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Episode Discussion II: The TFGH


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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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17 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

For some reason, Elizabeth is always thisclose to going broke, when as head nurse at GH she should be pulling down a low six-figure salary. That doesn't make her rich—or able to shoulder three college tuitions on her own—but they write her as barely able to keep food on the table. Elizabeth is the financially struggling single mother, for some reason.

Yeah, I understand why they do it for soapy domestic drama, but given the family resources and in-laws as well as money from evil Franco she should be more than fine at this point in her life.

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Sigh. This just pisses me off all over again. EK/PM had the opportunity to take a legacy character with children from other legacy characters in a hospital-related relationship that hadn't been properly explored. With Elizabeth and Finn played by two great actors who had shown they could bring it WHEN written well and actually written for which happened rarely while paired.

A doctor and the head nurse. Her best friend was the co-head chief. Her 3 boys, his daughter, the bulk of them some of the best younger actors on the show. Laura, Scotty, Gregory, and Chase as family as well. 

I mean, fricken, legacy, GH family here with so much story and heart. Something real, heartwarming and beautiful could have built from this. But nope they ignored them for two months. Dropped the Aiden storyline. Focused almost entirely on Chase and Brooklyn. Gregory dead. Scotty pops up only once in a while. Terry, hah! Laura's obsessed with Heather. Bum-rushed Finn through addiction, cheating, breakup, job loss, isolation, breakdown, goodbye, he gone. And now Jake is vamoosed off to Barcelona soon while Violet is ensconced as the slip-right-in child for EK's golden couple, Brooklyn and Chase.

Sigh...

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12 hours ago, jsbt said:

Between Audrey and the Hardys, Laura, whatever Lucky or Luke left provided for her which I suspect is a considerable amount over the years (Luke used to regularly shave off pieces of the Ice Princess to keep the family in clover), Franco's ill-gotten gains, etc. I think she should be good, unless it's about pride.

This reminds me to ask, has the Show addressed Elizabeth's current relationship with Audrey or written a death for Audrey, and I missed it? For however many years while Laura was away from Port Charles, Audrey/Grams spent a lot of time babysitting child Cam. When it wasn't Audrey, there were references to Bobbie babysitting Cam and Jake if they weren't in hospital daycare. 

The last time I recall that Audrey was mentioned was she couldn't make it to Franco and Elizabeth's wedding, but she wrote Elizabeth a letter. It would be good for Elizabeth's financials to be mentioned even if it's just that inheritance from the Hardys helps her pay for Cam's expenses. Luke was living off Tracy's money in the years since Elizabeth had children and he didn't consider Cam or Jake to be his grandchildren, so I doubt she has money from him.  

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I'm on Team Take the Deadbeat's Money. It spends just as well as anyone else's dollar. Jake should have money of his own though - Edward's will gave a percentage of ELQ shares to all his grandkids/great-grandkids. Even if Jake can't sell it to anyone but a Q, you'd think cousin Michael the turd or Ned or slimy Uncle Drewfus would be panting to own just a bit more of ELQ and would buy some shares from him.

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(edited)
26 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

This reminds me to ask, has the Show addressed Elizabeth's current relationship with Audrey or written a death for Audrey, and I missed it?

Not that I know of, but I have hardly been a constant viewer the last decade. It still astonishes me that Rachel Ames' last (to date) appearance was Audrey alone in a room, writing a voice-over letter to Liz about fucking Franco.

26 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

The last time I recall that Audrey was mentioned was she couldn't make it to Franco and Elizabeth's wedding, but she wrote Elizabeth a letter. It would be good for Elizabeth's financials to be mentioned even if it's just that inheritance from the Hardys helps her pay for Cam's expenses. Luke was living off Tracy's money in the years since Elizabeth had children and he didn't consider Cam or Jake to be his grandchildren, so I doubt she has money from him.  

I'm not convinced about that. Luke's financial status was always all over the map depending on story but he would always whip out the Ice Princess or other stuff whenever needed for himself or the family, and he did feel a vague sense of responsibility to Lucky's family in those years in the 2000s even when he and GV's Lucky were estranged. Nonetheless, even without that or Franco (or assuming Lucky didn't help out, which I don't believe) there's no way Audrey or Laura would hang her out to dry.

Edited by jsbt
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24 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

This reminds me to ask, has the Show addressed Elizabeth's current relationship with Audrey or written a death for Audrey, and I missed it?

They have not written anything of the sort.

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Oh, and FWIW: Say what we will about Drew, but if asked (or if any of the Q elders were asked, really) I have no doubt he would provide for Jake.

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(edited)
12 hours ago, jsbt said:

I think it's ridiculous that Laura wouldn't have the money, but yes Liz should absolutely take Jason's cash. That being said, I have a very hard time buying that Elizabeth is strapped at this point. Between Audrey and the Hardys, Laura, whatever Lucky or Luke left provided for her which I suspect is a considerable amount over the years (Luke used to regularly shave off pieces of the Ice Princess to keep the family in clover), Franco's ill-gotten gains, etc. I think she should be good, unless it's about pride.

IIRC, Luke lost possession of the Ice Princess to Helena at some point near the end of AG's run, that's why he initially married Tracey for her money, ugh. Heaven forbid he go work for the WSB or something. I loved the character, but damn. Just TIIC desire to trash an iconic character that, along with GF, pretty much saved the whole genre 45 years ago.

Speaking of GF/Laura Collins, I'm starting to feel like this fixation on Heather is bordering on pathological. As much as Portia irritates me, she made some valid points, just delivered in an over-the-top fashion. Old-school GH might have had Laura busy giving Drew some advice on getting elected. Even better, we might see Ned running against him to stir up some old-fashioned Quartermaine drama. So many possibilities.

Edited by Winston Wolfe
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22 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Lovely. Umm, her friend Nina has a right to know that her sorta lover has been kissing her daughter.

Yeah, but if they tell her and Nina blows it up, she'll get blamed for exposing the affair rather than Willow and Drew for cheating in the first place.

20 hours ago, Daisy said:

She screwed Michael behind her dying's husband's back. She's totally the type.

Yeah, but that was Michael.  What woman could resist his, uh, charms?  Groovy Voodoo?  $$?

7 hours ago, graight said:

Next she'll decide to run off and join the circus.

That would be more interesting than what we're seeing now.

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To be clear, I agree with everyone who says it's ridiculous that Elizabeth is written as being financially insecure. She has a solid family network (even excluding Jason) who would help her out if asked. 

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25 minutes ago, jsbt said:

Oh, and FWIW: Say what we will about Drew, but if asked (or if any of the Q elders were asked, really) I have no doubt he would provide for Jake.

Yes. The character of the current Drew has been utterly ruined, but when BM played "Jake Doe"-Jason Morgan-Drew Cain, Drew and Jake had a great father-son relationship. HW was clearly fond of BM as well; once the news broke of Billy Miller's death HW posted on social media that he was heartbroken over the loss of his TV dad. Makes sense to me because BM shared many more scenes with kid/tween HW than SB has to date. I don't think CM's Drew and HW have ever been in a scene together. 

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Re: Audrey---I think there was a phone call from Elizabeth to her grandmother on the occasion of her being named head nurse.  If anyone has a photo of the GH Memorial Wall, that would probably be the definitive answer as to whether Audrey is supposed to be alive.  

I thought Cameron won a soccer scholarship to Stanford.  He would still have other expenses, but his family is not footing the tuition.

Other people in a family having money doesn't translate into everybody in the family having access to it, so I'm fine if they are depicting Elizabeth as handling her finances independently.  And, yes, Jason should ante up, especially since he missed three years of child support payments.  

It feels like the writers are back to the more concrete method of storytelling, one story at a time, instead of the more nuanced weaving of a bunch of stories together.  I'm a fan of nuance.  

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(edited)
36 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Yes. The character of the current Drew has been utterly ruined, but when BM played "Jake Doe"-Jason Morgan-Drew Cain, Drew and Jake had a great father-son relationship.

I realize I am in the minority around here, but I think schmoozing, cocky and wheeling-dealing Congressman Drew Q is the perfect use of CM's talent since early in his AMC days as Ryan Lavery, before Ryan became unbearable. It suits his best type onscreen. I can understand why people are beyond tired of Drew after the last few years, but I think the Nina/Willow/political stuff is his zone and I think PM and co. reset him perfectly. The problem is a lot of the show remains a total mess due to BTS chaos, and a lot of people understandably (and some biased fanbases less so) are too tired of Drew. Anyway, YMMV.

But yes: Drew would absolutely take care of Jake. The reason they don't share scenes is, just like when Steve first came back in '17(?), they want to downplay the Drew/Jake relationship with Jason back. In fact using that relationship would allow for a pang of vulnerability and dimension in the current more venal Drew, not that I mind this iteration.

Edited by jsbt
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I'm pretty sure Audrey is still alive, although we haven't heard her honk in who knows how long. 

I started laughing when Trina seemed like she was going to talk Laura into taking up Heather's case again. Just imagining Portia hearing "well, I was going to drop it, Heather even asked me to, but Trina made a compelling argument that made me reconsider and keep working on it," was some of the best entertainment I've gotten out of this show in years. 

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(edited)
1 hour ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Speaking of GF/Laura Collins, I'm starting to feel like this fixation on Heather is bordering on pathological. As much as Portia irritates me, she made some valid points, just delivered in an over-the-top fashion. Old-school GH might have had Laura busy giving Drew some advice on getting elected. Even better, we might see Ned running against him to stir up some old-fashioned Quartermaine drama. So many possibilities.

When this story started in March I was among the few open to the idea of Heather being softened and made into sort of a kooky talk-to for Laura, a la Alley Mills' role on B&B. I thought it might be an interesting use of the family history and a surprising and unconventional turn in what had become a one-note psycho, though it was always controversial. Now it's all Laura does, it's incredibly unpopular with the audience and Trina can't buy airtime. Just send Heather off to rehab her life somewhere else, I'm done with it.

The fact that Mills apparently cites Chris Van Etten as co-HW again in her new interview about the storyline and working with him on it also has not gone unnoticed by me.

Edited by jsbt
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12 minutes ago, jsbt said:

When this story started in March I was among the few open to the idea of Heather being softened and made into sort of a kooky talk-to for Laura, a la Alley Mills' role on B&B. I thought it might be an interesting use of the family history and a surprising and unconventional turn in what had become a one-note psycho, though it was always controversial. Now it's all Laura does, it's incredibly unpopular with the audience and Trina can't buy airtime. Just send Heather off to rehab her life somewhere else, I'm done with it.

The fact that Mills apparently cites Chris Van Etten as co-HW again in her new interview about the storyline and working with him on it also has not gone unnoticed by me.

I  just saw that.  I think that was very dumb of her.   Chris calls me up late at night and we giggle coming up with plotlines?  She's bragging about being the pet.  I mean, even LW doesn't do that.  She's someone who needs a publicist, but of course as a soap actress, doesn't have one.  She is not good at this.  I will tell you it also  made me recall that back in the day, she gave an interview to People or something like that, suggesting the Wonder Years dad should be killed off and the show should focus on her as a single mother during those times.  I was obsessed with the wonder years when I was young, and I remember this.  Makes you go,  hmmm.

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Mills didn't mean anything malicious by it; a lot of soap stars have talked about talking with the writers over the years. (Nor did LW) She is far from the first. What annoys me is they rehired CVE immediately, it's nothing to do with her.

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2 hours ago, jsbt said:

Yeah, I understand why they do it for soapy domestic drama, but given the family resources and in-laws as well as money from evil Franco she should be more than fine at this point in her life.

Franco was sued by his victims and any earnings from his artwork was awarded to them. He was able to contribute to the family expenses from his salary as an art therapist at GH. If he has any life insurance, she would have been the beneficiary.

 

45 minutes ago, JMO said:

I thought Cameron won a soccer scholarship to Stanford.  He would still have other expenses, but his family is not footing the tuition.

 

Cam has a full scholarship to his dream school playing soccer that included tuition and room & board. I found annoying that he was going to give that up to stay in Port Charles to work at Kelly's (now Bobbie's) and attend PCU. 

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(edited)
15 minutes ago, jsbt said:

Mills didn't mean anything malicious by it; a lot of soap stars have talked about talking with the writers over the years. (Nor did LW) She is far from the first. What annoys me is they rehired CVE immediately, it's nothing to do with her.

Not malicious.  Self-involved and foolish.  I stand by my opinion on that. 

Edited by CeChase
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As much as I miss the character of Cameron Webber, I'm glad the writers sent him off to Stanford where he is happily living offscreen instead of putting him in jail or a coma or having his name on a headstone of an empty plot in the cemetery like other members of his extended family. 

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(edited)
3 hours ago, JMO said:

so I'm fine if they are depicting Elizabeth as handling her finances independently. 

to me it always felt Elizabeth was always financially independent [and struggling].  It always felt to me she wanted to stand on her own two feet for the most part so she was always working class/paycheque to paycheque-esque vs. just waiting for the windfalls to come. like she was even Jax/Carly's Courtney surrogate at one point to help pay the bills.

 

wrong name, but still annoying blonde.  thanks for the correct @nilyank

Edited by Daisy
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17 minutes ago, Daisy said:

to me it always felt Elizabeth was always financially independent [and struggling].  It always felt to me she wanted to stand on her own two feet for the most part so she was always working class/paycheque to paycheque-esque vs. just waiting for the windfalls to come. like she was even Jax/Carly's surrogate at one point to help pay the bills.

She was Jax/Courtney's surrogate.

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18 hours ago, jsbt said:

I think it's ridiculous that Laura wouldn't have the money, but yes Liz should absolutely take Jason's cash. That being said, I have a very hard time buying that Elizabeth is strapped at this point. Between Audrey and the Hardys, Laura, whatever Lucky or Luke left provided for her which I suspect is a considerable amount over the years (Luke used to regularly shave off pieces of the Ice Princess to keep the family in clover), Franco's ill-gotten gains, etc. I think she should be good, unless it's about pride.

Also, wasn’t Jason declared legally dead? Wouldn’t he have left money to his son and/or Elizabeth that they could’ve spent a good chunk of, over the past 3 years or put away to gather interest somewhere?

 I 💯 think Jason can and should pay but I hate that we have to see Elizabeth “struggling” so that he can look all noble.

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On 7/12/2024 at 10:03 PM, ffwbe said:

Jason wants to throw money at Jake, Elizabeth shouldn't have even been telling him about Jake going to school. Especially when he has to ask questions like "does Jake even know Spanish?" Let him go give his money to Carly's kids. Elizabeth should not take his money and agree.

Jason should pay for Jake’s education and whatever else Jake needs financially until he’s done with his education.  It’s the least he could do for not being a part of his life or helping raise him.  This was probably for the best, but still.  Take the money, it’s all Jason has to offer.

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I just finished watching the past two weeks and yes, soaps, teevee, etc., but JEEBUS CRIPES ON A CRACKER! Portia is acting as if Laura is trying to get the governor to grant a pardon to Heather and so she can be released from prison. While I agree Laura just needs to STOP with the rationalization-because Heather sure as hell hadn’t had the poisoning in the 70s and 80s, and did some attempted murders. And never was there any conversations about them having a familial connection in the years before when Laura was on the show.

Portia can just take several seats and STFU.

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I’m not sure if it’s writer transition or just attempted fake-out, but it’s hard to tell where this cobalt story is going. I thought Heather’s chat with Laura would put it to bed but maybe not. The only thing for sure is that it’s consuming quite a lot of episode time; I’m left to assume it’s going to continue to give Portia a storyline (that I’ll not be watching). 

Maxie/KS’s “I’m impressed” look last week when Sasha admitted to switching out the DNA sample hair was gold. Glad to see her involved in two active storylines. 

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Maxie has had great dialogue this past week.  So happy to see the character so engaged.

The only thing I can see coming out of the Heather/Cobalt story is that someone is going to challenger her for Mayor if there is an election this year for Mayor.

 

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2 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

The only thing I can see coming out of the Heather/Cobalt story is that someone is going to challenger her for Mayor if there is an election this year for Mayor

too bad Spencer isn't around to tamper with the results....

Portia's voice is like nails on a chalkboard.  Every word.  Glad Curtis is being "reasonable" about Heather, only because it pisses off Portia so much.   I wish they'd disagree offscreen, though.  Did I hear that Marshall is gone?  Yay.

And damn, Willow is now making me root for Michael who I normally detest.

And, of course Elizabeth should take the money.  There is nothing to debate or discuss about that.

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Willow confessing to Nina that she kissed Drew is a swerve I did not expect, but good soap in the hands of CW. "I think you're giving [Drew] far. too much consideration here....And trust me, Drew definitely shares in some of the blame."

Drew is willing to fire Nina from her job as editor of Crimson if Michael wants him to. He's gone from BM great to scum. Telling Willow that in another world they might have been together is stringing her along.

Michael, Nina did not send Drew to prison, that was the judge and the law.

Jason is almost human when they get him away from Carly and her children.

Carly:  "I could never be an intelligence agent, I'm too selfish."  A moment of clarity from Carly. Also she's not smart enough.

Trust this show to have Carly state her stupidity and Brennan to praise her like she's some kind of heroine.

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1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

Telling Willow that in another world they might have been together is stringing her along.

I loathe this phrase so, so much. It's like the person (be it a man or woman-if they are already in another relationship with someone they supposedly love), wouldn't want to be with the person they are with/married to, in "another life", if that makes sense. Be it in teevee, movies, or books. Hate it.

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Spoiler: Brennan has a surprise visitor.

Me: Probably Carly.

Show: Surprise! It's Carly.

It sucks that they contained the actor and a potentially good character to the Carly bubble.

Slap him again, Nina! HARDER!

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10 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Slap him again, Nina! HARDER!

Who?! Sonny?! Drew? Jason?! everyone?!?!

 

15 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Willow confessing to Nina that she kissed Drew is a swerve I did not expect

Aw man, already? I marinate tofu longer than that secret. 

13 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I loathe this phrase so, so much

it's one of those lines that is supposed to be romantic - but then it really isn't for what you said. because there are WAY too many variables and it's like whose to even say we'd be attracted to each other in another life. lol
 

20 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Drew is willing to fire Nina from her job as editor of Crimson if Michael wants him to

A grown up would have said "deal with it." 
Chad really needs to develop new faces. the head roll, tongue in cheek one doesn't work.

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Wow, Drew sucks. He'll fire Nina because Michael is a big baby who can't be an adult and work with her in a professional manner? Michael said himself Nina was a good editor. Who would replace her? Carly again? Spare me.

36 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Carly:  "I could never be an intelligence agent, I'm too selfish."  A moment of clarity from Carly. Also she's not smart enough.

Not to mention she has no patience. She'd get people killed right and left because of her inability to let things play out. 

Wasn't Carly warned off talking to Brennan? Yet another reason she'd be a terrible agent: She never listens to anyone but herself.

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2 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Wasn't Carly warned off talking to Brennan?

Yes. And Anna was too stupid to let them know she wasn't allowed to see him. Because apparently, she's blinded by her wuv/lust for Valentin again to do her fucking job.

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Okay. so I am watching Willow confide to Nina. and Nina is being such a MOM - it really makes my heart happy for her. This is all she really ever wanted and she is showing what a great mom she can be.

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I love that while Carly is Willow's go-to mother figure, she can't go to her about this problem.

The adults today: Nina, Liz, Jake, Charlotte and Jason. Half marks for Willow and Michael.

Nice evil manipulation by Brennan.

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

It sucks that they contained the actor and a potentially good character to the Carly bubble.

I wonder if the actor has limited availability and by having him only interact with Carly, they can get all the scenes shot in a couple of days.

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I loathe this phrase so, so much. It's like the person (be it a man or woman-if they are already in another relationship with someone they supposedly love), wouldn't want to be with the person they are with/married to, in "another life", if that makes sense. Be it in teevee, movies, or books. Hate it.

It's also stringing the other person along and teasing them to continue the fantasy. Had we but world enough and time....

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1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Wow, Drew sucks. He'll fire Nina because Michael is a big baby who can't be an adult and work with her in a professional manner? Michael said himself Nina was a good editor. Who would replace her? Carly again? Spare me.

Drew is a dumbass. He probably said that to make up for kissing Michael's wife. I'm gonna fire the editor-in-chief of the thing that makes the most money for a conglomerate.

Imagine politician Drew, now.

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(edited)

The SLS is SUCH a piece of SHIT. So all that agreeing to bygones with Nina was him being a liar who lies. These ASSHAT writers don’t even care about the whiplash they’re causing.

Nina should have slugged Drew and then kneed him.

I knew it! I knew it! The minute Charlotte apologized and that heavy and hamfisted line  about other kids who lost their families, Anna wasn’t going to do her job. Can’t sent Valentin to prison because CHARLOTTE!

If Jason were smart, he’d go straight to Robert.

That hug with Jake and Jason was all kinds of awkward! I could see Hudson holding his head away and not on Burton’s shoulder.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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Does Carly think she’s playing Brennan? He’s a trained spy woman, he’s playing you! Him asking about Donna felt creepy to me, like he was keeping tabs on her; if not, he was using her to play Carly. Plus, she was telling him way too much. She thinks she so smart and keeps getting into these dangerous situations

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Carly is truly the grandmaster of narcissism. Today, she stories having to feel some guilt that Jason has sacrificed everything for her as her "taking the hit instead of her daughter." Yeah, she's a fucking hero! 😂

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The Elizabeth/Jason/Jake scenes were really well done.  When he's not around Carly or the other Carlys, Jason can be surprisingly self-aware and likeable.  Almost like a real live boy!

Drew just jumping in with offering to fire Nina for Michael was such a dick move.  When Michael's not the least obnoxious person in a scene you've really sunk to new lows.  Also, can't believe Willow already blurted out the kiss secret.  Nina's reactions to both her and Drew were excellent.  Drag him, Nina.  Draaaaggggg him. 

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3 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Carly is truly the grandmaster of narcissism. Today, she stories having to feel some guilt that Jason has sacrificed everything for her as her "taking the hit instead of her daughter." Yeah, she's a fucking hero! 😂

After Drew had sacrificed himself for her by taking the hit and going to jail over her insider trading.Lots of men falling on their swords for her and her stupid actions.

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13 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Jason has sacrificed everything for her

BY HIS OWN CHOICE. Sorry, Show, I can't get on the martyr bandwagon for either of these nitwits.

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Okay, so Valentin needs to take responsibility for his actions, regardless of how it might impact Charlotte.

Thank you, Jason, for that lesson in morality and ethics.

Now, let's talk about Carly.

Seriously, do these writers not read what they write? How can they have Jason say that and not in some way address the parallels with Carly? The hypocrisy, it burns.

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(edited)

It looked like a lot of tongue for an "innocent" kiss, Drew.

What did Anna think would happen to Charlotte? Where Charlotte physically is doesn't make a difference. Charlotte forgiving Anna for shooting her doesn't change that. This sudden consideration for Charlotte makes no sense, as is often the case with Anna. But I do enjoy that it's sticking it to Jason. That's what happens when you make a dumb deal with the FBI for your dumb best friend.

Way to open up the MetroCourt to a lawsuit if some kid drowns because the certified lifeguard was macking on her boyfriend.

Edited by dubbel zout
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Anna is gross. She keeps crossing these lines into deep stupidity. Peter, Valentin. Her ass should be thrown in jail just for being an irredeemable idiot.

Natalia's smugness over Sonny being angry at Ava and not her was also gross. Shows exactly where Sonny's priorities are after a bigot trashed his daughter. 

I don't know why Joss has a job at the pool that she gets paid for for not doing it while someone else who is as qualified could be there actually working as opposed to flirting with police cadet.

The writers need to stop with the casual trashing of the Qs. Who is there to trash anyway? BLQ? Not really. Ned? Not really. Monica? She's put a roof over half of PC's population and some strays. Michael, his wife and kids? Everybody loves them! They can do no wrong. Tracy? She has a mind of her own and opinions. Deal with it.

This stuff stopped being funny a long time ago, if it ever was. Yes. The Qs are particular, doesn't stop these people from mooching off of them, though. So STFU, Lois! Go back to Bensonhurst. 

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