S24.E09: Week 9 - Overnight Dates (Australia)

[ljenkins782]

23 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

I get the history. I do. But there's nothing controlling to me about someone, male or female, saying I'm not proposing to or accepting a proposal from someone who just slept with multiple other people the same week. That's just being sane. Madison and Luke have just highlighted the absurdness of this whole process and why most of the final pairings don't work.  Over two decades of the bachelor and only one bachelor has married his final one, and he was abstaining. Colton's the only other one with his final one and he too kept it in his pants. This isn't a coincidence. 

This show is like bizarro world, no one in real life would be cool with knowing that their fiancé slept with 1 or more other people days before proposing. I didn't see it as an ultimatum, she had to tell him before the other dates because it would be a moot point afterward. Peter was upset about it because he thought he had a free pass and learning that there might be consequences harshed his buzz.

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Well, this and the fact that, once the cameras leave, the show stops paying for elaborate dates, and they actually spend real time together, they realize they're actually horrible together.

I'm assuming this is referring to Victoria, who will definitely bail as soon as the cameras turn off, but I laughed out loud at their "we've been through SO much already..." conversations. What exactly have they been through? 4 weeks of free vacations with a couple of contrived arguments? Yeah, that's really riding the waves of turmoil, they can face anything if they can overcome all that! 

I will say though, that I actually like the Victoria that I see in the end tags. In those relaxed moments, she seems kinda fun. But when she's very conscious of the cameras, she's excruciating to listen to.

Hannah Ann is super dull to me. She's doing the plastic, generic "fun girl" routine, throwing her head back and laughing at everything with no actual feeling behind it. She's saying all the right things to "win" this show, but there's no there there.

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Peter is disgusting. Like, I almost need to look away from the screen, I'm so grossed out by him. I can hardly even place what it is. Something about his boyish face mixed with him constantly having his hands on the girls' faces and in their hair, insisting on touching foreheads while he "talks" to them, and by talk I mean stare intensely at them while they're trying to express feelings and then interrupt them with a middle school makeout. I felt this way watching his amateur moves on Hannah's season (when he got on top of her in the sauna it looked like a freshman practicing his moves). I would cringe at the thought of him even touching me.

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For me, it's all of this and his stupid WOOHOO-ing and his dumb rolling his arms in the air dad dancing. He cannot be off my tv screen soon enough.

 

All of this, plus that gesture that he constantly uses when he announces anything, he throws his arms out wide like a giant doofus. But the forehead touching and grasping the girls by their faces is super annoying too, especially with Madison last night. She told you ahead of time how she'd feel, you knew that and did it anyway, but then act like SHE's "throwing it all away"? He was doing his best to change her mind about something she'd already stated was important to her and it was gross.

[Dirker]

As someone said earlier, the show version of an engagement is not anything like a real engagement, even if it was kind of sort of close in the early season. It's super-weird to me that anyone sees it as real.

As someone else said, it's just asking someone to "go steady" and give it some sort of try in the real world. I don't think there's anything wrong with "dating around" if everyone knows what is going on, and of course that is how the show works.

Sleeping with more than one person is not that uncommon, although usually the agreement to be exclusive comes first. 

I can't see actual marriage between Peter and any of the final three.  Not Madison, since they will never be on the page faith-wise. He might go along with it for a while, while she kids herself that he'll come around eventually, but he will never be anything like her father, which is what she wants, and she will never be like his mother, which is what he wants. Maybe he & Hanna could have a decent thing, but, again, he's not her father. He & Victoria could work for a while, but the first conflict, real or imagined or manufactured by one of them, would probably break it. They are at the same level in many ways, though - they really are the most alike, and she is the most like his mother, so maybe?

[sadie]

I just hate this guy. You can see the smug superiority he feels when these girls tell him they “love him” and how offended he is that Madison hasn’t said it. It’s that cocky grin and how many times he opines about how them fawni g over him makes him feel so so good. Blech.

[Cornhusker12]

30 minutes ago, sadie said:

I just hate this guy. You can see the smug superiority he feels when these girls tell him they “love him” and how offended he is that Madison hasn’t said it. It’s that cocky grin and how many times he opines about how them fawni g over him makes him feel so so good. Blech.

The amount of relief he gets from their words of affirmation is sad and worrying. And he CLEARLY correlates drama with 'passion,' as if you have to have drama to have a deep love for some one. I can't help but agree with the people who have thrown the theory that it's a reflection of his relationship with his mom haha. I mean, he still lives at home with his parents. His mom has been loving the spotlight during his time on the show. She seems to have a BIG dramatic personality and has been shown sobbing multiple times. I can't even remember ONE other parent being shown over the years, let alone being in on the hysterics. 

Doesn't take a psychologist to connect the dots and think he's got some serious arrested development going on and he could use some time to move out, grow up, and be independent if he actually wants to find real love any time soon.

[nittany cougar]

I felt like I was watching a bad episode of "Days of our Lives."  What was the deal with the extended montage of Peter holding Madison.  She is such a fragile flower.  Her virginity dilemma is so terrible and gut wrenching. 

I question how much of an emotional connection can these people have after a few weeks of fantasy dates that they are so upset.  Madison and Peter acted like they just made a decision to end their 10-year marriage.  How much of it is real emotion and how much is producer staging.

[nutty1]

9 hours ago, Cornhusker12 said:

Oh yeah I remember her! I liked her in that season, didn't she get screwed out of being the Bachelorette at the time as well? I wonder if she'd still be interested now, considering the zero options I can possibly imagine from this season.....

She is engaged.

[call me ishmael]

On 2/26/2020 at 7:14 AM, dirtypop90 said:

Madison has the benefit of watching Luke P last year. She was being very careful with her words and not just saying what she felt because of the hate Luke got. She was almost putting forth her rebuttal to the Luke P haters I.e. “I’m not judging you” “there are just my standards.” I wonder if she would of put it that way if she didn’t know what happened to Luke last year. 
 

she was fumbling all over the place and unable to spit it out because she didn’t what the backlash if she said what she really thought

There is no evidence that I can think of for this interpretation.  She has not been getting involved in the drama, is not judging other contestants, and not telling Peter she knows what is best for him--all things Luke did.  I suppose you could take it as evidence that since she has done none of this stuff that means that she really wanted to but figured out the bachelor game and has artfully plotted her season long triumph by deceiving everyone but then at the last minute suddenly hadn't thought through what she was going to say despite her approach throughout the season.  But I don't see it.  

[dirtypop90]

2 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

There is no evidence that I can think of for this interpretation.  She has not been getting involved in the drama, is not judging other contestants, and not telling Peter she knows what is best for him--all things Luke did.  I suppose you could take it as evidence that since she has done none of this stuff that means that she really wanted to but figured out the bachelor game and has artfully plotted her season long triumph by deceiving everyone but then at the last minute suddenly hadn't thought through what she was going to say despite her approach throughout the season.  But I don't see it.  

I was explaining why I thought she was so careful with her words and struggled to spit it out during FS, not speaking on her behavior generally. I think she was being careful with her words during the FS discussion. I don’t think it’s crazy to believe she watched the season peter was on. The Luke drama happened not even a year ago and it got a lot of coverage. She had to be concerned what people would say about her after Luke P knowing she held the same beliefs re sex.

[call me ishmael]

32 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

I was explaining why I thought she was so careful with her words and struggled to spit it out during FS, not speaking on her behavior generally. I think she was being careful with her words during the FS discussion. I don’t think it’s crazy to believe she watched the season peter was on. The Luke drama happened not even a year ago and it got a lot of coverage. She had to be concerned what people would say about her after Luke P knowing she held the same beliefs re sex.

I understand that.  But i think given her behavior all season and the fact that she hadn’t been announcing her virginity or her sexual history that she is a fairly normal 23 year old trying to figure out how to tell someone something that he really is not going to like in front of cameras and a large crew.  She has been private about this all season (again unlike Luke).  Are you really surprised that she might be inarticulate in the moment?

[Wandering Snark]

1 hour ago, dirtypop90 said:

The Luke drama happened not even a year ago and it got a lot of coverage.

Again, you are assuming that she saw said coverage. Not everyone lives of social media and message boards. It's not as if it was front page news. It still easier for me to go with call me ishmael's pov here. She's not very good at conversing about her feelings. Ans sometimes conveying the thing that is the most important to us is the hardest thing to do. I doubt she was thinking "Oh damn, I'm just like that Luke P without the misogyny and rage and we allll know what happened to him on twitter! How ever am I going to say this to not sound like that blowhard jackhole?"

[dirtypop90]

36 minutes ago, Wandering Snark said:

Again, you are assuming that she saw said coverage. Not everyone lives of social media and message boards. It's not as if it was front page news. It still easier for me to go with call me ishmael's pov here. She's not very good at conversing about her feelings. Ans sometimes conveying the thing that is the most important to us is the hardest thing to do. I doubt she was thinking "Oh damn, I'm just like that Luke P without the misogyny and rage and we allll know what happened to him on twitter! How ever am I going to say this to not sound like that blowhard jackhole?"

She applied to the bachelor when the season was airing. Most contestants watch to see who might be bachelor. She claimed she was hoping for peter. So she watched if we believe her 

[dirtypop90]

1 hour ago, call me ishmael said:

I understand that.  But i think given her behavior all season and the fact that she hadn’t been announcing her virginity or her sexual history that she is a fairly normal 23 year old trying to figure out how to tell someone something that he really is not going to like in front of cameras and a large crew.  She has been private about this all season (again unlike Luke).  Are you really surprised that she might be inarticulate in the moment?

Saying she’s a virgin and saying she didn’t want peter to have sex with anyone else are two separate things. She’s struggled explaining the latter. She explicitly said she didn’t want peter to think she was shaming or judging him. Like Luke was accused...

JMO but I believe while she was thinking all those weeks about how she would tell peter her views, how luke was treated was something she was thinking about. She said she was going for peter, not sure I believe her, but that would mean she watched his season. 

[Mrs. DuRona]

What kind of an upside down world are we living in where Victoria is making sense?!  She's still crazy, though.  And kind of sad. 😕

It's been a few days since we watched it, so I don't have a lot of thoughts on it other than Madison really should have told him sooner about her convictions re: sex.

 

 

Also, I was listening to my favorite band, Jukebox the Ghost (shameless plug!), and there's a song on their first album called "Victoria".  Listening to it in the context of the show is spot.on.

Lyrics here.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Mrs. DuRona

[halkatla]

I adore Madison, she´s Emily Maynard level beautiful, loves the Lord etc etc but I think she should see a speech therapist. I can barely understand what she´s saying and if you count all the likes that come out of her mouth it´s about 50/50 if you compare "like" and all the other words. It´s such a flaw in almost all the girls who go on this show now. To be completely honest with myself, I just didn´t like Madi in this episode, she didn´t explain herself to Peter in the long segment in the beginning of the show, she kept mumbling incoherently as he kept asking her "what are you trying to say? what are you trying to tell me?" and it was just so stupid. Then when she walked away from him during their date after finally telling him the stuff that should have been brought up way before, I got the sense there was some fakeness going on with her. Hopefully it is all just a setup so that she can become the Bachelorette (for once I´m fine with that), because her and Peter are completely incompatible and I don´t want Peter to choose someone who obviously isn´t as into him as he is into her. It´s kind of awkward to watch him being played by so many of the women, especially Victoria. Madison is obviously a good person so I don´t want to group her in with Victoria, but she has been playing Peter (but maybe it´s impossible to date him without playing him, he´s so simple).

This type of stuff rarely happens on the show, it´s nice to have some real drama but if Madison is to become the bachelorette she needs to learn how to talk properly. I´m worried that she can´t lol.

At this point I totally ship Peter and Hannah Ann, they look good together and she´s very cute just like he is. And he wouldn´t have to work so hard to be with her. There´s not some insane pressure to become a pastor/leader of the family straight away.

Edited February 28, 2020 by halkatla

[waving feather]

Hometowns and this episode really changed my mind about Hannah Ann. I used to think she's just this young, immature and sorta dull girl but now I think she's just reserved and level headed. I like that she doesn't stir up unnecessary drama and her personality suits Peter's the most. Her expression when she was talking to Madi was gold.

I didn't mind Madison telling Peter about her convictions and the ultimatum, because he's the one she's dating. But I cringe when she brought it up to the other 2 girls. It shows insensitivity and immaturity on her part. She's so concerned about her own feelings that she forgot she's talking to the two ladies that Peter might have done those intimate things with. So, how is that supposed to make them feel? She really didn't think. And I didn't like how she gently probed into how Hannah Ann's date went. It was uncomfortable for all involved.

Madi annoyed me this episode starting from when she had no guts to tell Peter how she really felt after the rose ceremony. He kept trying to get a straight answer out of her but she kept saying things and then negating herself. Then during the fantasy suite date she sang a slightly different tune. It's almost like she was testing him and was pissed that he failed the test. Hate to break it to Madi but there is no way Peter will pass any of her tests. They are so incompatible. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by waving feather

[Wandering Snark]

5 hours ago, halkatla said:

I can barely understand what she´s saying and if you count all the likes that come out of her mouth it´s about 50/50 if you compare "like" and all the other words

Agreed about her being basically unintelligible. Counting her 'likes' would be a chore of epic proportion. 

Not sure if anyone is watching Spy Games, but on there one contestant was sent with an alias to act out on a blind date. When she gets nervouse she strokes her hair. They told her "Are you aware you played with your hair 156 times during that date?" I'm sure the number was just said for impact not that someone was counting; but it reminded me of the "like" epidemic on this show! Has nobody every said to them: "Do you realize you just said "like" 10 times in that sentence?

[LilDumplin]

Madison had to know he was the 4 times in a windmill guy for fucks sake! He has a reputation to live up to on his own season, a record to break.  

He couldn’t wait to get into Victoria’s swimsuit (thanks for this image burned into my brain, Sharleen!), surely his boner was a topic of conversation after this... it was a group date and if I recall correctly, they were all watching this photo shoot. Madison was on that group date.

If she just ignored all of this blatant evidence of his horn dogness, then that’s on her. This dude was not going into a fantasy suite without getting some.

Edited February 29, 2020 by LilDumplin

[Dejana]

23 hours ago, waving feather said:

Hometowns and this episode really changed my mind about Hannah Ann. I used to think she's just this young, immature and sorta dull girl but now I think she's just reserved and level headed. I like that she doesn't stir up unnecessary drama and her personality suits Peter's the most. Her expression when she was talking to Madi was gold.

I didn't mind Madison telling Peter about her convictions and the ultimatum, because he's the one she's dating. But I cringe when she brought it up to the other 2 girls. It shows insensitivity and immaturity on her part. She's so concerned about her own feelings that she forgot she's talking to the two ladies that Peter might have done those intimate things with. So, how is that supposed to make them feel? She really didn't think. And I didn't like how she gently probed into how Hannah Ann's date went. It was uncomfortable for all involved.

Madi annoyed me this episode starting from when she had no guts to tell Peter how she really felt after the rose ceremony. He kept trying to get a straight answer out of her but she kept saying things and then negating herself. Then during the fantasy suite date she sang a slightly different tune. It's almost like she was testing him and was pissed that he failed the test. Hate to break it to Madi but there is no way Peter will pass any of her tests. They are so incompatible. 

I agree, it was unwise of Madison to tell the other women about her conversations with Peter on the subject of sex. With this show, you do have to wonder how much the producers encouraged Madison to bring it up with them.

I think Madison and Peter were really kicking the can down the road with regard to the sex conversation that neither really wanted to have. She was reluctant to tell him she was saving herself for marriage, when she could have also mentioned that before Fantasy Suites. Still, Peter knew she was saying she didn't want him sleeping with the others, but he really wanted to have all the sex, so IMO, he was holding onto the hope that Madison wouldn't ever ask him about it after the fact. Or, Peter figured Madison would be unhappy, but hoped it was the sort of displeasure that could be resolved with some Bachelor speak and an "I love you" or two. In his mind, tears and angst are all part of the process and the journey of finding The One.

*

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Dejana

[nlkm9]

On 2/28/2020 at 8:38 AM, halkatla said:

I adore Madison, she´s Emily Maynard level beautiful, loves the Lord etc etc but I think she should see a speech therapist. I can barely understand what she´s saying and if you count all the likes that come out of her mouth it´s about 50/50 if you compare "like" and all the other words. It´s such a flaw in almost all the girls who go on this show now. To be completely honest with myself, I just didn´t like Madi in this episode, she didn´t explain herself to Peter in the long segment in the beginning of the show, she kept mumbling incoherently as he kept asking her "what are you trying to say? what are you trying to tell me?" and it was just so stupid. Then when she walked away from him during their date after finally telling him the stuff that should have been brought up way before, I got the sense there was some fakeness going on with her. Hopefully it is all just a setup so that she can become the Bachelorette (for once I´m fine with that), because her and Peter are completely incompatible and I don´t want Peter to choose someone who obviously isn´t as into him as he is into her. It´s kind of awkward to watch him being played by so many of the women, especially Victoria. Madison is obviously a good person so I don´t want to group her in with Victoria, but she has been playing Peter (but maybe it´s impossible to date him without playing him, he´s so simple).

This type of stuff rarely happens on the show, it´s nice to have some real drama but if Madison is to become the bachelorette she needs to learn how to talk properly. I´m worried that she can´t lol.

At this point I totally ship Peter and Hannah Ann, they look good together and she´s very cute just like he is. And he wouldn´t have to work so hard to be with her. There´s not some insane pressure to become a pastor/leader of the family straight away.

he would have to do no work at all, she gave him carte blanche to do whatever he wants. I liked her until that moment. ugh.

8 hours ago, Dejana said:

I agree, it was unwise of Madison to tell the other women about her conversations with Peter on the subject of sex. With this show, you do have to wonder how much the producers encouraged Madison to bring it up with them.

I think Madison and Peter were really kicking the can down the road with regard to the sex conversation that neither really wanted to have. She was reluctant to tell him she was saving herself for marriage, when she could have also mentioned that before Fantasy Suites. Still, Peter knew she was saying she didn't want him sleeping with the others, but he really wanted to have all the sex, so IMO, he was holding onto the hope that Madison wouldn't ever ask him about it after the fact. Or, Peter figured Madison would be unhappy, but hoped it was the sort of displeasure that could be resolved with some Bachelor speak and an "I love you" or two. In his mind, tears and angst are all part of the process and the journey of finding The One.

*

 

is there a transcript? I hate podcasts!!

[Wandering Snark]

22 hours ago, LilDumplin said:

Hah, another one of these horrible photoshop jobs to cover their asses! You can tell because the contrast/saturation is way off. Who the hell did they hire to do this shoddy work? And couldn't they have also umm smoothed out his shorts?

But yeah this picture sums up the exact reason that she was kept around after not having a hometown or meeting anyone. No matter, as long as you're good with the fantasy suite still because we are so going to bone.

[EllenB]

On 2/29/2020 at 5:52 AM, LilDumplin said:

 

Gonna have to call him Peter Poke now.

[PrePreBabylonia]

On 2/25/2020 at 12:04 AM, Rainsong said:

Richard Gere gave Debra Winger his officer’s cap. Pilot Pete doesn’t have his cap handy but still lacks the presence of mind to give the freezing Madison his suit jacket. Chivalry is dead – killed by narcissism (among other culprits).

Pilot Pete can be rightfully blamed for many silly or thoughtless decisions, but the frozen dates have nothing to do with him. Production won't let Peter or any bachelor lend his jacket - they say their differing body proportions will make it look silly on TV. They do keep pashimas nearby for the women to wear though, if they are too cold.

https://ew.com/tv/2020/02/26/why-the-bachelor-never-offers-his-jacket/

[the-grey-lady]

That convo between Madi and Peter was amazeballs.

Madison: I don't judge anyone who has sex before marriage, but I've decided not to. It'd be really weird for me if you slept with someone else a few days before you asked me to become your wife.

Peter: THAT'S SO UNREASONABLE. I could totally see you as my wife! Also, these other women, too.