S01.E10: Kiss and Cry

[paulvdb]

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Kat and Justin's romance and Olympic dreams teeter on an edge while the relationships around them skid toward their own crossroads.

 

[NoChtngWhenEtng]

Finished! This show was fun, but it's definitely not winning any awards anytime soon. Some of the acting was ... not great. 

Thoughts:
* Where did the Little F'er cat go? He wasn't seen again :< I don't even like cats!

* I wanted to know what they named Mandy's baby, but we never found out

* The neat little bow for Marcus' storyline was weird. And no fall out about Brent's mom being a weirdo scammer?

* Do we just assume Jenn keeps dating pervo doctor? 

I really enjoyed the chemistry between Kat and Justin, and would probably watch a second season.

[Guest]

The show held my interest and I’d definitely watch a second season but I’m not sure that I liked it. Overall it just felt frenetic. They could have cut out half the storylines and made a much better show. I really wonder where there is to go if there is a second season.

I know they laid they groundwork for Serena being abused early on but the actual reveal felt like it came out of left field. They should have made Serena a bigger character for that to have more impact. It ended up feeling like a last minute change. 

I really like Jenn but the writing for her was all over the place. Her relationship with the doctor should have happened earlier to explain why she was so quick to jump to his defense. 

In the beginning I was adamantly opposed to Kat and Justin but they ended up winning me over. 

[Mabinogia]

Totally agree Dani. 

I liked the supporting characters, Jen, Marcus, Serena, Dasha was my favorite, but there was a major story for each of them and not that many episodes to tell them, and the poor little rich boy story, and the bipolar being raised by a bipolar mom story, and the afraid of the ice after a big injury, and the baby story, etc. 

It feels like they threw everything in for fear they wouldn't get a second season, but in doing so they short changed pretty much all of the stories, all of which are stories worthy of telling and giving some time to. 

I will say it was a great cast and I wouldn't mind a second season, though since they burned through so many stories IDK what there is left to tell. 

[pasdetrois]

Binged with a young skater in my family. The first half of the series was pretty good, but then the kitchen sink came crashing in. Agree with the comment that the pace became frenetic and sloppily executed. Way too much going on and the actors just dashed in and out of scenes. Too bad.

[showme]

I can't root for Kat, she is selfish, abrasive and mean. So strange characters on the show would give her opportunities after opportunities, she doesn't deserve it!

As for the actress, she looks almost as old as January Jones, and she is supposed to be her daughter? miscast for sure.

[GoldaVining]

On 1/6/2020 at 6:34 AM, NoChtngWhenEtng said:

Finished! This show was fun, but it's definitely not winning any awards anytime soon. Some of the acting was ... not great. 

 

Yes, I agree. I figured it was because they had to find skaters who could act so I cut them some slack only to find out the skating is all done by stunt doubles, so there goes that theory....

Sorry, edited to add that not ALL the skating is done by stunt doubles. Obviously, Johnny Weir (sp?) is doing his own skating, and JVN too, but almost all, surprisingly, almost all of it. The editing (and costumes/make up for the doubles) is amazing, flawless, I'd say. Maybe they will win some awards for that 🙂

Edited January 10, 2020 by GoldaVining
clarity

[EarlGreyTea]

On 1/7/2020 at 4:44 AM, Dani said:

I really like Jenn but the writing for her was all over the place. Her relationship with the doctor should have happened earlier to explain why she was so quick to jump to his defense.

See, out of the many outlandish things on the show, I could buy this one completely without having to see too much of the relationship between Jenn and the doctor. The real relationship here is between Jenn and Kat, and all of that resentment and fighting over the last 10 episodes- THAT'S the real groundwork that led to Jenn siding with the doctor. This was just one time too many that Kat and her family got one over on Jenn. Jenn can only take so many hits in one year. So as disappointing as it was, I DID find it realistic. Frankly, I thought Jenn forgave Kat a little too quickly in the last episode, and the friendship was much too one-sided for my taste.

I very much enjoyed this show, but I was kind of tired of the fact that all the POC characters and their dreams and desires were sidelined for the main characters'. Marcus I could take or leave, but Jenn and Alana were really likable and deserved more airtime than they got.

On 1/9/2020 at 10:18 AM, showme said:

As for the actress, she looks almost as old as January Jones, and she is supposed to be her daughter? miscast for sure.

This is one case where I can buy that they look too close in age. Kaya is playing 21 or so, and if January was, say, 18 when she had her, I can buy it. What I can't buy is the Kaya and Willow as sisters. I thought the show covered up their lack of resemblance due to different fathers rather cleverly, but it was still jarring.

Overall I liked the show and would watch a season two, but yes, it was very rushed and too many storylines happened at once to give them all justice. Overall, I was very impressed by the chemistry between the two leads. I initially wrote Justin off as too one-note in the first few episodes, but they gave him some real depth and his love for Kat seemed real.

[Guest]

On 1/10/2020 at 5:54 PM, EarlGreyTea said:

See, out of the many outlandish things on the show, I could buy this one completely without having to see too much of the relationship between Jenn and the doctor. The real relationship here is between Jenn and Kat, and all of that resentment and fighting over the last 10 episodes- THAT'S the real groundwork that led to Jenn siding with the doctor. This was just one time too many that Kat and her family got one over on Jenn. Jenn can only take so many hits in one year. So as disappointing as it was, I DID find it realistic. Frankly, I thought Jenn forgave Kat a little too quickly in the last episode, and the friendship was much too one-sided for my taste.

I didn’t find it unrealistic just poorly developed. They could have done so much more. My biggest issue actually is that they had her immediately forgive Kat and swept everything under the rug. Spending more time on Jenn and the doctor or showing that Jenn was tentative about being friends again would have made the last scene work better. It also would have made the damage to their friendship seem more significant. As it is I would not be surprised if the whole issue is resolved by Jenn finding out Kat was right and then they go back to being bff’s again. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Guest

[EarlGreyTea]

2 minutes ago, Dani said:

I didn’t find it unrealistic just poorly developed. They could have done so much more. My biggest issue actually is that they had her immediately forgive Kat and swept everything under the rug. Spending more time on Jenn and the doctor or showing the Jenn was tentative about being friends again would have made the last scene work better. It also would have made the damage to their friendship seem more significant. As it is I would not be surprised if the whole issue is resolved by Jenn finding out Kat was right and then they go back to being bff’s again. 

Agreed. Jenn was WAY too forgiving. I think I'd have bought the relationship more if they were the ones who were sisters. Jenn went out of her way WAY too many times for someone who barely reciprocated. I'm trying to think one of thing Kat did for Jenn that equaled anything Jenn did for Kat, but I can't. I could buy it better if Jenn was Kat's older sister. Then her generosity would make more sense. Not that friends can't be like sisters, but there was too much self-sacrifice going on.

Also, Jenn seemed to get over not being able to skate way too quickly. That arc was over and done with in about 5 seconds. That was annoying too. I'd be interested in Dasha helping her become a coach. That's organic and interesting and would give them both something to do.

[ShellsandCheese]

The best characters were in my opinion, Dasha and Jenn. It's never a good sign when the most memorable thing about a show are supporting characters who didn't get nearly as much screen time as your main characters. Here are a few things I think could have improved the show:

1. Not using bipolar as an excuse for the fact that both Kat and Carol were just very unlikeable. Both were assholes to put bluntly. 

2. If you are going to have a show about skaters who have hopes of going to the Olympics. The skating needs to be better. I know they had stand-ins but I found most of what should have been epic moments on ice just meh because the whole time, I'm just like this is nowhere near Olympic level skating. It wasn't even regional level skating. 

3. Don't add in social issues to appear woke and then just drop them. LOL. 

4. I'm not sure what the actual age gap is between Kaya S. and January J. but Kaya looks older than January so it was hard for me to buy them as mother-daughter. 

5. I found the whole subplot with the little sister and the teasing of her coach being inappropriate really distasteful. To add insult to injury I found the subplot of little sister with the doctor silly and it came out of left field. 

6. Neither Kat or Willow had the mental fortitude to be skating champions. LOL. 

[showme]

7 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

1. Not using bipolar as an excuse for the fact that both Kat and Carol were just very unlikeable. Both were assholes to put bluntly.

4. I'm not sure what the actual age gap is between Kaya S. and January J. but Kaya looks older than January so it was hard for me to buy them as mother-daughter. 

 

1. Carol is not perfect, but she is real. Kat is simply nasty, very unlikable, I wonder what the hot guy saw in her. Jenn is way better than Kat as a love interest.

2. Kaya S. looks way too old to be January's daughter. Sister, I might buy it, daughter? no way! Miscast for sure.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, showme said:

Carol is not perfect, but she is real. Kat is simply nasty, very unlikable, I wonder what the hot guy saw in her. Jenn is way better than Kat as a love interest.

Plenty of people are drawn to those like her for a lot of reasons. Big drama brings big emotions which can be very appealing. 

[nomodrama]

January Jones is 42, and Kaya Scodelario is 27! Wow.....January Jones looks pretty amazing.

I liked this show. The love interest thing surprised me, by episode 2 I was all in on Marcus and thought he was end game for Kat. And then Justin turned a corner and turned out to be a pretty good guy and they actually made a really great couple. Marcus was pretty dull in the end. 

I really loved Jenn.....except for the hip thing. I hate that trope of an athlete being told that they are permanently going to damage themselves if they keep doing something and they still do it. Her speech to her dad at the Dr's office really got me when she told him she had not gone to school and had no career though. 

Dasha was my other favorite, I loved everything about her. I can't remember what the cat's actual name was but when she told Kat it meant "Little Fucker" it was the biggest LOL moment of the show for me. I fully intend to name a future pet that. Hopefully if there is a 2nd season they give her a happy ending with her long lost love. 

The Dr being the guy Kat's sister was sleeping with was a big shocker for me. I actually gasped when they revealed it. 

[Mabinogia]

22 hours ago, EarlGreyTea said:

I'd be interested in Dasha helping her become a coach. That's organic and interesting and would give them both something to do.

I would be way more interested in that than in watching Kat and Justin's inevitable ride to the Olympics. Dasha and Jenn were my faves too. So happy to see they were popular with many. I think they are both too good for Kat and Kat should be thanking her lucky stars that either of them, or Marcus (who put up with her BS way too long for someone who didn't know she was bipolar), or Mandy (I don't get why she liked Kat. I know she said she saw herself in Kat but I sure didn't see it). 

Actually, I was shocked to find out that at least Jenn and Marcus didn't know she was bipolar. Knowing would have made them remaining her friends make more sense. When I found out they didn't know, my first thought was "then why the fuck did you put up with the bitch? If you thought she was just being a horrible person rather than someone dealing with a horrible illness?" The only reason I can tolerate Kat is because I understand she is struggling with something difficult, that she will have to struggle with her whole life. So I give her more leeway. If she behaved the way she was without the struggle, I'd dump her ass ages ago. 

[absnow54]

I thought it was interesting that this show was promoted as Black Swan on ice, and ended up being Cutting Edge with more sex. Obviously there is story leftover for the journey to Nationals and International competition, but I agree with others that they really exhausted a lot of potential story in the first season. I found it pretty satisfying, so I’m fine if this is a one and done series. I did really like it though, even though it had a lot of short comings (the acting wasn’t that great, the skating was pretty lame, the writing was lots and lots of exposition...)

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Actually, I was shocked to find out that at least Jenn and Marcus didn't know she was bipolar. Knowing would have made them remaining her friends make more sense. When I found out they didn't know, my first thought was "then why the fuck did you put up with the bitch? If you thought she was just being a horrible person rather than someone dealing with a horrible illness?" The only reason I can tolerate Kat is because I understand she is struggling with something difficult, that she will have to struggle with her whole life. So I give her more leeway. If she behaved the way she was without the struggle, I'd dump her ass ages ago. 

I feel like for Jenn part of it was that she did know Carol was horrible so she had empathy for Kat due to that. I'm not sure if she knew Carol was bipolar though. It seems like she didn't know but aghain she knew she was a shitty mom. I'm also not sure if Marcus knew that Carol sucked/had bipolar because, to be honest, I mostly zoned out during his scenes lol.

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I feel like for Jenn part of it was that she did know Carol was horrible so she had empathy for Kat due to that. I'm not sure if she knew Carol was bipolar though.

That's a good point. And if she didn't know Carol was bipolar and just thought she was a horrible human being I could see her having a lot of smypathy for Kat. I do wish Jenn hadn't forgiven her so quickly. Though maybe the fact she was so quick to side with Skeevy Doc is a sign she didn't really forgive Kat. It certainly showed that Jenn's blind trust of Kat is destroyed. Had Jenn been seeing Skeevy Doc at the start of our story and he was the one Kat first accused, I think Jenn would have dumped him immediately, but she has finally realized she can't trust every "instinct" Kat has. 

I wish that Kat was wrong about Doc though. I need Jenn to find her happiness. I'm far more invested in her and Dasha's storylines than I am in Kats.

Actually, I'm more interested in Carol's story as well. It is far more interesting to watch someone trying to pull themselves out of a deep, deep hole that is of their own making than watching someone act like everything should be hers because she wants it really really badly. I just feel like Kat has gotten everything she wants while everyone around her is having their lives torn apart. 

I even like Justin more, mostly because I adore his mother/son relationship with Dasha. I think his scene's with her are when he is the most likable, though he does have great chemistry with the actress playing Kat, thank god, because that is what saves their love story for me. 

I wonder if, if they had been given a second season right away, they would not have had everyone forgive Kat right away. It would have been interesting to end this season with the letter. Then next season is Kat actually doing something to make amends for all her shitty behaviour. I just feel like she made everyone miserable, said "not my fault, I'm sick" and they all said "oh, okay, free pass!" Instead she should be working to repair the damage she's caused. Instead, everyone else's lives seem to be worse while she's getting everything she ever wanted. 

Next season I would love the show to switch focus. Dasha trades in Kat for Serena and Jenn. She could start a rehab/coaching business where she takes in "broken" skaters, bestows her special brand of wisdom on them and makes them better people. I would love Dasha to get her hands on poor little Serena. That girls life up to now has been utter crap!

[SoWindsor]

I watched this for Kaya. Loved her in Skins and her chemistry with her two love interests on that show. So I was really disappointed not to see that same chemistry with either Justin or Marcus. This show was a miss for me. That said I still love Kaya.

 

[backhometome]

I liked it. I would watch a second season.

Jenn was way too forgiving. I know Kat was manic through some of it but she was a crap friend to her most of the time. Though I am not sure when it was known to Kat that Jenn liked Justin like that. 

Kaya S- was so so with her acting most of the time but I thought she played the manic episode pretty well. 

I found the back and forth with Justin and Kat at the beginning annoying. Too much time was spent on them just agreeing to skate together. Whereas the last few eps. was throwing everything at once at the characters.

I was annoyed at first how Justin reacted to Kats BP episode. When it seemed like he was mad at her illness which wasnt her fault. But him being upset about whether or not what she felt for him was real or not was understandable. 

There was no build up to Serena and the Dr. like at all. It came out of no where. That could have been developed more. 

Loved Dasha. Loved her taking in all the "stray" kids and helping them.

Mandy and Carol was a nice relationship. 

Willow Shields playing a blonde sister to a brunette older sister again. Kinda felt like a redo of Prim/Katniss sometimes. The hunger games reference was especially amusing. 

 

[Linderhill]

I was mostly entertained despite the utterly despicable behavior of some of the characters.  I was surprised by how quickly Kat capitulated to pairing with Justin and how quickly she adjusted pairs skating.    I've had friends that are bipolar and it can be exhausting to deal with.  Always wondering when the next time a swing is going to come.  

I was disappointed in the lack of quality skating, especially Jonny Weir and his partner's sloppy long program.  I remember all the camouflage that went into the Cutting Edge that at least made it semi believable that they could be competitive skaters and there was very little of that here.  I couldn't help wondering who would wear pastel blue to skate to Danse Macabre?  That took me right out of it (besides the crappy skating).  Also, a very shallow part of me want someone to thin out and shape Willow/Serina's eyebrows.  

[scenicbyway]

Run Justin!  I watched the whole season in about 3 hours.  It was amazing the amount that I could fast forward through and still get the full story.

Theres no way that Kat could’ve skated that well either at sectional or regionals. Hadn’t they just been skating together a couple of months at that point?  How would she have the frame of mind compete with all of the chaos raging around her?  Too much drama!

[MJ Frog]

I feel like watching this show has given me PTSD. Seeing fucked up people do fucked up things, and then some more fucked up things after that, kept me on edge the ENTIRE TIME. I found myself incredibly grateful for the few moments respite with the few relatively "normal" characters on the show.

I was hoping for a show that provided insight into lives that revolve so completely around one thing. It would have been interesting to learn the rigors and challenges of the athletes, coaches, and others whose lives are devoted to this sport. Not enough soap opera in that for a TV drama, I guess.

Edited January 26, 2020 by MJ Frog
Clarity and stuff.

[iMonrey]

Quote

2. If you are going to have a show about skaters who have hopes of going to the Olympics. The skating needs to be better. I know they had stand-ins but I found most of what should have been epic moments on ice just meh because the whole time, I'm just like this is nowhere near Olympic level skating. It wasn't even regional level skating.

This is the biggest problem I had with the show, actually. In the end, Kat and Justin hadn't even practiced in over a week, and then went straight into a competition. Without even warming up. And came in first. WTF? No way. Everything about the skating was absurd. The hardest thing we ever saw anyone do was a triple toe loop. BFD. You don't go from singles to pairs and win your first competition after only a few months. 

The interpersonal drama was just OK. I was actually way more interested in Carol than in Kat or any of the other kids. Dasha's story was good too. But every time it came back to the skating it took me right out of the story, it was done so poorly and unrealistically. 

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4. I'm not sure what the actual age gap is between Kaya S. and January J. but Kaya looks older than January so it was hard for me to buy them as mother-daughter. 

It was stated early on that Kaya was 21, even if the actress is actually 27. She's a pretty rough looking 21 but given her disorder I'll give it a pass. Again, what was harder to buy was that she was such an impressive skater that an elite coach with a potential medalist was clamoring to sign her up. I never saw her do anything remotely impressive on the ice.

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Also, a very shallow part of me wants someone to thin out and shape Willow/Serina's eyebrows.

Yup. Eyebrows!!!

[slf]

I wish this series had been more about the skating (rigorous training that dominates the athletes life, for example) and the culture of that sport (the kiss and cry scenes were completely underwhelming). It's a soap opera punctuated by mediocre skating, which is disappointing. I'm a little offended that this is being compared to The Cutting Edge, which is vastly superior in every way.

[Mabinogia]

17 minutes ago, slf said:

I'm a little offended that this is being compared to The Cutting Edge, which is vastly superior in every way.

The Cutting Edge was a great movie. This might be more like Cutting Edge 3 (which apparently is a thing that exists lol) but it is NO Cutting Edge. I will still watch that movie every time I happen upon it playing. 

This is a soap opera that happens to take place in the skating world. Which is fine if that's what it wants to be, but it is not a show about skating or what it takes to be a skater, or what it takes to be a champion. 

The Cutting Edge worked, well, for many reasons, but one of them was that Kate and Doug worked their asses off to be the best. They got drunk that one time, but that was it. Kate was a spoiled rich girl but I never once thought she didn't take her skating seriously. Justin, who would be the Kate in this version, comes across more as someone for whom skating is so easy he can just fuck off whenever he wants and still be the best. 

Doug was coming from hockey which was totally different and really worked his ass off to be a pairs skater and also took it super seriously and was good, but he was good because he worked at it. Kat, our Doug replacement in this show, is also someone who doesn't really seem to work hard but is just naturally good. 

I want to see people who work hard and sacrifice for their dream, not two spoiled losers who are just getting by on their natural talent and a great deal of unearned praise. 

I did like Jenn's story, Serena's story, Dasha's story, hell, even Carol's story. I just didn't like Justin and Kat the wonder twins who get everything they want without all that much effort while everyone else's live's fall apart no matter how hard they try. 

[marieYOTZ]

That scene where Kat checked in with her very forgiving best-friend about the career ending injury was really moving. 
 

oh wait, didn’t happen. 
 

i want to like this show, but they could balance the relationships better.

[CeeBeeGee]

 

On 1/11/2020 at 7:03 PM, nomodrama said:

I really loved Jenn..... Her speech to her dad at the Dr's office really got me when she told him she had not gone to school and had no career though. 

Dasha was my other favorite, I loved everything about her. 

The Dr being the guy Kat's sister was sleeping with was a big shocker for me. I actually gasped when they revealed it. 

OMG the doctor!!!! I gasped as well. Did NOT see that coming at ALL. In fact last episode when she was sitting in the car, I'm thinking "what a nice doctor, showing her support." God, I feel sick. Poor Serena. I commented on the last episode how inappropriate it was that he'd asked out Jen--guess I was on to something.

Я тоже люблю Даша! She is awesome and dry and caring, and her story is so touching.

The college thing, though--Jen's basically in the same boat as someone who's retired from skating (voluntarily). A few of them have entered college. Heck, Sasha Cohen went to Columbia when she was nearly 30. She's not really in the same situation as, say, Tonya Harding, who really could only skate and couldn't afford college (even had she had the aptitude).

Yes and yes. Danse Macabre is wonderfully spooky, one of my favorite pieces--live it, Serena! You gotta sell that mood. And yes to the brows--Dasha, call Anastasia for an emergency waxing!

[healthnut]

Well that was fun while it lasted. Just started over the weekend and finished last night only to see it’s been cancelled. Boo. It had some flaws no doubt but overall I really enjoyed it. 

What I really liked:

Justin/Kat - surprised by this as he was such a jerk early on and they seemed to be setting up Kat/Marcus but dang it if I didn’t end up shipping Justin & Kat. I thought they could’ve built it up a little longer but with only ten episodes I understand the time constraint.

Carol - so unlikeable in theory but I loved the depth of her character and I thought January Jones was great in this role. I loved her friendship with Mandy, too.

Jen - my biggest gripe of this show was the friendship lost between Kat & Jen, I loved Jen’s character and her storyline was very real. I didn’t care for her getting upset about Kat/Justin, I didn’t think they really gave enough background for Jen to really be that into Justin outside of a fling. I felt bad for her with the doctor character at the end. Bummed we won’t get a resolution there. Also found it very strange Jen didn’t know about Kat’s bipolar disorder. 
 

Didn’t Love:

Mitch - his character wasn’t fleshed out very well and we really had no chance to like him after the initial speculation of him with Serena. We didn’t see enough of him & Carol’s relationship to understand their connection or be invested. 

I’ll forgive the small quips that didn’t make sense like Kat taking her senior test at 21, their similar heights, and the incredibly short turnaround between Kat & Justin beginning and having a great deal of success. I do remember Shelby Lyons having a pretty quick turnaround when she switched from singles to pairs with Brian Wells. 

[Roseanna]

On 1/11/2020 at 5:35 PM, showme said:

1. Carol is not perfect, but she is real. Kat is simply nasty, very unlikable, I wonder what the hot guy saw in her. Jenn is way better than Kat as a love interest.

Kat wasn't simply nasty, nor unlikable. In the beginnining of the series she was a great big sister who always came to Serena when she asked for help - and even after Carol had totally dumped her elder daughter's skating career and supported only Serena for which Serena accused Kat to be envious. Both said to Kat that she was a failure when she didn't dare to jump although both knew that Kat had fall was due to her mother's ambitious order. That was a huge deception, and Carol made it in order to protect herself. 

As for Justin, Jenn was "the nice girl next door", so why would "the hottest guy in the town" who could get any girl he wanted want another easy conquest, except for a fling. Serena was a challenge.  

[Roseanna]

On 1/30/2020 at 8:10 PM, iMonrey said:

This is the biggest problem I had with the show, actually. In the end, Kat and Justin hadn't even practiced in over a week, and then went straight into a competition. Without even warming up. And came in first. WTF? No way. 

I agree completely. In addition, instead of concentrating before the competion, Kat started to deal with her sister's troubles. One simply can't and shouldn't do that kind of thing! And no decent family member wouldn't even tell such things to an athlete just before the competion, unless somebody was on the death bed.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Roseanna
add "f" to "amily"

[Roseanna]

On 1/11/2020 at 3:54 AM, EarlGreyTea said:

See, out of the many outlandish things on the show, I could buy this one completely without having to see too much of the relationship between Jenn and the doctor. The real relationship here is between Jenn and Kat, and all of that resentment and fighting over the last 10 episodes- THAT'S the real groundwork that led to Jenn siding with the doctor. This was just one time too many that Kat and her family got one over on Jenn. Jenn can only take so many hits in one year. So as disappointing as it was, I DID find it realistic. Frankly, I thought Jenn forgave Kat a little too quickly in the last episode, and the friendship was much too one-sided for my taste.

I think there was a reason why we were shown Kat and Jenn as little girls on the podium - Jat was the winner, Jenn got the silver medal but her whole family fawned over her and as a "good girl" she was raised, she congratulated Kat. There must have been envy inside Jenn from the beginning but because her upbringing she didn't admit it even to herself but tried hard to be a "good friend".

Also, even though Kat wished Jenn to fall, the crux of the matter was Jenn continued to skate against the doctor's warnings because her parentswere so ambitious and made such economical sacrificies for her and despite her pain she didn't want to disappoint them. As a good daughter she couldn't blame them after the fall, nor admit to herself that she had chosen not to tell the truth to her parents, so she was all the more angry towards Kat.  

[Roseanna]

On 1/7/2020 at 12:44 PM, Dani said:

I know they laid they groundwork for Serena being abused early on but the actual reveal felt like it came out of left field. They should have made Serena a bigger character for that to have more impact. It ended up feeling like a last minute change. 

I think it was rather a good idea to show us just as little as other people, especially Kat, knew.  Thinking back, it's clear why they made Serena's dad to come and leave - no doubt that's why the attention of an older man was seemed so tempting to her.    

Basically it was the story how Kat and Jenn tried to protect Serena but after suspecting wrongly Mitch, they couldn't see the real culprit who was so just under their nose and so nice. Plus, Serena lied to Kat that he dated Drew.     

On 2/4/2020 at 8:16 PM, healthnut said:

Mitch - his character wasn’t fleshed out very well and we really had no chance to like him after the initial speculation of him with Serena. We didn’t see enough of him & Carol’s relationship to understand their connection or be invested. 

I agree. I never understood why he liked, or even loved, Carol, or why he saw her as a good mother. Plus, dating the mother to a girl he trained simply wasn't a good idea.    

[Roseanna]

On 1/31/2020 at 3:09 AM, Mabinogia said:

The Cutting Edge was a great movie. This might be more like Cutting Edge 3 (which apparently is a thing that exists lol) but it is NO Cutting Edge. I will still watch that movie every time I happen upon it playing. 

This is a soap opera that happens to take place in the skating world. Which is fine if that's what it wants to be, but it is not a show about skating or what it takes to be a skater, or what it takes to be a champion. 

The Cutting Edge worked, well, for many reasons, but one of them was that Kate and Doug worked their asses off to be the best. They got drunk that one time, but that was it. Kate was a spoiled rich girl but I never once thought she didn't take her skating seriously. Justin, who would be the Kate in this version, comes across more as someone for whom skating is so easy he can just fuck off whenever he wants and still be the best. 

Doug was coming from hockey which was totally different and really worked his ass off to be a pairs skater and also took it super seriously and was good, but he was good because he worked at it. Kat, our Doug replacement in this show, is also someone who doesn't really seem to work hard but is just naturally good. 

I want to see people who work hard and sacrifice for their dream, not two spoiled losers who are just getting by on their natural talent and a great deal of unearned praise. 

I did like Jenn's story, Serena's story, Dasha's story, hell, even Carol's story. I just didn't like Justin and Kat the wonder twins who get everything they want without all that much effort while everyone else's live's fall apart no matter how hard they try. 

I haven't seen Cutting edge (maybe I will!), but that's a good comparation. Instead of Dashas's realistic plan (two years to nationals), they chose to present that Kat's problem only as psychological and once she got over them and dared to jump and trust that Jason didn't let her fall, she was simply super, evidently even without warming-up.

Most of all, too easy winning was wrong dramatically if they had plans for a second season or more. What if their competitors would have won them almost until the Olympics - or at least the first year after which their main competitors would be a foreign pair who would win them until the Olympics?

Also, when a couple gets mutual love in the end of the first season, there is no more tension between them. They must suffer more to earn the happy end! (It's different if it's the story of the relationship or marriage from the beginning.)    

   

 

[Roseanna]

On 1/11/2020 at 5:25 AM, Dani said:

I didn’t find it unrealistic just poorly developed. They could have done so much more. My biggest issue actually is that they had her immediately forgive Kat and swept everything under the rug. Spending more time on Jenn and the doctor or showing that Jenn was tentative about being friends again would have made the last scene work better. It also would have made the damage to their friendship seem more significant. As it is I would not be surprised if the whole issue is resolved by Jenn finding out Kat was right and then they go back to being bff’s again. 

 

On 1/11/2020 at 5:31 AM, EarlGreyTea said:

Agreed. Jenn was WAY too forgiving. I think I'd have bought the relationship more if they were the ones who were sisters. Jenn went out of her way WAY too many times for someone who barely reciprocated. I'm trying to think one of thing Kat did for Jenn that equaled anything Jenn did for Kat, but I can't. I could buy it better if Jenn was Kat's older sister. Then her generosity would make more sense. Not that friends can't be like sisters, but there was too much self-sacrifice going on.

Also, Jenn seemed to get over not being able to skate way too quickly. That arc was over and done with in about 5 seconds. That was annoying too. I'd be interested in Dasha she 

I agree that Jenn got over not being able to skate too quickly after Dasha told her own experiences in the Church. I don't believe that one is helped at all when someone says "I have had that problem, too", rather I believe one gets angry because the other begins to speak about herself instead of giving empathy, f.ex. helping to see what feelings really are behind the words.

But as for Jenn forgiving too easily, I think she had least to forgive, unlike Justin, Dasha and Marcus. Jenn got angry at Kat when she heard that she had had sex with Justin and then she accused Kat to take all the things she wanted. But Jenn wasn't dating Justin and had only said to Kat she had wanted to have sex with him, he was known to sleep once with all girls, she realistically had no hope for more and at that time she couldn't know that Kat would get a more permanent relationship with Justin.

All in all, Kat hadn't taken anything from Jenn. Nor can winning Jenn in skating over ten years mean that Kat "took away" what her friend wanted - they were competing fairly and Kat had always been better.

The only thing Jenn really had to forgive was Kat's wish that she would fall. But Kat spoke in anger after Jenn refused to made up and, most of all, Jenn didn't fall because of Kat's words but because she continued to skate despite her injury in order to please her parents. 

As for Kat's "barely reciprocating", I think that is too harsh although it was Justin who noticed that Jenn limped. In the beginning Kat asked Jenn about her injury and just after making love with Justin Kat, instead of concentrating on her own happiness, showed interest in Jenn's sadness about not being able to skate any more.

It's true that Jenn was too self-sacrificing, but she did it mostly from her iniatiative. She came to Kat to suggest that they would brake into Mitch's caravan and insisted that Kat wouldn't go to the party. Then when she was about to have sex with Justin in a car, she saw Kat and got concerned about her and left Justin which was really, really weird.

So Jenn shouldn't have blamed Kat for her own much too generous but voluntary actions but rather ask herself why did she believe that she had to earn her parents' love and Kat's friendship by making sacrifices?

         

Edited February 16, 2020 by Roseanna
clarifying meaning

[Roseanna]

On 1/7/2020 at 12:44 PM, Dani said:

I really like Jenn but the writing for her was all over the place. Her relationship with the doctor should have happened earlier to explain why she was so quick to jump to his defense. 

Jenn couldn't have a relationship with the doctor earlier because she was obsessed with Justin and concentrated in skating, pleasing her parents and helping Kat and Serena. Plus, she was older than Serena, so she did probably know that it was wrong for the doctor to date with his patients.

It was only after she had lost everything else after her injury and realized that Justin wasn't perfect and she was no longer the doctor's patient, she became interested in him.

And although her friendship with Kat was renewed, it was still shaky, so suspicions ("you lied to me, so Serena can lie too", "you try to destroy my happiness) won her.

The doctor is really a jerk. He has a profession where he can easily find girls who have problems and feel there is no other who will help them like Serena and Jenn. 

[Roseanna]

On 1/31/2020 at 3:09 AM, Mabinogia said:

The Cutting Edge worked, well, for many reasons, but one of them was that Kate and Doug worked their asses off to be the best. They got drunk that one time, but that was it. Kate was a spoiled rich girl but I never once thought she didn't take her skating seriously. Justin, who would be the Kate in this version, comes across more as someone for whom skating is so easy he can just fuck off whenever he wants and still be the best. 

I agree. However talented one is, if one believes heavily in the night, one has better not to drive a car in the morning for there is still alchohol in the blood. So, because his reactions were slowed, Justin just couldn't Kat that he didn't let her fall.

[Roseanna]

On 1/11/2020 at 10:04 AM, ShellsandCheese said:

The best characters were in my opinion, Dasha and Jenn. It's never a good sign when the most memorable thing about a show are supporting characters who didn't get nearly as much screen time as your main characters. Here are a few things I think could have improved the show:

1. Not using bipolar as an excuse for the fact that both Kat and Carol were just very unlikeable. Both were assholes to put bluntly. 

 

On 1/11/2020 at 5:35 PM, showme said:

1. Carol is not perfect, but she is real. Kat is simply nasty, very unlikable

For some reason, although I agree that the show wasn't "realistic", I liked it as a soap it was, and watched it anew.

So I disagree that Kat was nasty, except after she gave up her medicines after which she didn't care of anything than winning in skating and didn't care about Jenn, Marcus, nor Serena. Before she had a great big sister (in fact, had been that all her life), always coming to her help even though she had been really nasty toward her. Carol treated her so badly that it was understandable that she didn't believe that her "new beginning" would now succeed when it so many times before hadn't. 

Also Carol ceased to be constantly nasty towards Kat before she got her medicines, but her behavior in the beginning colored her image later, not to speak of causing Kat's fall and lying about it which no doubt made that Kat couldn't win trauma and was afraid to jump.

I agree that mental illness was presented too much as a cause of nastiness and selfishness.

However, Serena was also nasty towards Kat. Although Kat had taken care of her kid sister for years, Serena blamed her for being envious because she had failed and Serena had a possiblity where Kat had failed. Later, Serena told Kat how much easier it was at home without her. I guess Serena had been envious towards her big sister on whose success their mother had understandable mostly concentrated before. Well, Serena was only sixteen years. 

But what about Jenn's parents? I don't doubt that they loved their daughter, but their expectations about her success made her impossible to care about her health. Marcus mom woudn't have rather seen her son to become a doctor but didn't pressure on him. 

Perhaps the best parent in the show was Mandy who, although "only" a step-mom, spoke sense both to Justin and James. 

[Roseanna]

On 1/31/2020 at 3:09 AM, Mabinogia said:

I want to see people who work hard and sacrifice for their dream, not two spoiled losers who are just getting by on their natural talent and a great deal of unearned praise. 

I did like Jenn's story, Serena's story, Dasha's story, hell, even Carol's story. I just didn't like Justin and Kat the wonder twins who get everything they want without all that much effort while everyone else's live's fall apart no matter how hard they try. 

Also irl hard work alone is no guarantee to success. One can have an accident or one's relative dies in the "wrong moment" etc. Or one is simply good enough or one is brilliant but there are competors who are even better or judges value them more. 

On the other hand, even though there are areas where one can succeed without hard work, sport is hardly that. So the time scale for Kate and Justin was simply too short. One wouldn't take new elements to their program after doing them successfully three times which would also mean that one would be too tired new day.

Also, after we were told that Kat succeeded because she give up her medicines, in the end we were supposed to believe that she would succeeded after mania and with litium cure. Even Carol warned of it, so how could Dasha allow it? 

On 1/12/2020 at 5:58 PM, Mabinogia said:

I wonder if, if they had been given a second season right away, they would not have had everyone forgive Kat right away. It would have been interesting to end this season with the letter. Then next season is Kat actually doing something to make amends for all her shitty behaviour. I just feel like she made everyone miserable, said "not my fault, I'm sick" and they all said "oh, okay, free pass!" Instead she should be working to repair the damage she's caused. Instead, everyone else's lives seem to be worse while she's getting everything she ever wanted. 

Next season I would love the show to switch focus. Dasha trades in Kat for Serena and Jenn. She could start a rehab/coaching business where she takes in "broken" skaters, bestows her special brand of wisdom on them and makes them better people. I would love Dasha to get her hands on poor little Serena. That girls life up to now has been utter crap!

I agree that the development was too short, especially Kat and Justin's relationship. But apart from him, I don't think Kat had made that much damage to others, especially compared damage Carol had done to her daughter. Istead of revealing at once that's Kat's fall was her fault which would have make Kat to dare to jump sooner again, she constantly damaged her self-esteem ("lost potential"). 

Actually Kat did, albeit intentionally, a service to Marcus who chose sport over medicine school because of her example and, after being snubbed by her, got a girlfriend who suited him better and whom her mom evidently liked more.

Kat can't be blamed for others' misfortunes - except partly Carol's because accusing Mitch for sleeping with Serena she revealed to Mitch that her mother hadn't been with her the previous night, but basically it was Carol's fault as she had - again - had one night stand which would probably have revealed later in another way to Mitch (it happened at the hotel and Leah had earlier heard from somebody's mom that Kat and been in Justin's suite).

I don't especially like Serena who was many times nasty to Kat and then asked for her to come and help her, but I try to understand that she was only sixteen. In any case, one of the really good scenes, Carol admitted that as the mother, taking care of Serena was her responsibility, not Kat, whom she urged to go and skate - and Serena agreed, proving she was at last grown up a bit.

As for Jenn, I have have already said that her fall wasn't Kat's fall, and her jealousy because of Justin was unreasonably - it was him who chose Kat over her. 

As for your suggestion about Dasha taking care of "broken skaters", I don't think Serena was that. She failed once but there was no physical or psychological reason, unlike Kat, why she wouldn't succeed next season.

Jenn could become a good couch - but only after she had dealt with her tendency to be too dependent on others's opinion, take too much responsibility for others's happiness and not being set her limits and satisfy their own needs. She should first go to therapy and deal with her family problems, her envy "being always second" and her habit hide it by helping constantly Kat. Plus, her tendency with choose wrong men. 

[Roseanna]

I have now researched a bit, reading a book about Susanna Rahkamo and Petri Kokko who won European Championship in ice dancing in 1995 and silver in the World Championship. It took ten years from them, because they began from the bottom and because of judges. Susanna had been a single skater and when Petri lost his ice dancing partner, she suggested she would become a new one. They f.ex. watched videos for hours to learn what it was that made the top couples to great, and noticed that their technique was sure and that they all were original. So they first decided to concentrate on technique (they even changed their pelvis position and thereby their whole skating style which gave them continuous, steady, connecting speed as well as upper body freedom to move) and then deepen artistry because imitating others they couldn't win.

In both items one just can't believe that Justin has what is demanded to win. We are shown that he once wakes up at 4.30 am to practice, otherwise it's Kat (and in the flashback Carol) who practive at late hours when there is nobody else on ice. And no ambitious skater wouldn't boast to skip artistry lessons for five years (Rahkamo and Kokko's choreographer spent a week to teach them hand's right position).  

Edited February 29, 2020 by Roseanna
correcting grammar

[Zima]

As many have said, I had a hard time buying Carol and Kat as mother and daughter.  January Jones looks like she's about 32, and Kaya looks about the same age, if not older! 

I loved the first half of the show, but the last few episodes were like...wtf is happening? They really did throw all kinds of crap in there.

I found the bipolar stuff so compelling until they just went super weird with it.  Had they handled it better. the subject could have been something that set it apart from similar shoes.  Instead, they went the super dramatic route with Kat.

Marcus and Jenn really did get shit on all season. Marcus ended up being dull as hell, but like many others have said, Jenn wound up being my favorite character.  They did the minorities so dirty on this show. 

I hated the baby storyline. I hated the "Carol becomes a successful real estate agent" crap. 

 

 

 

 

[MartyQui]

On 1/11/2020 at 7:03 PM, nomodrama said:

The Dr being the guy Kat's sister was sleeping with was a big shocker for me. I actually gasped when they revealed it.

I knew it when she showed off the expensive sunglasses.  Of course a creep trying to seduce a 16 year old would buy her stuff.  That plot line just turned my stomach.

[luvthepros]

On 1/9/2020 at 11:18 AM, showme said:

I can't root for Kat, she is selfish, abrasive and mean. So strange characters on the show would give her opportunities after opportunities, she doesn't deserve it!

As for the actress, she looks almost as old as January Jones, and she is supposed to be her daughter? miscast for sure.

I don't agree. Kat looks OLDER than her mother. January Jones is a beautiful woman and very youthful looking. the actress who plays Kat looks haggard in most of her scenes.

[luvthepros]

So.....now that there will not be a season 2 to answer this question......

Do you think Kat and Justin won sectionals?

[showme]

On 2/12/2021 at 1:09 PM, luvthepros said:

I don't agree. Kat looks OLDER than her mother. January Jones is a beautiful woman and very youthful looking. the actress who plays Kat looks haggard in most of her scenes.

LOL!

She does look haggard most of the time.

BTW, is the show cancelled?

[luvthepros]

17 hours ago, showme said:

LOL!

She does look haggard most of the time.

BTW, is the show cancelled?

Netflix did cancel the show. There will be no season two.