S05.E04: Namaste

[shapeshifter]

15 minutes ago, BradandJanet said:

The writers found an excellent metaphor for Gus's end in Breaking Bad.

Yes. Having Gus’s deserved end permanently etched in my mind’s eye is what makes watching him now almost a treat. 
But poor Lyle. 😢

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Mesa Verde could be on the up-and-up (more or less) and still get caught in the financial crisis.  Imho, that crisis was fueled by government policies that made it easier for low-income people to get home loans.  This led to a bubble that eventually burst.  All of the funny mortgage-backed securities were a symptom of the problem, not the cause.  

That presumes that Howard had the power to effect his own business decisions, at least when they came to issues that affected Chuck directly, like Jimmy's place at HHM.  We already know that he had to take on personal debt in order to push Chuck out of the way.  

I don't want to stray into a political discussion, but yes, non corrupt financial institutions were wiped out along with corrupt ones, 12 years ago.  I do think how widespread the corruption was is understated. With particular regard to firms like Mesa Verde, the obvious corruption, which was most often ignored, was the frequency of fairly obvious phony appraisals, used to get loans approved. Regardless of why an incentive existed to employ phony appraisals, they were widespread, and many of the people managing lending institutions knew of them.

Yes, when the wolf at the door could no longer be ignored, Howard bit the bullet, personally borrowed money, and bought out Chuck. My point is that the bullet should have been bitten much sooner. Chuck was obviously mentally incompetent, even if he could still display formidable legal skill, and if you are a part owner of a business with large responsibilities to clients and employees, you simply can't tolerate a partner with obvious, towering, mental illness, participating in running the business.

 

 

[Ellaria]

On 3/10/2020 at 12:23 AM, LittleIggy said:

I love Bob Odenkirk, but that was more of Bob Odenkirk than I ever wanted to see. 

Same here. I also could have done without the extended scene of spitting in the sink.

On 3/10/2020 at 7:25 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

I haven't enjoyed Fring at all this season.  I think writing him as just a dick for the sake of being a dick makes him less interesting and is inconsistent with his BB character.  I thought the image of him being a reasonable, generous businessman and employer...until you crossed him, at which point he would turn into the Devil, was much more interesting.

Agree. Gus was one of my favorite characters in BB because of his complex nature and his intelligence. So far this season, he has spent most of his time in semi-darkness while looking off into the distance. I hope that there is a greater role for him this season and, if so, it needs to develop quickly.

Note to Lyle: run...there are plenty of fast-food establishments that need a conscientious manager.

On 3/10/2020 at 8:57 AM, icemiser69 said:

The best revenge Saul can have is to live well, but he just can't seem to live without chaos in his life.   He thrives on it.

I love Jimmy but I don’t love his tendency to be a petulant jerk. I can accept that his feelings about Howard are complicated. However, politely declining the job offer and walking out on lunch would have been the more mature way to go. Sigh...but that’s not him...

On 3/10/2020 at 10:35 AM, Bannon said:

The sadness of this story lies in Jimmy being willing to risk ruining that loving relationship with Kim, because he is so angry and grief-filled about what he had hoped for with his brother turned out to be a complete pipe-dream. Hey, Jimmy? Miliions and millions of people desperately want one person in their life with whom to have a genuinely loving relationship. You have it, and you're going to burn it down, because you insist upon being bitter and angry about your dead brother. Really sad.

An excellent observation. It really makes me reflect back on poor Gene and his lonely nights in Omaha. He had a choice and he chose poorly.

On 3/10/2020 at 11:38 AM, Tighthead said:

I'm just not quite enjoying this season as much.  Kim is compromising herself constantly, for little or no gain.  She is my favourite character, and I think we all fear her fate to some extent.  Right now she just isn't sympathetic or believable to me.

I’m not enjoying it as much either. Kim is my favorite character, too, and I’m growing impatient with her. While I don’t think that she will be physically harmed, she needs to tone down her self-destructive tendencies. I need to believe that she is a smart, savvy woman that will walk away from Jimmy, Mesa Verde and everything else that is destroying her self-respect and common sense.

Mike...I’m getting tired of his journey. There had to be a better way.

Thrilled to have Hank and Steve back. Dean Norris is an incredible presence.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Ellaria Sand

[Clanstarling]

 

On 3/9/2020 at 10:43 PM, Bannon said:

There was a time when all Jimmy wanted in the world was to work as a lawyer at HHM with his brother, and to be around Kim. That guy is dead.

And resurrected as Saul Goodman. I don't expect this season to be pleasant viewing, because Jimmy's only present when he's with Kim, and then only marginally. I always knew it was going to get sadder and more frustrating. But it's still fascinating.

On 3/10/2020 at 3:03 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I didn't think Gus was creating an alibi.  No one in law enforcement has connected him with the cartel, and even if they had, he would never be the person picking up the money.  Gus was extremely on edge about the DEA operation, which, if it worked perfectly, would result in a huge loss of money that would have to be explained to his higher-ups, and therefore he kept finding fault with the cleanliness of the fryers when they were perfectly clean.  I think he half-wanted the distraction of cleaning them himself.

Exactly.  He didn't.  It was his nerves.

That's exactly as I saw it - he could plan, but not control, the outcome of what was going on - the one thing he could control was his loyal employee and those fryers.

On 3/10/2020 at 5:44 AM, shapeshifter said:

BTW, Google’s search algorithms have already caught up since last night when this episode aired to search for definition, word origin, and etymology when you begin a search for “culvert,” and just a glance at the first page of results shows lots of things like that the “OED calls it `A recent word of obscure origin.‘”  
Nice one, Vince Gilligan, you masterful wordsmith, you!

I looked it up too, and was very amused to see that.

On 3/10/2020 at 7:45 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

Yes, Saul really just can't let go, can he?  His need to take revenge on Chuck with the malpractice insurance carrier led to Chuck's death. 

One could argue it was Chuck's obsessions that led to Chuck's death - Jimmy's actions were a contributing factor, absolutely. But Chuck couldn't let go either, could he? He took away everything Jimmy had worked for because he was embarrassed and couldn't tolerate the idea that anyone would think he was less than perfect (while convincing himself it was the principal of the thing). He wasn't wrong about Jimmy, but he went for scorched earth first, imo. In that way the brothers were completely alike.

On 3/10/2020 at 8:05 AM, GussieK said:

Possible unpopular opinion, but I don't hate Jimmy/Saul for throwing the bowling balls.  I just see it as more insight into his pitiful condition.  He is one of my all-time favorite troubled characters.  I have lots of sympathy for him.  Credit to the writers and Odenkirk. 

I don't either. I think it was stupid, but I don't clutch my pearls about it. I was more offended by the bottle throwing.

On 3/10/2020 at 9:30 AM, Bannon said:

Sure it's a dick move by Jimmy, but being a dick is only occasionally rational; it's not that Howard is responsible for Chuck's much more awful (towards Jimmy) behavior, but Chuck's dead, and Howard's not, and Jimmy's rage is not a logical creature.

This.

On 3/10/2020 at 11:51 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

It's only my opinion, but I think that the interpretation that Gus keeps finding fault with Lyle in order to give himself an alibi (despite the fact that he told Lyle a couple of times that he could leave and seemed intent on doing the job himself) misses the point that I think the writers were trying to show us, which is that the normally cool-as-a-cucumber boss Gus was so beside himself with anxiety, he kept finding fault with the faultless Lyle.

Agreed.
 

48 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Same here. I also could have done without the extended scene of spitting in the sink.

If I were in a contemplative mood, I could say their alternating spitting in the sink scene was a metaphor of how they both spit on their opportunities and/or jobs with Howard and Mesa Verde.

BTW, I enjoyed seeing the doofuses from 50% Off show up again in a scene that seemed to answer most of the discussion about it (as I recall), and contributed to Saul's story.

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Same here. I also could have done without the extended scene of spitting in the sink.

Yeah, what was up with that?  I hate tooth brushing scenes anyway, and that one was totally unnecessarily.  

[Bryce Lynch]

15 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Yeah, what was up with that?  I hate tooth brushing scenes anyway, and that one was totally unnecessarily.  

I was about to post that I thought that unlike the toothbrushing and spitting scenes in the Episode 4:7 montage, which helped show that they were drifting apart over the course of about 6 months, this spitting was gratuitous and pointless.

But, then I rewatched both scenes.  I think that the fact that they were brushing their teeth together again signals that they were very close again and that Kim is embracing Saul Goodman, not rejecting him.

Well, that and the shot of them lying in bed naked together just before brushing.:)

 

[Ohwell]

Perhaps that's why the tooth brushing scene was in there, but my point was that it was gross and unnecessary.  The shot of them lying in bed was enough to show that they got back together.

[Bryce Lynch]

24 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Perhaps that's why the tooth brushing scene was in there, but my point was that it was gross and unnecessary.  The shot of them lying in bed was enough to show that they got back together.

I understand where you are coming from.  But, we BCS fans love us some call backs. 🙂

[Ailianna]

People sleeping together isn't necessarily indicative of emotional closeness.  The little day to day rituals are more about the way people weave their lives together.  Sex is just weaving bodies together.  These writers/actors/directors are certainly capable of showing physical closeness that is indicative of emotional distance.  I think both scenes were brief, not overly long, and showed that their lives are coming into sync again on multiple levels.

[Ohwell]

I don't need to see people spitting out toothpaste together to show how close they are.

[PeterPirate]

3 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

If I were in a contemplative mood, I could say their alternating spitting in the sink scene was a metaphor of how they both spit on their opportunities and/or jobs with Howard and Mesa Verde.

I think it's a combination of showing they are getting along well, and also a metaphor for how they are spitting on the world together.  

[Pike Ludwell]

3 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I don't need to see people spitting out toothpaste together to show how close they are.

Come on. People love to see close ups of other people brushing and spitting. And also they love to hear the magnified eating and chewing sounds the BCS sound people throw in (never heard that on BB).  Never mind that people have hated that for centuries. Now it is all the fashion! And in the meantime, we are due for some vomiting this season! People love seeing that stuff. NOT.

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

11 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

If I were in a contemplative mood, I could say their alternating spitting in the sink scene was a metaphor of how they both spit on their opportunities and/or jobs with Howard and Mesa Verde.

I think it's a combination of showing they are getting along well, and also a metaphor for how they are spitting on the world together.  

And/or the prolonged, gross spitting was supposed to show how they don’t hide from each other the gross stuff they both do to survive, and yet they don’t look at each other doing it either. 

[Pooky]

Hi all long time watcher first time poster... I definately thought Fring was trying to establish an alibi with getting his worker to clean and he took pleasure in having power over that while awaiting that phone call. Im starting to think Kim will be disbarred or come to death in foul play. I just watched the first episode again and it was very interesting, he was trying to protect Chuck from being used by the Company and then he got told HHM had a problem with his business card etc  JMM and that he shouldnt use those initials was like saying he couldn't use his own name, makes me think this is how Saul evolved... and also Chuck said make your own name don't ride on others coat tails.... 

[Bryce Lynch]

39 minutes ago, Pooky said:

Hi all long time watcher first time poster... I definately thought Fring was trying to establish an alibi with getting his worker to clean and he took pleasure in having power over that while awaiting that phone call. Im starting to think Kim will be disbarred or come to death in foul play. I just watched the first episode again and it was very interesting, he was trying to protect Chuck from being used by the Company and then he got told HHM had a problem with his business card etc  JMM and that he shouldnt use those initials was like saying he couldn't use his own name, makes me think this is how Saul evolved... and also Chuck said make your own name don't ride on others coat tails.... 

I still can't imagine why Fring would need an alibi.  He is not a suspect in anything and won't be until Season 4 of Breaking Bad.

I am not sure how much Jimmy was trying to "protect" Chuck from HHM and how much he was trying to stick it to Howard, because he thought Howard was the one who blocked him from being an attorney there.

Now, maybe Jimmy convinced himself that HHM was taking advantage of Chuck.  But, it was obvious that he was still highly valued and respected there.  Chuck continuing to be a senior partner was what he wanted and helped maintain the value of the firm that he owned a major share of.

If Jimmy was really looking out for Chuck, he probably would have tried ro negotiate a bigger stipend, as opposed to trying to force HHM to buy out Chuck, when Chuck clearly did not want that.

 

[qtpye]

16 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Same here. I also could have done without the extended scene of spitting in the sink.

Agree. Gus was one of my favorite characters in BB because of his complex nature and his intelligence. So far this season, he has spent most of his time in semi-darkness while looking off into the distance. I hope that there is a greater role for him this season and, if so, it needs to develop quickly.

Note to Lyle: run...there are plenty of fast-food establishments that need a conscientious manager.

I love Jimmy but I don’t love his tendency to be a petulant jerk. I can accept that his feelings about Howard are complicated. However, politely declining the job offer and walking out on lunch would have been the more mature way to go. Sigh...but that’s not him...

An excellent observation. It really makes me reflect back on poor Gene and his lonely nights in Omaha. He had a choice and he chose poorly.

I’m not enjoying it as much either. Kim is my favorite character, too, and I’m growing impatient with her. While I don’t think that she will be physically harmed, she needs to tone down her self-destructive tendencies. I need to believe that she is a smart, savvy woman that will walk away from Jimmy, Mesa Verde and everything else that is destroying her self-respect and common sense.

Mike...I’m getting tired of his journey. There had to be a better way.

Thrilled to have Hank and Steve back. Dean Norris is an incredible presence.

 

12 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I was about to post that I thought that unlike the toothbrushing and spitting scenes in the Episode 4:7 montage, which helped show that they were drifting apart over the course of about 6 months, this spitting was gratuitous and pointless.

But, then I rewatched both scenes.  I think that the fact that they were brushing their teeth together again signals that they were very close again and that Kim is embracing Saul Goodman, not rejecting him.

Well, that and the shot of them lying in bed naked together just before brushing.:)

 

 

11 hours ago, Ailianna said:

People sleeping together isn't necessarily indicative of emotional closeness.  The little day to day rituals are more about the way people weave their lives together.  Sex is just weaving bodies together.  These writers/actors/directors are certainly capable of showing physical closeness that is indicative of emotional distance.  I think both scenes were brief, not overly long, and showed that their lives are coming into sync again on multiple levels.

 

1 hour ago, Pooky said:

Hi all long time watcher first time poster... I definately thought Fring was trying to establish an alibi with getting his worker to clean and he took pleasure in having power over that while awaiting that phone call. Im starting to think Kim will be disbarred or come to death in foul play. I just watched the first episode again and it was very interesting, he was trying to protect Chuck from being used by the Company and then he got told HHM had a problem with his business card etc  JMM and that he shouldnt use those initials was like saying he couldn't use his own name, makes me think this is how Saul evolved... and also Chuck said make your own name don't ride on others coat tails.... 

You guys have brought up such good points . I always thought Jimmy was so lucky to have someone like Kim because she seems like such an awesome person. She is one of the best written characters on television and sometimes it can be hard to find good writing for female characters that does not turn them into unlikable Mary Sues.

It never occurred to me that Kim would love Saul and maybe let him take her down with him. I also don’t understand the reasoning. The choices in life are not as extreme as going along with everything or burning the whole world to the ground. She could simply resign from banking law and then work for a non profit organization that helps the under served. She does not seem to be motivated by money and would not have to betray her client. 

I trust the writers are much smarter than me and this will all make sense later in the  season.

I am also tired of Mike’s angst. The actor who played Werner was adorable but he was nothing more than a plot device to erase the last bits of humanity from Mike, beyond his love for Kaylee.

A man of Mike’s talents could have gotten a legitimate job as a security advisor at a legitimate company. Yes, it would not be drug dealer amounts but it would be a nice living and there would be no danger of the DEA confiscating it.

Edited March 12, 2020 by qtpye

[scenario]

4 minutes ago, qtpye said:

 

 

 

You guys have brought up such good point. I always thought Jimmy was so lucky to have someone like Kim because she seems like such an awesome person. She is one of the best written characters on television and sometimes it can be hard to find good writing for female characters that does not turn them into unlikable Mary Sues.

It never occurred to me that Kim would love Saul and maybe let him take her down with him. I also don’t understand the reasoning. The choices in life are not as extreme as going along with everything or burning the whole world to the ground. She could simply resign from banking law and then work for a non profit organization that helps the under served. She does not seem to be motivated by money and would not have to betray her client. 

I trust the writers are much smarter than me and this will all make sense later in the  season.

I am also tired of Mike’s angst. The actor who played Werner was adorable but he was nothing more than a plot device to erase the last bits of humanity from Mike, beyond his love for Kaylee.

A man of Mike’s talents could have gotten a legitimate job as a security advisor at a legitimate company. Yes, it would not be drug dealer amounts but it would be a nice living and there would be no danger of the DEA confiscating it.

Mike was a known alcoholic and if they did a thorough check back in Phily, they'd probably find some things to concern him. 

Kim makes perfect sense to me. Many, many people do things that make no sense and are totally self destructive because of love. How many women stay with men who beat them, all the while declaring how much they love them. She loves Saul as much as Jimmy. She loves the fact that he is a sociopath who care's about no one but himself. 

There's emotion and there's logic. Kim is very logical but many of her decisions are not made by the logical side of her brain. (I'm not saying this because she is a women. Jimmy throwing the bowling ball is not exactly a logical decision.)

[shapeshifter]

59 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

1 hour ago, Pooky said:

... I definately thought Fring was trying to establish an alibi with getting his worker to clean and he took pleasure in having power over that while awaiting that phone call.

I still can't imagine why Fring would need an alibi.  He is not a suspect in anything and won't be until Season 4 of Breaking Bad.

Because Gus thinks Lalo would frame him.

But maybe I've just watched too many TV shows in which characters were carefully constructing alibis.

 

 

[Bryce Lynch]

It just occurred to me that Gus making Lyle endlessly scrub the fryer for some supposed contamination is reminiscent of Walt obsessively making Jesse help him remove the contamination, in the lab, in "Fly".  

I wonder if that was intentional.  It could be that Gus, like Walt, became even more OCD than usual while dealing with a very stressful situation.   

In both cases, Jesse and Lyle were told they could leave, but knew they really couldn't.   

[peeayebee]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Because Gus thinks Lalo would frame him.

How would he do that? I just don't see how that would work or why? And how was Gus's making Lyle clean creating an alibi? Gus was at the restaurant. Lyle saw him at the restaurant. What more would he need? 

[PeterPirate]

Kim sending Jimmy to Acker makes no sense to me.  Tucumcari is way out there.  It's closer to Texas than it is to Santa Fe or Albuquerque.  There is no way Kevin and Paige will believe Acker just happened to see one of Saul's TV commercials.  

I suppose it's possible Kevin and Paige don't know Kim and Jimmy are a couple.  As far as I can recall, Jimmy has never met either of them.  

Maybe Kim will tell them that Jimmy has a thing against Mesa Verde because it was involved in Chuck's downfall.   But that doesn't make sense because Paige read the transcript of Jimmy's disbarment hearing and knows Chuck blamed Jimmy for the Mesa Verde debacle.  

I just can't imagine a scenario where Kevin and Paige do not conclude that Kim is screwing them over.  As Vinny Barbarino would say, I'm so confused.

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by PeterPirate

[DangerousMinds]

4 hours ago, scenario said:

Mike was a known alcoholic and if they did a thorough check back in Phily, they'd probably find some things to concern him. 

Kim makes perfect sense to me. Many, many people do things that make no sense and are totally self destructive because of love. How many women stay with men who beat them, all the while declaring how much they love them. She loves Saul as much as Jimmy. She loves the fact that he is a sociopath who care's about no one but himself. 

There's emotion and there's logic. Kim is very logical but many of her decisions are not made by the logical side of her brain. (I'm not saying this because she is a women. Jimmy throwing the bowling ball is not exactly a logical decision.)

I don’t think Saul is a sociopath and I look forward to seeing him try to stick it to the big bank. Any small victory for the little people is fantastic.

[Bannon]

I'll say this much for Howard; he's the only major character at this point (excluding the imperfect, but always endeavoring to be noble Hank) who is trying to become a better human being. Really hope the writers don't punish him for it.

[Bannon]

34 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I don’t think Saul is a sociopath and I look forward to seeing him try to stick it to the big bank. Any small victory for the little people is fantastic.

Yeah, Jimmy/Saul is hugely unethical and immoral at time,  basically all the time now, but he is definitely not a sociopath. He's displayed genuine remorse, sometimes at great personal cost (think about the old lady at Sandpiper) way too frequently to be a sociopath.  His care of Chuck, for years, was not sociopathic in the least.  Sociopaths are very tedious people because they have no inner conflict. Jimmy's frequently been awful but he is conflicted at times as well.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Bannon

[NYCFree]

The stunt Saul pulled is not unheard of in the real trial world. In the version I heard about, the defendant was a red-haired Hasidic man. The defense attorney filled the gallery with red-haired Hasidic men and challenged the eyewitness to pick his client.

Sadly, I have no idea what actually happened with the stunt.

Watching Jimmy descend into Saul was inevitable, watching Kim is heartbreaking.

[DoctorAtomic]

I know it's a stunt, but is it illegal for counsel to do it? Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable. The store owner confirmed it was late at night and he'd been working 11 hours but 'was sure' that he could identify the thief. 

Would it be any different if Saul handed him a picture of 5 people and asked him to identify the thief?

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I know it's a stunt, but is it illegal for counsel to do it? Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable. The store owner confirmed it was late at night and he'd been working 11 hours but 'was sure' that he could identify the thief. 

Would it be any different if Saul handed him a picture of 5 people and asked him to identify the thief?

The main issue is that you're not just testing a witness's reliability, you're deceiving the court by presenting some other person as the defendant. Jimmy was probably savvy enough not to affirmatively identify the guy at his table as his client, but he definitely allowed the judge to believe he was, which is why she was so upset.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Dev F

[Bannon]

At the next trial, whomever is defense counsel, be it Saul or anybody else, is certainly obliged to attempt to get it entered into evidence that the eyewitness misidentified the accused in open court. The judge won't allow it, but that sure presents the basis for appeal, and maybe results in a sweeter plea deal. Just the mistrial might do that. I wonder if an appellate court has ever ruled on such a thing; an aggressive defense counsel obtaining exculpatory testimony in an initial trial, but in a way that produces a mistrial, and then the judge not allowing that evidence in a subsequent trial.

[Starchild]

6 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Kim sending Jimmy to Acker makes no sense to me.

My thought is she wants to force Mesa Verde to accept her recusal so she doesn't have to continue working against Acker.

"Kevin, Paige, I don't know how it happened but Acker has hired my boyfriend. It's a conflict of interest. He is not going to quit, so I am going to have to recuse. One of the associates can take over the lead."

 

11 hours ago, Pooky said:

Im starting to think Kim will be disbarred or come to death in foul play.

She very well might get disbarred but I don't think they'll kill her off, for one very good reason: drama.

Picture it: sometime in the final season, Gene looks up from behind the Cinnabon counter and looks straight into Kim's eyes. Powerful, no? Even better if she actually does get disbarred because of her association with Saul. 

Edited to add: just imagine she feels he's ruined her life, he's just finished dealing with the ABQ cab driver, and suddenly she comes back into his life, spitting mad and looking for revenge lol

Edited March 12, 2020 by Starchild

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Bannon said:

At the next trial, whomever is defense counsel, be it Saul or anybody else, is certainly obliged to attempt to get it entered into evidence that the eyewitness misidentified the accused in open court. The judge won't allow it, but that sure presents the basis for appeal, and maybe results in a sweeter plea deal. Just the mistrial might do that. I wonder if an appellate court has ever ruled on such a thing; an aggressive defense counsel obtaining exculpatory testimony in an initial trial, but in a way that produces a mistrial, and then the judge not allowing that evidence in a subsequent trial.

As I understand it, a lot of mistrials aren't re-prosecuted. My guess is that this one wouldn't be.

[MrWhyt]

15 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Because Gus thinks Lalo would frame him.

Getting Gus arrested would bring too much attention to the whole organization. Lalo wants Gus to lose standing in the cartel, so he hits the one thing that the cartel value Gus for; the money. Once Gus is on the outs with the cartel Lalo and the Salamancas (my new band name) will be free to eliminate him and have the meth business to themselves.

As others have pointed out, Gus was obsessing over the fryer cause he needed something to obsess about other than losing his money. It was a sign that the normally calm and cool and in control Gus was anxious about things.

Edited March 13, 2020 by MrWhyt

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

My thought is she wants to force Mesa Verde to accept her recusal so she doesn't have to continue working against Acker.

"Kevin, Paige, I don't know how it happened but Acker has hired my boyfriend. It's a conflict of interest. He is not going to quit, so I am going to have to recuse. One of the associates can take over the lead."

I expect Kevin and Paige will see right through that smokescreen.  I also think it's a little OOC for Kim to think they wouldn't do so.  One way or another, I think Kim has ended her days as a corporate attorney. 

And, of course, Acker has Jimmy for an attorney.  Hilarity ensues.

[Bryce Lynch]

20 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I don’t think Saul is a sociopath and I look forward to seeing him try to stick it to the big bank. Any small victory for the little people is fantastic.

I think the term sociopath gets thrown around way too much.  But, Saul is a devious, diabolical person capable of harming others for fun, revenge or profit.  

Remember, in a short time he will matter of factly suggest shivving Badger in the chow line and sending Hank "on a trip to Belize" as solutions to get rid of Walt's problems.  I tend to think this was not the first time he suggested such solutions to a client.  

Sociopath or not, Saul Goodman is a very evil and dangerous person.   

[Bryce Lynch]

12 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

I expect Kevin and Paige will see right through that smokescreen.  I also think it's a little OOC for Kim to think they wouldn't do so.  One way or another, I think Kim has ended her days as a corporate attorney. 

And, of course, Acker has Jimmy for an attorney.  Hilarity ensues.

We'll see.  I tend to think the writers have come up with some way to make it plausible that Kevin and Paige wouldn't know that Kim was conspiring with Saul to backstab them, though I have no idea how.

I can't see them trying to hide their relationship, as the attorneys at S&C, who also deal with MV, know they are a couple.   As close as Kim works with MV, and particularly with Paige, it would be hard to believe nobody there knows she is in a relationship with Jimmy/Saul.  

They will probably come up with some way to hide Saul's involvement from MV.  

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

We'll see.  I tend to think the writers have come up with some way to make it plausible that Kevin and Paige wouldn't know that Kim was conspiring with Saul to backstab them, though I have no idea how.

I can't see them trying to hide their relationship, as the attorneys at S&C, who also deal with MV, know they are a couple.   As close as Kim works with MV, and particularly with Paige, it would be hard to believe nobody there knows she is in a relationship with Jimmy/Saul.  

They will probably come up with some way to hide Saul's involvement from MV.  

I see this as a point where the fact that Jimmy practices law under a new name comes in. S&C know him as Jimmy McGill, as (probably) does anyone who may have heard of him at Mesa Verde. Saul Goodman, they haven't heard of.

[Milburn Stone]

The extent to which I love this show while not fully understanding it can be summed up by my confession that I didn't realize Gus was creating an alibi.

When Howard courted Jimmy, I felt like there was a flicker in Jimmy of "that would be a really good gig; sadly, the drug lords would kill me." Another step along the way of his realization that he can't get out, so he might as well go all in.

[BC4ME]

On 3/12/2020 at 10:47 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

It just occurred to me that Gus making Lyle endlessly scrub the fryer for some supposed contamination is reminiscent of Walt obsessively making Jesse help him remove the contamination, in the lab, in "Fly".  

I wonder if that was intentional.  It could be that Gus, like Walt, became even more OCD than usual while dealing with a very stressful situation.   

In both cases, Jesse and Lyle were told they could leave, but knew they really couldn't.   

This! This was exactly what I was thinking when I saw it. 

I've probably seen the full BB at least four times, but I've only been able to watch the fly episode once, and that was on second or third viewing of there entire series. My daughter made me watch it then. It was the only episode I ever skipped. I had the same uncomfortable feeling during Gus' fryer scrub obsession. I'm not sure why but it stands out to me.

[sistermagpie]

28 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

The extent to which I love this show while not fully understanding it can be summed up by my confession that I didn't realize Gus was creating an alibi.

 

You may have been right in not understanding that!

[Joimiaroxeu]

Public fenders. They're free, man!

I think Gus was using Lyle both as an alibi and as a restraint. It seemed he was struggling to have to sit there waiting for the phone call. Lyle gave him an easy excuse.

What was the ballpoint pen thing Saul did with Mr. Acker's gate? Was that to avoid leaving fingerprints?

Visual aids. Oy, I hope that wasn't an actual photograph of said act of bestiality, though I think back then it was probaby easier to find that kind of stuff on the internet. In the earlier days it was pretty much like the wild west.

Saul must've assumed Howard didn't have security cameras outside his house. (Or maybe home security systems that could record movement weren't as common then?)

Quote

It is simply unpossible that she referred Saul to the case without understanding he would deal unethically with the situation.

Yep. She basically contracted the job out since she couldn't do more herself without risking exposure and firing from her job.

Quote

They will probably come up with some way to hide Saul's involvement from MV.

I think this too. They'll hide it until there's an opportune time to reveal it. Kind of like the bait and switch Saul did in court.

[scenario]

7 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Public fenders. They're free, man!

I think Gus was using Lyle both as an alibi and as a restraint. It seemed he was struggling to have to sit there waiting for the phone call. Lyle gave him an easy excuse.

What was the ballpoint pen thing Saul did with Mr. Acker's gate? Was that to avoid leaving fingerprints?

Visual aids. Oy, I hope that wasn't an actual photograph of said act of bestiality, though I think back then it was probaby easier to find that kind of stuff on the internet. In the earlier days it was pretty much like the wild west.

Saul must've assumed Howard didn't have security cameras outside his house. (Or maybe home security systems that could record movement weren't as common then?)

Yep. She basically contracted the job out since she couldn't do more herself without risking exposure and firing from her job.

I think this too. They'll hide it until there's an opportune time to reveal it. Kind of like the bait and switch Saul did in court.

That was back in the day where camera's were attached to vhs tapes. Many stores had them as we saw in an earlier year's episode but homes usually did not. The tapes usually ran on a 12 hour cycle and had to be replaced every few months. They were a pain that wasn't worth it. 

[Bryce Lynch]

On 3/10/2020 at 1:10 PM, Eulipian 5k said:

Lyle IIRC was the PH worker who commented when the Salamancas, incl Hector, came to the Pollos Hermanos to speak to Gus. Wasn't that in Breaking Bad? That's when Gus  had to give a speech to the workers; I think they all got the day off. Back then people were worried Lyle was due for a trip to Belize, lol.

The only time Hector was in LPH was in BCS.  He was already in wheelchair in BB.   

It was in BCS Episode 3:4 when Hector, Nacho and the Arturo came showed up at LPH.  Lyle stood up to Hector pretty well, and tried to keep him from smoking his cigar and going into the employee's only  area.  Hector ignored him, but seemed impressed with him having the balls to try to stop him and patted him on the back.  

Fring arrived back from the Fire Station to find all the customers gone and Hector and his guy basically holding his staff captive.  When Fring sent the staff home, Lyle hesitated and asked Fring if he wanted him to stay or to call someone.  Fring told him everything was fine and to go home.  Lyle is a brave lad.  

In BB, there was an unnamed female manager at LPH who appeared in 3 episodes.  In one episode, she was concerned with Marco and Leonel sitting in a booth for hours, but Fring said it was OK.  

 

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

You may have been right in not understanding that!

Right or wrong, I also don't understand the "alibi" angle.  Then again, Gus is a drug kingpin and I'm not.   

 

4 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I see this as a point where the fact that Jimmy practices law under a new name comes in. S&C know him as Jimmy McGill, as (probably) does anyone who may have heard of him at Mesa Verde. Saul Goodman, they haven't heard of.

That's a good point, although I don't think the subterfuge will last for long.  The name "Saul Goodman" will be known to anyone who watches cable TV.  If Saul files a court motion, a copy is bound to find its way to S&C, and the jig will be up.    

 

18 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Saul must've assumed Howard didn't have security cameras outside his house. (Or maybe home security systems that could record movement weren't as common then?)

I don't think Jimmy cared if he was caught on a security camera.  He was sending a message to Howard and he wanted Howard to know who was sending it.  I think he also presumed, rightly, that Howard wouldn't call the cops on him.  The scene ends with Howard merely turning off the car alarm.   

[peeayebee]

41 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

What was the ballpoint pen thing Saul did with Mr. Acker's gate? Was that to avoid leaving fingerprints?

He was just opening the gate from the outside, similarly to how Kim did it with a piece of wood (IIRC).

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

That's a good point, although I don't think the subterfuge will last for long.  The name "Saul Goodman" will be known to anyone who watches cable TV.  If Saul files a court motion, a copy is bound to find its way to S&C, and the jig will be up.

Oh it won't, everyone gets their consequences on this show.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

That's a good point, although I don't think the subterfuge will last for long.  The name "Saul Goodman" will be known to anyone who watches cable TV.  If Saul files a court motion, a copy is bound to find its way to S&C, and the jig will be up.    

 

Yeah, I can't believe Kim's plans have anything to do with people not knowing who Saul is and who he is to her. Not only is not simply not a secret at all, but you don't hire Saul Goodman to be a lawyer on the sly. Even his suits are loud--intentionally. And his first move was to hand someone a picture of a guy fucking a horse.

Whatever she's asking him to do, it's not keep quiet.

[tennisgurl]

Thats a strike for Mr. Goodman! Followed by a Seven-Ten Split! 

There is a whole lot going on here, but I love that Kim did end up being concerned about those beer bottles. She might like to walk on the wild side from time to time, but she hasn't fully broken bad yet. Its really sad watching her trying so hard to help someone who clearly doesent want to be helped, even if it ends up hurting the career she has tried so hard to build up. 

Really, thats kind of the show/franchise itself, especially shown with Jimmy turning down the comfortable job with Howard (Howard!) to keep turning into Saul, and Mike wandering through that crappy neighborhood knowing that he will get beaten badly at best, and maybe killed. People making these self destructive choices even if its not in their best interest, because they feel like they have gone too far or trying to justify their choices, even as we can see their tragic fall coming from a mile away. Never the less, they just keep heading towards that ledge. 

A part of me would love to see Jimmy working for Howard, and i do think that Howard is a decent person, but I can see why that would have been a seriously messed up place for Jimmy to be. Its the house that Chuck built, and thats not the place he wants to be. The bowling ball might have been a bit much though...

Plus, Jimmy loves the drama, and loves the chaos, and I dont think he could get that at a big fancy law firm. Which is also a consistent thread throughout the franchise. People try to find something exciting and do something they know if wrong for the rush or the momentary perks, only for it to end in to tragedy when the inevitable consequences hit them.

You know Lyle, that Arbys across the street is looking pretty good, wouldn't you say?

Edited March 13, 2020 by tennisgurl

[shapeshifter]

On 3/12/2020 at 4:41 PM, Bannon said:

At the next trial, whomever is defense counsel, be it Saul or anybody else, is certainly obliged to attempt to get it entered into evidence that the eyewitness misidentified the accused in open court. The judge won't allow it, but that sure presents the basis for appeal, and maybe results in a sweeter plea deal. Just the mistrial might do that. I wonder if an appellate court has ever ruled on such a thing; an aggressive defense counsel obtaining exculpatory testimony in an initial trial, but in a way that produces a mistrial, and then the judge not allowing that evidence in a subsequent trial.

I am 95% sure I've seen an episode of L&O in which this is at least discussed, if not done.

 

7 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

this as a point where the fact that Jimmy practices law under a new name comes in. S&C know him as Jimmy McGill, as (probably) does anyone who may have heard of him at Mesa Verde. Saul Goodman, they haven't heard of.

Yes, at least from a literary standpoint it makes sense to fully utilize the name change from which the show's title is derived.
But if the writers (VG & co.) don't want Kevin to find out about Kim sicking Jimmy/Saul on the Acker situation and for the associated drama from that discovery to ensue, it might be just that Jimmy works his silver-tongued magic to get Acker to comply. If so, Acker's future well-being might depend upon whether Kim is still sympathetic to his situation, or if she's angry at him for the way he dissed her sincere efforts to help him. I assume Kim still sympathizes with Acker based upon her last effort to get Kevin to relocate the project. Hmmm...I wonder if her bringing that up was laying the groundwork for whatever Jimmy is doing. 

 

[scenario]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I am 95% sure I've seen an episode of L&O in which this is at least discussed, if not done.

 

Yes, at least from a literary standpoint it makes sense to fully utilize the name change from which the show's title is derived.
But if the writers (VG & co.) don't want Kevin to find out about Kim sicking Jimmy/Saul on the Acker situation and for the associated drama from that discovery to ensue, it might be just that Jimmy works his silver-tongued magic to get Acker to comply. If so, Acker's future well-being might depend upon whether Kim is still sympathetic to his situation, or if she's angry at him for the way he dissed her sincere efforts to help him. I assume Kim still sympathizes with Acker based upon her last effort to get Kevin to relocate the project. Hmmm...I wonder if her bringing that up was laying the groundwork for whatever Jimmy is doing. 

 

Are they sure to believe that Kim asked Saul to help? They live together. Maybe she just mentioned the case and her strong headed boyfriend took it upon himself to help. I don't think that Saul would think twice about lying to help her if it didn't hurt him. 

I can see them firing Kim but I can't see her being disbarred. It's not illegal to give a friend the name of a potential client. If she gets involved in one of Jimmy's scams and gets caught, different story. 

[gallimaufry]

On 3/11/2020 at 11:26 PM, Ohwell said:

Yeah, what was up with that?  I hate tooth brushing scenes anyway, and that one was totally unnecessarily.  

It felt like it was a deliberate contrast to previous scenes.  We've seen Jimmy and Kim get up together and get ready for work so many times but this was rougher, uglier, a visual representation of how they're becoming darker characters.

[peeayebee]

I didn't see it that way. I saw it as them meshing better. It was a synchronized brush-and-spit scene.