S02.E10: This is Not for Tears

[sistermagpie]

10 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I mean, this is the Roman who got his tooth knocked out by his father and then turned around and said it was all okay and didn’t call Logan out when Logan said he wasn’t sure if he’d even made contact. Roman standing up to Logan was a HUGE deal.

It seems like Roman usually feels okay speaking up in front of his father--that's why it's so abusive when Logan sometimes attacks him for it. Like in this situation he probably didn't feel like there was anything dangerous in telling his father that he thought these guys were a joke if that's what he thought. It wasn't something that would make Logan feel threatened personally and plus I think Roman, like all the kids, really do feel protective of the family and Logan a lot of the time.

[Eyes High]

Jeremy Strong confirmed that the 2x10 episode title comes from a John Berryman poem, "Dream Song 29," which also contains the "Nobody is ever missing" title for 1x10:

Quote

There sat down, once, a thing on Henry’s heart   
só heavy, if he had a hundred years
& more, & weeping, sleepless, in all them time   
Henry could not make good.
Starts again always in Henry’s ears
the little cough somewhere, an odour, a chime.

And there is another thing he has in mind   
like a grave Sienese face a thousand years
would fail to blur the still profiled reproach of. Ghastly,   
with open eyes, he attends, blind.
All the bells say: too late. This is not for tears;   
thinking.

But never did Henry, as he thought he did,
end anyone and hacks her body up
and hide the pieces, where they may be found.
He knows: he went over everyone, & nobody’s missing.   
Often he reckons, in the dawn, them up.
Nobody is ever missing.

[Athena5217]

18 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I'd also like the acknowledge the "tom and Gerri" reference to the cartoon.  

Roman has always seemed savvy with people.  He can read people pretty well, but he often weaponizes that ability with people who he considers beneath him. 

His ability to read the situation was interesting and surprising.  I guess he was that kid in school who was goofing off in class but somehow aced the exam (insert joke about being on the crew team here)

Roman excels at understanding people’s motivations and how to manipulate them emotionally. Sometimes abused children develop these skills as a survival mechanism so it is consistent with his character development.

On the other hand, we’ve seen lots of proof that Roman doesn’t understand things most people with his education do, like how rockets work, and he doesn’t listen well when others explain this to him. However, he seems to listen to Gerri because he understands the benefits to himself.

I think it’s kind of hilarious that they took a cruise to discuss the cruise ship scandal. I know there are good reasons for this like a lack of cell phone reception and the inability to leave easily, but it’s hr kind of thing late night talk shows would have lots of jokes about if it were found out. 

Logan is truly evil because he actually believes he did nothing wrong with the cruise ship situation when he told Kendall that. His argument was he was not at fault because he did not participate in harassing and assaulting women while being completely oblivious to the idea that he is at fault because it’s HIS company. He invents his own reality in which he is blameless over and over again. I guess that’s how he lives with himself.

[BrooklynRat]

14 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

Jock Ewing said to JR that you have to leave a man with his dignity, you can't humiliate because he won't have anything to lose when he strikes back.  Logan Roy just learned that lesson the hard way. 

Ha! Showing your age a bit there, but I love it and I’m right there with you!

15 hours ago, Dminches said:

Logan had a look on his face which said “well, son, I guess you are a killer after all.”  He almost looked proud of him.

They kept the camera on Logan’s face so long, I was waiting for a little smirk to prove this was the plan all along but since his expression never changed, while I agree it was a look of pride, I don’t think it was Logan’s master plan. 

14 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

Wow!

I really think that Kendall was ready to be the one to fall on his sword, until his dad dismissed the guy who was killed as “no person involved”. Kendall said he deserved to take the blame because of the boy. And it was Logan’s reaction to that with a dismissive “rpi”.

I think it started earlier: I feel like maybe sending Naomi away so unceremoniously, having to grovel with Stewy yet again, and then being denied his Dad’s approved for the gazillionth time might have just been too much and he finally cracked. That, or this has been an excellent season-long-con (on Ken’s part). 

14 hours ago, northboundtrain said:

Kendall's the only one of his children that Logan seems to have contempt for. Logan doesn't like him, respect him, or "love" him (as he probably tells himself he "loves" the others), and Kendall's finally seemed to really, really realize it.

Actually, in the previous finale, I actually got the tiny feeling Logan did in fact care for him when he thought his son’s life would be ruined over the waiter’s death. Even though he exploited it for his own uses, I did get the feeling it was also done out of concern for him. 

13 hours ago, Bama said:

So, there was a very obvious cut during Kendall’s statement to a manila envelope in Greg’s hands when Kendall said “I’ve got documents that prove what Logan knew”.

Did Greg pick a side and give his Pants Papers to Kendall?

Actually, pretty early on, Ken acknowledges Greg’s prowess in keeping the copies (though I don’t think he knows the details—just that Greg has made some shrewd move. I think it was in season 1 maybe). I think that’s at least somewhat related to why he gets Greg the snazzy apartment in his building. Their connection has been cultivating over quite some time. 

13 hours ago, SHD said:

Cousin Gregory is becoming a sleeping giant. I wonder if he would’ve helped if anyone else had been the designated fall guy.

He and Ken have been bonding over time: watching over Ken, confiding in him, getting him drugs, being gifted the apartment by Ken, etc. 

Overall, a great finale, great season. And it was the cherry on top to have Tom finally verbalize the fucked-up-ness of Shiv proposing an open relationship on their wedding day. I feel like no lose ends left dangling as a viewer. If only all my shows could be this satisfying. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by BrooklynRat
Clarity

[sistermagpie]

46 minutes ago, BrooklynRat said:

He and Ken have been bonding over time: watching over Ken, confiding in him, getting him drugs, being gifted the apartment by Ken, etc. 

I read a thing where Nicholas Braun was talking about the rap and he said he assumed that it wasn't a surprise to Greg, that Kendall had probably practiced it in front of him so Greg was just cheering him on. I thought of that in this finale.

[ichbin]

I don't wait to wait until next year for the next season!  I wasn't sure what was going to happen, but then at the end realized Kendall's action was actually the only (and best) thing that could happen.  This show!  Writing, casting...excellent!  Still surprised that HBO hasn't promoted it in the same way as shows like The Sopranos or Game of Thrones.  I suspect that is going to change for the coming season.  

[Carolina Girl]

Can someone explain a probably meaningless detail to me.  TWICE I have heard Logan refer to Roman as "Romulus" - is that his actual first name and "Roman" is his nickname - or is the "Romulus" some inside joke I failed to catch when it was explained.

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

Can someone explain a probably meaningless detail to me.  TWICE I have heard Logan refer to Roman as "Romulus" - is that his actual first name and "Roman" is his nickname - or is the "Romulus" some inside joke I failed to catch when it was explained.

His name is Roman and Romulus is a nickname based on the two mythical founders of Rome, Romulus and Remus (allegedly suckled by a She-wolf). The city of Rome is named for Romulus, so that's why the nickname.

[BrooklynRat]

3 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

Can someone explain a probably meaningless detail to me.  TWICE I have heard Logan refer to Roman as "Romulus" - is that his actual first name and "Roman" is his nickname - or is the "Romulus" some inside joke I failed to catch when it was explained.

The city of Rome is named after Romulus. I’m pretty sure his name is just Roman and he’s making a play on the notion of the City of Romulus. 

[preeya]

58 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

His name is Roman and Romulus is a nickname based on the two mythical founders of Rome, Romulus and Remus (allegedly suckled by a She-wolf). The city of Rome is named for Romulus, so that's why the nickname.

Ahh, Romulus & Remus. . . . . brings back memories of high school Latin class. (now I'm showing my age)

[BlackberryJam]

Logan having nicknames for his kids makes the show more realistic to me. I like the fact that they aren’t repeating things like, “This is Gerri, she is our general counsel,” forty-eight times.

At the same time, I feel obligated to admit that I cannot for the life of me recall the name of Roman’s co-owner of the Hearts. I keep thinking of him as not-Stewy.

Edited October 14, 2019 by BlackberryJam
Typo.

[tennisgurl]

I was actually a bit touched that Roman stood up for Geri at the Scapegoat Lunch, and while it might have been partially because he wants her around, I do think they are rather fond of each other, in a rather twisted Freudian kind of way. Everyone sitting around debating who would get thrown into the fire was just so coldly ruthless. I on some level knew that Shiv would throw Tom under the bus, but it was still had to watch when it happened. It was so bad that even Tom finally showed some spine and told Shiv how unhappy he was with her and how crappy she was to him, and of course, Shiv actually was into that. 

Logan's expression was so fascinating when Kendall was crushing him all over television, like he was both horrified and proud of Kendall. Its like that line from Superstore. "I hate you right now as much as I respect you." He was probably thinking that he underestimated Kendall, he really does have that killer instinct that Logan has. Its a bit like when Shiv finally stood up for Tom when he told her off and then had that weird food confrontation with Logan. Like father like daughter. 

[Dminches]

I just watched the final 10 minutes, starting with Shiv telling Kendall that Daddy wants to see him.

I am starting to think that Logan is in on the Kendall announcement at the press conference.  When Roman comes in the room and makes a comment Logan puts his finger up to his mouth to say "shhh."  I have a hard time believing that that would be his reaction if this was a surprise to him.

I could be wrong too!

[BlackberryJam]

2 minutes ago, Dminches said:

I just watched the final 10 minutes, starting with Shiv telling Kendall that Daddy wants to see him.

I am starting to think that Logan is in on the Kendall announcement at the press conference.  When Roman comes in the room and makes a comment Logan puts his finger up to his mouth to say "shhh."  I have a hard time believing that that would be his reaction if this was a surprise to him.

I could be wrong too!

I agree, but then I wonder if I have become like one of the Roy children, believing erroneously that Logan is all powerful.

[Carolina Girl]

57 minutes ago, preeya said:

Ahh, Romulus & Remus. . . . . brings back memories of high school Latin class. (now I'm showing my age)

That makes two of us.  Heck, I don't think they even TEACH Latin at the high school level anymore.

[Dminches]

This is brilliant.  I can't stop watching it. (Hopefully everyone can link to a twitter video).

Succession take-off

Edited October 14, 2019 by Dminches

[haje]

THE ADRENALINE RUSH I FELT ONCE
KENDALL PAUSED AND SAID "BUT..." Give Strong his Emmy for this ep alone. His face when Naomi, rightfully, tells him Logan only loves him broken. To the entire final scene with Logan and that dinner table scene (the look he and Roman share! They probably have the most genuine relationship out of all the siblings) and then the final moments. Whoo boy. Felt like I ran an entire marathon.

Already annoyed by some viewers immediately going the "IT WAS LOGAN'S PLAN ALL ALONG" theorizing route. This idea that some Succession viewers have that Logan is some sort of all-seeing chess master who sees 4 moves ahead of everyone else is baffling to me. He’s an abuser and a bully and that’s how he’s gone about his business. The two times Kendall tried to fuck him over he managed to survive through pure sheer force of nature and also through emotionally manipulating his own child. He thought he could throw Kendall to the wolves and Kendall would take it because Kendall has done so this entire season without any protest, not because he had some sort of ultimate plan to ultimately sacrifice himself by having Kendall do it for him. Him being casually cruel about the car crash isn’t him deliberately needling Kendall to fuck him over on live television, It’s Logan doing what he’s been doing to Kendall this entire show and this entire season: Be casually cruel and emotionally abusive. It’s just this time Kendall didn’t take it lying down. And that final smile is Logan being proud of it. Not because he and Kendall are secretly working together (The fact that this is even a theory is baffling) or because Logan KNEW that was the plan all along. It’s because for the first time in his life one of his kids had the actual guts to blindside him and stab him in the front.

Curious about how the family relationships are going to be handled next season. Kendall is going to habe Greg in his corner but who else? Will another sibling jump ship? A part of me hopes this move doesn't completely destroy Ken and Roman's relationship because I've grown to be especially invested in that dynamic.

[Pop Tart]

4 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

I think it’s kind of hilarious that they took a cruise to discuss the cruise ship scandal. I know there are good reasons for this like a lack of cell phone reception and the inability to leave easily, but it’s hr kind of thing late night talk shows would have lots of jokes about if it were found out. 

I was thinking this too. If there'd been any paparazzi cameras around to see them all arriving by boat or helicopter to that massive, billion-dollar yacht for a Mediterranean cruise all while facing massive scandal for what happened on the cruise ships - not a good look at all. 

On another note I'd been thinking of the way in which Logan suddenly had Kendall get Naomi off the boat. It's not that it didn't make sense, as I thought it was pretty dumb of Kendall to bring her in the first place since they were definitely all there to discuss extremely private matters. At first Logan didn't say anything about her being there and then was suddenly making Kendall send her away because he hadn't had notice she was going to be there.

I was thinking that this might have been one of those micro-moments in which Logan does actually care about Kendall and thought that having her sent away was for Kendall's benefit so that Kendall would not have to face her after he's been told he's the blood sacrifice.

I'm probably attributing more thought to it than Logan would ever do, but it did occur to me it might have been an attempt at ta kindness on his part. Of course it was probably really just more of Logan bringing Kendall low.

[preeya]

26 minutes ago, Dminches said:

This is brilliant.  I can't stop watching it. (Hopefully everyone can link to a twitter video).

Succession take-off

That is fukin hilarious, God Dammit!

Edited October 14, 2019 by preeya

[chick binewski]

5 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Dad: You're not a killer. A killer is what I need.

Kendall: [Becomes a killer]

Everyone: Kendall FTW outfoxes Dad!!

Me: Um...that's not outfoxing. That's Kendall still playing Dad's game.

I think some of us do a lot of fist-pumping during this show bc it has such a great rhythm and terrific moments like Kendall's announcement last night. But yeah, there will never be any real understanding between Logan and his children. As smart as they can sometimes be they never fully accept that they are dad's chess pieces - not players. The writers' room may create something different for 2020 (I can't wait a year!) but I don't believe for a minute that Logan was in on this; I think he simply enjoyed his son being less of a milquetoast based on direction he had provided. 

And Kendall's still the addict/dufus who complains about street coke and discards women based on daddy's vibe. Also, L to the O-G was only two episodes ago. 

3 hours ago, ichbin said:

Still surprised that HBO hasn't promoted it in the same way as shows like The Sopranos or Game of Thrones.  I suspect that is going to change for the coming season.  

I don't know why this show isn't more of a thing. Maybe the themes and tone make it less meme-y and in this day if you don't have a big online fan presence or a product  or comic-con tie-in (I'm guessing I couldn't afford any Roy accessories) why bother? The video @Dminches posted was maybe the first thing I've seen online re the show other than a straight article.

[scrb]

1 hour ago, chick binewski said:

I don't know why this show isn't more of a thing. Maybe the themes and tone make it less meme-y and in this day if you don't have a big online fan presence or a product  or comic-con tie-in (I'm guessing I couldn't afford any Roy accessories) why bother? The video @Dminches posted was maybe the first thing I've seen online re the show other than a straight article.

No whackings, no dragon fire.

The lines are great but no action.

[car54]

I think Tom eating Logan's chicken might be my favorite scene of the whole series.   That bite he took said it all.

[northboundtrain]

3 hours ago, Dminches said:

I am starting to think that Logan is in on the Kendall announcement at the press conference.  When Roman comes in the room and makes a comment Logan puts his finger up to his mouth to say "shhh."  I have a hard time believing that that would be his reaction if this was a surprise to him.

I could be wrong too!

Well, Brian Cox is actually out in the press today addressing this very subject.

I have a LOT of thoughts, but a question, first, for someone who's already seen this press...would his comments actually count as a spoiler for S3 and therefore out of bounds for this thread? I wanted to err on the side of caution.

[RealReality]

3 hours ago, haje said:

THE ADRENALINE RUSH I FELT ONCE
KENDALL PAUSED AND SAID "BUT..." Give Strong his Emmy for this ep alone. His face when Naomi, rightfully, tells him Logan only loves him broken. To the entire final scene with Logan and that dinner table scene (the look he and Roman share! They probably have the most genuine relationship out of all the siblings) and then the final moments. Whoo boy. Felt like I ran an entire marathon.

Already annoyed by some viewers immediately going the "IT WAS LOGAN'S PLAN ALL ALONG" theorizing route. This idea that some Succession viewers have that Logan is some sort of all-seeing chess master who sees 4 moves ahead of everyone else is baffling to me. He’s an abuser and a bully and that’s how he’s gone about his business. The two times Kendall tried to fuck him over he managed to survive through pure sheer force of nature and also through emotionally manipulating his own child. He thought he could throw Kendall to the wolves and Kendall would take it because Kendall has done so this entire season without any protest, not because he had some sort of ultimate plan to ultimately sacrifice himself by having Kendall do it for him. Him being casually cruel about the car crash isn’t him deliberately needling Kendall to fuck him over on live television, It’s Logan doing what he’s been doing to Kendall this entire show and this entire season: Be casually cruel and emotionally abusive. It’s just this time Kendall didn’t take it lying down. And that final smile is Logan being proud of it. Not because he and Kendall are secretly working together (The fact that this is even a theory is baffling) or because Logan KNEW that was the plan all along. It’s because for the first time in his life one of his kids had the actual guts to blindside him and stab him in the front.

Curious about how the family relationships are going to be handled next season. Kendall is going to habe Greg in his corner but who else? Will another sibling jump ship? A part of me hopes this move doesn't completely destroy Ken and Roman's relationship because I've grown to be especially invested in that dynamic.

I agree.  It didn't come off as a plan between the two of them.  To me, it read like Logan was taking down his most likely successor once and for all.  

Kendall did well in the congressional hearings and those are public.  Logan punted to him and while it may have been strategy, Kendall's strong answers made him look more "ceo-esque" than Logan. 

Logan couldn't have any potential successor looking more "in charge" and able than he looks.  

Kendall is also.the only child who even dared to TRY to wrest control from Logan. 

So, the best case scenario for logan was to ruin Kendall once and for all.

Logan's game is to never let up control until he is dead.  If his kids were outsiders looking in....each of them would be able to see it.  

Logan's floating the entire "well, the shareholders don't want it to be me" line on the cruise makes me think it wasn't a plan between he and Kendall.  He got rid of Naomi because he only wanted people he could trust.  If he had any intention of stepping down, he could have discussed it and strategy with everyone on that boat....who he trusted 

[chick binewski]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

No whackings, no dragon fire.

The lines are great but no action.

A dragon scene would have been amazing during the yacht scenes, if only to hear Roman's sardonic observation.

But someone's totally gonna get whacked at some point here, yes? I mean, other than cruise employees. 

[BlackberryJam]

27 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

A dragon scene would have been amazing during the yacht scenes, if only to hear Roman's sardonic observation.

But someone's totally gonna get whacked at some point here, yes? I mean, other than cruise employees. 

Does it count if it's NRPI?

[sistermagpie]

5 hours ago, preeya said:

Ahh, Romulus & Remus. . . . . brings back memories of high school Latin class. (now I'm showing my age)

4 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

That makes two of us.  Heck, I don't think they even TEACH Latin at the high school level anymore.

Me three! I'm sure they teach it somewhere still...

I forgot how much I loved Tom eating that chicken. Also I loved Greg getting called out for having a "favorite" champagne and defending himself saying that if you drink enough of it obviously you can't help but notice the taste!

[cardigirl]

“Sails out, nails out!”

[ichbin]

What's the deal with Marcia?  Shiv makes reference to some gaudy decorating that was part of Marcia's refit of the yacht as being her way of cutting Logan's ties.  Then there was Logan on the phone asking about a woman's whereabouts after the scene of him looking at the unoccupied side of his bed.  Nothing definitive about whether she left him for good or is just stewing somewhere.  

4 hours ago, car54 said:

I think Tom eating Logan's chicken might be my favorite scene of the whole series.

I agree!  Logan's reaction was hysterical.  From "What the fuck!" to "Well, what's next, stick his cock in my potato salad?"  

Considering the intensity of the episode there were quite a few laugh out loud moments.  It was pretty funny when Connor offered to fall on the sword and let the world think he was the evil genius behind everything.  Loved the other character's reactions to that. When Frank asked Willa about her play and she snarled at him to "fuck off!"  Speaking of which, why was Willa even allowed to sit in on the discussions.  She's not family and not a business associate.  

I wish we would get more of Tom's backstory.  When he told Shiv he's not a hippie...well, just a weird phriase from someone his age.  How was this character raised?

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Me three! I'm sure they teach it somewhere still...

It's still taught in our local high school in the midwest.

[ProudMary]

Can we just take a moment to observe how stunning that yacht was?!?! I'd think that this episode has to get an Emmy nomination for set decoration. I'd love some kind of breakdown as to how much was shot on sets and how much on an actual yacht. 

When Roman was defending Gerri from those who wanted her to be the sacrifice, it was impressive that he seemed to be the only one who realized that it should not be a woman who was thrown to the lions for a corporate scandal where women were the victims.

The big question is: Which S2 episode does Jeremy Strong submit for Emmy consideration? If he doesn't win for his work this season, they should just stop giving out awards.

[luckylou]

@  northbound train  ...   cox’s explanation works for me for sure.

[scrb]

One of the biggest disappointments for me in this episode was Willa's reaction to the bad reviews her play got.

I can't believe she didn't recycle that iPad!😋

[Eyes High]

6 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Can we just take a moment to observe how stunning that yacht was?!?! I'd think that this episode has to get an Emmy nomination for set decoration. I'd love some kind of breakdown as to how much was shot on sets and how much on an actual yacht. 

Judging from post-finale interviews with cast and crew about filming 2x10 and the way the production seems to operate in general, I think they filmed everything on the yacht, no sets. This is similar to what they did with the "Hungarian" estate in 2x03 (filmed entirely at Oheka Castle, interiors and all), "Tern Haven" in 2x05 (filmed entirely at a Long Island mansion, interiors and all), and the "Argestes conference" in 2x06 (filmed entirely at the Whiteface Lodge, apart from the nature walk).

The yacht used was the Solandge, which you can see here. Apparently, it's available for charter for a million euros a week, and I have no idea how the production could afford to film on that vessel unless they cut some sort of deal.

There's a great writeup here about costume designer Michelle Matland and yacht fashion in the finale. Apparently, Kendall's ridiculous (Paul Stuart) trilby hat was Jeremy Strong's, and J. Smith Cameron loved Shiv's floppy Lola straw hat so much that she bought one for herself.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Eyes High

[terrymct]

On 10/13/2019 at 10:27 PM, Dminches said:

Logan had a look on his face which said “well, son, I guess you are a killer after all.”  He almost looked proud of him.

Naw, my money is on Logan having set this up.   He knew that the board didn't want his head, so he forced them into taking it.   Shiv can now step in and be the "new face, new era, new company" and the Roys still control everything.

[sistermagpie]

12 hours ago, ichbin said:

I wish we would get more of Tom's backstory.  When he told Shiv he's not a hippie...well, just a weird phriase from someone his age.  How was this character raised?

It's still taught in our local high school in the midwest.

He's from Minnesota, right? I think he was just raised by regular people who were basically conservative (maybe not politically but just in terms of their behavior) so he doesn't see open relationships as being a marriage or want to join any orgies with more than two people.

It's like that monologue Jerry once gave on Seinfeld about how he's not an orgy guy and if he became one he'd have to change his whole lifestyle. He'd have to redecorate with weird lighting and satin sheets and grow a mustache etc. 

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, terrymct said:

Naw, my money is on Logan having set this up.   He knew that the board didn't want his head, so he forced them into taking it.   Shiv can now step in and be the "new face, new era, new company" and the Roys still control everything.

But the board DID want his head.  His biggest shareholder point blank said that they wanted the sacrifice to be him.  To which Logan replied that he would "think about it"

The only person who ever said that the board didn't want Logan's head....was Logan.  

The way Logan planned to set it up allowed him to retain power, sacrifice Kendall to the public and bury him forever and continue to retain control.  If this show has taught us anything over and over and over it is that Logan will do nearly anything to stay in power and in control. 

If Logan wanted to make himself the blood sacrifice he could have done so without any of these theatrics and the potential for criminal charges.  Simply step down on his own terms, admit to nothing and the whole thing goes away.  

I see very few signs or indications that he is handing over control to shiv or anyone as long as he retains power. 

As someone upthread said, Logan is a smart guy, but his motivations are simple and he from where I sit, he isn't playing a grand 4D chess game.  

Edited October 15, 2019 by RealReality

[luckylou]

2 hours ago, terrymct said:

Naw, my money is on Logan having set this up.   He knew that the board didn't want his head, so he forced them into taking it.   Shiv can now step in and be the "new face, new era, new company" and the Roys still control everything.

Problem is the phone call from the investor demanding his resignation.  Logan knows that he has to go if the family is to stay in control, but of course those on the board are afraid to vote for him to go.  So he  manipulates Ken...forcing Ken to either become that desired “killer” or else to become the sacrifice.  Thus the smile.

[ProudMary]

5 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Judging from post-finale interviews with cast and crew about filming 2x10 and the way the production seems to operate in general, I think they filmed everything on the yacht, no sets. 

...

The yacht used was the Solandge, which you can see here. Apparently, it's available for charter for a million euros a week, and I have no idea how the production could afford to film on that vessel unless they cut some sort of deal.

I posted my comments here before I had the opportunity to read any of the cast/crew interviews, but from what I've now read, I've come to the same conclusion, that everything was filmed onboard. As most of the communal areas of the yacht were outdoor or indoor/outdoor, I assumed that those were filmed aboard the yacht, but I thought that perhaps some of the indoor shots, staterooms for example, might have been sets; but no! There's Logan's stateroom in the promotional video you that you linked. (Thanks for sharing that BTW. It's amazing.)

[terrymct]

Watch Logan's face at the end.  He's not angry at Kendall.   He doesn't explode as he'd done so many other times.  He's watching the game unfold that he laid out.

[scrb]

1 hour ago, ProudMary said:

I posted my comments here before I had the opportunity to read any of the cast/crew interviews, but from what I've now read, I've come to the same conclusion, that everything was filmed onboard. As most of the communal areas of the yacht were outdoor or indoor/outdoor, I assumed that those were filmed aboard the yacht, but I thought that perhaps some of the indoor shots, staterooms for example, might have been sets; but no! There's Logan's stateroom in the promotional video you that you linked. (Thanks for sharing that BTW. It's amazing.)

Probably chose one big enough so that the interiors can have room for the cameras, lighting and crew.

Also had to be big enough to have the helicopter arrival and departure too.

It is a lot but maybe the yacht owners gave them a discount because it would be featured on the show.

Either way, even 1 million Euro is probably okay for the budget, unless they were to lease it for every episode or something.

[TaraS1]

On 10/14/2019 at 11:10 AM, BlackberryJam said:

Roman generally skeeves me out in a really hilarious way, but the hostage experience seemed to have matured him. I liked him standing up for Kendall, standing up for Gerri and pointing out that the cash deal was unlikely to happen.

ITA that it seemed to have matured/changed him a bit.  At least for the moment lol.  He could have easily went along with Laird about how solid the sovereign wealth deal was, but he's not the same guy who watched that satellite explode and just put his phone back in his pocket and said it went great when someone asked.  

19 hours ago, chick binewski said:

I don't know why this show isn't more of a thing. Maybe the themes and tone make it less meme-y and in this day if you don't have a big online fan presence or a product  or comic-con tie-in (I'm guessing I couldn't afford any Roy accessories) why bother? The video @Dminches posted was maybe the first thing I've seen online re the show other than a straight article.

There isn't even an official Twitter or Instagram account for the show (that I'm aware of anyway), which really shocks me.  I tweeted HBO asking for some Waystar/Royco merchandise, but didn't get a response lol.  I even went to Waystar-Royco.com (which was on the backdrop behind Kendall during his speech) to see if that might be some neat little easter egg for us, but alas....

12 hours ago, ProudMary said:

When Roman was defending Gerri from those who wanted her to be the sacrifice, it was impressive that he seemed to be the only one who realized that it should not be a woman who was thrown to the lions for a corporate scandal where women were the victims.

I was not only impressed with Roman for coming up with it, I was disappointed in myself that I hadn't even thought of it.

[smartymarty]

My only hesitation at agreeing that Logan is in on what Kendall did is that I'd think they'd show us. I know, I know, great to not show it and have that the finale. But something's off for me.

Also, how did Kendall find out that Greg has documents?  Also off-screen? And Greg only saved 3-4 pieces of paper. They really are damning enough? Greg, you really should have scanned all of them.)

[sistermagpie]

40 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Also, how did Kendall find out that Greg has documents?  Also off-screen? And Greg only saved 3-4 pieces of paper. They really are damning enough? Greg, you really should have scanned all of them.)

We don't know how he found out he had them but they had plenty of time together after Greg said he thought was Logan was doing was terrible. Any paper with Logan signing off on some criminal cover up would be evidence. Especially since as Kendall said, it's pretty much a no-brainer that he knew about everything anyway. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

Here's what I think based on skimming the articles that northboundtrain linked to and the way Logan reacted to Kendall's press conference: It's not that Logan planned this whole thing out per se or was in cahoots with anyone, it's just that he knew it was a possibility. He's not playing 3D chess, but he is playing chess. He considered all of the outcomes and chose one that he could live with. Something that he considered was the fact whoever he made the blood sacrifice might possibly turn on him and fight back and he was including his own children in that possibility. We saw what happened at that table when they discussed who it should be. They were fighting amongst themselves but once one of them was chosen, it's not a big leap to consider that they would try and take Logan down as they went down. So Logan deliberately chose his own child because he figured if someone was going to fight back, it would be better for the family if it was one of the family. In other words, it wouldn't look good to the outside world if it seemed the family was circling the wagons while they threw an outsider to the wolves. This way, his family is "clean" and has a better chance of retaining control of the company. Choosing a family member plays better for him whether they fight back or don't but choosing an outsider could lose his family everything. He's hedging his bets.

If Logan were to bet on what Kendall would do before that press conference, I would guess he didn't think Kendall had it in him. I mean, he did give Kendall that whole "killer" speech. In Logan's eyes, did he think he was needling Kendall or was he justifying his actions? I don't know and I'm not sure Logan even knows.

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, terrymct said:

Watch Logan's face at the end.  He's not angry at Kendall.   He doesn't explode as he'd done so many other times.  He's watching the game unfold that he laid out.

.....or, he is just as surprised as everyone else, is trying to process in real time how his plan is coming apart and is begrudgingly respectful of Kendall being the killer he never thought he could be. 

There is so little pointing to a conspiracy between Logan and Kendall and so many other things pointing away from that conclusion that I think Logan just got blindsided.  

He got Kendall into a room and gave him this song and dance about incas sacrificing their children to the gods and then saying it had to be him as part of some elaborate conspiracy theory?  For a man who likes to talk straight that type of tortured justification can only be necessary to get someone to accept being a sacrifice.  

And then why the conversation about "would I have been a good CEO?" if Kendall was supposed to skewer Logan?

If Logan just wanted Kendall to give him up at a press conference all he had to do was tell him that.  All the games for an uncertain outcome wouldn't make sense.  He could have just told Kendall what to say and been assured of the outcome. 

A conspiracy theory between Logan and Kendall doesn't seem to accomplish anything that could have been accomplished with much less effort.  

[luckylou]

2 hours ago, smartymarty said:

My only hesitation at agreeing that Logan is in on what Kendall did is that I'd think they'd show us. I know, I know, great to not show it and have that the finale. But something's off for me.

Also, how did Kendall find out that Greg has documents?  Also off-screen? And Greg only saved 3-4 pieces of paper. They really are damning enough? Greg, you really should have scanned all of them.)

I don’t think Kendall and Logan were collaborating.  I think Logan knew that if he were still CEO, he would lose the proxy fight, based on what the investor who called him said.  So when he sees Kendall denounce him at the press conference, Logan sees that although he is not going to be CEO, his family will still control the company, and he may believe he can still control Kendall. So Logan may have considered the possibility that Ken would try to take control...the third time, after all...and may have actually behaved as he did to see what Ken would do.  So maybe that smile is a bit of pride in Ken and in his own ability to turn the kid into that “killer” he wanted him to be.

Greg probably made copies of all the documents. Those that were burned were probably copies of copies. Why wouldn’t he have done so?  Copy machines are everywhere.  Greg actually arrived at the yacht with Kendall. Greg buys Kendall’s dope, lives at his place, and has had plenty of opportunity to talk with him.

Edited October 15, 2019 by luckylou

[Aja]

This show is AWESOME.

I, too, am mystified that there seems to be almost no promotion. I had a health issue last year that meant I couldn't work for five months, and I basically watched EVERYTHING. That's how I just sort of ran into season 1, which blew my mind. I seemed to be the only one on the planet who was watching, though. Nobody I knew had even heard of it. I was SO EXCITED when season 2 came out! I really hope this amazing show and amazing actors start getting some serious kudos.

One of the things I find the most fascinating is the storytelling. There is so much left out, so much to infer. I think that maybe, for me, the lack of a "good guy" to "root for" is way more than made up for by the more-questions-than-answers narrative style--I'm just endlessly intrigued. What is Shiv's attachment to Tom? Don't know, but it's clearly real, and it's clearly strong, as we saw on the beach. What exactly is Logan and Marcia's story? And where is she now? Did Logan and Rhea ever actually *have* an affair? What were the Roy kids' childhoods like? Where is Connor's mother? How sick is Logan, exactly? How much of his behavior is stroke-related? How savvy *is* Greg, exactly? I got the impression that he probably told Kendall about the documents sometime after the ride back in the helicopter. Kendall said something like "you can go to the bathroom, I'm not going to jump out the window." It didn't seem like they were plotting anything together right then. But who knows, really?

Whatever Gerri and Roman's connection is, I absolutely love it. I love that she's his total Domme, I love that Roman got genuinely bristly at the thought of Logan having sex with her, I love that they stick up for each other in front of Logan, I love Roman's psychotic marriage proposal to her, I love the two of them plotting together--while perhaps not the "good guys" to "root for", at least it's something real and genuine amongst all the backstabbing and disloyalty. All of the Roy kids are giant pricks, but they're also all severely damaged in ways that we can only imagine. We get glimpses--the smack on the mouth, the endless emotional manipulation by their father, the three younger siblings' cold, unfeeling mother--but my guess is all of that is just the tip of the iceberg. They all do and say things that make them extremely hard to like--and then you see how broken they are. So it's nice to see at least one of them experiencing genuine connection and trust.

I hope we don't have to wait until next summer for season 3!!

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, RealReality said:

.....or, he is just as surprised as everyone else, is trying to process in real time how his plan is coming apart and is begrudgingly respectful of Kendall being the killer he never thought he could be. 

There is so little pointing to a conspiracy between Logan and Kendall and so many other things pointing away from that conclusion that I think Logan just got blindsided.  

He got Kendall into a room and gave him this song and dance about incas sacrificing their children to the gods and then saying it had to be him as part of some elaborate conspiracy theory?  For a man who likes to talk straight that type of tortured justification can only be necessary to get someone to accept being a sacrifice.  

And then why the conversation about "would I have been a good CEO?" if Kendall was supposed to skewer Logan?

If Logan just wanted Kendall to give him up at a press conference all he had to do was tell him that.  All the games for an uncertain outcome wouldn't make sense.  He could have just told Kendall what to say and been assured of the outcome. 

A conspiracy theory between Logan and Kendall doesn't seem to accomplish anything that could have been accomplished with much less effort.  

Yes, plus if it's a big conspiracy where did Greg come into it? Logan knew his signature was on things that Greg had too?

It just makes it so all the characters are behaving in strange ways to fool an audience they don't know is there.

[smartymarty]

14 hours ago, Aja said:

That's how I just sort of ran into season 1, which blew my mind.

Was watching something else on HBO when saw a commercial for Succession. Would not have known about it otherwise. Smiling now that it's finally catching on with the rest of the TV world.

[RealReality]

17 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Was watching something else on HBO when saw a commercial for Succession. Would not have known about it otherwise. Smiling now that it's finally catching on with the rest of the TV world.

Guy at work recommended the show when I was looking for something to watch.  That guy always has solid recommendations for shows that are really good but haven't caught on yet (succession, snowfall) so I gave it a whirl.