S03.E13: Mayday

[alexvillage]

9 hours ago, chaifan said:

Did anyone else notice in the beginning sequence, it wasn't just women being herded into the truck - it looked to me like they were separating any handicapped/disabled women from the rest.  We saw a few older girls who had Down's, one woman had her walker kicked away and was struggling to stay upright.  This really shocked me, because as such a God fearing society I have a hard time believing that Gilead would just execute/send off to the Colonies anyone who is disabled.

Since disabled people are considered "unable to produce" - totalitarian regimes and capitalism focus or production as a synonym for worth - Gilead would definitely find a way to "mercifully killing" disabled people. Besides, the idea that disabled people will reproduce and create more disabled people still prevails, and that would not be acceptable.

The so called God Fearing societies/places are probably more likely to use the excuse of being merciful and sending their disabled member to "be with God". Nazi Germany claimed to be god faring too. They used disabled children to experiment with their gas chambers. They flat out called them "useless eaters" because they would not be able to help building the world they envisioned, and they would not accept an Aryan Nation with so-called "imperfections" but some parents did use that excuse to justify their giving up on the kids, or their continuing support for the regime, or to grief without looking like they are against the regime that supports their whiteness. "They are better off with god" works for the god fearing people.

[Trillian]

6 hours ago, Lemons said:

That charge was not believable, a claim from a vindictive husband that was just set up by his wife to go to jail the rest of his life.   They would take her in for questioning but arresting her on the word of a brutal liar was beyond bad soap opera writing. 

4 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Its as believable as Serena's word against his. Why should they be more inclined to believe Serena regarding Fred's crimes than believe Fred?

Regardless, her righteous indignation that Offred and Nick had a relationship was acknowledgment of the accusation. She didn't deny it, she justified it. The heifer 

Serena was an eyewitness - not to mention accomplice - in Fred’s crimes. There is no witness in Canada to Serena’s. Even Rita didn’t see anything other than Nick and June making googly eyes and that’s something that suggests their relationship was consensual rather than coerced.  Anything June may have told Rita, Moira or Emily is inadmissible hearsay (and we’ve seen nothing in the show to suggest she did tell them).  Serena could easily say that June snuck out and slept with Nick and that she, Serena, covered it up to protect June and there’s not a shred of evidence to contradict her. 

Or - she would have been cautioned as to her rights and afforded access to a lawyer who would have told her to keep her mouth shut and the authorities would’ve figured out on their own that they don’t have enough evidence even to charge her, let alone convict her. 

[Ashforth]

On 8/14/2019 at 1:04 AM, mamadrama said:

At one point I wanted to scream, "It's one word, June, one word! Say 'yes' and quit dragging this out!"

But she's acting! With her FACE! not words.

On 8/14/2019 at 2:04 AM, Mommaj said:

How many years has it been since Gilead was established? While Kiki/Rebecca was old enough to have remembered/recognized her father from pre-Gilead days, surely the younger kids would have no memory of their pre-Gilead families and were being taken away from the only homes and parents they knew--and yet not a peep out of any of them.

The children younger than 5 would be those birthed by Handmaids - they didn't have pre-Gilead families. What happens to them in Canada? Unless their Handmaid mothers make it out, they are essentially orphans at this point. It will be interesting to see whether/how the show deals with this.

On 8/14/2019 at 7:22 AM, kbw100273 said:

So isn't there a possibility June could be pregnant from that one ceremony she had with the Lawrence's ?  If so that may give her some wiggle room in Season 4 ?  Although I don't know how one baby will make up for 52 children.   Maybe since the head honcho commanders Waterford and Winslow are gone they will make Lawrence a higher-up again  ?    Season 4 should be interesting. 

It would not surprise me at all if June is pregnant and that saves her yet again.

The actors who play Lawrence and Rita both have new series coming up, so depending on shooting schedules they may not be available for significant participation in S4.

[violet and green]

Compared to the rest of the season, I really liked it  - minus all the weird soap boiling...why so much soap? the sheet-tearing before they knew they'd be needing those to mark their path through the woods, June's wearing of the white cap unnecessarily like a bloody beacon, the lack of tackling of that dumb Martha who ran off, and a handful or two of other things. But where was Nick? For the love of all that is holy, where was Nick???

I think season three would have been a hell of a lot better if it had been rooted in real plans to get Hannah out, foiled or  otherwise, and proper detailed cunning plotting of how to get a boatload of children out - rather than this last minute winging it nonsense. But there were numerous arty overhead shots to be made, loads of dreary dimly lit scenes at chez Lawrence, dramatic capital punishments for non-June characters' misdemeanors, and endless scenes of Serena being noble, changing her mind, angsting over the loss of 'her' baby, Luke being one-note and pointless, and June's giant face and roiling eyes, and no time to waste on actually plotting the damn season, so we got all that instead of a coherent storyline.

I guess six handmaids had to stay behind to carry old Mossy in a dramatic overhead shot, but that was dumb and frustrating, also. Get on the damn plane! And Super Moss should've done a fake death dive, not waited to be shot. Still, I did enjoy the return of some suspense in the woods near the end, and clenched my knees so tight hoping the children would get out that they are still hurting. And Rita got out, so there's that.

[kieyra]

7 minutes ago, violet and green said:

But there were numerous arty overhead shots to be made, loads of dreary dimly lit scenes at chez Lawrence, dramatic capital punishments for non-June characters' misdemeanors, and endless scenes of Serena being noble, changing her mind, angsting over the loss of 'her' baby, Luke being one-note and pointless, and June's giant face and roiling eyes, and no time to waste on actually plotting the damn season, so we got all that instead of a coherent storyline.

Quoted for truth.

[mamadrama]

Honestly, I didn't get all the soapy window stuff. They weren't getting there until after sunset...close the curtains.

[scrb]

What did they do with the soap?

I like how the spotlights on the Guardian cars panned like 20 feet above the women and girls wearing bright pink clothes.

And they’re too lazy to search on foot with bloodhounds?

In any event, we knew June can’t leave Gilead or else the show is pretty much over.  Plus, they had far more than the number of girls planned but not one of them was Hanna.

So as farfetched as it was, June had to take out the guardian after distracting him to allow the children to get on the plane.  But it gives her agency and you had this teary reunion in that hangar, a very touching moment — gave Emily something to do at least.

My guess is that they’re not ready to end the series for at least a couple more seasons so it will probably be hard to keep up this momentum, this sense that the story is moving forward after this triumphal moment of the girls being freed.

Kind of like last season, there will have to be more episodes of bleakness, as Gilead will probably become more repressive in reaction to this event, which follows right on the heels of the loss of Winslow and the capture of the Waterfords.

[Ariam]

I was posting this aptly titled Cosmo review in the June/Moss thread, but then realised it's a pretty good critique of the finale, so I'm posting more on it here instead. 

Dear God, 'The Handmaid's Tale' Needs to Come Up With a New Plot Twist

I was surprised that a source like cosmo actually had some good points of criticism towards June, her decisions mostly, but also the rest of the season and episode.

"Throughout the three seasons of The Handmaid's Tale, June has made some seriously dumb decisions. There was that one time she got a Martha killed, for example. There was that other time she tried to stab Serena Joy... in a hospital. And there was that OTHER time she got that family murdered because she stayed with them while plotting her escape. The girl has f*cked up a lot, leaving bodies in her wake as she goes."

They even have a little poll to ask how much we are annoyed with June 😄 

And as far as the season finale "I know June is attached to finding her daughter Hannah, and she thinks she can't leave Gilead without her. I get it. But this is literally the fourth time we have seen this same exact thing happen. Not only is it infuriating to watch June as a character make the same mistake over and over again, but it's annoying as a viewer to see the Handmaid's writers employ the same plot device for the fourth time. It's not so much of a twist anymore as it is a reason to groan."

Honestly, how can they expect people to be happy with them repeating the same story every season (and it just gets worse every time). I get it that they don't think she can escpe Gilead for the show to work, but then for goodness' sake stop making it look so easy to escape gilead that she can keep chosing to leave on the next plane!! It's like she's not even aware that she has a husband and daughter in Canada, and it's very unlikely for her to make it out alive after refusing to go several times (as the chances of dying should be going up). Blah. 

 

[Joana]

Also, I just realized that it's very convenient that apparently none of the Marthas of the June's gang's children were willing to cooperate, since Janine, Alma et al. all stayed behind. 

[Umbelina]

 I, for the most part, enjoyed the finale episode.  I may address the lead ups to this finale in the Plot Holes thread later, but for now, my overall quibbles with "Mayday."

There were so many little things that mattered, that should have been addressed, and would have made it much better, but were ignored.

1.  They needed more than a throw away comment from Lawrence about calling a Commander meeting "which should get rid of most of the security."  One more line would have probably helped so much, even something like "With Winslow and Waterford gone, the guards will nearly all be there for additional security and safety."

2. That Martha should not have escaped.  Ridiculous, but if she did want to leave, it should have been handled much differently, either catch her and tie her up, or kill her.  Letting her go ramped up the "unbelievable" factor to a 10.  WHY do that?

3.  Let some of those damn Marthas, or even better, a handmaid or 6 on that damn plane.  I get that we will need "Mayday" resistance going forward, but not only would that allow those remaining behind some deniability ("It was all them!) but why in hell wouldn't they be clamoring to escape their hell?  I get that they need Alma and Janine in Gilead...since most of our cast is now in Canada...but there were ways to do that.  Send the red shirts.  Or, in this case, red dresses.

4.  Why no mention of Alma's kid, or Janine's?  Janine staying behind perhaps so she can help get Charlotte out, since something went wrong there, or Alma saying goodbye to her son as he gets on the plane?  Make it more personal.

5.  Backpacks?  Really?  Where did they get 52 backpacks?  I get why the people, handmaid's, Martha's, and kids were in their regular clothes.  They don't have access to other clothes, or even fabrics in dark colors, they only had a week.  Yet, somehow, backpacks were available.

6.  I did love distracting the guard, but why no prep/discussion before hand.  Airports are huge, I can believe that only one guard was out patrolling that particular area of the fence, but it should have come up last week, or even in this episode.  "There is one guard at the tower, but he's one of us, so the 2 roving patrols will be here, and here, one on the east, and one along the southwest fence."  

The rest I can buy.  Revolution is messy, as is escaping, it rarely goes as planned.  So the buses became impossible and they improvised by going through the woods, OK so far.  I can buy June realizing she needs to distract that guard, and knowing she may die doing that, and being willing to do that to save those children.  I loved it when the other Handmaid's returned to help her, and them using their "stoning ceremony" job this way.

However, it's sad that with a few little changes this could have been so much better.  I mean, a line here or there would have made such a difference.  

There is also the question of June continuing to run until she got shot, which makes perfect sense, distract as long as possible, BUT, then she does the brilliant thing of forcing the guard to call an "all clear" before finishing him off.  Maybe she just came up with that in the moment, but it required TWO leaps of faith there.  First, that she wasn't killed, and second that when she shot the guard he didn't immediately die on her, and was still able to speak.  I'd rather it be one leap of faith, have her fake being shot, and get lucky with only severely wounding him.  Or even better, just use a very low voice and do the "all clear" herself.

We needed the additional peril of having June wounded with a gunshot going into the next season though...again, something I'd rather they'd avoided.  She's in enough damn peril, and stretching that credibility further is doing this show no favors.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Umbelina
clarity

[dmc]

6 hours ago, Trillian said:

Serena was an eyewitness - not to mention accomplice - in Fred’s crimes. There is no witness in Canada to Serena’s. Even Rita didn’t see anything other than Nick and June making googly eyes and that’s something that suggests their relationship was consensual rather than coerced.  Anything June may have told Rita, Moira or Emily is inadmissible hearsay (and we’ve seen nothing in the show to suggest she did tell them).  Serena could easily say that June snuck out and slept with Nick and that she, Serena, covered it up to protect June and there’s not a shred of evidence to contradict her. 

Or - she would have been cautioned as to her rights and afforded access to a lawyer who would have told her to keep her mouth shut and the authorities would’ve figured out on their own that they don’t have enough evidence even to charge her, let alone convict her. 

I mean Serena told Fred it wasn't his baby that was her mistake.  I don't see how him being a witness to her behavior is any less believable than the other way around.  This a woman willing to sacrifice her husband and her life for this child...so its seems credible to me that she engineered her birth.  So the question becomes if Serena knew this wasn't Fred's baby and she was under Gilead's control and had no choices, why not report it I mean that's Gilead law?

[chaifan]

2 hours ago, Ariam said:

And as far as the season finale "I know June is attached to finding her daughter Hannah, and she thinks she can't leave Gilead without her. I get it. But this is literally the fourth time we have seen this same exact thing happen. Not only is it infuriating to watch June as a character make the same mistake over and over again, but it's annoying as a viewer to see the Handmaid's writers employ the same plot device for the fourth time. It's not so much of a twist anymore as it is a reason to groan."

Honestly, how can they expect people to be happy with them repeating the same story every season (and it just gets worse every time). I get it that they don't think she can escpe Gilead for the show to work, but then for goodness' sake stop making it look so easy to escape gilead that she can keep chosing to leave on the next plane!! It's like she's not even aware that she has a husband and daughter in Canada, and it's very unlikely for her to make it out alive after refusing to go several times (as the chances of dying should be going up). Blah. 

 

My quibble with this is that this time June didn't decide to stay because of Hannah.  June went to distract the guard knowing that she would most likely die, or be captured, but it would allow the rest of the group to get on the plane.  She ran from the guard to give Janine & the rest the chance to go get on the plane.  Still, I get the criticism because it's the same end result - June almost escapes, but not quite.  But I give credit for changing the motivation at least.

I do love how someone pointed out above all the food/water they were packing away for a <5 mile hike & hour long plane ride! 

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, chaifan said:

My quibble with this is that this time June didn't decide to stay because of Hannah.  June went to distract the guard knowing that she would most likely die, or be captured, but it would allow the rest of the group to get on the plane.  She ran from the guard to give Janine & the rest the chance to go get on the plane.  Still, I get the criticism because it's the same end result - June almost escapes, but not quite.  But I give credit for changing the motivation at least.

I do love how someone pointed out above all the food/water they were packing away for a <5 mile hike & hour long plane ride! 

I can almost let that part go.  Escapes go wrong, get delayed, whatever.  What bothered me was all the backpacks!  Really, most of the kids probably ate at the Lawrence house, while waiting for their "midnight" time of departure.

Sure, prepare food and water, but why not have it carried by a few of the Martha's?  Let one carry a couple of bricks of cheese, another couple carry bread and fruit, and a bunch of them carry water?  The kids didn't need backpacks, and where the hell did they come from?

[go4luca]

8 hours ago, Ashforth said:

The actors who play Lawrence and Rita both have new series coming up, so depending on shooting schedules they may not be available for significant participation in S4.

Damn.  I very much enjoy both of them in their respective roles.  Hope S4 can work it out with their schedules.

What was Lawrence reading to all the children?  Wasn't expecting that scene and found it very touching.

Also - can anyone tell me what the closing song was?  Really liked it so want to look it up.

Edited August 15, 2019 by go4luca
typo

[kieyra]

12 minutes ago, go4luca said:

Damn.  I very much enjoy both of them in their respective roles.  Hope S4 can work it out their schedules.

What was Lawrence reading to all the children?  Wasn't expecting that scene and found it very touching.

Also - can anyone tell me what the closing song was?  Really liked it to want to look it up.

If you google Mazzy Star, I think it was their one hit song. Don’t know title off top of head. It gets used a LOT in movies and TV. It’s not quite Hallelujah but it’s not far off.

Edited August 15, 2019 by kieyra

[go4luca]

8 minutes ago, kieyra said:

If you google Mazzy Star, I think it was their one hit song. Don’t know title off top of head. It gets used a LOT in movies and TV. It’s not quite Hallelujah but it’s not far off.

Thank you! 

Found it.  Mazzy Star's Into Dust for anyone else interested.  Have it on Spotify now.  It's beautiful.

Edited August 15, 2019 by go4luca

[go4luca]

Oh and Serena?  Karma's an effing bitch.  Did you really think Holly would ever be yours?!

I don't think I'll ever be over Serena holding June down while Fred raped her at 8.5 months pregnant.

[LBS]

I enjoyed this finale despite all the flaws that have been already been written about here(my husband and I both yelled "take the f'n white bonnets off!" Seriously - that uniform infraction is the least of their worries).   I teared up when Rita kissed the ground and happily suspended belief that the father was in the triage area for the wise beyond her years kid.   My heart was in my throat when they were shepherding the kids through the forest even though I knew they were going to make it.   To be honest, I still get tense watching the Sound Of Music scene when they are hiding in the crypts despite seeing that movie 150 million times so I'm easily manipulated.  

I really hope next year they continue the plot development of the last 2 episodes for the entire season.  And hire better women writers,  And make June less smirky. And have continuity within said plot lines.   And I could continue for a while so I'll stop.  🙂 

Edited August 15, 2019 by LBS
grammar. Com'on LBS. Get it together

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, LBS said:

I enjoyed this finale despite all the flaws that have been already wrote about (my husband and I both yelled "take the f'n white bonnets off!" Seriously - that uniform infraction is the least of their worries).   I teared up when Rita kissed the ground and happily suspended belief that the father was in the triage area for the wise beyond her years kid.   My heart was in my throat when they were shepherding the kids through the forest even though I knew they were going to make it.   To be honest, I still get tense watching the Sound Of Music scene when they are hiding in the crypts despite seeing that movie 150 million times so I'm easily manipulated.  

I really hope next year they continue the plot development of the last 2 episodes for the entire season.  And hire better women writers,  And make June less smirky. And have continuity within said plot lines.   And I could continue for a while so I'll stop.  🙂 

Yes about those stupid white bonnets!  I should have put that in my earlier posts about easily fixed issues in this finale!

I bought the father being there though, I mean, word was out that a plane full of escapees was coming (don't know if they knew they were kids) so I would expect every single refugee with a friend, spouse, or kid still in Gilead to turn up.  I'm glad it was only one though...

Still, some of the other kids or Martha's might be reunited with friends and family that are not in that city, or who didn't get the word about the plane arriving.

[go4luca]

23 hours ago, kittykat said:

I thought the flashback was a very effective way to remind us that as annoyed and frustrated that we have been of June (in some cases rightfully so) that Gilead is a mysoginist, horrible, disgusting, totalitarian fart bucket and that this why despite our annoyances she is still on the right side of reason and morality and it's why we root for her.  I can't even imagine what happened to those poor disabled girls.  In the end 52+ kids and a few Marthas are safe.

...yes Rita got out!  RITA. GOT. OUT!

I did feel bad for Luke, that must have hurt not seeing Hannah on the plane.

I'm still wondering what was happening to the naked women through the doorway in the flash back scene.  Were they being tested to find out if they were still fertile?  I may have missed something.

Re: the number of kids that got out - I believe somewhere, someone said it ended up being 100 kids but although it appeared more showed up than planned, not sure I saw 100 kids.

Loved that Rita finally made it out.  If they ever have her testify about Serena, that's going to be all kinds of awkward since Rita said Serena was nice to her.

Watching Luke look for Hannah was hard to watch. 

[go4luca]

1 hour ago, go4luca said:

What was Lawrence reading to all the children?  Wasn't expecting that scene and found it very touching.

Lawdy, I'm quoting myself. 

Pretty sure Lawrence was reading Treasure Island to the kids.  Knew it sounded familiar.  Just took longer to percolate in my head bone since I'm running on fumes today.

[Umbelina]

I started a speculation/ideas thread HERE for those that want to talk about Handmaid's Tale going forward, but are trying to avoid major spoilers.

I hope when Lawrence said he was going to stay to "clean up his mess" it means he's going to become more active in trying to destroy Gilead.  

Anyway, rather than muddy up the episode thread with how in the hell they are going to go forward from this, I thought a speculation thread might be good.

[rubinia]

32 minutes ago, go4luca said:

Lawdy, I'm quoting myself. 

Pretty sure Lawrence was reading Treasure Island to the kids.  Knew it sounded familiar.  Just took longer to percolate in my head bone since I'm running on fumes today.

I thought Treasure Island too. He mentioned a character named "Silver" so it makes sense.

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, rubinia said:

I thought Treasure Island too. He mentioned a character named "Silver" so it makes sense.

That was a sweet scene, but didn't make much sense later when he implied he didn't like children.  Again, a pointless continuity or sense issue.

I still liked the scene though, they should have kept that, him calming/entertaining the kids, but left out the later comment.

[go4luca]

8 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

That was a sweet scene, but didn't make much sense later when he implied he didn't like children. 

I didn't believe he truly doesn't like children.  I think he was playing at being a gruff meanie.  His wife would have loved him reading Treasure Island to the children.

[charmed1]

Why did no one think to take the firearm from the dead guard? Better yet, why am I still watching this?

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 8/14/2019 at 11:46 AM, Ariam said:

I can't believe your 8 year old is brave enough watch this, mine is scared of disney animation villains 😄

Wow sometimes I find the show scary and have to hide my face and I'm in my 30s

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, kieyra said:

If you google Mazzy Star, I think it was their one hit song. Don’t know title off top of head. It gets used a LOT in movies and TV. It’s not quite Hallelujah but it’s not far off.

The big Mazzy Star song that's used in all the TV and movies is "Fade Into You."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fade_into_You

The song that was used for this episode is "Into Dust".

5 hours ago, go4luca said:

Thank you! 

Found it.  Mazzy Star's Into Dust for anyone else interested.  Have it on Spotify now.  It's beautiful.

You can try "Fade Into You" and "Flowers in December" as well.

For me it was way too much of a coincidence that Luke, Emily, and Moira were at the airport volunteering, and right at the same time that plane lands.  COME. ON.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[secnarf]

13 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

For me it was way too much of a coincidence that Luke, Emily, and Moira were at the airport volunteering, and right at the same time that plane lands.  COME. ON.

They knew the plane was coming. My assumption is that the pilot told air traffic control, who then communicated with the refugee program, Red Cross, government, etc. It seemed pretty clear from their dialogue before the plane arrived that they were aware it was a plane full of mostly children from Gilead.

[Ms Blue Jay]

So why were Moira and Luke so shocked when children arrived?

Edited August 16, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Anela]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The big Mazzy Star song that's used in all the TV and movies is "Fade Into You."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fade_into_You

The song that was used for this episode is "Into Dust".

You can try "Fade Into You" and "Flowers in December" as well.

For me it was way too much of a coincidence that Luke, Emily, and Moira were at the airport volunteering, and right at the same time that plane lands.  COME. ON.

Flowers in December, is my favourite. 

[tvisme]

As Moss led the children through the woods to escape, I definitely got "Sound Of Music" vibes.  All that was missing was a nun singing  "Climb Every Mountain!"

[lucindabelle]

6 hours ago, Umbelina said:

That was a sweet scene, but didn't make much sense later when he implied he didn't like children.  Again, a pointless continuity or sense issue.

I still liked the scene though, they should have kept that, him calming/entertaining the kids, but left out the later comment.

He was lying.

and June knew it.

not a bad lie but one of those modest/gruff lies everyone sees through, lies people say so they can protect their squishy hearts.

hes a natural dad. I loved that he could not look at her when he said goodbye and called her by her full  name.

[AllyB]

5 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

So why were Moira and Luke so shocked when children arrived?

My theory is that the pilot has a playful sense of drama, so he told the refugee program that he was carrying a large number of refugees but kept just how very many and the fact that it was mainly children a secret. He probably filmed Moira entering the aeroplane and the other volunteers as the children exited. The reaction video is now the most viral clip in the show's universe. He wasn't expecting the Kiki/Rebecca and father reunion scenes but that kind of gold has ensured him a luxurious retirement from youtube monetisation.

I also have a theory on the sandwich scenes. Last year Bruce Miller was taken aback by how critical viewers were about June's decision to hand NicHolly over to Emily without a thought for how a newborn would feed on the long treacherous road and foot journey to Canada. He didn't want to make the same mistake twice, so he made damn sure we knew that all of those older children had nutritious sandwiches and fruit to call their own on the short flight over the border. (This isn't actually snark, I have absolutely no doubt that this really is exactly why we spent so long on sandwiches.)

[dleighg]

On 8/14/2019 at 10:01 AM, BrindaWalsh said:

And shout out to Stone Harbor - the best shore town in NJ!

I noticed that too! We go there every summer and are headed there in 8 days. Can't wait!

On 8/14/2019 at 10:01 AM, BrindaWalsh said:

Speaking of that opening scene, seeing them separate those women with special needs literally made my stomach turn. 

oh yes. It was so fleeting but so obvious what was happening.

20 hours ago, violet and green said:

minus all the weird soap boiling...why so much soap?

I had the same thought! Like that's your priority????

[AllyB]

I have to confess that while everyone else was either moved by or rolling their eyes at Lawrence reading a story to the lot more than 52 kids and their accompanying the Marthas. I was thinking about how utterly, utterly stenchy that room would have been. When people are sitting around in nervous anticipation of a terrifying, life threatening journey they are utterly trapped into having now committed to, it tends to affect the bowel. That room would have been full of so very, very many truly eye-watering farts. It would have been grim.

[mamadrama]

13 hours ago, go4luca said:

Thank you! 

Found it.  Mazzy Star's Into Dust for anyone else interested.  Have it on Spotify now.  It's beautiful.

Also check out "Flowers in December." Beautiful orchestra arrangment and ethereal sound.

[mamadrama]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Wow sometimes I find the show scary and have to hide my face and I'm in my 30s

I write paranormal books and am invited to a lot of horror cons and scarefests. My kids have grown up around scary crap. Little one wants to be a special effects artist. 

[dleighg]

How freakin' convenient that they were less than 5 miles by walking to the airport, huh? And there were woods on the way?

[mamadrama]

12 hours ago, Umbelina said:

That was a sweet scene, but didn't make much sense later when he implied he didn't like children.  Again, a pointless continuity or sense issue.

I still liked the scene though, they should have kept that, him calming/entertaining the kids, but left out the later comment.

It made perfect sense to me. Dude is a sarcastic guy with a seemingly tough exterior, but inside he's sentimental and has a heart. I liked the comment because it seemed to be said in irony and both he and June knew it wasn't true.

FWIW, someone can both dislike kids in general in that they don't want them and don't care to be around them for long periods of time, yet still want to see them safe and taken care of. The two are not mutually exclusive. 

[alexvillage]

37 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

FWIW, someone can both dislike kids in general in that they don't want them and don't care to be around them for long periods of time, yet still want to see them safe and taken care of. The two are not mutually exclusive

Me.

[mamadrama]

5 minutes ago, alexvillage said:

Me.

Me too. I like MY kids, and some of their friends, but I've never been a kid person. I still wouldn't want them hanging around in a place where the girls are basically going to be turned into broodmares with the rights of a rock, though. I'd help if I could.

[alexvillage]

29 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Me too. I like MY kids, and some of their friends, but I've never been a kid person. I still wouldn't want them hanging around in a place where the girls are basically going to be turned into broodmares with the rights of a rock, though. I'd help if I could.

I never really wanted kids but I am totally ok having my nieces and my friends' kids for even a few days. All I need to know is that they will leave at some point, hopefully not too far in the future.

[PsychoDrone]

The writers have no idea what to do with this show.  It's one unbelievable event after another.  For the longest, it's been about how they can shock the viewer instead of telling a good story.  And, the ultimate in ridiculousness, and the jump-the-shark moment, was the wiring of handmaid's mouths shut.  There is no amount of sense that makes that act believable.  Didn't the original author say she pulled from history to include in her story?  Where has that type of punishment been enacted, where the person lives with it day after day, and not as a means to kill them?  Or, just as a means of punishment.

The scene with the Martha showing up early could have been very impactful.  That scene should have played out similar to Harriet Tubman, where she was willing to shoot/kill slaves that wanted to return.  Stopping the Martha was important so as not to ruin the grand plan.  But, of course, the Martha leaves unmolested, and the plan is UNAFFECTED in any way.  Did the Martha go back home?  Did she talk?  The episode should have ended with Gilead storming the commander's house because she gave up the plans.  No, let's handwave it away, the story must go on.

June's characterization is all over the place.  It's bad enough that her plot armor is so thick that NOTHING happens to her.  But, one minute, she's a "boss" telling the commander he isn't in control of his house.  The next, she is letting a Martha escape and pointing a gun in a kid's face that she is trying to save.  Ultimately, with the way Gilead is supposed to work, June should have been on the wall LONG ago.  Handmaid's are replaceable.  I'm sure Gilead would regret losing one, but not one that is so subversive.

The world building is an afterthought.  From reading posts, we would like to see the world's reactions to Gilead.  It seems Canada and America (Alaska and Hawaii) actions toward Gilead should have more impact.  It's funny to see Canada reps asking Waterford about Gilead workings.  Writers couldn't dwell on that too much since they don't have any idea how Gilead works or its current place in the world.

Ultimately, a horrible season and waste of time.  Won't be hard to find another show to fill the spot left by me not watching this anymore.

[mamadrama]

11 minutes ago, alexvillage said:

I never really wanted kids but I am totally ok having my nieces and my friends' kids for even a few days. All I need to know is that they will leave at some point, hopefully not too far in the future.

I wrote my first novel when my sister and her fam became homeless. We let her, her hsband, and their 4 kids stay with us for what was meant to be 2 weeks. Two weeks turned into 3 months. Along with our 2 kids, it was anarchy. I wound up having to lock myself in my office for peace and quiet. Eventually I got bored of the inteernet so I just wrote a book.

Re: soap 

I think they just wnted a sequence of the handmaids sneaking things to June and soap was the best they could come up with. In addition to just closing the curtains for the same effect, wouldn't a house with a bunch of lower level soapy windows look suspicious from the outside?

What luck that they drugged half the wives in town and nobody noticed...

[SuzieSioux]

On 8/15/2019 at 9:47 PM, alexvillage said:

The so called God Fearing societies/places are probably more likely to use the excuse of being merciful and sending their disabled member to "be with God".

Absolutely. I'm reminded of that saying: without religion, good people will do good and evil people will do evil, but for good people to do evil it requires religion.

16 hours ago, go4luca said:

The actors who play Lawrence and Rita both have new series coming up,

SBS Australia has a podcast on the show every week, which I only discovered a few days ago. I listened to one episode to see what it's like and they had an interview with Amanda Brugel and I really warmed to her. She is intelligent, knows her stuff re: the book, and was just a delight. I was so glad to see her character get safely to Canada and just to add: how perfectly did she act that moment when Rita realised she was standing on free ground? That was great! I do hope she appears next season.

1 hour ago, PsychoDrone said:

Did the Martha go back home?  Did she talk?

I thought, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, that they mentioned she had been discovered and arrested somewhere, but your point still stands anyway.

I did the same as others have said though, and switched my brain to entertainment only mode - no worrying about how much it makes sense, and I enjoyed the episode enough. I do agree with other posters though that while I want to see Serena punished, I was unsatisfied with the way it unfolded in this episode. Truello seemed a lot less smart and like he was playing people, and more like he was genuinely upset to find this out about Serena.

[mamadrama]

3 hours ago, SuzieSioux said:

I did the same as others have said though, and switched my brain to entertainment only mode - no worrying about how much it makes sense, and I enjoyed the episode enough. I do agree with other posters though that while I want to see Serena punished, I was unsatisfied with the way it unfolded in this episode. Truello seemed a lot less smart and like he was playing people, and more like he was genuinely upset to find this out about Serena.

So for the past few weeks people have been very defensive of Truello, saying NO he is NOT interested in Serena Joy and that he was basically just sucking up to her to get information. Playing both sides, more or less. Being nice to her by bringing clothes, newspapers, and food so that he could get information from her. Honestly? I don't think so. In a world where the scripts make sense and the writers have logic and nuance, that's EXACTLY what Truello would've been doing. Not so sure that's what was going on in THIS world, though. I think Truello may actually have had a thing for SJ and that he was genuinely shocked to find out that she'd committed her own crimes. In THIS world, June is the only smart person in the room. There's not enough for any more. 

I think saying that Truello was mind-gaming her is giving the writers too much credit. These are the same people who have said that Serena Joy has done awful things, but that people still root for her. WHAT people? What rocks are they digging these folks out from under? 

[PsychoDrone]

From interactions with Serena, I genuinely believe Truello saw Serena as much a victim as any other woman suffering under the Gilead regime.  He may have known the hierarchy, but didn't truly understand its implications.  Serena had clear evidence of her mistreatment with the missing pinky.  He would have approached her differently if he believed that she was as much a war criminal as her husband.  He certainly wouldn't have treated her with so much deference and worked so hard to allow Serena to see her "daughter".

Also, if Serena was freed, wouldn't she need to be in witness protection?  The moment it became known that she was walking around unsupervised, her life would be in immediate danger.  Similar to when Emily killed the commander's wife (Marisa Tomei) in the colonies, someone would kill Serena in Canada.  If not for Truello and the guard, Moira would have beat Serena's ass.  Plenty of refugee women would be happy to take their frustrations out on Serena if they could get their hands on her.  And, I include Rita in that list too.

Edited August 16, 2019 by PsychoDrone

[Umbelina]

38 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

So for the past few weeks people have been very defensive of Truello, saying NO he is NOT interested in Serena Joy and that he was basically just sucking up to her to get information. Playing both sides, more or less. Being nice to her by bringing clothes, newspapers, and food so that he could get information from her. Honestly? I don't think so. In a world where the scripts make sense and the writers have logic and nuance, that's EXACTLY what Truello would've been doing. Not so sure that's what was going on in THIS world, though. I think Truello may actually have had a thing for SJ and that he was genuinely shocked to find out that she'd committed her own crimes. In THIS world, June is the only smart person in the room. There's not enough for any more. 

I think saying that Truello was mind-gaming her is giving the writers too much credit. These are the same people who have said that Serena Joy has done awful things, but that people still root for her. WHAT people? What rocks are they digging these folks out from under? 

Yes, and I was one of them, if not the main one.  I still believed that somewhere in that writer's room, a person had a brain.

I completely agree with "giving the writers too much credit" and that decent writers would have had Spy Guy playing the hell out of Serena to use her as a tool to help defeat Gilead.  It was logical, she was famous, she helped create Gilead with her fame, her speeches, her books.  She would have been a useful tool for the remains of the USA to use.

Instead they make up some bullshit excuse to arrest her (that was the best they could come up with?) and blow the opportunity the USA could use.  Honest to God, they made Spy Guy look like a petulant idiot there!  Instead he should have been a cold eyed professional who cared about one thing only, getting his country back, and defeating those usurpers.  Good God!

He, in real life, wouldn't give a damn about Serena and her crimes, he wouldn't have cared if she personally killed a handmaid, not if she could help with the downfall of Gilead in ANY way.  For him to act like a shocked schoolgirl with a crush, instead of a man trying to save millions of people shows what an idiot Bruce Miller really is.

He only knows how to tell "micro" stories, and even those are not told well, and this is a perfect example of that.  Spy Guy IS the "macro" here, he is the only one we've known from the USA, he DOES represent the USA here, and no dude, when fighting for it's life the USA isn't going to care about suborning rape or pimping June out, when the fate of millions is at stake.  We barely punish or prosecute rapes in today's world.  COME ON!

The problem with Miller is that he obviously has no vision beyond his characters, and his character vision is mostly peril and plot armor.  In this case, he pandered to the audience a bit and gave us Serena's arrest.

At the expense of logic, and Spy Guy's intelligence.

GRRRRRR

Edited August 16, 2019 by Umbelina
clarity

[Ariam]

1 hour ago, PsychoDrone said:

  Similar to when Emily killed the commander's wife (Marisa Tomei) in the colonies, someone would kill Serena in Canada.  

Wait, was she Marisa Tomei? I didn’t recognise her at all. How old is she now? And most importantly, if she’s now old, how old am I??!! 😱