S02.E13: Icing Conditions

[ottoDbusdriver]

Episode Description:

Michaela and Ben put everything on the line to attempt a daring rescue; As the final hours of Zeke's life approach, Saanvi and Vance make a last-ditch effort to appeal to the Major, who may be the only person who can save him.

Note: This is the Season 2 finale.

Promo clip

Sneak Peek # 1

Sneak Peek # 2

 

[Wonderer]

I am done with the show, to kill him and then resurrect him? 🤦‍♀️Jared and Micaela are done 👎

[KaveDweller]

I didn't think it was possible for the parents of a kidnapped child to be so unlikable, but Ben and Grace really proved me wrong. Michaela is at fault for Cal being kidnapped because she didn't let drug dealers go free? If she did, they probably would have hurt someone else. I know he was upset about Cal, but screaming at Michaela about how she should have let those guys go was terrible.

If I had to blindly follow those ridiculous callings to beat the stupid death date, I don't think I would want to do it.

Did not expect Saanvi to kill the major.  

I am not sure how those cops could have been sure there are no bodies in that frozen over lake. I don't even believe they would do such an extensive search of a frozen lake, since obviously, if anyone was still down there they are not alive. But at the end, I was expecting those fisherman to pull out the drug dealer bodies from the ocean. The plane is an interesting twist, I guess.

[BluBarbi98]

So Zeke is  still alive. I don’t dislike the actor or the character but it seems like such a cop-out. Plus, Jared is my end goal for Micaela. Love the ending with the plane parts being found. Also, poor Saanvi. She can’t catch a break. I like the show but hope the writers have a real end plan in sight.

Edited April 7, 2020 by BluBarbi98

[ams1001]

"I think I know where he is!"

'K, I'ma just stare at you for a bit now. 🙄

 

[shapeshifter]

Am I the only one who laughed uproariously when Jared looked at defrosted Zeke?

[KaveDweller]

9 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Am I the only one who laughed uproariously when Jared looked at defrosted Zeke?

Definitely not.

That was probably not the intended reaction though.....

[me5671]

37 minutes ago, Wonderer said:

I am done with the show, to kill him and then resurrect him? 🤦‍♀️Jared and Micaela are done 👎

I agree, not killing off Zeke was a stupid move by this show. They JUST miraculously brought back TJ.  What's the point of having Zeke beat the death date?  It ruins the suspense if a show like this isnt willing to part with a character occassionally.

I also feel like Zeke's storyline had run its course. I like the character, but all his storylines are resolved and I feel like that would have been a good, fitting end for him. Inexplicably resurrecting him like that feels like such a cop-out and lazy writing. 

On the other hand, having Saanvi accidentally kill the Major was well-done. It was surprising, but moved the story forward in a compelling way. The revelation the Major made just before she died was interesting too. 

So the bodies of the three kidnappers were never recovered?  They are definitely coming back from the dead next season. 

What does everyone make of wreckage from the plane being found in the ocean?  Quite the twist, don't know how I feel about it yet. It depends on where they go with it next season. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by me5671

[willco]

So, all the passengers have to be clones, right ? Or droids, replicants, alien pods or something other-worldly. Because, as far as I know, you can't freeze to death and then 60 seconds later, miraculously,  defrost-- unless maybe that light was a big microwave blast. Then I guess so. ( But if Zeke is a  reheated version of himself, Mick better dump him-- microwaved stuff never tastes as good !)

 

So the plane wing that the ( Cuban ? ) guy reeled in-- does that mean that the plane did crash ? So the government replaced the plane and the passengers ? 

 

I'm confused. Which seems to be the point ??

[shapeshifter]

35 minutes ago, me5671 said:

I also feel like Zeke's storyline had run its course. I like the character, but all his storylines are resolved and I feel like that would have been a good, fitting end for him....

On the other hand, having Saanvi accidentally kill the Major was well-done. It was surprising, but moved the story forward in a compelling way. The revelation the Major made just before she died was interesting too. 

On the third hand, I thought killing off the Major made sense because her character had run its course --straight into a wall of pointlessness, whereas it just seemed stupid to resurrect Zeke for the sake of a triangle.

 

 

38 minutes ago, me5671 said:

What does everyone make of wreckage from the plane being found in the ocean? 

I was sure the Cuban vessel was going to pull up the bodies of the 3 drug dealers and my only feeling of suspense was about whether or not they would be alive. The wing of the airplane was better --and very Lost-ian-- but the crusty old fisherman miles from cell signal knowing all about 828 was a bit of a stretch.

But, anyway, yeah, @willco, it does look like they're going for some sort of duplicates. I'd bet on alternate universe(s) bleeding through.

[Angeleyes]

Some takeaways from this episode:

The Stone family apparently keeps their back door unlocked. Seems like a good idea based on their past experiences. No danger in that at all. 
 

Wakanda Forever is their family safe phrase as evidenced at the failed kidnapping drop off point. 
 

The Major was ultimately a lame big bad and I’m fine with her dying if it means we never have to see her again. Obviously, people come back to life on this show so we can’t completely rule that out. 
 
I’m still not sure how the clue Dug meaning the Dugout restaurant in the Catskills lead to an exact pinpoint location of the kidnappers’ cabin. 
 

Cal is bad luck for everyone around him. Although, I guess their group getting struck by lightning on the ice ended up saving Zeke. 
 

The part of the plane recovered did not have any numbers on it (that we could observe). It could be a piece of another plane by that airline and not 828. I’m sure it will be connected in some way though. It makes me wonder if the government entity the Major was a part of had blown up another plane to possibly cover up the 828 disappearance in some way. I’m sure we’ll get a convoluted explanation next season. 

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, Angeleyes said:

Cal is bad luck for everyone around him. Although, I guess their group getting struck by lightning on the ice ended up saving Zeke. 

I didn't think the lightning saved Zeke, it just saved Cal. Zeke was then "saved" by a bright light, but I didn't think it was lightning. Was it?

Edited April 7, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Angeleyes]

Just now, shapeshifter said:

I didn't think the lightning save Zeke, it just saved Cal. Zeke was then "saved" by a bright light, but I didn't think it was lightning. Was it?

Who knows with this show? IIRC lightning was a part of Zeke’s experience in the cave so I assumed they meant for it to be a part of his resurrection. 

[alvajon]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

On the third hand, I thought killing off the Major made sense because her character had run its course --straight into a wall of pointlessness, whereas it just seemed stupid to resurrect Zeke for the sake of a triangle.

 

I was sure the Cuban vessel was going to pull up the bodies of the 3 drug dealers and my only feeling of suspense was about whether or not they would be alive. The wing of the airplane was better --and very Lost-ian-- but the crusty old fisherman miles from cell signal knowing all about 828 was a bit of a stretch.

But, anyway, yeah, @willco, it does look like they're going for some sort of duplicates. I'd bet on alternate universe(s) bleeding through.

"But, anyway, yeah, @willco, it does look like they're going for some sort of duplicates. I'd bet on alternate universe(s) bleeding through."

Memories of Fringe’s alternate universe--Walternate was my favorite.  I miss Fringe. 

[Dowel Jones]

So Michaela thinks it was a good idea to put $1million dollars of meth back on the streets on a convoluted, may not even work rescue plan?  You know, there are people who could have helped you set up that sting.  Where would you find them?  Oh yeah, the police department.  Duh. 

Grace snapping at the PD Captain about how she would regret it if Cal was harmed in any way should have brought a response along the lines of "If any of those crooks gets away you will be watching Cal graduate high school from a video monitor in prison".  A moron like Grace has no right to yell at anyone.

Can someone tell me how Zeke, barely able to walk, even face down in the snow at one point, managed to beat Ben and Michaela to the lake?

Was that an SR-71 on the flight deck of the USS Intrepid?  Sure enough, I looked it up and the museum has a very similar A-12.  Not really an carrier airplane, but what the heck.

Speaking of planes, the wreckage brought up by the fishermen did have the Montego Air logo on the side, so that's how they knew it was 828.  Unless Montego Air has a horrible safety record.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Dowel Jones
Still confused on the characters

[basiltherat]

I didn't hear what the Major told Saanvi before she "died" -- can someone enlighten me?

Saanvi, you need to hang up your Big Bad shoes when tiny Cal is a bigger badass than you!

Zeke looks quite yummy when he's thawed out.

[ams1001]

14 minutes ago, basiltherat said:

I didn't hear what the Major told Saanvi before she "died" -- can someone enlighten me?

I believe she said there is no cure, and also there was something about them intending to infect other people..? Which...so they went through some sort of time warp and now they have some...alteration in their genes...that is in their blood that can "infect" other people...so...huh? If it's a genetic thing, it's not "infectious." So confused but I'm not entirely sure why, or if, I care.

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

24 minutes ago, basiltherat said:

I didn't hear what the Major told Saanvi before she "died" -- can someone enlighten me?

I believe she said there is no cure, and also there was something about them intending to infect other people..?

Yes, this^  but I didn't get this meaning (although you may be correct):

7 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

so they went through some sort of time warp and now they have some...alteration in their genes...that is in their blood that can "infect" other people...so...

we definitely agree on:

7 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

...huh? If it's a genetic thing, it's not "infectious." So confused but I'm not entirely sure why, or if, I care.

 

[ams1001]

13 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

but I didn't get this meaning (although you may be correct):

 

I may be, but who the hell knows...?

(I was also doing something else at the same time so I may not have heard correctly.)

[sempervivum]

I LOL'd at Zeke being resurrected during the Easter week show. Too bad they didn't have him wrapped in a blanket; the miraculous flash of light could have left a nice image for them to remember it all with.

Since I'd be fine with Cal disappearing forever, I couldn't work up much interest in the kidnap plot, but I had major eyeroll over the 'soft hearted criminal' trope.

I agree with those positing another dimension being involved, as far as the plane part goes, although that doesn't suggest any rationale for the callings.

[CCTC]

I am not a huge fan of Cal, but I actually think he did a good job of seeming legitimately scared.  It was realistic rather being plucky and defiant when it looked like he could very well be killed.

Ben and Grace were obnoxious, but also thought - while not objectively justified - was the kind of reaction a parent might have had.  You tend to lash out and say things you should not under high pressure situations.   At least Ben acknowledged this later.

I like Zeke, but think his death would have brought more drama in the future.  Plus, he worked through his demons, so his character has kind of run its course.  Having a character around just to maintain a triangle can be a bit tiresome, and I don't see Jared leaving the show.  It would be realistic for Zeke and Michaela to realize they were more infatuated with each other and swept along with the drama of the situation and are not really soulmates or even compatible long term.  Although I suspect any relationship issues they have will be more soap contrived than based on how people are in real life.

At some point - they really do need to have someone be really dead.  I wonder when and if the pilot will ever fly back from his black lightening take off (did they even mention black lightening this year).  I really hope the Major will stay dead, because that would be a cop-out for Sanvi and any ramifications she is dealing with for poisoning someone.

I wonder if TJ will come back from Egypt next season.  I suppose that depends on if it is renewed and their budget.

 

[tennisgurl]

I cant blame Michaela for not letting that dirtbag meth guy go just because the stupid Callings told her to, that just seems stupid, especially as a cop. That guy is clearly very dangerous and violent, and very much not a guy you want running around, so what was she supposed to do? Explain that she let the violent drug dealer go because the voices in her head said she should for some reason she cant explain? 

I am torn, because I like Zeke so I am glad that we arent losing him (this show cant afford to lose its few really likable characters) but letting him survive his Death Date because of a magic lighting strike just seems like such a cop out. All that build up, and he lives just because we said so? So where does Zeke go from here as a character? Is he just stuck here to be one third or a boring love triangle? 

I know I should feel bad for Grace and Ben, what with their son being kidnapped, but they were acting like such assholes, especially to Michaela, who was really trying to help. She had no idea this was going to happen, how is this her fault? If the stupid Callings would just explain themselves instead of all of this "working in mysterious ways" bullshit, none of this would have happened! And then Grace put hands on a cop and threatened her for daring to try and get her son back in a way that Grace isn't into! Grace is damn lucky she isn't reuniting with Cal from inside lock up. At least Ben was trying to be proactive in finding Cal and apologized to Michaela for lashing out at her, Grace of course only contributed yelling and blaming, and never apologized. Grace isn't really an apology kind of person.

Please tell me that they wont try and make this nasty meth dealer into some kind of reoccurring villain or something. I mean, fire and fury? You kidnapped a kid who recently had cancer dude, not exactly an epic league badass here. They go from having a high ranking military conspiracy engaged in human experimentation to some random asshole drug dealer as a bad guy? I guess he has some greater point after the Callings have built him and the other guys up, but he doesn't exactly scream impressive.

Thanks for fucking things up random lady on the street! 

There were a few interesting developments at least. Saanvi killing the Major was actually surprising, and since the Major isn't a particularly engaging villain, killing her and focusing and how it affects Saanvi, and maybe getting a new, better bad guy, is a good development. The government maybe trying to weaponize the death date might be an interesting development too, even though I have no clue why the hell that could work. They also find the plane, which is also a decently interesting development. So, the passengers are clones or something right? Ghosts? Golems made with very skin-like clay? I feel like the original people must be dead and at the bottom of the sea, or something like that. Or its from another dimension? Maybe there is a parallel universe thing going on and the planes switched?

Edited April 7, 2020 by tennisgurl

[chocolatetruffle]

Just a few random thoughts. Zeke's story is definitely not done. The Major said that his exons (part of the DNA sequencing code) were key in her successfully completing her weaponizing of their anomaly. 

My theory is that the tail of the plane was planted by the gov't to create chaos about the passengers return, causing their lives to be put in jeopardy by a population that thinks they're demons or aliens. By putting them in danger, the gov't can observe how they use the callings to save/protect themselves.

Zeke's name, Ezekiel means "God will strengthen" in Hebrew and he certainly did in this episode. Michaela is the feminine of Michael the Biblical archangel who is the fierce fighter and protector of the Isrealites during the apocalypse. These two together are going to be a force to be reckoned with.

This show has always been about redemption, faith and transformation. It's themes include second chances and the power of love and family as a source of strength during adversity. The plane was just a catalyst that triggered the story of how these people approach the challenges that are set before them as a result of being chosen or "called." 

Finally, the look on Jared's face when he saw Zeke alive was priceless. I'm glad they made peace and hope that Jared finds a woman who is a better match for him - like another lady cop, perhaps.... Oh and whatever happened to his wife, by the way?

Edited April 7, 2020 by chocolatetruffle

[basiltherat]

So, what does the name Jared mean -- sub-eating child molester?!

If the tailies . . . er . . . Losties . . . er . . . 828ers are dead, are they in purgatory and working their way back to a "good death" ??  And where the hell is Vincent The Dog?

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I think more than likely the people on the plane are all dead, and they just don't know it.   I think the "callings" are a way for them to be constantly tested.  If they pass all of the tests, they are sent to one area of the afterlife, and if they fail they are headed for a much hotter part of the afterlife.

I would kind of love if the test turns out to be, "are you dumb enough to blindly follow a voice in your head, or can you think for yourself?", but somehow I don't think that's where this is going.

[gail56]

The way I see it, certain people die and then come back. They get callings that if they follow them through, allows them to stay resurrected after the anniversary of their death goes by, ala Zeke. The plane exploded on the tarmac, it looks like it exploded in the air according to Ben 's vision. Plane died again it's original "death"  on the tarmac after its return. It fulfilled its mission of returning resurrected passengers.

[Dowel Jones]

12 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I think the "callings" are a way for them to be constantly tested.  If they pass all of the tests, they are sent to one area of the afterlife, and if they fail they are headed for a much hotter part of the afterlife.

Or they're ripping off The Good Place and making them come back again and again until they improve. Of course, having to return to this crowd every time might make me opt for the butthole spiders.

Quote

Thanks for fucking things up random lady on the street! 

I'm on her side, actually.  If you see something, say something.  The duffel  could have been a bomb, even though she wasn't seated in the best position.  I blame the patrol cop, instead.  When Michaela flashed her badge and said 'it's an undercover operation', the cop should have known to back off and let it roll through, instead of calling her sergeant.  Always time for questions later.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Dowel Jones

[ottoDbusdriver]

This has to be the 4th or 5th time Ben has had that same plane exploding calling -- and every single time he seems to come up with yet another wildly different explanation for it.  He started this episode by stating the plane exploding calling meant Cal's kidnapping -- WTF ?

This episode full of so many miracles it was ridiculous -- lightning in December that strikes just in the right place to initiate a crack in the lake so the 3 dirtbags, Zeke and Cal all fall in the water (was it dark lightning, because the writers seem to have forgotten all about that), Zeke's miraculous glow to bring him back to life, Saanvi miraculously finding the Major a 2nd time randomly walking through a park for no apparent reason, the Police Captain miraculously not arresting Grace for threatening a police officer (but it's 'ok' because she's a mom too), the 3 dirtbags miraculously not killing each other, the 3 dirtbags miraculously disappearing from the lake, the lightning miraculously avoiding hitting all the trees and power lines near the lake, the fact that it was winter time but miraculously you couldn't see anyone's breath in the air, the miracle when Jared was allowed to sign out a $1 million worth of meth for 'tests' after an officer supposedly off duty for her wedding tried to suspiciously sign it out first, 

I could go on.

The timeline is completely fucked -- we're just going to have to roll with the fact that it is mid-December -- again -- and yet there were no Xmas decorations to be seen anywhere in the episode.

It really bugs me that Zeke was saved by the equivalent of a 'wizard did it', and he's perfectly healed in addition to not being dead.

The whole Doug/Dug thing in the text message was just so stupid.

What a waste of the Major -- after all that buildup in Season 1, it basically amounts to nothing at all.

[llongori]

7 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

This episode full of so many miracles it was ridiculous -- lightning in December that strikes just in the right place to initiate a crack in the lake so the 3 dirtbags, Zeke and Cal all fall in the water (was it dark lightning, because the writers seem to have forgotten all about that), Zeke's miraculous glow to bring him back to life, Saanvi miraculously finding the Major a 2nd time randomly walking through a park for no apparent reason, the Police Captain miraculously not arresting Grace for threatening a police officer (but it's 'ok' because she's a mom too), the 3 dirtbags miraculously not killing each other, the 3 dirtbags miraculously disappearing from the lake, the lightning miraculously avoiding hitting all the trees and power lines near the lake, the fact that it was winter time but miraculously you couldn't see anyone's breath in the air, the miracle when Jared was allowed to sign out a $1 million worth of meth for 'tests' after an officer supposedly off duty for her wedding tried to suspiciously sign it out first, 

I could go on.

The timeline is completely fucked -- we're just going to have to roll with the fact that it is mid-December -- again -- and yet there were no Xmas decorations to be seen anywhere in the episode.

It really bugs me that Zeke was saved by the equivalent of a 'wizard did it', and he's perfectly healed in addition to not being dead.

The whole Doug/Dug thing in the text message was just so stupid.

What a waste of the Major -- after all that buildup in Season 1, it basically amounts to nothing at all.

Thanks for laying out what I couldn't manage to synthesize in a post.

My question:  Is is possible for a show this bizarre to jump the shark?  The bolded part of your comment is what pushed me over the edge.  We've endured WEEKS of angst over Zeke's impending death date.  It finally gets here, he dies, and then -FLASH!- he's not only alive, all the frostbite damage is gone.

I almost deleted the show from my scheduled recordings, but I'm one of those poor suckers that will hang with something to the ugly, bitter end.  If it comes back, I may try to stick it out. 

[bamlou]

On 4/7/2020 at 5:12 PM, tennisgurl said:

Thanks for fucking things up random lady on the street! 

This gave me a good chuckle, thanks for that lol. It was such a contrived and clunky way to have the exchange go sideways too. I didn't get why Michaela felt compelled to flash her badge to that random lady at all, other than to further the misunderstanding and bring the conveniently placed policewoman standing nearby into the conversation. All Michaela had to do instead was either sit back down or feign taking the bag as if she'd forgotten it and wait a little until random lady was gone, then reset the exchange. 

I get that they couldn't make it that easy to get Cal back, but wish they'd found a more inspired way to cause the exchange to fail that didn't have me yelling at my TV.

[Artsda]

Zeke not staying dead was dumb. Michaela didn't even seem that happy. lol

Edited April 10, 2020 by Artsda

[Camera One]

This was a weak season ender. 

I've actually started liking Zeke (this is the third episode with this new change of heart), but they needed more than a glowing light to justify why he didn't die after promising all season he would.

The problem with this show, way moreso than "Lost", is that there are no rules.  Things happen, just because.  The Callings are inconsistent as hell in terms of what they're trying to do or say.  

So if Michaela had "let them go" (the three sleazebags), would Zeke have survived?  The three men disappearing from the lake probably meant they will resurface at some point later just like Zeke and the passengers of 828 and Griffin (who also "drowned").  So why did The Callings save the three criminals?  

Saanvi has been on her own weird side-show for so long that she felt out of place with the other characters last episode with the wedding.  I did find The Major's fate satisfying.  She was smug as hell to the point of annoying.

Hopefully, now that she's dead, Saanvi revealing that Vance was alive won't endanger him.

I guess they can only do 13 episodes per season because their ideas are limited.  How many "Cal is in danger!" episodes can we have?  

On 4/6/2020 at 8:21 PM, shapeshifter said:

Am I the only one who laughed uproariously when Jared looked at defrosted Zeke?

He should patent the "Oh darn, you didn't die" look.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Camera One

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

On 4/6/2020 at 10:21 PM, shapeshifter said:

Am I the only one who laughed uproariously when Jared looked at defrosted Zeke?

He should patent the "Oh darn, you didn't die" look.

🤣😁😀
—although I interpreted Jared’s look as simply, “WTH?” maybe followed by, “Crap.”

Edited April 11, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Ailianna]

I am only watching this show for Josh Dallas as a dad.  I ignore almost all of it, and just hang out for moments like at the end of the episode when he's holding the baby.  I think Josh Dallas is the absolute best at playing a dad with real love and affection for his children, no matter how weird those children/relationships end up being.  (Yes, I did discover him on Once Upon a Time--how did you guess?)

[ottoDbusdriver]

19 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I can't see any other explanation for Zeke being alive and beating the death date unless there was some sort of non-human test he passed.

If this was some sort of government conspiracy, how can anyone explain Zeke still being alive?   Is there some computer chip implanted in his head that said if he saved the little obnoxious douche bag he would beat the death date?  I don't think so.  I have no idea how that would work unless a higher power was involved.

I suppose it is possible that aliens from outer space could have some how gotten involved in this and is treating those 828ers as their own personal sock puppets.

I guess the gist of things is that since Zeke did a good deed and was granted a reprieve from the death date, so all the 828ers need to do good deeds to beat the death date in 2024 (they need to be 'worthy' of not dying from the death date).   I guess that means Griffin wasn't worthy.  

Which brings up the bigger question -- how would the 828ers die on the death date ?

Griffin drowned, apparently disappeared for 3 days and was brought back to life, and then he died 3 days later (via drowning).  So, he wasn't 'worthy'.

Zeke apparently nearly froze to death in a cave, disappeared for a year, and then slowly exhibited frostbite symptoms leading up until his death date (but was saved by being deemed 'worthy' by the aliens/gods/whatever driving the callings, in fact Zeke must have been considered extra 'worthy' as he was also completely healed).

Regarding the 828ers, what happens to them if they are not deemed 'worthy' ? The plane didn't crash, so they won't die in an impact.  The plane didn't explode, so they won't die in a fire.  Are they all going to subsist on a diet of nothing but airline peanuts leading up to the death date ?  We know that Saanvi is no longer worthy as she kind of became a killer, so she should start planning to exit stage left in June 2024.

Though that final scene with the Cuban fishermen dragging up the tail section throws a wrench in everything -- Zeke wasn't duplicated (as there was no skeleton found in his cave that looked like Zeke), Griffin wasn't duplicated (because there were not 2 vans and 2 Griffins in the river), so why would Flight 828 have been duplicated -- one crashed, one not crashed (but redirect 5.5 years later) ?

[CarpeFelis]

The plane tail was a surprise. This show has been so “out there” (geez, we might as well call it Lost 2.0) that I really did expect the dirtbags to be pulled up—miraculously alive. So they can return to wreak more havoc next season, if there is one, because Jace clearly hated Michaela for reasons we still haven’t been told. Of course, if it’s the eyebrows, I wouldn’t exactly blame him...

So they return home with a miraculously alive Zeke and NOBODY comments on the fact that all his frostbite has magically disappeared?! Not even motormouth Olive? (LOL @ Jared’s “aw dammit, he’s still alive” expression.)

Speaking of motormouths, Grace should consider herself ridiculously lucky to have gotten away with threatening a police officer (who, BTW, I’m really starting to like).

Shouldn’t the whole Death Date thing become a nonissue now? Apparently all they have to do is answer a Calling on their death date and they will be immediately brought back (well, almost immediately... gotta allow their loved ones half a minute to grieve).

My theory on that tail: there are two Flight 828s, one from this universe that actually did crash, and one that crossed over from an alternate universe in some sort of space/time rift. It’s also possible there was another Montego Air crash at some point and this tail isn’t from 828, but that’s just way too mundane for this show.

P.S. Is it an East Coast thing to refer to Cal’s puffer jacket as a “bubble coat”? I’ve never heard that one before.

[Camera One]

Not surprisingly, this interview with the showrunner is vague as hell:
https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/manifest-season-2-jeff-rake-interview/

Really, what did we find out this season that really mattered?

We found out people had disappeared in history (eg. Al-Zuras).  It's intriguing, but that didn't answer anything.

We found out some people in the government were trying to weaponize the genetic mutation.  That was all that came out of that Major storyline which seemed to get dropped halfway through.

And finally, we found out people could beat their death date.  Again, it's unclear how/why.

I can't think of anything else of consequence that happened.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Camera One

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

Not surprisingly, this interview with the showrunner is vague as hell:
https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/manifest-season-2-jeff-rake-interview/

Really, what did we find out this season that really mattered?

We found out people had disappeared in history (eg. Al-Zuras).  It's intriguing, but that didn't answer anything.

We found out some people in the government were trying to weaponize the genetic mutation.  That was all that came out of that Major storyline which seemed to get dropped halfway through.

And finally, we found out people could beat their death date.  Again, it's unclear how/why.

I can't think of anything else of consequence that happened.

At the very end the show runner (Jeff Rake) does agree with Den of Geek interviewer Michael Ahr that all the 828ers did die, so there's that.  Rake talked so much about a "hypothetical" season 3 that I am really annoyed that Ahr didn't ask him if a season 3 would mention Covid-19 protocols, which I guess depends upon the timeline. And if I was an interviewer I would have asked about that damn timeline and how much are viewers supposed to be keeping track of. But that's probably a reason I don't get to do interviews. 😉

 

[KaveDweller]

On 4/12/2020 at 7:09 AM, icemiser69 said:

I can't see any other explanation for Zeke being alive and beating the death date unless there was some sort of non-human test he passed.

Well, not much of one, but the question is what was the test. If it is stupid as following the callings, I will be disappointed.

Or the other explanation is that there is no death date and they were just reading the signs wrong. 

On 4/12/2020 at 12:57 PM, CarpeFelis said:

P.S. Is it an East Coast thing to refer to Cal’s puffer jacket as a “bubble coat”? I’ve never heard that one before.

It is not a thing in New Jersey.

[CarpeFelis]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

At the very end the show runner (Jeff Rake) does agree with Den of Geek interviewer Michael Ahr that all the 828ers did die, so there's that.  Rake talked so much about a "hypothetical" season 3 that I am really annoyed that Ahr didn't ask him if a season 3 would mention Covid-19 protocols, which I guess depends upon the timeline. And if I was an interviewer I would have asked about that damn timeline and how much are viewers supposed to be keeping track of. But that's probably a reason I don't get to do interviews. 😉

 

Where did you see Rake agreeing with the interviewer that the 828ers died? What he said at the end was this, which could be interpreted that way but could also be interpreted differently (for example, they could be duplicates who crossed over from an alternate universe):

Quote

That will introduce a season-long investigation and also re-trigger the global paranoia about the passengers themselves because obviously if we do the math and we conclude that the tail fin that has been lifted out of the water somehow seems to be the identical tail fin as the plane that we saw land quite safely in New York in the series premiere and then explode right there on the tarmac, it’s a metaphysical impossibility. And as a result, what does that make our passengers?

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by CarpeFelis
formatting

[Orillia]

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2020 at 1:47 AM, Camera One said:

 

Really, what did we find out this season that really mattered?

 

To not get your hopes up that this was going to turn into a  good, smart  show.

[KaveDweller]

19 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Where did you see Rake agreeing with the interviewer that the 828ers died? What he said at the end was this, which could be interpreted that way but could also be interpreted differently (for example, they could be duplicates who crossed over from an alternate universe):

 

It is in the video clip of them talking, but didn't make the article.

However, I don't think the statement makes any sense. No one died, not Griffin, Zeke, or the 828ers. They were presumed dead because they were missing, and they were missing because they were (apparently) transported forwarded in time. There was no dead body for anyone and no near death experience.

What am I missing?

[Rahul]

This show should be billed as a comedy. That was an unintentional hour of hilarity.

First, Saanvi goes completely Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs and unintentionally kills the Major, this alleged Big Bad who has been looming for one and half seasons. 

Then we have Olive somehow able to pinpoint Cal's almost exact coordinates with one coded word of text.

A lightening blast cracks the top layer of frozen ice to reveal a frozen lake below, which conveniently engulfs the trio of kidnapping drug lords. The leader isn't able to hoist himself up to the surface but somehow has the energy and presence of mind to grab's Zeke's leg to pull him below?

Not to mention Zeke can barely walk but was able to somehow jump into the freezing water and rescue Cal, only to be miraculously rewarded with his life for the selfless gesture. (As good looking as Matt Long is, this was a major copout. The character had run its course and should have remained dead).

This BS is exactly why I usually avoid sci-fi based dramas.

[becauseIsaidso]

Well, gee golly whizzo! Zeke dies AND is resurrected.   Al-Zaurus = La Zurus (minus one measly little vowel).

Are we to believe that ALL the 828s will die and immediately come back to life? Crappy, predictable writing if that's the endgame, which I doubt only because I have actually become invested in the lives of these folks (even Grace whom I originally had no use for whatsoever) and would hate to think that people actually get paid for writing such stupidity.

So, 828 disappeared for 5 years...then it landed safe and sound...then it exploded after all the passengers deplaned.

So, they've got me for the first couple of episodes of the next season (since I see it is going to have one), but that could be it as, no matter how covid-bored I am, there IS a limit to what I am willing to  make excuses for.

[mythoughtis]

On 4/13/2020 at 9:40 PM, CarpeFelis said:

That will introduce a season-long investigation and also re-trigger the global paranoia about the passengers themselves because obviously if we do the math and we conclude that the tail fin that has been lifted out of the water somehow seems to be the identical tail fin as the plane that we saw land quite safely in New York in the series premiere and then explode right there on the tarmac, it’s a metaphysical impossibility. And as a result, what does that make our passengers?

There’s a lot of ifs, and assumings  in that paragraph.  Pretty much tells me that they didn’t die and they didn’t crash, and he’s just not saying so. 
the plane originally exploded a few days after they landed.  That’s the explosion Ben kept seeing ... until the last one when it explodes in the air.  Then we see the fishing host haul plane part up.  It’s from tne right airline, not there is nothing that identifies it as flight 828.   Which is not a plane ID anyway.

i think it’s a government strategy to scare the citizens about the passengers... getting them to take a vaccine against the ‘infection or whatever they call it’. 

[Mercolleen]

How exactly did Saanvi put the Major into anaphylaxis?

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, Mercolleen said:

How exactly did Saanvi put the Major into anaphylaxis?

Probably injected some antibodies that attacks ham acting.