Season Two Talk

[Blakeston]

I can buy that people would come up to Sally after the show and say that she was amazing.

I don't really buy that people would actually think she was amazing. But people love to make a big show of how supportive they are in that kind of a situation.

The people from the agency being impressed by her (and it seemed like they truly were) was harder to swallow.

[meep.meep]

22 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And, last week, I saw it as a real person's legs in pants in the trunk.
This week, I don't think the cops would be so convinced of her murder by Gene or later the Chechens if there was no body.

I don't think that Gene would have been so totally devastated if there was no body.  He still had hope that she was out there somewhere - now he knows that she is really dead.

How did the bullet get on top of Esther?

[cpcathy]

It was her body in the trunk, for sure. I'm also surmising that Hank placed the bullet on top of Esther to get cred with the Chechen. Hank would have surely been whacked otherwise.

Edited May 21, 2019 by cpcathy

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I can buy that people would come up to Sally after the show and say that she was amazing.

I don't really buy that people would actually think she was amazing. But people love to make a big show of how supportive they are in that kind of a situation.

The people from the agency being impressed by her (and it seemed like they truly were) was harder to swallow.

I think the point we were meant to get is that the two guys from the agency (being guys, and therefore stupid about women, and also desperate to protect themselves from women) actually saw some amazing truth that wasn't there, while the woman agent (being a woman, and therefore smarter and more clear-eyed about women's truth) saw the lie that was there.

[scrb]

7 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I think the point we were meant to get is that the two guys from the agency (being guys, and therefore stupid about women, and also desperate to protect themselves from women) actually saw some amazing truth that wasn't there, while the woman agent (being a woman, and therefore smarter and more clear-eyed about women's truth) saw the lie that was there.

But other people came up to her too.

In the Inside the Episode they seemed to hint that Sally thinks she's a fraud but her little scene is a success so she's going to feel ambivalent about success vs. feeling it's undeserved.

[shapeshifter]

Is Sally's agent supposed to have an identical personality to Sally's?

[arc]

Sally’s agent knows what the scene was supposed to be, I think. And her class definitely knows what it was supposed to be. It’s a helluva betrayal in its own way that she inspired some of them to dig deep and get really real in their pieces and then she panicked and reverted to the fake version when the moment came.

I still don’t remotely believe a relatively junior agent (if she has the Mikes sit in on her meeting with Sally) has the pull to fill up a 400 seat theater on such short notice. I’ve seen much smaller theatres in LA where the reserved/industry seats go unfilled, and those shows had more legitimately on-the-verge talent performing than this class.

[scrb]

I don't think Gene could know Barry killed Janice or their relationship is over.

Then you go from the sardonic Gene to the angry, vengeful Gene.

Not only would that not be funny, it would kill the character.

So they're going to find some way next season for Gene to not believe that.

Now by the end of the series, he may learn it was Barry after all who killed her.

Didn't Barry also mow down a lot of gangsters at that stash house at the end of season 1 too.

Yes the body count is horrific.  Hard to keep up the comedic quotient when the main character can go into kill mode like that.

[littlecatsfeet]

I think if Gene is aware that Fuchs set him up (especially since he knows Fuchs used his cellphone to impersonate him), Barry can easily convince him that Fuchs is the true murderer. He would still be an angry, vengeful Gene though ☹️

Henry Winkler did such an outstanding job of conveying Gene's devastation at realizing that Janice is truly dead. Heck, even I had a glimmer of hope she might still be alive. But I doubt that body in the trunk is a red herring. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Yes the body count is horrific.  Hard to keep up the comedic quotient when the main character can go into kill mode like that.

This show is a "comedy" because it's Bill Hader, but, really, it's a drama with comic relief.

[Robert Lynch]

Henry Wrinkler and Bill Hader really shine in their roles.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Near the end there I thought I was back watching the latest John Wick movie. Holey cow, that plot armor was impressive. They're really going to have to up the ante for season three.

[lucindabelle]

I didn’t think Barry planted the pin. It just fell off as pins often do.

did he kill the Chechens so they wouldn’t deceive him ornwere they just in the way as he went to get Fuches?

revealing that it wasn’t ONLY Sally’s shallow male agents who loved the fantasy scene but nice old people and women who can relate. Maybe on some level they all understand it’s a collective fantasy together. That has its own reality.

i felt sorry for sally. She’s self absorbed but she did have the insight to rewrite her  scene and tell the truth.

gersh is one of the most powerful agencies in LA (NY too) I totally believed a junior agent could fill the house particularly if it were called a diversity showcase and people were scared NOT to go lol.

i did like that the kid who had said his father was abducted by aliens also told the truth.

Gene knows Barry burkman is Barry Block. But I doubt he will simply believe it next season. After all fuches set him up. Still he’ll wonder.

[shapeshifter]

9 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

did he kill the Chechens so they wouldn’t deceive him ornwere they just in the way as he went to get Fuches?

I assumed Barry killed the Chechens just because he was on a rampage, the same way he killed the householder back in Afghanistan. This show is tightly written, with Hader and Berg deliberately making call back to earlier scenes (as per interviews). 
But now that you mention it, maybe Gene will think Barry went on a rampage because the Chechens are now believed to have killed Janice. 
And with Fuches in cahoots with the Chechens, and also with Fuches having tried to pin it on Gene, it wouldn't be a stretch for Gene to conclude all on his own that Fuches was lying about Barry killing Janice.  
But, yeah:

15 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

Still he’ll wonder.

  
  

9 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

revealing that it wasn’t ONLY Sally’s shallow male agents who loved the fantasy scene but nice old people and women who can relate. Maybe on some level they all understand it’s a collective fantasy together. That has its own reality.

Thank you for putting my thoughts about this into comprehensible words, LOL.

[Milburn Stone]

8 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Irevealing that it wasn’t ONLY Sally’s shallow male agents who loved the fantasy scene but nice old people and women who can relate. Maybe on some level they all understand it’s a collective fantasy together. That has its own reality.

That is a valid interpretation--and it's obviously important to note as you did that the two male agents weren't the only ones who enthused over Sally. My interpretation of these same facts is a little different (not a lot but a little). I see the scene not as a compassionate honoring of people's need for collective fantasy, but as deadly savage satire on people's stupid need to believe, sheep-like, in whatever popular narrative carries the most virtue in any moment of the zeitgeist.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[Nordly Beaumont]

10 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

I didn’t think Barry planted the pin. It just fell off as pins often do.

Barry ran up to the open trunk, unseen by Gene, and jammed his hands in his pockets. Out of range of the camera he pulls one hand out, looks at it, thinks for a second, then jams his hand in the trunk and closes it. That's when he got the idea and planted the pin.

[cpcathy]

Yes, Barry was not wearing that pin, it wouldn’t have fallen off. He planted it to take suspicion off himself, and of course, it worked. Next season Gene just may be persuaded that the Chechens killed Janice.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, cpcathy said:

Yes, Barry was not wearing that pin, it wouldn’t have fallen off. He planted it to take suspicion off himself, and of course, it worked. Next season Gene just may be persuaded that the Chechens killed Janice.

And, just like I was one of the few fans who never stopped wanting Walter White on Breaking Bad to get away with everything, I want Barry to get away with Janice's murder. For one thing, it would be a call back to Gene repeatedly saying that Barry killed someone and got away with it—which is a really innovative spin on Chekhov's gun. But also, isn't Gene better off thinking Janice was killed by mobsters than his protogé?

I suppose we must consider if Barry might murder more innocent people to protect himself—or even just in a rage. But probably the only character Barry could kill that would anger the audience is NoHo Hank, and he is no innocent.

[juno]

Part of me is hoping that Barry is forced to take care of the little girl (feral mongoose) next season. I hope she keeps following him and starts living at his house. She was one of my favorite characters of this season.

[MJS]

On 5/20/2019 at 5:48 PM, arc said:

Oh, in that case the Barry-Gene relationship has to be irreparably damaged.

To be scrupulously fair, that’s not on Fuches. It’s ultimately because Barry murdered Janice.

Only if Gene believes Fuches. Fuches could be portrayed as a nut job, who was “obviously” working for the Chechans (since that’s where he was when Barry shot up the place). 

[drinkduff]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And, just like I was one of the few fans who never stopped wanting Walter White on Breaking Bad to get away with everything, I want Barry to get away with Janice's murder. For one thing, it would be a call back to Gene repeatedly saying that Barry killed someone and got away with it—which is a really innovative spin on Chekhov's gun. But also, isn't Gene better off thinking Janice was killed by mobsters than his protogé?

I suppose we must consider if Barry might murder more innocent people to protect himself—or even just in a rage. But probably the only character Barry could kill that would anger the audience is NoHo Hank, and he is no innocent.

I don't mind Barry continuing to get away with everything right now, because it means we get more show, but endgame I hope he either gets caught, turns himself in, or at least admits that he isn't truly on the path to becoming a better person if he is unwilling to face consequences for his actions.  He murdered Janice, knew Gene was suffering, yet still sought Gene out to absolve him of his guilt and tell him he could be a good person. If Gene finds out, definitively that Barry killed her, all of this will rip him apart even more. 

If what Barry said is true, that when he worked as a hitman, all the people he was killing were really bad guys, then more innocent people have died as a result of him trying to be a "good person" than when he was a hitman. 

[shapeshifter]

16 minutes ago, drinkduff said:

If Gene finds out, definitively that Barry killed her,

If Gene finds out--maybe in the series finale--that Barry killed Janice, Gene might kill Barry, thereby perpetuating the creation of murderers out of revenge (Barry having first killed "illegally" out of revenge). 

  
  

19 minutes ago, drinkduff said:

If what Barry said is true, that when he worked as a hitman, all the people he was killing were really bad guys, then more innocent people have died as a result of him trying to be a "good person" than when he was a hitman. 

Yes, I keep coming back to this point after watching each episode. I suppose it qualifies as ironic dark comedy. 

[scrb]

Endgame might be Barry runs away from all the people he's connected to.

Kind of like Dexter.

Not satisfying but maybe the viewers don't want to see him killed.

Like probably most didn't want to see Tony Soprano killed.

[arc]

On 5/25/2019 at 6:37 PM, MJS said:

Only if Gene believes Fuches. Fuches could be portrayed as a nut job, who was “obviously” working for the Chechans (since that’s where he was when Barry shot up the place). 

Yeah but Fuches escaped and no one still alive besides Hank and Cristobal knows he was there.

[shapeshifter]

26 minutes ago, arc said:

Yeah but Fuches escaped and no one still alive besides Hank and Cristobal knows he was there.

True.

Now I want to see (maybe from the perspective of Barry's imagination) Fuches morph into a cockroach like Jeff Goldblum's character morphed into a fly in The Fly.

[MJS]

6 hours ago, arc said:

Yeah but Fuches escaped and no one still alive besides Hank and Cristobal knows he was there.

I’m sure the police will investigate and they might find evidence of a Fuches- his fingerprints are in the system, for example, and they connect it to his tooth from before  

Gene is shown his mug shot or something and says “that’s the guy who led me to the body!”

[drinkduff]

On 5/26/2019 at 9:50 PM, arc said:

Yeah but Fuches escaped and no one still alive besides Hank and Cristobal knows he was there.

And also the 2 Chechens that helped Fuches escape.

  Does anyone but Hank know that it was Barry that shot up the place? I know Cristobal got a glimpse of him, but he doesn't know Barry. I'm wondering how the story will get spun. I doubt Hank will want to tell the new boss that his buddy came in and murdered almost everyone. 

It's going to be a long wait for season 3... 

[galaxychaser]

Alec Berg liked a few of my tweets. 

I cant wait for season 3.  How will Barry explain it all to Gene?

[tennisgurl]

On 5/26/2019 at 11:21 AM, scrb said:

Kind of like Dexter.

As long as Barry never expresses any interest in becoming a lumberjack, I can get behind him just running off and leaving everything behind 😉 

[Racj82]

On 5/15/2019 at 12:12 AM, cpcathy said:

The predicament of the show is that it’s not The Sopranos, meaning Sopranos could whack nearly any character they wanted. I don’t see them getting rid of Fuches, Gene, Barry (duh), or NoHo Hank. They are all integral to the show, Fuches being last on the list. I’m sure the show will find a way out of the predicament but if we get many more seasons, someone’s going to have to go eventually, or they are going to have to focus on the acting class and Barry’s acting jobs. 

That's not really accurate. Most people on the sopranos stayed on for the majority of the series. Out of everyone that started the series as regulars, one of them didn't make it to the final season. Sopranos routinely brought in people that would often get dispatched. They had their non killable characters just like any other show. Except for the last season where it didn't matter anymore.

[galaxychaser]

I think since Barry got a couple of emmys. The show might have a few more seasons. Fuchs and Gene won’t be murdered next season either.

[hicii]

Can anybody help me understand a plot point? I rewatched Season 1 and have questions about Chris’ death. 

So when he is talking to Barry in the car, he initially says he told his wife he was going to the gym and she was suspicious. He later says he told her he was meeting up with Barry. I assume this is an extension of Chris’ guilt as he confesses, even though it inevitably gets him killed....

I wonder why his death was not investigated? Surely the wife would have mentioned that he was an ex marine and his final moments were spent with Barry (Janice’s #1 suspect).

Then in the season finale, Janice searches for “Barry Block” on FB and recognises Chris on his tribute page.

My question is how could Janice know about Chris but not piece together his connection with Barry and Tyler earlier?

Apologies if it is a very obvious answer or if I’ve missed something!! 

I’m a huge fan. Bill Hader can do no wrong in my book 🥰

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, hicii said:

So when he is talking to Barry in the car, he initially says he told his wife he was going to the gym and she was suspicious. He later says he told her he was meeting up with Barry

No, actually Chris says:

Quote

I lied to her and I told her that I was I was going to the gym just now, but when I go back, she's gonna know. She's gonna know something is up, okay, and it's gonna come out. 

And Chris never returns.

ETA: But Chris did follow the above words with:

Quote

You know what? It's cool. I can keep quiet. I'm cool. And I-I didn't tell my wife you know, that that I was going to the gym. I told her that I was coming to see you.  I know you're not gonna do anything crazy, Barry. I know you're a good guy. [CAR DOOR CLOSES] So, I'm gonna I'm gonna drop you off. And then, I am I am gonna keep my fat trap shut. And then, you know, I promise you, - no one will ever know any - Wait, wait, wait! [GUNSHOT]

—which sounds to me like Chris did not really tell his wife he was meeting with Barry, especially in comparison to his earlier words.

So, what @Nordly Beaumont says below.

Edited June 18, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Nordly Beaumont]

3 hours ago, hicii said:

So when he is talking to Barry in the car, he initially says he told his wife he was going to the gym and she was suspicious. He later says he told her he was meeting up with Barry. I assume this is an extension of Chris’ guilt as he confesses, even though it inevitably gets him killed....

I wonder why his death was not investigated? Surely the wife would have mentioned that he was an ex marine and his final moments were spent with Barry (Janice’s #1 suspect).

Chris told his wife he was going to the gym. After Chris said that to Barry - Barry started telling Chris the truth about his job, about the killing. Chris realized he was in danger so he quickly changed his story and said he told his wife he was going to see Barry. It was Chris's attempt to make Barry think his wife knows where he is, so Barry better not do anything to him. But Barry is a clever killer and made it look like suicide by shooting Chris in the mouth and putting the gun in Chris's hand.

That scene is so chilling and so well acted. I think it's one of my favorites of the season.

I think Janice seeing Chris on Barry's FB page didn't mean much to her, it was the connection to Tyler (through Chris) that tipped her off. But I don't remember that part so well.

[hicii]

That makes sense now! Thank you, it was just one of those annoying details I couldn’t wrap my head around!

It was a fantastic scene, I love the build up of tension and similar to when Barry kills Janice, you can see the moment he gives them an “out”. Barry is genuinely remorseful at least for a moment about what he has to do. 

Bill Hader is just fantastic, he is so darn versatile! Can’t wait for season 3!!

[cpcathy]

That moment in Chris' car, you can see Barry turn, you can see him consider all his options, none of them good, and then decide what needs to be done. All in Hader's face. If I was him, that was the episode I would have submitted for an Emmy (he might have). The problem with the Emmy categories, is Barry is NOT a comedy. It's a half hour, mostly drama, with comedy thrown in. But because it's a half hour, it's in the comedy categories. I think there were only two actual true comedy performances last year in the Best Actor category.

Anthony Corrigan is hilarious and deserves a nomination for Best Supporting Actor in a Comedy, if that makes any sense.

[cpcathy]

I apologize, it's Carrigan, not Corrigan.

[Tachi Rocinante]

Binge-watched the last few episodes and I'm really struggling with my suspension of disbelief.

There is no way Fuches drives away after running into a cop car during an active police-involved shooting. 

The carnage in the finale was ridiculous, especially for the non-Chechens to sit there and wait for him to reload before getting shot.

I believe that really was Jay Roach.  Didn't watch the credits.

Since this has ties to PTSD and war, a very small part of me thinks this will end like Jacob's Ladder.

[marcee]

Seems to me the cops will think the carnage was the result of a gang war between the Chechens and the Bolivians over Heroin. I can't imagine Barry being seen as involved at all. And the cops don't even believe Fuches exist, so they wouldn't even know to be looking for him.

[Quickbeam]

I have a couple episodes to go but my real take away from the series so far is how watchable Henry Winkler is. He's just fantastic in this show. He navigates the character's genuine emotion to avarice is such a compelling way. Plus the theater class scenes are so awkward and on target they are spot on. 

[Quickbeam]

Finished with all the episodes. Loved the fact that the key audition requirement for Barry was being 6'2". 

[aradia22]

S2E1 I don't know... I feel like there are still remnants of season 1 Sally. She's self-centered and her dialogue still has that twist like how she wants Barry to open up to HER and listen to HER. And she is just barely putting in effort to schedule time with him. But I still feel like there was a big shift in the season 1 finale that isn't fully justified and it's only getting worse. It feels like she's more of a typical wife/girlfriend character whereas season 1 Sally would have already had a tantrum or broken up with Barry.

I think it's interesting that Barry wasn't just praised for his first kill but that he associates it with community and camaraderie. We've seen so much of him as a solo assassin, browbeaten by Fuches. But it's much more understandable for Barry to relish in a skill that brings him community and friendship... similar to the acting class now. To me that makes more sense than him pursuing money (which seemed more like a Fuches thing) or purpose (which is something Fuches claimed but obviously had stopped satisfying Barry by the start of season 1). 

At least right now it feels like a mistake to have killed Janice. It made sense. She was good enough at following the trail that it was hard to put off her finding out. And yet... I don't really care about her partner or the other detectives catching Barry.

[aradia22]

S2E2 I am very confused. What happened to Barry's dad? I assume he inspired his son to join the Marines. And from what we know, Fuches entered Barry's life after he finished his tour. And when Fuches said he made a promise to Barry's dad, it seemed to imply that Barry was older when his father passed. Fuches mentions seeing Barry for the first time as a child but we've never learned anything that suggests Fuches was a consistent part of his life. So when did Barry's dad pass? How can Barry say he hasn't had an adult male role model? 

Sally's talent level and appearance makes it lucky that she's booking work as "housewife, stepmother, and assistant." She's not cut out for anything better. It doesn't help that she's a charisma void. There are actresses who aren't bombshells who have the personality to be character actresses. Sally is not one of them.

I really liked Sally better before the season 1 finale when they seemed to think that giving her an abusive ex would be the sympathetic backstory to explain away all her character flaws. I liked the character flaws. Sure, she was annoying but she was annoying in a real way. This feels like a lazy way to make a shallow character sympathetic instead of trying to make her grow and change and earn sympathy.

OK. I was worried season 2 Fuches would be able to rope Barry back into hitman life. It's much more interesting for him to be trying to trap Barry. It makes the investigation into Barry more interesting as well to have a character we're more invested in on that side. 

[aradia22]

S2E3 I love that there's a translator when Hank could easily translate and all the guys speak English. I don't care if all the rival crime families make sense, I love NoHo Hank and I'm willing to let the writers pull all kinds of shenanigans to keep him alive and on the show.

What happened to Albert? 

OK, but in real life that was a mess. There needs to be some practice and communication before Barry pretends to choke Sally so she doesn't really get hurt. And she really shouldn't try to provoke him into it. It was blatantly unsafe, even for a unprofessional theater/acting class. Stage fights are choreographed. 

[aradia22]

S2E4 By giving her this backstory, Sally became a woman in peril so quickly. And I don't buy it. Even if there are some patterns her younger self followed that she finds it hard to break even now, I don't for a second believe that Sally would have turned away from the door because of her sympathy for Sam's dad. Little things like that don't ring true even if I want to go where the story is making Sally go. They're not consistent with everything else we know about her character. Sally is not empathetic.

I'm conflicted about all these wacky season 2 scenarios where Barry fails to shoot someone. Opening the door on Sally and Sam without either of them noticing was a little too much comedy blended into the drama. Also, I don't know that losing his ability to kill someone is the same as losing all of his instincts. He's just all over the place, not really going in with a plan or covering his tracks afterwards.

I don't know how I feel about Barry's story. On the one hand, sure it makes some things fall into place. On the other hand, it feels very simple. It feels a lot simpler to deal with the trauma of one moment than the cumulative issue of PTSD and being raised in a culture of violence. I hope that's not the direction they're going in.

Barry darting around so quickly like a cartoon joining Fuches on the balcony was confusing. It made me second guess whether the ending was real. 

It's insane that the reason Loach was pursuing Barry and pushing away his new partner is that he had a secret scheme to kill his wife's new boyfriend. And it goes back to the beginning when it was a joke that Loach was crying about breaking up with his wife. 

[aradia22]

S2E5 This is a recurring problem this season. Even if Barry isn't a killer anymore, why is he not researching his targets? Anyone with that many tae kwon do awards would have some record of that online. Also, he just yelled at the Chechen guy for not paying attention and he let Ronny wander around the apartment and turned his back to him. There was also no reason to talk about Loach and reveal that much information to Ronny. Why would he remove his mask so the daughter could see him? Then he wandered around in broad daylight covered in blood. It was so messy. It reminds me of the Chaos Killer storyline on iZombie except... worse. 

I think they thought it'd be funny for him to fight that feral child but it wasn't and I just kept worrying that he'd end up accidentally killing her too.

Maybe they felt like Barry needed to be punished for all his crimes but I didn't want to see him stuck with Fuches refusing to take him to a doctor. The first half of the episode with all the fights was awful. The half with Barry and Fuches falling apart was somehow worse. If Barry needed to be punished, I'd rather see him tortured by the Chechens than this and I hate torture porn. It just reminded me of those awful "raunchy" comedies they try to make every few years. You know... Let's Be Cops, Date Night, Keanu, Rough Night

I wanted to like it more as a Bill Hader written and directed episode but... nah. It just feels like, this is why creators need to hear "no" sometimes.

[aradia22]

S2E6 I appreciated that they showed us them talking about the stage combat prior to doing it this time.

Hader's face is so expressive. There's something so captivating about watching his face shift, like the moment after he shot Janice. I can't exactly call it subtle acting. It's like very communicative silent acting without outright mugging.

I liked that when we got the shift to Barry finally being able to act the part of Sam, it didn't mean that he started the scene at a 10. There was more menace to him from the start but it was quiet and it built.

And... I'm ready for Fuches to go away again.

[aradia22]

S2E7 I wish that we could hear more from maybe Natalie or Sasha. It's tough to have Sally be the mouthpiece of all these gendered issues because filtering them through the most unlikable female character on the show makes them feel more frivolous and shallow. They just feel like more aspects of her privileged self-centeredness even when they are valid concerns.

I'm torn because Mayrbeck should be the new leader but I love NoHo Hank. I don't want him written off the show.

I never thought Gene was in danger from Fuches. Fuches blusters but he's never really been shown as physically violent. He's bloodthirsty and callous but only when Barry is doing it for him. I was shocked when we heard Fuches' call to the police. I'm not sure it's great writing for me to keep thinking things are dream sequences or to be shocked at plot swerves. It's not that things should be telegraphed but I feel thrown by the direction and editing sometimes. It feels like we just leap somewhere and I have to reconcile it in hindsight. Like the feral child. 

[aradia22]

S2E8 It was interesting that Fuches didn't have the nerve to pull the trigger but I kind of wish that had played out instead of the cops showing up so quickly.

If Fuches has a special skill, it's being able to sneak into places. How did he get into the monastery?

They saved the garage sale story and... it was worth it.

I was really hoping someone from Cristobal and/or Esther's crew would just shut Fuches up. I'm so tired of him. There are other ways to put pressure on Barry for his crimes. And I feel like the exploration of his past is always being limited by tying it to Fuches. I want to know more about Albert. Or Barry's dad. Or what his childhood was like. 

I'd be down for Hank and Cristobal to actually be a couple in season 3.

I feel weird about how Sally's scene went. On the one hand, I get the point about her getting scared and jumping back to the comfortable lie instead of telling the truth. On the other hand, her slapping Barry and flipping the table and making him take her abuse in that scene without prior warning felt... not good. It made me feel sorry for Barry at a time when we should absolutely not be feeling sorry for Barry who is letting Gene sit in jail for a crime he committed. 

I hate that Barry went around shooting everyone who WASN'T Fuches. I'm frustrated that the show refuses to get rid of a character who has served his purpose. There's no reason for him to have plot armor. 

[aradia22]

Quote

I think TV shows have just been successful at getting viewers to identify with problematic characters, to say the least. [...] Barry probably can't pay for  what he's done.  Yet you want him to be able to make a go at his new life, to change his life around.

I'm torn. First of all, I don't think all shows are interested in redeeming their protagonists. They might try to keep them sympathetic and/or compelling but I think viewers like characters even acknowledging their bad behavior and not expecting them to change. I assume Tony Soprano, Walter White, Norman Bates, Hannibal Lecter, etc. fall in this category (those aren't shows I've watched). But then there are characters that flirt with redemption like Dr. Gregory House, Earl Hickey, most soap opera characters. The level of bad behavior differs but regardless, the show engages with moral questions. Can you earn redemption by doing good deeds and helping others? Can you truly change as a person? Do you deserve a second chance after serving out a prison sentence and undergoing some kind of rehabilitation to integrate you back into society? I think part of the issue is that unless it becomes a very different show, we're not gonig to see Barry confess and be judged and serve out a punishment/be properly rehabilitated anytme soon. So the show won't have to engage with those issues.  

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Wouldn't she have shown up by now? Is Barry holding her somewhere and sneaking off to feed her? He hit her on the head and she lost her memory? He scared her into leaving permanently? All of those options are pretty lame.

Me thinking of all the stupid shows I've watched that have used all those plotlines.