S01.E08: Grand Guignol

[Michell3]

Prior to going into the theatre, Vanessa thanks Ethan for his kindness, and he says something like "was it a kindness?" and she basically replies "yeah let's say it was."  What did Ethan mean by "was it a kindness" to save her?  Meaning, maybe it would've been more kind to kill her, or maybe she'd be better off dead?  

[sjohnson]

Good question! I think he was wondering if it would have been more kind to kill her. But he was projecting some I think. It was his time of the month to get really moody.

[Michell3]

Also, are these vampires EVER awake? They're presumably asleep during the day. Then everyone goes looking for them at night and they're STILL asleep. So deeply asleep that the crew can go kicking around their nest, chat, shine lanterns in their faces (nope, this blonde isn't Mina either) and they still don't wake up. One could argue that the blondes can't wake up until the bald guy is up, but still. ..

I think the bald guy is just some middle management henchman, not Mina's maker or THE Dracula. If he was her maker, she would've died when the other blondes died. I think her maker is probably higher up on the ladder, perhaps Dracula, who is a good deal more appealing than baldy, to explain why she would leave Jonathan for him.

Also, I have no idea why they brought Victor along to the theatre. He's more dangerous to the living than the dead, given his one single experience with a gun.

[Bec]

Victor was actually useful in the big theatre fight though. I was surprised by that. If this was any other show he would predictably be the bumbling guy who fell through the trapdoor and got in trouble and the others have to help him. Instead Ethan was the one who bumbled. Hee.

 

I like how badass Sembene just jumped in the trapdoor after Ethan but Victor just went around and found the stairs.

 

And I'm not sure if Victor ran out of bullets or his gun jammed, but I love how he just started pistol-whipping the vampires. Dude was holding his own until all three of them down there were overwhelmed by sheer numbers, which is more than I would have expected out of our tiny little doctor.

 

They were pretty outnumbered by those blonde vampires, so if nothing else, Victor drew about a third of them away from Sembene and Ethan to give them all better odds of survival. Heehee.

[Meredith Quill]

I don't get why all the other female vamps were virtually identical after being turned but Mina stayed looking the same as before? #confused

[Michell3]

 

And I'm not sure if Victor ran out of bullets or his gun jammed, but I love how he just started pistol-whipping the vampires. Dude was holding his own until all three of them down there were overwhelmed by sheer numbers, which is more than I would have expected out of our tiny little doctor.

 

Oh, I don't know how I missed all of that!  Will have to rewatch. Maybe he did a little coke before he got to the theatre heh.

[anonymous360]

The only thing that was of interest to me this episode was the Dorian/Vanessa plot, which sadly only got too little screen time. I loved the little lovesick Dorian, my heart really went out for him when he was coming to realization of what it feels like to be the one doing the desiring. I just wish Vanessa would show her affections better. I really thought it was more than just sex for her, I can't believe she would be able to give him up so quickly? I don't know...I just wish we'd seen a little more struggle on her part. I understand why she would want to stay away, but it seemed to me that she was blaming him for what happened. It's not HIS fault you have a sex deprived demon inside you! And well, yes he clearly is hiding things but who in this show isn't? I might be biased here, but I'm rooting for much more Dorian next season.

 

I have to say I really don't get the Hartnett  hype. I mean he's alright, honestly not my favorite acting in the show...not my favorite acting period. His story is only marginally interesting to me and so far extremely confusing. And am I the only one who doesn't find him that cute? hmm...maybe there's something wrong with me but I honestly could not care less about his character.

 

On the other hand, totally jumping on the Caliban bandwagon for this episode; I just love how this corpse is so well spoken haha! Great actor. Admittedly Frankie went a bit cray by murdering Bronda, but honestly it was about freakin' time. I'm soooo over this love story with her and Ethan, I really don't get it! Anyway, that's just me...But it was good to see some sort of affection from the 'Creator', maybe he realized that his creature is just a reflection of his broken side. I mean we can all agree that Frankie is not a good man! 

 

Overall, for a finale it was rather disappointing: highly predictable. But, I still tuned in and can't wait for next season! :D

[Bec]

Oddly enough I see Victor as someone with a good heart. Maybe it's because original-recipe Victor was such a douchecanoe, the show's version is far better than my expectations. It seems obvious to us that it's a terrible idea to let Caliban live and make him a Brona-bride. That it would have been better to just kill Caliban and not to reanimate Brona. It sure would make Victor's life a whole lot easier. But he doesn't have as much hindsight as we do (from our years of watching TV and reading books. Hee).

 

He seemed conflicted the whole time on whether he was doing the right thing. So at least he's trying to do the right thing? It's not for his own gain that he made the decisions he did in this episode. Right now to him it seems kinder not to kill Caliban, it seems kinder to end dying Brona's suffering so that he can bring her back stronger than before. He is so obsessed with just life and death that he's blind when it comes to certain other things. Like how Brona might have a mind of her own when it comes to whether she wants to be Caliban's undead bride.

 

I suppose Brona could have also reminded Victor of his mother (no coincidence that the show made it so his mother had the exact same illness, right?), so this is almost like his mother is telling him she is afraid of dying and (in his warped mind) begging him to bring her back to life. How can he say no to that?

[Irishmaple]

I finally got to see the show last night and it was worth the wait.  I liked the way everything tied together in the end.  I'll never love the idea of Brona as the Bride rather than Maud but I did expect it so wasn't disappointed.

 

I think the monster in the first episode was Ethan because the screams from the bar in this one were numerous.  I think he was killing everyone.  The show unveiled Ethan's guilt very gradually and the final reveal was very well done.  Once he stretched out his arms and gripped the edges of the table, I knew it was coming and I was still on the edge of my seat.  He must be the family embarrassment.  No doubt his father told the Pinkertons to use the shackles before even talking to him but they took one look at him and thought they could handle the spoiled son of a wealthy man.  Poor choice on their parts.

 

I really liked Caliban and Maud all through the show.  He was so eager to be loved, and she enjoyed his attentions while offering genuine kindnesses.  She was a shallow little thing but I liked her for those kindnesses.  He read more into them than she wanted and I doubt she ever expected him to act on what he perceived as encouragement, but I don't think she ever played him.  I liked that he never blamed her for his behaviour, given the era in which he lived.  I've always been indifferent to Brona and would rather Maud be the Bride because of the connection already existing between herself and Caliban, but it was always going to be Brona so I'll just deal!  I really didn't know if Victor could shoot Caliban so I found that scene very tense.  Victor was still angry about van Helsing and rightly so; I didn't expect him to put his hand so comfortingly on Caliban's shoulder and I found that very moving. 

 

Vanessa, Sir Malcolm and Sembene have been psyching themselves up all season to kill Mina.  I don't think any of them really believed she could be saved.  Sir Malcolm had the strongest hope that she could, Vanessa was resolved to do what she had to do, and Sembene never seemed to doubt that Mina was a dead woman walking.  Timothy Dalton was freaking amazing in the episode.  The show has been Eva Green's from the start but he took this one for me.  Sir Malcolm is now responsible for the deaths of both of his biological children and Dalton sold the weight of that guilt.  His breakdown in Vanessa's arms cracked my cold little heart.

 

This show has been such an unexpected pleasure.  Next season, more Tarot please. 

[Michell3]

 

Like how Brona might have a mind of her own when it comes to whether she wants to be Caliban's undead bride.

 

Yes!  This!! It's awfully presumptuous of Caliban to just assume that whatever "bride" Dr. F pieces together for him will want to be romantically involved with him. Is he so desperately lonely that he's willing to overlook the major complication of free will because it's his only chance at avoiding what he sees as a life of unending romantic solitude?  I've also thought that Caliban seemed pretty sure that he was immortal and indestructible (he goes on and on about it in an earlier episode), but he's literally been stitched together from different parts...doesn't that actually make him more fragile than most humans? Does he not recall that he pretty handily ripped a large hole through his little bro with his bare hands (at least I don't recall there being a weapon)? Caliban has  really had the richest script of all the characters, I think.  Has his eloquence served to mask the possibility that maybe he's just not that bright?

[BuddhaBelly]

 

Yes!  This!! It's awfully presumptuous of Caliban to just assume that whatever "bride" Dr. F pieces together for him will want to be romantically involved with him.

 

I think he assumes the Bride will be like him: born new into the world and having to build her own persona. Caliban wasn't like Proteus. He never regained a memory of his former life so he probably doesn't think it can happen. He's probably looking forward to it.

 

I don't care, Caliban is one of my faves. I love the way he speaks. It's so flowery and so much like a character in a book would that I want him to speak always. For some reason, he's more redeemable that Victor for me. He knows that he's wrong but can't help but ache for companionship. There is something so human in that.

 

I know I termed Victor's behavior as dainty man pain but now I feel like he's been playing me false. What the hell with the dead, cold eyes when he euthanized Brona? That was a totally different person. Not the timid man who wants to prove his masculinity to bigger, stronger men. Not the impersonal doctor at work. That was pure ice. Color me intrigued. 

 

 

I've also thought that Caliban seemed pretty sure that he was immortal and indestructible

 

I assumed he attempted suicide and that's how he learned he was immortal. It makes sense to me in relation to the amount of pain/isolation he's experienced.

Edited July 8, 2014 by BuddhaBelly

[Michell3]

Overall, I go back and forth between finding Caliban and Dr. F, and really the whole crew, "good" or "evil," "i'm rooting for that guy" v. "you need to die now please." This is what I love about this show.  As rooted as it is in fantasy, the characters are surprisingly well-fleshed out, human, without being gimmicky or cliche (eg hooker with a heart of gold, serial killer who only kills bad people - sorry, Dex, your last 2 seasons, esp that finale (ugh) left a bad taste in my mouth).  All the characters oscillate between the horrible and sympathetic and noble and criminal, all villains and heroes from moment to moment, just like real people.  

 

Except Sembene.  He's just a BAMF until proven otherwise.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Michell3

[Bec]

I didn't expect him to put his hand so comfortingly on Caliban's shoulder and I found that very moving.

I liked that little moment, too. Victor is still not over his resentment of Caliban, but he still offers a bit of kindness despite of that. It's funny how the scene starts with "you can't stay here" and ended with "stay here". Ah, show's version of Victor is such a study in contrasts.

 

And Caliban's reaction to "stay here" was like "whaaaat?" He made the same confused/surprised face he did in that scene when he met Vincent and experienced human kindness for the first time.

 

I liked that he never blamed her for his behaviour

I think it marks the first time Caliban had any awareness of his own personality flaws instead of blaming it all on Victor's failure to make him handsome. Though he is still making it all about "Me! Me! Me! My feelings!" instead of worrying at all about how Maude might feel about being assaulted. That's a pattern with Caliban. He doesn't think about how other people feel, only how they make him feel.

 

What the hell with the dead, cold eyes when he euthanized Brona?

Yes, I'm intrigued by that, too. One minute he was all Dr. Gentle-Bedside-Manner, and as soon as she mentioned she's afraid of what waits for her on the other side, his face changed. I think that was the moment Victor decided he will reanimate Brona. I think he was struck by how pre-destined it seemed. Like it was "meant to be" that he just changed his mind about killing Caliban and here's the perfect bride - a woman who is dying but doesn't want to be dead.

 

I took that as his "determined face". There was a moment or two of "OMG what am I doing" mixed in there where it looked like Mr. Dainty Man Pain almost broke down sobbing, but then he kept his composure and finished off Brona.

 

It was almost like the same face little Victor made at his mother's funeral when he decided to start studying up on how to bring back the dead (er, I mean, "studying human anatomy").

 

Same determined face again when he put on his corpse-cutting apron and got to work in his lab later in the episode.

[BuddhaBelly]

 

That's a pattern with Caliban. He doesn't think about how other people feel, only how they make him feel.

 

He's never been taught to. Some people are selfish by nature and that's Sir Malcom to me. Caliban is on the other end. He doesn't think about how other people feel because he's always been on the receiving end of their ridicule and scorn. You can't feel empathy when you're used to people hurting you and that's all you've known. 

 

He doesn't understand how to read people. He doesn't understand how to read their intention unless it's violence. 

[Bec]

If lack of empathy is not part of Caliban's nature and it is "nurture" (or lack of it) that has produced this lack, I wonder what it will take to turn this around, or if it can be turned around at all. He has experienced kindness and empathy from Vincent, Maude, and now (in a surprising turn) Victor. It may not be fair to expect him to change already based on such recent developments, but I'm sure getting tired of the "me me me!" attitude already.

 

Maybe he'll be better in season 2. Or possibly worse. It could go either way.

[paramitch]

Irishmaple: I really liked Caliban and Maud all through the show.  He was so eager to be loved, and she enjoyed his attentions while offering genuine kindnesses.  She was a shallow little thing but I liked her for those kindnesses.  He read more into them than she wanted and I doubt she ever expected him to act on what he perceived as encouragement, but I don't think she ever played him.  I liked that he never blamed her for his behaviour, given the era in which he lived.

 

Oh, I just couldn't bring myself to like Maud! I wanted to.  Perhaps it was the actress's choices (or the writers' -- who knows?) -- but she came across to me as someone who was only a few steps into the setup of a cruel joke (and I thought it was telling that he did witness her mocking him with her lover). I never felt she was genuine, ever, what with all the face-touching and breathy confidences. She just came across to me as someone who was (at best) indulging in some private fantasy of herself as ministering to the beastly stagehand, or (at worst) who was quietly laughing at Caliban the whole time. There was too big a disconnect for me between her behavior and his (predictable) reactions to it.

 

Bec: That's a pattern with Caliban. He doesn't think about how other people feel, only how they make him feel.

 

I agree, but that also means we could be in for a really rich arc next season. I'm encouraged by this season -- I found him so maddening and potentially boring (despite the actor's beautiful voice and performance) then in the finale did truly feel for him and felt exhilarated by his newfound companionship with Victor and where he might go next storywise.

 

Irishmaple: I didn't expect him to put his hand so comfortingly on Caliban's shoulder and I found that very moving.

 

I found it very moving as well, and it was the moment I went from finding Caliban rather tiresome outside the theatre (I adored him inside it) to actively rooting for him to find love and peace. Victor also became far more interesting in that moment to me as well, as his abandonment did lead to everything that followed, and I found myself hoping his love and acceptance might help turn Caliban toward a gentler future. (I know, I know, but I can hope...)

 

Buddhabelly: I don't care, Caliban is one of my faves. I love the way he speaks. It's so flowery and so much like a character in a book would that I want him to speak always. For some reason, he's more redeemable that Victor for me. He knows that he's wrong but can't help but ache for companionship. There is something so human in that.

 

I think that Rory Kinnear (Caliban) is a marvelous actor, and his monologues this season were things of beauty, even if I found him rather tiresome and whiny when not within the bowels of the theatre. The interesting thing for me though is that I found Caliban rather handsome, if picturesquely damaged -- the only time he looked grotesque to me was when he tried to "pretty" himself up for Maud. (Which also kind of annoyed me, he's a theatre professional but he looked like he applied the makeup with a trowel in order to be deliberately grotesque). I'd totally date normal-Caliban, except for him being, you know, a murderous living/dead psycho. And I'd still probably save his beautiful flowery voicemails though anyway.

 

Irishmaple: Timothy Dalton was freaking amazing in the episode.  The show has been Eva Green's from the start but he took this one for me.  Sir Malcolm is now responsible for the deaths of both of his biological children and Dalton sold the weight of that guilt.  His breakdown in Vanessa's arms cracked my cold little heart.

 

 

I so agree with this. While I absolutely adored Eva Green, and was riveted by a Josh Hartnett I had never even imagined existed (thank you, show!), I do think that Dalton was one of the show's quiet MVPs. He brought such strength and complexity and weakness to Sir Malcolm that I always liked the character even when his inner conflicts and deviousness were revealed.

 

It's like there are two Sir Malcolms -- one is a ruthless egotist and opportunist who can abandon his own family, wife, and dying son (and near-familial loved ones like Vanessa) for his own ends, while the other side of himself cannot forgive those very same actions and lives in a constant state of guilt. The scene of Vanessa's big possession during the seance killed me, because of the pain and anguish in poor Sir Malcolm's face (and the entire moment was played by Dalton as if he endured it because that was what he deserved). Most male actors seem to play those scenes with an attempt at hiding their reactions, but the image of Dalton, sitting there watching Vanessa's possession, tears just streaming openly down his face, will stay with me for a long time.

 

Even his occasional rather staged cruelty to Vanessa simply echoed the culpability she already felt and did no harm (and deep down his little kindnesses to her I felt were richer, as when he covered her in sleep, etc.). And all this culminated so beautifully in the gorgeous moment when Sir Malcolm shot Mina and claimed Vanessa as the spiritual daughter she had become. It moved me enormously. The final moments when he wept in her arms were the denouement to me of that moment, but it was still lovely.

This show has been such an unexpected pleasure.  Next season, more Tarot please.

 

Agreed! And more everything. It's my favorite new show of the year by far, and its beauty and emotion and Gothic landscape resonated for me in ways so many other lauded new shows (FARGO, I'm looking at you) did not. I'm so delighted that it will be back next year, and with a longer season with which to explore these beautiful and damaged characters. (And hey, they won't have to waste anymore time looking for Mina!)

[ganesh]

I don't even care whether him and Ethan make any sense.

 

That's why it was so awesome.

[catrox14]

Finally watching this show...and holy crap. I legit NEVER expected Ethan to be werewolf. And I'm really sad about it! But that was a great reveal that had me literally shouting "What the fuck".

[millennium]

On 5/22/2016 at 9:59 PM, catrox14 said:

Finally watching this show...and holy crap. I legit NEVER expected Ethan to be werewolf. And I'm really sad about it! But that was a great reveal that had me literally shouting "What the fuck".

Fashionably late as always, thanks Netflix!   When Ethan approached the wolf at the zoo like it was a Golden Retriever, I had an inkling something was going on.

What a season.   The first episode dragged somewhat and I almost didn't watch episode 2, but the show's owned me ever since the Seance.   Even characters I didn't want to like (yup, you, Dorian Gray, you're just too damn precious -- and buy a comb, will you) have grown on me.

Some of the crosses these characters carry seem almost Shakespearean.

Eva Green and Timothy Dalton are great.   

But I watch with the melancholy of knowing the show has been cancelled.   And Season 3 isn't on Netflix yet.