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S01.E08: Grand Guignol

Tara Ariano

By Tara Ariano
in Penny Dreadful [V]

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jennifda

jennifda

Ethan's dad's storyline is one I don't get. Exactly how long has Ethan been in England? It seems he knows how to contact Ethan, so the "covert" Pinkertons made no sense. As did their actions. We need to be stealth, stealth like walking up to someone, buying them a beer, and handing the shackles we are carrying.

The show also made it look like he can control it. Ethan seemed pretty happy they had showed up and then seemed to just wait for the transformation to take place rather than try to fight it.

  • Love 1
mister gloom

mister gloom

Well, we had a resolution to the Mina storyline and kind ifthe Brona storyline. I cant call it a letdown, especially because Dalton's performance at the end was a picture of what happens when hope dies. The action scene at the end was much better than 2 weeks ago. And the priest this week was a 180 from last week: willing to help and knowledgable but absolutely no bullshit that things are going to be HARD.

I actually like the carryover of the storyline, the situation with Vanessa is the overaching storyline.

And I think Malcolm may have found someone...maybe.

  • Love 1
sjohnson

sjohnson

(edited)

The relative ease with which "Dracula" was dispatched was anticlimactic. Who knows who (or what) the Master is? If it's the real Dracula and this one was an impostor, that would be a pretty shameless tease. 

 

The discovery that Ives need only be a born-again virgin who says no to temptation (aka Dorian Gray) to begin to resolve her demon problem is a little tacky. The idea that Sir Malcolm can redeem himself by killing his traitor daughter Mina for his "daughter" Vanessa is...something that seems really weird to me when I put it into words. If only it really were so easy to slay the monsters within! Can't help it, felt a little cheap on the resolution to me.

 

Ethan is the Wolfman, not a wolf. His debut was as devastating and appalling as Dracula's appearances were not, I thought. I would think Ethan slaughtered every man in that bar, not just the two Pinkerton's. By the way, I think the Pinkerton's idea of covert meant simply that the police would not be involved, which means a certain level of discretion re shackles. Not a problem in that dive but presumably awkward on public streets. I was impressed by the Ethan reveal, so that worked for me.

 

Book Frankenstein destroyed the Bride to prevent Caliban from peopling the isle, so to speak. It does seem like Victor maybe should be played by James Franco? Good lead in to second season I think. Madame Kali/Evelyn Pool is another agent of evil i think, not just a predatory widow.

Edited by sjohnson
  • Love 1
Michell3

Michell3

(edited)

First, I am relieved everyone made it out of the first season alive.  Even Caliban.

 

So Ethan is a werewolf, as everyone predicted.  Not a surprise, but I stood up and clapped like a seal when it happened anyway.  A bisexual werewolf Marlboro man in London with a heart of gold and a face like Hartnett?  This show.  

 

Chandler's dad clearly left his bounty hunters in the dark about what Chandler is, leaving them fatally ill-prepared to catch him and bring him back to the States. What was the point in that?  His dad should know that Chandler would tear them to pieces.  It just seemed silly.  Maybe just a quick plot device to give Chandler an opportunity to get wolfy?  

 

I thought that final question from the priest to Vanessa was predictable but completely out of context, coming from a priest ie essentially "are you sure you don't want to be alternately pursued or possessed by a demon? It makes you a special flower." Anyone who's seen an X-Men (or any hero) movie knows the question (special powers, blessing v.curse etc etc), but given these circumstances, it was completely odd coming from a priest.  

 

We all saw the Brona, Bride of Frankenstein thing coming, but for me, anyway, it wasn't any less horrifying to watch Dr. F offer her his vague "hope" of an afterlife, and then smother her, and then look Ethan in the eye 3 seconds later, say her death was nice and then volunteer to "take care of the body."  Oh, Dr. F.  You twisted and horrible little man.  Yes, I saw it all coming, but still found it all tragic and awful anyway.  He is a train wreck of a human being, and I can't look away.  He and Sir Malcolm have a lot in common.

 

Poor Dorian.  Watching him try to strike up a conversation with Vanessa, after aaaallll that happened last episode, was so painful.   "Hey, feelin' better?  You were sick so I went to Italy and went shopping." So clearly lovesick, and Vanessa was so clearly not.  I find it fascinating that all season long Dorian seems so charming, handsome, educated, mysterious etc...and suddenly now so ridiculous.  If Vanessa had leaned forward, patted the top of his head and told him to run along, I wouldn't have batted an eye.  Also, watching him touch his tear and look at it was sad and hilarious.  Poor guy.  Poor handsome, rich, soulless, eternally youthful guy. Can't win'em all I guess. (...still want to see that portrait though.)

 

Sembene got nothin'. Zero. You owe us an explanation, show.  

 

Overall, not many surprises here, but the finale did remind me how rich all these characters are.  I feel like who I'm sympathetic towards changes every show, and I think the writers have really done a great job of populating their story with complicated, three dimensional characters.  I like it when I'm not always sure who or what to root for.  

Edited by Michell3
  • Love 4
Bec

Bec

That's true, I don't think we got a definitive answer to who made that big blooder body pile in the beginning of the series. Or maybe the show is trying to be subtle and not feed us all the answers, and we're just supposed to conclude that Ethan did that. If that's the case it's a little too subtle for me.

 

Dorian's reaction to rejection was hilarious indeed. It's like he couldn't decide whether to be sad because he got rejected or happy because it's a new experience that he's not bored with yet.

 

I'm not sure I understand why Victor had to kill Brona. Wasn't she already dying? He totally Dr. Kevorkian-ed her. But I think she nodded when he asked if she's willing to pay the price for everlasting rebirth. She watched him grab the pillow and seemed to know that meant he was asking her if she wanted him to go ahead and smother her with it. So... it's not so bad because she okayed it first?

 

But man, I don't think she realized she was saying yes to being brought back as a living corpse and custom-ordered bride to another living corpse. So it's still kind of iffy. Now I'm on tenterhooks wondering how she will react when she is brought back. Will she remember? Will she be okay with it? Will she still be in love with Ethan? We're gonna get a Wolfman vs. Frankenstein's monster love triangle, aren't we?

 

Ethan must be too grief striken to think straight, because doesn't he remember Victor loves to cut up corpses for "research"? Who in their right mind would entrust the corpse of their loved one to this guy?

 

It is a departure from the book how it ended up that Victor wasn't coerced into making the bride, it was because he felt empathy for Caliban, felt remorse for being a bad creator, and felt some sense of responsibility to do right by his "child". Gotta hand it to Harry Treadaway for managing to convey all of that. The camera was mostly on Caliban speechifying and only on Victor's reaction for like ten seconds.

 

Basically show!Victor is a big old softy. I was so rooting for Victor to pull the trigger, though it was obvious he would somehow fail to kill Caliban. "Come on, Old Yeller him already!" I yelled futilely at the TV. Book!Victor totally would have pulled the trigger if he had the opportunity! (But then, book!Victor was a douchecanoe. Show!Victor is much better.)

  • Love 2
rozen

rozen

(edited)

The relative ease with which "Dracula" was dispatched was anticlimactic. Who knows who (or what) the Master is? If it's the real Dracula and this one was an impostor, that would be a pretty shameless tease. 

 

The discovery that Ives need only be a born-again virgin who says no to temptation (aka Dorian Gray) to begin to resolve her demon problem is a little tacky. The idea that Sir Malcolm can redeem himself by killing his traitor daughter Mina for his "daughter" Vanessa is...something that seems really weird to me when I put it into words. If only it really were so easy to slay the monsters within! Can't help it, felt a little cheap on the resolution to me.

 

Makes sense to me, whatever lesser vampire that was, and his harem, were bait to reel in Vanessa so she could be hand-delivered to the head man in charge. Vanessa would do anything to redeem herself in Mina's eyes, and Malcom (presumably) would do anything to save his last remaining kin to absolve himself of his guilt. It was a fool-proof plan, if you ignore the fact that Malcom is kind of a sociopath.  The guy likes the idea of family, not actually having one. Vanessa hears and obeys like a proper daughter, Mina rebelled against him/her humanity. Between two demons, he'll pick the one that's more pliable to be his 'family'. I'm starting to think half of Malcom's insistence that he'd throw Vanessa over the boat first chance he got was more to convince himself that he didn't like her better. I bet next season he'll revel in being able to drop the I Shot My Daughter For You bomb on Vanessa any time she resists anything.

 

If the whole lot weren't on some sort of redemptive guilt trip they would have realized that 'The Master' must be somewhere pulling the strings. The big bad monster was more like an overgrown housecat, "stop interrupting my naptimes!"

 

I think the earlier episode where Chandler wakes up with claw marks in his hands, then walks across town to see a heap of butchered ladies, was kind of a hint that he's unstoppable in wolf form. The inn was only important to him because of Brona, and his side job with Vanessa and Malcom. All those things are resolved, so he seemed a bit like 'what do I care now'. He was going to murder any human being within striking distance anyhow, maybe a doorknob would slow him down or something, heh. 

 

Uh, shouldn't have Frankenstein picked someone who was less of a spitfire to revive? Brona's going to raise holy helll at the idea she's supposed to just gallivant into the night with Stage 5 Clinger Caliban. If he'd killed the theater girl she'd probably have gone along it because she's an idiot.

 

I totally expected that priest's eyes to turn black and for him to say "oh, you thought you could get rid of me that easily?" Anyone who says it might be years or never to cure you, and then follows up with "but don't you want to be special?" is not trustworthy. You in danger, girl. Get a second opinion, or find that priest whose face you bit off, he's probably a true believer now.

 

Still don't like Dorian. Want more lecherous old soul in disguise, less overactive young puppy, thanks.

Edited by rozen
  • Love 6
Door

Door

(edited)

I was thinking that Ethan wolfed out this particular time because it was the full moon. He was basically both baiting and trapping the Pinkertons. Pretty genius, if you have the Wolfman card to play, imo. 

 

Yes, we all saw the Brona of Frankenstein thing coming but I believe we are supposed to - she's been a coughing skeleton since episode one. Her real arc begins, I hope, now that she'll be reborn and (likely) have much friction with Caliban and company. Lord knows Brona 1.0 would've had no time for all that florid monologuing, so I can only happily look forward to how resistant and fiery Bronenstein will be!

 

I can't decide if The Master will turn out to be sexy-version Dracula or the actual Devil. Either way, I'm in.

 

Also, I thought the priest was being very, very sage when speaking with Vanessa. He has experience; he has seen this before. If Vanessa doesn't want to be 100% normal then she's wasting his time. You can't kick out a demon if you kinda sorta enjoy some of the perks of possession (not the least of which may be a zinger of a martyr complex?). It's SUCH an interesting viewpoint and I look forward to them exploring the motif in season 2!

Edited by Door
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Advance35

Advance35

I liked it.  Not sure I loved it but I really did like.   I can say I just about LOVE all the characters, even the one's I don't Like.

 

I think Evelyn, pronounced "Eeevilyn" will be big trouble for our "hero's" next season.   She's "certain" she and Malcom will meet again?  I'm sure you are dear.

 

I was shocked that Victor murdered Brona (probably the only character in the story I don't care about).   I didn't expect him to show Caliban mercy, so that was very much a surprise.

 

I was worried about Vanessa when Mina grabbed her, I was relieved nothing happened to her, though I wasn't sure about Sir Malcom.   And the acting between Vanessa and Dorian really made me feel bad for both.   They are both very lonely people clearly, but where Vanessa would like genuine companionship if she can ever find it, Dorian just want's new, exilerating sensation, wherever he can find it.

 

Ethan is a wolfman and is being hunted by his father.   I'm more curious about his full backstory than ever and I like and find it interesting that out of everyone in the group he's the most trusting.   He has know idea what Victor did.

 

I also liked that they took the time to show us Vanessa offering her condolences to Ethan over Brona.   Ethan has always seemed especially fond of Vanessa and I wouldn't be against it if something happened between them at some point.   Ever since Vanessa asked him about the "woman" he was seeing and he told her  about Brona being sick and how her name means "Sadness" and Vanessa said "she'll live up to her name", just very understated and poignant.

 

It's just intrigueing how all of these characters truly do have something monsterous about them, especially the protagonist of this story.   "There's some THING, within us all" indeed.

  • Love 4
teddysmom

teddysmom

(edited)

I LOVED it!! But these types of stories are my very favorite. Mixing horror/fantasy with reality.  

 

Every time Dorian appears, I laugh and say "oh you little hipster doofus".   

 

So, we know if Brona becomes The Bride, and if she & Caliban take a stroll thru London, somebody is going to catch a glimpse of her and think he's lost his mind. And then again and again, and this should get real good. How does Victor keep the two of them away from Ethan, and not give away his terrible secret. 

 

The Possession episode is Eva Green's Emmy reel.  It will be her or Anna Gunn for Best Performance in a Drama. 

 

 

I think Evelyn, pronounced "Eeevilyn" will be big trouble for our "hero's" next season.   She's "certain" she and Malcom will meet again?  I'm sure you are dear.

 

I loved seeing Helen McCrory again.  Yes, she'll most definitely be back for S2.  

Edited by teddysmom
sjohnson

sjohnson

Ethan is the most deceptive one of the bunch. The funny thing is that it's only Dorian Gray who had a clue. He at least knew Ethan was lying all the time. What I'd like to know is, why don't Ives' superpowers let her in on the fact that Ethan's Natty Bumppo is just an act? 

 

On a more trivial note, I thought Ethan's Walk of Shame was so much more affecting than Ives' Walk of Shame. Was it because of the performance or because Ethan had more to be ashamed of?

GenieinTX

GenieinTX

Is Consumption a lung disease?  Maybe he had to replace that damaged part and that's why he had to cut her up?  (Yeah, it's just for scars).

 

Is it possible that Vanessa really is Malcolm's daughter?  He was shagging her mother.  Maybe that's why it was so easy for him to hate her, she was a manifest of his weakness?  Am I reading too much into this?

 

I like Dorian.  I've always liked the story of Dorian Gray in all it's various forms, but this actor in this role seems to really play up his vulnerable side.  Yes, he has everything and there are way more important ways he could be living his life, but Dorian Gray sees that picture and thinks that is all he can be.  That horrible man in the picture.  I watched all the episodes this weekend and I have to say - leather pants and open shirts, really?  Leather pants on a gentleman in Victorian London?  He looked damn good in them, but really show?

  • Love 4
teddysmom

teddysmom

 

Is it possible that Vanessa really is Malcolm's daughter?  He was shagging her mother.  Maybe that's why it was so easy for him to hate her, she was a manifest of his weakness?  Am I reading too much into this?

 

I never thought of that, but it's a great theory.  Good lord, were Sir Malcolm and her mother having an affair that lasted years?  They're quite the sneaky devils.  

 

Or maybe he meant that he "had" a daughter, once, but this abomination that Mina had become was no longer his daughter. 

Michell3

Michell3

 

Dr F finds a bride for Caliban - and proceeds to cut her open, I assume just so she can also be grotesquely scarred for eternity? 

 

My first thought after he killed her was, welp, he's gonna have to replace that hemorrhagic mess of a pair of lungs.  I just don't think he can fix that.  If this is true, does that mean he's going to have to murder yet ANOTHER person to replace her lungs?  Is this line of thinking too practical for a show like this?

 

Also, I thought the priest was being very, very sage when speaking with Vanessa. He has experience; he has seen this before. If Vanessa doesn't want to be 100% normal then she's wasting his time. You can't kick out a demon if you kinda sorta enjoy some of the perks of possession (not the least of which may be a zinger of a martyr complex?).

 

Great point!  I actually didn't understand it that way, but if that's what he meant, then it definitely makes sense that the priest said that.  The more I thought about it, it seemed like he was presenting her an option that may not be great, may not be the lesser of the two evils.  You can a) be possessed by a demon every few years and perhaps almost lose your life in the process, but in between be a special flower but unable to fully experience real romantic love OR b) set out on this long grueling process that may kill lots of people, including yourself, and it may take months to years, and it might not even work.  Huh.  I dunno.  

TiffanyNichelle

TiffanyNichelle

I don't mind that everything that happened at the end was pretty much called early in the season. I like that. Of course Brona is the Bride and Ethan is the Wolfman. I fear for Victor if Ethan finds out Victor killed Brona before he could say good-bye. The wrap up of Mina's part in the story felt a little anti-climatic. Sir Malcolm just shoots her? Ok, I guess. When the actors show in the morning they are sure going to be surprised. I don't like how we're supposed to now feel sympathy for Caliban. I still don't.

 

Dorian Gray's inclusion this season has been kind of pointless. I hope he does more next season.

 

BTW I'm still confused by the murders in the first couple of episodes. So was that Ethan that killed that family or the vampires? Was he the one to kill that prostitute?

 

Sir Malcolm getting his flirt on with "Kali" was funny. I do not trust her.

  • Love 1
paramitch

paramitch

I loved the finale, even if I didn't find it wholly satisfying and hope that next season's 10-episode arc will allow them to be richer and to explore more stories.

 

But it doesn't matter. I adored the entire season and love the show. More than any other show I've seen in ages, "Penny Dreadful" for me succeeds as this perfect confluence of atmosphere, actors, and story. I barely care about the plot, this show's acting, art direction, music, directing, etc., are all so gorgeous that I practically fall into a dream with each episode. I find the show incredibly mesmerizing even if it's not always dramatically successful for me and that held true for me with the finale.

 

I'm also a huge fan of storylines in which characters form alliances and offbeat family units or Scooby gangs, so that's another thing that I really enjoyed about PD this season, and I felt that was a lovely subtext to the finale with Vanessa, Malcolm, Ethan, Dr. F. all in mortal danger and yet risking themselves for one another and for Malcolm (and Mina). This same subtext was also present in the beautiful scene between Victor and Caliban -- for me, I was just glad (1) Caliban finally acknowledged what an ass he actually is, and (2) that Victor finally felt and showed some real emotion for the monster he had created. (This show is so interesting because while I have hated Caliban and his brutality around the Doctor's world, I've loved the Caliban we saw in the theatre, and cringed for him here, when he attempted to make himself beautiful for the ingenue.)

 

Victor is also the one Malcolm has tried to shield, as the sweet, weak boy who reminded him of his son. Interesting, then that Victor is perhaps far colder and more brutal than Ethan -- and in the end more ruthless? Ethan acts from his id, as an animal. Victor acts from the brain. So the family aspect of our little group also became all the more disturbing because of Victor's actions with the dying Brona -- the way he used the circumstances to lie to Ethan (and remove him from action) and then brutally to end poor Brona's life. Like others, I wondered why he killed her, unless it was simply to put the timetable of her death under his control (he gets the body, he gets to handle it all, instead of her dragging it out for hours more). But poor Brona. I'm interested to see what Billie will do with the Bride next season -- I love her work here and found Brona tragic, scrappy and lovable.

 

It's interesting -- in the beginning, I assumed Dorian would become a member of the Penny gang, yet he never quite did -- nor did he become an outright antagonist. I found him fascinating, especially if he isn't just an endless thrillseeker -- Dorian as someone seeking meaning in his life would be a stronger plotline for him next season, for instance. Meanwhile, Vanessa's delicate and formal social interactions with Dorian in this episode were one of my favorite things about this show. Here you have Dorian and Vanessa sedately and politely navigating Victorian social mores in a flower garden when in their previous encounter, she was carving him up during animalistic sex. So weird and yet I totally buy that this is the era in which they live.

 

Is it possible that Vanessa really is Malcolm's daughter?  He was shagging her mother.  Maybe that's why it was so easy for him to hate her, she was a manifest of his weakness?  Am I reading too much into this?

 

 

I haven't seen a single sign that Vanessa is actually Malcolm's daughter. Their parents were simply having an affair when she was in early adolescence -- I don't think that means they were also together 12-13 years before (besides the fact that I think the show has actually accounted for Malcolm's travels in throwaway comments that would pretty much negate this possibility).  And I'm biased because I would hate what this would do to Vanessa and Malcolm. I loved their moment in this episode precisely because of his realization that she had become a daughter to him, that her loyalty and bravery, her willingness to risk her physical and mental selves in sacrifice to Mina, had made her precious to him in her own right.

 

I loved Malcolm's final moments with Vanessa, his admission to her about his journey (the subtext also there about his rescue of Mina) and the absolutely heartbreaking way he broke down and she comforted him. I love those two as a manufactured family they have created for one another.

 

Meanwhile, for me the MVP of this season -- even beyond Green's superb work as Vanessa or Dalton's as Malcolm -- is Josh Hartnett, simply because I never even noticed the guy before except as a handsome cookie cutter Ben Affleck Jr. type during the 'Pearl Harbor' years. I never found him all that believable or affecting and yet here I thought he brought both delicacy, grace and emotion along with a gorgeous sense of physicality to his work as Ethan. I loved every acting choice Hartnett made here, and my favorite scenes for him actingwise included his evening with Dorian as well as the beautiful extended scene when the 'demon' took his face and attempted to seduce Vanessa again.

 

I also feel sorriest for Ethan, as it appears he is a victim -- a kind of Jekyll/Hyde character who has no control over what he becomes in his transformations, and who feels real sorrow afterward (even if we also saw that he allows himself to revel in the fierce joy of the transformation as well). There is such longing and pathos beneath the surface with Ethan (most notable in his genuine uncomplicated love for Brona, and in his moments within the group); I thought Hartnett was fantastic from first to last this season and can't wait to see what he brings to the character next season.

 

I was surprised by the episode's final scene, yet I found it dramatically satisfying, as well. I was so glad the priest seemed genuine and not another evil manifestation, and thought he had a good point in the end when it came to Vanessa's desire to rid herself of the demon. The way the show ended left me pleased, surprised, and wanting ten more episodes right away.

 

This show was easily the biggest surprise for me on TV this year, and I found it gorgeous, dreamlike and electrifying. I'm hoping we'll get a slightly bigger and better plot next season, but the Bride offers lots of potential for drama, pathos, love, hate, death, and more.

  • Love 14
teddysmom

teddysmom

paramitch I am right there with you.   I love everything about the show so much that the plot is secondary. Just get everyone together and let the fun begin.  One of my favorites is Caliban's eloquence. It's like listening to Shakespeare every time he speaks.  

 

And you're so right about feeling like you're in a dream while watching, and that makeshift families, the Penny gang (love that) or Scoobies, are the best.  

 

Cannot wait for the next season! 

  • Love 3
Bec

Bec

About Victor cutting up Brona's corpse - I would think he has to do something science-y and surgical to the organs, it's not like an unaltered corpse can come back to life with a simple jolt of lightning.

 

How does Victor keep the two of them away from Ethan, and not give away his terrible secret.

 

Didn't Caliban promise to go far away with his bride and never bother Victor again? Or was that only the book creature? Ethan has to find out for there to be drama, so yep, he's gonna find out somehow. Victor will probably find out Ethan can wolf-out at about the same time. Can't wait!

 

Victor doesn't really know Brona well enough to know her personality, so he has no idea what a spitfire he's bringing back from the dead (yep, I look forward to her giving them hell when she's reanimated). Though after the way Proteus started remembering his wife, you would think Victor would be wary that Brona will start remembering Ethan?

 

Caliban finally acknowledged what an ass he actually is

 

Yes! When he was like "it's not just how I look on the outside, the monster was in my soul all along!" I was like "no shit". That nudged me a little towards feeling for him, since it's the first time we've seen any sort of remorse from this character, but overall he is still way too "me me me" about everything. It's like nevermind that I assaulted Maude and murdered others, poor me, no one likes me and I have nowhere to go. It's like it's still just his own precious feelings that are important, other people's feelings are irrelevant.

 

Victor has times when he gets all emo and feels sorry for himself, too, but he doesn't make everything all about himself as much. Sometimes he can put himself aside for someone else's sake. He still hasn't gotten over Caliban murdering Van Helsing (I'm surprised he didn't also bring up the murder of Proteus), but Caliban's plight still moved him to tears (I might have went "awww..."). When he said "stay here", it wasn't in a tone you would use to order a dog to stay, it was gentle like "okay, you can crash here."

 

The reference to Paradise Lost was kind of interesting too. With Caliban putting Victor in the God role and himself in the Lucifer role. That does kind of describe their relationship to a tee!

  • Love 3
Dirtybubble

Dirtybubble

My first thought after he killed her was, welp, he's gonna have to replace that hemorrhagic mess of a pair of lungs.  I just don't think he can fix that.  If this is true, does that mean he's going to have to murder yet ANOTHER person to replace her lungs?  Is this line of thinking too practical for a show like this?

I was under the assumption that he was a grave robber, similar to the movies, or got the dead bodies other ways in the guise of medical purposes and simply stitched the parts together.  I seem to remember Proteus had stitching on his chest giving the indication that he had been sewn together.  I guess with Brona he can simply use another set of lungs from someone that has already passed.  Dr. F is alot of things but straight up murder just isn't one of them.

 

Is Consumption a lung disease?  Maybe he had to replace that damaged part and that's why he had to cut her up?  (Yeah, it's just for scars).

Yeah its Tuberculosis or T.B.  But having the scars does add to the creepiness of it all.

 

As far as Mina goes if she is a vampire then shooting her wouldn't actuall "kill" her would it?  Or was that bullet silver?  Maybe we'll see her (and her story line again).

 

 

 

TexasGal

TexasGal

About Victor cutting up Brona's corpse - I would think he has to do something science-y and surgical to the organs, it's not like an unaltered corpse can come back to life with a simple jolt of lightning.

 

I love this!  Science-y, not just lightning.  Why didn't I think of that?

 

Caliban having his Robert Smith circa 1985 moment with the make up was pretty amusing.  I'm glad he didn't kill the actress for laughing at him, because I was laughing at him too.

  • Love 1
Michell3

Michell3

 

I was under the assumption that he was a grave robber, similar to the movies, or got the dead bodies other ways in the guise of medical purposes and simply stitched the parts together.

 

Ah you're right.  Maybe I made assumptions about how far he would go to "get the girl"  when he was seen looking a little too long (longingly?) at a classroom full of very young ballerinas.

Neurochick

Neurochick

So who or what committed the gruesome murders in the first episodes? Was this Ethan as the Wolfman? Was this question ever answered? This plot point is the one still bugging me as it seems it was just dropped as the series proceeded more into the Vanessa story.

 

It was Ethan.  In the scene  when Ethan drinks absinthe with Dorian, several flashes go through his mind.  One of them was the prostitute with the apple in episode 2 (I think), the other were the bodies from episode one.  

 

I think Malcolm knew that he would have to kill Mina.  Sembene said that he wasn't so sure Malcolm could do what needed to be done.  I think when Malcolm saw Mina he realized that the person he was looking at wasn't his daughter, that his daughter was dead.  To me his pulling the trigger was like a reflex.

 

I thought it was interesting when Vanessa told Dorian she could not be with him anymore.  I think that for Vanessa sex, is somewhat of a weakness.  The first time she heard the demon's voice was right after she saw her mother having sex with Sir Malcolm; and was the demon inside of her when she had sex with Mina's fiancee?  It's almost like, for Vanessa, she can't think clearly when it comes to sex.  

 

I think that maybe Vanessa associates sex with evil.  I mean her first experience of sex (according to the show) was she saw her mother and Malcolm and that act was illicit because it was adultery.  And that affected Vanessa because she probably felt, "these people aren't who I think they are, not who they're pretending to be."  It's like if you believed something and then found out it was all a lie, maybe it's easy for evil to enter at that point because you're vulnerable to suggestion.  

  • Love 4
Michell3

Michell3

 

Is it possible that Vanessa really is Malcolm's daughter?  He was shagging her mother.  Maybe that's why it was so easy for him to hate her, she was a manifest of his weakness?  Am I reading too much into this?

 

I can't remember which episode it was in, but I swear Sir Malcolm said something along the lines of "you're the daughter I deserve" to Vanessa. For a long time I really thought that meant that they were father and daughter. Who knows.  There were a lot of places to get it on in secret in that ridiculous maze.  

ganesh

ganesh

Overall, not many surprises here, but the finale did remind me how rich all these characters are.

 

Yeah not every show has to have Twist Ending All Of a Sudden just because it's the end of the season. I figured the show would be fairly close ended since most UK shows are. I think ending with a cliffhanger in general is silly.

 

It seems he knows how to contact Ethan, so the "covert" Pinkertons made no sense. As did their actions. We need to be stealth, stealth like walking up to someone, buying them a beer, and handing the shackles we are carrying.

The Pinkertons were boss back in the day. That's how they were. Most of the time saying you were a Pinkerton resulted in "oh fuck, we're screwed now." The Pinkertons were basically bounty hunters with a lot of resources at their disposal. The dad new Ethan wasn't coming back of his own volition, so there's where the Pinkertons came in.

 

And the priest this week was a 180 from last week: willing to help and knowledgable but absolutely no bullshit that things are going to be HARD.

 

This was pretty awesome. There isn't much in the range of Priest Character On TV and this was different. 

 

A bisexual werewolf Marlboro man in London with a heart of gold and a face like Hartnett?  This show. 

 

And he *bottomed*. Dorian is going to be super hard when he finds out Ethan is a wolfman.

 

I'm not sure I understand why Victor had to kill Brona.

He told Ethan that it was only a matter of time. Mostly likely Victor would have left and Ethan would have stayed there with her, hours or days until she died. He probably wasn't going to be able to get at the body by then. He'd figured, "She's going to die, I'm here now anyway and I can take her out of here right now. Fuck it. I'll show those people at p.tv who has dainty man pain now."

 

I can't decide if The Master will turn out to be sexy-version Dracula or the actual Devil. Either way, I'm in. 

 

I think it's the Egypt demon. The show spent a good deal of time educating us on how there's never a picture of the Egypt demon and lady demon together. I hope it is. I'm a little over everything demonic on tv being the christian devil. There's lots more religions that have been around far longer and are more interesting. 

 

I understand it was because she had become a vampire but after all that time didn't they think this would have ended up being her fate?

I think Malcolm knew that he would have to kill Mina.  Sembene said that he wasn't so sure Malcolm could do what needed to be done.

I don't mind that everything that happened at the end was pretty much called early in the season.

 

And in the episode where Vanessa Fucks The Air at the end she said in her letter, "I love you enough to kill you." So the groundwork was there. 

 

We need to see that portrait. I'm calling that Vanessa is in it. And I hope Vanessa gets possessed again because batshit Eva Green is teh seks. 

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LittleIggy

LittleIggy

Those vampires sucked (pun intended). I have never seen vampires that were so easy to kill. Bullets? Seriously? Van Helsing said he drove a stake through his wife's heart and cut off her head to kill her so why did bullets and a sword work? And why did all of those female vamps have long straight white hair except Mina? They looked like those villains on Stargate Atlantis.

Michell3

Michell3

 

He told Ethan that it was only a matter of time. Mostly likely Victor would have left and Ethan would have stayed there with her, hours or days until she died. He probably wasn't going to be able to get at the body by then. He'd figured, "She's going to die, I'm here now anyway and I can take her out of here right now.

 

My thoughts exactly!  I love that thought process: "ugh, lemme just get this over with because i don't want to make another trip out here."  Kill her now, because logistics. Dr. F is delightfully F'd UP. I sort of hate/love him.  

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paramitch

paramitch

(edited)

Those vampires sucked (pun intended). I have never seen vampires that were so easy to kill. Bullets? Seriously? Van Helsing said he drove a stake through his wife's heart and cut off her head to kill her so why did bullets and a sword work? And why did all of those female vamps have long straight white hair except Mina? They looked like those villains on Stargate Atlantis.

 

I actually find it refreshing that the vamps on this show are relatively easy to kill. It's become a cliche that they are superpowered semi-unkillable modern monsters when actually, in the original Dracula, both Drac himself and the female vamps he created were not superhuman and had significant moments of human-sized mortality and weakness. The women (basically his nestlings like we see here) were young and fairly easy to kill, as were other young vamps in the book. I also didn't mind the sameness of the female nestlings because it's more disturbing to me -- the implication that when these women were turned, they lost all individuality and became a kind of swarm or hive mind of dead things.

 

The show's changes to the 'Dracula' motif -- meaning that the Penny Gang didn't actually need silver or stakes to kill the nestlings at least -- works for me because it brings everything back to a place that feels real. They may be supernatural but they are still alive (as was the poor boy they captured) and they can still die. So it works for me, especially as part of the fragile Victorian world in which they all live. Meanwhile, it did appear that they needed Malcolm's special silver stake to kill all the 'master' vamps this season, so again, that works for me.

 

I forgot to add that I really liked the surprise that Mina was actively complicit the entire time, and that she has been manipulating Vanessa and her father. I found it really interesting that (in a neat reversal of the Victorian trope) she never needed to be saved at all. She appears to have gone willingly to her own damnation.

 

Neurochick, I agree that Vanessa has a completely Victorian view on sex as something depraved and evil, and that it is a part of the dark side of herself. What I'd like to see next season is that she come to a healthier realization that, in effect, shuts that door as a weak point for the demon.

 

Addlepated: Evelyn pointing her revolver directly at Sir Malcolm as he exited the back room of the gun store... yeah, nothing good is going to come from her direction.

 

 

Wonderful observation! I didn't notice this at all, but did find there to be something sort of predatory and unsettling about her (and I love McRory so I hope she is back with the character next season). Speaking of which -- in reading several online recaps and discussions of the "Penny Dreadful" finale the past few days, I had no idea that Timothy Dalton was freaking seventy. The man looks fantastic -- I thought he was perhaps late-fifties myself. Damn.

 

I'm still conflicted over Dr. F, since I was hopeful for Victor to find the human companionship and connection he so obviously and desperately needs with his new makeshift 'family.' His sympathy for Caliban is a good thing in a momentary way, but a very bad thing when it comes to the big picture, as it feeds that little bit of madness he has, and nudged Victor in the one direction he didn't need to go. It will almost certainly lead to death, tragedy and sadness all around (which would make for a great second season though).

Edited by paramitch
  • Love 3
Dirtybubble

Dirtybubble

"She's going to die, I'm here now anyway and I can take her out of here right now.

I thought this as well.  It was almost a mercy killing so I can't really hate Dr. F too much.  I still would love to know how he plans on keeping this from Ethan.  Eventually Caliban is going to want to take his new bride outside and since everyone seems to run into everyone else in London....I don't know, maybe he was hoping that Caliban and Mrs. Caliban were just gonna ship off to another city?

 

All in all a terrific ending to a terrific season.  I must admit I shed a tear or two when Malcom and Vanessa were talking about putting up a Christmas tree this year.  It just spoke volumes of the mess they are in without slapping us, the viewing audience, across the face with it. 

 

Yeah the thing about Ethan being a werewolf was kinda a given but still the reveal was spectaular!  If just for a second it was still pretty scary.  I just thank beejeesus they didn't do that corny CGI wolf stuff like they do on True Blood.

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ganesh

ganesh

My thoughts exactly!  I love that thought process: "ugh, lemme just get this over with because i don't want to make another trip out here."  Kill her now, because logistics.

 

It's his dainty man pain. He can't *bear* to have to go back there in a day or two. And what if she dies during the night. He'd have to put on a coat and then probably find gloves because it's been snowing. Find a cab and if it's too late he'll have to walk at least a quarter of a mile before he could hail one. 

 

I actually find it refreshing that the vamps on this show are relatively easy to kill. It's become a cliche that they are superpowered semi-unkillable modern monsters when actually, in the original Dracula, both Drac himself and the female vamps he created were not superhuman and had significant moments of human-sized mortality and weakness.

 

For one, there's a lot of them, so the fight scenes have been legit. They can still only fire one bullet at a time too. In modern times, if there were vampires like that, someone with an AK47 could mow them down in like 2 minutes, so you have to make them harder to kill. True Blood isn't actually that bad because you can net them with silver and stake them, but it's still not that easy, but also not impossible. 

 

I agree that Vanessa has a completely Victorian view on sex as something depraved and evil, and that it is a part of the dark side of herself. What I'd like to see next season is that she come to a healthier realization that, in effect, shuts that door as a weak point for the demon.

 

I'll volunteer helping Vanessa to learn about sex in a healthy way. 

 

I don't know, maybe he was hoping that Caliban and Mrs. Caliban were just gonna ship off to another city?

 

He did say he was going to take the bride and then take off. But this being Brona, hilarity is going to ensue and I'm sure they'll stick around for a while. 

  • Love 2
Sakura12

Sakura12

I don't care if Brona returns to life, but I really hope her accent stays dead.

 

Yeah, I'm hoping she thinks she's English and learns to from Frankenstein and Caliban.

 

I liked this more than I thought I would. Even with Ethan being the American Werewolf in London and Brona being the Bride. That's what this show is about, all the monsters and literary characters from that time period working together. 

 

I'm wondering if it's Ethan's maker that was the one that killed those people in the beginning, since this show seems to be about the people that make you who you are. Although it would be more interesting if it was him and that's why he identified with Vanessa with having a monster inside. 

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Neurochick

Neurochick

 

I agree that Vanessa has a completely Victorian view on sex as something depraved and evil, and that it is a part of the dark side of herself. What I'd like to see next season is that she come to a healthier realization that, in effect, shuts that door as a weak point for the demon.

I think part of that reason was the way Vanessa was introduced to sex.  She saw her mother and her best friend's father going at it in the maze.  The sex itself wasn't evil, but the lying could have been.  She probably saw her mother and Sir Malcolm one way and then BAM, suddenly her illusions were shattered.  I think one of the reasons people turn to cults and things like that is because those illusions have been shattered and a person might feel, "well shit, if that's a lie then what else is a lie, and what is the truth?" 

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rungirl911

rungirl911

Thought the episode was pretty good.  Poor Dorian and his "is this crying....?" expression.  I am wondering too about the "daughter I deserve" and "I already have a daughter" if Vanessa IS Malcolm's daughter or not.   

So, Ethan must know that he is the Wolfman right? Why else sit in direct view of the moon and appear to know what is going to happen.  I hope he didn't kill everyone in the bar.

 

I thought it funny that Timothy Dalton played Pinkerton in the movie "American Outlaws".   It's really not that funny now that I am typing it, but that's what I thought at the time. 

sjohnson

sjohnson

(edited)

The Grand Guignol was also for a little humor, a light touch. It's kind of meta, but still. I don't think you have to be perfectly solemn to be serious. In fact a little comic relief is quite effective in horror. I have been a little puzzled as to why some people have said they thought the show should have a lighter touch. Can you really get any lighter than the dialogue in The Transformed Beast?

Edited by sjohnson
  • Love 2
iMonrey

iMonrey

Well I'm glad there was a measure of closure at least. They obviously hoped for a second season but ended the Mina story, more or less. The problem is I still don't fully understand the Mina story. She was married to Jonathan Harker (what happened to him?) and then was - what, kidnapped? Taken by The Master? I assume she was trying to lure Vanessa this whole time but why didn't she turn into one of those white-haired banshees like the other female vamps? Do all female vamps turn into white-haired banshees? Do all male vamps look like Nosferatu? In their attempt to include every monster in the book, they were a little short on the world-building.

 

 

Is it possible that Vanessa really is Malcolm's daughter?  He was shagging her mother.  Maybe that's why it was so easy for him to hate her, she was a manifest of his weakness?  Am I reading too much into this?

 

I wondered that as well, but not until after the fact. I took at face value the idea that Vanessa had become a daughter figure to him before I remembered he was having sex with Mrs. Ives. I'm not sure we were meant to be confused by that though.

 

 

A bisexual werewolf Marlboro man in London with a heart of gold and a face like Hartnett?

 

I don't think he is supposed to be bisexual. I think it's simply the allure of Mr. Gray is such that even straight men cannot resist him. That, and/or the fact that Ethan was feeling so badly about what happened with Brona that he thought he deserved a good ass-pounding.

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