whom we've barely seen other than an occasional shot / line about the various disappeared and how they were unworthy of a rapture-experience.  It would seem that the good reverend has some secrets of his own.  For instance, why did the judge hide $20,000 in a JIF jar for the Rev to use when / if he was in need?  

 

The Rev. was a total dick to his sister.  It almost felt like he was blackmailing her for the money for his church when he mentioned the little ditty about her husband having an affair prior to his disappearance.

 

I feel like there are too many small important questions that need to be answered and more of the main cult groups explained a little more.  

 

I want to know why the Chief's wife left him for the chain-smoking tribe.  What are they about?  Why so silent?  Why do they wear white?  Why do they smoke like chimneys?  Why do they cut down trees in frustration?  Do they believe in God or nothing at all?  Why is the Chief's son estranged?  Where is Prophet Wayne?  Why are his hugs so powerful?

 

It seems (to me) that some things are being shown that should be told and other things are being told that need to be shown.  If that makes sense. 

[Constantinople]

Some day-to-day things I found a little odd

 

I've never heard of an Episcopalian priest personally owning a church.  I could see Father Jamison being in effect a trustee, or the authorized agent of the trustee, i.e, the bishop.  But personally owning it seems extremely unusual.

 

The casino's security seemed a little lax.  I don't claim to have first hand knowledge, but I'd think they'd take steps to prevent their customers, particularly the winning customers, from being robbed in their parking lot.  Aside from being bad for business, it leaves them open to a lawsuit.  I'd think they'd have security walk him to his car, or ask if he wanted the money wired to a bank account.

 

Also, Father Jamison didn't win enough to both pay off the bank and the taxes he'll owe on his winnings.  Of course, since Father Jamison already murdered one person, and baptized a child without both parents' consent, he's probably not too worried about Uncle Sam.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Constantinople

[Blakeston]

I don't really understand his mission, and understand why it's a punchable offense to many, but I appreciate his conviction, even to the point that he wouldn't back down when offered to keep his church.

 

I think a big part of the reverend's mission is based on, "How dare anyone say that all those other people we lost on Oct. 14 were good enough to be raptured, but my wife wasn't!"

 

And also, "After all the suffering I've been through, I've still kept my faith, so how dare anyone say that there was a rapture, and that I was left behind!"

 

He was looking at a painting of Job, and I think we're supposed to see him as a Job-like figure. He's suffered horribly, and he wants to know god's plan, because he doesn't understand how someone like him could be punished even more. But in the bible, Job's demand to know why he was forsaken was considered sinful. And the reverend is being a whole lot more sinful, because he's not only seeking answers, he's passing judgment on those who were lost, and showing a cold indifference to their families. And his own family (ie, his sister).

 

It's three episodes in and I still don't understand the people in white. Can someone explain to me what that is about? And why don't they talk?

 

 

All we know for sure is that they call themselves the Guilty Remnant, and they believe that talking about October 14 is "wasting your breath," and they target people who they see as potential recruits by following them around.

 

The rest, thus far, is up to interpretation. I get the impression that they believe that they shouldn't go on with their normal lives - or even do much of anything at all - because what's the point of doing anything now that so many people are lost?

 

I think the smoking is meant as a form of self-abuse, because they feel guilty about still being here on earth. And that it's also a way to say, "We might as well smoke, because who cares if we live or die anymore."

 

I think their refusal to talk, and the loss of their individual identities, is also a penance.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Blakeston

[xlibris]

Of course, since Father Jamison already murdered one person, and baptized a child without both parents' consent ...

THIS. I know I just said I liked this episode, but WTF. 

 

Has organized religion just totally fallen apart in the world of this show? Is it every house of worship for itself? I keep expecting to see a new faith based on the chapel art in the opening credits, but three cults seems like a lot for one show.

[gaPeach]

I want to know why the Chief's wife left him for the chain-smoking tribe.  What are they about?  Why so silent?  Why do they wear white?  Why do they smoke like chimneys?  Why do they cut down trees in frustration?  Do they believe in God or nothing at all?  Why is the Chief's son estranged?  Where is Prophet Wayne?  Why are his hugs so powerful?

 

A poster mentioned in the first episode's thread that it seems as though the series started mid season and we missed the first 3-4 episodes.  Too many questions and I don't really care about most of characters so far.  I did enjoy this episode though.

 

 

The casino's security seemed a little lax.  I don't claim to have first hand knowledge, but I'd think they'd take steps to prevent their customers, particularly the winning customers, from being robbed in their parking lot.  Aside from being bad for business, it leaves them open to a lawsuit.  I'd think they'd have security walk him to his car, or ask if he wanted the money wired to a bank account.

 

My thought exactly when he was walking to car.  I thought it was usual that the casino did not send security with him to make sure he got safely to his car and off the premises.  And when he sat in his car for so long I knew the guy was going to come up and rob him.  It was almost as bad on when Hank on Breaking Bad sat in his car long enough for the two assassins to get to his car.   

[meep.meep]

Had a real Losty vibe!  Which I liked because first season Lost was awesome.

 

The guy who brought his son in to be baptized gave a name of someone who disappeared who was no saint to Jamison.  When Jamison researched him and printed out the poster, it sure looked like our friendly dog shooter.  Am I missing something?

 

And big points for me - Laurie got a Sharpie!

[90PercentGravity]

For instance, why did the judge hide $20,000 in a JIF jar for the Rev to use when / if he was in need?

It wasn't the judge that left it, it was Hot Cop's dad. Since the judge was one of the departed (or whatever), maybe it was a stash they found in his house during post-departure investigations? I don't think we got all of the Rev's story. It seemed he had some history with the judge that wasn't fully expounded upon. Maybe the 20k was what the judge was paid off with in order to rule somehow against the Rev.

[ottoDbusdriver]

It wasn't the judge that left it, it was Hot Cop's dad. Since the judge was one of the departed (or whatever), maybe it was a stash they found in his house during post-departure investigations? I don't think we got all of the Rev's story. It seemed he had some history with the judge that wasn't fully expounded upon. Maybe the 20k was what the judge was paid off with in order to rule somehow against the Rev.

 

Since the Judge was one of the departed, maybe the Judge was driving the other car that hit Rev. Matt's car and crippled his wife.  And that's why Rev. Matt has a personal grudge against the Judge.

[purplemouth]

I really liked this episode a lot, despite its grimness. But I don't hold a grudge against Lindelof, so I'm willing to take this ride wherever it goes.

As Matt pointed out in his recap, in the pilot, students didn't participate in the Pledge of Allegiance, but the majority did participate in the prayer. So theoretically, the departure has made people more religious, but if that were the case, why was attendance at Rev's church so low? Are people more spiritual but less religious? It certainly doesn't seem like the human race has become "better", considering all of the violence this episode and the attack in the pilot on the GR.

[KoBnR]

 

ETA: Perhaps it was a little too early in the series to have one character carry the entire episode.  I believe Father Jamison was in every single scene, and even the police chief wasn't in every scene in the first two episodes.

That's what my problem was. I just didn't care for this guy and I didn't care to care for him. Boring episode.

[90PercentGravity]

Since the Judge was one of the departed, maybe the Judge was driving the other car that hit Rev. Matt's car and crippled his wife.  And that's why Rev. Matt has a personal grudge against the Judge.

Solid spec. I can see this being true. Rev is inconsolable and starts to do research on the judge and realizes he was taking bribes and that sends him into this spiral. It makes sense.

[canter]

I think a big part of the reverend's mission is based on, "How dare anyone say that all those other people we lost on Oct. 14 were good enough to be raptured, but my wife wasn't!"

And also, "After all the suffering I've been through, I've still kept my faith, so how dare anyone say that there was a rapture, and that I was left behind!"

Yes, that seems to be his motivation. It doesn't make sense to me, though, because it doesn't seem to be a commonly held belief that all the departed were saintly. We heard snippets of talk on the television news programs saying that there was no rhyme or reason to the disappearances, whether racial, geographic, or in terms of how good people were. So why does Matt have a personal mission to get out a truth that everyone already seems to accept?

[shapeshifter]

I think the people in white knew the preacher was on his way to the bank with the money and set up the whole stoning incident. They knew he would stop and help. Why did the jeep back up and throw a stone at the preacher if he is not one of the white people? I call it a total set up so they could get his church.

That didn't occur to me--I guess because there's so many violent reactions on the show--but if so, I will be annoyed that there's no Law & Order/CSI dudes to investigate so he can get his church back when it's proven they violated laws to get it. And I really don't see Hot Cop as being up to the task of investigating that incident.

I've never heard of an Episcopalian priest personally owning a church.

I don't think he owns it, but rather with the loss of roughly 90% of the congregation (based on the comparison of the few in attendance at the real service vs. the filled church in his dream while he was unconscious for 2 days) the tithes and offerings that paid the church mortgage have dried up. We also saw him polishing furniture and doing a lot of other tasks that in the past would have been done by others, so it stands to reason that he's the only one left to manage the finances.

It seems that one reason people have left Christian churches is because the whole rapture thing was debunked by the disappearances. That's why he's so driven to prove that it wasn't the rapture--with his posters demonstrating that the taken were not the chosen, but rather the sinners and innocent alike. Heck, even the viewers seem to think it was supposed to be the rapture. Maybe the Show wants the viewers to be confused to relate to the characters?

I expect the Reverend might wind up joining the white smokers, but sort of hope not. I guess he could pay for a lot of care for his wife with the gambling winnings, which would leave him free to go smoke.

He was looking at a painting of Job, and I think we're supposed to see him as a Job-like figure. He's suffered horribly, and he wants to know god's plan, because he doesn't understand how someone like him could be punished even more. But in the bible, Job's demand to know why he was forsaken was considered sinful. And the reverend is being a whole lot more sinful, because he's not only seeking answers, he's passing judgment on those who were lost, and showing a cold indifference to their families. And his own family (ie, his sister)

I saw it like that too. I guess the GR who stalk him are like Job's friends who told him to just curse God and die--which in the show, would be like joining the GR.

Here's the joke that is the reference for the episode title ("Two Boats And A Helicopter"): http://www.bepop.com.ar/chistes/jokes294a.html

Why does Hot Cop's wife write "Not a Cult"?

Edited July 14, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Latverian Diplomat]

THIS. I know I just said I liked this episode, but WTF. 

 

Has organized religion just totally fallen apart in the world of this show? Is it every house of worship for itself? I keep expecting to see a new faith based on the chapel art in the opening credits, but three cults seems like a lot for one show.

 

 

As Matt pointed out in his recap, in the pilot, students didn't participate in the Pledge of Allegiance, but the majority did participate in the prayer. So theoretically, the departure has made people more religious, but if that were the case, why was attendance at Rev's church so low? Are people more spiritual but less religious?

I think that Matt has become such a pariah from publicizing the sins of the departed, it might be a mistake to over-generalize from his church to all others. He also frankly, seems to be doing a terrible job. Spending all his time on his personal project, Even he admitted that his sermon was based on a warmed-over anecdote.

[benteen]

IGN pointed this out, how much head trauma does Matthew have?  The car accident, the beating he took at the beginning of the episode (not the first time that happened to him), the beating in the parking lot, and finally taking a rock to the skull that knocked him out for three days.  His brain has got to be turning into that of an NFL player with multiple concussions.

 

I think you would be a big spike in organized religion if an event like this would occur.  There's no scientific explanation for what happened so saying it's God's work is just as plausible as anything else.  I think many would return for religion because they would be scared that God would make them disappear or that they would pray to him to return their loved ones.  I can also see a ton of people losing their faith and not wanting to pray to a God who took away their loved ones for no reason.

[Helena Dax]

 

I've never heard of an Episcopalian priest personally owning a church.

Yeah, I was confused about that too. I didn't know a person could own that kind of church. Anyway, I can't say I was really interested in his story. 

[Milaxx]

The casino's security seemed a little lax.  I don't claim to have first hand knowledge, but I'd think they'd take steps to prevent their customers, particularly the winning customers, from being robbed in their parking lot.  Aside from being bad for business, it leaves them open to a lawsuit.  I'd think they'd have security walk him to his car, or ask if he wanted the money wired to a bank account.

 

This was one of the few things that didn't ring false. Local casinos are a fairly new occurrence in my neck of the woods. Until maybe 5 years ago you had to go to Atlantic City or Vegas to gamble. A few years back gamble came to town and after a low level bidding war, we know have casinos here in Philadelphia & the Delaware Valley area. I don't know what they are doing with security but since then it's not uncommon to have new reports of these types of robberies in parking lots of casinos stretching from Pennsylvania to Maryland. From what I've read some of the casinos will ask if you want an escort to your car, but that's about it.

 

I've never heard of an Episcopalian priest personally owning a church.  I could see Father Jamison being in effect a trustee, or the authorized agent of the trustee, i.e, the bishop.  But personally owning it seems extremely unusual.

 

That did sound weird but his sister did say he inherited the church from his father.

[Robespierre]

I think the people in white knew the preacher was on his way to the bank with the  money and set up the whole stoning incident.  They knew he would stop and help.  Why did the jeep back up and throw a stone at the preacher if he is not one of the white people?  I call it a total set up so they could get his church.

So why not steal his money while he's unconscious?

[izabella]

I think that Matt has become such a pariah from publicizing the sins of the departed, it might be a mistake to over-generalize from his church to all others. He also frankly, seems to be doing a terrible job. Spending all his time on his personal project, Even he admitted that his sermon was based on a warmed-over anecdote.

 

Agreed.  He doesn't come across as someone a person would want to go to for spiritual guidance.  He comes across as a fanatical nutjob, so unless you buy into his mission, you'll go elsewhere. 

[Blakeston]

Yes, that seems to be his motivation. It doesn't make sense to me, though, because it doesn't seem to be a commonly held belief that all the departed were saintly. We heard snippets of talk on the television news programs saying that there was no rhyme or reason to the disappearances, whether racial, geographic, or in terms of how good people were. So why does Matt have a personal mission to get out a truth that everyone already seems to accept?

 

I've thought about that, too.

 

I'd imagine there would have to be some people out there who'd think it was the rapture. Especially because every religious reaction we've seen to Oct. 14 thus far has been completely batshit. But if there's a substantial number of people out there who believe it was the rapture, and that's motivating the reverend's crusade, the writers really should have let us know that those people are out there.

 

On the other hand, we've seen that people refer to the disappeared people as "heroes." We know that there's a tendency to whitewash the memories of the people who departed.

 

It could also be that the reverend is just trying to convince himself that he wasn't left behind. His biggest fear might be that even after surviving all that tragedy in his life, and continuing to believe, he'll end up being forsaken for his sins anyway.

 

So why not steal his money while he's unconscious?

 

Maybe the GR didn't know he had that money?

 

If they'd heard that he was trying to save the church - maybe from the guy at the bank telling them, "I let Matt know that he can keep the church if he beats your offer by the end of tomorrow" - then maybe they were just been trying to incapacitate him so that there was no chance he'd get the money together in time.

[GaT]

I've thought about that, too.

 

I'd imagine there would have to be some people out there who'd think it was the rapture. Especially because every religious reaction we've seen to Oct. 14 thus far has been completely batshit. But if there's a substantial number of people out there who believe it was the rapture, and that's motivating the reverend's crusade, the writers really should have let us know that those people are out there.

 

On the other hand, we've seen that people refer to the disappeared people as "heroes." We know that there's a tendency to whitewash the memories of the people who departed.

 

It could also be that the reverend is just trying to convince himself that he wasn't left behind. His biggest fear might be that even after surviving all that tragedy in his life, and continuing to believe, he'll end up being forsaken for his sins anyway.

 

 

Maybe the GR didn't know he had that money?

 

If they'd heard that he was trying to save the church - maybe from the guy at the bank telling them, "I let Matt know that he can keep the church if he beats your offer by the end of tomorrow" - then maybe they were just been trying to incapacitate him so that there was no chance he'd get the money together in time.

But why did they want the church in the first place? The show can't just keep throwing crap they do at us without some kind of explanation.

[iMonrey]

 

I think the smoking is meant as a form of self-abuse, because they feel guilty about still being here on earth. And that it's also a way to say, "We might as well smoke, because who cares if we live or die anymore."

 

In the pilot episode, the GR had a sign up on the wall at their headquarters (?) that read "We do not smoke for pleasure, we smoke to show our faith in God" (or, words to that effect). It seems to be their way of saying, smoking won't kill us, God will protect us. So they apparently have some kind of religious devotion in their cult. 

[ganesh]

And I think this is particularly true for those who worry it might happen again.

 

For religious people, the disappearances might be simply the work of the Devil, seeking to mislead by a mockery of the true Rapture. lso, some would still regard something Rapture-like as a vindication against Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism et al.

 

I personally would be worried it could happen again, so I'm surprised it hasn't come up on the show yet. I didn't think religious people might have those views, but that is sensible to me. Most people are religious and would think that they're good, so I'm surprised there isn't some rationalization going on that this couldn't be the rapture, because I'm still here and I'm a good person. I totally by the vindication angle because people do that irl all the time. 

 

I guess I just like Christopher Eccleston, but this is easily the best episode of the three for me.

 

He's a good actor and one of the few who can make drivel interesting, so I think that's part of it for me too. I do like that that he seems to be thinking about what happened. He seemed more like I thought people would be. 

 

The problem is nothing has really happened yet on this show. The chief has been investigating the GR for a year and had no answers? There's no directed narrative for this show. If it was just an anthology featuring different people and how they're going about their lives, then ok. But it's not really that either.

 

Yes, there have been memorials, but I don't see any indication that the general public has turned all of the disappeared into saints.

 

On the other hand, we've seen that people refer to the disappeared people as "heroes." We know that there's a tendency to whitewash the memories of the people who departed.

 

The statue in the town is pretty heavy on the religion angle. The vibe of the town gathering was pretty hero ish to me. What the show really needs to do is feature someone who is better off because their abusive spouse is gone, or something like that. 

 

It's fine if characters have secrets, but basic elements of their personality shouldn't be among them. So everyone's screwed up because people they know were spirited away -- I get it. What I don't get is why most of the people on this show behave the way they behave.

 

I don't get it either. The show has been largely superficial to this extent. 

 

So theoretically, the departure has made people more religious, but if that were the case, why was attendance at Rev's church so low?

 

This was one of the few things that didn't ring false. Local casinos are a fairly new occurrence in my neck of the woods. Until maybe 5 years ago you had to go to Atlantic City or Vegas to gamble.

 

The show mentioned that the casinos were in CT, which has Foxwoods and Mohegin (sp) Sun. They've both been around for over 20 years iirc. These aren't really considered 'local'. They could have meant other casinos in CT, but irl there are only these. They could have changed the dialogue to amend that. Unless they meant those casinos in which case the lax security is just the show being sloppy. 

[Constantinople]

So theoretically, the departure has made people more religious, but if that were the case, why was attendance at Rev's church so low?

Because the true believers were all at brunch, drinking Bloody Marys.

 

Sorry, as someone who underwent baptism and confirmation as an Episcopalian, I couldn't resist a little Anglican humor.

On a more serious note, I agree with Latverian Diplomat 

 

I think that Matt has become such a pariah from publicizing the sins of the departed, it might be a mistake to over-generalize from his church to all others. He also frankly, seems to be doing a terrible job. Spending all his time on his personal project, Even he admitted that his sermon was based on a warmed-over anecdote.

How many people would want to join a church where they have to worry about whether the priest will out their secrets? For now he's just bad mouthing the departed, but who's to say what he'll do next.

But even if the Departure caused some to be more religious, I'm not sure if the mainline Protestant churches would be the ones to benefit from that.

[A Boston Gal]

Perhaps I'm over-thinking this, but in addition to the lack of security, wouldn't the casino also have deducted some of the cash for taxes? So, he shouldn't have walked out of there with the complete $160,000.

 

I wonder if the care-taker was still watching Donna Moss after three days.

Edited July 16, 2014 by A Boston Gal