S05.E07: Episode 7

[LoveLeigh]

39 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Alas, we just got some poison ivy on the side of the road, and if that was supposed to have any symbolism, it was lost on me.

Isn't poison ivy contagious if another person comes in contact with the urushiol oil? So maybe Whitney will get it from Noah from some open rash which he caused from all that scratching. 

[izabella]

17 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

Isn't poison ivy contagious if another person comes in contact with the urushiol oil? So maybe Whitney will get it from Noah from some open rash which he caused from all that scratching. 

Thank you for reminding me, because I was yelling at the tv the whole time.  YES, the oil is a big problem if you touch ANYTHING else.  Clothing, steering wheel, that taxi seat he was riding in, the wedding dress shop door and everything else he touched while there, the house, Whitney herself...everything he touched with that oil on his hands will have the oil and that oil will infect everyone who touches it.  He's also spreading it to other parts of his own body. 

[Guest]

And what was with Helen's mother's swipe at Noah for being a shitty driver? Did whoever write this episode have any clue that Helen herself told her mother SHE was the one who mowed down Scotty? 

I mean, honestly, COME. ON.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

1 minute ago, izabella said:

Thank you for reminding me, because I was yelling at the tv the whole time.  YES, the oil is a big problem if you touch ANYTHING else.  Clothing, steering wheel, that taxi seat he was riding in, the wedding dress shop door and everything else he touched while there, the house, Whitney herself...everything he touched with that oil on his hands will have the oil and that oil will infect everyone who touches it.  He's also spreading it to other parts of his own body. 

So perhaps we will now get to see Noah with poison ivy of the crotch?  If they haven't made him unappealing enough this season, that should do it.

[Razzberry]

4 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Whiny Whitney is still whiny as fuck.  When she asked Noah why he left Helen & the kids, I screamed at my TV — get the fuck over it, ya brat & mind your own business & quit whining & live your life & move on!  Would a conversation like this EVER happen?  NO!  Would you ask your parents why exactly they divorced?  It’s their business & their choice.  Jeez, can Whitney ever stop whining?

And why the hell does Whitney need a fancy schmancy billionaire’s wedding when she’s marrying some jobless, penniless bum?

I actually had some sympathy for Noah this episode.  Just once I wish he'd tell those whiny kids to grow up and get over it already.  I mean, it's been years and they're still hammering him about it at every opportunity.  Maybe he left because his kids are such whiny dicks.

This pre-deportation wedding is such a waste of money - we all know they'll divorced in within three years, tops.

[grommit2]

On 10/6/2019 at 1:38 AM, DakotaLavender said:

Edited October 7, 2019 by grommit2
Oops...I messed this up...agh!

[JenE4]

The best part of the episode was Ben’s deadpan response to Joanie’s “I’m going to cut your dick off and watch you bleed out”: “That is one option.”

But if “Gabrielle” is stupid enough to sign Joanie Lockhart-(whatever) on the contract, then she deserved to be hornswoggled. Brilliant undercover work there, Sherlock.

I disagree with the comments that the show is “faking” a #metoo storyline. Noah Fucking Solloway imagined every woman ever throwing herself at him (example, girl at the diner giving him “fuck me eyes” until he realized she was really hitting on Sasha), so of course his recollection is Eden hitting on him. So I wouldn’t bat an eye for a second with her memory feeling pressured or that her job was on the line. But in the year 2019, it’s *wrong* for any boss to be sleeping with a subordinate, so I can see the “media industry” (both as this show and fictionally within this show) wanting to go back and do a little retcon that in the pre-Weinstein era a couple of seasons back, ooh, this storyline doesn’t really make the cut today that we made Noah such a lothario. 

[weaver]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

Luisa worked as a maid for Helen's parents.

I know.  Noah isn’t Helen; his background was poor.  Cole’s background was not wealthy or upper class.  Who scorned Luisa because of her background?   What right had she to say she was nothing more than an employee to them.    I think Treem was just trying to get some social commentary in, but the facts didn’t fit. 

[grommit2]

My 2 cents:  Ben pulled off a trick that, I contend, many many criminals wish they could execute.  Ben took 30 or so years to conjure a "fool-proof" plan to cover his tracks, redirect the attention, and provide an alibi.  He faked the treatment notes, relied on Joanie's unwillingness to read a legal document, and even bamboozled her into thinking she had it all figured out. 

She did.  Almost.  His plan was executed flawlessly.  Perhaps he relied on the local police unwillingness to examine the records. Perhaps he bet on Joanie being so surprised that she would not offer up EJ as a witness to her recent activities.  Of course, this is TV...fiction. 

[LoveLeigh]

14 minutes ago, grommit2 said:

My 2 cents:  Ben pulled off a trick that, I contend, many many criminals wish they could execute.  Ben took 30 or so years to conjure a "fool-proof" plan to cover his tracks, redirect the attention, and provide an alibi.  He faked the treatment notes, relied on Joanie's unwillingness to read a legal document, and even bamboozled her into thinking she had it all figured out. 

She did.  Almost.  His plan was executed flawlessly.  Perhaps he relied on the local police unwillingness to examine the records. Perhaps he bet on Joanie being so surprised that she would not offer up EJ as a witness to her recent activities.  Of course, this is TV...fiction. 

Ah, GROMMIT2, exactly my point. This would have worked 55 years ago as an Alfred Hitchcock episode. You stated it perfectly. And of course Hitchcock would appear at the end to explain how old Ben really did not get away with murder. 

Every time I think of this episode I am angry: angry that I waited 7 episodes for an answer that was more than disappointing. It was idiotic. It is so idiotic I think we will see another version. Plus, could the actor who played old Ben be so bad? He did not even seem to be the same guy as young Ben. And that idiotic place he created to "do good" was laughable. Sarah Treem needs to go back to university and take a screenwriting class. She is delusional to think an audience who watched this show for 7 seasons would buy that crap. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

I don’t usually notice such things, but I was really bothered at the stupidity of Helen’s wedding dress fitting Whitney so fucking perfectly.  Look, I’m not interested in body shaming anyone, but the differences between those 2 are totally blaring & obvious.  Whitney is like a foot taller than Helen & has a runway model’s super thin body, and Helen doesn’t & likely never did.  More dumbass, senseless shit.  Grrrrr . . .

[izabella]

29 minutes ago, weaver said:

I know.  Noah isn’t Helen; his background was poor.  Cole’s background was not wealthy or upper class.  Who scorned Luisa because of her background?   What right had she to say she was nothing more than an employee to them.    I think Treem was just trying to get some social commentary in, but the facts didn’t fit. 

I'm guessing she's lumping Noah in with Helen and her parents and the kids since they all spent time at that Montauk house where Luisa worked.  Her right to say she was nothing more than an employee to them is based on her own perceptions, just like everyone else's on this show, whether based in fact or not.  Considering that we saw Luisa in Noah's POV only, who knows what she actually said or didn't say.  Everyone's POV on this show is questionable.

[LoveLeigh]

News flash, this just in. Sarah Treem blocked me on twitter which means my comment regarding her dopey writing for episode 7 really had an impact. She was triggered. 

[preeya]

11 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

News flash, this just in. Sarah Treem blocked me on twitter which means my comment regarding her dopey writing for episode 7 really had an impact. She was triggered. 

Well isn't that narrow minded. She can't take criticism. I'd suggest she doesn't write crap and attempt to pass it off as gold.

[Snewtsie]

Joanie confronting Ben was the worst 30 minutes of television I have ever watched. Even the beginning of the scene- with Ben explaining he takes gardening as payment (what??). And when he was confessing, why didn't Joanie grab the little white-cube-recorder and run out the door?!... But I split hairs. It's embarrassing the writers gave two reasonably talented actors those lousy lines to say, and we had to suffer through it with them.

[Diane12251]

3 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

ETA--this is extremely nit-picky, but does anyone know why Ben and Joanie kept referring to Allison's home, where Ben assaulted her, as "an apartment"?  I'm not going to go back and re-watch, but I could have sworn Allison was living in a house and not an apartment.

It was an upstairs apartment.  They showed her standing on an upstairs landing when Cole and Joanie (7 year old) were there when Ben walked by with flowers in his hand.

[grommit2]

2 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

News flash, this just in. Sarah Treem blocked me on twitter which means my comment regarding her dopey writing for episode 7 really had an impact. She was triggered. 

Wowwwww!  Do you know what that means?  Do you?!!
Sarah Treem...yes, the real Sarah Treem...actually reads the notes we post.
Sarah Treem reads MY MESSAGES!!!   Oh boy oh boy...I'm famous!
Or infamous.
Or just full of bologna.
Ha...I'm so funny.

Ooh...bonus...DakotaLavender reads my stuff, too.
Geez...this is getting really, really cool. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by grommit2
More exceptionally wise insight added.

[LoveLeigh]

2 hours ago, grommit2 said:

Wowwwww!  Do you know what that means?  Do you?!!
Sarah Treem...yes, the real Sarah Treem...actually reads the notes we post.
Sarah Treem reads MY MESSAGES!!!   Oh boy oh boy...I'm famous!
Or infamous.
Or just full of bologna.
Ha...I'm so funny.

I just told her that episode 7 was ridiculous and a few hours later I was blocked. I really was blocked. I concluded that she was triggered and it was no reflection of my "fame." 

ETA: Of course I read GROMMIT2'S post. She quoted me. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by DakotaLavender

[weaver]

3 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

News flash, this just in. Sarah Treem blocked me on twitter which means my comment regarding her dopey writing for episode 7 really had an impact. She was triggered. 

OMG, I have to catch up on her Twitter tomorrow.  

[neece26]

This season is so bad.  The show really doesn't work for me after losing the Cole and Alison characters.  I feel like they don't know where to go with the story now and this crapfest is the result.  I do not enjoy seeing long POV segments from secondary characters like Janelle, Sierra and Whitney.  The introduction of the Joanie, Sasha storylines haven't added anything for me. I used to love this show but now I'm either bored or rolling my eyes when it's on.   Probably should have ended it after last season because everything was pretty much wrapped up in a way that made sense to viewers.  

[ScoobieDoobs]

I gave up on reading recaps cuz this season is so crappy & I just don’t care enough, but I wonder if Treem is extra sensitive cuz she’s getting a lot of negative feedback.  I mean, this ep in particular, makes it so evident Treem backed herself into a corner with this shitty future Joanie storyline.  This whole idea of Joanie in the future is such a fail on so many levels.  If Treem is watching this senseless mess along with us, then she knows it too.

If Treem had written out Alison & Cole more effectively & came up with something remotely interesting & original for Helen & Noah & the kids, then maybe this season wouldn’t suck so badly.  But I’m not sure I believe that.  I think Ruth Wilson & Joshua Jackson were an integral part of the reason for this show being as riveting as it was — and emphasize was.  Just one tiny past scene of them made this lousy ep a bit better.

Do I care how the Joanie story is gonna end?  Not really, but I’ll watch — probably hate watch.  Hopefully, Margaret will pop up with more fun insults like “vagabond whore” (still chuckling over that one) or even more fun reminders like how everyone still thinks Noah ran down Scotty.  Seriously, anyone think Treem got someone to just write Margaret’s lines — like maybe Bette Midler?

Edited October 8, 2019 by ScoobieDoobs

[ww92]

This whole episode was an hour of my life I'll never get back.

[LydiaE]

On 10/6/2019 at 5:31 AM, Stad15 said:

Tony Plana is a pretty good veteran actor.  Blame the writing and directing, not the actor.  Plana has done a lot of different work throughout his career, but I know him best as Ugly Betty's dad and the evil stepdad in Desperate Housewives.

The actor who once played Oscar on the show was an accomplished thespian as well.

[AngelaHunter]

Just got to watch this. Whiney Whitney feels she's ready for marriage when she is a pouting, spoiled brat who flounces off to sulk if she can't have everything she wants. If she can't have a Royal Wedding she may as well just truck her bony ass down to City Hall? There are no other options for a grown-up person? I wanted to slap her. Yeah, that marriage is really going to last. And if she's old enough to get married, she should be mature enough to understand what happened to her parents' marriage. She doens't have to like but she needs to get over it. She's cheating even before the wedding and with that slimy creep Furball. As for the 17K wedding dress - I cannot imagine salespeople at a bridal salon being that rude and snotty. They're usually very obliging and accomodating professionals, wishing to make a sale. They certainly wouldn't try to humiliate their clients.

8 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I agree, Noah has never had to sexually harass anyone.  If anything he's been an object of lust by hordes of horny women.

That's for sure. He even has to fight them off. I thought the wedding sales woman was going to lower her knickers right there, before he balked at a rediculously expensive dress.

I

8 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

-this is extremely nit-picky, but does anyone know why Ben and Joanie kept referring to Allison's home, where Ben assaulted her, as "an apartment"?  

It was a rental unit, so I guess it could be termed an "apartment." IIRC, it was one of several.

I liked the first part of this the best. Watching Bruce was hard, because my stepfather had Alzheimer's. He didn't know who I was either and didn't remember my mother who had died a few years before the onset of his illness. Margaret may seem impatient with him, but living 24/7 with someone who has that condition is exhausting, trying and heartbreaking and could wear anyone down, plus Margaret is elderly herself. I did laugh when she said Helen's wedding dress made her look like a "vagabond whore."

Joanie and Ben: I didn't like this much. It felt very rushed and too pat and as though he had this very detailed plan or script laid out in advance, but he couldn't have known Joanie was going to pose as a patient and appear at his door when she did. He instantly recognizes her and immediately confesses he killed Alison. I felt this should have been a more gradual thing. I was always convinced he killed Alison and always thought it was accidental. Throwing her in the water without caring to find out if she was still alive (maybe he knew and just didn't want to even be arrested for assault or whatever) was the real crime. The only part of this that rang true and seemed genuine was Joanie telling him how he took her mother away from her. This should have been a major spike in the plot but somehow it all felt very flat.

I don't know why Luisa was so shitty to Noah. Yes, she was the babysitter, but Noah - for all his faults - would never look down on anyone for being the maid or a waitress or a babysitting. He's really not snobby, unlike Helen and her parents.

Edited October 8, 2019 by AngelaHunter

[Milburn Stone]

Am I the ONLY person in the world who liked this episode? (Actually, I know I'm not. Mrs. Stone liked it too.) The show has always had a dream-like quality, where things don't quite make sense. We have never once seen objective reality! Because the entire premise of the show is that if there is an objective reality, not one human being on earth knows it. We only know what our own consciousnesses perceive. It's a bitch--and it's called the human condition.

As each season has followed another, the dream has become more and more a nightmare. And that is intentional, too.

[TVFan17]

2 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Am I the ONLY person in the world who liked this episode? (Actually, I know I'm not. Mrs. Stone liked it too.) The show has always had a dream-like quality, where things don't quite make sense. We have never once seen objective reality! Because the entire premise of the show is that if there is an objective reality, not one human being on earth knows it. We only know what our own consciousnesses perceive. It's a bitch--and it's called the human condition.

As each season has followed another, the dream has become more and more a nightmare. And that is intentional, too.

I'm not going to judge the whole season by one episode, but I wasn't satisfied with the Joanie-Ben story line, no matter whose reality it was.    I have to believe that we haven't seen the last of Ben and that he will be punished in some way, but Joanie might not be the one to deliver that punishment. 

Not every episode -- or even every season -- of a series is going to be great.  Sometimes there will be episodes and seasons that are not as good as others.  In general, though, I find this series as a whole to be compelling and interesting enough to hold my attention and keep me watching until the bitter end, even if it stumbles here and there.

There are only 3 or 4 more episodes left, correct?   It just seems like the plot developments are veering off in all sorts of directions in the present and future, and I am hoping that everything can be wrapped up in a rewarding way by the final episode.   There's not much time left to do that.

[cardigirl]

20 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I’ve come this far so I might as well slog through the rest of this mess. 

About the high end bridal store. If Montauk is such a depressed area and only has electricity during daytime hours then why would this kind of a store be located there? Seems more like a place that would be better suited for NYC. How do Helen’s parents deal with the subpar conditions. Then again I might be confused with all this time and place traveling. Treem, if you are trying to confuse me as a way of covering up your iffy plot lines, then it may work somewhat here, but then it may take a lot for me to watch and follow another one that you might have in the future. 

This is like one of those vacation trips sitting in the backseat with your parents. “Are we there yet?” 

The poor conditions are in Joanie’s timeline, 30 years after Whitney’s and Noah’s visit to Montauk. 

[cardigirl]

15 hours ago, izabella said:

Luisa worked as a maid for Helen's parents.

Her mother worked for them. Luisa worked other jobs, and was involved with Cole’s brother, Scotty, initially. 

[Stad15]

16 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

News flash, this just in. Sarah Treem blocked me on twitter which means my comment regarding her dopey writing for episode 7 really had an impact. She was triggered. 

Agreed. Sarah Treem doesn't even do live tweets during episodes anymore, probably because of the criticism this season is getting.  Sarah's ego is as big as Jupiter.  She doesn't welcome new ideas and surrounds herself with "yes" people and writers.  I heard she has had differences with co-creator Hagi Levi and former co-showrunner Ryan Kate Selzer.  Both are no longer with the show.  And as for Ruth leaving - Sarah's the showrunner, so it falls on HER.

[LoveLeigh]

11 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Am I the ONLY person in the world who liked this episode? (Actually, I know I'm not. Mrs. Stone liked it too.) The show has always had a dream-like quality, where things don't quite make sense. We have never once seen objective reality! Because the entire premise of the show is that if there is an objective reality, not one human being on earth knows it. We only know what our own consciousnesses perceive. It's a bitch--and it's called the human condition.

As each season has followed another, the dream has become more and more a nightmare. And that is intentional, too.

I am surprised by your opinion since we discussed and analyzed all the possibilities regarding Alison's death. I think it was you, maybe it was Brian Cronin? You do not think this Joanie segment unraveled like an Alfred Hitchock episode from 1961? 

I am just hoping we get to see another version of what happened with Joanie and old Ben. Because I cannot believe young Ben aged into this old Ben. 

[MaggieG]

A few random thoughts:

-I know Whitney has been busy slaving away at her job, but why was nothing planned for this wedding? Why didn't she already have a dress? Speaking of dresses, when the sales woman said 17, I thought the dress was $1700. Silly me.

-Also, why the hell was Helen not there? I was under the impression that the wedding was going to be happening in a few days (I could be wrong about that). I understand she's busy at her new job at being decorator to the stars, but why would she miss her oldest daughter's wedding?

-As a child of divorce (my dad also cheated on my mom) I did feel slight sympathy for Whitney when she was asking Noah why he did it. I had those same thoughts and feelings

-I agree with the general consensus that the Joanie/Ben thing was ridiculous. The acting bothered me the most. When Ben was convincing the cops that Joanie was a patient, there was no fear or anger behind Anna's performance. It was like she was just reciting her lines. Terrible. 

-When the Vanity Fair lady called Noah, her voice sounded like the narrator of an audio-book I'm currently listening to.

[AngelaHunter]

11 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Am I the ONLY person in the world who liked this episode?

I did enjoy the first part, quite a bit, actually.

I could have also enjoyed the Ben/Joanie thing if it developed in a more organic-feeling way, and not as though someone were standing there clicking a stopwatch to see how fast they could get through it. More time was spent with Ben showing off his gardens than with the reveal and conclusion.

12 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

You do not think this Joanie segment unraveled like an Alfred Hitchock episode from 1961? 

The Master of Supense. I felt none watching this. It was too quick.

[AngelaHunter]

20 hours ago, Razzberry said:

This pre-deportation wedding is such a waste of money - we all know they'll divorced in within three years, tops.

Three years? I was thinking more like this marriage will rival that of Miley Cyrus in its brevity.

[preeya]

36 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

Speaking of dresses, when the sales woman said 17, I thought the dress was $1700. Silly me.

Silly me too. I also thought $1,700. Who in their right minds, other than millionaires, would spend $17k on a dress and $20k on a tent while having difficulty paying rent in an underwhelming apartment? Oh yeah, it's Whiney Whitney so all is OK.

ETA: What is the significance of the poison ivy? Anyone?

Edited October 8, 2019 by preeya

[ScoobieDoobs]

OK, one of the recaps brought up the point that we only got Noah’s POV of what happened with Eden.  Granted that is true, but nobody thus far has ever accused Noah making unwanted advances & he’s been able to hook up with lots of women in everyone’s POV.

Remember Margaret’s sarcastic  greeting to Janelle about her being Noah’s latest?  So it’s pretty well established Noah gets tons of women without harassing anyone.  I’m already very suspicious this accusation from Eden is phony — and if it is, I’ll be really annoyed at Treem for tossing this serious issue into the mix of endless throwaway storylines this season.

[ScoobieDoobs]

24 minutes ago, preeya said:

Silly me too. I also thought $1,700. Who in their right minds, other than millionaires, would spend $17k on a dress and $20k on a tent while having difficulty paying rent in an underwhelming apartment? Oh yeah, it's Whiney Whitney so all is OK.

ETA: What is the significance of the poison ivy? Anyone?

It gives me a headache to think too much about whiny Whitney, but she was full of crap.  Fact is, a super expensive dress goes along with a super expensive wedding.  Sure, 17 thou is nuts for a dress, but you can spend way more than that on a ring or a watch — and she never even mentions a ring.

I guess the whole purpose of that scene was to get them to have the convo about how Noah leaving Helen & the kids still has an effect on Whitney.  I’m OK with that — just didn’t think this was written or executed well.

Edited October 8, 2019 by ScoobieDoobs

[Razzberry]

24 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

You do not think this Joanie segment unraveled like an Alfred Hitchock episode from 1961? 

Hitchcock hated criticism from those he called "The Plausible's" and would've blocked you for this comment. 😉    

The comparison gives Treem too much credit, imo, but I get it.  Suspending disbelief is necessary for enjoying old movies, but a half-century later we expect more.  People should act in a consistent and  plausible manner, and when they don't there should be a plausible reason for it.

Luisa for example, seems to have grown a huge chip on her shoulder about her early days of babysitting Noah's kids.  God knows that couldn't have been a picnic, but we've all done babysitting.  It's not normal, nor in Luisa's character, to hold a grudge this long.

[JenE4]

Re the comments about the sales ladies being unprofessional and Luisa being bitchy, too, etc: This is Noah’s perspective, so it doesn’t mean they actually acted this way. Case in point, Cole is divorcing Luisa and leaving the state with her step-daughter, so she certainly has “just cause” for acting gruff and upset. If Noah thinks she’s acting that way to or because of him, then that’s on him. Any person with any empathy would recognize that Luisa must be heartbroken right now. But Noah Fucking Solloway needs to make it all about him—and even tries to insert himself into the goodbye that Luisa needs to have with Cole and Joanie. Noah Fucking Solloway also hears $17k and decides it’s his own Pretty Woman moment. I also don’t buy that Whitney would show up for her wedding weekend(?) with nothing planned, but long-suffering Noah Fucking Solloway needs to paint himself the hero, swooping in to save the day. 

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, MaggieG said:

A few random thoughts:

-I know Whitney has been busy slaving away at her job, but why was nothing planned for this wedding? Why didn't she already have a dress? Speaking of dresses, when the sales woman said 17, I thought the dress was $1700. Silly me.

1 hour ago, preeya said:

Silly me too. I also thought $1,700. Who in their right minds, other than millionaires, would spend $17k on a dress and $20k on a tent while having difficulty paying rent in an underwhelming apartment? Oh yeah, it's Whiney Whitney so all is OK.

ETA: What is the significance of the poison ivy? Anyone?

Does no one else watch "Say Yes to the Dress"?   The budgets on that show for dresses are mind-boggling, and I'm pretty certain Whitney had been led for most of her life to believe that she would have an all-out, no expenses spared wedding. But this wedding is coming at a time when Grandma and Grandpa are apparently skint, and mom is struggling to make ends meet so she's doing interior design (with no real prior qualifications) and dad seems to have not saved anything from his successful novels and movie deal. In other words, her previous lifestyle is no longer available to her.  She can't come home again. 

I was a bit surprised that Noah wasn't more prepared for the expenses of a Montauk wedding. Perhaps he thought that the grandparents were going to step up more, and was unaware of their financial situation. I don't know. 

And I agree, $17,000 is an obscene amount of money to spend on a dress (to me) and I would rather spend it on housing, but to someone in Whitney's usual circle, it would not seem that unusual. 

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I am surprised by your opinion since we discussed and analyzed all the possibilities regarding Alison's death. I think it was you, maybe it was Brian Cronin? You do not think this Joanie segment unraveled like an Alfred Hitchock episode from 1961?

Hi @DakotaLavender. It wasn't me who compared the episode to Alfred Hitchcock Presents circa 1961. That said, I love Hitchcock, and quite often find that episodes of his TV show hold up well, so for me, comparing this episode to Hitchcock wouldn't be a slam! On the third hand, I didn't think about Hitchcock at all as I watched Joanie's POV spool out. I do see the similarities, I'm just saying I wasn't thinking about them as I watched, because I was totally in the episode's grip.

[AngelaHunter]

48 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

I also don’t buy that Whitney would show up for her wedding weekend(?) with nothing planned,

Wait - she's getting married the weekend of her arrival in Montauk? I thought she was just there to make arrangements, hire caterers, buy the dress, arrange for music etc and the wedding is to be down the road. So did she send out invitations months earlier, and just hope an extravagant wedding can set up in days? What?

[preeya]

2 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Wait - she's getting married the weekend of her arrival in Montauk? I thought she was just there to make arrangements, hire caterers, buy the dress, arrange for music etc and the wedding is to be down the road. So did she send out invitations months earlier, and just hope an extravagant wedding can set up in days? What?

This is what I thought ↑,  not that the wedding would be immediate. Also, if she's going for all this extravagance, why not hire a wedding planner.

[Mindthinkr]

9 minutes ago, preeya said:

why not hire a wedding planner.

She doesn’t have the dosh. She didn’t clear financing with her parents pre this trip. Noah ended up offering to pay for the tent (20k). Her grandparents bowed out of fiscal liability. She also couldn’t afford a fancy dress even though she went shopping at a high faluting bridal shop. I think she went expecting more excitement and money to execute this dream wedding. 

[Razzberry]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

Re the comments about the sales ladies being unprofessional and Luisa being bitchy, too, etc: This is Noah’s perspective, so it doesn’t mean they actually acted this way. Case in point, Cole is divorcing Luisa and leaving the state with her step-daughter, so she certainly has “just cause” for acting gruff and upset. If Noah thinks she’s acting that way to or because of him, then that’s on him. Any person with any empathy would recognize that Luisa must be heartbroken right now. But Noah Fucking Solloway needs to make it all about him—and even tries to insert himself into the goodbye that Luisa needs to have with Cole and Joanie. Noah Fucking Solloway also hears $17k and decides it’s his own Pretty Woman moment. I also don’t buy that Whitney would show up for her wedding weekend(?) with nothing planned, but long-suffering Noah Fucking Solloway needs to paint himself the hero, swooping in to save the day. 

Trying to determine time passed since Alison's funeral, when Cole and Luisa agreed it was over and split the sheets.   At least a year, I would think.  Just seems like a long time to be making rude comments to old acquaintances, so I didn't connect those dots.   

[riverwind]

I hate that Ben got away with Alison murder, the creep! I thought Cole was going to investigate the whole thing with that young college guy for the last season. All the other stuff just wasn't important to fans that had been watching it from the start. Investigating and discovering what happened, is what would have been  intriguing, this just feels totality screwed up.

[nara]

2 hours ago, preeya said:

ETA: What is the significance of the poison ivy? Anyone?

Karma?

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Whitney or Noah said they were there for the weekend to make arrangements.  The wedding is some unspecified time in the future.  Apparently making appointments and doing research online (beyond the out of their price range bridal shop) was not part of the planning process. 

It is a good reminder that this was Noah's perspective on the bridal shop employees.  I cannot imagine them being that rude to a potential customer.  In reality, they would have asked about budget and brought out more reasonably priced dresses (if they have some). 

[chabelisaywow]

37 minutes ago, riverwind said:

I thought Cole was going to investigate the whole thing with that young college guy for the last season.

Am I dreaming? lol Ok, sorry - I had to think about the young college guy.  Anton? Noah's young college guy! He was actually the best part of that season. 

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, riverwind said:

I thought Cole was going to investigate the whole thing

I'm pissed off knowing that it appears that Cole, although he obviously suspected Ben to the point of obessession, seemed to have done nothing about his suspicions and didn't get the resolution of knowing what really happened to Alison. I actually think suicide, with the heavy burden of guilt, may be more devastating to those left behind than is murder.

I assuming Ben is going to get away with it, but maybe he's not.

Edited October 8, 2019 by AngelaHunter

[lightninggirl]

On 10/6/2019 at 10:24 PM, nara said:

There is a document signed by Joanie voluntarily committing herself for treatment and then a recording of her threatening Ben.

But all she has to say is "I haven't been here before XX date, and I can prove it via GPS, phone records, [insert whatever tech they have at that time to show where people are]. His records are fabricated and he manipulated that recording to show me threatening him." 

Because is he really going to play them more of the recording that has him confessing?

On 10/6/2019 at 4:05 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

EJ seems like he has his head on straight so maybe he can help Joanie navigate the justice system.

He let her go over to a supposed killer to let her confront him, so I'm not sure about EJ's head. Well, the upper one, anyway.