S03.E07: That's a Wrap

[LoveLeigh]

Everyone seems to be coming to a crossroads as everything comes to a head.

original air date: October 21, 2019

 

Well, that was a shock! There is a lot of sadness in this show and in those years in NYC. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by DakotaLavender

[txhorns79]

Poor Lori.  I wish it hadn't ended like that.  It always feels like for any one step these women try to take out of the industry, there is someone waiting to try and push them back in. 

And kudos to the actress who plays Lori, you could really feel her hopelessness throughout the episode from the boarded up childhood home to the end. 

[Surrealist]

34 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Poor Lori.  I wish it hadn't ended like that.  It always feels like for any one step these women try to take out of the industry, there is someone waiting to try and push them back in. 

And kudos to the actress who plays Lori, you could really feel her hopelessness throughout the episode from the boarded up childhood home to the end. 

I was really hoping that Lori might be one of the few who would have a happy ending. 

[peridot]

Poor Lori and Mike.  I hated that Lori kept drifting to the bottom, and couldn't escape her situation.  I was afraid that that she would max out Eileen's credit card, but glad she didn't.

What is Eileen thinking, stepping back in front of the camera? I don't think Mr. Nice and Understanding will be calm about that. Is she afraid she'll end up like her friend in a gilded cage? 

Bobby's son is a piece of shit.

[MCMLXXVII]

I predicted a Shauna Grant (or Savannah for us ‘90s folks) type ending for Lori, but was sad to see it. It seems the two porn star extremes are women who really embrace their persona and become sex-positive legends (Candy), and those who become trapped by it (Lori). The “After Porn Ends” documentaries are pretty awesome to see where people end up.

[DiabLOL]

Am I the only one who always found Eileen bto be so disappointingly cold and spectacularly unhelpful to poor doomed Lori? Even before her new career and rich boyfriend she was doing better than her. More stable, had her own place, no pimp to rip her off and abuse her etc. Sure she also had no pimp to protect her in some very dangerous situations as we saw and yes her family was troubled but she still had family. She's also had very significant support from Harvey. Lori has had nobody and Eileen knew this. Lori came to her before and Eileen was just not there for her. Why didn't she let her stay the night after their disturbing conversation? 

Maybe it's Lori's drug use? Maybe Eileen didn't want to get drawn down into that? I don't know maybe I'm being too idealistic but in so many situations it really just takes one person to give a shit, to know that they can indeed "afford" to help and that ultimately most people are redeemable and just need a boost.

This episode really bummed me out. Lori wasn't worthless she could have had so much more. She was surrounded by shitty shitty people from beginning to end.

Edited October 22, 2019 by DiabLOL

[Armchair Critic]

I don't remember Eileen actually being friends with any other women. Maybe Eileen learned to keep her distance emotionally from people and that's why she didn't reach out to Lori. Unfortunately I have been waiting for Lori's death the last few episodes, I just had that feeling it was coming. What did surprise me is that she died by her own hand.

The gun I was worried about was the one Vincent hid, I was worried it was going to go off accidentally when Abby reached up there. I never really warmed up to her character but I am glad Abby left Vincent, seems like she just was spinning her wheels with him.

Bobby's son is an asshole chip off the old block.

[txhorns79]

5 hours ago, DiabLOL said:

Maybe it's Lori's drug use? Maybe Eileen didn't want to get drawn down into that? I don't know maybe I'm being too idealistic but in so many situations it really just takes one person to give a shit, to know that they can indeed "afford" to help and that ultimately most people are redeemable and just need a boost.

I think it goes back to the conversation between Eileen and the anti-porn women.  Eileen is extremely self-sufficient, and went through some pretty bleak situations without any real support.  I think in being that way, she's closed herself off a lot to other people's situations and suffering.  Or even going back to the first season, Eileen seemed to care about Ruby.  Perhaps her sudden and pointless death left Eileen with the idea that most of these women were beyond her help, and it was better not to try, than to get involved and leave herself at risk to be hurt or disappointed.  

[Traveller519]

Lori's end was so sudden it caught me off guard, but well done. She's convinced herself things are finally going well and she's her own person, until she realizes she's back in the same spiral. All that money she had "earned" and none of it belonged to her.

Was Sarah her real name? Or was that her trying to "rebrand" herself for her new independent turn?

Abby leaving Vince will really be the best thing for both of them. I have a feeling Vince is back to Brooklyn/Long Island. It's the one place he's truly happy

[EtheltoTillie]

Who was the guy hiding in the cabin?  Why was he hiding?  Some of those mob related plot threads have not been clear to me. I haven’t felt invested  enough to pay full attention. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by GussieK

[arachne]

The recap I read last night says Lori's real name was Sarah. Tragic death though it was, I thought a nice touch was her pulling out her coke, then changing her mind and putting it back. Next thing to come out was the gun.

No sign of Paul this week. I hope we get to see him one more time. 

[AgentRXS]

3 hours ago, GussieK said:

Who was the guy hiding in the cabin?  Why was he hiding?

That was Mike, Vince's right hand man. He is dying of AIDs-related pneumonia. I am presuming he went there to die in peace.

[EtheltoTillie]

3 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

That was Mike, Vince's right hand man. He is dying of AIDs-related pneumonia, I presuming her went there to die in peace.

Thanks!  I was confused as to whether he was avoiding a mob hit.  

[chick binewski]

10 hours ago, DiabLOL said:

Am I the only one who always found Eileen bto be so disappointingly cold and spectacularly unhelpful to poor doomed Lori? Even before her new career and rich boyfriend she was doing better than her. More stable, had her own place, no pimp to rip her off and abuse her etc. Sure she also had no pimp to protect her in some very dangerous situations as we saw and yes her family was troubled but she still had family. She's also had very significant support from Harvey. Lori has had nobody and Eileen knew this. Lori came to her before and Eileen was just not there for her. Why didn't she let her stay the night after their disturbing conversation? 

4 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think it goes back to the conversation between Eileen and the anti-porn women.  Eileen is extremely self-sufficient, and went through some pretty bleak situations without any real support.  I think in being that way, she's closed herself off a lot to other people's situations and suffering.  Or even going back to the first season, Eileen seemed to care about Ruby.  Perhaps her sudden and pointless death left Eileen with the idea that most of these women were beyond her help, and it was better not to try, than to get involved and leave herself at risk to be hurt or disappointed.  

I think Eileen has always looked out for Eileen/Candy. She exhibits warmth when the situation requires it. Whatever the circumstances, she left her child with parents with whom she had enormous problems. After Ruby was murdered, there was Candy directing women having sex for hire & wearing Ruby's coat. When Lori was first apprehensive about appearing in front of the camera, Candy was there to complement and in a fashion seduce her. Telling a destitute porn star who feels like nothing that 'Lori Madison is money' may not be the way to go. But Eileen wanted her financing. 

Granted, I guess I have an anti-porn bias here. But I find both Eileen & Abby's pov incredibly frustrating. That Emily Meade took action to have an "intimacy coordinator" brought on set and that Franco directed two episodes this season despite pushback regarding accusations and lawsuits make me wonder exactly where the show is coming from.

[Joimiaroxeu]

The former porn actress in the Chanel suit Eileen met with. Was she representing an actual real life person and if so, who?

"Titsun." Learn something new everyday. Something vile but still new to me in this case.

Eileen really did Lori a solid--especially with the credit card-- but she was acting awfully nonchalant about it. Was she concerned Lori would demand a bigger paycheck if she knew how much Eileen needed her? Oh well, Eileen's coolness worked against her in this case.

Lori. Guess the notion of returning to porn was a fate worse than death for her.

[Moxie Cat]

15 hours ago, Surrealist said:

I was really hoping that Lori might be one of the few who would have a happy ending.

Me too, but I was thinking last night, the hookers/porn actresses who have been able to get out are those who establish genuine connections: Eileen with Harvey (and her mom), Melissa and her roommate (plus her family is not out of reach), Loretta (working at the bar with Abby, new guy), Darlene (school and the S2 boyfriend), and even Ashley with her "cause co-workers" in season 2. 

But Lori never had anyone on this show who genuinely connected with her. And as much as Irene and later Abby and Loretta tried, they could never reach Shay.

Question: did we ever see Barbara again after she went to jail in season 1? I can't remember if she turned up again in season 2 or not.

[LydiaE]

Have I missed an appearance from Larry Brown? Has his fate been mentioned?

[EtheltoTillie]

Possible unpopular opinion here.  I don't think Maggie Gyllenhall is such a great actress.  She is touted as one, particularly for this series.  The actress who played Lori was much better IMO.  Maggie Gyllenhall seems mannered and fake, as if you can see the acting.  Her New York accent is not accurate. 

The Candy/Eileen character has been written as a symbol of something and sometimes seems not to be a real person. 

[revbfc]

This ending feels very incomplete.   It’s almost as though they had one more episode to go in the season, but we’ll never get to see it.

[suzyq8017]

1 hour ago, revbfc said:

This ending feels very incomplete.   It’s almost as though they had one more episode to go in the season, but we’ll never get to see it.

There is one more episode. 

[revbfc]

6 minutes ago, suzyq8017 said:

There is one more episode. 

I guess I was right then.

[sadie]

Wow! Poor Lori. She pulled that gun out so fast I didn’t even have time to look away. The fact that she didn't hesitate one second seemed especially tragic to me.

Eileen doesn’t read cold to me, I think it’s more she’s very strong and pragmatic and maybe assumes others are too. She misread where Lori was or I’m convinced she would have done more. 
 

I love this show, I wish more people were watching it. I try to explain it to people and they just look at me like I’m crazy. I’ll be sad once it’s done.

[chick binewski]

4 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Me too, but I was thinking last night, the hookers/porn actresses who have been able to get out are those who establish genuine connections: Eileen with Harvey (and her mom), Melissa and her roommate (plus her family is not out of reach), Loretta (working at the bar with Abby, new guy), Darlene (school and the S2 boyfriend), and even Ashley with her "cause co-workers" in season 2. 

But Lori never had anyone on this show who genuinely connected with her. And as much as Irene and later Abby and Loretta tried, they could never reach Shay.

Question: did we ever see Barbara again after she went to jail in season 1? I can't remember if she turned up again in season 2 or not.

Barbara comes back for S2 - I think Larry fronts that he had to stay away from her when she was in prison, then is shamed into handing over his cash to her.

Didn't Melissa also have a relationship with Barbara? If am I melding Shay with Barbara someone please correct me!

3 hours ago, GussieK said:

Possible unpopular opinion here.  I don't think Maggie Gyllenhall is such a great actress.  She is touted as one, particularly for this series.  The actress who played Lori was much better IMO.  Maggie Gyllenhall seems mannered and fake, as if you can see the acting.  Her New York accent is not accurate. 

The Candy/Eileen character has been written as a symbol of something and sometimes seems not to be a real person. 

I think Gyllenhaal has had some fantastic moments in the series but yes, I find her character exactly as you describe - a woman there to represent a particular viewpoint; if you look at her character in full and take her experiences into account she doesn't make a lot of sense. For me Emly Meade has been the standout - as much as I didn't understand her character's actions, her self-destruction rang true and the actress did a great job without a lot of melodrama.  

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, sadie said:

Eileen doesn’t read cold to me, I think it’s more she’s very strong and pragmatic and maybe assumes others are too. She misread where Lori was or I’m convinced she would have done more. 

I don't think Eileen is cold, I just think she's very focused on what she needs and everyone else is second.  And I don't say that as a shot against her.  I just mean she lives a life where she looks out for herself.

I would say that even though Eileen has known Lori a long time, she likely wouldn't have recognized that Lori was spiraling and had no reason to think Lori was suicidal.  If anything, she probably thinks she saved Lori by giving her a job and helping her get a place to stay.  

I also kind of wondered exactly how Abby managed to move out of that apartment in what seemed like only a few hours.    

[Deanie87]

Ugh what a gut punch.  I agree that the fact that Lori did it so fast, with no hesitation and no desire to be high just makes it all the more sad.

I really don't care about Vincent or Abby or the other guy and his son. I wanted to see Paul and I wanted to see some follow up on Harvey and Maggie.  It seems like some storylines got dragged out and some just disappeared.

[MCMLXXVII]

3 hours ago, revbfc said:

I guess I was right then.

Yup, pretty much all HBO dramas have the BIG SCENES in the penultimate episode, then the finale is tying up loose ends.

[AgentRXS]

7 hours ago, LydiaE said:

Have I missed an appearance from Larry Brown? Has his fate been mentioned?

Nope. Really disappointed we haven't got so much of a mention of him yet. Maybe he will pop up in the finale.

[Pop Tart]

53 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

I really don't care about Vincent or Abby or the other guy and his son. I wanted to see Paul and I wanted to see some follow up on Harvey and Maggie.  It seems like some storylines got dragged out and some just disappeared.

I’m interested enough to want to know how Vincent ends up, Abby not so much. Hers was a character I’ve never connected with. 

The other storyline I think they could have excised entirely from the series is most anything to do with the police. They just never developed it enough and at this point I have less then no interest when they’re on screen. I have more interest in the mob story and that’s not something I’d ever usually say.

Lori’s end has been seeming pretty inevitable for most of the season, but still it was a shock. With that said it was an incredibly well-written and acted set of scenes.

[tennisgurl]

I suspected what was going to happen, but god that was a punch in the gut. It happened so fast and she just did it with no hesitation. Poor poor Lori, she really had no one looking out for her, and it was so awful seeing her go from one bad situation to the next, and every time things seemed to get better, things got worse. I so hoped that she would get out of the hole, but it was not meant to be. 

I dont think that Eileen is cold exactly, just very pragmatic and struggles with seeing what is going on with other people beyond what is on the surface. Lori wasnt outwardly suicidal, so she didnt pick up on it, but you could just hear her despair in between the lines. It is certainly sad that the best relationship she seems to have is with Eileen, who still reacts to her calling for help with "great, now she can be in my movie and I can get funding!" which I dont blame her for, and from her perspective she was getting her a good job, but it just hit Lori even harder that everyone just wants to use her and only want her for one thing and thats all she has to give the world, even if its not true. Maybe Eileen will start working to help porn stars or former porn stars after this, she has been struggling with what happens to porn stars that dont end up like her since she spoke with the feminist group. 

Mike looks like death warmed over, poor guy. 

I dont really care about if Abbey and Vincent end up together, but I am kind of interested if we end with Abbey still in her bar, and Vincent working full time for the mob or goes the way of Frankie. 

Next week I hope that we see Larry, I've missed him this season. Maybe we`ll see him acting on stage or on TV? Lots to wrap up (pun intended) next week with so many plots and characters still hanging. Maybe 

[Mommaj]

I think the police subplot would have been better if Gilliard were a better actor. He just makes me cringe every time he's on the screen. He seems like he's doing his first reading of the script with every line. I appreciate the producers' loyalty in casting alumni of The Wire, but good grief, he's just dreadful as Alston. I don't recall his being bad as D'Angelo Barksdale, so maybe it's just not the right part for him, or the writing is poor, or he's being poorly directed, but his scenes lack authenticity and are by far the weakest part of the show.

[mytmo]

I was so hoping Lori would be a music video vixen and end up marrying a musician.  Her demise was so tragic but so expected.  The actress played the hell out of that role and hope she gets recognized.  Eileen is damaged and does not have the mental or emotional capability to help someone else.  Despite her success she is still living hand to mouth and has to hustle or die.  She turned out to be like a character in her movie using a girl as a commodity .  Please I hope we get to see what happened to Larry Brown.  I kinda hoped he was the pimp when Lori was on the street in New York but glad it was not.  Abby's story is done (not that there really was one) and we don't need to see her in the finale.  I would also like to see Paul's story and hopefully the demise of Bobby's parlors and his son being arrested for securities fraud.

[Direwolf]

23 hours ago, arachne said:

No sign of Paul this week. I hope we get to see him one more time. 

He is seen in the trailer for the final episode. 

[Surrealist]

1 hour ago, Direwolf said:

He is seen in the trailer for the final episode. 

I'm relatively sure he was in this week's episode: the neighborhood meeting scene with Abby. I thought the camera showed a shot of his head from behind, but perhaps I'm imagining that. 

[Moxie Cat]

On 10/22/2019 at 10:53 PM, Pop Tart said:

The other storyline I think they could have excised entirely from the series is most anything to do with the police. They just never developed it enough and at this point I have less then no interest when they’re on screen.

For me, that storyline is so scattershot. I always get the feeling that people who are familiar with the development/changes that happened in NY and midtown in the '70s-'90s understand it. But if you only have a vague understanding of what happened (like me), you're kind of lost. (I only got the references to the Marriott because I got to stay there in high school once.) A missed opportunity, especially since one major theme of the show was portraying how "the Deuce" changed over these years.

On 10/22/2019 at 7:28 PM, chick binewski said:

Didn't Melissa also have a relationship with Barbara? If am I melding Shay with Barbara someone please correct me!

Yes, in season 1. They ran a scam where they hooked up together and stole money from johns. I don't remember if they were genuinely sexually involved or if it was just for the scam, though.

On 10/22/2019 at 11:04 PM, tennisgurl said:

Next week I hope that we see Larry, I've missed him this season.

Biggest outstanding plot thread, if we don't. On par with never revisiting Sal Romano in later seasons of Mad Men.

It's been interesting to see how the hookers have evolved since season 1. Most of them have been able to move on with their lives, even imperfectly. The "most successful" (Lori) came to one of the worst ends. Conversely, most of the pimps have either been murdered or faded away. I would like to see Larry back as a single positive example, even if he's just acting in crappy movies.

On 10/22/2019 at 6:28 PM, sadie said:

I love this show, I wish more people were watching it. I try to explain it to people and they just look at me like I’m crazy. I’ll be sad once it’s done.

Totally with you! I can't tear myself away from the TV when a new episode of the Deuce is on. And it's really hard to explain to people why I'm so glued to a show about porn and hookers.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Moxie Cat

[sd dude]

4 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Conversely, most of the johns have either been murdered or faded away.

Did you mean most of the pimps?

[Moxie Cat]

19 hours ago, sd dude said:

Did you mean most of the pimps?

Yep! Thanks, fixed.

[ChicksDigScars]

Regarding Maggie Gyllenhaal's NY accent...she was born and raised in NYC. Seems like it's her natural accent (or lack thereof) being used. 

I hope next year is finally the year that someone from The Deuce is recognized by the awards. My guess is that if it's anyone, it will be Meade and Gyllenhaal. 

I still remember going back to my grandmother's in Poughkeepsie during the summer, and taking the train to NYC to see some Broadway shows, and my uncle warning us NOT to wander down the wrong street and end up strolling down 42nd Street.  I can still remember the grittiness of the late 70's Times Square. And the smell. I had moved to the Midwest as a child and was basically raised with Midwestern naivete.

Me:  "Why...what's down there?"

Uncle Lenny: "Never mind. Just stay the fuck away from 42nd Street."

Italian family. We sprinkle the F Bomb like verbal Parmesan Cheese. 

[kicotan]

On 10/25/2019 at 8:06 AM, ChicksDigScars said:

Regarding Maggie Gyllenhaal's NY accent...she was born and raised in NYC. Seems like it's her natural accent (or lack thereof) being used. 

She may have been born there but grew up in Los Angeles, attending the Frou-Frou Harvard-Westlake School.  I’m sure whatever beginnings of a NY accent she had as a wee babe was thoroughly removed by adulthood/Hollywood.

On 10/23/2019 at 11:24 AM, Moxie Cat said:

I always get the feeling that people who are familiar with the development/changes that happened in NY and midtown in the '70s-'90s understand

Mr. Kicotan frequented that area often mid-sixties to nineties.  He grew up and attended college within brief train rides.  We watch it together and he is my go to when I don’t understand something...also, being 1/2 Sicilian and 1/2 Napolitan, he translates the goombah-speak for me too. 😂

Edited October 26, 2019 by kicotan
Incomplete

[DoctorAtomic]

On 10/22/2019 at 12:04 AM, DiabLOL said:

Why didn't she let her stay the night after their disturbing conversation? 

Yeah, I totally didn't get that. I mean, I'm not calling OOC on Eileen. She was fixated on getting the money for the movie. I haven't read the comments to the point where I quoted this, but I guess Eileen has become the pimps she hated.

I like Abby, but I find her hypocritical. She is genuinely good at managing the bar, and I don't begrudge her that. She knows what reality is though. Drawing the line at Vincent having the gun seems a bit much. I mean, if he wanted to, he could tell Tommy to pull the protection on the Hi-Hat. On the other hand, I know people like her in real life. I get the sense she's pissed off at life because life passed her by. I think she thinks she could have been more but she never did. So she leaves her and Vincent's place. Where she going to go? Her gf dumped her. The only source of income is the bar. She's not moving home.

I had a tough time dealing with Mike, 'winter ain't going to touch me.' By now, I know these guys aren't going to give you much in the way of happy endings. Still.

I do feel vindicated from last episode where I commented that Rudy's "I gave permission" for Vincent killing off the made guy's son made it even that Rudy got done to put Vincent in the clear.

I liked Vincent asking if he'd be able to retire. No, you won't. Tommy knows you can open clubs and make money. He was fairly firm to me in telling Vincent that he'd find him another place, but Vincent's either going to be earning, or he's going to get got if he thinks he can retire. And what's he going to do otherwise? Run for office? It's not like he's banking a 401k. Unless they make him a made man at the end of the show. Which would kind of be cool.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

So, I'm parceling out these final few episodes to myself like the last bits of Christmas candy (or choose your own metaphor) ... I love this show so much and will feel bereft when there are no new (to me) episodes ...

Heading out of town for the weekend, so will watch the FINAL episode probably Sunday night but for now a few thoughts on the penultimate (as someone else aptly noted, often the biggest WOW moments come and then everything is wrapped up in the final one). 

I wrote RIP too soon on Big Mike (last week's recap) because I thought he was literally walking off to die and we wouldn't see him again. I am glad (weird word) that we had such a Mike-centric episode this week even though he's still dying. He's been one of my very favorite characters (will go so far as to say an all-time favorite David Simon character) and the actor has done a magnificent job with him. Also interesting to note that he's only 6-1 so not SO big. (I see he's going to be co-starring on the live-action series of Cowboy Bebop). 

I've also been wondering about the mysterious absence of Larry Brown, especially after his storyline in S2 ... I haven't googled it because I was afraid of being spoiled, but wonder if it had anything to do with Gbenga Akinnagbe's Broadway stint in To Kill A Mockingbird and conflict with shooting dates? Like many of you, I'm holding out hope that there will be a quick subtle shot of someone watching TV in the finale and we'll see Officer Larry Brown in his TV series. We did get that little wrap-up of Darlene/Donna, so I don't think it's out of the question. 

What is the name of the character who is dying of AIDS that has become Melissa's family? I love him and I love them ... they may be the best "couple" on this show. 

SO MUCH DYING OF AIDS ON THIS EPISODE ... and that's without seeing Paul. Big Mike, Melissa's friend, Gene Goldman ... I'm sure I'm leaving others out. 

I'd be happy not seeing Bobby's son anymore. I understand that the offspring of a Gandolfini is a sacred cow but the actor looks ... well, weird. Those triangular eyes. Like he was dropped on his head as a baby or something. Sorry if that sounds cold. Nothing salvageable about that character which is unusual in this series (okay, maybe his dad's not really salvageable either but he's just so dumb, not awful).

I also hope we get one more glimpse of Leon (though I still wonder why he is made to look SOOOOOO tall ... Anwan Glover is listed at 6-6 but when we see Leon he always looks like he's about 6-10 and we never actually see his whole body ... either he's behind the counter or blocked by a table) ... also, did I notice the last time they showed Leon's that he'd really fixed it up in the time jump? Just so glad he's doing well. He may be the kindest character on that show. He needs a spinoff. 

[DangerousMinds]

7 hours ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

So, I'm parceling out these final few episodes to myself like the last bits of Christmas candy (or choose your own metaphor) ... I love this show so much and will feel bereft when there are no new (to me) episodes ...

Heading out of town for the weekend, so will watch the FINAL episode probably Sunday night but for now a few thoughts on the penultimate (as someone else aptly noted, often the biggest WOW moments come and then everything is wrapped up in the final one). 

I wrote RIP too soon on Big Mike (last week's recap) because I thought he was literally walking off to die and we wouldn't see him again. I am glad (weird word) that we had such a Mike-centric episode this week even though he's still dying. He's been one of my very favorite characters (will go so far as to say an all-time favorite David Simon character) and the actor has done a magnificent job with him. Also interesting to note that he's only 6-1 so not SO big. (I see he's going to be co-starring on the live-action series of Cowboy Bebop). 

I've also been wondering about the mysterious absence of Larry Brown, especially after his storyline in S2 ... I haven't googled it because I was afraid of being spoiled, but wonder if it had anything to do with Gbenga Akinnagbe's Broadway stint in To Kill A Mockingbird and conflict with shooting dates? Like many of you, I'm holding out hope that there will be a quick subtle shot of someone watching TV in the finale and we'll see Officer Larry Brown in his TV series. We did get that little wrap-up of Darlene/Donna, so I don't think it's out of the question. 

What is the name of the character who is dying of AIDS that has become Melissa's family? I love him and I love them ... they may be the best "couple" on this show. 

SO MUCH DYING OF AIDS ON THIS EPISODE ... and that's without seeing Paul. Big Mike, Melissa's friend, Gene Goldman ... I'm sure I'm leaving others out. 

I'd be happy not seeing Bobby's son anymore. I understand that the offspring of a Gandolfini is a sacred cow but the actor looks ... well, weird. Those triangular eyes. Like he was dropped on his head as a baby or something. Sorry if that sounds cold. Nothing salvageable about that character which is unusual in this series (okay, maybe his dad's not really salvageable either but he's just so dumb, not awful).

I also hope we get one more glimpse of Leon (though I still wonder why he is made to look SOOOOOO tall ... Anwan Glover is listed at 6-6 but when we see Leon he always looks like he's about 6-10 and we never actually see his whole body ... either he's behind the counter or blocked by a table) ... also, did I notice the last time they showed Leon's that he'd really fixed it up in the time jump? Just so glad he's doing well. He may be the kindest character on that show. He needs a spinoff. 

I don’t think Gene Goldman had AIDS.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

19 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I don’t think Gene Goldman had AIDS.

My bad ... I still haven't watched the finale (will do tomorrow night) and I really thought he did, between the scenes of him in the bathhouses and how truly ill he looked in the scene where he's apologizing to his wife. 

Maybe he looked like death warmed over because he had to come out of the closet to her but I thought it was because he knew he had AIDS. 

[Craigcodybazhate]

This show was one of the best shows on HBO. It was such a hard show very deep. Mike was such a great character. Something about David Simon and his mikes on these shows lol. 
 

Mike was so loyal and always there for everybody. It just shows one sexual encounter led to AIDS. I think what they were showing was that was AIDS back then. It didn’t have to be in a gay bath house. MIKE just had a encounter with a trans girl. Am I right or maybe I saw it another way. 
 

But yeah seeing his demise that was tough people didn’t know back then. 
 

I think just the overall world of New York in the 70s was a character. Especially for people who  weren’t from New York. 
 

poor Lori didn’t have the support. She had Mental health and really didn’t know how to deal with it. We saw a porn star that looked like a star but she was being used by everyone the pimp that abused her the porn producer that kept putting her in movies making her make more movies not paying her then Ellie her supposed friend using her to make more porn so she can get the funding when Lori didn’t need to be anywhere near that scene. Like somebody going back to a drug den who’s on drugs. She needed to be away from that. Ellie didn’t pick up on that because she had her own goals and ambition. It was selfish. Lori needed Ellie. 
 

Being back in that triggered her Cocaine use which was used to numb the pain of her sexual porn scenes which bought back the pumping and abuse. This is a physiological roller coaster that made Lori snap. She was in a maze and none of her friends pulled her out to give her freedom. 
 

she still couldn’t get that freedom. Which was interesting is now it was a woman pimping her back in the industry so she can get some money. 
 

as fucked up as this sounds they were writing that she is that. That’s her a porn star who is used as a sex clutch. That sucks she’s not allowed to be a boss like Ellie. It’s dog eat dog. Ellie was a hooker and in porn but she isn’t going back to that so if she’s gotta use Lori to get that funding she will. Poor Lori. It didn’t have to be that but when she came back to New York I think just an opinion she thought that is just going to be porn. She felt like it was no way out. 
 

Ellie is what she is a social climber a hustler yes she’s about some feminism but more than that she’s about capitalism. She’s trying to get paid. 
 

it’s a show that won’t get a lot of recognition but one of the best written shows I’ve seen on HBO. 
 

Vince what a character. Whenever he’s on the screen he just owns the dialogue. Great acting. He is that character and he brings the viewer into the character. 

[Craigcodybazhate]

Thank you chenoa.