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Season Two Talk

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"If I suck balls, then you're the king of Suck Balls Mountain!"

"Well do you know any other assassins?"

Chechens say the darnedest things.

("suck balls" line was improvised by Anthony Carrigan.  Then the other guy picked up on it.  Lines were originally "my guys are shit" and "you're the king of Shit Mountain", but Hader and the show creator cracked up at "suck balls" and said "okay that's the line")

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On 4/12/2019 at 8:48 PM, endure said:

I seem to recall we heard a shot so I assumed he shot her.  As for getting rid of he body i would guess he put her in the lake or under a wharf maybe....it’s hard to know how much time he had.

I don't think we heard a shot.  Shooting that close to the cabin would have woken up both Gene and Sally.  What we saw was flashes of light as guns were fired.  Presumably both Barry and Janice had silencers on their weapons.  I've always assumed that he dumped her body in the lake.  It's the only way he could have gotten back in bed so quickly.

Is Sally  still married to Sam?  

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3 hours ago, meep.meep said:

I don't think we heard a shot.  Shooting that close to the cabin would have woken up both Gene and Sally.  What we saw was flashes of light as guns were fired.  Presumably both Barry and Janice had silencers on their weapons.  I've always assumed that he dumped her body in the lake.  It's the only way he could have gotten back in bed so quickly.

Is Sally  still married to Sam?  

I do recall a flash of light too when the gun went off, the sound of the shot was muffled but was heard in Sally's room, even though it didn't wake her up she somewhat unconsciously responded to the noise of the gunfire.

Edited by endure

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2 hours ago, endure said:

I do recall a flash of light too when the gun went off, the sound of the shot was muffled but was heard in Sally's room, even though it didn't wake her up she somewhat unconsciously responded to the noise of the gunfire.

Maybe Janice was wearing a bullet-proof vest and only got knocked into the lake?

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My take:

Barry killed Janice.

He hid her body somewhere and dumped the car (cop said something about the Chechnyans driving her off the property in her car, when they were telling Gene the case is cold). 

No body means Gene has a sliver of hope that she's alive

So he's begging the cops to look for her (his comment about her being cold and hungry in the woods). 

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There’s no way Barry didn’t at least try to kill Janice, and believes he succeeded. (And personally, I’d just go with the simple answer that she’s really dead.) Otherwise, the “Starting… now!” thing he said as he crept back to bed with Sally makes less sense.

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S2.E4: What?!

Quote

Barry's patience is put to the test when a figure from Sally's past arrives in LA. Gene gets a pleasant surprise and encourages Barry to believe that change is possible.

Promo:

Original air date: 4/21/19

 

Alec Berg, co-creator of Barry, talks through how he drew inspiration from a wild acting class:

 

Anthony Carrigan discusses S2 of Barry:

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Wow, there was almost no funny moments in this episode until Barry goes “What!?!” At the end.

Very affecting though, Barry’s secret and how he’s tortured by the event and how he sees a tendency to go to defcon 9.

Gene gets to play father to his previously estranged son and now Barry too?

Of course what Barry needs is heavy therapy.

I knew the sad sack detective was going to want Barry to take out his ex-wife’s boyfriend.  But Barry’s going to endanger himself by not doing it.  Even if he makes the detective satisfied, the other female detective may become a problem, so Barry is always going to be looking over his shoulder.

Edited by scrb
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I frickin love this show! 😍

1 hour ago, scrb said:

I knew the sad sack detective was going to want Barry to take out his ex-wife’s boyfriend

 I am so glad I did not see that coming. Not any of it. I guess I should have — including Barry going all My Lai massacre in Faluja —but I didn't. When Barry was confronted by Janice's partner, at first I kept thinking Barry was going to get the gun away from him and shoot him like we'd seen him do before. But he didn't. And then the detective really lost focus and made it so easy for Barry to do. But he didn't. And then the frickin' "What!?!" bit. Wow. As NoHo Hank would say, "So great," but as when NoHo says it, it really doesn't mean anything. Still. So. Great.

BTW, did we love NoHo Hank's get up? With the floppy hat and the scarf and the sunblock? OMG. I just realized that's what I was wearing this week on my walks. Except my sunblock isn't so opaque, heh. NoHo is such a little old lady.

So even Fuches decides to turn over a new leaf this week. Huh.

Now I really want Janice to come back from the dead with amnesia. 

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18 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I frickin love this show! 😍

 I am so glad I did not see that coming. Not any of it. I guess I should have — including Barry going all My Lai massacre in Faluja —but I didn't. When Barry was confronted by Janice's partner, at first I kept thinking Barry was going to get the gun away from him and shoot him like we'd seen him do before. But he didn't. And then the detective really lost focus and made it so easy for Barry to do. But he didn't. And then the frickin' "What!?!" bit. Wow. As NoHo Hank would say, "So great," but as when NoHo says it, it really doesn't mean anything. Still. So. Great.

BTW, did we love NoHo Hank's get up? With the floppy hat and the scarf and the sunblock? OMG. I just realized that's what I was wearing this week on my walks. Except my sunblock isn't so opaque, heh. NoHo is such a little old lady.

So even Fuches decides to turn over a new leaf this week. Huh.

Now I really want Janice to come back from the dead with amnesia. 

NoHo Hank's getup was giving me The Island of Dr. Munreau vibes.

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Surprisingly, the idea that Loach was hunting down Barry to make him kill his ex's boyfriend never even occurred to me.  I definitely got the sense everything was "off the books", but I figured he was going to try and take justice into his own hands, and kill Barry for what he did to Janice.  Definitely curious to see how this all goes down.  I'm also surprised Fuches actually was trying to protect Barry at the end.  I wonder if Barry will even believe it.

The Barry/Gene was fantastic and perfectly acted by Bill Hader and Henry Winkler.

Not a huge fan of Sally's, but I felt for her here and I thought Sarah Goldberg did a great job with all of it.

While only in one scene this time, NoHo Hank still made the most of it with that epic outfit!  And him bitching about how their ice cream machine no longer have Rocky Road anymore, since Cristobal switched it to Cookie Dough for Esther.  Poor NoHo!

I always love the little bits with the acting trope, like the one guy wanting to use his dad being abducted by aliens as his story or Natalie, Sasha, and the two other guys planning some extravagant thing that is going to involve a toilet and fake vomit! 

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7 hours ago, scrb said:

Wow, there was almost no funny moments in this episode until Barry goes “What!?!” At the end.

There was also the moment after their heart-to-heart where Gene said he'd bill Barry for it as a private class. And Loach's awful handwriting.

Sam is a really awful abusive monster. He may not have killed anyone yet, but I think he's as fundamentally sociopathic as Fuches or Barry.

Fun little structural thing: the first spoken words of the episode (after Barry's rage-induced inability to hear anything subsided)  were "I'm sorry, what?" and then of course the last word of the episode was "What?!", which was also the episode title.

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3 hours ago, arc said:
11 hours ago, scrb said:

Wow, there was almost no funny moments in this episode until Barry goes “What!?!” At the end.

There was also the moment after their heart-to-heart where Gene said he'd bill Barry for it as a private class. And Loach's awful handwriting.

Every funny bit seems to give me pause--waiting for the other shoe to violently drop.
It's funny that Gene says he's billing Barry for "a private lesson," but could this turn into defacto blackmail?
And I kept wondering if Loach's illegible handwriting would result in Barry going to the wrong location or some other serious mishap (not necessarily a bad thing for Barry) would occur because of miscommunication through Loach's penmanship. 
I guess Loach is dyslexic or something? It was an odd bit because it was totally illegible.

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I can't stand Sally, so I didn't want to feel sorry for her.

Such a great ending. Our jaws were dropped in my household. Can't wait to see what happens. Barry should definitely go through with it this time for his own sake.

Gene charged Barry for a private lesson! So cheap!

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Oh that's what he meant by a private lesson.

Probably costs less than a therapist.  Wonder if Barry ever told anyone about his My Lai massacre moment.  If not, probably good to get it off his chest.

But he really needs to go to a professional.  However, that wouldn't be funny or poignant.

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How good is this show? I've always adored Bill Hader, crazy talented and funny and he is so damn good in this role. Henry Winkler is a revelation. I am just tickled to see him on tv and with such a fun role.

Totally blindsided by the detective's true goal. I really thought he was gonna arrest Barry. Well played show.

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I laughed so hard at the ending this week I was literally choking, that was wonderful.  This is my favorite comedy. I love that it is "tight" and only 30 minutes, it's quirky, intelligent and above all FUNNY!   

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On 4/18/2019 at 10:39 AM, kay1864 said:

"If I suck balls, then you're the king of Suck Balls Mountain!"

"Well do you know any other assassins?"

Chechens say the darnedest things.

("suck balls" line was improvised by Anthony Carrigan.  Then the other guy picked up on it.  Lines were originally "my guys are shit" and "you're the king of Shit Mountain", but Hader and the show creator cracked up at "suck balls" and said "okay that's the line")

I had to rewind because I could not stop laughing at 'king of Suck Balls Mountain'. 😂

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Loach's handwriting had me LMAO.

Barry giving Hank the once over in that getup was hilarious. 

Cousineau is such an ass for billing Barry a private lesson.

I did NOT see that ending coming.

Edited to add that HBO is doing a piss poor job of scheduling Barry and Veep properly.  My PVR is cutting one of them off in some way every week.

Edited by aemom · Reason: Forgot something
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How is that Barry, a deeply unstable murderer, still somehow so often comes across as the only normal person in any room he enters? I literally yelled "WHAT?!" the exact same time that Barry did in the exact same tone! I did not see that coming at all, I had no clue how Barry was getting out of this, except for killing the cop, but no way did I see him getting out of this in this way! 

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One of my least favorite tropes is "person insists on saying something damning, despite someone else making it painfully obvious that they should stop talking." So the last scene didn't work for me as well as it did for a lot of other people.

(Plus, Barry has extraordinary observational/self-preservation skills, right? No matter how excited he was by Gene's pep talk, he would have realized that something was amiss in that scenario.)

And speaking of poor self-preservation skills - man oh man was Sally an idiot for getting into the hotel room alone with her evil ex. I thought she was seizing the opportunity to finally tell him off, like she wishes she'd done when she left him - but she didn't even do that. Just terrible decision-making all around.

Loved Loach's handwriting, though. And Gene actually following through on his promise not to look at Barry any differently after hearing the true story (even though he charged him for it). Classic!

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1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

man oh man was Sally an idiot for getting into the hotel room alone with her evil ex.

On most any other show Sally closing herself in a room with her Strangler ex would be crappy writing.
On this one it's kind of a farce made up out of a horror flick trope.

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On 4/22/2019 at 6:25 AM, arc said:

Fun little structural thing: the first spoken words of the episode (after Barry's rage-induced inability to hear anything subsided)  were "I'm sorry, what?" and then of course the last word of the episode was "What?!", which was also the episode title.

In the words of NoHo Hank last season, "Little 'what' leads to big 'what' for full effect."

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On 4/22/2019 at 3:33 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I always love the little bits with the acting trope, like the one guy wanting to use his dad being abducted by aliens as his story

I thought they were going to tie into People of Earth there, and that guy was somehow the son of Wyatt Cenak's character. I 'm not aware of the two shows being connected, but the vibe *is* similar. Hank and the Chechnans are a lot like the alien group that was kidnapping humans.

On 4/22/2019 at 5:25 AM, arc said:

Sam is a really awful abusive monster. He may not have killed anyone yet, but I think he's as fundamentally sociopathic as Fuches or Barry.

I think the depiction of Sam was really nuanced and well done. Some of the time he seemed like a normal guy with a kid and the usual life worries. Then you see him under pressure, and scary stuff starts to leak out around the edges. Sam didn't appeared to be a monster on the show, and we know Sally's account of their relationship is not accurate, but also, we saw enough of Sam to realize he *could* have been as bad as Sally says, despite her exaggerations and need to overcompensate and feel like a hero in her story.

On 4/23/2019 at 12:49 AM, tennisgurl said:

I literally yelled "WHAT?!" the exact same time that Barry did in the exact same tone! I did not see that coming at all, I had no clue how Barry was getting out of this, except for killing the cop, but no way did I see him getting out of this in this way! 

I didn't even remember anything about the cop's wife having an affair, so it wasn't in my mind. But as soon as the cop began to waver and talk to himself, I knew an alternate solution was coming. At first I thought he might have been mentally ill, and my mind went to PTSD and perhaps having something in common with Barry. So when he asked Barry to whack the guy, I wasn't surprised. I was mostly disappointed, because even if Barry does it, you know it isn't over. That cop isn't going to call it even and forget about it. So now we have to wait while this plays out, which kind of bores me.

Edited by Ottis
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21 hours ago, shapeshifter said:
22 hours ago, Blakeston said:

man oh man was Sally an idiot for getting into the hotel room alone with her evil ex.

On most any other show Sally closing herself in a room with her Strangler ex would be crappy writing.
On this one it's kind of a farce made up out of a horror flick trope.

9 hours ago, Ottis said:
On 4/22/2019 at 6:25 AM, arc said:

Sam is a really awful abusive monster. He may not have killed anyone yet, but I think he's as fundamentally sociopathic as Fuches or Barry.

I think the depiction of Sam was really nuanced and well done. Some of the time he seemed like a normal guy with a kid and the usual life worries. Then you see him under pressure, and scary stuff starts to leak out around the edges. Sam didn't appeared to be a monster on the show, and we know Sally's account of their relationship is not accurate, but also, we saw enough of Sam to realize he *could* have been as bad as Sally says, despite her exaggerations and need to overcompensate and feel like a hero in her story.

I just finished the memoir Educated by Tara Westover, which has been on the NY Times Bestseller list for over a year, so might have been read by Bill Hader or Alec Berg. Anyway, there's a brother in the book who is a manipulative, violent man who targets women. Not only could the guy from the memoir have inspired Sam in this show, but the author of the memoir repeatedly goes back to the abusive brother and accepts his invitations to go off alone with him, which always ends in choking and/or other bodily harm. I had thought Sally's willingness to have a meal with Sam and then go to his room were just Only-On-TV tropes, but in the very real memoir, it is a behavior repeated even after the abused sister has gone away to college and created a new life for herself. So I guess it's a real life thing too.

Anyway, the term sociopath seems apt for both the brother in the memoir and Sally's ex Sam. And "Sociopaths Are Us" could be an alternate title for this show, heh, because: Fuches, Hank, Gene, and the detective and Sally too. So, yeah:

On 4/23/2019 at 1:49 AM, tennisgurl said:

Barry, a deeply unstable murderer, still somehow so often comes across as the only normal person in any room

Edited by shapeshifter
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7 hours ago, Ottis said:

I think the depiction of Sam was really nuanced and well done. Some of the time he seemed like a normal guy with a kid and the usual life worries. Then you see him under pressure, and scary stuff starts to leak out around the edges. Sam didn't appeared to be a monster on the show, and we know Sally's account of their relationship is not accurate, but also, we saw enough of Sam to realize he *could* have been as bad as Sally says, despite her exaggerations and need to overcompensate and feel like a hero in her story.

Sociopaths aren't visibly monsters all the time! Part of what makes them more dangerous than people who are obviously always dangerous is that they play the role of "normal person" well.

I didn't even remember anything about the cop's wife having an affair, so it wasn't in my mind.

Not an affair, precisely. They're separated. She put a vacation picture of herself and her new bf on Facebook, as seen in 2x02, and plug plug, which I screencapped last page.

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What I like about this show is that it depicts the characters as complex human beings rather than caricatures. Gene is a self absorbed ass, but he is capable of loving Janice, mourning her loss, regretting what a crappy father he was, etc. His advice to Barry was sincere and heartfelt - we are all capable of change and DON'T EVER TELL ANYONE ELSE THAT STORY. And then he reverted back to the Gene we know by charging Barry for a private lesson.

Sam's depiction was accurate - many abusers come off as normal or even charming, which is why their victims often have a difficult time convincing their friends or family (or the police) that the abuser is capable of being so violent. An abuser's nice facade is also another weapon in their arsenal with the victim and helps with the gaslighting aspect. I thought they did a great job writing him as a believable abuser, especially when his focus was on how Sally's skit would affect HIM and his family. You know, in another state where no one would even see her performance.

I love NoHo Hank so much, from his sun outfit to bitching about the ice cream flavors getting switched.

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Just catching up on this show really loving the series. 

I have no idea where things are ever going on here. 

Did not see it coming with the cop asking Barry to kill his ex's lover. 

NoNoHank is hilarious.  Steals every scene. 

Sally really is pretty much a self centered bitch most of the time.  Seems like the prototypical actress wannabe. Has marginal talent, is young and attractive enough to get auditions in the industry but will never get more than bit parts.  Yet her ego tells her she is destined to be a star and is much more talented than everyone else. 

On the other hand, I would be most of the actors/actresses in that class think the exact same thing, except Barry.  

The show is like a weird combination of Grosse Point Blank and Dexter. 

Barry/Bill Hader even looks a bit like Dexter/Michael C Hall, but with darker hair. 

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Reminds me of a homage to all the old boss characters that still come back to attack you from the old school Capcom Resident Evil games I played as both a teenager and college student. 

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Hmm. So the cop intended to kill Barry anyway? He was going to be some sort of hero to his ex wife for killing the killer of her lover?

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I don't think Loach's plan was that well thought out. He certainly wouldn't have expected Ronnie and Barry to be at the same supermarket. And gunning down anyone in a supermarket, with all its security cameras, isn't a great idea. But he probably was thinking about killing Barry, because after all, Barry did kill Janice. And even if he hadn't, wiping out the people who know is good for operational security. I was really not expecting Loach to die by a roundhouse kick to the face though. What an insane episode.

I'd fanwank that Ronnie, between being stoned and having a broken windpipe, might not have managed to call the cops about the attempted hit.

Barry really should have had a gun on him, esp after Ronnie whipped out the nunchuks.

Fuches has to dump the car. Even before hitting the police car in the parking lot (with its dash cam footage!), there's Barry's blood everywhere in it.

The girl (Lilly, I guess, from the episode title) was juuuust this side of superhuman. The initial jump attack she made was clearly wire-assisted though and felt weird for a show that otherwise has never used wirework as far as I can remember.

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Great interviews for this episode, 2.5 "ronny/lily," such as:
washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2019/04/29/yes-that-barry-episode-was-insane-bill-hader-explains-those-surreal-violent-scenes/

 
  
  
  
  

Having used glue on myself when a few stitches were what I really needed, I LOLd at fuckin Fuches super gluing his hands to the steering wheel.

It was also satisfying to have Barry see Fuches for the user he is—both via flashbacks and that Fuches expressed less empathy for Barry's injury than Barry did for Ronny's.
  
  
  

 
   
  
So Barry is on the security tape, can be identified by at least the store clerk, and by the little girl. But the events of the tape are ambiguous—especially since Barry is in defense mode, and the girl is not exactly a reliable witness if she's gone feral.
  
 

20 hours ago, DrSpaceman said:

NoNoHank is hilarious. Steals every scene. 

Which is why it is a good thing that he's not in this episode. But he is mentioned, which is also a great bit of writing that so many shows neglect when a character is off screen for an entire episode.
  
  
  

20 hours ago, DrSpaceman said:

Sally really is pretty much a self centered bitch most of the time.  Seems like the prototypical actress wannabe. Has marginal talent, is young and attractive enough to get auditions in the industry but will never get more than bit parts.  Yet her ego tells her she is destined to be a star and is much more talented than everyone else. 

Reading this^ post, I just realized that Gene was no doubt like Sally when he was her age. 

Edited by shapeshifter
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Well, this was a pretty crazy episode!  I was almost starting to wonder if it was a dream sequence/hallucination: especially when the girl enter into the scene.  Those stunts were nuts!

Even with Loache dead now, I wonder how Barry and Fuches will not get noticed with all of the evidence that has to be left behind.  I imagine the store would have security cameras as well.

I did like how the episode provided more insights into the relationship between Barry and Fuches.  It really shows how someone as messed up like Barry would end up falling for Fuches schemes, and even when he hates him, he can't just quit him.

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3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Well, this was a pretty crazy episode!  I was almost starting to wonder if it was a dream sequence/hallucination: especially when the girl enter into the scene.  Those stunts were nuts!

That's the end for me, I'm done with the show. I kept waiting to find out it was a dream with that ridiculous little girl.  

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The little girl was a bit nuts, I'll admit, but I still LOVED this episode. The fight scenes were so real I kept flinching and covering my eyes.

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Tae Kwon Do guy reminded me of a stoned Jon Hamm.

Why is Fuches Barry's only person/friend/confidante? Have they ever mentioned if Barry has family?

What a weird episode especially following an extremely harrowing GoT ep.

The feral child latched onto Fuches cheek was worth the price of admission.

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This whole episode gave me extreme Coen brothers vibes, with the surreality mixed with moments of sudden violence and a general "We're all screwed" tone. Not to mention that Stephen Root has worked with the Coens several times before.

Hader did a great job directing this episode. 

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17 hours ago, arc said:

The girl (Lilly, I guess, from the episode title) was juuuust this side of superhuman.

My initial thought when first seeing her was that she was like something out of a Japanese horror movie.

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That was terrible. Nothing anyone did in episode made sense. Not the deal Barry offered karate guy, not the girl, not the fight in the supermarket (after going there with blood all over his face). We went from dark comedy to silly farce. What happened to the writers and Hader? 

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1 hour ago, FoundTime said:

Hader's last words in the interview regarding this episode (1.5 "ronny/lily"):
"There will be some people who will dig this, and there will be some people who are like: 'What’s going on with the acting class? I don’t care about any of this.' You can’t please everybody."
--seem to have been fulfilled.

I remember the TWoP and IMDb message boards being similarly divided over the Breaking Bad episode, "Fly."
I liked "Fly" and I like "ronny/lily" too.

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his whole episode gave me extreme Coen brothers vibes,

A little Raising Arizona, a little Pink Panther. Genius television. I loved it and laughed a lot. Gonna watch it again, which is rare for me.

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I loved the beginning when you hear Barry saying "Don't freak out" and spelling out the plan -- then he walks into frame wearing that ridiculous thick red mask and the giant goggly sunglasses - loved it!

I also loved his blood goatee even though it was gross. I thought his messed up condition might make it harder to identify him. 

The only part I didn't like was Fuches asking the girl to get in the car and offering corn nuts. He HAD to know that wouldn't work, he's not that dumb.

That girl was amazing!

Edited by Nordly Beaumont
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1 minute ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

also loved his blood goatee even though it was gross. I thought his messed up condition might make it harder to identify him

Excellent point about the blood goatee possibly masking Barry's identity on the convenience store video feed—if the camera was functioning—how many L&O episodes had non-working security cameras?

But I do recall at first being grossed out by Barry's bloody face, and then doing a double take on it in the convenience store when it had taken on the shape and hue of a beard.

If the camera wasn't working, and the police detectives wind up having to rely on eye witnesses, they will likely describe Barry as a tall white guy with a beard.

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6 hours ago, Phishbulb said:

This whole episode gave me extreme Coen brothers vibes, with the surreality mixed with moments of sudden violence and a general "We're all screwed" tone. Not to mention that Stephen Root has worked with the Coens several times before.

Hader did a great job directing this episode. 

Fuches spurring Barry on to kill a small child, then trying to lure that child into his car. like the creep he definitely is, without the slapstick and hyper realness would have been too dark, even for this show.

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6 hours ago, steelyis said:

Fuches spurring Barry on to kill a small child, then trying to lure that child into his car. like the creep he definitely is, without the slapstick and hyper realness would have been too dark, even for this show.

There was never a sense that Barry was going to kill the daughter or that she was going to get in the car—keeping the show anchored in the realm of comedy—just barely. 

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