S40.E04: I Like Revenge

[fishcakes]

Rob: I'm going to lie about Adam.
Rob: Adam is talking to me. [true]
Rob: I don't know what to do about it. [true]
Jeremy and Michelle: WE HAVE TO VOTE ADAM OUT.

I felt bad for Adam when he was being obsequious around camp. The coconut soup thing was especially painful. When no one would take any, I was thinking, "just drink the soup before you make Adam cry!" He's like an injured baby bird I want to take care of, but I know I'll regret it because as soon as he gets better he'll start shitting on my car.

Nick was less purple this episode, but I just realized I can't remember much about him from his first season, except that I liked him and that he made a bunch of different alliances and named them. I don't remember his endgame at all. And when I try to think of who's in Yul's alliance, he's the one I blank on. He's just naturally purple, I think, which is not a bad way to be when you're playing in a season filled with Big Dogs.

Is Parvati only 5'3"? That would make Denise just barely 5'0" then, so very much the wrong person to put on the part of the challenge that requires that you leap straight up in the air from a narrow beam.

The EoE thing went on too long, but I liked Amber calling out to Ethan and grabbing his hand when she saw him with Medical. And then Natalie going back, like, "oh um yeah, me too." Very sweet though that they all went back up with him for his last climb. That was a hideous task. I hope they don't make them do anything that grueling again.

[JudyObscure]

45 minutes ago, Daisy said:

 

I even said it in the live thread. No one ever goes after Sandra. Even in Gamechangers - JT legitimately had to push to get people to vote her off. Because Sandra is - for the most part, the "perfect" alliance mate. If she's in your alliance/wants to protect, you she's going to do it. You need recon - Sandra is your girl. She's never gonna be a "threat" to you physically (ever), or in puzzles (ever). and she might win her second ever challenge (if it's endurance).  

and - as people tend to like their meat shields - Sandra's is the best one. Because she's still the ONLY one (until the end of this season) who has won twice. (and if i recall correctly - in both wins never had a vote thrown against her - though she did have votes thrown her way the day she played her idol so maybe an asterisk there).  

 

 

 

 

I honestly don't see how Sandra can be someone who no one ever goes after and a meat shield.  It's impossible to have someone shielding you who no one will ever vote against. The definition of a shield is a person who is likely to be voted out before you.

 On the other hand, I think it's that very  thinking that causes her to keep winning and people to think she's on their side and will always have their back.  She doesn't stand alone at the end of the game if she hasn't voted people out who thought she was their best, most loyal buddy, but it's a lesson her fellow players never seem to learn.  I don't put it down to Sandra's brilliant play so much as  their stupidity.

I go by what I see and hear in the game, not what they say on podcasts, or what the other star-struck castaways believe, or even what I might want to believe.   That's why when Tyson says he can't remember Sophie's name, I believe he can't remember her name.  I don't pretend I can read his mind and find in there that he's making that up for some unfathomable, illogical reason.

[tvgoddess]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm still bored lol.

I enjoyed seeing Natalie once again be bad ass (and everyone comment on how bad ass she is) and Ethan triumph but I still could have done without what felt like a 15 minute EoE segment.

Ironically, this is what I'm bored by. She almost seems too dominant that anyone else would absolutely have no chance in a physical contest against her. Seems more suited for an American Gladiators type show.

[Rachel RSL]

6 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I honestly don't see how Sandra can be someone who no one ever goes after and a meat shield. 

You can easily be both.  (See: Boston Rob)  People would rather be in an alliance with Sandra than go against her and, if she's in your alliance, odds are the other side will be gunning for her before they gun for you.

Just now, tvgoddess said:

She almost seems too dominant that anyone else would absolutely have no chance in a physical contest against her.

But she's kicking ass at the mental tasks too so it's not just that she has a physical advantage.

[Growsonwalls]

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Sandra can be playing for herself and still get along with other people. The people she dislikes, she dislikes and everyone knows it. Think Fairplay and Russell. Everyone knew she didn't like them. Hell, they knew she didn't like them. She was fine with pretty much everyone else on her tribe and I cannot remember anyone saying that Sandra treated them poorly, was mean, or ignored them. I am trying to remember hearing anyone complain about Sandra outside of the game.

Yes, she plays for herself but everyone out there is playing for themselves. The Woo's and Colby's of the world are rare. 99.9% of the players out there are gunning for the money. They might not be as upfront about it but they are not suffering out there to help someone else win.

But that is a far distance from not caring about the other people out there. Sandra is regularly chatting with people, laughing with people, and exchanging quips with people. She seems to be well received by her tribe mates.

I am wondering how Nick is going to play off that Kim vote.

I once talked to Lill from Pearl Islands and she said that Sandra is loud and sassy but you get used to it quickly and she's actually a nice, fun, funny person to have around camp. After the game she's also very nice. 

I have a feeling if Survivor were more like Big Brother and we got to see "live feeds" of the island we'd view players very differently. 

[tvgoddess]

5 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

But she's kicking ass at the mental tasks too so it's not just that she has a physical advantage.

True I guess. Although I don't think she has much competition in that department out on that island to be honest.

I didn't see her play previously and might have seen a fraction of her on TAR so I'm only basing this on the few episodes we've seen thus far.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Nick was less purple this episode, but I just realized I can't remember much about him from his first season, except that I liked him and that he made a bunch of different alliances and named them. I don't remember his endgame at all. And when I try to think of who's in Yul's alliance, he's the one I blank on. He's just naturally purple, I think, which is not a bad way to be when you're playing in a season filled with Big Dogs.

Nick was actually the opposite of purple in David vs. Goliath. In the first episode, he stood out in a bad way, being squirrelly enough that he probably would have been voted out first if Pat hadn't been medevaced. Then he adjusted, made a couple of key early alliances (Mason-Dixon with Christian and Rock Stars with Mike), and got folded into the other alliances that Christian and Mike had. From then on, he straddled the line of "being in charge"/"just being a number don't mind me" very nicely until the end, with some solid immunity wins along the way. And just basically being a friendly guy to have around. It wasn't super flashy, but he was very present throughout that whole season, unlike some other winners who seem to come from nowhere toward the end. 

So far this season, I think he's just been pushed aside by some natural camera magnets, largely due to the fact that his tribe was winning and not going to tribal council. "We can only devote so much time to the winning tribe! Can't waste time focusing on nice, normal Nick when Tony's about to break his neck and Sandra's catching a shark!"

[Rachel RSL]

Based on her previous win, I knew that Natalie was really smart and good at the strategy part of Survivor but I actually had no clue she was such a beast physically. It just makes me even sadder that she was booted so early.

[Wandering Snark]

I miss our annual "discussion" of the chickens as a reward.

[iMonrey]

So who won the fire tokens on Extinction Island? Did all of them win one since they all got their logs moved? I thought they were competing for it. 

Quote

Rob: I'm going to lie about Adam.
Rob: Adam is talking to me. [true]
Rob: I don't know what to do about it. [true]
Jeremy and Michelle: WE HAVE TO VOTE ADAM OUT.

First of all, Rob is a bully. Second of all, Adam is a fool if he didn't immediately go to everyone else and tell them that Rob said outright he'd lie about Adam still working with them, and not to believe it because he was just trying to save himself. 

The Tyson vote was anticlimactic. Underwhelming episode. Ten minutes of people walking up and down a hill. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by iMonrey

[Guest]

Just now, iMonrey said:

So who won the fire tokens on Extinction Island? Did all of them win one since they all got their logs moved? I thought they were competing for it. 

First of all, Rob is a bully. Second of all, Adam is a fool if he didn't immediately go to everyone else and tell them that Rob said outright he'd lie about Adam still working with them, and not to believe it because he was just trying to save himself. 

The Tyson vote was anticlimactic. Underwhelming episode. Ten minutes of people walking up and down a hill. 

I believe they all got a token for completing it, since there would have been no reason for anyone else to finish after Natalie.

And Rob leading Jeremy and Michele to believe that Adam was still trying to talk strategy with him is not evidence of Rob being a bully. It's evidence of Rob playing the game. He wasn't being mean, or intimidating, or saying humiliating things. A bunch of people lied to Tyson and said they were voting for Nick. Are they bullies?

Also, Rob didn't say he was going to lie about Adam to Adam's face, he said it in a confessional. Maybe Adam should have guessed he would do that, but Rob did not tell him outright.

[Rachel RSL]

Agreed. I don’t see how Rob having a conversation where he was a) calm & friendly and b) telling the truth, makes him a bully.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Rachel RSL

[ProfCrash]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I honestly don't see how Sandra can be someone who no one ever goes after and a meat shield.  It's impossible to have someone shielding you who no one will ever vote against. The definition of a shield is a person who is likely to be voted out before you.

 On the other hand, I think it's that very  thinking that causes her to keep winning and people to think she's on their side and will always have their back.  She doesn't stand alone at the end of the game if she hasn't voted people out who thought she was their best, most loyal buddy, but it's a lesson her fellow players never seem to learn.  I don't put it down to Sandra's brilliant play so much as  their stupidity.

I go by what I see and hear in the game, not what they say on podcasts, or what the other star-struck castaways believe, or even what I might want to believe.   That's why when Tyson says he can't remember Sophie's name, I believe he can't remember her name.  I don't pretend I can read his mind and find in there that he's making that up for some unfathomable, illogical reason.

Sandra won two seasons for a reason. Pavarti wanted Sandra out in Heros vs Villians but Russell refused to vote Sandra out because he could not see why anyone would vote for Sandra. Russell spent time telling Sandra how Sandra could not beat him at the final. I think that was one of the funniest scenes ever, Russell telling Sandra she is a goat and Sandra agreeing with him, all while laughing her ass off in a talking head.

She is not a challenge threat so she should be easy to get out. But she gets along with pretty much everyone. She does enough around camp and is entertaining. She can direct a vote, like the Tyson one this week, but never seems to be the one leading the vote. Tyson targeted her first so it is easy enough for her to agree wit Tony and then point to how Tyson targeted her and had friends waiting on the other tribe. And so Tyson goes.

A meat shield that everyone knows needs to go but never seems to go. Unlike Rob and Parvati, Sandra is not even seen as a target in her tribe at the moment. Rob is working hard to keep himself and Parvati safe, and Parvati seems to be fine with letting Rob do the work.

Sandra was actually in a great place in her original tribe. If they had not swapped, Sandra probably would have made the merge.

So yeah, she is a different type of threat. Teflonesque. I doubt she can get to the end because she is a known target and she does suck at challenges. No one is going to want her at final tribal. But she is likely to out last Rob and Parvati.

35 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

So who won the fire tokens on Extinction Island? Did all of them win one since they all got their logs moved? I thought they were competing for it. 

First of all, Rob is a bully. Second of all, Adam is a fool if he didn't immediately go to everyone else and tell them that Rob said outright he'd lie about Adam still working with them, and not to believe it because he was just trying to save himself. 

The Tyson vote was anticlimactic. Underwhelming episode. Ten minutes of people walking up and down a hill. 

How is Rob a bully? I see this regularly and I fail to see any evidence of bullying. I see manipulation and great game play but not bullying.

Adam was not a part of the conversation where Rob says that he and Parvati could lie about Adam working with them and the others would believe it. Adam told Rob and Parvati that he could not work with them or talk to them because the others didn't trust him. Adam has no clue that Rob went and told Jeremy and Michele that Adam was talking to Rob and Parvati again.

[iMonrey]

Quote

And Rob leading Jeremy and Michele to believe that Adam was still trying to talk strategy with him is not evidence of Rob being a bully. 

Also, Rob didn't say he was going to lie about Adam to Adam's face, he said it in a confessional. 

Yes, Rob told Adam to his face he could just lie and tell everyone they were working together anyway. Go back and watch again. It was him, Adam and Parvati on the beach, and Rob suggested they could still work together and flip things, and Adam said he couldn't risk it, and Rob said he could just say they were anyway.

Look, I get there are people out there who love Rob and will never see him as anything other than adorable. Then there are those of us who are never going to see him as anything other than deplorable. We will have to agree to disagree. I have found him distasteful from Day 1 and nothing that has happened since then has changed my opinion of him.

[Nashville]

15 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I can't believe they've saved the patented "remember me? I played Survivor for my mom" Adam confessional for ... him jumping into the water a bunch of times to retrieve a key in a challenge?

Oh, Nick was so charming at tribal council. "Parvati was my high school crush." So glad he was saved.

Gee, now I wonder if *I* was Parvati’s high school crush...

...nah, probably not....

7 hours ago, amazingracefan said:

That seemed an amazingly stupid thing for him to say at tribal.

Don’t quite know if I agree or not.  A player presenting as more of a subservient star-struck fan might be viewed as less of a threat than, say, a past winner operating on an equal strategic footing with everybody else.

 

5 hours ago, himela said:

Good riddance Tyson. Not remembering Sophie's name (who btw won on the first season she played, unlike you SoB) was really disrespectful, but I can't expect more from this moron. I hope I never see or hear you again.

Aw, c’mon, don’t hold back - tell us how you really feel.  😄

 

4 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Michelle is playing a bit tentative and with a bit of a chip on her shoulder. We might not be seeing it but I am sure that it is more noticeable around camp. She has a reason for feeling that way. Rob has more confidence then god and probably could careless that people think that his win was lame. It probably helped her to have that conversation.

Actually, I think the conversation helped Rob just as much as it did Michele.  

You’re right, Michele is playing with a chip on her shoulder - an inferiority complex chip the size of Mount Rushmore.  Michele may not overtly admit it - may deny it, even - but her body language and the way she does talk about her win makes it clear; Michele’s read a ton of SM posts stating she should not have won her season, and deep down she has insecurity born of a sneaky suspicion they might be right.  Hell, I read this sitting on a couch several months and several thousand miles away from the conversation; think Boston Rob missed it in a face-to-face?

And think Michele didn’t feel validated by Rob’s seemingly-casual dismissal of any naysayers to her win - considering said dismissiveness came from a senior player many regard as a member of Survivor’s royalty caste?  The casualness of Rob’s dismissal was key as well - as if Rob himself thought the very notion Michele might not have deserved her win was unworthy of consideration.

Can’t rightly say how Rob truthfully regards Michele - but I’d be pretty sure if Rob somehow miraculously managed to claw his way to F3 and Michele’s on the jury, then he’s got her vote.

 

3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Sandra sits out because she sucks at challenges. It is the reason that people stupidly don't vote her out quickly. She is never going to win an immunity challenge.

Frankly, this is one of the reasons I kinda want to see Sandra sent to EoE; given...

1. Sandra’s absolutely shitty comp record, and...
2. To date the ONLY way to return from Extinction Island is by beating all other EoE occupants in a comp...

...then I more than halfway suspect Sandra’s first act upon hitting the EoE beach will be to raise the flag and get the hell outta there. Sandra’s game is based 100% off a combination of social and strategic, with no physical component; unfortunately (for Sandra), neither social nor strategic previously played any part in the EoE return comp - it was strictly physical.

...wouldn’t it be funny, though, if TPTB changed the EoE return comp format specifically to benefit Sandra - only to have Sandra walk off before she could find out?   😆

(And yeah, I’m sure in such a scenario Production would whisper a little something in Sandra’s ear before she did walk - but it’s an entertaining image anyway....)

 

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

This is the first year I haven't loved the show.

Guess you missed last season, huh. 😉 

[Lamima]

6 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Sarah was shown doing a good amount when she won. She was not that much of a surprise, or I wasn't surprised. She made good connections with people and did a good amount of strategizing. Adam's winning was kind of bleechy but you could see it coming. It wasn't a clear cut win, like Ben's, but it wasn't a surprise. They discussed his Mom's illness far to much that season for him to not win, especially when he finally mentioned it at the final tribal.  I still don't remember Michele's win or much about that season. I have a vague recollection of feeling like it was more an Aubrey loss then a Michele win and then moving on.

It was. That season was hard to keep in the memory bank due to the 2 douche bros, Jason and Scott, and their general grossness and assholeness. Michelle aligned with them. Just hung around while they did their vileness. Aubry gamed hard. She did have old man Joe as a 2nd vote for a while. But she really worked hard being on the bottom a lot due to her nerdiness pretty much. And she kept herself alive. It may have been partly her doings that the douche bros went to Ponderosa...that part I don't remember exactly. I know she was a part of it but not sure if she was the leader of it.  But they went to Ponderosa the bitter vile men that they were and poisoned the jury. That's how little sidekick, hanger on, Michelle won. 

But this season she is doing more...so far. We shall see. She did fall for the God Father's cunning tricks in last night's episode. 

And I agree that Sarah worked for her win and it wasn't a surprise. And Adam's wasn't that shocking either. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Lamima

[Rachel RSL]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Look, I get there are people out there who love Rob and will never see him as anything other than adorable. Then there are those of us who are never going to see him as anything other than deplorable. We will have to agree to disagree. I have found him distasteful from Day 1 and nothing that has happened since then has changed my opinion of him.

As someone who neither loves nor adores Rob (but does enjoy his personality and thinks he's a great player), I can totally understand that he's not everybody's cup of tea.  No law saying that everybody has to like him and there are definitely plenty of people who don't.  But there's a big difference between saying "I think Rob is an asshole and I don't like him" and saying "Rob is a bully". Very big difference. 

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

..then I more than halfway suspect Sandra’s first act upon hitting the EoE beach will be to raise the flag and get the hell outta there.

Nah! No way does this happen.  Has there ever been anything in any of her seasons to indicate that Sandra is a quitter?  I feel like, if anything, we'd get a confessional from her saying something like: "If I can't win Survivor, I will be the Queen of EoE!" followed by scenes of the others building a brand new Sandra statue to go with the old one lol.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Rachel RSL

[tvgoddess]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Look, I get there are people out there who love Rob and will never see him as anything other than adorable. Then there are those of us who are never going to see him as anything other than deplorable. We will have to agree to disagree. I have found him distasteful from Day 1 and nothing that has happened since then has changed my opinion of him.

Admittedly, as most everyone knows I'm a huge Rob fan but I completely get he has a lot of people that strongly dislike or even hate him. (The fact that he acknowledges this and respects it makes me like him even more.) I don't even think it comes down to whether you like him or not, if you think he's adorable or deplorable. I think it comes down to the definition of a bully. My definition does not fall in line with Rob's actions from last night. He was simply playing the game. Nothing more, nothing less. He's a very likable person in regards to the majority of Survivor players. They obviously don't feel he's a bully. 

[Guest]

Just now, Rachel RSL said:

Nah! No way does this happen.  Has there ever been anything in any of her seasons to indicate that Sandra is a quitter?  I feel like, if anything, we'd get a confessional from her saying something like: "If I can't win Survivor, I will be the Queen of EoE!" followed by scenes of the others building a brand new Sandra statue to go with the old one lol.

She would have them demolish the Rob statue and build the new Sandra statue from its remains. "Rob won't care, it didn't look like him anyway, he's not that good looking" *Sandra shrug*

[CloudySky]

34 minutes ago, Lamima said:

It was. That season was hard to keep in the memory bank due to the 2 douche bros, Jason and Scott, and their general grossness and assholeness. Michelle aligned with them. Just hung around while they did their vileness. Aubry gamed hard. She did have old man Joe as a 2nd vote for a while. But she really worked hard being on the bottom a lot due to her nerdiness pretty much. And she kept herself alive. It may have been partly her doings that the douche bros went to Ponderosa...that part I don't remember exactly. I know she was a part of it but not sure if she was the leader of it.  But they went to Ponderosa the bitter vile men that they were and poisoned the jury. That's how little sidekick, hanger on, Michelle won. 

But this season she is doing more...so far. We shall see. She did fall for the God Father's cunning tricks in last night's episode. 

And I agree that Sarah worked for her win and it wasn't a surprise. And Adam's wasn't that shocking either. 

Man, those guys were awful. It was so sweet when Tai refused to save Scott and he went home with other dude's idol in his pocket heh. I don't recall details but I believe Aubry sweettalked Tai into standing up to his bullies.

It's always easier to root for the underdog so I was one of those bummed Aubry didn't win. But like Rob said, if you won you won. Michelle played the best game in the group of people she was with. The endgoal isn't to get to the end. It's to get to the end and earn more jury votes than your opponent. Is she a less deserving winner than Boston Rob who needed 3 goes at it and a redemption island? I don't think so. Yet he's lauded as one of the greats because he has funny quips and a charming smile.

They are positioning Michelle as a person to root for this season, for sure. And it's kinda working on me. I want to see her "redeem" herself. It has the opposite effect on me with Ben.

I'm waiting on Parvati to do something. She doesn't ride coattails baby, but seems like she's riding the Rob wave to a swap or merge. Curious to see how she does then. The soccer mom alliance? In honor of her fallen soccer player buddy Ethan.

[loki567]

The thing that can annoy me about Rob (and Parvati/Sandra to a large extent) has less to do with Rob and more to do with how the show treats him. They are so completely in the tank for the guy that there's no attempt to edit him as a person anymore. They're just constantly talking him up and virtually everytime anybody says anything about him, they're going on and on about how great he is. It gets annoying. Even after he just got completely hookwinked in a vote. 

The same thing happens on The Challenge with CT. There's no attempt at characterization, it's just, "CT is so awesome, he's the baddest motherfucker ever!" again and again. I get sick of it. It reminds me of a gang of little kids constantly talking up the tough guy of their group. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by loki567

[Lamima]

4 minutes ago, CloudySky said:

Man, those guys were awful. It was so sweet when Tai refused to save Scott and he went home with other dude's idol in his pocket heh. I don't recall details but I believe Aubry sweettalked Tai into standing up to his bullies.

It's always easier to root for the underdog so I was one of those bummed Aubry didn't win. But like Rob said, if you won you won. Michelle played the best game in the group of people she was with. The endgoal isn't to get to the end. It's to get to the end and earn more jury votes than your opponent. Is she a less deserving winner than Boston Rob who needed 3 goes at it and a redemption island? I don't think so. Yet he's lauded as one of the greats because he has funny quips and a charming smile.

They are positioning Michelle as a person to root for this season, for sure. And it's kinda working on me. I want to see her "redeem" herself. It has the opposite effect on me with Ben.

I'm waiting on Parvati to do something. She doesn't ride coattails baby, but seems like she's riding the Rob wave to a swap or merge. Curious to see how she does then. The soccer mom alliance? In honor of her fallen soccer player buddy Ethan.

I am also digging the Michelle story right now. I too am down for her redemption. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I think it comes down to the definition of a bully. My definition does not fall in line with Rob's actions from last night. 

I agree there are different interpretations of what bullying behavior constitutes. Rob essentially threatened Adam to work with him and Parvati by saying if he didn't he would just go tell everyone else he was anyway. I don't know a nicer way to say that than bullying . . . coercion? Blackmail? 

To some he was just "playing the game" but I'm free to not like that kind of game play. I find it nasty and offensive. It's sort of like excusing someone being an asshole by saying "Oh, they're just telling it like it is." 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Yes, Rob told Adam to his face he could just lie and tell everyone they were working together anyway. Go back and watch again. It was him, Adam and Parvati on the beach, and Rob suggested they could still work together and flip things, and Adam said he couldn't risk it, and Rob said he could just say they were anyway.

Look, I get there are people out there who love Rob and will never see him as anything other than adorable. Then there are those of us who are never going to see him as anything other than deplorable. We will have to agree to disagree. I have found him distasteful from Day 1 and nothing that has happened since then has changed my opinion of him.

 

16 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I agree there are different interpretations of what bullying behavior constitutes. Rob essentially threatened Adam to work with him and Parvati by saying if he didn't he would just go tell everyone else he was anyway. I don't know a nicer way to say that than bullying . . . coercion? Blackmail? 

To some he was just "playing the game" but I'm free to not like that kind of game play. I find it nasty and offensive. It's sort of like excusing someone being an asshole by saying "Oh, they're just telling it like it is."

I stand corrected on the bolded part. I still don't agree that it's bullying, nor do I see how it's different from what a lot of other people have done who aren't called bullies/assholes. But it is, as you say, probably time to agree to disagree. You're certainly free to not like how Rob plays, and I personally didn't mean to imply otherwise. But people will continue to come to his defense; that's unlikely to stop.

But moving on from that dead horse...no doubt that Natalie is on another level of physical fitness from the others on EoE, but Amber wasn't looking too bad herself! When she was crashed out in the shelter after finishing, her legs were looking pretty impressive. Danni too, I guess, but I wasn't paying as much attention to her.

[RescueMom]

19 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

So an interesting thought just occurred to me. Anyone else think that scene with Rob and Michelle discussing how her win was controversial and essentially people didn't think she should have won, was totally random and out of place in the episode?

I thought it was shown because Rob's win is also controversial to many - how many times have we heard "it took him four tries to win and he only won that time because his tribe was full of sheep."  If I have heard/read it dozens of times, I would bet Rob has heard/read it thousands. Many people respect him as a player but not as a winner. So I thought that scene was him basically saying "fuck 'em if they can't take a joke, we both won and we both deserved to win."

[SuburbanHangSuite]

20 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I know this won’t last but all my faves are in a good spot right now and every time Sandra survives a TC, it both astonishes and delights me. I love her! She proudly sits out challenges and she openly says she’ll vote for anyone as long as it isn’t her yet they all love her. Her social game is killer!

Other than watching Natalie continue to be a beast, I could do with 95% less EoE. I mean, I really like him, but I didn’t need the epic saga of Ethan going up a hill. 

 

I must be getting sappy in my old age because I actually didn't mind the "inspirational" EoE segment and I usually roll my eyes all through those.  My heart was breaking for how depleted Ethan was and I was worried that they would pull him from the game.  SO happy that he recovered and finished.

I absolutely loved how Ethan, Amber and Dani all seemed to be in complete awe of Nat.  She is the definition of Beastmode.

 

19 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Tyson giving his token to Nick was interesting. Not sure if it was a desire to see the world burn kind of move or if maybe he has an interest in preserving the people he feels less threatened by in the event that he returns to the game. If they can give their tokens to anyone at all, he could have helped his "poker alliance" buddies on the other tribe, but chose not to. Would be curious to hear his reasoning on that one. 

Exactly what I expected---Tyson would bequeath his token to Rob or another "veteran" player on Sele.  I'm not mad that it went to Nick.  I need to know why everyone was so intent on saying that Nick blew the puzzle when there were two people bumbling and fumbling.

18 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Frankly, I was surprised that Rob was on the puzzle again. Not just because he (they) blew it last week but I must be blanking out but I don’t recall Rob being a puzzle whiz to begin with. In his four times playing the game what is his puzzle win/loses? Obviously, the tribe hasn’t had any problem with him doing them but I just don’t recall it being his Survivor wheelhouse. I could be totally wrong though. 

I don't recall his exact record on puzzles but Rob is a whiz on them.  That's what makes him such a deadly combo--his physical dominance is equally matched with smarts and social skills.   But last night's comeback was on a whole 'nother level.

Adam groveling was some funny shit.

[ProfCrash]

Nick got the blame because he solved the same type of puzzle in his season. 

[violet and green]

1 hour ago, Lamima said:

I am also digging the Michelle story right now. I too am down for her redemption. 

Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder! (Although she was exceptionally pretty in her confessionals, this episode.) Truly, I have seen no Michelle story told this season - other than that brief moment when Rob kindly blew smoke up her butt, and offered staunch reassurance about her dodgy win. Prior to this ep she's just seemed to me to be skulking about miserably, worrying and whisper-whining in the background, or hanging onto Jeremy, etc. Those are the first chunky talking heads we've had with her that I can recall, and I zoned out as usual. I am sorry she feels bad about her win, but I think she should feel bad about her win!

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I agree there are different interpretations of what bullying behavior constitutes. Rob essentially threatened Adam to work with him and Parvati by saying if he didn't he would just go tell everyone else he was anyway. I don't know a nicer way to say that than bullying . . . coercion? Blackmail? 

Except, unless I'm remembering this wrong, that didn't happen exactly like that. Rob was perfectly calm and pleasant to Adam and yes made the case for working with them. It was in his confessional he said that if Adam wouldn't he'd just lie and tell everyone he was working with them anyway. He didn't say that to Adam's face. So definitely not seeing this bullying of Adam from Rob. 

44 minutes ago, RescueMom said:

I thought it was shown because Rob's win is also controversial to many - how many times have we heard "it took him four tries to win and he only won that time because his tribe was full of sheep."  If I have heard/read it dozens of times, I would bet Rob has heard/read it thousands. Many people respect him as a player but not as a winner. So I thought that scene was him basically saying "fuck 'em if they can't take a joke, we both won and we both deserved to win."

I guess but don't see it.  Rob obviously has his detractors and yes many of them have repeatedly gone on about his winning after four tries. But he also has his supporters and is to many viewers one of the greatest Survivor players of all time. Not to mention the many who thought he should have won All Stars, which was only his second season. 

Again, Rob may have his detractors but people weren't vocally grumbling and challenging his win in Redemption Island the way they did with Michelle to where she had to defend her win that same night and every time after. I still think that scene was there maybe not because Michelle wins (though again how crazy would that be) but maybe a hint of a hidden alliance between her and Rob that some may not be aware of that will come to play down the road. 

[watch2much]

I just love watching Rob play. I left out loud that he was able to just say the little he did in the other players instead of thinking that’s super player Rob talking to us immediately accepted that what he was telling them was true. That’s the brilliance of Rob.  I really dislike the show making Ethan do that task given his cancer history. As someone else pointed out it was sadistic and unnecessary. They could’ve done something less physically tasking.

[RescueMom]

10 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I guess but don't see it.  Rob obviously has his detractors and yes many of them have repeatedly gone on about his winning after four tries. But he also has his supporters and is to many viewers one of the greatest Survivor players of all time. Not to mention the many who thought he should have won All Stars, which was only his second season. 

Again, Rob may have his detractors but people weren't vocally grumbling and challenging his win in Redemption Island the way they did with Michelle to where she had to defend her win that same night and every time after. I still think that scene was there maybe not because Michelle wins (though again how crazy would that be) but maybe a hint of a hidden alliance between her and Rob that some may not be aware of that will come to play down the road. 

I'll respectfully agree to disagree on part of this one 🙂 I think Rob gets a lot of derision for his win. I notice it because I like him and have always disagreed with the idea that the win was handed to him. 

I could easily be misinterpreting the conversation, though. Like you say, it would be an interesting thing to throw in there if Michele did win or if they end up working together. 

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Nah! No way does this happen.  Has there ever been anything in any of her seasons to indicate that Sandra is a quitter?  I feel like, if anything, we'd get a confessional from her saying something like: "If I can't win Survivor, I will be the Queen of EoE!" followed by scenes of the others building a brand new Sandra statue to go with the old one lol.

I’m not saying Sandra is a quitter - just that (a) Sandra’s chief strengths have always been her social and strategic games, (b) her chief weakness has always been her physical game, and (c) Sandra is pragmatic as hell.  
So if Sandra ends up in a situation where her only shot at return is to endure days, maybe weeks of hardship - before entering a comp where her strengths are rendered a total non-issue, and the requirement for success depends upon her weakest attribute...?  

[Guest]

6 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I felt bad for Adam when he was being obsequious around camp. The coconut soup thing was especially painful. When no one would take any, I was thinking, "just drink the soup before you make Adam cry!" He's like an injured baby bird I want to take care of, but I know I'll regret it because as soon as he gets better he'll start shitting on my car.

This is great. 😂😂

[LanceM]

45 minutes ago, violet and green said:

Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder! (Although she was exceptionally pretty in her confessionals, this episode.) Truly, I have seen no Michelle story told this season - other than that brief moment when Rob kindly blew smoke up her butt, and offered staunch reassurance about her dodgy win. Prior to this ep she's just seemed to me to be skulking about miserably, worrying and whisper-whining in the background, or hanging onto Jeremy, etc. Those are the first chunky talking heads we've had with her that I can recall, and I zoned out as usual. I am sorry she feels bad about her win, but I think she should feel bad about her win!

I mean she literally was the one last episode that successfully switched the target to Ethan and voted him out.  It wasn't Jeremy, or anyone else. And no she shouldn't feel bad about her win at all. That is ridiculous, frankly.

Edited March 5, 2020 by LanceM

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I felt bad for Adam when he was being obsequious around camp. The coconut soup thing was especially painful. When no one would take any, I was thinking, "just drink the soup before you make Adam cry!" 

I was cringing so hard when no one would eat Adam's soup. Fucking hell why didn't one of them just take a damn bite?! 

2 hours ago, Lamima said:

It was. That season was hard to keep in the memory bank due to the 2 douche bros, Jason and Scott, and their general grossness and assholeness. Michelle aligned with them. Just hung around while they did their vileness. Aubry gamed hard. She did have old man Joe as a 2nd vote for a while. But she really worked hard being on the bottom a lot due to her nerdiness pretty much. And she kept herself alive. It may have been partly her doings that the douche bros went to Ponderosa...that part I don't remember exactly. I know she was a part of it but not sure if she was the leader of it.  But they went to Ponderosa the bitter vile men that they were and poisoned the jury. That's how little sidekick, hanger on, Michelle won. 

I am fairly sure this is not what happened. I don't recall Michele ever aligning with Scot/Jason really. You may be thinking of Julia. Michele was actually really closely aligned with Cydney (we weren't fully shown how close they were) and, in turn, actually worked with Aubry in the later part of the game, I think mostly due to Cydney being aligned with Aubry. Aubry had wanted Michele out for a long time because she was worried about her social game but she was never able to get her out and then Michele beat her with her social game.

Just now, LanceM said:

I mean she literally was the one last episode that switched the target to Ethan.  It wasn't Jeremy, or anyone else. 

Obviously that was all Jeremy's doing and he just let Michele think she came up with it!

[Jeanne222]

I have never missed a season of Survivor and I must say this season is my absolute favorite!  I am on the edge of my seat each episode.

They have separated the men from the boys and the women from the girls!  This season is the results!  Amazing play!  I'm loving it!

[Lamima]

15 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I was cringing so hard when no one would eat Adam's soup. Fucking hell why didn't one of them just take a damn bite?! 

I am fairly sure this is not what happened. I don't recall Michele ever aligning with Scot/Jason really. You may be thinking of Julia. Michele was actually really closely aligned with Cydney (we weren't fully shown how close they were) and, in turn, actually worked with Aubry in the later part of the game, I think mostly due to Cydney being aligned with Aubry. Aubry had wanted Michele out for a long time because she was worried about her social game but she was never able to get her out and then Michele beat her with her social game.

Obviously that was all Jeremy's doing and he just let Michele think she came up with it!

Michelle and Julia hung with them and then Julia left and Michelle still did. She wasn't all ga-ga over them like the young Julia but she was with them.

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Lamima

[peachmangosteen]

3 minutes ago, Lamima said:

Michelle and Julia hung with them and then Julia left and Michelle still did. She wasn't all ga-ga over them like the young Julia but she was with them.

She must have been playing both sides then because she was definitely with Cydney/Aubry as well. Her game is even better than I remember lol.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I agree there are different interpretations of what bullying behavior constitutes. Rob essentially threatened Adam to work with him and Parvati by saying if he didn't he would just go tell everyone else he was anyway. I don't know a nicer way to say that than bullying . . . coercion? Blackmail? 

Except, unless I'm remembering this wrong, that didn't happen exactly like that. Rob was perfectly calm and pleasant to Adam and yes made the case for working with them. It was in his confessional he said that if Adam wouldn't he'd just lie and tell everyone he was working with them anyway. He didn't say that to Adam's face. So definitely not seeing this bullying of Adam from Rob. 

No, Imonrey's right about that part. I went back and watched at their suggestion, and Rob did in fact say to Adam's face that he could just tell everyone that Adam was trying to work with him. He was calm about it, but he did say it.

[Lamima]

5 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

She must have been playing both sides then because she was definitely with Cydney/Aubry as well. Her game is even better than I remember lol.

I don't  remember Michelle ever being with Aubry.  Aubry's person was old Joe. I don't remember Cydney even being with Aubry so much. Cydney was on her own from what I recall. But Julia and Michelle were close. Though I think she went along with Julia's demise.

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Lamima

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, Lamima said:

I don't  remember Michelle ever being with Aubry.  Aubry's person was old Joe. I don't remember Cydney even being with Aubry so much. Cydney was on her own from what I recall.

I have such a different memory of that season! I don't care enough to rewatch though so I'll never know what really happened lol.

[Lamima]

Just now, peachmangosteen said:

I have such a different memory of that season! I don't care enough to rewatch though so I'll never know what really happened lol.

Yeah, that is one season I will NEVER re-watch (along with last season). My 2 least fave.

[peachmangosteen]

I just found out they're putting the votes up on youtube so we don't have to rely on wikipedia:

I'm glad they're doing this at least. I really miss when they actually showed what they said during their vote though.

[loki567]

Michele's win wasn't the worst Survivor. Bob and Fabio still exist. But I hated her win for two reasons:

1. Scot and Jason, two of the biggest sexist douchebags in the history of the show were her winning votes and so important to her victory that Scot even got the defining jury speech. 

2. There's this weird attempt by Natalie White apologists (and I'm one of those people) who have tried to turn Michele into this feminist icon, when once again she won because of said two sexist douchebags. 

I guess it's because there more effort to explain away female players' victories and discount them as players that some people feel it really necessary to defend Michele, but I don't want to ignore the reality of what actually happened her season and why it was so unsatisfying. 

[LanceM]

3 minutes ago, loki567 said:

Michele's win wasn't the worst Survivor. Bob and Fabio still exist. But I hated her win for two reasons:

1. Scot and Jason, two of the biggest sexist douchebags in the history of the show were her winning votes and so important to her victory that Scot even got the defining jury speech. 

2. There's this weird attempt by Natalie White apologists (and I'm one of those people) who have tried to turn Michele into this feminist icon, when once again she won because of said two sexist douchebags. 

I guess it's because there more effort to explain away female players' victories and discount them as players that some people feel it really necessary to defend Michele, but I don't want to ignore the reality of what actually happened her season and why it was so unsatisfying. 

Just curious but why are Scott and Jason here winning votes and not those of Debbie and Cydney?

I am also curious if you would feel the same unsatisfying if Scot and Jason voted for Aubry and she won?

Edited March 6, 2020 by LanceM

[loki567]

Just now, LanceM said:

Just curious but why are Scott and Jason here winning votes and not those of Debbie and Cydney?

That's not a bad point but the show put more focus on Jason/Scot and like I said even gave him the big jury speech. 

[CloudySky]

1 hour ago, violet and green said:

Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder! (Although she was exceptionally pretty in her confessionals, this episode.) Truly, I have seen no Michelle story told this season - other than that brief moment when Rob kindly blew smoke up her butt, and offered staunch reassurance about her dodgy win. Prior to this ep she's just seemed to me to be skulking about miserably, worrying and whisper-whining in the background, or hanging onto Jeremy, etc. Those are the first chunky talking heads we've had with her that I can recall, and I zoned out as usual. I am sorry she feels bad about her win, but I think she should feel bad about her win!

Ha indeed, because I see a nice little story arc building. Starting off with episode 1 when she was blindsided when her ally Nathalie was voted off. So she was on the bottom with Jeremy, but was able to manoeuver into a power position and orchestrate the Ethan vote. She seems to get along with everyone and her name never comes up. And she's using Jeremy's meat shield strategy on Jeremy by using him as her meat shield. She's had some confessionals (or was it pregame interviews?) about wanting to play a more aggressive game this go around.

Compared to half the cast who's barely appeared on screen or been shown strategizing, she's had a ton of story! 😛 

[Rachel RSL]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

I’m not saying Sandra is a quitter - just that (a) Sandra’s chief strengths have always been her social and strategic games, (b) her chief weakness has always been her physical game, and (c) Sandra is pragmatic as hell.  
So if Sandra ends up in a situation where her only shot at return is to endure days, maybe weeks of hardship - before entering a comp where her strengths are rendered a total non-issue, and the requirement for success depends upon her weakest attribute...?  

She would totally stay. I don’t think quitting would even enter her thought process. I remember on one of her seasons, they were doing an endurance challenge and Jeff asked her about the pain and, I don’t remember her exact words, but she said something typically Sandra-esque like: “This is nothing! I gave birth, didn’t even take an aspirin!”  

Edited March 6, 2020 by Rachel RSL

[nlkm9]

9 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Sandra can be playing for herself and still get along with other people. The people she dislikes, she dislikes and everyone knows it. Think Fairplay and Russell. Everyone knew she didn't like them. Hell, they knew she didn't like them. She was fine with pretty much everyone else on her tribe and I cannot remember anyone saying that Sandra treated them poorly, was mean, or ignored them. I am trying to remember hearing anyone complain about Sandra outside of the game.

Yes, she plays for herself but everyone out there is playing for themselves. The Woo's and Colby's of the world are rare. 99.9% of the players out there are gunning for the money. They might not be as upfront about it but they are not suffering out there to help someone else win.

But that is a far distance from not caring about the other people out there. Sandra is regularly chatting with people, laughing with people, and exchanging quips with people. She seems to be well received by her tribe mates.

I am wondering how Nick is going to play off that Kim vote.

I’m glad you brought up Colby . He handed Tina the win when he could easily picked the chef. Why are some seasons a final 2 and others a final 3?

[North of Eden]

I felt bad for Ethan on the log challenge. The image that has stuck with me regarding him all these years was him as the fit young man running like a Looney Tunes character in front of a giant rolling wooden ball in Africa. He seemed light years away from that tonight but he stuck it out. That was cool.

Natalie's performace on the exile island shows that her team were card carrying morons to vote her off. Imagine having her strength and will bolstering her team. She'd have had all those bags or bouyes or whatever they were yanked down in seconds but instead of voting Adam out episode one they kept the pathetic weasil.  The other team being puzzle challenged was a miracle sent from above. Voting her out was a huge mistake.

That was one of the most painful tribal councils ever! Listening to several raging egomaniacs refering to themselves as idols, heroes  etc was just so over the top...outside of Yule, Sofia and possibly Nick I can't stand them.

Tysons bitch face when getting his torch snuffed....priceless!