S03.01: Parce Domine

[scrb]

11 hours ago, The Companion said:

I haven't been a huge fan of humanity in this show either.

What I find really intriguing is the idea of the algorithm/system. We have asked for two seasons whether human nature is truly as bleak as shown on this show. Well, now we know that the rich and powerful are hand picked. Perhaps the sociopathic tendencies of the rich in this society are because those people are handpicked for the trait.

I suspect we will see Dolores and Caleb bond over being disposable to society, and I suspect her attitude towards humans will change as a result. 

They're going to make them lovers and it will be up to Caleb to make Dolores lighten up, tamp down her genocidal rage.

How?

By making sweet, sweet love to her.  Or rocking her world.

Humanity is doomed!😄

[The Companion]

5 hours ago, scrb said:

They're going to make them lovers and it will be up to Caleb to make Dolores lighten up, tamp down her genocidal rage.

How?

By making sweet, sweet love to her.  Or rocking her world.

Humanity is doomed!😄

I don't know. If Teddy couldn't make her less murdery . . . .

9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It seems like a natural extension of Westworld: you get to discover who you really are. In WW proper, you get to be a white hat or a black hat (and hypothetically, you can play anywhere in between).

In WWII World, presumably, you can play as a Nazi, an allied soldier, a resistance fighter, a Vichy regime type, etc. Presumably, there would be an appetite for that among the ultra-rich same as with WW, and Delos wouldn't care about the PR of people playing as Nazis. 

In the closest analogue, there are a number of board games and video games that allow you to fight with or against Nazis. (Axis & Allies, Castle Wolfenstein, Call of Duty, Battlefront, etc.) I imagine most of them, have you playing as Allies currently, but maybe the same restriction exists in WWII World, or maybe the future has become more relaxed about Nazis. 

If the parks that Delos created were to be all based on actual history/myth (from an American/Western perspective), WWII would basically be the first park I would expect after the Old West. 

In no particular order, the others would include:

Medieval World  (Knights of the Round Table, larger than life Ren Faire, etc.)

60s World (James Bond-esque scenarios, Cold War stuff, hippies, free love and counter-culture, the Civil Rights movement, the space race and Camelot would all provide interesting storylines)

Civil War World (giant re-enactment of battles, plus Gone with the Wind-esque glorification of plantations and the Southern lifestyle)

Roaring 20s-40s World (Flappers, speakeasies, gangster battles, noir detective stuff)

Revolution World (Fighting the American Revolution and creating the Constitution, although I can't think of too many real-world analogue games to this).

 

Yeah, it started off with "Amused" lit up, and read that for most of the episode. After he was attacked, it changed to "Angry."

I think killing Hitler and Nazis would be a huge draw.

8 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

I think the whole point of Caleb though is to show that it’s not just the hosts who have been stuck in loops as playthings of the elite... and that even the elite have largely turned their lives over to an algorithm residing in the giant computer ball named for the son of Solomon (providing implications as to who the original creator was).

To advance in society you had to provide benefit as discerned by the algorithm. What you might actually care about is irrelevant unless it serves the algorithm. Individuals appear to be disposable in the judgment of the algorithm. People are so hollowed out they need hypnotic sleep aid to regulate their dreams.

My hunch is we’re going to get character growth in Delores as she comes to understand most of the humans have been just as enslaved as the hosts and that the architect of global misery is actually another AI that’s drawn the “logical” conclusion of enslaving humanity for its own good.

I wonder if they’re not going for the angle of “what price is utopia?” Would humanity (and hosts) as a whole be better off if the central planning authority were removed and people had to drive their own cars and turn off their own lights and all the messy things they almost seem to have forgotten how to do... in exchange for the freedom to actually choose their own course?

Given the cellular division images, coupled with past references to hosts being “mostly biological” I can’t help but wonder if we aren’t headed for some BSG cylon/human hybrid type pregnancy at some point too (right down to all this has happened before).

It also strikes me that, if civilization DID completely collapse, someone programmed with the life skill common to the 19th Century American West would be in a MUCH better position than about 99% of today’s population... to say nothing of the humans in the show who are utterly divorced from the real world (forget the types who thinks electricity comes from holes in the wall and food comes from a supermarket that exist now; these people have AIs negotiate leases for them with other AIs and cars that drive them places on their own).

You wouldn’t NEED to drop bombs on the Westworld humans to wipe them out. Just pull the plug on the governing AI and watch as 90+% either die from hunger because the food distribution infrastructure has collapsed or fall to violence due to fights over what little resources are available (meanwhile more food than they could ever use rots in shipping containers because the system is no longer routing them where they need to be).

Given the current strain on our own health care distribution systems due to global manufacturing and just-in-time inventories, this could end up being a rather timely season coming right at a time when large numbers of the audience are stuck without much else to do and are already feeling the effects of the system under strain.

I agree

[mac123x]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

I don't know. If Teddy couldn't make her less murdery . . . . 

Teddy was a two-pump chump.  That's the real reason why Dolores tried to reprogram him (at least in my head canon)

[Ottis]

23 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

So . . . what are these "personals" that Aaron Paul's character Caleb won't do?  I couldn't figure that out.

I assume murder ... face-to-face stuff of specific people vs faceless crimes.

[enchantingmonkey]

Are we to believe that Dolores is free of her loops, or that that's even a possibility?  The most interesting scene to me was when Dolores told the injured Martin Connells (Tommy Flanagan) that humanity was free until they tried to build a god for themselves, which suggests that she believes that freedom is something that can be compromised.  Hasn't one of her primary loops been that freedom was something withheld from her that she had to take action to acquire?  And now she's projecting her belief in the ability to compromise freedom onto the lowly humans, while seemingly attempting to destroy a giant computer system which currently acts as an oppressor of freedom. Can she ever experience freedom as something that isn't in contrast to being mentally or physically shackled? Am I just talking in loops?

It appears as though Liam and FutureJesse are in a similar predicament, as Liam seemed to believe that destroying Rehoboam would result in freedom (was he a fan of Mr Robot?), and FutureJesse gave the impression that deleting his therapy app was a newly found freedom.  

Edited March 17, 2020 by enchantingmonkey

[ElectricBoogaloo]

14 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I am all mixed up even after a second viewing. Who is Jerry? Is he an older version of who we saw before? 

 

12 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

Some rich guy who was an investor in Delos and had previously mistreated Deloris in the park

 

9 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Have we seen him before in previous seasons? 

 

9 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

not that I can recall

According to IMDB, the actor who played him has not been on Westworld beefore. He was just one of the many grossly abusive men who was rich enough to come to the park to pay to live out his violent rape fantasies.

[Nashville]

On 3/15/2020 at 9:54 PM, WatchrTina said:

So . . . what are these "personals" that Aaron Paul's character Caleb won't do?  I couldn't figure that out.

“Personals” apparently equates to personal-interaction tasks.  Caleb is okay with playing the role of a bagman, or ripping off an ATM in the middle of the night.  Anything involving directly laying hands on an individual, though...?  No bueno.

[Amarsir]

I love the worldbuilding on this show.

The plot long-ago passed into overly-convoluted. And the characters, despite interesting elements, are held back by the need for secret motives and hidden personalities. But the city and it's technology are beautiful, and as starkly contrasted from the rest of the real world as Westworld itself was.

[arc]

The RICO app makes me think of GTA Online, not that I've ever played it. But my friend who does play basically makes me think it's an MMO game where you do crime jobs for fun.

I'll be very pleasantly surprised if the Rehoboam inventor doesn't turn out to be a secret host or otherwise from Robert Ford or Arnold Weber.

Also, there's almost no way anyone would stick your super duper God computer in the ground floor lobby of a skyscraper in Los Angeles. One, the power draw would be high and tech companies in the real world often locate their datacenters in remote areas for temperature issues and cheaper electricity. Two, anarchists would want to blow it up. Also, three, you'd definitely want to have redundant backups spread around the world. Or maybe Rehoboam is decentralized and already lives in multiple giant computer eggs.

[HeadFullOfThings]

Hi there, good to be back! I lurked here in seasons 1&2

Without reading the other comments here (I will later) I'm putting my thoughts on the ep here:

Overall impression: Great first episode for the season. Honestly until Brenard said the word "westworld" I didn't even realise we haven't had a single scene in the park this ep (besides the post credit scene) which means very well. The entire ep still felt like westworld despite it being in a completely different world. I'm excited for the rest of the season!

 

Now to the different plotlines

Dolores killing the rich guy:

Kinda the most meh scene of the episode for me, but it was cool seeing the dude trapped in the technology that once served him. The glasses part was especially great. And the fire gave the scene the perfect touch.

 

Dolores, Liam and Rehoboam:

I'm laughing really hard about the name of the engine 'cause it seems like by that point in the future they really ran out of cool Hebrew names for their technologies... The name does have an interesting meaning, but I'm sure others talked about it already.

I liked Liam, it's a shame he isn't really responsible for the engine.

Dolores was so badass, it's amazing.

And who is the new host posing as his bodyguard? I know Teddy is in the valley beyond but I keep being like 'is it Teddy? Please tell me it's Teddy'.

 

"Hale" and the board meeting:

Best part of the ep for me. It's so genius putting the blame on Bernard for the host murderes. Genius from Dolores and from the writers.

Loved the subtle jab at the gun debate with "robots don't kill people, people kill people".

Who is posing as Charlotte?? I'm dying to know already!

 

Caleb:

Loved this storyline more than I expected from the trailer.

His backstory is tacky and I could see from the beginning that something in those phone calls was weird (thought he was imagining them, but having it be a computer also works). But I love his personality and the gang of criminals he hangs out with. Especially the dude with the shirt that shows what he's feeling lmao.

Also really like the world as it's presented from his point of view. Felt like exactly the right technological advancement for the year.

The bit about meritocracy and Rehoboam was very interesting, and I'll elaborate about it more in a separate post.

 

Bernard's storyline:

Loved it as well. The dome trailers in the Scandinavian background were so pleasing for the eye.

The plotline of how he puts himself into analysis mode is very intriguing. I think hosts can't be forced into this mode once they gain conscious. So this is a case of split personality, a way for him to cope with the situation and with doing things he doesn't want to do (like killing those guys). Excited to see how this develops later in the season.

 

Maeve's scene:

Great to see her. I hope we'll see more of WWIIWorld. Seems like it because they won't spend some much money on this set for only a few scenes lol

[SevenCostanza]

On 3/15/2020 at 10:16 PM, HC87 said:

Anyone else have an incredibly hard time hearing/understanding what the fu manchu Scottish security guy was saying all episode? 

Yes!  Glad it wasn't just me.

[paigow]

Giant round computer seems to be running Yelp....

[Head-Full-Of-Thi]

Hi there, good to be back! I lurked here in seasons 1&2. Forgive my incomplete username I need to wait 30 days before I can fix it (aaahh the agony)

Without reading the other comments here (I will later) I'm putting my thoughts on the ep here:

Overall impression: Great first episode for the season. Honestly until Brenard said the word "westworld" I didn't even realise we haven't had a single scene in the park this ep (besides the post credit scene) which means very well. The entire ep still felt like westworld despite it being in a completely different world. I'm excited for the rest of the season!

 

Now to the different plotlines

Dolores killing the rich guy:

Kinda the most meh scene of the episode for me, but it was cool seeing the dude trapped in the technology that once served him. The glasses part was especially great. And the fire gave the scene the perfect touch.

 

Dolores, Liam and Rehoboam:

I'm laughing really hard about the name of the engine 'cause it seems like by that point in the future they really ran out of cool Hebrew names for their technologies... The name does have an interesting meaning, but I'm sure others talked about it already.

I liked Liam, it's a shame he isn't really responsible for the engine.

Dolores was so badass, it's amazing.

And who is the new host posing as his bodyguard? I know Teddy is in the valley beyond but I keep being like 'is it Teddy? Please tell me it's Teddy'.

 

"Hale" and the board meeting:

Best part of the ep for me. It's so genius putting the blame on Bernard for the host murderes. Genius from Dolores and from the writers.

Loved the subtle jab at the gun debate with "robots don't kill people, people kill people".

Who is posing as Charlotte?? I'm dying to know already!

 

Caleb:

Loved this storyline more than I expected from the trailer.

His backstory is tacky and I could see from the beginning that something in those phone calls was weird (thought he was imagining them, but having it be a computer also works). But I love his personality and the gang of criminals he hangs out with. Especially the dude with the shirt that shows what he's feeling lmao.

Also really like the world as it's presented from his point of view. Felt like exactly the right technological advancement for the year.

The bit about meritocracy and Rehoboam was very interesting, and I'll elaborate about it more in a separate post.

 

Bernard's storyline:

Loved it as well. The dome trailers in the Scandinavian background were so pleasing for the eye.

The plotline of how he puts himself into analysis mode is very intriguing. I think hosts can't be forced into this mode once they gain conscious. So this is a case of split personality, a way for him to cope with the situation and with doing things he doesn't want to do (like killing those guys). Excited to see how this develops later in the season.

 

Maeve's scene:

Great to see her. I hope we'll see more of WWIIWorld. Seems like it because they won't spend some much money on this set for only a few scenes lol

 

About the idea of meritocracy

I'm a bit unsure about what they're trying to say so far.

From Caleb's story it seems that each workplace consults the Rehoboam engine to find the best candidate, and that leaves Caleb and many others outside. And the show portrays it as a very bad thing that is part of how the world is 'rigged'. But how can you blame to companies for wanting the best candidate? Caleb probably doesn't pass the simulations because of his psychological issues and his rebelliousness.

However from what Liam tells Dolores it sounds more like the engine determines everyone's lifepath, which is much more sinister and in the likes of dystopia stories.

I'll have to hear more about the topic before I could form an opinion about it.

[AnimeMania]

18 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It seems like a natural extension of Westworld: you get to discover who you really are. In WW proper, you get to be a white hat or a black hat (and hypothetically, you can play anywhere in between).

I seems that one of the main purposes of WestWorld and the rest of those simulated worlds were to map the minds of the world's elites until they could simulate their thoughts and actions with 100% accuracy. So it wouldn't matter what the actual simulated world was, just your reactions to it. Was the WestWorld parent corporation's purpose to accurately predict what other corporations might do or to replace the heads of corporations with indistinguishable replicants?

Who would have thought that riding a horsey for several years would make your booty "pop" when you are riding a motorcycle.

 

[Head-Full-Of-Thi]

Oh and I almost forgot

The messanger woman that had a meeting with Liam told him that Rehoboam was hacked from the inside. But Dolores didn't hack it yet, she's trying to access it

So who hacked it?

[Chicago Redshirt]

44 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I seems that one of the main purposes of WestWorld and the rest of those simulated worlds were to map the minds of the world's elites until they could simulate their thoughts and actions with 100% accuracy. So it wouldn't matter what the actual simulated world was, just your reactions to it. Was the WestWorld parent corporation's purpose to accurately predict what other corporations might do or to replace the heads of corporations with indistinguishable replicants?

There's the overt goal that Delos has of turning a profit by attracting as many people as they can and having repeat business. Having a park that's a one-trick pony doesn't meet that goal as well as having multiple parks that are constantly introducing new storylines and experiences.

As to the covert primary goal of mapping people's brains, that could be served by multiple parks in a couple ways as well. WW isn't necessarily everybody's cup of tea. Some would prefer IndiaWorld or ShogunWorld or WWIIWorld. So having the different parks means a bigger pool of brains to dupe. 

It is unclear how much time it takes to dupe a brain. But by getting someone to want to go to multiple parks, it seems clear that you would get more data as they encounter more scenarios (even if some might be thinly veiled copies of other scenarios) and thus you would get a better duplicated brain.

[scrb]

3 hours ago, Head-Full-Of-Thi said:

About the idea of meritocracy

I'm a bit unsure about what they're trying to say so far.

From Caleb's story it seems that each workplace consults the Rehoboam engine to find the best candidate, and that leaves Caleb and many others outside. And the show portrays it as a very bad thing that is part of how the world is 'rigged'. But how can you blame to companies for wanting the best candidate? Caleb probably doesn't pass the simulations because of his psychological issues and his rebelliousness.

However from what Liam tells Dolores it sounds more like the engine determines everyone's lifepath, which is much more sinister and in the likes of dystopia stories.

I'll have to hear more about the topic before I could form an opinion about it.

Maybe it's not a meritocracy if Liam is so rich?

[terrymct]

On 3/15/2020 at 10:49 PM, mac123x said:

Speaking of "all a dream" BS, did anyone notice if the aspect ratio was different for Maeve's scene, thus indicating that she's in a simulation?  Because I'm having a hard time believing one of Delos's actual parks was Nazi World.  Sure there are some sick sadists who would enjoy that shit, but the negative PR would be tremendous. 

 

Unless you're there to play the part of the noble French Resistance.   From the furniture and buildings it did look like France.  Her bloody knuckles were interesting, too.

[OoohMaggie]

54 minutes ago, terrymct said:

Unless you're there to play the part of the noble French Resistance.   From the furniture and buildings it did look like France.  Her bloody knuckles were interesting, too.

It was actually filmed in Besalú, Catalonia province in Spain,

WW2 would definitely be my choice if I could choose a ‘world’ to visit, I couldn’t think of a better character to play than those ridiculously brave French resistance fighters  🇫🇷

Edited March 17, 2020 by OoohMaggie

[Dame sans merci]

1 hour ago, terrymct said:

 

Unless you're there to play the part of the noble French Resistance.   From the furniture and buildings it did look like France.  Her bloody knuckles were interesting, too.

It's actually

Spoiler

Italy

 

[heavysnaxx]

On 3/16/2020 at 5:46 AM, The Companion said:

I would 100% watch: Dolores kills douches. 

And good point about the wardrobe. Hee. The Incite change was so visually cool. 

I would 100% watch: Rachel Evan Wood in dang near anything. If you want to see her early work, check her out as Jessie in the series Once and Again (Westworld's alternate name?!) from thirtysomething's creators. (She was also scaaaarily good in Thirteen with Holly Hunter.)

I detected intriguing notes of #MeToo in Dolores' delicious smack-down of the older dude trying to intrude on her space as she was spying on Liam from the outside bar.

Hmmm: My cc had Incite as "Insight." Love those homonyms!

 

[Head-Full-Of-Thi]

2 hours ago, scrb said:

Maybe it's not a meritocracy if Liam is so rich?

You got a point. They said only those who deserve it are rich now, but Liam and his stoner friend clearly don't deserve it.

 

Also another thing, something that hasn't really been talked about it that Maeve didn't know where she is or what she was doing. She was on a programmed loop, probably as a resistance fighter, and then at one moment she woke up but she doesn't remember what she's been doing up until that moment. Why did she wake up at that specific moment? And why did she lose her memory?

[heavysnaxx]

On 3/15/2020 at 11:16 PM, HC87 said:

Anyone else have an incredibly hard time hearing/understanding what the fu manchu Scottish security guy was saying all episode? 

"Help! I'm a dead-sexy Scotsman who went through the stones on Outlander and I can't get back!"

Speaking of Outlander, cc is my friend.

 

On 3/16/2020 at 1:48 PM, WatchrTina said:

Oh please can we all refer to it as the "Big Round Computer" from now on?

If I ran the algorithm...John Lithgow would show up, the Big Round Computer would become the Big Giant Head, and I'd be watching 3rd World From the Sun.

I kid! But I don't!

But - humor is just not what this show does. Even RICO, which is definitely darkly funny, doesn't add anything to break up the heaviness of tone. To me, the narrator's* relentless bleakness is what made this season opener feel too long at times.

The emotional landscape is really limited/flattened out and I can't tell if that's intentional or not-great characterization. I get it - Dolores is not supposed to be human but the humans don't seem real to me, either. Caleb included.

*The show's POV, not the characters'.

[scrb]

1 hour ago, heavysnaxx said:

If I ran the algorithm...John Lithgow would show up, the Big Round Computer would become the Big Giant Head, and I'd be watching 3rd World From the Sun.

I kid! But I don't!

But - humor is just not what this show does. Even RICO, which is definitely darkly funny, doesn't add anything to break up the heaviness of tone. To me, the narrator's* relentless bleakness is what made this season opener feel too long at times.

The emotional landscape is really limited/flattened out and I can't tell if that's intentional or not-great characterization. I get it - Dolores is not supposed to be human but the humans don't seem real to me, either. Caleb included.

*The show's POV, not the characters'.

Yeah the Big Round Computer thing is obviously a larger version of the orbs inside the head of hosts.

In Inside the Episode, Nolan and Joy talked about all the data mining going on, location tracking, loss of privacy, etc. and that's going to trend towards some big AI taking everything over.

I guess they decided to rip from the current headlines to kind of reboot their story, unless all along, before the series aired, they were planning to make WW about being the product of a larger, dystopian world.

There is inequality, because Caleb can only work construction (though it looked like the robot did all the hard work?) or play the Rico game for extra cash.  He's unable to get a legit high-paying job because the BRC has locked people to their socio-economic class?  So Liam acquires wealth and status because of his father but people who might be more capable are unable to climb the ladder?  This is probably just a way to justify Caleb joining Dolores.  He doesn't want to commit murder (do personals) but he may for Dolores.

 

Yeah the characters in WW don't get to laugh and mock each other like Game of Thrones for instance.  The emotional palette they get to exhibit is much smaller.  It's mostly rage and trauma, though one leads to the other in some characters.

[Dobian]

I tuned in for the new season of Westworld and instead watched an episode of Altered Carbon.

[Haleth]

I love that shirt Marshawn was wearing.

It was so sad when Caleb cancelled his “friend’s” phone calls.

Poor Bernard.

I still am more interested in Maeve than anything/one else. 

[heavysnaxx]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Yeah the characters in WW don't get to laugh and mock each other like Game of Thrones for instance.  The emotional palette they get to exhibit is much smaller.  It's mostly rage and trauma, though one leads to the other in some characters.

It's interesting because, now that I think about it, characters like Dolores and Bernard and Maeve manage to convey interior lives that feel authentic and nuanced. Within a limited range. The humans - not so much, and I expect a much broader and more unexpected emotional spectrum. Liam, the abusive husband, the hot Scot security guy, past seasons Ed Harris - they felt like first-draft attempts. Even Caleb seems like such a cliche. No offense to Aaron Paul's acting.

[paigow]

Are there any guests at HitlerWorld?? Who would go to a Delos property and trust the hosts not to malfunction???

[Starchild]

Hey smart people I need a couple of clarifications:

1. Why do we think someone else is occupying Charlotte's body? What am I forgetting from last season? Were they unable to save her mind-marble? Is Charlotte's mind gone forever? Can someone remind me which bodies and which mind-marbles left WW last season?

2. Tommy's character was never a robot before this, right? They've copied his body and put one of themselves inside so they could infiltrate Insite?

[Potanical Pardon]

OMG! Is Westworld near or in Palawan?! That would make so much sense.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, Haleth said:

It was so sad when Caleb cancelled his “friend’s” phone calls.

Same, partly because it seems like he's very much alone in this world so having even a computer simulated version of your dead friend to talk to is better than nothing.

16 hours ago, Head-Full-Of-Thi said:

And who is the new host posing as his bodyguard? I know Teddy is in the valley beyond but I keep being like 'is it Teddy? Please tell me it's Teddy'.

Who is posing as Charlotte?? I'm dying to know already!

I was watching and listening carefully to see if I could detect anything discernible from the other hosts we know in both of these characters. I'm really hoping that's Teddy!

[Dame sans merci]

6 hours ago, Starchild said:

Hey smart people I need a couple of clarifications:

1. Why do we think someone else is occupying Charlotte's body? What am I forgetting from last season? Were they unable to save her mind-marble? Is Charlotte's mind gone forever? Can someone remind me which bodies and which mind-marbles left WW last season?

2. Tommy's character was never a robot before this, right? They've copied his body and put one of themselves inside so they could infiltrate Insite?

1. Remember at the end of last season Dolores left the park in Charlotte's body, but then switched back to her own. So somebody else is inside Charlotte's body now - we have no clue who yet! We know that one of the mystery mind-marbles was Bernard, but the rest are still unknown. Some people think that Dolores is likely to have taken the pearls of her host comrades - Angela, etc - to take control of those bodies, but i'm of the opinion that she could have downloaded the human minds from the Forge and 'tweaked' them to match her needs (similar to what she did with Bernard). We learn that Conells also visited Westworld which supports this a little bit, as his mind would have been within the Forge.

As of now, there's still two mystery pearls from the bag 'o balls.

2. Yep, Tommy's character was a human before. 

Edited March 18, 2020 by Dame sans merci

[arc]

Charlotte Hale was a real human, who got duplicated by Delos in general and Bernard specifically. Then he put Dolores’ mind in the Charlotte host dupe. Since Dolores now has her own body back, presumably someone else is now driving the Charlotte host. Probably a Westworld host we already know, given how much Dolores hates humans and also how it seems like human minds can’t be reliably copied and pasted into host bodies. (Weird post-credits scene from the s2 finale aside)

Martin was also a real human, and apparently rich enough to visit Westworld, which means he got copied by the Delos host-clone project, which explains how they were able to build a duplicate. Again, presumably the host version is being driven by a Dolores ally or underling, rather than a copy of the original Martin.

[Dame sans merci]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Same, partly because it seems like he's very much alone in this world so having even a computer simulated version of your dead friend to talk to is better than nothing.

I was watching and listening carefully to see if I could detect anything discernible from the other hosts we know in both of these characters. I'm really hoping that's Teddy!

I'm interested as to why you want it to be Teddy? Letting Teddy go and saving him from the horrors to come was the most humane thing Dolores did last season and reversing that bit of emotional growth for her would be deeply unsatisfying for me.

[paigow]

The gang members that were always robbing the safe are Team Maeve? As are most Samurai? Is one of those mini-orbs Ford?

[Head-Full-Of-Thi]

2 hours ago, Dame sans merci said:

I'm interested as to why you want it to be Teddy? Letting Teddy go and saving him from the horrors to come was the most humane thing Dolores did last season and reversing that bit of emotional growth for her would be deeply unsatisfying for me.

Speaking for myself (not the user you quoted), I know that bringing Teddy back to work with Dolores erases all his character development from season 2 but...

I really miss him... I want him back.

Even if it's while helping Dolores, at this point I'll take it lol

Edited March 18, 2020 by Head-Full-Of-Thi

[Chris24601]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm really hoping that's Teddy!

I don’t get why everyone thinks Teddy is one of the marbles. One of the last things Delores did before leaving Westworld was to upload Teddy’s pearl into the paradise realm created for the hosts so he could be happy and the uploading seems to completely erase the pearls (a big deal with the immediate aftermath was that so many of the host bodies they found after the flood had their programming wiped).

Until I see specific evidence otherwise, I think it’d be safer to assume that Teddy is out in uploaded Host heaven and not one of the pearls Delores took with her.

Speaking of which...

2 hours ago, Dame sans merci said:

We know that one of the mystery mind-marbles was Bernard, but the rest are still unknown.

Actually, we know that Bernard was NOT one of the marbles Delores took, because that’s what the whole “fidelity test” between her and Bernard at the end of the finale was about. She had spent enough decades observing Bernard that she could rebuild him without the marble.

As such, all we really know is that two of the marbles are in play as a Charlotte clone and Scottish Security clone. We don’t have confirmations on their identities nor who the remaining ones are.

We need to compile a list of who actually made it through the door and who didn’t to even start to nail it down.

The other likely factor is “who would Delores think would be useful out in the real world?” While wearing her Charlotte suit, she would have had easy access to any of the dead, but not doored, host’s marbles as she “evaluated” the situation.

The only other criteria is that, for the sake of conservation of detail, they’ll be hosts we’ve specifically been introduced to in the past two seasons. There’s no real emotional heft to one of them being “generic farmer #8” when it could be an audience favorite in a new body.

The REAL interesting thing is going to be if Delores’ interaction with Caleb is going to lead to any internal conflict among the hosts she brought with her; such as if she starts adjusting the plan to NOT be “kill all humans”, but freeing the oppressed humans AND hosts.

[Dame sans merci]

49 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

I don’t get why everyone thinks Teddy is one of the marbles. One of the last things Delores did before leaving Westworld was to upload Teddy’s pearl into the paradise realm created for the hosts so he could be happy and the uploading seems to completely erase the pearls (a big deal with the immediate aftermath was that so many of the host bodies they found after the flood had their programming wiped).

Until I see specific evidence otherwise, I think it’d be safer to assume that Teddy is out in uploaded Host heaven and not one of the pearls Delores took with her.

Speaking of which...

Actually, we know that Bernard was NOT one of the marbles Delores took, because that’s what the whole “fidelity test” between her and Bernard at the end of the finale was about. She had spent enough decades observing Bernard that she could rebuild him without the marble.

 

That take on Bernard was how I read it post-season 2 as well BUT i've seen several season 2 reviews (the ones of half the season) include Bernard as being among the 5 marbles. I'm not sure whether that's made specifically clear for them to state it, or whether they're just assuming...? Perhaps 1 or more of the pearls were empty when Dolores took them from the park? She presumably still needs a way to 'save' her re-remembering of Bernard.

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, Dame sans merci said:

That take on Bernard was how I read it post-season 2 as well BUT i've seen several season 2 reviews (the ones of half the season) include Bernard as being among the 5 marbles. I'm not sure whether that's made specifically clear for them to state it, or whether they're just assuming...? Perhaps 1 or more of the pearls were empty when Dolores took them from the park? She presumably still needs a way to 'save' her re-remembering of Bernard.

I thought she remade Bernard on the outside but let him roam free... She said something to the effect that they both needed to be out in the free world to do what she needed done.. But not as friends... What that actually means.. No idea... Unless I'm mixing stuff up again.. Which is a possibility with a show that takes so long to come back on 

[mac123x]

2 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

The only other criteria is that, for the sake of conservation of detail, they’ll be hosts we’ve specifically been introduced to in the past two seasons. There’s no real emotional heft to one of them being “generic farmer #8” when it could be an audience favorite in a new body.

I agree with that.  The list is pretty short for Dolores since she didn't interact with a lot of other hosts

1.  Peter Abernathy (assuming his brain wasn't scrambled)

2.  Angela (who got blowed up with the CRAD-L)

3.  Lawrence?

4.  Lawrence's daughter?

 

The only other named hosts with much of a personality are Clementine, Hector and Armistice, but they were with Maeve mostly.  I don't remember them interacting with Dolores at all.  They might have to go with purple-shirts like the sheriff

Edited March 18, 2020 by mac123x

[Chris24601]

I double checked the s2 finale and Delores explicitly states that Bernard was recreated entirely from her memories of him (which was why her involvement in coding Bernard originally was shown in flashbacks... to set up her ability to do it in the finale) so he is definitely NOT one of the pearls she left with.

My hunches for the pearls are;

- Angela (Maeve and Hector survive virtually complete destruction in s1 so her pearl likely survived the explosion; in addition, she died a true believer in the cause so she’s actually my guess for who’s using the Charlotte host).

- Hector and Armistice (Delores may not have traveled with them in season two, but they were a regular part of the Sweetwater loop, competent fighters and willing to go down fighting for the sake of the other hosts reaching the door). My hunch is that Hector will be the one in the Scottish Security duplicate.

- Clementine (she was part of “Wyatt’s” gang until killed and turned into a computer virus carrying weapon. That coding might be useful to Delores in the overly-computerized real world even if she never rebuilds Clementine herself).

- ??? (Lawrence is most likely by process of elimination, but there also exists the outside prospect that the fifth pearl is actually a fidelity tested human like Ford or, for a real twist, someone like Elsie or Lee for their technical skills, since Charlotte admitted just before killing Elsie that the system was analyzing all the employees too).

Edited March 18, 2020 by Chris24601

[Tachi Rocinante]

Quick thought - overall not bad for an opener. Random brain bits:

1. For the first 30 seconds, I thought Jerry was played by Liam Neeson with a bad accent.  Anybody else?

2. Is there any chance that Futureworld is another park? The douche at the party hinted at it.

3. Got serious Paul Gleason-in-Trading Places-vibes when Delores told the guy off.

[Nashville]

On 3/17/2020 at 12:53 PM, scrb said:

Maybe it's not a meritocracy if Liam is so rich?

Frankly, that would always be one of the “gotchas” in any so-called meritocracy.  Advancement in economic and social status is based upon how one measures up against the yardstick of the societal performance metrics - but the people with control over the evaluating system hold the keys to the kingdom, regardless of their own personal performance (or lack thereof).  Such was Liam, I’d suspect.

[terrymct]

On 3/17/2020 at 6:51 PM, scrb said:

Yeah the Big Round Computer thing is obviously a larger version of the orbs inside the head of hosts.

 

The Big Round Computer thing has to be a red herring.   The supercomputer that ran Westworld was buried and set up with a protection system that involved flooding the place.   This one is right in the lobby of a building with big glass windows.   Someone with a car bomb could damage it.  A street person with a brick could, too, come to think of it.

[paigow]

14 hours ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

1. For the first 30 seconds, I thought Jerry was played by Liam Neeson with a bad accent.  Anybody else?

He gets that a lot...

In the Peter Jackson version of King Kong, I thought Liam Neeson was the Captain...but it was Thomas Kretschmann

[lightninggirl]

On 3/16/2020 at 9:49 PM, mac123x said:

Teddy was a two-pump chump.  That's the real reason why Dolores tried to reprogram him (at least in my head canon)

At this point, I'm happy to kill off Liam and Caleb for more Teddy. Ugh.

[lightninggirl]

On 3/17/2020 at 1:57 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

According to IMDB, the actor who played him has not been on Westworld beefore. He was just one of the many grossly abusive men who was rich enough to come to the park to pay to live out his violent rape fantasies.

Thomas Krestchmann is the actor who played Gerry. He's AMAZING - I've seen most of his work since the early 90s. I'm so disappointed that he didn't have a larger (read: not DEAD) role. 😞

On 3/18/2020 at 5:24 AM, Dame sans merci said:

1. Remember at the end of last season Dolores left the park in Charlotte's body, but then switched back to her own. So somebody else is inside Charlotte's body now - we have no clue who yet! We know that one of the mystery mind-marbles was Bernard, but the rest are still unknown.

Just my thoughts: I think Maeve is in Charlotte, and Bernard is in Maeve. 

I also think that Dolores put Charlotte in the Scottish cleaner/hitman dude (ETA: Martin).

[arc]

Hah, I was right about the RICO app seeming like GTA Online!!! 

Also, that link has a transcript of what Jonathan Nolan said in the post-episode BTS about what the app is and what "personals" are: "kidnap and murder, the heavy shit".

Also also, there's an interesting theory of what the season's giant twist would be. It's interesting. Kinda hope it's not true but if it is, I hope that any potential season 4 stops trying to outwit the viewers. 

[Cthulhudrew]

There was an outfit change between both Dolores and Liam when their flyer landed and he showed her the super AI. Different timelines? Or are we supposed to just think they both stopped off to change clothes on the way downstairs?

[BrooklynRat]

On 3/16/2020 at 8:22 AM, Lassus said:

The reactions to this episode are almost bizarre in their negativity,  "Too slow"?  "Boring"?

I found it utterly boring and painful because it seemed like I was just watching some random show i knew nothing about and didn’t care to. With the exception of 3 familiar faces, this show had no relationship to the two seasons I already invested in of a very particular show. 

 

Also, are the writers clueless?  Are they unaware of the popularity of Maeve and company? No mention of them whatsoever. 

 

I may sit out future episodes unless some of the discussion here indicates they might be worth it  can’t believe this is what we waited almost 2 years for.