Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[Sake614]

10 hours ago, Suicidy said:

Does Isaiah even have a current medical license in the US?

Details, shmetails. He’s gonna save Lulu’s life! Who needs a medical license? It’s just a stupid piece of paper after all 🤣

[Katy M]

OK, I'm caught up.  

I hate this whole Lulu storyline. If they're going to have her wake up, jsut have her wake up. It's even more ridiculous for a long-term coma patient to come out of it if we're adding random health problems like thrombosis and liver transplants. And while I'm on the liver transplant, who is paying for that?  I know darn well it's not an insurance company.  For Sam to die to give a practically already dead woman part of her liver just adds insult to injury (yeah yeah I know she'll wake up).

If Sasha and Cody want to be together, they can be together. It's legal in NY and 1st cousins getting married was fairly standard practice until about 100 years ago.  There is only a 3% higher chance of birth defects when 1st cousins reproduce.  It probably goes higher than that when you have first cousin upon first cousin upon first cousin, but that's not what we have going on here.

As an on-and-off watcher, most of my Holly experience comes from her marriage with Robert in the '80s.  I am aware (and did see) her conning with Luke and all that before the marriage.  But, she did reform and it's weird to me to see her like this.  I'm still in denial about holding hte cure hostage when the whole town was poisoned, part of which I did see.

Heather, just go away.

And I like that Alexis agrees with me. Ric is NOT helping by defending Ava.  Rick's smarmy sometimes, but I never took him for an idiot before. And, I do believe him when he's saying he's doing it for Molly, but it makes no sense to me.  And never will.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, Francie said:

Holly was introduced in 1982 as part of a scam artist family, though once she started to fall for her mark, Luke, she went along with them reluctantly and eventually 'turned good.'

Aww, come on now @Francie! No need for those “air quotes” because Holly did reform!😏

And I’m going to say Holly pulling that shit with the jeep was because Emma was leaving the show and of course we got Finola. Tristan was sticking around longer before he left.

That said, I had to laugh at Holly’s outrage when Robert confessed he lied to protect Anna being a double agent considering her con artist past.  BUT. Holly was not this unlikeable, snobbish, in for herself and who gives a damn about anyone else (she REFUSED to initially help Lucky until Anna and Jason showed up and Sidwell turned against her) because DIAMONDS. And then this trying to lure Cody back to his gambling days and not being honest with Cody for the reasons.

I don’t care that it’s legal for first cousins to date, marry whatever in NY. It just brings out the ICK factor for me.

 

[DanaK]

36 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don’t care that it’s legal for first cousins to date, marry whatever in NY. It just brings out the ICK factor for me.

It normally would for me, but Sasha and Cody weren't raised knowing each other and didn't know they were cousins until Holly just told Sasha the other day. There's maybe a slight ick, but it's far, far less than if they were long lost siblings

[KittyQ]

1 hour ago, DanaK said:

It normally would for me, but Sasha and Cody weren't raised knowing each other and didn't know they were cousins until Holly just told Sasha the other day. There's maybe a slight ick, but it's far, far less than if they were long lost siblings

This is the way I see it, too. Also, as someone else pointed out, there are plenty of other "ick" relationships in Port Charles, from people who have had relationships with father and son, mother and daughter to people who have multiple kids by different people, some of whom were using false (or at least not original) identities. Two people who never knew each other as relatives being involved is a little icky, but probably easy to get over in the long run.

[Mirabelle]

What if they're really brother and sister instead of cousins?

[Katy M]

54 minutes ago, Mirabelle said:

What if they're really brother and sister instead of cousins?

But, why would they be?  Robert and Mac aren't identical twins, so they shouldn't have come back as father, just as related. And Robert and Dominique were never together, nor were Mac and Holly. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

I still think Holly is wrong and that someone over at the WSB fiddled with the results.  

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I still think Holly is wrong and that someone over at the WSB fiddled with the results.  

If so, it was weird to throw in the comment about her having Robert's mother's eyes.  Cleary the resemblance isn't so uncanny that Mac and/or Robert didn't immedately say, you look my mom.  But, why make  comment about any similarity just to have a switched DNA test story (for the millionth time).  And I also need a motive. I 'm sick of things just happening because reasons.

[ciarra]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

And Robert and Dominique were never together, nor were Mac and Holly. 

If you want to get technical, Mac and Dominique did nothing more than kiss.

I hope this Sasha being Robert's is walked back, but then I hoped that Trina wasn't Curtis's.

[ByaNose]

Assuming that Sasha being Holly & Robert’s daughter I guess the writers wanted to break up (the kinda boring) Sasha and Cody and this is what they came up with. It’s pretty convoluted but isn’t this always the case in soaps. If not, I’m not sure who would have switched them. I think they want Cody to be bad again. The various writers never knew what to do with Josh Kelley. On OLTL, he played a great jerky scam artist kind of guy. Although, I think he took his shirt off more. Which was always a positive. 

Sasha has had a million storylines but I don’t think they’ve done much to propel her character wise. Although, she was heartbreaking during her during Brando’s and their ban’s death. Her drug storylines were always terribly written no matter the head writer. 

[sashabear21]

I'm with Heather on the turquoise jewelry.  And I'm now kinda torn between wanting her and Steven Lars (and take Olivia with you, please!) living a madcap sitcom life completely offscreen, or sticking around to make Curtis's life hell because the balls on that guy! The whole, "your mother (who didn't raise him and who he barely has a relationship with) is your responsibility" spiel was just beyond prickish.  

I love that Sasha immediately went to fake mom Nina for support after getting the paternity news. 

KM looked absolutely wrecked in her final scenes and while Sam hasn't had much to do as a character for awhile and her together with Dante was about as thrilling as watching a drywall installation, I'm sad that this is how they're taking out the character and actress.  

Every time that Laura has to talk about "the years she couldn't be there for Lulu" I wish GF would break the fourth wall and say, "because the showrunners at the time were misogynistic a-holes and wrote horrible drivel for Laura as storylines and then gave me the indignity of being replaced by a blonde wig on a mophandle".  

[CeChase]

This blasphemy against turquoise will not stand!

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, Katy M said:

it was weird to throw in the comment about her having Robert's mother's eyes. 

The show LOVES this kind of idiotic instant-recognition moment. Remember how Sonny was persuaded that Dante was in fact his son because he liked pasta? And Luke and Teethan had to be father and son because they both brought a glass of whiskey to their mouths to drink? Sasha having Robert's mother's eyes isn't quite as inane, but it's dumb. What makes them so distinctive? They're blue? Big whoop. 

2 hours ago, CeChase said:

This blasphemy against turquoise will not stand!

LOL. Does Heather think there is some law requiring her to buy and wear turquoise jewelry? What a stupid comment to make. Say you don't like extreme heat. Good grief.

[Daisy]

16 hours ago, Mirabelle said:

What if they're really brother and sister instead of cousins?

and that would be a little too Flowers in the Attic for me. 

as i pointed out before - I don't really care that Sasha & Cody are cousins because well because i refuse to believe this is Robert's daughter and Mac's son. i refuse this timeline...

but seriously, because it's not the first time it's happened on soaps and it's not the last time. Days of our Lives basically ignored it. and a lot of soaps that went Gasp! you are family!!! they did a side-eye and then it was ignored too. again i bring up Jammy. (and they totally did do the whole taboooo then they actually got married and then i think people just stopped caring) - this isn't to say people can't say still feeel icky about it but i think it's more commonplace then we think.

[Mirabelle]

11 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Assuming that Sasha being Holly & Robert’s daughter I guess the writers wanted to break up (the kinda boring) Sasha and Cody and this is what they came up with. It’s pretty convoluted but isn’t this always the case in soaps. If not, I’m not sure who would have switched them. I think they want Cody to be bad again. The various writers never knew what to do with Josh Kelley. On OLTL, he played a great jerky scam artist kind of guy. Although, I think he took his shirt off more. Which was always a positive. 

 

I've said before that the story for Sasha and Cody is for Cody to be running a scam on Sasha and then for him to develop feelings. This is a classic soap trope which actually hasn't been overused on this show. Bonus if that scam also re-retcons Cody being Mac's son. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Mirabelle said:

I've said before that the story for Sasha and Cody is for Cody to be running a scam on Sasha and then for him to develop feelings.

They already did that with Cody when he first showed up. Except he was scamming Britt.

[mostlylurking]

23 hours ago, DanaK said:

I don’t care that it’s legal for first cousins to date, marry whatever in NY. It just brings out the ICK factor for me.

I feel the same.  Even if it’s legal and not the worst thing in the world, I just would not be able to get past it.  I actually dated someone whose parents were first cousins, but the weird thing was that the parents NEVER once discussed it with him, but other family members did.  So he knew but it was like this enormous elephant in the room because it was never discussed.  Eventually he stopped talking to his parents entirely (not only because of that but that was a major reason).

Anyway, I hope they are not actually related.  Not because I particularly care about Cody but I do like Sasha and she’s been through enough.  Although having Robert Scorpio as a dad would be pretty awesome.

[mostlylurking]

I laughed when Nina was telling Drew to take off his shirt and he was all like really Nina….Now?!  As if he wouldn’t be up for it (unintentional pun sorry).

[Bringonthedrama]

On 10/25/2024 at 3:54 PM, dubbel zout said:

Robert's too classy to take out his feelings on Sasha. Holly is the person Robert should be angry with. He was, but I thought he got over that anger too soon. Though maybe "that's just Holly" is the only reasonable way to deal with her if you don't want to drive yourself over the edge.

 

"Ever since Ace was a little boy..." He's still a little boy, Heather. Alley Mills is such an overactor as Heather. There's no subtlety.

I didn't think he would take out his feelings on Sasha.

I wonder if AM messed up her line, i.e. I think it was probably supposed to be "Ever since Ace was born..." because a police officer literally dragged Heather out of Wyndemere as Esme was giving birth. Ace is now a little boy.

Kudos to GF and NLG; Laura and Alexis's expressions while asking Heather "How far?" 😂

HM does flat out creepy/crazy well. I'm surprised that the little boy who plays Ace was able to ignore her that much when she was all up in his personal space, touching him. He rightly looked uncomfortable when this woman who is a stranger, hugged him.

Welp, I did not have drunk Cody outing Drew's mother/daughter grossness at a bar or Dante proposing to Sam (preview) on my Show bingo card. I guess she dies from complications soon after. 

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 07:06 PM by Bringonthedrama

[YaddaYadda]

I really hate Heather. 

Sonny telling Jason that he was going to the hospital to visit with Dante and check up on Sam because family is important as Jason just stood there blinking was . . . sigh. Ex-wife, mother of one of his sons, no reaction. He's like a dried fruit, you can't squeeze any kind of juice out of him.

Brennan's annoyance at Anna was beautiful. 

Cody decking Drew for making out with his nephew's wife while banging her mother was beautiful. I hope he leaves him a nice set of black eyes.

I didn't not think we'd see Sam after they wheeled her into surgery. I really thought they'd have a stand-in for her and that'd we'd see them from the neck down. I'm not sure why I thought that. 

[tessaray]

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

as i pointed out before - I don't really care that Sasha & Cody are cousins because well because i refuse to believe this is Robert's daughter and Mac's son. i refuse this timeline...

I don't blame you and the story details are so bad they might as well have just put up a title card saying "Yes it doesn't make any sense and we don't care."

But. They kinda wrote themselves into a corner redeeming Sasha and Cody. They're not offensive - together or  separately (I like them both) but no one really cares if they dropped off the face of the earth either. Making them Scorpios is lazy writing but on the bright side the Scorpios aren't the most prolific clan. Robin coming back doesn't appear to be happening anytime soon. Maxie and Spinelli are filler these days and her kids aren't quite old enough yet to be interesting.

Sasha will give Robert a bit more screen time, at least. Cody will be available to delay the inevitable Lante reunion. 🤷‍♀️  Personally I would have rather had more Wards or AJ kids but I understand the choices. 

Eta: I'm usually a glass half-empty kind of person so I'm a little surprised not to really care that Sasha is a Scorpio. 

Edited Monday at 08:05 PM by tessaray

[dubbel zout]

Oh, good grief, Cody. It's bad luck Sasha is the woman you love as well as your first cousin, not a result of you never being able to have good things in your life. I'm okay with him being upset, but this attitude is absurd. What a baby. 

4 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Brennan's annoyance at Anna was beautiful. 

I'm so tired of her weeping over shooting Charlotte. The kid had been terrorizing Anna for weeks and then broke into her apartment. Getting shot might have been a bit extreme, but some sort of consequence wasn't.

6 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Cody decking Drew for making out with his nephew's wife while banging her mother was beautiful. I hope he leaves him a nice set of black eyes.

If only Cody could have punched out Curtis as well. 

[tessaray]

36 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Cody decking Drew for making out with his nephew's wife while banging her mother was beautiful. I hope he leaves him a nice set of black eyes.

I'm glad they played the flashback because I'd forgotten that Sasha told him. But Cody slugging Drew made my day. 🙂 

[Josh371982]

Willow doesn't know that Sasha and Cody know about her nasty ass kissing Uncle Drew does she? If she don't I bet she finds out soon. 

[tessaray]

15 minutes ago, Josh371982 said:

Willow doesn't know that Sasha and Cody know about her nasty ass kissing Uncle Drew does she? If she don't I bet she finds out soon. 

I thought she and Sasha talked about it but could be misremembering. I doubt she knows Sasha confided in Cody.  Also, Willow doesn't know that Nina and Drew are friends with benefits. That's probably going to come back and bite Nina.

Ned might be losing his leverage with Drew though. At this rate, it will end up on the front page and I'm ready with the popcorn. 

Edited Monday at 08:46 PM by tessaray

[Josh371982]

3 minutes ago, tessaray said:

I thought she and Sasha talked about it but could be misremembering. I doubt she knows Sasha confided in Cody.  Also, Willow doesn't know that Nina and Drew are friends with benefits. That's probably going to come back and bite Nina.

Ned might be losing his leverage with Drew though. At this rate, it will end up on the front page and I'm ready with the popcorn. 

I'm so ready for the Willow/Drew Grossness to fully come out. Micheal may do worse to Drew than what Cody did lol. And Willow finding out Nina is banging Uncle Drew SHOULD start killing any interest her cheating ass has in his nasty ass but it probably won't if she's gotten jealous of her mom and Disgusting Drew already. 

[sashabear21]

I still don't get Curtis's dumb convoluted plan of basically coercing Steven Lars to take Heather to Arizona where there's no guarantee that she'll go and absolutely no guarantee that she'll stay.  Did it never occur to him to go to Sonny, sit him down and explain (slowly and not with big words) what a cousin is and then remind him that he had one named Brando who Heather murdered? I mean if you have a friendly neighborhood mob kingpin who's all about family why not use that to your advantage? 

[DanaK]

3 minutes ago, sashabear21 said:

I still don't get Curtis's dumb convoluted plan of basically coercing Steven Lars to take Heather to Arizona where there's no guarantee that she'll go and absolutely no guarantee that she'll stay.  Did it never occur to him to go to Sonny, sit him down and explain (slowly and not with big words) what a cousin is and then remind him that he had one named Brando who Heather murdered? I mean if you have a friendly neighborhood mob kingpin who's all about family why not use that to your advantage? 

It wouldn’t surprise me if Curtis paid Steven a large sum of money (maybe ongoing payments) to take Heather away

[KittyQ]

6 minutes ago, Josh371982 said:

I'm so ready for the Willow/Drew Grossness to fully come out. Micheal may do worse to Drew than what Cody did lol. And Willow finding out Nina is banging Uncle Drew SHOULD start killing any interest her cheating ass has in his nasty ass but it probably won't if she's gotten jealous of her mom and Disgusting Drew already. 

I wonder if it will have any effect on his campaign. In the past (roughly before Clinton) this kind of scandal would kill a candidate, but now, it seems that fewer people worry about this kind of thing - Drew could be the kind of candidate who has blotches on his record, but if the public loves him, they'll overlook them.

[dubbel zout]

27 minutes ago, DanaK said:

It wouldn’t surprise me if Curtis paid Steven a large sum of money (maybe ongoing payments) to take Heather away

Curtis told Steven he'd support him for as long as he needed to get back on his feet, and he's also paying travel expenses and such.

I desperately want this to come back and bite Curtis in the ass, but I doubt it will. No one is crushed to see Heather leave PC.

ETA: No one upset about Heather leaving really sucks the drama out of her release. Is Alley Mills going away for a bit? If not, I suppose she can have a change of heart and return to PC in a few days. 

And Cody spilling the Nina/Drew/Willow triangle beans in a bar with only Drew and Nina to hear was also weak sauce. You tell those secrets when everyone in town is around to hear it! Someone from the Qs should have been there. 

Way to make things dramatic, Show. Sheesh.

Edited Monday at 09:33 PM by dubbel zout

[TVbitch]

Laura on Heather's release: "I can't help but feel like I got this ball rolling." Um, maybe because you totally got that ball rolling, Laura! 🙄 Can't believe they are pinning that on Scotty. 

Anna to Spinelli: "Brennan is hiding information about Valentin and Charlotte." Um, omit the part where YOU helped them flee much? 🙄 Of course she wants to cover up her part in it. 

 

[statsgirl]

I did not expect Cody to deck Drew in a blue collar tavern. I guess that's how Drew's run for office ends.  If so, I'm pretty sure that Nina will get the blame.

I understand why Cody feels that he can't win for losing. His childhood wasn't good, he's bad at cons, and now that he thinks he's found his place in the world, he loses the woman he loves. (I know enough cousins who have married, I'm not worried.)

Oh the threat that Heather will be back!  Of course she'll be back, Ric is still her lawyer in suing the company that made the hip.

While it was nice to see Brennan shut Anna down, Brennan is so lying.

For someone who appears close to her half-brother, Elizabeth didn't seem to have heard that he got out of prison.

[Josh371982]

1 hour ago, KittyQ said:

I wonder if it will have any effect on his campaign. In the past (roughly before Clinton) this kind of scandal would kill a candidate, but now, it seems that fewer people worry about this kind of thing - Drew could be the kind of candidate who has blotches on his record, but if the public loves him, they'll overlook them.

I'm hoping Micheal finds out soon, I can easily see him killing Drew's Campaign. But I'm also thinking Sam's death will leave Dirty Uncle Drew "devastated " and of course Willow will be there to "Comfort " him Marvin Gaye Style.

[YaddaYadda]

17 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

For someone who appears close to her half-brother, Elizabeth didn't seem to have heard that he got out of prison.

She did. She mentioned it a week or two ago that he was out and living in Sedona. I think she was having that convo with Terri.

[dubbel zout]

31 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Laura on Heather's release: "I can't help but feel like I got this ball rolling." Um, maybe because you totally got that ball rolling, Laura! 🙄 Can't believe they are pinning that on Scotty. 

If it hadn't been Laura, it would have been someone else. The show was making too big a deal about Heather's cobalt poisoning.

32 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Anna to Spinelli: "Brennan is hiding information about Valentin and Charlotte." Um, omit the part where YOU helped them flee much? 🙄 Of course she wants to cover up her part in it. 

But she owed it to them because of Charlotte! /s

[Sake614]

UCG of the day: Ace completely ignoring Heather and actively moving away from her. When AM was hugging him, the kid looked like he was trying to crawl INTO the coffee table! 🤣

so Drew putting on a flannel shirt and jeans is going to morph him into a blue collar guy and make him more appealing to that segment of the public? Yeah no. And the Navy seal coming up to the table while Drew says ‘sit down and tell us your stories’ was beyond stupid. Drew can’t swap stories with him because Drew has NO MEMORY of his time as a Seal!

[Katy M]

9 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

And Luke and Teethan had to be father and son because they both brought a glass of whiskey to their mouths to drink?

OMG.  I drink by bringing the glass to my mouth. I must be a Spenser.

[Daisy]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

And Cody spilling the Nina/Drew/Willow triangle beans in a bar with only Drew and Nina to hear was also weak sauce. You tell those secrets when everyone in town is around to hear it! Someone from the Qs should have been there. 

 

it's basically Sonny walking in on Jason and Carly 1/2 naked and going

:D What are we doing guys?!

[JMO]

I'm totally confused.  Doesn't it get messy if you don't drink by bringing the glass to your mouth?

[Artsda]

Laura can't help feel she got the ball rolling on Heather's release? Because she did, this isn't on Ric. 

Portia needs to go blame Laura. 

Way to show Jason doesn't care about his son and his mother.  Sonny having to tell him family first while Jason runs around with Anna. 

I forgot Cody even knew about Drew's kissing Willow.  

[Bringonthedrama]

4 hours ago, KittyQ said:

I wonder if it will have any effect on his campaign. In the past (roughly before Clinton) this kind of scandal would kill a candidate, but now, it seems that fewer people worry about this kind of thing - Drew could be the kind of candidate who has blotches on his record, but if the public loves him, they'll overlook them.

Some people may be appalled at what Cody is accusing him of, but I think the real problem will be that Drew got into a fist fight in a blue-collar tavern and there were witnesses which included a Navy SEAL. (The preview shows Drew punching Cody.) In the Social Media age, it will be hard to contain this incident. 

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

For someone who appears close to her half-brother, Elizabeth didn't seem to have heard that he got out of prison.

She told Terri recently that Steven was out of prison and had settled in Arizona. She was surprised to see him at Pentonville for Heather because he told her (off-screen) he didn't want to come back to Port Charles in part because of Heather. Steven has not told her that Curtis paid him to come back to Port Charles briefly, and has offered him money for his and Heather's expenses until they're settled with steady income in Sedona. All Elizabeth knows is that her brother is saying "it's best" for Heather to come with him to get a fresh start away from Port Charles. 

[graight]

5 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Some people may be appalled at what Cody is accusing him of, but I think the real problem will be that Drew got into a fist fight in a blue-collar tavern and there were witnesses which included a Navy SEAL. (The preview shows Drew punching Cody.) In the Social Media age, it will be hard to contain this incident. 

I kept looking to see (had to watch it multiple times - so good )if any of the bar patrons had their phones out but didn't see any.  These days as soon as anyone raises their voice in a public place, phones pop out quickly. Maybe it will show that on the next episode.

[Winston Wolfe]

On 10/28/2024 at 6:12 AM, sashabear21 said:

Every time that Laura has to talk about "the years she couldn't be there for Lulu" I wish GF would break the fourth wall and say, "because the showrunners at the time were misogynistic a-holes and wrote horrible drivel for Laura as storylines and then gave me the indignity of being replaced by a blonde wig on a mophandle".  

Going back even further (late 70s or early 80s) I remember all the shit the showrunners put GF through because of her so-called weight issues. Despicable treatment for one of the Grand Dames of Soap.

11 hours ago, Katy M said:

21 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

And Luke and Teethan had to be father and son because they both brought a glass of whiskey to their mouths to drink?

OMG.  I drink by bringing the glass to my mouth. I must be a Spenser.

Well, there's always straws.

Edited Tuesday at 11:33 AM by Winston Wolfe

[Josh371982]

4 hours ago, graight said:

I kept looking to see (had to watch it multiple times - so good )if any of the bar patrons had their phones out but didn't see any.  These days as soon as anyone raises their voice in a public place, phones pop out quickly. Maybe it will show that on the next episode.

Was just coming to say I hope it was caught on video!! Let's get this fallout started!

[dubbel zout]

14 hours ago, Sake614 said:

so Drew putting on a flannel shirt and jeans is going to morph him into a blue collar guy and make him more appealing to that segment of the public? Yeah no.

That's a pretty standard move, though. Similar to candidates showing up at a state fair and eating the trademark food. You can't just be some elitist snob in designer suits—you have to show you know how the regular folks dress and behave! It's utterly cynical, IMO, but it also seems to work more often than not.

[Sake614]

18 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

you have to show you know how the regular folks dress and behave

I get that but a pair of jeans and a tee shirt would do the same. I just hate the flannel shirt stereotype. Unless you’re going to farm country.

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, Sake614 said:

I get that but a pair of jeans and a tee shirt would do the same. I just hate the flannel shirt stereotype. Unless you’re going to farm country.

honestly. flannel shirts are more comfy. i'd rock that too. 

[dubbel zout]

Especially in November. There are still some warmish days, but in general, T-shirt weather is over for the time being.

[Cheyanne11]

Yeah, flannel shirts are pretty ubiquitous.  I definitely don't associate them with rural areas only.

Now if they put him in overalls and had him pulling up to the bar on a tractor...