S01.E04: Couples Retreat

[Jane Tuesday]

Quote

One couple's rough nights leads to an explosive conversation. Others learn they aren't alone in Mexico. What will happen when old flames reunite?

 

[aradia22]

Kelly and Kenny are starting to get cute. I have to assume they were not in the first few episodes much because they had very boring conversations in the pods.

I have not been paying that much attention but where are the cameras? How aware are the couples of the camera guys? The quality of the footage is too good for it to just be hidden cameras. There are times when the way they focus in on the shot, the camera is at least across the room giving them some privacy. But sometimes there are tight shots that imply the camera guys are really close. 

Barnett and Amber feel like they have more of a sexual attraction. Giannina and Damian feel like they have a more romantic relationship than that but it's still infatuation and not love. 

How is Lauren waking up with a bonnet but fake eyelashes?

I did not expect this show to have mature conversations about interracial relationships but here we are. Lauren and Cameron talk to each other like adults and I love it.

Carlton is a mess. I finally paid attention to his job. He does some kind of social media thing. I don't trust him at all. This was a pre-planned stunt. He was shady from the start. If Diamond wasn't in on this idiotic storyline, that is MESSED UP. 

I feel like they don't need the Lachey's at all but I'm not mad about this tiny bit of involvement. I don't watch the Bachelor but this feels like later season Chris Harrison level involvement minus the rose ceremony. Less than 10 minutes per episode. Maybe less than 5 just to provide some context. 

The contestants throwing shade now that they can see each other in person is the most hilarious thing.

I feel like there's some hot goss that I'm missing. Did Amber tell Barnett that Jessica looks old? I feel like there was a reason he backed off from her. (Though to be fair, they had some toxic energy that to me was enough for them to both realize they were wrong for each other.) And he doesn't seem to be attracted to her now. We didn't get any talking heads of him being conflicted about choosing Amber and none of his body language was flirty.

[meatball77]

When Carlton went off on Diamond my thought was, ooh girl did you luck out with him lying to you and ending it so fast.  She told him she wasn't ok with it and he immediately went low, attacking her looks and just being nasty when she was trying to be kind.

Even if she wasn't ok just with him being bisexual, that's ok.  You can be picky with everything when it comes to the person you are going to marry. 

They're actually eating the food!

Are the Lachey's the producers?  I don't understand why there is a host at all, it's not even like we're getting voice overs.  The contestants could be reading a card with whatever the hosts are saying.  It's such a total waste of them even being there, but if they're the producers it's not like they're being paid extra to be there.

[2727]

9 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Lauren and Cameron talk to each other like adults and I love it.

She cracked me up reflecting on the possible dangers of kissing thin lips.

I love that neither of them have dated outside their races before and how calmly and intelligently they're exploring what that means. Really pulling for them.

[Kromm]

I will say the way it washed out, most of them are fairly well matched in terms of HOW attractive they are compared to each other, even though we do see Jessica, the 34 year old, question her level of attraction to Mark the 24 year old.  Frankly, they're an obvious candidates for absolute failure.  Not just because of the age thing, but that root of him being her second choice is never going to go away.  Ever.

I think we're going to eventually get hit over the head, hard, with the probable problems that may develop with their relationship, but at this stage Lauren and Cameron are adorable and totally believable.  We didn't see enough of their early conversations to totally understand how they connected at first, but I have some theories. Won't elaborate at this point though. They both seem so genuinely nice I can't help but pull for them.

Giannina and Damian to me seem like a surprisingly solid couple.  Again, as I said, they're both in attractive territory, but I think it actually helps that they're about the same level.  I loved how surprised (and come on... let's say it... pleased) he was by how bold she was sexually.  To me that's part of why I see them as solid.  He made the right gesture of trying to be a gentleman, and she had the guts to say "screw that". They both acted exactly as I think the other secretly wished they would.  It's kind of special that they could understand each other that well.

This is versus Barnett and Amber, which is a relationship that seems designed to be totally doomed.  They'll screw like bunnies then either get bored with each other or invent reasons to break up.

I barely remember who Kelly and Kenny are.  Either they're doomed because they'll bore each other to death, or they'll succeed because they're the same level of boring as each other.  I wish them well, but they ain't great viewing. 

Carlton and Diamond... happened.  I felt for him at various points, and was surprised mid-show it didn't blow up more... then it did later.  Frankly, to be honest, something felt off from the start about both of them... and I'm not referring to who he's had sex with before.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Kromm

[JTMacc99]

1 hour ago, Kromm said:

I wish them well, but they ain't great viewing.

Heh. Yeah, that sums up that couple pretty well for me. 

[Irritable]

I agree that the best thing to ever happen to Diamond was finding out who Carlton really is this early.  He’s immature as hell, takes his insecurities out on her, contradicts himself within the same sentence, throws things,  acts like a whole ass when he’s not getting exactly what he wants.  He’s a good catch for no one, man or woman. 
 

I smile so big and stupid every time Lauren and Cameron are on.  I’m rooting so hard for them that I feel like I’ve got something personal on the line. He’s a bit too intense for me overall - I need a lot of levity with short bursts of emotional intensity - but he talks so pretty, and is so head over heels for his beautiful woman that I can’t blame him for staying so deep and serious. When he told her that first morning together that it was like waking from a dream into another dream, I swooned. 

[djlynch]

Carlton needs therapy more than he needs a wife or reality TV. He was so ready to be proven right about the content of his secret being the dealbreaker that he never bothered to listen enough to figure out that it was the keeping a secret that was Diamond's problem. As much as I hate the stereotype that men who claim to be bi are secretly gay and refusing to come all of the way out of the closet, I wonder whether he's really that into women.

[Neurochick]

On 2/13/2020 at 9:31 PM, aradia22 said:

Carlton is a mess. I finally paid attention to his job. He does some kind of social media thing. I don't trust him at all. This was a pre-planned stunt. He was shady from the start. If Diamond wasn't in on this idiotic storyline, that is MESSED UP. 

Basically that's what Diamond told him.  She wasn't pissed off at him because of WHAT he said, she was upset because he NEGLECTED to tell her. 

Still, Carlton was right about Diamond's bad wig, it was bugging me too.  And it was interesting that when Carlton was mad at Diamond, he called her "stereotypical" he should have called her a Tiffany Haddish wannabe.

And I disliked Carlton from the first time he spoke, nothing to do with his sexuality.  Many people are fluid today, whatever.

[Angeleyes]

Diamond and Carlton speak to People Magazine

I read that Carlton was previously on Real Housewives of Atlanta as an assistant to Cynthia Bailey and that he got into a shouting match with Kenya Moore. 

[Lacy4u]

Thanks for the article. I'd already found out Carlton was on RHOA previously as Cynthia's bestie and/or assistant that got into a verbal argument with Kenya. When I first saw him on Love is Blind, I immediately thought he seemed like he was a homosexual man (his walk, talk, the way he dressed, the comments he made about females, etc). So it wasn't surprising to me when he first 'came' out to the cameras prior to letting Diamond know what was up with his past. I also feel he should've shared this very important lifestyle choice of his to Diamond prior to asking her to be his wife. If he'd shared this while they were still 'pod dating' and afterwards she accepted his proposal then he'd have known that she really accepts him for himself. It's crazy how mad he got with her during their interactions in Mexico before and after he told her. He was hella disrepectful and condescending to Diamond for what seemed like no reason. She was blindsighted in the resort room they shared and then at the pool side. I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up with PTSD after that experience.

I wonder why did Netflix wait a whole year and a half to air these episodes???

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 2/14/2020 at 7:08 AM, 2727 said:

She cracked me up reflecting on the possible dangers of kissing thin lips.

I love that neither of them have dated outside their races before and how calmly and intelligently they're exploring what that means. Really pulling for them.

Cameron has dated outside of his race.

[Neurochick]

6 hours ago, Lacy4u said:

So it wasn't surprising to me when he first 'came' out to the cameras prior to letting Diamond know what was up with his past. I also feel he should've shared this very important lifestyle choice of his to Diamond prior to asking her to be his wife.

First, some might not say that bisexuality is a "lifestyle choice" but whatever.  

  I am of two minds here.  If Carlton had been with say hundreds of women, should he have revealed that to Diamond? 

[PityFree]

I realized two things today: 1) I can’t tell the difference between a good wig and a bad wig, and 2) I am alone in thinking that Damien is quite homely.

[aradia22]

Quote

 2) I am alone in thinking that Damien is quite homely.

I don't think he's a hideous monster or anything but he would be average-looking if he wasn't tall and didn't have such a muscular gym body. None of the guys are that facially handsome. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

14 hours ago, PityFree said:

I realized two things today: 1) I can’t tell the difference between a good wig and a bad wig, and 2) I am alone in thinking that Damien is quite homely.

You are not alone, my friends agree with you.  But I like him.    I don't mind him at all.

[moviechicka]

22 hours ago, PityFree said:

I realized two things today: 1) I can’t tell the difference between a good wig and a bad wig, and 2) I am alone in thinking that Damien is quite homely.

He looks like what would happen if a Property Brother was exposed to toxic waste.

[Blissfool]

On 2/24/2020 at 7:46 PM, PityFree said:

I realized two things today: 1) I can’t tell the difference between a good wig and a bad wig, and 2) I am alone in thinking that Damien is quite homely.

You're right. Daniel's face is not attractive. Neither is Barnett's. I do like Cameron's face, even though I can see how others wouldn't. Kenny, though! I think Kenny is so good-looking and I think Kelly is a nice girl, but he could do so much better lookswise. 

On the wig....you're on your own. I have absolutely no experience with wigs and don't know anyone who wears one, but I could tell that wig was hideous even on my small 32-in bedroom tv. (Must be my Rupauls Drag Race experience.) I hated Carlton but I loved that he called her out on it because it had been bugging me all along. 

[DearEvette]

Holeee sheeeit.  Diamond and Carleton. Yikes.

I have to say, I am on Team Diamond.  Carleton was complete liar.  He has been telling us, the audience, from day one that he is afraid of being rejected because he's been rejected before.  But then he tells Diamond that 1) no girls have ever had a problem with him before and 2) no one had ever had a problem with him before.  So which is it?  I feel like he deflected so much onto her.  And if no one really had a problem then he wouldn't have been so afraid to tell her. 

Since it was SUCH a big deal to him, it is so disingenuous to feel like it wasn't a big enough deal to disclose before asking her to marry him.  He obsessed over it for a week.  And he couldn't even give her a night to process it.  And then the cherry on the top of the cake is his go to immediate reaction is to call her a bitch and insult her appearance.  What an asshole.  Also, that sets off so many red flags if your go-to in an argument is to attack and insult.  I did like that she was quoting Beyonce lyrics LOL. Also I loved her pajama short-set.

Lauren and Cameron seem like they are another level.  They seem like they are further along in their relationship even thought they probably only got engaged like a day before anyone else. I am now rooting for them officially. That means they are gonna implode, cuz  that is how my ships roll.  Or rather, sink.

I am finally liking Kenny and Kelly.  She is a fitness person, I gather.  She does look very fit and toned.  Not gym- hard-body but healthy fit.  I really liked her red shorts outfit she wore on the beach.

Poor Mark.

This is the first time I thought Jessica looked older than 34.  Lauren is 32 and Kelly is 33 and they look much younger than her.

Still can't bring myself to like Amber or Barnett. 

On 2/16/2020 at 5:14 PM, Kromm said:

This is versus Barnett and Amber, which is a relationship that seems designed to be totally doomed.  They'll screw like bunnies then either get bored with each other or invent reasons to break up.

Yup.  This is my feeling about them in a nutshell.

Edited February 27, 2020 by DearEvette

[Empress1]

On 2/22/2020 at 1:53 PM, Neurochick said:

Still, Carlton was right about Diamond's bad wig, it was bugging me too. 

He was. It has been bugging me from the first second she came on screen. Its positioning makes it clear that it's a wig. And you can see around her hairline that it's not her hair. I think she styles her baby hairs around it because she thinks it makes the wig look more natural, but it has the opposite affect.

On 2/19/2020 at 4:56 PM, Irritable said:

I smile so big and stupid every time Lauren and Cameron are on.  I’m rooting so hard for them that I feel like I’ve got something personal on the line. He’s a bit too intense for me overall - I need a lot of levity with short bursts of emotional intensity - but he talks so pretty, and is so head over heels for his beautiful woman that I can’t blame him for staying so deep and serious. When he told her that first morning together that it was like waking from a dream into another dream, I swooned. 

This couple is melting my cynicism, I swear. Also, as another Black woman said in a previous episode thread, I'm here for a Black woman getting a nice love story - we don't see enough of that. I also find it refreshing that they're talking so candidly about interracial relationships and what it means to raise biracial kids that the world will receive as Black.

Jessica talking about how her bond with Barnett is unmatchable ... as she's engaged to someone else. Ouch. 

[Emkat]

It was so windy at the beach party.  Looked miserable. 

[ishouldbeworking]

That question from Damian about whether the other guys had sex the first night was definitely a setup by the producers. And, oh yeah, just coincidentally it's what the girls were also talking about. This fabricated uncomfortable situation was totally created to put Mark and Jessica on the hot seat in order to watch them squirm.

[Kiss my mutt]

 Both Diamond and Taylor from MAFS need a wig intervention, but Carelton hit below the belt, yelling something so ugly to her. I don’t think he really wants to be with a woman and settle down and is conflicted about this so he overreacts in extreme hostility to his self fulfilling prophecy. And he’s probably just an ass at the core. I feel bad for diamond having to be subjected to that but I’m glad it was short lived. Did they consummate their marriage? Ugh. 

[Ilovepie]

26 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Did they consummate their marriage? Ugh. 

They are not married at this point, but I get your meaning. I don’t think they even stayed in the same room, let alone consummate their relationship.....

Good God, that was some ugly fighting. I hope someone went into the bushes and retrieved that ring!

At this point, The only couples I think might make it to the altar are Cameron and Lauren, and Kenny and Kelly. GG and Damien seem ok now, but I sense she is a real drama queen. No way in hell do Barnett and Amber or Jessica and Mark get married. No way. And if Amber and Barnett can implode quickly the happier I would be. I cringe every time she opens her mouth. She is crass and cocky and over the top. I can’t stand her.

And good for the Lacheys for getting a nice Mexico vacation for maybe 2 hours of work total over the course of this season......

[Kiss my mutt]

@Ilovepie thank you! I think Gianna is a bit whack-a-doo and Damien might get tired of that once he gets used to having regular sex.  She is funny, but I think maybe a handful too. 
I foresee ugly fights in the future for Mark and Jessica. He kinda went close to the edge with her initial reaction and tried to lock her down right away. He looks to be seething to me and biding his time. 
Ive never seen so many bro hugs and massages going in between dudes. Maybe Rory is on the take. 

[Zuleikha]

I feel in opposite land of most of the people here. I could not believe how cruel and biphobic Diamond was. From reading interviews, I gather that she had no understanding of LGB+ issues. But I guess it's just hard for me to understand how someone in 2020 can live in a major metro city and have so little understanding of what LGB stereotypes are hurtful to throw at a person or not. (Especially a professional dancer!)

Anyway, I don't think either of them covered themselves in glory at the poolside chat. However, since she threw a drink on him, I don't think she was particularly more wronged than he was (and his call out of her wig was something she really needed to know).

I do agree with Diamond that it would have been optimal for Carlton to have told her prior to the engagement, though. But Carlton did tell her at what must have been one of their first extended times together in person. 

I thought Jessica and Mark weren't in a great place but may have a chance until I saw Jessica's reaction to Barnett. Jessica is not over him. Barnett's kind of a dork, so there's something really funny about him being the big heartbreaker. I loved Lauren's comment to him. He and Amber come across as solid to me. They seem to have very similar approaches to life. They're both just a lot.

I didn't think it was odd the Kenny and Kelly were cuddling and taking things slow until the group conversation and now I'm like... hmm... maybe Kelly's not actually that into him (or maybe they're not actually that into each other).

[tinkerbell]

So, the host says, weddings are in 4 weeks, and they have to decide to get married, OR, walk away and never see each other again. Really?  

Several of these women have annoying voices and/or laughs.

[Irlandesa]

On 2/23/2020 at 5:28 PM, Neurochick said:

I am of two minds here.  If Carlton had been with say hundreds of women, should he have revealed that to Diamond? 

That's a good question.  I also don't know if I'd categorize bisexual in the same category as sleeping with hundreds of people.  One is something someone did in the past.  The other is an identity pretty intrinsic to who he is.  And since it's something he has been rejected over (depending on whether we listen to the talking heads or his argument with Diamond), I would think it's something he'd want to put out there before he proposed to someone to narrow down his candidate pool.  And if at any point in their pod conversations they talked about past relationships, I do think talking about one gender he dated and not the other would be a red flag to me.

I did have to laugh at Diamond's "you waited to tell me until there were only four weeks to the wedding" argument. That'd be a good point if they hadn't met less than a week ago.

It was such a reality show fight that we'll probably get more of in the second season because that's just what happens to reality shows.  First seasons can have a more "real" reality portrayed and subsequent seasons get manipulated more towards the drama.

It's painful how unattracted to Mark Jessica is.  It gives me vibes that the only reason she agreed to be with Mark is because she wanted to stay on the show. 

I both really ship Cameron and Lauren and think "whoa dude." I couldn't handle someone that into me. 

On 2/16/2020 at 4:14 PM, Kromm said:

Giannina and Damian to me seem like a surprisingly solid couple.  Again, as I said, they're both in attractive territory, but I think it actually helps that they're about the same level.  I loved how surprised (and come on... let's say it... pleased) he was by how bold she was sexually. 

Giannina strikes me as young but one thing I do like about them is their discussions around sex.  I like that he made sure she knew he wouldn't pressure her and I like how she was open about what she wanted.

[DearEvette]

On 2/23/2020 at 6:28 PM, Neurochick said:

I am of two minds here.  If Carlton had been with say hundreds of women, should he have revealed that to Diamond? 

I think that depends on where you fall on what their argument is really about.

If you think it was just about sex... then possibly not.  I get the impression that that is something relatively easy for persons of their age and savvy to talk about.  Also the lots of sex with women is different than sexuality.  It is a behavior, not an identity.

If you think the argument was about his sexuality then one might fall on the side of it is his choice to determine when he is most comfortable revealing that to someone.  Conversely one might say that is a selfish stance since if you are planning to marry someone, then it isn't just about your feelings anymore, you also have to consider theirs. 

If you think the argument was about honesty and that one should disclose really important details about themselves before asking someone to marry them, then yes.

Take the sex/sexuality aspect out of it altogether.  What if Carlton's big secret was that he had children from a previous relationship?  What if it was about him having serious chronic medical condition?

Does his sexual fluidity rank lower on an 'important thing to tell your partner before you ask them to marry you' scale than children or a medical condition? 

Personally I fall on the side that this is an argument ultimately about honesty.  Carleton himself kept referring to it as his 'big secret.'  That terminology right there tells me he knew he was deliberately keeping something away from Diamond and he knew was important.  And then he did his level best to make her feel terrible about feeling that it was important.

Edited March 28, 2020 by DearEvette

[RealReality]

On 2/21/2020 at 7:25 AM, djlynch said:

Carlton needs therapy more than he needs a wife or reality TV. He was so ready to be proven right about the content of his secret being the dealbreaker that he never bothered to listen enough to figure out that it was the keeping a secret that was Diamond's problem. As much as I hate the stereotype that men who claim to be bi are secretly gay and refusing to come all of the way out of the closet, I wonder whether he's really that into women.

I agree.  I think there are certain gender fluid people, bisexual people, pansexual people and other things.  But his level of rage was abnormal.  Like someone who is super mad at the world because not only do they have to hide their true sexuality, but then they have to try to convince a potential, socially acceptable partner that they are into them and they don't want to be questioned because they are they are being deceitful.  

And his whole "I didn't have to tell you anything!" screams of him being on the down low.  

A churchgoing family with a pastor father might accept bisexuality before they would accept homosexuality.  

On 2/24/2020 at 5:46 PM, PityFree said:

I realized two things today: 1) I can’t tell the difference between a good wig and a bad wig, and 2) I am alone in thinking that Damien is quite homely.

Her wig was bad.  Really bad.  I'm not sure what the fix was for that hairline, but I think that the problem is with where her hair is parted down the middle.  

If you're going for that style I think the wig has to be near perfect at the part because it's a focal point of the wig.  Maybe concealer on the lace would have helped.  If she wanted to try to blend it with her natural hair she needed to flatten her natural hair at the crown and part it exactly where the wig was parted.  

Damien has a young Ron pearlman thing.  It's meh. 

On 3/7/2020 at 3:23 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

 Both Diamond and Taylor from MAFS need a wig intervention, but Carelton hit below the belt, yelling something so ugly to her. I don’t think he really wants to be with a woman and settle down and is conflicted about this so he overreacts in extreme hostility to his self fulfilling prophecy. And he’s probably just an ass at the core. I feel bad for diamond having to be subjected to that but I’m glad it was short lived. Did they consummate their marriage? Ugh. 

Yes.  This.  It was superficial and mean and a prime example of the cruelty black men love to show black women over their attempts to look like the eurocentric standard of beauty black men have, by and large bought into. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by RealReality

[Canadian Girl]

On 2/27/2020 at 6:31 PM, DearEvette said:

This is the first time I thought Jessica looked older than 34.  Lauren is 32 and Kelly is 33 and they look much younger than her.

Yes! I would believe Jessica was 44! Her long hair and small frame give the illusion of youth but her face looks ancient. 

[RoxiP]

On 2/25/2020 at 8:17 PM, Blissfool said:

 

On the wig....you're on your own. I have absolutely no experience with wigs and don't know anyone who wears one, but I could tell that wig was hideous even on my small 32-in bedroom tv. (Must be my Rupauls Drag Race experience.) I hated Carlton but I loved that he called her out on it because it had been bugging me all along. 

Lol - same!  I never even knew there was something called a lace front wig until Drag Race.