S06.E05: Kiss Kiss Breach Breach

[Trini]

Quote

DANNY TREJO GUEST STARS - Cisco's faith in his ability to fill Barry's shoes as Team Leader is upended when he learns of a shocking murder. Meanwhile, Killer Frost trusts no one except herself to hunt down the dangerous Ramsey Rosso (guest star Sendhil Ramamurthy).

Menhaj Huda directed the episode written by Kelly Wheeler & Joshua V. Gilbert.

Airdate 11/5/2019

[shantown]

Props to Carlos Valdes for the great work tonight, but how sad can we really be about Gypsy when we saw her for all of like ten minutes forever ago?

Also - lots of correct guesses that we’d see Barry and Iris speed away at the top of the episode and speed back just in time for the end. Bummer. 

[SimoneS]

It was better that the last two episodes so that is something. Candice looked beautiful with her curly hair.

I hate that Gypsy is gone just like that. I suppose it is good that Cisco has Kamilla. Most of their relationship has occurred off screen so it is difficult to care. 

I enjoyed Ralph saving Joe. Although Joe's faith monologue was a bit much. I hope that Nash's plan to save Barry gives team something to rally around.

[bettername2come]

I feel like the Iris and Barry going on trip thing was because they deleted that concept for their honeymoon and they finally wanted us to get that. Iris looked fabulous.

The Cisco plot was awesome. That was like a standalone sci-fi movie plot condensed into half a Flash episode, and it made sense without being too predicatable. Carlos was great. And we learned he's named after Mr. T. Weird, but I like it. I've been missing Gypsy and I hope Post-Crisis she's back to life. Gypsy was great when she was onscreen but we haven't seen much of her lately. I think she was pretty perfect for Cisco though - same powers, kinda scary leather-wearing chick, working for good, made him look tall. I was hoping the Echo plot would tie in with the Monitor somehow. 

I loved the Ralph rescuing Joe thing. I didn't see it coming and it was a very in-character, plot relevant reason that I didn't mind them glossing over. 

The pacing was good. I felt like they packed several different plots into 1 ep and 1 day pretty believably. 

Is Frost being the one to check Joe's vitals at the end a continuity error? Did they just forget which one is Caitlin and which is Frost?

[BeautifulFlower]

They really could've cut Killer Frost's plot It added nothing. Easily could've written in some Barry and Iris scenes.

[quarks]

Geesh, Barry. As if I didn't have enough issues with you, now you confess that you like Jurassic Park more than Empire Strikes Back? I can't with you. I just can't. 

[Lantern7]

We got a computer algorithm that thinks like Barry Allen: B.A.R.I. Now I'm hoping Felicity created O.L.L.I. when she raised Mia in the future.

Barry and Iris go on vacation for rest, relaxation, and earth-shattering sex that we will never see, and Cisco gets left behind to solve his ex's murder. I'm surprised the Crisis didn't rear it's head, destroying Earth-19. It already claimed one Earth, and I don't think even a character played by Danny Trejo could forestall it. Seriously, can you imagine a wall of anti-matter moving back a few inches due to Breacher's mean look?

Anyway, Cisco gets framed for murder by . . . another Cisco. Because while every other Cisco is a "pencil-pusher" (Vibe and Reverb being the exceptions), it never occurs to the E19PD to see if there was a Cisco from their Earth, especially after Cisco and Breacher "see" Cisco killing Gypsy/Cynthia. (Gypthia?) Well, anything to get a Danny Trejo character to a murder frenzy.

Meanwhile, Joe and Nash bond during a cave-in, and we're reminded that Joe is basically the heart of this series. I didn't expect his story to end with his neighborhood cooking for him. I would've guessed that would have been the night Nora Allen got killed and her husband went away for that.

CaitFrost & Rosso? Whatever. I will say that Sendhil Ramamurthy (thanks, copy-and-paste!) still has the ability to monologue and say stuff that doesn't sound that stupid coming from his lips. It's a gift. It was D'ohinder I couldn't stand back in the day, not him.

[phoenics]

I reallY enjoyed the Cisco plot.  That was reallY good.  REALLY good.  The onlY issue was the amount of manpain - so much manipain.  But I enjoyed Breacher and Cisco's bond and thought CV killed both roles he got to play.

They coulda kept that useless KF side plot.  

I hate I was right that we wouldn't get to see a Barry/Iris vacation - that it would happen all offscreen.  We didn't even get to see a kiss.  Nothing.

Enjoyed Joe/Nash - mostly Joe.  Jesse Martin carried those scenes.

I almost didn't watch tonight - but it was enjoyable.  I must be becoming numb to my anger about how Iris is being written.  They still have Iris acting like the team and all of that is the priority - and not the love of her life dying.

Maybe I'm just tired.  It feels like no matter how hard we fight as fans for proper representation that isn't just tokenism, racist tropes (SBW) still persist in the writing.

What's the point anymore.

[adora721]

Breacher's entrance was great, literally tearing at the fabric of the E1 universe.

Loved Joe's faith speech; seems the entire episode was about faith, which must be leading somewhere. Kamilla and Cisco seem further along their relationship road than is realistic, but that's what happens when their relationship happens mostly off screen. I still think the Kamilla actress lacks energy and her line delivery is bland.

Why is Cisco letting the villain monologue?? He's seen every movie and how that turns out. Kudos to CV for his acting though.

Edited November 6, 2019 by adora721

[Maverick]

22 minutes ago, adora721 said:

Breacher's entrance was great, literally tearing at the fabric of the E1 universe.

 I'm sure The Monitor will show up and tell him that's why Earth 1 has to fall.

[Jediknight]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

It was better that the last two episodes so that is something. Candice looked beautiful with her curly hair.

There's a time when Candice doesn't look beautiful?

I've said it in the Supergirl forum and I'll say it here, Candice and Melissa Benoist can give seminars on how to rock a dress without even trying.  Because, dayum.

2 hours ago, quarks said:

Geesh, Barry. As if I didn't have enough issues with you, now you confess that you like Jurassic Park more than Empire Strikes Back? I can't with you. I just can't. 

The only movie that should be over Empire is A New Hope.  For me it's basically 1a and 1b, my favorite movie changes between these 2.

Enjoyed the episode.  I would have liked to see Trejo chew some scenery like his last couple of times on the show, but understandable that they couldn't have him do that.  I like that he and Cisco still have a good relationship, and that Gypsy knew Cisco would bring his evil doppelganger to justice.

[Trini]

So they really just killed off Cynthia for Cisco's growth.  *DEEPEST OF SIGHS*

More thoughts later...

[Trini]

Well, let me just get this out of the way now,

I'm not going to say 'no' to seeing more Sendhil; too bad he had the worst scene partner. It was already clear that a Caitlin/Ramsey romance wasnt going to happen, but just in case anyone wasn't sure they had Ramsey say she was 'like a sister' and brought up her dead husband yet again!

3 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

CaitFrost & Rosso? Whatever. I will say that Sendhil Ramamurthy (thanks, copy-and-paste!) still has the ability to monologue and say stuff that doesn't sound that stupid coming from his lips. It's a gift. It was D'ohinder I couldn't stand back in the day, not him.

Sendhil's great, so it was especially annoying how flat Danielle was across from him.

5 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Is Frost being the one to check Joe's vitals at the end a continuity error? Did they just forget which one is Caitlin and which is Frost?

So weird. Why did they even bother with the KF makeup and wig for that last scene??

[Starry]

As far as standalone episodes go, this one was good. Carlos can carry an episode and I liked Kamilla knocking some sense into him because the B.A.R.I. thing wasn't it. A leader needs to think for himself. I also expected Cisco and Kamilla to have more fun scenes. 

The problem is that with a fast approaching Crisis this is not the time for this kind of episodes. Killing a female character to advance a male character's plot is also the definition of fridging. This show loves its misogynistic and racist tropes. Speaking of,

6 hours ago, phoenics said:

They still have Iris acting like the team and all of that is the priority - and not the love of her life dying.

"Barry, are you sure this is the right time to go on vacation?". I wanted to tell Iris to shut up. I hate to feel like this about my favorite character. But Iris is a strong black woman married to her job 😒

5 hours ago, adora721 said:

Loved Joe's faith speech; seems the entire episode was about faith, which must be leading somewhere.

Barry will be saved by an act of God? 😉

I swear I must have zoned out during another Caitlin scene because I didn't realize Frost was the one checking the vitals.

Let's see what Nash's plan entails.

[phoenics]

11 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Is Frost being the one to check Joe's vitals at the end a continuity error? Did they just forget which one is Caitlin and which is Frost?

I said this after last week's episode - that they're gonna try to merge these two and hope we don't notice.  Last week KF was giving advice only Cait would give, and now she's checking vitals like she has a medical degree or knows anything about that.

They've gone back to S3 levels of storytelling where KF knew medical stuff - but that was one KF/Cait were NOT separate personalities.

Unless the writers are trying to say KF has inherited Cait's medical expertise too?

Which contradicts this latest retcon of KF/Cait.  If they're separate personalities and KF has been suppressed all this time (but miraculously has a bajillion friends), then how would she know anything about medical stuff?

I feel like they're just gonna merge Cait and KF and hope we don't complain.

[tricknasty]

Even though Gypsy didn't get much screen time, I will miss her. She didn't deserve to go out like that. Even on the verge of death she was smart to vibe Echo to our earth cause she knew Cisco would figure everything out. 

[Primal Slayer]

After seeing Iris's hair....that not nixed for 5 years? What?How?Why? It'd be such a normal thing if this were TheWB in the 90s. It wasnt anything like say the hairstyles they do on Black Lightning. 

[adora721]

3 hours ago, phoenics said:

I feel like they're just gonna merge Cait and KF and hope we don't complain.

Yep, just like Professor Hulk in "Avengers: Engame." Merge them and then pretend like none of the other seasons happened. 

ETA: Someone on Twitter made me remember that it was strange that KF didn't assert herself to protect Caity when Ramsey was choking her. I wonder why?

Edited November 6, 2019 by adora721

[phoenics]

48 minutes ago, adora721 said:

Yep, just like Professor Hulk in "Avengers: Engame." Merge them and then pretend like none of the other seasons happened. 

ETA: Someone on Twitter made me remember that it was strange that KF didn't assert herself to protect Caity when Ramsey was choking her. I wonder why?

More than likely plot armor, but if I was writing things more interestingly, I'd write KF as wanting Cait to "die" so she can live as KF full time.

But that would mean making KF evil for real and the show wants Cait+powers too much.

[SevenStars]

1 hour ago, adora721 said:

Yep, just like Professor Hulk in "Avengers: Engame." Merge them and then pretend like none of the other seasons happened. 

2 minutes ago, adora721 said:

Yep, just like Professor Hulk in "Avengers: Engame." Merge them and then pretend like none of the other seasons happened. 

Which doesn't do the character or actress any favor. She lost out on a meaty storyline could have given her a chance to display whatever acting talent she has. 

[SimoneS]

On 11/6/2019 at 2:55 AM, Trini said:

Sendhil's great, so it was especially annoying how flat Danielle was across from him.

Danielle Panabaker is such a horrible actress. I try my best to ignore her and not comment on her, but watching Sendhil's stint on the show wasted in scenes with her makes me want to throw up in my mouth. Sendhil is a good actor and one of the higher profile guest actors The Flash has ever had. I don't know what the hell Eric Wallace is thinking. He should have introduced Sendhil to the canvas through a past relationship with Iris or Cisco. He and Iris could have dated or maybe he went to college with Cisco. Hell, he could have even have had a connection to Barry. Ramsey's mother could have been a colleague of Henry's.

The refusal to let Candice wear her hair with curls should embarrass the hell out of Berlanti, the WB, DC, and The CW. It is like they think that wearing her hair straight somehow makes her less Black. The CW is full of such bullshit with its "open to all" campaign.

Edited November 8, 2019 by SimoneS

[adora721]

4 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

The refusal to let Candice wear her hair with curls should embarrass the hell out of Berlanti, the WB, DC, and The CW. It is like they think that wearing her hair straight somehow makes her less Black. 

And look how short a time we saw her curls on screen.  What is it about Black hair in its natural state that terrifies some people?!

[Brinny]

I thought Carlos Valdes did really well with the episode and I'm not going to complain about a Cisco centric plot where he gets to shine, however, it does seem a little strange that the Crisis is less than two months away and we're spending time fridging Cisco's ex-girlfriend. 

Which brings me to this:

17 hours ago, phoenics said:

I almost didn't watch tonight - but it was enjoyable.  I must be becoming numb to my anger about how Iris is being written.  They still have Iris acting like the team and all of that is the priority - and not the love of her life dying.

OMG. Why is Iris being so nonchalant about Barry dying? It would maybe be understandable if she was just trying to be positive and upbeat for Barry's sake and then we see her secretly being unable to hold it together. But instead, it's literally like they have her just lying down and accepting the fact that her best friend/husband is going to KILL HIMSELF in a few weeks. Like, WHAT?!

I just don't get it. She doesn't even seem mildly bummed. Look, it's not like I want her walking around all mopey and weepy about Barry's impending doom (although, even Joe and Cisco have been allowed a quiet, sobbing breakdown), but she should be showing some type of reaction, no?  I'd even take Iris being in massive denial about the whole thing, causing Joe and Cecile to be concerned about her. I mean, ideally, Iris should be working together with Cisco trying to find a way to save Barry or, I don't know, using Wally's connection to the Legends to see if they can time travel to the future and trying to use that to their advantage (...do the Legends travel to the future? They do, right? Or is it just the past? I still don't watch) or doing something INVESTIGATIVE considering she's a journalist. What she should definitely not be doing is business as usual. So frustrating. 

On the subject of Iris, Candice looked stunning for the brief amount of time she was in this episode and I'm forever jealous of anyone who has natural curls that look like that. 

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

The refusal to let Candice wear her hair with curls should embarrass the hell out of Berlanti, the WB, DC, and The CW. It is like they think that wearing her hair straight somehow makes her less Black. The CW is full of such bullshit with its "open to all" campaign.

It is VERY bizarre. Especially when CP has been fairly vocal about the fact that she had previously asked and was subsequently shot down. No lie, one of my favourite bits of tuning into This Is Us (don't judge me) is seeing how Susan Kelechi Watson's hair is going to look that week. Although, actually, if you think about it, none of the ladies on Flash have varying hairstyles even between themselves. Caitlin, Iris, Nora, Cecile and Kamilla almost always have the same style: parted to the side or down the middle, bit of wave at the ends. I think Cecile had a bun once. And Caitlin used to have bangs. God. How boring. 

18 hours ago, quarks said:

Geesh, Barry. As if I didn't have enough issues with you, now you confess that you like Jurassic Park more than Empire Strikes Back? I can't with you. I just can't. 

I'm with Barry on this one. Nothing against Empire, which is a solid movie, but Jurassic Park is kind of amazing.

(I'll confess that some of my bias for this may be because I was pretty young when I watched all of the Star Wars movies on grainy VHS and it's possible that a lot of thematic stuff went over my head? I do remember being surprised by the Vader twist and owning a lot of ewok toys. I was old enough to see Jurassic Park in theatres though and it was absolutely thrilling/terrifying/other adjectives that start with the letter 't' in a way that it definitely cemented its way into my top movies list.) 

[legaleagle53]

25 minutes ago, Brinny said:

I mean, ideally, Iris should be working together with Cisco trying to find a way to save Barry or, I don't know, using Wally's connection to the Legends to see if they can time travel to the future and trying to use that to their advantage (...do the Legends travel to the future? They do, right? Or is it just the past? I still don't watch)

They do when the mission calls for it. They've been to 2042 and to 3000. And Rip Hunter was from the 22nd Century (as are Ava and the version of Gideon that is aboard the Waverider).

[Trini]

[phoenics]

4 hours ago, Brinny said:

I'm with Barry on this one. Nothing against Empire, which is a solid movie, but Jurassic Park is kind of amazing.

(I'll confess that some of my bias for this may be because I was pretty young when I watched all of the Star Wars movies on grainy VHS and it's possible that a lot of thematic stuff went over my head? I do remember being surprised by the Vader twist and owning a lot of ewok toys. I was old enough to see Jurassic Park in theatres though and it was absolutely thrilling/terrifying/other adjectives that start with the letter 't' in a way that it definitely cemented its way into my top movies list.) 

Barry is wrong about Jurassic Park and here's why:

Slightly off-topic History lesson!!

Jurassic Park as it is wouldn't exist if Star Wars had not been made.  For its time, when Star Wars came out, nothing existed like it ever.  It was first of its kind, spawning all kinds of things in its wake - like Battlestar Galactica (the original).  Imagine if you'd never seen anything with those kinds of effects ever before in a movie or tv show - that was the power and magic of Empire Strikes Back and Star Wars.  And Empire managed to be a sequel that was BETTER than the first movie... that almost never happens.  I can only think of John Wick 2 right now, lol.  Any others?

In tandem with the Star Wars movie and Empire Strikes back, Lucas created Industrial Light & Magic.  Right before Empire Strikes back (and kinda during), decided he could do his own Computer Graphics and added that to ILM, encouraging the growth of at least 3 Computer Graphics disciplines at universities (like UNC, CMU and GaTech).  ILM was basically the daddy of all CGI special effects firms, and literally was Pixar's daddy.  Lucas almost singlehandedly moved the needle on Computer Graphics as a field.

Jurassic Park is still awe inspiring - but without Star Wars coming first - it likely wouldn't exist - the genius to create that kind of CGI would've lagged behind a lot longer.

*climbs down from her computer box*

So that's why Barry is WRONG, lol.

Edited November 7, 2019 by phoenics

[Samwise979]

^^^ Terminator 2!!!

Finally a Wells I really like. Did anyone else get John McLain vibes from that scene of him all sweaty in a white tank?

[adora721]

I loved the entire "Lord of the Rings" trilogy, with each one eclipsing the other. Even Peter Jackson gave credit to George Lucas for pioneering so much of the special effects we take for granted now.

Edited November 7, 2019 by adora721

[tennisgurl]

It was great to give Carlos Valdes a chance to really shine and he did great with his episode focus, and I will never complain about a Cisco centric episode, but...did Gypsy have to die for it? She deserved better than to die off-screen and end up stuffed in the fridge to give Cisco and her dad angst and so that Cisco can apparently learn how to say I Love You to his current girlfriend, like she only existed and died for his development. Which is true now I guess. The whole thing just rubbed me wrong, and it seems like a crappy way to treat a supporting character, even one that has been gone for awhile. I also continue to feel like Cisco giving up his powers was a stupid idea, and seemed to exist just to give him something to do, and so that he couldn't use his powers during Crisis. 

It was nice to see Breacher again, and that his bond with Cisco continues even after all of this mess, and meeting another evil Cisco was fun at least, and he did at least grow a bit more as a possible leader, finally turning off his Barry AI. Which was, as Barry and Iris seemed to think, both cute and creepy.

So Iris and Barry finally get to spend some time together, and of course its almost all off-screen! Come on, cant they give these two some actual scenes together, and have Iris actually deal with the impending death of her husband?!! At least Iris looked amazing and they were awfully cute together in their brief time actually on screen. I cant believe that they have kept keeping Candace from wearing her hair naturally for so long, its just so wrong on so many levels. 

 I continue to like Nash, and he and Joe worked well together, and we got more follow up with Joe trying to deal with what is going to happen to Barry. And Ralph showing up to save them was a really good solution that made sense and was quite in character for Ralph. 

Speaking of, if they really wanted to keep the camera away from Barry and Iris, they could at least give Joe and Ralph some scenes, as they work well together, or maybe let Cynthia get one last scene, or anything but another boring "KF has to learn to let people in" story! Its almost as dull and repetitive as the "Ralph has to learn not to be a dick"stories, but less well acted! I would have killed to see Barry and Iris just snuggling on the beach, or her admitting how she is trying to stay strong for everyone but struggling with losing her husband soon right after she lost her daughter, but NO lets add more boring KF plots instead! And lets make it the exact same damn plot we have done every time this season she gets a plot! I dont even hate KF/Cait like some people do, but her character just eats up so much screen time without every really using it properly! Especially with so much more interesting stuff happening that isnt getting screen time.

[thuganomics85]

It's hard for me to explain why I feel this way, but Barry generally thinking that The Empire Strikes Back is his favorite film, but it actually being Jurassic Park deep down within himself, seems to be in character for him!  To be fair, both are likely going to be; it not already; classics, so it's not like I'll hold it against him.  Now, if he picked any of those franchises sequels, I might be wondering about his mindset....

Glad to see Cisco be front and center again and Carlos Valdes shined as always.  But I am bummed that apparently Cynthia/Gypsy is gone for good.  I guess I can see why they can't use her all that much anymore since Jessica Camacho seems to be popping in a lot of stuff lately (apparently she's playing Pirate Jenny on Watchmen right now!), but it definitely slipped into the overplayed "fridge the (female) love interest to drive the (male) hero" plot that sadly still seems to be a thing.  But I'm glad they had Cisco acknowledge that even though they ended up not working out, she was clearly an important part in how he grew as a person, and that is why he seems to be in a good spot with Kamilla.  I'm also glad (and relieved) that Kamilla never went into jealous territory, and knew that Cynthia had been an important part in Cisco's life, and it would be foolish to think he wouldn't care about her death.

Wish we got more Breacher, but Danny Trejo is always a delight.

Fun seeing Joe and Nash interesting, and getting to see Jesse L. Martin and Tom Cavanagh go toe-to-toe again.

Ralph is back to being awesome, at least!

My prediction about Ramsey/Sendhil Ramamurthy being bounced off the screen for a bit ended up being wrong.  Too bad his one scene was stuck with Caitlin.

Where Grant Gustin and Candice Patton needed for crossover filming at this time?  Seemed weird to have Barry and Iris gone for so long, even though both of them deserve a vacation finally.

So, Nash claims that he has a way to save Barry.  Hmm...

[phoenics]

According to twitter, GG And CP were not filming Crisis during the filming for this episode.

[Trini]

So here are my several problems with how they used Gypsy/Cynthia here:

• I don’t know if it was actually said in the writers room, but I’m sure the thought was “Well, we can’t get the actress back, so she might as well be dead”, …
• ... and then they wrote this plot which is almost a textbook case of the ‘fridging’ trope. She didn’t need to die so that Cisco could learn to be a better person. UGH.
• There are only a few significant characters outside of the regular cast that Cisco has had relationships with, and now yet another one of them is dead. Can we stop murdering people Cisco cares about please??
• There are also so few female superheroines on The Flash in general, why permanently take one out of the universe??
• Using Cynthia’s death to prop Cisco/Kamilla. Look, Kamilla is nice and all and I’m glad Cisco is in a stable relationship, but were were they expecting me to root for the boring in comparison pairing after showing the Cynco highlight reel in the ‘previouslies’? Ha! - no. Cisco/Cynthia is gonna be the superior couple to me. Also saying “Cynthia would have liked Kamilla” ? How would I even know if that’s true, they never let her interact with another female character.

But on to the rest of the episode:

I did really like that this was a showcase for Carlos and Cisco (and a tiny amount of Vibe). We got Pop Culture Nerd Cisco, Smart Cisco, Action Cisco, Adorable Boyfriend Cisco, Sad Cisco, Evil Doppelganger Cisco! Cisco kisses! Cisco gets hugs! Cisco get love, support, and admiration! Cisco’s hair looks glorious!

Side note: so now that I know they can write an episode like this for a supporting character, I expect one for Iris.

Cisco + relationships: I guess it good that Cisco and Kamilla are at the ‘I love you’ stage, and she totally cool with all his STAR Labs and multiverse shenanigans, but we’ve barely seen any build up to that. I did like that she played a significant part in the A-plot. (Again, since I know they can do this with her, I expect it for Iris.)

And I know Breacher respects Cisco, but I don’t know if they really have enough history for him to be calling him ‘son’. But speaking of family, we got an anecdote about Cisco’s mom — only the second mention of her since season 1? Do better with Cisco’s family, show. Also, considering Caitlin is Cisco’s closest friend, it was interesting that she wasn’t connected to Cisco’s A-plot. (But I don’t know where they could have fit her in, though.)

Non-Cisco stuff:
Barry & Iris were adorable in their vacation outfits! I knew beforehand that they weren’t going to be in this episode much, but I did like the scenes they did have. I wished we could have seen some of the vacation, but I’m still glad they got some quality time away from everything before Crisis. Loved the banana callback!

The B.A.R.I. was cute! (And if you read the screen when they show it, it says it’s “The fastest A.I. compiled” — hee!) I know Cisco doesn’t need it, but I hope we see the B.A.R.I. again sometime.

Irrelevant Wells #489 continues to suck up screentime with no actual progress on whatever plot he has. I don’t care about why he doesn’t have faith in people. I don’t care about his plan to save Barry which will probably not work anyway. But at least they gave Joe something to do.

Since Cynthia’s ceremony is “next week”, I’m guessing this means minimal Cisco next episode?

So “faith” was the keyword that was supposed to tie all the plots together, but it didn’t work. None of them were connected at all, which was odd.

[Trini]

This episode didn't really advance any of the overall story arc did it? I don't mind a filler episode, but I thought everything was supposed to be leading to Crisis.

[Twilight Man]

On 11/5/2019 at 9:25 PM, bettername2come said:

I loved the Ralph rescuing Joe thing. I didn't see it coming and it was a very in-character, plot relevant reason that I didn't mind them glossing over. 

I actually DID mind because we missed Ralph mentioning that he now needed to play an incredibly dangerous game of Jenga for the next hour and a half to get Joe out. Perhaps Wells helped him play.   Wells probably "crushed" Jenga back when he was a kid.

On 11/5/2019 at 10:53 PM, Lantern7 said:

We got a computer algorithm that thinks like Barry Allen: B.A.R.I.

 B.A.R.I., what is the answer to ---

Time travel

Damn it, B.A.R.I.

On 11/6/2019 at 8:44 AM, phoenics said:

I feel like they're just gonna merge Cait and KF and hope we don't complain.

We complain about almost everything else, and they don't seem to notice or care.

[bettername2come]

24 minutes ago, Twilight Man said:

B.A.R.I., what is the answer to ---

Time travel

Damn it, B.A.R.I.

I was seriously waiting for that to happen and be what made Cisco go - "Okay, we're gonna not do that."

[CabotCove]

Quote

Breacher's entrance was great, literally tearing at the fabric of the E1 universe.

Anyone know why he is called Breacher?

[Trini]

1 hour ago, CabotCove said:

Anyone know why he is called Breacher?

I think they just picked a name related to his powers. His name isn't from the comics; he's an original character.

[CabotCove]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

I think they just picked a name related to his powers. His name isn't from the comics; he's an original character.

Got it, Thanks. 

You all telling me the curls are not staying? , come on...They got to.

Edited November 8, 2019 by CabotCove

[Trini]

One more BTS photo from Victoria Park:

Apparently, Cisco and Kamilla cosplayed at a Ren Faire(?) at some point.

[slayer2]

On 11/5/2019 at 9:02 PM, shantown said:

Props to Carlos Valdes for the great work tonight, but how sad can we really be about Gypsy when we saw her for all of like ten minutes forever ago?

Also - lots of correct guesses that we’d see Barry and Iris speed away at the top of the episode and speed back just in time for the end. Bummer. 

I don't agree. I loved her and I loved them together. This is a total bullshit move. 

[Kate45]

7 hours ago, slayer2 said:

I don't agree. I loved her and I loved them together. This is a total bullshit move. 

I don't feel like we knew much about Cynthia, but I did love them together. They had amazing chemistry, which is more than what I can say about Cisco and Kamilla. Cynthia was her own person and she challenged Cisco which I loved. 

Something about Cisco and Kamilla isn't working for me, but I can't put my finger on it. Maybe she's just *too* perfect? It wasn't lost on me that Kamilla only served as Cisco's emotional support during this episode and nothing else. I hope we get to know more about her as an individual, which may make them a stronger couple as we get to know them more.  

[Trini]

49 minutes ago, Kate45 said:

Something about Cisco and Kamilla isn't working for me, but I can't put my finger on it. Maybe she's just *too* perfect? It wasn't lost on me that Kamilla only served as Cisco's emotional support during this episode and nothing else. I hope we get to know more about her as an individual, which may make them a stronger couple as we get to know them more.  

Besides the fact that we just haven't seen much of their relationship onscreen, I think that are just very 'safe' - which is is what they are going for because they want something stable and drama-free for Cisco; but they need a spark or something for me to be interested and invested in them.

But yes, they also have dropped the ball with fleshing her out as an individual. I thought we were going to get that with CC Citizen, but, nope.

[immortalfrieza]

On 11/6/2019 at 7:44 AM, phoenics said:

I said this after last week's episode - that they're gonna try to merge these two and hope we don't notice.  Last week KF was giving advice only Cait would give, and now she's checking vitals like she has a medical degree or knows anything about that.

They've gone back to S3 levels of storytelling where KF knew medical stuff - but that was one KF/Cait were NOT separate personalities.

Unless the writers are trying to say KF has inherited Cait's medical expertise too?

Which contradicts this latest retcon of KF/Cait.  If they're separate personalities and KF has been suppressed all this time (but miraculously has a bajillion friends), then how would she know anything about medical stuff?

I feel like they're just gonna merge Cait and KF and hope we don't complain.

It's bizarre. Frost has all of Caitlin's memories, (something they pointed out not too long ago) for all practical purposes she SHOULD have access to all of Caitlin's medical knowledge and the degree that goes with it, but they've ignored it when Frost is out in nearly all the times it should be relevant.

Honestly though? If they do merge the two I hope they have her keep Caitlin's medical knowledge and most of Frost's personality and all her powers, because I find Frost significantly more interesting and entertaining (not to mention useful) than Caitlin has ever been. She has this snark and bluntness to her that Caitlin distinctly lacks personality wise and the powers clearly make her more useful, while giving her Caitlin's medical expertise would give her the only thing Caitlin's been useful ( and lately, not even for that much) for the whole run of the show in the bargain.

On 11/6/2019 at 9:54 PM, tennisgurl said:

It was great to give Carlos Valdes a chance to really shine and he did great with his episode focus, and I will never complain about a Cisco centric episode, but...did Gypsy have to die for it? She deserved better than to die off-screen and end up stuffed in the fridge to give Cisco and her dad angst and so that Cisco can apparently learn how to say I Love You to his current girlfriend, like she only existed and died for his development. Which is true now I guess.

To be fair, Gypsy pretty much always existed for the sake of Cisco's development. She appears to capture Wells, Cisco stopped her, and from that point on she just made very occasional and brief appearances as "Cisco's girlfriend" until they eventually broke up. On screen she didn't have a life outside of Cisco, why should her death be any different. And by "To be fair" I mean there's nothing fair about it at all, but that's fiction for you.