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S05.E03: The Guy for This


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53 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you didn't know the difference, or discount why the scene emotionally resonated with you. I just kind of dislike the tendency to assume that someone in the old guy's situation didn't grasp what he was getting into. I kind of think it more likely that he understood very well, and he just doesn't, understandably,  want to move 30 years later. 

In my experience, it's pretty common that people do not foresee what will happen/how they will feel in far shorter time periods than 30 years. I mean look at so many of the events of BCS. Just now Jimmy failed to see that he was being sucked into 'when you're in, you're in.'

16 minutes ago, Adiba said:

I usually lurk here, but I had to say something about the Kim/Mr. Acker situation. I get that home is home, but why in the hell would he want to stay there, especially because all of his neighbors are gone? (Although I don't exactly see him as being life of the block party.) Also, couldn't MV just build around him?

This could be ripped from the headlines. It's happening in my area right now with some holdouts in a couple different places where conglomerates are building.

15 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

The way I look at it is the scene has much more meaning if she was telling the truth. If she was trying to pull one over on him and he still didn't fall for it, then so what? The fact that she opened up only to be shot down is what carries the emotion. Kim is a buttoned-up person. We hardly know anything about her, so to see her reveal something some personal and painful is significant.

Totally. And the way I read the bottle busting scene was that was her frustration with working for Mesa Verde, and with herself for failing to soften the blow for the guy.

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7 hours ago, gallimaufry said:

Jimmy plays really well off Lalo.  The whole subplot worked well.  

 

There is something about Saul's theatricality that makes Lalo's less annoying. Maybe because rather than seeing people nervously watching to see if he's going to go off, you've got him dealing with a Brer Rabbit type character who never stops moving/talking. Saul's got the personality Lalo thinks he has.

3 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

The cinematography and scene framing of this one were gorgeous.  I was really struck by the shot where Nacho's dad is outside eyeballing the house of ill-gotten gains and Nacho is inside looking appropriately miserable.  With it art and electronics and gray undertones, it looks like the kind of place someone like Nacho would have bought when he was finally doing well enough for himself to afford it.  It also looks like a positively miserable place to live.

 

When looking at Nacho's apartment I immediately thought about Todd's desert pastel apartment and I respect the show for that so much.

 

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2 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

In my experience, it's pretty common that people do not foresee what will happen/how they will feel in far shorter time periods than 30 years. I mean look at so many of the events of BCS. Just now Jimmy failed to see that he was being sucked into 'when you're in, you're in.'

This could be ripped from the headlines. It's happening in my area right now with some holdouts in a couple different places where conglomerates are building.

Totally. And the way I read the bottle busting scene was that was her frustration with working for Mesa Verde, and with herself for failing to soften the blow for the guy.

I don't want to belabor it too much, and it's ok for us to disagree, but unless you are dealing with a functionally illiterate person, or some unfortunate person who truly has below average cognitive abilities, there's a real difference between what people cannot forsee, and what they choose not to forsee. The old man's use of sarcasm and irony in his conversation with Kim, his willingness to assign ill motivation to Kim's story of her childhood, indicates to me that he was possessed of at least average intelligence, and probably above average intelligence. I just don't see anything which makes me think he entered into that lease in 1974 without fully appreciating what it meant. I think it more likely that he just chose to take a chance.

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1 minute ago, Bannon said:

I don't want to belabor it too much, and it's ok for us to disagree, but unless you are dealing with a functionally illiterate person, or some unfortunate person who truly has below average cognitive abilities, there's a real difference between what people cannot forsee, and what they choose not to forsee. The old man's use of sarcasm and irony in his conversation with Kim, his willingness to assign ill motivation to Kim's story of her childhood, indicates to me that he was possessed of at least average intelligence, and probably above average intelligence. I just don't see anything which makes me think he entered into that lease in 1974 without fully appreciating what it meant. I think it more likely that he just chose to take a chance.

Yes, and I wouldn't be surprised if in his mind he felt like the amount of time had passed gave him the right to assume it would go on forever. Kim's rant at him was absolutely right. He signed a contract, he agreed to these terms and nobody's actually mistreating him.

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(edited)
11 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Yes, and I wouldn't be surprised if in his mind he felt like the amount of time had passed gave him the right to assume it would go on forever. Kim's rant at him was absolutely right. He signed a contract, he agreed to these terms and nobody's actually mistreating him.

Yeah, I just think he's just mad that he has to do something he doesn't want to do, and like a lot of people who get mad about something that he doesn't want to do, he's casting about for a villain to blame, regardless of the fact that nobody is doing him wrong. I think Mesa Verde is being pretty generous, and probably would have been moreso, if the old guy had not been so self-centered, and thus been able to put himself in Mesa Verde's shoes for 5 seconds.  If he had made a reasonable counter to the 18k, my bet is that Mesa Verde would have settled. When you demand complete capitulation, without regard to what you agreed to in the past, however, you usually end up just harming yourself.  That's no way to go through life.

(edit) I also think this is part of Kim's anger. 

 

Edited by Bannon
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10 hours ago, Bannon said:

Is anyone in the BCS/BB universe ever going to have a happy life? We know the grim fates that await so many, and with the ones we are in the dark about, like Kim, it sure doesn' t  look very promising. Loved how the confrontation with Mr. Acker demonstrated, to Kim,  how the sentimental favorite, the little guy, can be every bit as much a -jerk as the big guy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t think he was a jerk, he was absolutely right.

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59 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

$7,925. Literal pocket change for Lalo. Saul sold himself cheap but he learned a lesson that will pay off in the future.

Whee, Mike basically said, "I got your gramps right here, punks." I winced to hear those bones breaking. But what kind of lame gang was that? Maybe they figured their strength was in numbers?

Not thrilled to see Hank again. I'll take solace in knowing how that cowboy egomaniac will eventually go out. (But good on Vince for giving a lot of the old crew work again.)

Obstinate Mr. Acker read Kim right proper. And then she unsheathed her claws. Great scene.

I think maybe some of it was true but her delivery was too earnest. And I think the blue toes detail is what tipped Mr. Acker off. She over-embellished and it ended up sounding like, "I walked 50 miles to school in a blazing snowstorm, uphill and barefoot."

I could be wrong, but I took it that Saul was trying to get out of the job by quoting a price that was way too high.   He couldn't have been more wrong.

I don't get the Hank hate.  Yes, he was bit full of himself and sometimes obnoxious in the beginning.  But, he was a brave, loyal and honest and he died like a man.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Frankly, I'm a little in awe of how well these writers have sewn the BCS fabric onto the BB tapestry that was started well over a decade ago. 

Yes, Vince Gilligan's incomparable ability to write believably consistent stories that go on for seasons and, now, frickin' decades (!) is what got me hooked on Breaking Bad in the first place. In this real world of so much uncertainty, chaos, and confusion, I do enjoy a real world-adjacent epoch that I know will always make sense in the end, with no hanging chads or retcons.  

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Those sad houses. 

I wish Nacho hadn't  sold his soul, lost his father's esteem,  and repeatedly risked his life  for a teenage dream of two willing girls, a red sports car, and a big ugly concrete house. 

I wish Kim, who is the hardest working person I've ever encountered, wasn't still waiting for a home of her own and if she does get one I hope it's not that cold, high ceiling place that Jimmy took her to see.  She deserves something warm and colorful, with grass and trees around it -- maybe somewhere in New England.

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17 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I could be wrong, but I took it that Saul was trying to get out of the job by quoting a price that was way too high.   He couldn't have been more wrong.

I don't get the Hank hate.  Yes, he was bit full of himself and sometimes obnoxious in the beginning.  But, he was a brave, loyal and honest and he died like a man.

 

 

100% agree about Hank. He annoyed me for the first couple episodes of BB, but ended up being one of my favorite TV characters of all time.

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8 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

 

I don't get the Hank hate.  Yes, he was bit full of himself and sometimes obnoxious in the beginning.  But, he was a brave, loyal and honest and he died like a man.

 

 

I loved Hank, he was my favorite character.

 

43 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Yes, and I wouldn't be surprised if in his mind he felt like the amount of time had passed gave him the right to assume it would go on forever. Kim's rant at him was absolutely right. He signed a contract, he agreed to these terms and nobody's actually mistreating him.

Absolutely.  I worked in a bank back when interest rates were sky high and I used to actually try to talk people out of getting loans.  Before signing promissory notes we always read the "disclosure" of the total cost of the loan over the time period.  This meant that a four year car loan for a $20,000 car ultimately would cost over 40K.  I would stress that number and they would all laugh and say, "Don't tell me that!"  Still, if they stopped making payments for six months and the bank repo-ed the car,  the bank would be the big bad guy mistreating the poor little person. 

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8 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I could be wrong, but I took it that Saul was trying to get out of the job by quoting a price that was way too high.   He couldn't have been more wrong.

I don't get the Hank hate.  Yes, he was bit full of himself and sometimes obnoxious in the beginning.  But, he was a brave, loyal and honest and he died like a man.

 

 

I think Hank might be the best written character in the history of television drama, precisely because he is so multifaceted (and the actor performs so well). Yes, Hank was at times a blowhard, a bit of a racist, and could be a jerk. He was was also capable of considerable kindness, and a loyal, loving, husband, uncle, and brother in law. He demonstrates huge courage and grit, and is made to suffer immensely via his survival of nearly unimaginable multiple traumas.  He fights through this and ultimately becomes a much wiser man, and achieves a genuine nobility, while still tragically falling prey to an incredibly harmful misplaced pride. 

Just tremendous performances from writers, actor, and directors produced Hank.

 

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26 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I don’t think he was a jerk, he was absolutely right.

I think people who believe they are entitled to ignore the agreements they entered into voluntarily are jerks.

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Regarding the ice cream cone, in addition to being a really cool shot, I thought it symbolized the good, sweet, wholesome part of Jimmy McGill, first being contaminated, then infested and then totally consumed by all his moral and ethical compromises, lies, scams and crimes, and the consequences of them that he can no longer control. 

I think Jimmy has just reached Walter White territory, where his past bad decisions and immoral choices have put him in a position where he needs to make more of them and even worse ones in order to survive.

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It's been so long since the first season, I no longer remember exactly how Nacho got involved with the drug gangs.  It does seem like all along he has been consistent in trying to protect his father, and resisting any attempts to involve or use him in the drug underworld.  He's afraid for his father, frustrated that he can't convince him to save himself - and heartbroken that he has disappointed him; that he's not the son his father wanted and deserved.  He's walking a tightrope between Lalo and Gus.  And in the midst of all that, he can still treat the obsessive (tweaking?) girl with compassion, giving her the jigsaw puzzle to occupy her. 

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24 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I don't want to belabor it too much, and it's ok for us to disagree, but unless you are dealing with a functionally illiterate person, or some unfortunate person who truly has below average cognitive abilities, there's a real difference between what people cannot forsee, and what they choose not to forsee. The old man's use of sarcasm and irony in his conversation with Kim, his willingness to assign ill motivation to Kim's story of her childhood, indicates to me that he was possessed of at least average intelligence, and probably above average intelligence. I just don't see anything which makes me think he entered into that lease in 1974 without fully appreciating what it meant. I think it more likely that he just chose to take a chance.

Yes, we clearly see it differently. I don't doubt that he would feel hostile and defensive with anyone involved. I'm happy he didn't greet her with a gun. Whether he chose to blind himself to the possibility of being out of his home or not, he has a stronger pull for me, and maybe for Kim, than a bank does. You see an old fart jerk, I see an aggrieved elder. He already lost, the bank will win/has won, the call center will be built, all will end well for them, but he will be out or perhaps die by suicide. Or as often happens with aggrieved men in our country, he takes out some hapless bystanders. People don't always act in their best interest; Exhibit A through Z: everybody in the BB/BCS-verse. Kim's first confrontation resulted in zero progress, her next idea was to help him transition, also a bust, but I think she recognized that a little compassion might be a worthwhile go at the problem. Because she doesn't just see contracts and zero-sum games, she's having her eyes opened by her exposure to the pro bono world. She must feel pretty torn.

54 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't get the Hank hate.  Yes, he was bit full of himself and sometimes obnoxious in the beginning.  But, he was a brave, loyal and honest and he died like a man.

I think it was the macho swagger that got him off on the wrong foot with some viewers, (or maybe they were just anti-authoritarian) but he was the moral compass of the non-criminals in the show.  As Jesse was eventually on the criminal side.

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(edited)

The moment with Nacho with the OCD girl was another G/G gem.

He was nothing short of sweet with her.  She messed up his remote and he was patient and understanding.  he had to be super annoyed, yet being a full-on gangster, he displayed great sensitivity.  Then, instead of expressing anger, he found a solution and gently shared it with her.  So much said and unsaid.  I loved it.

For me, it was exquisite seeing Kim embellish her less than ideal childhood into "blue toes" and whatever other exaggerations she used.  It is an indication that she is breaking bad before our eyes and seemingly can not help herself, or even know she is this far down that road.  I also very much appreciated seeing Schweikert being insistent, but no jerk, with her.  He really did need her to handle this situation personally and ASAP.  Yet, he too fashioned a good solution.  Trust me, he went way further than the average park-type founding partner in Big Law. 

Acker and Manuel Varga are entitled to their rage.  It's certainly earned.  However, if each would just take a step back and own their own arrogance, so much good could come for them personally, and for others.  Most decide to dwell in their anger.  Misery follows them like a starving puppy.  Kim and Ignacio provided them each excellent opportunity.  It is tragic they each rejected it.

Jimmy accepting the wad of cash from Lalo was a huge milestone moment in his break to evil.  It was almost on a par with his putting on his dead con best buddy's ring in Chicago, which is the moment of moments informing the rest of Jimmy McGill's ultimate life.  I was interested that TPTB chose not to show that in close up, as they did the ring moment.  80 pieces of paper (silver).

 

 

   

Edited by Lonesome Rhodes
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(edited)
2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Totally. And the way I read the bottle busting scene was that was her frustration with working for Mesa Verde, and with herself for failing to soften the blow for the guy.

And at the end of the episode, Kim and Jimmy were together, creating chaos together, and ducking responsibility for their actions together.  Better Call Saul will end after 6 seasons, but that doesn't mean Wexler & Associates can't take over. 

I admire Hank a lot too, but I still find Howard to be the more compelling character to watch.  Hank made only one big mistake--not bringing back-up to arrest Walt.  I don't think Howard has made any missteps, thus far.  

Edited by PeterPirate
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4 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The moment with Nacho with the OCD girl was another G/G gem.

He was nothing short of sweet with her.  She messed up his remote and he was patient and understanding.  he had to be super annoyed, yet being a full-on gangster, he displayed great sensitivity.  Then, instead of expressing anger, he found a solution and gently shared it with her.  So much said and unsaid.  I loved it.

I agree. The scene said so much about his character.

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9 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

  Are we supposed to deduce that she was on drugs and was urgently trying to keep busy (which is a thing), or was she just a bit twitchy and kooky without being tweaked out?  I don't know how another person such as Tuco or Lalo would have handled that situation with her, but it seemed like Nacho was being kind, even though she was probably annoying him and making him nervous.  He saw that she was struggling and needed to do something, and he handed her the puzzle to play with instead of snapping or yelling at her for almost ruining his remote!

It reminded me of Jesse getting the meth guy to dig the hole on Breaking Bad. 

I would assume that she actually was tweaked out since not only did he know the jigsaw puzzle would swallow her whole, but she was breaking the remote in order to clean it, something that I'd hope would not make sense to her when she wasn't high.

I agree, his giving her the puzzle seemed like a nice gesture, though also pretty sad to think that he both has sex with her and knows she has to be taken care of like a toddler or a puppy.

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7 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The moment with Nacho with the OCD girl was another G/G gem.

He was nothing short of sweet with her.  She messed up his remote and he was patient and understanding.  he had to be super annoyed, yet being a full-on gangster, he displayed great sensitivity.  Then, instead of expressing anger, he found a solution and gently shared it with her.  So much said and unsaid.  I loved it.

For me, it was exquisite seeing Kim embellish her less than ideal childhood into "blue toes" and whatever other exaggerations she used.  It is an indication that she is breaking bad before our eyes and seemingly can not help herself, or even know she is this far down that road.  I also very much appreciated seeing Schweikert being insistent, but no jerk, with her.  He really did need her to handle this situation personally and ASAP.  Yet, he too fashioned a good solution.  Trust me, he went way further than the average park-type founding partner in Big Law. 

Acker and Manuel Varga are entitled to their rage.  It's certainly earned.  However, if each would just take a step back and own their own arrogance, so much good could come for them personally, and for others.  Most decide to dwell in their anger.  Misery follows them like a starving puppy.  Kim and Ignacio provided them each excellent opportunity.  It is tragic they each rejected it.

Jimmy accepting the wad of cash from Lalo was a huge milestone moment in his break to evil.  It was almost on a par with his putting on his dead con best buddy's ring in Chicago, which is the moment of moments informing the rest of Jimmy McGill's ultimate life.  I was interested that TPTB chose not to show that in close up, as they did the ring moment.  80 pieces of paper (silver).

 

 

   

I don't mean to cut Jimmy slack here, in terms of ethics, but he accepted Lalo's offer in about the same way that Jack Woltz accepted Don Corleone's offer in The Godfather.

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1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't get the Hank hate.  Yes, he was bit full of himself and sometimes obnoxious in the beginning.  But, he was a brave, loyal and honest and he died like a man.

 

 

Same here.  I couldn't stand him the first season of BB, but by the end I was rooting for him to take down Walt.

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15 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The moment with Nacho with the OCD girl was another G/G gem.

He was nothing short of sweet with her.  She messed up his remote and he was patient and understanding.  he had to be super annoyed, yet being a full-on gangster, he displayed great sensitivity.  Then, instead of expressing anger, he found a solution and gently shared it with her.  So much said and unsaid.  I loved it.

For me, it was exquisite seeing Kim embellish her less than ideal childhood into "blue toes" and whatever other exaggerations she used.  It is an indication that she is breaking bad before our eyes and seemingly can not help herself, or even know she is this far down that road.  I also very much appreciated seeing Schweikert being insistent, but no jerk, with her.  He really did need her to handle this situation personally and ASAP.  Yet, he too fashioned a good solution.  Trust me, he went way further than the average park-type founding partner in Big Law. 

Acker and Manuel Varga are entitled to their rage.  It's certainly earned.  However, if each would just take a step back and own their own arrogance, so much good could come for them personally, and for others.  Most decide to dwell in their anger.  Misery follows them like a starving puppy.  Kim and Ignacio provided them each excellent opportunity.  It is tragic they each rejected it.

Jimmy accepting the wad of cash from Lalo was a huge milestone moment in his break to evil.  It was almost on a par with his putting on his dead con best buddy's ring in Chicago, which is the moment of moments informing the rest of Jimmy McGill's ultimate life.  I was interested that TPTB chose not to show that in close up, as they did the ring moment.  80 pieces of paper (silver).

 

 

   

While there are some similarities between Acker and Mr. Varga, I think Varga is on a whole other moral plane.  He is willing to risk his life to not take filthy drug money and run away.

Acker is guy who while somewhat sympathetic, has no right to remain on the property and has been offered a fairly generous and clean solution to his problems.  

The are both stubborn and full of pride, but Mr. Varga's motivations are nobler. 

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27 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I don't mean to cut Jimmy slack here, in terms of ethics, but he accepted Lalo's offer in about the same way that Jack Woltz accepted Don Corleone's offer in The Godfather.

100%

The momentousness exactly parallels Michael's doomed quest to go legit/get out.  "Once you're in, you're in." 

In the two examples I cited, I am pretty sure Jimmie/Saul did not understand the enormities.  One was certainly more of a choice, as you say.  To me, as with Judas, it's not so much the taking of the payment, it's about not atoning afterwards. 

17 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The are both stubborn and full of pride, but Mr. Varga's motivations are nobler. 

Without question, Varga is beginning his road to an incredibly bitter and angry end well behind Acker.  Yet, it's the very same road:  Pride.  It terminates at oblivion.

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24 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

While there are some similarities between Acker and Mr. Varga, I think Varga is on a whole other moral plane.  He is willing to risk his life to not take filthy drug money and run away.

I agree, and he would not even be totally safe from the cartel unless he did a full vacuum clean scenario. Gus and the Salamancas can still use implied threats to keep Nacho on a leash. That has always been the case in both shows with these guys, their families are always at risk. We saw the cousins standing on a rooftop looking over at Kaylee in the swimming pool early on in this series. I think Nacho is essentially flailing and grasping at straws to protect his father from the spot he has put him in. Tragic.

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1 minute ago, ShadowFacts said:

I agree, and he would not even be totally safe from the cartel unless he did a full vacuum clean scenario. Gus and the Salamancas can still use implied threats to keep Nacho on a leash. That has always been the case in both shows with these guys, their families are always at risk. We saw the cousins standing on a rooftop looking over at Kaylee in the swimming pool early on in this series. I think Nacho is essentially flailing and grasping at straws to protect his father from the spot he has put him in. Tragic.

Sadly, I don't see any way for Nacho, and perhaps his father as well, to get out this alive. 

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3 hours ago, Bannon said:

I don't want to belabor it too much, and it's ok for us to disagree, but unless you are dealing with a functionally illiterate person, or some unfortunate person who truly has below average cognitive abilities, there's a real difference between what people cannot forsee, and what they choose not to forsee. The old man's use of sarcasm and irony in his conversation with Kim, his willingness to assign ill motivation to Kim's story of her childhood, indicates to me that he was possessed of at least average intelligence, and probably above average intelligence. I just don't see anything which makes me think he entered into that lease in 1974 without fully appreciating what it meant. I think it more likely that he just chose to take a chance.

It sometimes takes more than just average intelligence.  He might have had to have read the contract very carefully and possibly had it explained to him by his lawyer or realtor, to understand that clause.   It is possible he wasn't aware of the clause when he signed and just signed the "standard contract" it was represented to be.  

Of course, this is a fictional character and situation, so we really have no idea how aware he was of that clause.  

I think the writers intended to present it as a situation where Acker was legally in the wrong, but still a somewhat sympathetic character, though also a bit of a jerk.  

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1 hour ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

100%

The momentousness exactly parallels Michael's doomed quest to go legit/get out.  "Once you're in, you're in." 

In the two examples I cited, I am pretty sure Jimmie/Saul did not understand the enormities.  One was certainly more of a choice, as you say.  To me, as with Judas, it's not so much the taking of the payment, it's about not atoning afterwards. 

Without question, Varga is beginning his road to an incredibly bitter and angry end well behind Acker.  Yet, it's the very same road:  Pride.  It terminates at oblivion.

But, I admire Mr. Varga's stubbornness and pride (though I fear for him).  If we all had the integrity and courage to stand up for what is right, drug dealers and other criminals wouldn't be able to thrive.   

Mr. Varga's attitude is not the problem.  The problem is that so few of us are like him. 

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1 hour ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

100%

The momentousness exactly parallels Michael's doomed quest to go legit/get out.  "Once you're in, you're in." 

In the two examples I cited, I am pretty sure Jimmie/Saul did not understand the enormities.  One was certainly more of a choice, as you say.  To me, as with Judas, it's not so much the taking of the payment, it's about not atoning afterwards. 

Without question, Varga is beginning his road to an incredibly bitter and angry end well behind Acker.  Yet, it's the very same road:  Pride.  It terminates at oblivion.

Atoning how?

32 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

But, I admire Mr. Varga's stubbornness and pride (though I fear for him).  If we all had the integrity and courage to stand up for what is right, drug dealers and other criminals wouldn't be able to thrive.   

Mr. Varga's attitude is not the problem.  The problem is that so few of us are like him. 

Exactly!

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34 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

But, I admire Mr. Varga's stubbornness and pride (though I fear for him).  If we all had the integrity and courage to stand up for what is right, drug dealers and other criminals wouldn't be able to thrive.   

 

It's really interesting to have the two men in the same episode, because Mr. Varga owns his store and is just refusing his son gifting him the money to get away so he won't be in danger--a danger that his son put him in. Nacho's guilty conscience is basically on him, though he can't control the danger.

Where as Acker doesn't own his home legally--he possibly accepted his money gift when he was enjoying it (if we assume that came along with a lowered rent) and the person he's making feel guilty is Kim who didn't cause his circumstances and doesn't have the power to control the threat to him either.

But at the core you still have two older men who find their home/business that they have put work into to be more valuable than money--which is what Nacho and Kim went for and put them in this position. (I was almost going to say "easy money" but nothing about Kim or Nacho's jobs are easy!)

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6 hours ago, Bannon said:

I may be dumb, but I just saw it as a way to portray how much time the meeting with Lalo took, along with symbolizing  the ruthless exploitation of whatever resources are readily available by individual in a society, be it a society of humans or ants, with the Edmund Hillary of ants summiting the cone symbolizing the drive to be atop the hierarchy. Eventually, the end of the episode, all value of the cone has been stripped, and the exploiters are left rummaging around, somewhat pointlessly. 

Or maybe I'm completely nuts.

Nice. Lit major?

6 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I loved the yodeling as the ants ascended the Mt Everest of ant delights. That whole sequence was amazing. The CGI was perfect. It didn't look fake at all.

I loved it too. That was some fancy, operatic yodeling, unlike the aggressive yodeling I grew up with. I also loved the light refrain when Saul returned.

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Kim seemed to be telling the truth, but the "blue toes" line just seemed a little off --but then I've never noticed if my toes were blue from cold--just blue lips--but being barefoot. . . maybe?

I haven't been barefoot in the cold. But I have been mini-skirted in below zero weather (stupid teenager). My legs were pretty blue - mottled, but definitely blue in parts. So I don't see why that couldn't have been the truth.

4 hours ago, peeayebee said:

The way I look at it is the scene has much more meaning if she was telling the truth. If she was trying to pull one over on him and he still didn't fall for it, then so what? The fact that she opened up only to be shot down is what carries the emotion. Kim is a buttoned-up person. We hardly know anything about her, so to see her reveal something some personal and painful is significant.

You mean, Saul Banks? 😉

I agree. This is a moment that seems pretty significant to me in Kim's journey. It doesn't make sense to me that it would be just a trick - Saul worthy though it may be.

4 hours ago, Bannon said:

I'll never try to tell anyone that they should like what that they don't like, or they shouldn't like what they do, but I thought all 3 episodes have been very enjoyable.

Me too. I enjoy watching the groundwork as much as I enjoy the action.

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I could be wrong, but I took it that Saul was trying to get out of the job by quoting a price that was way too high.   He couldn't have been more wrong.

I am pretty sure he was highballing it, hoping to get out of it. My husband said "are they referring to Jaggar?" I looked at him blankly and he told me the story of when Bill Gates wanted to buy "Start Me Up" for some computer launch. Mick apparently asked for a million, think it a ludicrous sum, and Gates happily bought it. (don't know if it's true, but it's a fun story)

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Regarding the ice cream cone, in addition to being a really cool shot, I thought it symbolized the good, sweet, wholesome part of Jimmy McGill, first being contaminated, then infested and then totally consumed by all his moral and ethical compromises, lies, scams and crimes, and the consequences of them that he can no longer control. 

I think Jimmy has just reached Walter White territory, where his past bad decisions and immoral choices have put him in a position where he needs to make more of them and even worse ones in order to survive.

I like this interpretation of the symbolism too. Both yours and Bannon's work, in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

But, I admire Mr. Varga's stubbornness and pride (though I fear for him).  If we all had the integrity and courage to stand up for what is right, drug dealers and other criminals wouldn't be able to thrive.   

Mr. Varga's attitude is not the problem.  The problem is that so few of us are like him. 

I totally, agree.

 I disagree with @Lonesome Rhodes for even calling Mr. Varga stubborn and prideful.   Having moral and ethical standards and the strength to stick to them isn't pride, he has the courage of his convictions.

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1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Where as Acker doesn't own his home legally--he possibly accepted his money gift when he was enjoying it (if we assume that came along with a lowered rent) and the person he's making feel guilty is Kim who didn't cause his circumstances and doesn't have the power to control the threat to him either.

I think he does own the home, there was no rent involved that I remember. He just leased the land it was built on and now the lease is terminated.

I read in a commentary elsewhere regarding the picture of the Opera House which Werner's father had worked on. The interpretation was that as Werner had come to work on the superlab sort of following in the footsteps of his father, so Mike's son had followed in his father's footsteps, and both ended up dead. I would have never thought of that. Really adds to the poignancy of that scene in the bar.

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58 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I agree. This is a moment that seems pretty significant to me in Kim's journey. It doesn't make sense to me that it would be just a trick - Saul worthy though it may be.

Also, why would she really need to trick him? She had already done her job. She was going back to try to make it better for the guy, wasn't she? To make him not see her as the bad guy. Saul also wants people to like him, but he only pulls out that kind of bs when he's trying to get someone to do something. I guess it seems like Kim really did want to be seen as a real person in that moment so it wouldn't mean anything if she was just tricking him with a fake sob story.

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3 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Also, why would she really need to trick him? She had already done her job. She was going back to try to make it better for the guy, wasn't she? To make him not see her as the bad guy. Saul also wants people to like him, but he only pulls out that kind of bs when he's trying to get someone to do something. I guess it seems like Kim really did want to be seen as a real person in that moment so it wouldn't mean anything if she was just tricking him with a fake sob story.

I agree.  I don't think she was trying to trick him.  She was trying to make things better for the old coot.  Now, maybe she might have embellished her story a bit (though I'm not so sure) to get him to accept her help.  But, even if she was, that would have been a good use of her superpowers.   He was getting evicted soon one way or another.  She was trying to make it as painless as possible.  

29 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I totally, agree.

 I disagree with @Lonesome Rhodes for even calling Mr. Varga stubborn and prideful.   Having moral and ethical standards and the strength to stick to them isn't pride, he has the courage of his convictions.

I think Mr. Vargas had the GOOD kind of pride and stubbornness.   Proudly and stubbornly standing up for what is right is a virtue, not a vice.  

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he died like a man

His death was probably premature though. IMO if he hadn't decided to call Marie and brag instead of taking Walt directly to jail, things likely would've gone much better for him and Gomez. I saw his hubris as largely his undoing.

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(edited)

OMGosh. I just read a tweet that the ant sequence was all real. They had an ant wrangler. Y'know, I thought those ants looked real but just didn't think it could be, for some reason.

Edited by peeayebee
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I know on earlier episode threads, a lot of people expressed the opinion that they didn’t listen to showrunner podcasts, etc., but I was seriously checking my feed to get the inside scoop on those ants!

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4 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

You see an old fart jerk, I see an aggrieved elder.

Heh, the two are not mutually exclusive. 
 

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

But, I admire Mr. Varga's stubbornness and pride (though I fear for him).  If we all had the integrity and courage to stand up for what is right, drug dealers and other criminals wouldn't be able to thrive.

Historically in this country, those who tried to stay on their ancestral lands lost out to those who descended from people who abandoned their own ancestral lands. Odds are that both Mr. Varga and Mr. Acker would be better off cutting their losses and going somewhere new, but it seems that both will lose their homes but that neither will choose to leave and so will likely lose everything. If they were younger and had young children to think about, no doubt both would be gone by now. 

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25 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

His death was probably premature though. IMO if he hadn't decided to call Marie and brag instead of taking Walt directly to jail, things likely would've gone much better for him and Gomez. I saw his hubris as largely his undoing.

I don't think that was hubris, more like fate or horrible luck.

He was just calling the woman he loved to let her know he caught the devil and everything was going to be OK.

If he hadn't made that call, things might have gone a lot better for Walt.

Jack and the Nazis probably still would have arrived before Hank got Walt out of there.

If Marie hadn't told Skyler and made her tell Walt Jr, Walt might have been able to sell them on some BS story about needing to disappear for some other reason. (Probably different stories for Skyler and Jr.)

Nobody would have known what happened to Hank and Gomey.  

Marie would have known that Hank was trying to nail Walt, but not that he succeeded.  By the time she reported him missing, Walt probably could have disappeared with the whole family, and Marie would never really know what happened to Hank. 

 

 

 

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He was just calling the woman he loved to let her know he caught the devil and everything was going to be OK.

Do law enforcement officers typically stop in the middle of an arrest to call the victims to let them know everything would be okay now? I'm guessing probably not and don't see why Marie was entitled to special treatment just because she was Hank's wife. As it was Hank was sort of going rogue with his personal operation to take Walt down. Once he had Walt I should think he would've wanted to move back inside the lines to make sure the arrest stayed solid.

Quote

Marie would have known that Hank was trying to nail Walt, but not that he succeeded.  By the time she reported him missing, Walt probably could have disappeared with the whole family, and Marie would never really know what happened to Hank. 

If Hank had followed standard operating procedures, he would've called the situation in to his agency and they would've been expecting him. Maybe he could've even requested backup since he knew Walt was likely to pull something he didn't see coming. But no, Hank had to put acting like a macho cowboy braggart before doing his job and IMO it got him and Gomez killed.

I appreciate though that here on BCS we're getting a view into how Hank ended up with that persona. It would seem he wanted to be a big fish in a small, fetid pond which happened to be the location of a huge, international drug enterprise.

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14 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Do law enforcement officers typically stop in the middle of an arrest to call the victims to let them know everything would be okay now? I'm guessing probably not and don't see why Marie was entitled to special treatment just because she was Hank's wife. As it was Hank was sort of going rogue with his personal operation to take Walt down. Once he had Walt I should think he would've wanted to move back inside the lines to make sure the arrest stayed solid.

If Hank had followed standard operating procedures, he would've called the situation in to his agency and they would've been expecting him. Maybe he could've even requested backup since he knew Walt was likely to pull something he didn't see coming. But no, Hank had to put acting like a macho cowboy braggart before doing his job and IMO it got him and Gomez killed.

I appreciate though that here on BCS we're getting a view into how Hank ended up with that persona. It would seem he wanted to be a big fish in a small, fetid pond which happened to be the location of a huge, international drug enterprise.

If Hank had followed SOP, he would have been fired and possibly gone to prison, if they believed Walt's "confession" DVD.

Walt was doing things the only way he could save his career and get hard evidence against Walt.

He was going to call it in, now that they had Walt's taped phone call to Jesse, in which he confessed to numerous murders and other crimes.

He told Walt he was going to call in a team to find Walt's money.  He just took a moment to call his wife, who had gone through Hell with him. In that call, he told her that he would probably be tied up with the DEA for hours and wouldn't be able to talk to her.

I can't believe calling your wife to tell her you were safe, but would be late for dinner and, by the way, just nailed a mass murderer who was ruining their lives could be considered "hubris".  It was a combination of common courtesy and love.

Hank had no reason to suspect an army of Nazis would be coming to rescue Walt and kill Hank and Gomey.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Bryce Lynch
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1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Also, why would she really need to trick him? She had already done her job. She was going back to try to make it better for the guy, wasn't she? To make him not see her as the bad guy. Saul also wants people to like him, but he only pulls out that kind of bs when he's trying to get someone to do something. I guess it seems like Kim really did want to be seen as a real person in that moment so it wouldn't mean anything if she was just tricking him with a fake sob story.

 

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree.  I don't think she was trying to trick him.  She was trying to make things better for the old coot.  Now, maybe she might have embellished her story a bit (though I'm not so sure) to get him to accept her help.  But, even if she was, that would have been a good use of her superpowers.   He was getting evicted soon one way or another.  She was trying to make it as painless as possible.    

If Kim's objective was to make the guy not see her as the bad guy, and if her true story was not all that endearing, I can see her making something up on the fly.  Sure, she went back and offered her own money, but that didn't work.  So maybe, maybe not, she did a little embellishing.  I don't have an opinion about whether Kim told a white lie at that moment.  But we do know that she has deliberately lied and misled other people in the past when it suited her interests.   

25 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I appreciate though that here on BCS we're getting a view into how Hank ended up with that persona. It would seem he wanted to be a big fish in a small, fetid pond which happened to be the location of a huge, international drug enterprise.

I did come away from the episode feeling somewhat disappointed, that we didn't get the real Hank.  But yeah, maybe we'll see him morph into that as he utilizes his new CI to score some high-profile busts.  

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31 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

So maybe, maybe not, she did a little embellishing.  I don't have an opinion about whether Kim told a white lie at that moment.  But we do know that she has deliberately lied and misled other people in the past when it suited her interests.   

This is exactly what I was wondering about. Was there any embellishing? And it's her past that made me think it. 
But after reading this:

3 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I haven't been barefoot in the cold. But I have been mini-skirted in below zero weather (stupid teenager). My legs were pretty blue - mottled, but definitely blue in parts. So I don't see why that couldn't have been the truth.

...it seems less likely she embellished.
Right about now I would like to hear and episode podcast.

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15 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

On a lighter note, I laughed when Saul was relieved he was needed for legal help and not to swallow condoms filled with drugs, and Lalo replies, "maybe later."

And speaking of Lalo, I think I have a crush on him. Does that make me a bad grandma-aged person?

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3 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Atoning how?

The first and most necessary piece of the process is to examine one's own actions.  Are they coming from a righteous place, or perhaps, however well-intentioned, are they actually coming from a darker place?

Hubris being ruinous is a central theme of BB and BCS.  In most all cases, the motives seem super clear, as is the evil involved.  Sometimes, not so much. Varga would most assuredly be in the "not so much" category.  

There is no questioning Manuel's physical courage.  He long ago decided to take on evil with little regard for his mortality.  Darn commendable, almost always.  Yet, fighting a fight not intended for one is not a good.  My point is that perhaps this particular stand is one of those occasions.  Maybe he was to accept compensation and then use such to go out and perform many goods.  He would be one heckuva mentor or vocational educator, eh?  Serving in this manner would be a pretty great path of atonement for whatever sins one may have committed.  Of what use is he if he is dead? 

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I totally, agree.

 I disagree with @Lonesome Rhodes for even calling Mr. Varga stubborn and prideful.   Having moral and ethical standards and the strength to stick to them isn't pride, he has the courage of his convictions.

Did he really and truly have the courage of his convictions?  For example, did he never accept customization jobs from bangers flush with cash?  It would be a shock to me if he did not. 

I'd bet anything he would readily admit to not being a perfect man.  So, it becomes a matter of which standard(s) to which he scrupulously adheres, and why.  On the surface and quite obviously, not taking "blood money" for any reason is a strong and good ethic.  The funny thing about morality is that often requires a deeper scrutiny/discernment.  It is said that the Deity works in mysterious ways.  Using evil proceeds for good has been a hallmark of this aphorism for centuries.

For me, and given the central theme of pride going before falls in the G/G universe, along with their predilection for examining and dramatically exploiting layered lives and behaviors, the question of Acker's and Varga's true motivation is open.  No worries at all if anyone sees a cigar being a cigar when it comes to either or both characters.  YMMV!  

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