S08.E08: Ex-Best Man, Ex-Best Friend

[TattleTeeny]

I didn't posit that she was correct--though I guess in order to do some battery, the assault part is attached? But no aggravated.

Edited February 26, 2020 by TattleTeeny

[teapot]

It makes me sad that Jax got a "Tom, Tom & I" tattoo, once upon a time....although Jax probably has many tattoos for people he doesn't talk to anymore.

I've never been clinically depressed, so I get that I'm so ignorant, but holy fuck, Ariana would be exhausting to be around!  I know that's why the stigma even exists, so I'm at least a self-aware asshole about it???

Beau was hanging out with Katie & Lala?  I didn't know he got to go out & play by himself!!

I know Lisa's mom died, which was why she was talking to Jax & Brittany.  I also know that this is a TV show.  But, it was kind of rude when she went, "I'm going upstairs now."  You don't walk them out?  Or at least have Ken walk them out?  Nah, just leave 'em in the living room.

[LibertarianSlut]

9 hours ago, SarahPrtr said:

Okay, so I've been out of the dating life for 20 years and I'm a dinosaur, but I didn't know about dating multiple people at the same time and having sex with all the people you're dating and that, that was acceptable until you had 'The Talk' with the one you liked the most, about being exclusive.  Isn't that just plain exhausting???  Again, I'm thinking with my old, dinosaur brain, so I'm tired already.

Oh, I am sorry, I didn’t mean to word my post about Max and his exclusivity and priority so ambiguously.  I was not implying that exclusivity does not entitle one to be “a priority.”  I mean quite the opposite—that Max is completely full of shit when he defined “exclusivity” to mean that the person with whom you’re exclusive is “a priority,” because they should be so much more than that.  Literally everything in our lives is a priority.  He should be saying she’s the priority, or why the hell did he make himself exclusive with her?  He wants the storyline, but he also wants to wag his pickle at coeds.  

I think it’s often overlooked how much people can get hurt from casual sex.  I put just as much blame on Dayna though, for not defining the term with Max and asking what is the difference between “exclusive” and “boyfriend and girlfriend” and assessing whether her needs would actually get met by this arrangement.  Women are so afraid of looking needy that they often play it too cool and they get hurt.  If a guy can’t have a serious conversation with you, why the hell even bother sleeping with him?  (IMO)

9 hours ago, SarahPrtr said:

Most definitely about the alcohol.  Depression and alcohol don't mix, even though it may seem like alcohol would help relax you. No. No. Just No.

 

What if it's chemical and taking SSRI is needed?  What if taking them makes her so much better?  Why keep wasting your time doing nothing and just whining about it?  At least see a doctor once.  Given the depression storyline, I'm sure Lisa can find and pay for one of the 10000000000000000000000 psychiatrists in Los Angeles.

 

I do understand being skeptical about seeing someone (if that's the case).  Of course I had to be the 1% of the people who don't respond to therapy and the depression wasn't chemical-related, so no meds ever did anything.  But if they came out with a new medication tomorrow which sounded like it could help me, I would take it in a heartbeat. 

I agree with you, and I understand it too.  I have a type of depression that none of the SSRI’s (or other anti-depression meds) help.  My anxiety is helped by meds, but not my depression.  Talk therapy has some very limited results in helping manage it, but no eradication yet.  

Ariana is a grown adult woman and I think it’s time that she got into regular, serious therapy, though, because therapy and medication are often very successful.  Her display from this episode reminded me of the displays I used to have when I first became depressed—I thought it was an outer problem, like society was doing something to me, instead of the truth, which was that I have misperceptions about society, so I would get angry and cut people out of my life and every so often speak sharply to someone.  Oh, and I was 14 years old, so, yeah, I’m kinda gonna judge her for acting this way at 30-something, even if it is authentic, and it’s my opinion that it’s at least partially not, for the reasons others articulated.  If we’re using the standard that everything foul that these people do or say can be rooted in depression, everyone gets a pass, not just Ariana, because maybe their depression hasn’t reached the level of consciousness yet.  I think we all have to take responsibility for our behavior, and that was a babyish, ugly meltdown.  

9 hours ago, SarahPrtr said:

“More equal than others" - omg, that's brilliant!  May I use that? 🙂

And I agree with everything you've said in your post.

Yes, you can use it since you agree with me.  

Kidding!  Yeah, it’s a paraphrase from a quote from Animal Farm, that book about totalitarianism that high school kids are assigned, and only half of them read it.  I didn’t even read it in high school, but now that i realized how Orwellian this show is (see my rant from last week), shit like that keeps popping into my head.  It’s funny that it came up, because after you wrote that post, I heard a podcaster say it about a politician, and I’m like, damn, people are out-equaling each other all over the place!

@TattleTeeny, oh I see where you are coming from now.  You were saying it’s not agg assault, and I was reading something else.   I wasn’t even multitasking.  Sorry.

Edited February 26, 2020 by LibertarianSlut
Reading comprehension

[TattleTeeny]

No worries--don't be sorry! 

Off topic: when I picture "assault," for some reason the person is always brandishing a caveman-like club. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

5 hours ago, SarahPrtr said:

I don't care what the person looks like if he/she's kind and generous, because kindness shows up on the person's face and instantly make them beautiful, but I really don't believe that Randall's that way.

I TOTALLY agree with you here.  For example, I would leap at the chance to date Dan Conner (Roseanne, The Conners) or Dr. John Sturgis (Young Sheldon).

[Mr. Miner]

54 minutes ago, teapot said:time....although Jax probably has many tattoos for people he doesn't talk to anymore.

 

 

I know Lisa's mom died, which was why she was talking to Jax & Brittany.  I also know that this is a TV show.  But, it was kind of rude when she went, "I'm going upstairs now."  You don't walk them out?  Or at least have Ken walk them out?  Nah, just leave 'em in the living room.

Yes! Ken could have at least yelled GOODBYE BRITTANY & JAX! 🙄

[hoodooznoodooz]

32 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I think it’s often overlooked how much people can get hurt from casual sex.  I put just as much blame on Dayna though, for not defining the term with Max and asking what is the difference between “exclusive” and “boyfriend and girlfriend” and assessing whether her needs would actually get met by this arrangement.  Women are so afraid of looking needy that they often play it too cool and they get hurt.  If a guy can’t have a serious conversation with you, why the hell even bother sleeping with him?  (IMO)

Wow. You unearthed something in me. It hurt me more than once. 

I discussed prostitution with a very intelligent young man my freshman year at college. 

I said, “But she’s only having sex with him because he is giving her money. She has no feelings for him whatsoever.”

He laughed and said, “Guys don’t care!”

[watcherwoman]

I'm a dinosaur too, haven't dated in over 40 years.  I find everyone on this show confusing. I understand Ariana and Dayna are Bi, which is good for them, but has Lala come out and said she was Bi?  Chomping on Ariana's cookie doesn't sound like something a straight girl would do.  Well, not by myself or anyone I know.  I do remember Lala saying she was attracted to big beefy black dudes so she couldn't see herself screwing James, she wasn't attracted to his type.  Why Ariana then?  Too much alcohol?  Maybe she's used to having sex for money, so just doesn't care?  What about Kristen?  She supposedly went down on Brittany according to loud mouth Jax. Kristin hasn't said she was Bi, but maybe that's yet to come.

Tom Sandoval seem so be the common denominator for the Bi girls, which makes perfect sense to me.  He is a very pretty dude.  Although I think the only real love story on this show is between Sandoval and Schwartz.  

[Callaphera]

2 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

On a somewhat related note, I don’t understand why they keep applying the word “homophobic” to the pastor.  A phobia is an irrational fear.  I don’t see any evidence that the pastor is afraid of, let alone irrationally afraid of, gay people.  If they think he’s anti-gay, why don’t they just say “anti-gay”?  Again, sometimes ratcheting down the rhetoric is more effective to get people on one’s side.

ho·mo·pho·bi·a (/ˌhōməˈfōbēə/) noun - dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people. (Google definition)

or

Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). (Wikipedia defition)

or

Homophobia definition is - irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals. (Merriam Webster definition)

It's not a case of "literally" being used as "figuratively" - the definition has evolved to be all-encompassing. It's the way the word is used now. (For the record, the pastor is also transphobic and we can assume biphobic.)

[LibertarianSlut]

A lot of words are back-loaded into dictionaries, or their definitions are altered, simply because they’ve been (mis)used enough, such as “irregardless” and “conversate.”  I think it’s slang that has been accepted into society, but it’s not accurate.  

Someone who is “phobic” has an extreme or irrational fear or aversion to something.  Tacking “phobic” onto something when someone doesn’t have this fear is not correct.  I’m not just going to accept that Ancient Greek has changed because Google or Webster has decided to include it, although if others want to, more power to them.  

In Desmond Tutu’s book on forgiveness that he wrote with his daughter, he said that sometimes words are used so incorrectly, and for so long, that they need to be rehabilitated.  HIs example was the word “love.”  He said he was afraid to even use the word “love,” because it has been so misused, thus it might be misunderstood by his readers, but he said he was in a place to rehabilitate it.  

I just think it would make more sense to accurately describe something.  I think this is how we got into the “literally vs figuratively” mess in the first place.  People were using the wrong words so often, that when they finally used the right ones, they felt that had to put “literally” before their words in order for them to mean anything.  If we accept “homophobic” as synonymous with “anti-gay,” what happens when a person who is actually afraid of gay people—who is running around hiding from them—comes along?  We will call that person “literally homophobic.”  

People can say whatever they want.  I just think that word choice is very important, and no one tends to help their cause when they use inflammatory language when words that adequately convey their ideas are already available.  I always look for hidden motives when I feel like a definition is being tortured.  

So I cringe when anyone on the show says it, but all I can do is add my two cents and move on.  

[Callaphera]

13 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Someone who is “phobic” has an extreme or irrational fear or aversion to something.

a·ver·sion (/əˈvərZHən/) noun - a strong dislike or disinclination.

I think you just argued my point. The pastor has a strong dislike, which is an aversion, which is a phobia, which brings us back to "homophobia".

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Callaphera

[LibertarianSlut]

I think we’re using slightly different definitions for aversion, but assuming your definition for “aversion” is correct, I don’t agree that Ryan Dotson has made public statements that show he has an aversion to people who are same-sex oriented.  I’ve already done my homework in that area, and I don’t have more to say about it at this time.  I understand you see it differently.  Agree to disagree.  

[HeddaGabler]

I can barely muster enough interest to comment on those new ones, and I really don't care if they date each other or band together to smother Scheana with a pillow.
 

All these people don't read or give themselves any intellectual (and I use that term very liberally) input — maybe if they did, they would have something interesting to say or do. They've run out of ideas to be entertaining, and drinking themselves into hysterics doesn't seem to work anymore. 

[Callaphera]

Just now, LibertarianSlut said:

I don’t agree that Ryan Dotson has made public statements that show he has an aversion to people who are same-sex oriented.

Riiight, because he has a black gay friend. I love how that makes everything okay. 

1 minute ago, LibertarianSlut said:

assuming your definition for “aversion” is correct

You can Google it. It's correct. In fact, every definition on the first page of results agrees with the definition I gave you so. 

[HeddaGabler]

I forgot to add, I literally LOL'd when Jax and whatsername drove all the way from the suburbs to Lisa's house for 30 seconds. They let themselves in, seated themselves nervously, got the news and had to show themselves out. And they were honored, lol. 

Oh, and that pastor definitely made statements that demonstrates his aversion to the LGTBQ community: https://www.buzzfeed.com/laraparker/this-pastor-who-has-made-transphobic-and-racist-remarks  It's pretty clear where he stands. But did we really expect the bride and groom-to-be to have any kind of skills to manage conflict resolution of this sort? They handled it about as poorly as I would have guessed (basically wished it away until someone with some authority over their livelihood told them to knock it off).

[b2H]

14 minutes ago, HeddaGabler said:

But did we really expect the bride and groom-to-be to have any kind of skills to manage conflict resolution of this sort? They handled it about as poorly as I would have guessed (basically wished it away until someone with some authority over their livelihood told them to knock it off).

But sadly, in the interest only of the show, they will continue to be front and center and the rest of the cast will have to accept that the two of them are ignorant a-holes.  I don't want to give up this show, as I do enjoy parts of it, but the banshee screaming (a la Just Jack on Will and Grace) from the two of them is getting on my last nerve and just needs to stop.

ETA:  at least Jack had the good sense to use the banshee scream only occasionally.  With these two, it's every damned thing every damned day.  Just elope already and get out of my face!

Edited February 26, 2020 by b2H

[HeddaGabler]

6 minutes ago, b2H said:

But sadly, in the interest only of the show, they will continue to be front and center and the rest of the cast will have to accept that the two of them are ignorant a-holes.  I don't want to give up this show, as I do enjoy parts of it, but the banshee screaming (a la Just Jack on Will and Grace) from the two of them is getting on my last nerve and just needs to stop.

I agree -- I mentioned upthread that the drunken hysterics are no longer entertaining. I really don't find the rest of the case any less ignorant, sadly. I also wonder if Lisa VdP is just burned-out at this point. I feel like she has lost her witty approach to things, and isn't really a catalyst to this bunch anymore. She just enters a room like some dusty fairy godmother and then leaves. She's really phoning it in.

[b2H]

18 minutes ago, HeddaGabler said:

I agree -- I mentioned upthread that the drunken hysterics are no longer entertaining. I really don't find the rest of the case any less ignorant, sadly. I also wonder if Lisa VdP is just burned-out at this point. I feel like she has lost her witty approach to things, and isn't really a catalyst to this bunch anymore. She just enters a room like some dusty fairy godmother and then leaves. She's really phoning it in.

I'll give her a pass - the family losses she's experienced in the last year or so are pretty substantial and would take the wind out of anyone's sails.  I know she's not broken hearted over losing RHOBH - those women were just awful and now that show is deteriorating pretty badly.  I'm pretty convinced she left at the right time.

She'll bounce back at some point.  I can understand her grief well enough to accept her being a little less than herself of late.

Edited February 26, 2020 by b2H

[MissFeatherbottom]

6 minutes ago, b2H said:

I'll give her a pass - the family losses she's experienced in the last year or so are pretty substantial and would take the wind out of anyone's sails.  I know she's not broken hearted over losing RHOBH - those women were just awful and now that show is deteriorating pretty badly.  I'm pretty convinced she left at the right time.

She'll bounce back at some point.  I can understand her grief well enough to accept her being a little less than herself of late.

I give a pass too. Not to make this about myself, but after losing my mom a few years back, I  had to put a brave/happy face on and just keep going as best I could. I would imagine someone like LVP is having to stand strong b/c she does so much with her businesses and with this show that she would just not have the energy to deal with the petty drama on the show this season.

[cheewhiz]

.

 

[Jennifersdc]

5 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I agree with you, and I understand it too.  I have a type of depression that none of the SSRI’s (or other anti-depression meds) help.  My anxiety is helped by meds, but not my depression.  Talk therapy has some very limited results in helping manage it, but no eradication yet.  

Ariana is a grown adult woman and I think it’s time that she got into regular, serious therapy, though, because therapy and medication are often very successful.  Her display from this episode reminded me of the displays I used to have when I first became depressed—I thought it was an outer problem, like society was doing something to me, instead of the truth, which was that I have misperceptions about society, so I would get angry and cut people out of my life and every so often speak sharply to someone.  Oh, and I was 14 years old, so, yeah, I’m kinda gonna judge her for acting this way at 30-something, even if it is authentic, and it’s my opinion that it’s at least partially not, for the reasons others articulated.  If we’re using the standard that everything foul that these people do or say can be rooted in depression, everyone gets a pass, not just Ariana, because maybe their depression hasn’t reached the level of consciousness yet.  I think we all have to take responsibility for our behavior, and that was a babyish, ugly meltdown.  

Yes, you can use it since you agree with me.  

Kidding!  Yeah, it’s a paraphrase from a quote from Animal Farm, that book about totalitarianism that high school kids are assigned, and only half of them read it.  I didn’t even read it in high school, but now that i realized how Orwellian this show is (see my rant from last week), shit like that keeps popping into my head.  It’s funny that it came up, because after you wrote that post, I heard a podcaster say it about a politician, and I’m like, damn, people are out-equaling each other all over the place!

 

That’s Mr. DC too. He has serious depression. They’ve spent years changing up his meds to some success and he’s in talk therapy 2X a week. Like you I think it helps the anxiety most - but the depression is always there to some extent. He’s a Libertarian too BTW!

It breaks my heart as we are lucky enough (American, upper-middle class white background and existence) to have things and opportunities most of the world could only dream of.

I’ve realized how lucky I am not to be wired that way at all. I easily move on from any bump in the road - but I still tell him it’s not an excuse to be an asshole. I believe anyway he gets that from my FIL (who I’m very fond of - but apparently he’s mellowed as he aged). 

He’s still my soulmate and I love him to death. He’s also funny as hell. We basically agree on everything and like the same stupid shit (see 90DF - he’s not into the Chucklefucks as much, but I think he wants to watch Sister Wives - which is where I draw the line).

Long story short (or longer) - I do feel for Ariana. Although I never really liked her or her smug “cool girl” attitude. We don’t really know if she’s in therapy or not. Reality TV is obviously not the best thing for her, but unfortunately it’s her paycheck. 

I think her boyfriend though is a self-righteous, self-important asshole.

I also enjoyed the Animal Farm reference.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Jennifersdc
ETA - the “newbies” are boring as fuck and they can get off my screen at anytime.

[heatherchandler]

15 hours ago, Iris987 said:

So..... That's Randall.

I've seen pictures of him, obviously, but I was hoping he'd have some sort of charisma. Or a unique sense of humor or anything that would make Lala less craven. It's not the gold standard of trophy wifery (thank you Anna Nicole Smith) but still. He's just a schluby guy who has bought his way onto the "cool" kids table through his fiancée. Also, he's best mates with Jax. Which leads me to Jax. What a fucking asshole. I know this fight is bullshit and it's just a storyline but the way he is attacking Ariana as a part of it is vile. I think the problem is that Ariana has never liked him and never changed her opinion. She has always seen him for exactly what he is and someone like Jax can't handle that. I'm also getting really tired of the sexuality jabs. Dude, you were a bottom rung Florida Rent Boy for years. At least Ariana isn't using her attraction to women to finance chunky sweater purchases. Pipe down.

Yeah that's the thing, Jax and Britney are AWFUL AWFUL people and I think it is difficult to pretend to like them. 

 

14 hours ago, Callaphera said:

How do you present depression "authentically"? What makes Ariana's flavour of depression "inauthentic"? Is it because she's not weeping in bed with unwashed hair surrounded by Burger King wrappers? Because the cameras don't follow her to any doctor or therapist appointments if she has them? There's no Yolanda Hadid Drug Closet of Doom to be shown? My depression isn't the same as (hypothetically) your depression isn't the same as that person's depression isn't the same as the other person's depression. 

Yeah I believe she is truly depressed, and then to hear that her "friends" are making comments saying that she is a wet blanket, or whatever, I think that's the straw that broke the camel's back.  She is already very unhappy and struggling - to then get the eye rolls and fucking bullshot comments, I would be spinning out too. 

FUCK off Lala, I realize she is as fake as they come, and a try-hard asshole. 

 

7 hours ago, chenoa333 said:

Those four simple words that describe everyone on this show.

I'm going to give LVP a pass on this because her mother died recently.  But I still think she's an a$$hole too. 

I don't recall who the poster was that stated up thread that Jax still snorts cocaine, but I'm believing it. I hope his babies aren't born addicted.

I don't know if that's how it works.. 

He is definitely high as a kite on coke in every scene.

 

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, watcherwoman said:

but has Lala come out and said she was Bi?  Chomping on Ariana's cookie doesn't sound like something a straight girl would do.  Well, not by myself or anyone I know.  I do remember Lala saying she was attracted to big beefy black dudes so she couldn't see herself screwing James, she wasn't attracted to his type.  Why Ariana then?  Too much alcohol?  Maybe she's used to having sex for money, so just doesn't care?  

If Jax is going to talk about anyone's sexuality changing on a dime, it should be Lala. Her type changes constantly. Her type was big beefy Black guys when she was dating Hayes Pulliard. Her type was Jax when they were filming season 4. Fortunately or unfortunately, Jax had coke and whiskey dick so badly that they couldn't have sex. She said Schwartz was her type throughout season 4 just to piss Katie off. In some season 6 unaired footage, Lala said she's not really into women, but the women she sleeps with tend to look just like Brittany and have Brittany's body type. Lala then had sex with Ariana, who is physically nothing like Brittany. Now Lala is into and in love with Rand. Lala's only type is money and attention.

[LibertarianSlut]

1 hour ago, Jennifersdc said:

That’s Mr. DC too. He has serious depression. They’ve spent years changing up his meds to some success and he’s in talk therapy 2X a week. Like you I think it helps the anxiety most - but the depression is always there to some extent. He’s a Libertarian too BTW!

It breaks my heart as we are lucky enough (American, upper-middle class white background and existence) to have things and opportunities most of the world could only dream of.

I’ve realized how lucky I am not to be wired that way at all. I easily move on from any bump in the road - but I still tell him it’s not an excuse to be an asshole. I believe anyway he gets that from my FIL (who I’m very fond of - but apparently he’s mellowed as he aged). 

He’s still my soulmate and I love him to death. He’s also funny as hell. We basically agree on everything and like the same stupid shit (see 90DF - he’s not into the Chucklefucks as much, but I think he wants to watch Sister Wives - which is where I draw the line).

Long story short (or longer) - I do feel for Ariana. Although I never really liked her or her smug “cool girl” attitude. We don’t really know if she’s in therapy or not. Reality TV is obviously not the best thing for her, but unfortunately it’s her paycheck. 

I think her boyfriend though is a self-righteous, self-important asshole.

I also enjoyed the Animal Farm reference.

Oh, that’s so great that you’re so supportive of your husband, and that he’s really doing grown-up work to get his bearings!  I’m encouraged to hear that a man is doing this too, because I think that society sometimes skews therapy toward women.  And I think it means he really loves you if he’s getting the help.  My husband—who is a libertarian too—got some help awhile back because he wanted to make our marriage even better.  It’s an act of love.  

My husband and I agree on everything too, including these completely fucked up reality shows!  I implore you to watch Sister Wives, not because it’s good, I won’t lie, but the board is so on point and hilarious!  Their facade is finally falling and it’s so good.  Kind of like this show...

I still watch this show, because I’m Bravo’s bitch, but I’m glad the gild is off the lily, because these people really are the worst.  There’s hardly a redeemable one in the bunch.

I can say this now, because it’s over, but last season I was digging Ariana and Brittney (head firmly in hands).  Would it be too many flower metaphors for me to say the bloom is all the way off those roses?  Ugh.

The best thing I can say about this season is that everyone else’s abhorrent behavior is making the Witches of We-Ho (and their partners) seem positively charming.  Yes, I am including Beau in this.  I am so ashamed.  

The new people are such an epic fail.  I wouldn’t even know where to begin with them.  I hope we get a nice short season.  They all make me feel I need to shower with Lysol. 

[Mr. Miner]

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

 

Yeah I believe she is truly depressed, and then to hear that her "friends" are making comments saying that she is a wet blanket, or whatever, I think that's the straw that broke the camel's back.  She is already very unhappy and struggling - to then get the eye rolls and fucking bullshot comments, I would be spinning out too. 

FUCK off Lala, I realize she is as fake as they come, and a try-hard asshole. 

 

I think Lala is a total poser. But I’ve seen Ariana make plenty of condescending comments, eye rolls and act like the smartest person in the room since she appeared on the show. Add that to the fact that her boyfriend is a huge tool and I have a hard time finding empathy for her. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Mr. Miner

[Jennifersdc]

3 hours ago, HeddaGabler said:

I forgot to add, I literally LOL'd when Jax and whatsername drove all the way from the suburbs to Lisa's house for 30 seconds. They let themselves in, seated themselves nervously, got the news and had to show themselves out. And they were honored, lol. 

Oh, and that pastor definitely made statements that demonstrates his aversion to the LGTBQ community: https://www.buzzfeed.com/laraparker/this-pastor-who-has-made-transphobic-and-racist-remarks  It's pretty clear where he stands. But did we really expect the bride and groom-to-be to have any kind of skills to manage conflict resolution of this sort? They handled it about as poorly as I would have guessed (basically wished it away until someone with some authority over their livelihood told them to knock it off).

Oh shit. I didn’t realize the extent of it. I actually only saw the one post. Social media ain’t my thing - don’t even have Facebook. I’m pretty sure the Catholic priest who married me (he actually entered and left the Priesthood shortly thereafter to get married - interesting story), would have ever posted on Twitter or thought something like that. Especially the one about going to play ball and do other “manly activities” with young boys who may want to play with dolls and dress up (see bad Catholic joke).

I actually have never met a single Catholic (including the real ones), who condone that shit. A couple of the “real” ones are gay and very active in the Church. We might be the religion that seems most ignore much of the “official” doctrine (see birth control etc.)? The bad joke from above was definitely not in the official doctrine. Maybe that’s why many of us can’t take some of their BS seriously. 

I’m originally from Long Island, NY and we’re either Jewish or Catholic (or both now since we’ve been interbreeding for the past 50 years). I’ve been enough to both services and I’ve never heard anybody from the pulpit even slightly mention how homosexuality is dooming the world or how to raise your children in the “right” gender. Much needed Score 1 for Catholics. Jews are already far ahead. I’m a European history laymen. Also Score 10 for Methodists who appointed a transgender Deacon that got the Pastor all worked up.

I’m still saying it’s mostly how you’re raised. And I’m not going to blame her for wanting her Pastor/family friend to marry her and wanting to excuse his old Tweets when he told her he really didn’t believe that. She’s not that bright.

Sandoval still’s a self-important, self-righteous asshole.

Mod - am I still OK on the religious stuff? Won’t mention it again.

 

[FozzyBear]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Miner said:

I think Lala is a total poser. But I’ve seen Ariana make plenty of condescending comments, eye rolls and act like the smartest person in the room since she appeared on the show. Add that to the fact that her boyfriend is a huge tool and I have a hard time finding empathy for her. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

 

 

So I said this from Ariana’s first season, she seems like someone who requires a lot of attention. Like A LOT of attention. Which makes her not at all different from anyone else on the show. I can’t imagine anyone who doesn’t like the spotlight regardless of how they get it would have much patience for reality tv. However, unlike Stassi or Brittany or Lala or Jax or Sandoval or even Katie and Schwartz she won’t just admit she’s a dramatic little brat who starts to suffer from FOMO 30 seconds after waking up. Instead she plays these games where everyone has to spend tons of time telling HER how much better she is than THEY are. It’s a recurring theme where Ariana demands attention in the form of people making a big deal about how cool it is that she’s not a dramatic girl that demands attention. Sort of makes her perfect for Sandoval since he’s not the bright and he loves that kind of double think mind game (Orwell reference for Libertarian Slut. By the way for like a solid year I thought your name was Librarian Slut. I’m a librarian myself and completely approved), but I can see it being exhausting for others. I absolutely think Arianna does suffer from depression and I think hers is probably pretty bad right now since she seems to feel stuck in a life she can’t get away from, but I also think she is absolutely that friend who has a crisis when good things happen to you so that you always spend your birthday or graduation or whatever telling her how awesome she is.hopefully you have friends that love you regardless and accept that as a part of you processing information (my brain can do that sometimes. Too much stuff, good or bad, becomes anxiety and depression) but that’s a significant ask and Ariana has made it clear she doesn’t like these people so...

[Iris987]

43 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I can say this now, because it’s over, but last season I was digging Ariana and Brittney (head firmly in hands).  Would it be too many flower metaphors for me to say the bloom is all the way off those roses?  Ugh.

All of these people are filth. It comes down to degrees of awfulness for me. James is the worst. He is vicious, untalented, gaslighting the dolt he's in a relationship and a rapist (I'm not letting go of that one). Slightly under him is Jax who is sociopathic, dumb as shit, unfaithful and also gaslighting the dolt he's in a relationship with. You go down the list and at the bottom, for me, is Ariana. While she is smug, a buzzkill (though not this season) and kind of dull I like that she has always removed herself from the hive mind of these people. I think part of her issues at the moment stem from the fact that she started to care about what they thought. She was upset about Stassi and the airport in Florida whereas previously she wouldn't have given a crap that they were slagging her off. I also like that she's fairly loyal to her friends. She stayed friends with James and was the only one nice to Lala when she hooked up with her meal ticket. I wouldn't really want to be friends with her in real life. But amongst these people she's an absolute legend.

[LibertarianSlut]

43 minutes ago, FozzyBear said:

So I said this from Ariana’s first season, she seems like someone who requires a lot of attention. Like A LOT of attention. Which makes her not at all different from anyone else on the show. I can’t imagine anyone who doesn’t like the spotlight regardless of how they get it would have much patience for reality tv. However, unlike Stassi or Brittany or Lala or Jax or Sandoval or even Katie and Schwartz she won’t just admit she’s a dramatic little brat who starts to suffer from FOMO 30 seconds after waking up. Instead she plays these games where everyone has to spend tons of time telling HER how much better she is than THEY are. It’s a recurring theme where Ariana demands attention in the form of people making a big deal about how cool it is that she’s not a dramatic girl that demands attention. Sort of makes her perfect for Sandoval since he’s not the bright and he loves that kind of double think mind game (Orwell reference for Libertarian Slut. By the way for like a solid year I thought your name was Librarian Slut. I’m a librarian myself and completely approved), but I can see it being exhausting for others. I absolutely think Arianna does suffer from depression and I think hers is probably pretty bad right now since she seems to feel stuck in a life she can’t get away from, but I also think she is absolutely that friend who has a crisis when good things happen to you so that you always spend your birthday or graduation or whatever telling her how awesome she is.hopefully you have friends that love you regardless and accept that as a part of you processing information (my brain can do that sometimes. Too much stuff, good or bad, becomes anxiety and depression) but that’s a significant ask and Ariana has made it clear she doesn’t like these people so...

This is the most apt description of what is bothering me about a Bravo character that I couldn’t articulate that I may have ever read.  It is tied with the post last year that described LVP’s lifestyle as a five year old’s fantasy, and everything about her life seeming oddly fake, right down to her plastic Joan Collins look (everyone thinks my name is Librarian Slut, btw, and I am a total library slut, so I accept that name cheerfully too.  I think it’s awesome that you’re a librarian.  Party Girl is one of the best movies about the library, if you haven’t seen it!).  

30 minutes ago, Iris987 said:

I think part of her issues at the moment stem from the fact that she started to care about what they thought. She was upset about Stassi and the airport in Florida whereas previously she wouldn't have given a crap that they were slagging her off.

Brava to this too.  (I agree with you that James is the most toxic character, which isn’t said much).  I noticed this shift in Ariana as well.  When they were showing flashbacks this episode, she seemed so much happier, more independent, and...prettier.  Probably because she was taking better care of herself mentally, and it shone through.  I also am not a fan of the short haircut.  I used to think she was one of the most beautiful women on Bravo, not just this show, with the most endearing smile, and some light has gone out in her that has clouded her beauty.  

The guy who appeared on WWHL with Sandoval last night made a little jab about how ugly her hat was when she was having the breakdown, and Flat Iron was silent, but steaming.  I’m sure this guy, I forgot his name, just doesn’t, like, take hats seriously, like literally at all.  (He likely doesn’t take playing the trumpet seriously enough either).  

I can’t say there’s no schadenfreude about Ariana.  She and Tom gaslighted Kristen when she was right that they were cheating behind her back.  And I know Kristen was a cheater herself, but I always had a soft spot for her, and I think Ariana was terrible to her for a long time.  Even, what, two seasons ago, when she didn’t “give a fuck” about Stassi and said it right to her face, unprovoked,  I was like, oh, that’s a fine thing to say, and I wasn’t even a big Stassi fan.  I just didn’t know where Ariana got off with the way she treated people and if the chickens are coming home to roost, I’m not going to lose sleep over it.  

[Mr. Miner]

I watched WWHL last night and it felt like Tom and Adam Pelle we’re not fans of each other, and I enjoyed it.

[Thumper]

Who did James rape?  (Not a long-time viewer.)

[Iris987]

It wasn't on the show, but Lala. She went on a podcast and was asked about if she had slept with him. She said yes, they had a big night out and she passed out. The next morning she saw a used condom or some telltale sign and asked him and he said 'Oh yeah, we were so blind drunk and had sex'. One of the guys interviewing her said 'that's rape' but she was very clear that she didn't see it that way. I, however, do.

[ErikaAlyson]

I’ve never been a Ariana fan lol. Tom can do better than her, he’s way more into her than she is into him. Schwartz is a good friend to tear up about his “friendships” he really cares. I can’t believe Brittany wants to marry Jax, he’s not a very nice guy to her. 

[Chalby]

On 2/23/2020 at 8:32 PM, hoodooznoodooz said:

 

  Hide contents

Max with Dayna.

 

I am not sure why this is hidden given the exchange was in the show, but despite the show's 'editing' Max may not use the word 'exclusive' as his go-to, but he did admit that he does not want to be intimate with any other woman, and if he goes somewhere that states he may invite a +1, he would like Dayna to go. Frankly, neither of them is that interesting to me or the storyline.

[hoodooznoodooz]

48 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I think it’s awesome that you’re a librarian.  Party Girl is one of the best movies about the library, if you haven’t seen it!).  

Party Girl is one of my favorite movies, period. Parker Posey is perfection. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

1 minute ago, Chalby said:

I am not sure why this is hidden given the exchange was in the show, but despite the show's 'editing' Max may not use the word 'exclusive' as his go-to, but he did admit that he does not want to be intimate with any other woman, and if he goes somewhere that states he may invite a +1, he would like Dayna to go. Frankly, neither of them is that interesting to me or the storyline.

I hid it because I posted before the whole episode aired. I caught it in the “Next time on Vanderpump Rules....” last week.

Dayna could do a lot better. The only thing he has done that was evenly mildly interesting was say, while listing her appealing qualities, that she was funny, which was actually a bad thing, because he wanted to be the funny one.

[Chalby]

While watching Jax and Britney out for dinner with Lala and Randall, I felt my stomach immediately tense and twist when Jax starting going off on Britney in a nonsensical rant that she wasn't being on 'his side' and she was making him 'look like a goof', NO JAX, you do that all on your own.

Given how quick he was to melt down and talk-over anything Britney or Lala tried to say shows me he has not changed, nor will he, ever. He's a bully and is emotionally abusive as soon as he thinks he's not being agreed with. He flies off the handle and makes knee-jerk decisions he shouldn't make, and then abuses Britney for being against him for not quickly defending his idiotic choices.

Clearly, Sandoval touched a nerve when he asked if LVP was the only reason Jax and Britney got rid of the pastor (because LVP posted something).  But for Jax to leap up and run away, tells me Tom was correct. I don't buy Ariana's insistence that the pastor personally affected her, nor Sandoval's timing with the question, but everyone should be allowed to question Britney and Jax on why they ignored the pastor's homophobic tweets in the months prior to LVP saying something. And Sandoval is correct in saying everyone feels they have to walk on eggshells around the engaged couple for the past YEAR because Jax keeps blathering on about HIS WEDDING, and how everyone should be catering to him and Britney.

Britney should not marry this loser, and although she says she's sick of people being hateful to her and telling her 'not to do it', maybe she should pause for a moment and realize, gosh with so many thousands telling me not to... maybe "I SHOULDN'T DO THIS!" Does Britney even realize that Jax brings out the worst in her? He makes her appear ignorant.

[hoodooznoodooz]

How have we neglected to comment on Lala’s blue fringe outfit?

[Chalby]

39 minutes ago, Iris987 said:

 'Oh yeah, we were so blind drunk and had sex'. One of the guys interviewing her said 'that's rape' but she was very clear that she didn't see it that way. 

I agree! If dismissing it makes Lala feel better about what happened, that fine for her and her coping skills. However, any fellow who has the wherewithal to use a condom before having sex with a drunken, passed-out friend, has just raped her. James is a pig and I hope Raquel dumps his leeching arse.

[albarino]

13 minutes ago, Chalby said:

 'Oh yeah, we were so blind drunk and had sex'. One of the guys interviewing her said 'that's rape' but she was very clear that she didn't see it that way. 

I believe this episode is one of the many reasons Lala decided to quit drinking (and good for her).

This show is starting to be "not watch" TV.  The original gang has moved on and I don't care about their suburban lifestyle.  They are so stupid we've seen several of them watering their lawns with a hose.  Install sprinkler systems or go to Ace Hardware and purchase actual sprinklers.  Idiots.  I think we only saw Scheanna once in her car (telling Brett he shouldn't go out to dinner with another new chick) and we didn't see Kristin.  No wonder Tom and Ariana are working really hard on storylines but I don't buy what they're selling. Watching Tom keep having to clench his jaw on WWHL was priceless though!

I don't care very much about the new kids either.  I can't tell the new guys apart, and frankly, the story about the kitchen staff (chefs, sous-chefs, dishwashers, etc.) would be much more interesting to me.

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, Iris987 said:

It wasn't on the show, but Lala. She went on a podcast and was asked about if she had slept with him. She said yes, they had a big night out and she passed out. The next morning she saw a used condom or some telltale sign and asked him and he said 'Oh yeah, we were so blind drunk and had sex'. One of the guys interviewing her said 'that's rape' but she was very clear that she didn't see it that way. I, however, do.

That’s weird, on the show she said she remembered drunkenly making out, and deciding why not fuck him, and “flopping open her leg” to do so.  Anyone else remember this?  I remember the barfy visual. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by heatherchandler

[Iris987]

1 minute ago, heatherchandler said:

That’s weird, on the show she said she remembered drunkenly making out, and deciding why not fuck him, and “flopping open her leg” to do so.  Anyone else remember this?  I remember the barfy visual. 

https://jezebel.com/vanderpump-rules-lala-kent-says-the-blackout-drunk-sex-1748209792

 

I can't remember her description on the show about it, though. You made me think maybe I'd remembered it wrong and was holding a grudge over nothing. But google is always our friend and I found it and I stand by my seething contempt of White Kanye.

[heatherchandler]

17 minutes ago, Iris987 said:

https://jezebel.com/vanderpump-rules-lala-kent-says-the-blackout-drunk-sex-1748209792

 

I can't remember her description on the show about it, though. You made me think maybe I'd remembered it wrong and was holding a grudge over nothing. But google is always our friend and I found it and I stand by my seething contempt of White Kanye.

That’s weird, she definitely claimed to remember it on the show.  

[hoodooznoodooz]

20 minutes ago, Iris987 said:

https://jezebel.com/vanderpump-rules-lala-kent-says-the-blackout-drunk-sex-1748209792

 

I can't remember her description on the show about it, though. You made me think maybe I'd remembered it wrong and was holding a grudge over nothing. But google is always our friend and I found it and I stand by my seething contempt of White Kanye.

Oh, dear. Did you see where Lala says, “I just felt, like, I mean, good for you”?

If that is in response to James telling her that he had sex with her while she was blackout drunk, that sounds a lot like a person who has very little respect for herself or her body. Which I guess we already knew. I wonder if something horrible happened to her years ago.

[princelina]

8 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Oh, dear. Did you see where Lala says, “I just felt, like, I mean, good for you”?

If that is in response to James telling her that he had sex with her while she was blackout drunk, that sounds a lot like a person who has very little respect for herself or her body. Which I guess we already knew. I wonder if something horrible happened to her years ago.

Did she say blackout or passed out?  I've seen both referenced here - passed out means lying there unconscious, but blackout drunk means she could have participated but not remembered in the morning.

[hoodooznoodooz]

3 minutes ago, princelina said:

Did she say blackout or passed out?  I've seen both referenced here - passed out means lying there unconscious, but blackout drunk means she could have participated but not remembered in the morning.

In that Jezebel article she says, “I was so blackout drunk, I don’t remember one thing.”   

I guess another possibility is that Lala just doesn’t think sex is a big deal? 

[Iris987]

It depends on her definition of blackout, which we'll never get. I think he's the type of weasel who would look at a profoundly intoxicated woman and see it as an opportunity. Especially because he was obsessed with her at the time.

Lala makes me sad. Maybe Randall treats her well now that they are both sober but their interaction this episode was just her humoring a kind of embarrassing relative. Maybe he'll get better with time (I probably wouldn't be my authentic self if you started filming me) but he needs to give us the opportunity to get to know him. Which means not ordering two huge portions of fried chicken at a restaurant and then probably doing blow in the bathroom with Jax. That heart attack he faked with Fofty seems more authentic if he's living like that.

[HunterHunted]

57 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

That’s weird, on the show she said she remembered drunkenly making out, and deciding why not fuck him, and “flopping open her leg” to do so.  Anyone else remember this?  I remember the barfy visual. 

That's pretty much how she described it on the show. It was season 5 episode 1. I haven't watched it again. My recollection is that she said they were drinking, making out, she flopped her legs open, and let him hit it. When she was mad at him last season she said something along the lines of "he should be lucky that she ever had sex with him." I have the incident in this weird holding pattern because her description of it tends to vacillate and she doesn't view it as assault.

[SarahPrtr]

 

12 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Oh, I am sorry, I didn’t mean to word my post about Max and his exclusivity and priority so ambiguously.  I was not implying that exclusivity does not entitle one to be “a priority.”  I mean quite the opposite—that Max is completely full of shit when he defined “exclusivity” to mean that the person with whom you’re exclusive is “a priority,” because they should be so much more than that. 

I think it’s often overlooked how much people can get hurt from casual sex. 

Oh no, I just meant that I was unfamiliar with the dating rules until I read articles about dating in general.  Even if I were still single, I would only be dating one person at one time and wouldn't be with him unless we were heading towards marriage.  Sounds too serious and extreme, but well, that's what I wanted from being in a relationship and I'm grateful that my husband felt the same way AT the same time (timing! Thank you!).

 

And definitely agree on the casual sex thing.  You could ALWAYS get pregnant and catch an STD.

 

12 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I agree with you, and I understand it too.  I have a type of depression that none of the SSRI’s (or other anti-depression meds) help.  My anxiety is helped by meds, but not my depression.  Talk therapy has some very limited results in helping manage it, but no eradication yet.  

Yeah, talking makes things worse for me and I've found it more useful to share some of my stories regarding depression online and reading other people's posts.  You get a more broad range of experiences from different people.

 

3 hours ago, Chalby said:

I agree! If dismissing it makes Lala feel better about what happened, that fine for her and her coping skills. However, any fellow who has the wherewithal to use a condom before having sex with a drunken, passed-out friend, has just raped her. James is a pig and I hope Raquel dumps his leeching arse.

Yeah, it can get fiddly to put on even when you're fully sober and awake, but to be almost passing out but being able to put a condom on?! Bullshit.

 

2 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

In that Jezebel article she says, “I was so blackout drunk, I don’t remember one thing.”   

I guess another possibility is that Lala just doesn’t think sex is a big deal? 

Remember how Vail from season 3 was talking about blackouts being God's way of saying "Don't worry about it"?  It IS a big deal and you should definitely worry about it.

 

That whole part about Lala unknowingly having sex with James reminded me of a scene from a 90s movie called KIDS where Casper had sex with (raped) Jennie whilst she was passed out after taking ketamine.  Chilling.

[yourmomiseasy]

21 hours ago, Jets4274 said:

Only those of us who've suffered from severe depression can understand how Ariana feels.  I hope that she continues to get all of the love and support she needs.  Sandoval can be a pain to watch at times but he seems like a genuinely nice and caring person.

Jax is an asshole.  He could have at least made Schwartz his best man but instead chose Randall who's a "great friend" because he's flown him on a private jet to exotic vacation destinations?  Pul-lease. Lala must feel like shit talking about Ariana to later understand where those mixed emotions stemmed from. 

Can't help but think that Jax is on some chemical substance at times such as at that dinner.  His eyes seem to bug out and he goes off for no reason.  And Brittany is just plain annoying. Getting too big for her britches, I think. 

Schwartz is best man all by himself instead of being co-best man with FI like he was originally.  Randall is just a groom's man.

 

If Lala says she wasn't raped, maybe we should believe her?  Just like we should believe a woman when she says she was, maybe we should believe one when she says she wasn't.  We can still hate James and think he's vile.

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by yourmomiseasy