S05.E03: The Guy for This

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If Hank had followed SOP, he would have been fired and possibly gone to prison, if they believed Walt's "confession" DVD.

Walt was doing things the only way he could save his career and get hard evidence against Walt.

He was going to call it in, now that they had Walt's taped phone call to Jesse, in which he confessed to numerous murders and other crimes.

He told Walt he was going to call in a team to find Walt's money.  He just took a moment to call his wife, who had gone through Hell with him. In that call, he told her that he would probably be tied up with the DEA for hours and wouldn't be able to talk to her.

I can't believe calling your wife to tell her you were safe, but would be late for dinner and, by the way, just nailed a mass murderer who was ruining their lives could be considered "hubris".  It was a combination of common courtesy and love.

Hank had no reason to suspect an army of Nazis would be coming to rescue Walt and kill Hank and Gomey.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hank knew he was going after the smartest guy he'd ever known, a brilliant guy evil enough to orchestrate multiple assasinations, in multiple prisons, simulteaneously.  It was horribly misplaced pride for Hank to think it was in any way acceptable for him and his partner to go out to an isolated place in the desert, upon the assumption that only Walt would be in the vicinity of millions and millions in cash. Marie forshadowed it completely when she scolded him for thinking he was "Lone Wolf McQuade". Hank himself admitted to Gomey that it was concern for his reputation that drove him to want to get Walt with minimum assistance. That pride was the death of Hank and his partner.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

 

If Kim's objective was to make the guy not see her as the bad guy, and if her true story was not all that endearing, I can see her making something up on the fly.  Sure, she went back and offered her own money, but that didn't work.  So maybe, maybe not, she did a little embellishing.  I don't have an opinion about whether Kim told a white lie at that moment.  But we do know that she has deliberately lied and misled other people in the past when it suited her interests.   

But that wouldn't work if she wanted him to see her as a good guy for real. That is, if she was looking for any kind of absolution for herself. If she just wanted him to think she was sympathetic for false reasons then he just didn't fall for it rather than not giving her the comfort she really was seeking. 

[tljgator]

Came to post about the non-CGI of the ants, but PAB beat me to it -- so fascinating. Maybe I can start a new career as an "ant wrangler" for TV shows...probably not high demand, though, lol.  In addition to the prior interesting & thoughtful takes on the ant imagery, I'd just add that I think it also plays on the episode theme of 'once you're in, you're in'; we see a few latter ants getting almost stuck in the goo, trading their mobility for the rush of the flashy, sugary treat, etc.  (not to mention, the more grabby little insects there are, the less there is to go around, the more hostile the ants get, and so on, and so on).

As for Mr. Disgruntled Homeowner, I just kept wondering why they didn't offer to have the house moved -- use the buyout money to get a plot of land, negotiate for them to move the house (they move decent size houses all the time on that DIY 'flip & move' show). I also fell for the (presumed) fake-out that Kim would show up to find out that he'd killed himself -- glad they avoided that cliche.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, tljgator said:

Came to post about the non-CGI of the ants, but PAB beat me to it -- so fascinating. Maybe I can start a new career as an "ant wrangler" for TV shows...probably not high demand, though, lol.  In addition to the prior interesting & thoughtful takes on the ant imagery, I'd just add that I think it also plays on the episode theme of 'once you're in, you're in'; we see a few latter ants getting almost stuck in the goo, trading their mobility for the rush of the flashy, sugary treat, etc.  (not to mention, the more grabby little insects there are, the less there is to go around, the more hostile the ants get, and so on, and so on).

As for Mr. Disgruntled Homeowner, I just kept wondering why they didn't offer to have the house moved -- use the buyout money to get a plot of land, negotiate for them to move the house (they move decent size houses all the time on that DIY 'flip & move' show). I also fell for the (presumed) fake-out that Kim would show up to find out that he'd killed himself -- glad they avoided that cliche.

Love your alternate take on the ants, @tljgator, and cute icon, too!

I’m guessing moving Mr. Disgruntled Homeowner‘s house would require that the new location be similar for him to go with it. 
My understanding is that moving houses is expensive. My employer tore down a 1960s-era cylindrical structure with a loft and lots of windows that I would have loved to live in happily ever after. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Irlandesa]

10 hours ago, Adiba said:

Also, couldn't MV just build around him?

They're building a call center so probably a big square building with a big concrete parking lot.

It'd cost a lot to build around it the house.

10 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Yes, and I wouldn't be surprised if in his mind he felt like the amount of time had passed gave him the right to assume it would go on forever.

He leased the land for a 100 years so he probably assumed he'd be dead by the time he'd have to deal with not owning the land.  And he probably looked at how much land there was available in 1974 and couldn't envision why anyone would purchase the land a bunch of houses were on instead of undeveloped land.

But 30 years is a long time in business years.  In the meantime, a city gets built around the location and suddenly that plot of land's value goes up because it has utilities running to it or it's near highways...etc. 

It's one of those situations where I feel for him because it's not uncommon people decide to gamble a bit figuring they'll never have the debt come due because it usually doesn't--and then it does.

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And speaking of Lalo, I think I have a crush on him. Does that make me a bad grandma-aged person?

Ha.  I do like the way he carries himself, especially in that scene with Jimmy. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm enjoying the show to be sure but I'm actually more interested in Kim's story. I do think it was interesting that Saul is initially reluctant to get involved with these people and I am interested if he gets past that or if it always bothers him, but we know where he's going. I'm hoping nothing bad happens to Kim. I like that she does have a temper. 

[Milburn Stone]

Kim throws better than Jimmy.

[tennisgurl]

Double Post whoops! Dont drop a bottle on my head!

Edited March 4, 2020 by tennisgurl

[tennisgurl]

Hank and Gomie! Wonder Twin powers activate! With an additional Marie story that is SO Marie! 

Nacho and his big, fancy, sad apartment which he is clearly as empty and miserable as he is, despite him living a life he probably dreamed of at one point, was just so terribly sad. His father is just so disappointed that his son turned out to be a criminal, and Nacho knows it, but presumably feels like he’s gone too far to be anything else. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Ellaria]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

It'd cost a lot to build around it the house.

He leased the land for a 100 years so he probably assumed he'd be dead by the time he'd have to deal with not owning the land.  And he probably looked at how much land there was available in 1974 and couldn't envision why anyone would purchase the land a bunch of houses were on instead of undeveloped land.

There is a similar situation not far from where I live. A gym and a Starbucks were built near a modest home on woodsy, undeveloped plot of land. It is an area without any sort of commercial properties in the area. Mr. Disgruntled Homeowner didn't sell initially when the redevelopment began. That was about 10 years ago. Today, there is an entire shopping/entertainment complex wrapped around his house. It is a strange site. I often wonder how it got to this point.

Anyway, my concern about the show's fragmented plot lines ended with this episode when Jimmy met with Lalo and Nacho. Loved when he was quoting his fees to Lalo thinking that it was a deterrent only for Lalo to have that amount - and more - in his wallet.

Great to see Hank and Steve again. Hank calling out Jimmy on his pseudonym was brilliant. That's the Hank that I know.

I'm getting bored with watching Gus shrouded in shadows and/or looking off into the distance. I assume that he will do something awful soon - hopefully not involving Nacho or his father - because this is getting tedious.

Kim is getting pushed to her breaking point. I have no idea of whether or not she lied to Mr. Acker (?) but I suspect that she chooses a different life soon.

And count me among those that hated the bottle-tossing scene.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Ellaria Sand

[JudyObscure]

14 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But at the core you still have two older men who find their home/business that they have put work into to be more valuable than money--which is what Nacho and Kim went for and put them in this position. 

I just remembered a third old man who had put his heart and soul into his business and had it forcibly sold out from under him thanks to Skyler's crooked tricks. The car wash man.  Most viewers were happy about that considering what a jerk he had been as Walter's boss, but I felt really sorry for him.  An immigrant who made that business his whole life.  I like that our show runners have a thought for such people and write them so well.

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And speaking of Lalo, I think I have a crush on him. Does that make me a bad grandma-aged person?

Oh, Shapeshifter, you and Lalo, me and Nacho.  We've probably broken bad and don't even realize it.

[Milburn Stone]

45 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Kim is getting pushed to her breaking point. I have no idea of whether or not she lied to Mr. Acker...

I entertain zero doubt on that score. That doesn't mean I'm right, just that I have a conviction about it that is devoid of ambiguity. And that conviction is: Kim's story was the 110% God's honest truth. Everything in Seehorn's performance told me that.

As delighted to see Hank again as I was, I think I was even more delighted to see Barry Corbin.

[Clanstarling]

14 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I read in a commentary elsewhere regarding the picture of the Opera House which Werner's father had worked on. The interpretation was that as Werner had come to work on the superlab sort of following in the footsteps of his father, so Mike's son had followed in his father's footsteps, and both ended up dead. I would have never thought of that. Really adds to the poignancy of that scene in the bar.

I was pleased I remembered the significance of the Opera House, but I never connected it to Mike and his son. Nice emotional layer. Thanks!

14 hours ago, peeayebee said:

OMGosh. I just read a tweet that the ant sequence was all real. They had an ant wrangler. Y'know, I thought those ants looked real but just didn't think it could be, for some reason.

So I'm wondering, was the hissing ant actually recorded by super mics, or was that sound effects. Because that was the moment that creeped me out at the most. (I hate ants)

14 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I know on earlier episode threads, a lot of people expressed the opinion that they didn’t listen to showrunner podcasts, etc., but I was seriously checking my feed to get the inside scoop on those ants!

Yeah, I could see information like this as something to look for. I just don't want to be told about the emotional journeys they expect us to take along with the characters.

13 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Do law enforcement officers typically stop in the middle of an arrest to call the victims to let them know everything would be okay now? I'm guessing probably not and don't see why Marie was entitled to special treatment just because she was Hank's wife. As it was Hank was sort of going rogue with his personal operation to take Walt down. Once he had Walt I should think he would've wanted to move back inside the lines to make sure the arrest stayed solid.

Yes, he was going rogue - but in addition to everything else everyone's posted, I don't think Marie was getting special treatment because Marie was his wife, as much as Hank was calling her because Walt was a member of the family and she didn't have to be afraid anymore. I think, professional protocol or not, some cops would indeed call their families. They shouldn't do it , but they are human.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I'm getting bored with watching Gus shrouded in shadows and/or looking off into the distance. I assume that he will do something awful soon - hopefully not involving Nacho or his father - because this is getting tedious.

Yes, yes, yes and being seen in the rearview mirror. This has been done too much, we know what he is.

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I just remembered a third old man who had put his heart and soul into his business and had it forcibly sold out from under him thanks to Skyler's crooked tricks. The car wash man.  Most viewers were happy about that considering what a jerk he had been as Walter's boss, but I felt really sorry for him.  An immigrant who made that business his whole life.  I like that our show runners have a thought for such people and write them so well.

Oh, Shapeshifter, you and Lalo, me and Nacho.  We've probably broken bad and don't even realize it.

Oh, JudyObscure, I didn't just laugh at this, I laughed hard. Thank you. It's the best medicine.

[Ellaria]

41 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

I entertain zero doubt on that score. That doesn't mean I'm right, just that I have a conviction about it that is devoid of ambiguity. And that conviction is: Kim's story was the 110% God's honest truth. Everything in Seehorn's performance told me that.

Always good to see certainty on the part of a viewer. The writers and actor did their job.

However, that wasn't my point. Kim's story - truth or fiction - will have a greater impact on her decision-making going forward than it did on cranky Mr. Acker. It is a turning point for her.

[shapeshifter]

22 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Kim's story - truth or fiction - will have a greater impact on her decision-making going forward than it did on cranky Mr. Acker. It is a turning point for her.

Please elaborate and speculate!

[Eulipian 5k]

On 3/3/2020 at 12:32 AM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Yes.  Great things have resulted from charities taking money from gangsters throughout history. 

As Saul is finding out from his deal with Lalo, once you take drug money, you're in to them for life. Ignacio himself just told Saul that. Mike knows that from his days in Phila. and is trying to pull out from Gus. It's never a "one time deal" with drug dealers.

[PeterPirate]

IIRC, what stopped Hank from arresting Walt was that he had no evidence, and Walt's video forced Hank to do his investigation clandestinely.  I also recall that Hank decided to arrest Walt after Jesse made his video, but that he still had no hard evidence.  

Be that as it may, the moment Hank decided he had probable cause to arrest Walt--and to act on behalf of the government of the United States--he had an obligation to notify the DEA of his intentions.  I don't find any fault with Hank calling Marie, but he and Gomie should have had backup.  

And now that I think about it, I don't know what the value of luring Walt into the desert was.  Walt could have been arrested at his home or the car wash.  If the goal was to get more evidence, Hank should have brought a team with some metal detectors to find the buried money.  

 

34 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

I entertain zero doubt on that score. That doesn't mean I'm right, just that I have a conviction about it that is devoid of ambiguity. And that conviction is: Kim's story was the 110% God's honest truth. Everything in Seehorn's performance told me that.

As delighted to see Hank again as I was, I think I was even more delighted to see Barry Corbin.

I also completely believed Kim, as I watched it.  I also thought Mr. Acker was a complete jerk for not believing her.  It was only upon reflection that this was Brenda's dad that I started thinking her story might not be the complete truth.  

[Milburn Stone]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Always good to see certainty on the part of a viewer. The writers and actor did their job.

However, that wasn't my point. Kim's story - truth or fiction - will have a greater impact on her decision-making going forward than it did on cranky Mr. Acker. It is a turning point for her.

I understood your point, Ellaria, and wasn't addressing it. FWIW.

 

[tljgator]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

So I'm wondering, was the hissing ant actually recorded by super mics, or was that sound effects. Because that was the moment that creeped me out at the most. (I hate ants)

Clanstarling, here's the on set picture that was posted on Twitter -- looks like they were in super tight on the real ants, so they may well have mic'd it up as well. *shudders* Creepy, indeed.

[Eulipian 5k]

22 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

My memory is horrible.  The long hiatus between seasons isn't helping me any.

This is so true. All I remember about the Kettlemans is the "Here's Johnny!" .I think today's showrunners and networks forget they are just TV shows; not life altering literature that I would suspend all other life events for. Then all you get is ten episodes with years in between. Especially a show that relies on events that go back 12 years; that's almost 1/5th of a human lifespan, for a TV show.

[Ed-]

Did you guys notice:

Ice Interceptor ("Pol" in "Police" faded out on the back of the car) moments before Hank is introduced. Ice is a slang for crystal meth. Ice cream is also prominently featured in the episode.

[Eulipian 5k]

22 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

This could be ripped from the headlines. It's happening in my area right now with some holdouts in a couple different places where conglomerates are building.

We've had a hold out who lasted 30 years. So an entire generation had to put up with this jerk, while they lived in a rat infested lot with a trailer and no municipal services like water or electricity; in the middle of Brooklyn, NYC. Across the street was a development that provided housing for hundreds of families.

 Time for the old coot to go! Mesa Verde needs to finance car washes, and chicken farms, and strip malls with cucumber water!

[shapeshifter]

35 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I also completely believed Kim, as I watched it.  I also thought Mr. Acker was a complete jerk for not believing her.  It was only upon reflection that this was Brenda's dad that I started thinking her story might not be the complete truth.  

And yet:

• as Rhea delivered the toes turning blue line, at least 2 of us here thought it sounded like an embellishment
• cranky old Acker didn't believe her
• we have recently seen Kim misleading a client for "his own good"

 

[Tikichick]

21 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Regarding the ice cream cone, in addition to being a really cool shot, I thought it symbolized the good, sweet, wholesome part of Jimmy McGill, first being contaminated, then infested and then totally consumed by all his moral and ethical compromises, lies, scams and crimes, and the consequences of them that he can no longer control. 

I think Jimmy has just reached Walter White territory, where his past bad decisions and immoral choices have put him in a position where he needs to make more of them and even worse ones in order to survive.

My question is, how close is Kim to that point?  I think the bottles point to Kim reaching the point where she's truly questioning if there's any point in trying to do the right thing.  The first night on the balcony she responsibly cleared away the bottles, all the while telling herself she would take care of business when it came to Mesa Verde, but she would still be able to achieve some good that was actually meaningful.  The second night she was frustrated that she hadn't gotten any meaningful results, even when she tried a creative and earnest approach to do some actual good within the Mesa Verde arena despite the situation.  

She walked out on that balcony, clocked the precarious position of that bottle -- and proceeded to gleefully do absolutely no good whatsoever.  Has she decided there's just no point anyway?   

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

And yet:

• as Rhea delivered the toes turning blue line, at least 2 of us here thought it sounded like an embellishment
• cranky old Acker didn't believe her
• we have recently seen Kim misleading a client for "his own good"

 

Not that I know for sure, of course, but it seems more in keeping with her emotions if it's a contrast to that earlier scene. She misled the other guy for his own and felt bad about it--bad about herself. (Whether the guy believed her or not probably has more to do with the person than the truthfulness of the story, since after all the last guy *did* believe her and we know she was lying.)

With this guy there's a similar situation if she's trying to get the guy to take the money instead of just being dragged away by the sheriff and not getting any money. She's trying to get him to feel better about what's happening. If she was just trying to scam him for his own good and he refused, I don't think she'd have as much reason to be angry and throwing bottles. There'd actually be some relief there that she didn't trick him like she did the other guy. 

Instead it seemed to me like she was angry again, but her anger was directed outward at the world rather than at herself like it was when she lied. To me throwing the bottles was more the act of someone who had tried her best and *not* tried to cheat and it didn't work so why follow the rules? Lying really did get a better outcome for everyone.

2 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

However, that wasn't my point. Kim's story - truth or fiction - will have a greater impact on her decision-making going forward than it did on cranky Mr. Acker. It is a turning point for her.

 

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Please elaborate and speculate!

Can't speak for Ellaria, but I would think her realizing how much she'd like a home--that is, a stable existence where she felt safe--would be important. But it also reminds us that her sympathies will always lie with the little guy because she'll always see herself that way. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

However, that wasn't my point. Kim's story - truth or fiction - will have a greater impact on her decision-making going forward than it did on cranky Mr. Acker. It is a turning point for her.

I think so, too, it struck me at the end of the episode that she was more fed up with doing Mesa Verde's dirty work than she was with Jimmy's immediate success as Saul. She tried to soften the blow for Mr. Acker, unsuccessfully, going to some trouble to do so. She is clearly invested in her pro bono clients, knowing the minutiae of their whereabouts. She is seemingly more drawn to that than to evictions. She said so to Jimmy, that she was celebrating having the next day exclusively for pro bono. Also, I noticed that in her first visit to the walled house, she was ready to leave, said she could see his mind was made up. It was only when he goaded her about being a do-gooder who salves their conscience at the soup kitchen, etc., that she unleashed on him. That spurred her to try to make it better for him, whether she embellished her story or not. And she was willing to put her money where her mouth was.

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Can't speak for Ellaria, but I would think her realizing how much she'd like a home--that is, a stable existence where she felt safe--would be important. But it also reminds us that her sympathies will always lie with the little guy because she'll always see herself that way. 

Yes, I think she knows she can function appropriately in the HHM or Schweikert or Mesa Verde realms, but it's not what she is happiest with.

 

[Tikichick]

14 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

On a lighter note, I laughed when Saul was relieved he was needed for legal help and not to swallow condoms filled with drugs, and Lalo replies, "maybe later."

The first time I watched a scene with any of the Salamancas and felt zero tension and stress.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

18 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Where as Acker doesn't own his home legally--he possibly accepted his money gift when he was enjoying it (if we assume that came along with a lowered rent) and the person he's making feel guilty is Kim who didn't cause his circumstances and doesn't have the power to control the threat to him either.

 

17 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think he does own the home, there was no rent involved that I remember. He just leased the land it was built on and now the lease is terminated

 That is the correct interpretation. 

[Eulipian 5k]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

2 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Kim's story - truth or fiction - will have a greater impact on her decision-making going forward than it did on cranky Mr. Acker. It is a turning point for her.

Please elaborate and speculate!

This scene is a nice counterpoint to her telling Jimmy that she didn't want to lie to her clients. Is she the same when dealing with the bank's clients/adversaries? Was she lying to Acker the way she lied to the 5-monther in her pro-bono work?

[Milburn Stone]

It seems like the following argument would have been made to Mr. Acker, so it probably was, off-screen, but if I were he I would find it compelling: "You are absolutely going to hate living here once this call center, and its parking lot for 1000 cars, goes up all around you. Everything you love about living here--living with nature, living in peace and solitude--will be gone. Why on earth would you want that?"

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

It seems like the following argument would have been made to Mr. Acker, so it probably was, off-screen, but if I were he I would find it compelling: "You are absolutely going to hate living here once this call center, and its parking lot for 1000 cars, goes up all around you. Everything you love about living here--living with nature, living in peace and solitude--will be gone. Why on earth would you want that?"

And his answer would no doubt be: Because YOU don't want me to have it!

[DoctorAtomic]

2 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

This is so true. All I remember about the Kettlemans is the "Here's Johnny!" .I think today's showrunners and networks forget they are just TV shows; not life altering literature that I would suspend all other life events for. Then all you get is ten episodes with years in between. Especially a show that relies on events that go back 12 years; that's almost 1/5th of a human lifespan, for a TV show.

This is why I just don't get much into any one show anymore. Because there's so much new content all the time, I just don't rewatch shows. Then if you have over a year between shows, I'm just not going to remember every detail and I just don't have the impetus to look it up. 

I like the show and remember a decent amount but I know there's a lot of details that just fly by me. 

[PeterPirate]

The word "rent" has multiple uses.  Acker still needed to make regular payments for the use of the land.  It was probably no more than 15% of the current market amount.  He had a sweet deal going.  

I can imagine Acker believed he could force Mesa Verde to move their call center to another location if he held out long enough.  

 

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

• as Rhea delivered the toes turning blue line, at least 2 of us here thought it sounded like an embellishment
• cranky old Acker didn't believe her
• we have recently seen Kim misleading a client for "his own good"

I guess I have a weakness for Kim Wexler, who is the primary reason why I watch this show.  I want to believe what she says, although I think she is going to break bad in the end.

[ShadowFacts]

8 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I can imagine Acker believed he could force Mesa Verde to move their call center to another location if he held out long enough. 

I think that is possible. I'm reacting to him based on what we've been shown so far, that's the only way I can. But they could flip the script on us and he turns out to have been a cagey schemer who thought he could get a nice payday by being the last one there. I wouldn't like that. I don't think that's what's happening, but the door is slightly open because there really was no reason for him to allow Kim in that night after reaming her out. With him not responding to her emotional appeal though, and not having any slight attempt at negotiation, I think he is likely ready to stay there until he is forcibly removed.

[Bannon]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Not that I know for sure, of course, but it seems more in keeping with her emotions if it's a contrast to that earlier scene. She misled the other guy for his own and felt bad about it--bad about herself. (Whether the guy believed her or not probably has more to do with the person than the truthfulness of the story, since after all the last guy *did* believe her and we know she was lying.)

With this guy there's a similar situation if she's trying to get the guy to take the money instead of just being dragged away by the sheriff and not getting any money. She's trying to get him to feel better about what's happening. If she was just trying to scam him for his own good and he refused, I don't think she'd have as much reason to be angry and throwing bottles. There'd actually be some relief there that she didn't trick him like she did the other guy. 

Instead it seemed to me like she was angry again, but her anger was directed outward at the world rather than at herself like it was when she lied. To me throwing the bottles was more the act of someone who had tried her best and *not* tried to cheat and it didn't work so why follow the rules? Lying really did get a better outcome for everyone.

 

Can't speak for Ellaria, but I would think her realizing how much she'd like a home--that is, a stable existence where she felt safe--would be important. But it also reminds us that her sympathies will always lie with the little guy because she'll always see herself that way. 

This was my interpretation as well. Kim was telling the absolute truth in her story, and to be called a liar after opening up with something so deeply personal, regarding her vulnerability as a child, was just enraging, especially since she was only doing so for the benefit of the ingrateful jackass. 

Will this harden her, into a near-total, and perhaps dangerous, cynicism? Will she go the other way, and take a near-vow of poverty, working only with the destitue? Ya' got me, but I too, along with you and Ellaria, see this as transformative for Kim.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Bannon

[shapeshifter]

It was interesting that Acker’s gate lock was only animal-proof, and that quite a few seconds of screen time were devoted to showing how easily Kim opened it. This had to have been in the script. I wonder if its significance is just symbolic/descriptive, or will it come up again?

IMDb only shows Barry Corbin as Acker in this episode. 

[dwmarch]

5 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

That doesn't mean I'm right, just that I have a conviction about it that is devoid of ambiguity.

Stealing this, it will come in handy at work.

For Nacho's dad, I have a feeling he accepts his fate because he knows the lengths the cartels will go to. If gangsters are going to murder him because of something dumb his son did, so be it. He's not going to run away and try to make a new life for himself. He knows they'll just find him and do what they were going to do anyhow plus interest for however much work it took them to track him down. It's a nice counterpoint to where Gene finds himself in the flash-forwards.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Was the beer bottle smashing a literal breaking bad by Kim?  Has she decided she can't save idiots from themselves, so there's little point in being Donna Quixote?

Was the ant scene a foreshadowing of Kim coming to a realization that it's all kind of pointless - in the end, the ants will eventually devour us?  Inevitably, we are all ice cream cones on a warm sidewalk, eh?

Another small moment that G/G created for me...When Kim was leaving Acker the first time, she kept looking in the rearview mirror.  I was thinking two main thoughts:  1)  She's heading for another catastrophic accident due to being distracted, and 2)  Who in the BCS/BB universe was tailing her (Was it Gus?  Lalo?)?

Nothing, of course, was really up, but I do love that BCS takes me to imaginative , "out there," thoughts.  

 

[peeayebee]

7 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

There is a similar situation not far from where I live. A gym and a Starbucks were built near a modest home on woodsy, undeveloped plot of land. It is an area without any sort of commercial properties in the area. Mr. Disgruntled Homeowner didn't sell initially when the redevelopment began. That was about 10 years ago. Today, there is an entire shopping/entertainment complex wrapped around his house. It is a strange site. I often wonder how it got to this point.

Reminds me of the old children's book, The Little House.

 

[Dev F]

4 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

This is so true. All I remember about the Kettlemans is the "Here's Johnny!" .I think today's showrunners and networks forget they are just TV shows; not life altering literature that I would suspend all other life events for. Then all you get is ten episodes with years in between. Especially a show that relies on events that go back 12 years; that's almost 1/5th of a human lifespan, for a TV show.

Hard disagree. I think great series television is one of the prime artistic achievements of our time, precisely because it can produce meaningful throughlines across years and dozens of episodes. The best series TV -- and I would certainly count Better Call Saul in that company -- rewards close attention and sustained analysis to a degree that's hard to match in any other art form.

[Ellaria]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Please elaborate and speculate!

I'll try but there are a LOT of great comments about Kim in this thread. She is proving to be one of my favorite characters in the BCS/BB universe.

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And yet:

• as Rhea delivered the toes turning blue line, at least 2 of us here thought it sounded like an embellishment
• cranky old Acker didn't believe her
• we have recently seen Kim misleading a client for "his own good"

IMO, perception is reality in this instance. What her childhood was actually like may not matter. What she remembers from her childhood may be another thing. And what she described to Acker may be something else entirely. Regardless, she was genuine in her desire to help him, to do right by him. She was trying to find common ground. She failed. 

3 hours ago, Tikichick said:

My question is, how close is Kim to that point?  I think the bottles point to Kim reaching the point where she's truly questioning if there's any point in trying to do the right thing.  The first night on the balcony she responsibly cleared away the bottles, all the while telling herself she would take care of business when it came to Mesa Verde, but she would still be able to achieve some good that was actually meaningful.  The second night she was frustrated that she hadn't gotten any meaningful results, even when she tried a creative and earnest approach to do some actual good within the Mesa Verde arena despite the situation.  

She walked out on that balcony, clocked the precarious position of that bottle -- and proceeded to gleefully do absolutely no good whatsoever.  Has she decided there's just no point anyway?   

Excellent comparisons. I don't think that Kim is at the point of no return but it's close. She is conflicted, both morally, professionally. She tried to guide Acker to do what Mesa Verde demanded - using different methods - and wasn't successful. She straddles the line between "right and wrong" with Jimmy. She is tired of the demands of Mesa Verde and soothes her conscience with her pro bono work but always gets back to the work that "keeps the lights on". She is being pulled in different directions constantly. It can't go on much longer.

Yes - the bottle tossing was out of frustration - a WTH move. RS is incredible in the role because her quiet frustration (and desperation) blasts thru the screen. The world is pointing her to places that she doesn't want to go.

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Not that I know for sure, of course, but it seems more in keeping with her emotions if it's a contrast to that earlier scene. She misled the other guy for his own and felt bad about it--bad about herself. (Whether the guy believed her or not probably has more to do with the person than the truthfulness of the story, since after all the last guy *did* believe her and we know she was lying.)...

...Instead it seemed to me like she was angry again, but her anger was directed outward at the world rather than at herself like it was when she lied. To me throwing the bottles was more the act of someone who had tried her best and *not* tried to cheat and it didn't work so why follow the rules? Lying really did get a better outcome for everyone.

Can't speak for Ellaria, but I would think her realizing how much she'd like a home--that is, a stable existence where she felt safe--would be important. But it also reminds us that her sympathies will always lie with the little guy because she'll always see herself that way. 

Great description of "home" for Kim. She is smart and self-confident. If I had to guess, she is probably wondering how her life ended up on it's current path. 

3 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, I think she knows she can function appropriately in the HHM or Schweikert or Mesa Verde realms, but it's not what she is happiest with.

This is a strong statement because it speaks to Kim's confidence and sense of worth. 

2 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

This scene is a nice counterpoint to her telling Jimmy that she didn't want to lie to her clients. Is she the same when dealing with the bank's clients/adversaries? Was she lying to Acker the way she lied to the 5-monther in her pro-bono work?

Kim has to make a choice, probably very soon. She needs to find a place where she is comfortable professionally, doing work that she is proud of. She needs to see Jimmy for who he is - Saul - and accept that his path long ago diverged from hers. 

Kim needs an epiphany and I suspect that Angry Acker/beer bottle throwing might push her to that point. The question in my mind is what does she reject first: Mesa Verde or Jimmy? What is her first step to self-preservation?

[Tikichick]

57 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Excellent comparisons. I don't think that Kim is at the point of no return but it's close. She is conflicted, both morally, professionally. She tried to guide Acker to do what Mesa Verde demanded - using different methods - and wasn't successful. She straddles the line between "right and wrong" with Jimmy. She is tired of the demands of Mesa Verde and soothes her conscience with her pro bono work but always gets back to the work that "keeps the lights on". She is being pulled in different directions constantly. It can't go on much longer.

Yes - the bottle tossing was out of frustration - a WTH move. RS is incredible in the role because her quiet frustration (and desperation) blasts thru the screen. The world is pointing her to places that she doesn't want to go.

Kim needs an epiphany and I suspect that Angry Acker/beer bottle throwing might push her to that point. The question in my mind is what does she reject first: Mesa Verde or Jimmy? What is her first step to self-preservation?

I don't think Kim is at the point of no return either.  I do think she is feeling supremely frustrated and really trying to decide what she wants for a future.  Significantly she seems to be ready for tangible and immediate results, NOT her typical pattern of making a plan, putting her focus on the plan and working like mad to achieve the objectives on the list.  Now there's a sense of, I've paid my dues, it's time for results.  

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Was the beer bottle smashing a literal breaking bad by Kim?  Has she decided she can't save idiots from themselves, so there's little point in being Donna Quixote?

I hope not. It would put the show out of balance for me. There has to be a counterweight to the black-hearted criminals and the characters who have lost or are losing their souls because of their own bad choices. It's not enough to have ancillary characters like Howard or Mr. Vargas who are pretty much innately good, or actively resisting destructive forces. At least one main character needs to be fighting the fight, and Kim is great because she's no Mary Sunshine, she's walked a little on the wild side with Jimmy, but she has been equally affected by things like Chuck's death and more recently the pro bono world. Maybe I just don't want to see it, but I don't think she breaks bad. If she does, and we already know where most everyone else ends up, just a little too dystopian for me. There was some sense of justice and redemption by the end of Breaking Bad, I would hope for the same here.

[DoctorAtomic]

I think it would be fairly bleak otherwise. I know it's a bleak show, but even Jessie made it out in the end.

I also strikes me that while Kim is doing her Kim things and it's too happy about it, she's seeing Jimmy succeeding at the same time, which has to grate somewhat. 

[Clanstarling]

6 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

On 3/3/2020 at 8:49 AM, icemiser69 said:

My memory is horrible.  The long hiatus between seasons isn't helping me any.

This is so true. All I remember about the Kettlemans is the "Here's Johnny!" .I think today's showrunners and networks forget they are just TV shows; not life altering literature that I would suspend all other life events for. Then all you get is ten episodes with years in between. Especially a show that relies on events that go back 12 years; that's almost 1/5th of a human lifespan, for a TV show.

Which is why we rewatch the last season before the new one. The stories are complex enough that in the interim, we've forgotten a lot of what went on. There are few shows my husband and I agree on, rarely more than one or two a "season," so it's fun for us to take it another spin around the block and find stuff we'd forgotten, or didn't notice the first time around.

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

IMDb only shows Barry Corbin as Acker in this episode. 

The first time I checked (the morning after), IMDB didn't list him at all. We had to find the credits in the episode because I recognized him, but couldn't put a name to him.

[BC4ME]

My impression is that Kim was not lying to Acker. She was clearly sincere in her attempts to help him find a new home and what she said about her childhood rang true to me. In contrast to her lying to the five monther client, her results were that when she lied she made things better for a client and when she tried to be truthful, it didn't work.  

I felt like they were trying to give us some insight into Kim's character in her story from when she was a child so I totally believed it.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't think Kim will "break bad" even though she showed a moment with Jimmy breaking the glass bottles. I think they need her to show that some people are not capable of losing their core moral values, even when pushed to the limit. Jimmy might've tried a little to be good, but ultimately he took the easy path when the going got tough. I think they need to show that we are not all Walter White under certain circumstances.

Kim is a complex character and we don't know how her story ends except that she isn't with Jimmy in BB. I'm very interested to see what becomes of her. 

[DangerousMinds]

5 hours ago, Bannon said:

This was my interpretation as well. Kim was telling the absolute truth in her story, and to be called a liar after opening up with something so deeply personal, regarding her vulnerability as a child, was just enraging, especially since she was only doing so for the benefit of the ingrateful jackass. 

Will this harden her, into a near-total, and perhaps dangerous, cynicism? Will she go the other way, and take a near-vow of poverty, working only with the destitue? Ya' got me, but I too, along with you and Ellaria, see this as transformative for Kim.

I wouldn’t call public defenders near “poverty.” 

[Ellaria]

4 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Reminds me of the old children's book, The Little House.

 

Yes...that’s pretty much what it looks like: specialty grocery store, 3-4 restaurants, movie theater and a condo complex surrounding a small brick house.

[Irlandesa]

27 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't think Kim will "break bad" even though she showed a moment with Jimmy breaking the glass bottles.

I don't think she'll fully "break bad" either.  If she did, I don't think Saul would become who he'd become or go to Oklahoma City alone. 

I can't, however, be certain that she won't end up broken.