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Celebrating 1,000 NCIS-franchise episodes

PODCAST S01.E01: Pilot

Primetimer

By Primetimer
in Veronica Mars

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queenbee9b

queenbee9b

I just finished a 3 season and movie rewatch of VM,  I'm so excited for this! Plus it gives me something to listen to between the 90210s and the new Twin Peaks podcasts. I have a long commute and this will greatly improve it. 

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CurlyATX

CurlyATX

Just started the podcast (squeal) but wanted to address the question of Duncan/Veronica breakup and Lilly's involvement. There is a flashback somewhere when after Veronica presses Lilly, she sorta shrugs and says "my brother is a dumbass, he isn't worth you freaking out over this breakup" and it has hints of her knowing. Something along the lines of "you're better off without him" vibe. It may be in season two as Veronica starts piecing together the events of Shelly's party.

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Trixieagogo

Trixieagogo

I have long had the feeling that Logan and Weevil actually played together as children.  Weevil's grandmother was the Echolls family housekeeper and it makes sense that she might have brought him to work with her on occasion. Then as they grew older the awareness of social stratification would have pretty naturally driven them apart.  I felt like it was a missed story opportunity (or at least could been tossed off as a pointed aside).   "We Used to Be Friends" works on a lot of levels in this show. 

As to Colantoni - hell yes.  What's not to love about a smart, funny, quick-witted man?  

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Clare

Clare

OMG, I've watched the pilot several times and never noticed Logan's accent in the flashback scene.  I'm dying, what is going on with that?  

The first few scenes between Keith and Veronica are so odd.  I think it goes away but they had such odd chemistry.  I totally agree about Enrico, he's got a thing.

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CouchPot-8-O

CouchPot-8-O

Hi! Long time listener, first time caller! There's an episode later in the season where we flashback to Veronica and Lilly talking about Duncan breaking up with her. Lilly takes Veronica's side until some time later, when she tells Veronica to let it go without reason. So, the break-up was pre-murder and Lilly maybe knew there was a chance Veronica was related (which seems like an awkward thing to keep to yourself, now that I think about it.)

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Sarah D. Bunting

Sarah D. Bunting

Glad it's not just me on the Colantrain. Love that guy. 

 

@WhosThatGirl, you may get your wish! (It may not be me and Tara doing it because we...have given enough of our lives to that guy? [hee] But if we get good response/numbers on current "vintage" pods rolling out, a DC-cast could be in your future!)

 

@Curly, that sounds right. I'm trying not to watch ahead and solve some of these riddles, but it's tough.

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generate789

generate789

Glad it's not just me on the Colantrain. Love that guy. 

 

@WhosThatGirl, you may get your wish! (It may not be me and Tara doing it because we...have given enough of our lives to that guy? [hee] But if we get good response/numbers on current "vintage" pods rolling out, a DC-cast could be in your future!)

 

@Curly, that sounds right. I'm trying not to watch ahead and solve some of these riddles, but it's tough.

I would 100% listen to a DC podcast. One.Hundred.Percent. Been skulking around y'all since Dawson's Wrap and I never, ever get enough of hating on DC. (or rewatching it, apparently, because I'm currently in my 8th rewatch of the entire series ) (only God can judge me)

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Delphi

Delphi

4 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

Just started the podcast (squeal) but wanted to address the question of Duncan/Veronica breakup and Lilly's involvement. There is a flashback somewhere when after Veronica presses Lilly, she sorta shrugs and says "my brother is a dumbass, he isn't worth you freaking out over this breakup" and it has hints of her knowing. Something along the lines of "you're better off without him" vibe. It may be in season two as Veronica starts piecing together the events of Shelly's party.

Yeah.   I also think it is implied in Veronica's what if flash backs that Lilly also found out about Veronica's possible parentage,  so she was trying to avoid the whole thing. 

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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

(edited)
5 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

Just started the podcast (squeal) but wanted to address the question of Duncan/Veronica breakup and Lilly's involvement. There is a flashback somewhere when after Veronica presses Lilly, she sorta shrugs and says "my brother is a dumbass, he isn't worth you freaking out over this breakup" and it has hints of her knowing. Something along the lines of "you're better off without him" vibe. It may be in season two as Veronica starts piecing together the events of Shelly's party.

I'm pretty sure all of Shellys party flashbacks and the reveal is in season one. But yes I think Lily knew as well. It may have been the secret lily was going to tell Veronica after the car wash but maybe not. She did have many to share. 

Im so excited there's a podcast for this show. VM was my show in high school and while I liked parts of the last season, it just didn't feel the same to me. I loved the movie though. Please tell me you guys will podcast that?!?

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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secnarf

secnarf

1 minute ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I'm pretty sure all of Shellys party flashbacks and the reveal is in season one. But yes I think Lily knew as well. It may have been the secret lily was going to tell Veronica after the car wash but maybe not. She did have many to share.

I thought it was implied that that secret was

that she was sleeping with Aaron Echolls

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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

Above post: 

Spoiler

Above post: 

SPOILER

 

see I'm always unsure about that. Sometimes I think it is but other times I'm not sure? Because would Lily really tell Veronica about it? I mean she had been doing it for a bit before she found those tapes so.. I don't know if she was going to tell her.

So I never know. 

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Delphi

Delphi

I kind of doubt that that was what Lilly was going to tell her.  Her attitude was so playful and cavalier which would be pretty cruel.   "Hey bff, you've been screwing your half brother!  Isn't that a salacious secret!"

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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

22 minutes ago, Delphi said:

I kind of doubt that that was what Lilly was going to tell her.  Her attitude was so playful and cavalier which would be pretty cruel.   "Hey bff, you've been screwing your half brother!  Isn't that a salacious secret!"

But I also don't see her being that cavalier about other stuff either. Lily knew  and had a lot of secrets so I think the guess is anything. I think that's the point.

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Sarah D. Bunting

Sarah D. Bunting

I think this timeline is correct...but we'll be speculating about it more in the next handful of eps because they're already in the can, so whatever screaming you need to do at us for not "listening" to y'all, feel free to do it here! We'll no doubt have a corrections/mailbag section going forward.

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MostlyC

MostlyC

I miss Veronica's season hair- I hated that she grew it out- it got too flowy and  ingénue-y, and Veronica Mars was anything but an ingénue.

I also remember that the only way I could tell Duncan and Logan apart the first few episodes was the paluka shell necklace Logan wore.  

Duncan's traumatic back and forth rocking was hilarious, and Celeste Kane's villainess wardrobe is fabulous.

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Racj82

Racj82

Great podcast but I would actually appreciate a more streamlined podcast structure for this show. It's so dense at times and so much to follow. Breaking down the various plots in full would help keep all the goings on straight.

I did a re watch for vm in relation to another podcast but I honestly grew to dislike it and their view on certain things over time so I dropped it. You guys are a saving grace no matter how you structure the podcast.

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jeansheridan

jeansheridan

Season 1 hair was the best hair but I did think she was styled to look like Chloe from Smallville.

The TWOP recaps for VM were the best. I miss them. I wish I had saved them. Remember when we all worried he wouldn't get a full season? And then it got renewed! But season 1 was the best. Life is short so if you can only watch some of Veronica, watch season 1.

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Sarah D. Bunting

Sarah D. Bunting

Thanks for the comment -- the structure of the pod may/probably will evolve as we go along. We do record eps a bit ahead for various reasons, so if it seems like we haven't taken suggestions or questions into account, it's because the pod was in the can already. 

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ehr1006

ehr1006

Love this so much. I will never be able to unhear JD's amazing Jersey accent.

Veronica's mom reminds me of one of the Arquette sisters (I can't remember which one). That "mystery" is a pretty weak link in the season.

Abel Koontz is Balthazar?!? mind. blown.

Agree that I'm pretty sure the timeline is that

Spoiler

Duncan breaks up with her (Lilly is semi-sympathetic, IIRC, but I think she knew about the parentage ew), then Lilly is killed. Because of her friendship with Lilly, she stayed with the cool kids, but once Keith went after the Kanes, she was shunned.

I have NO recollection of that being the closing music ("All You Need Is Love"). Hm.

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sacrebleu

sacrebleu

Loving this podcast! My sister and I watched VM together every Tuesday, and when I got the DVDs we used to hold Veronithons.

I was always a little fuzzy on the timing of events. If Duncan/Veronica/ Lilly/Logan went on their double date to the fall dance. then Duncan breaking up with Veronica. Lily's murder. Keith was fired/Veronica was ostracized. And it all had to happen before Shelly's party in late December. That's a really busy fall.

Side note: in the discussion of the rando extra who was in Bring It On, John mentioned someone having 'British eyes" I've never heard that== what is meant by it?

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Affogato

Affogato

On 6/10/2017 at 9:18 PM, sacrebleu said:

Loving this podcast! My sister and I watched VM together every Tuesday, and when I got the DVDs we used to hold Veronithons.

I was always a little fuzzy on the timing of events. If Duncan/Veronica/ Lilly/Logan went on their double date to the fall dance. then Duncan breaking up with Veronica. Lily's murder. Keith was fired/Veronica was ostracized. And it all had to happen before Shelly's party in late December. That's a really busy fall.

Side note: in the discussion of the rando extra who was in Bring It On, John mentioned someone having 'British eyes" I've never heard that== what is meant by it?

Let's see if I can get this straight. This is the order it happens in, as I understand it:

Spoiler

Veronica and Lily are the same age, but she is in the class with Duncan and Logan and Lilly is in the class ahead, so the homecoming dance is Veronica, Duncan, Logan's Freshman Year and Lilly's sophomore year.

The next year Veronica returns to school and Duncan doesn't acknowledge her, Celeste has told him that they are sisters. Lilly tells her Duncan is weird, or something like it. Veronica is hurt. she is still Lilly's friend and hangs out with her. Veronica meets a new friend who kisses Logan, who Logan kisses knowing it will get back to Lilly and break them up, but Veronica self righteously takes this upon herself and loses a friend and learns not to follow orders from Lilly, anyway it is a meaningful experience for her. 

At the car wash Lilly tells Veronica she has a good secret, although she has many this is almost certainly having sex with Aaron, which Lilly would find gossip worthy, It is uncertain if this is an ongoing affair, she may be going to meet him to have sex for the first time after the car wash.. Anyway, Lilly is then killed.

Duncan's parents, assuming he is the killer, take him out of the picture, medicate him and hospitalize him, he is not available to Veronica or Logan as a friend. 

Keith loses his job, probably by Christmas. Lianne leaves. Keith starts PI business.

Veronica helps him sell stuff, maybe sell house, find apartment, find place of business, does receptionist duties, starts doing surveillance, working a couple full time jobs and going to school.

This means Logan is abandoned, takes it out on Veronica in the spring, bullies and ostracizes her. Tells people she has 'chosen her father over her friends'.

  She starts to toughen up, while learning the PI business.

At the end of the school year party that Shelley holds Veronica decides to give the group of 09ers a fuck you and goes to the party, but does something stupid, takes a drink from an enemy (I suspect Madison and Veronica have bad blood all along, but we never learn the details), and eventually is sexually assaulted by Logan and then raped by Cassidy and Duncan. She goes to the paternalistic (her Dad was sheriff) institution for help, Lamb the current Sheriff tells her to go see the wizard. She realizes if she now goes to her Dad he will lose it, beat up Lamb and be arrested, she can't tell him. She sees the Wizard, decides to be the person who helps the people paternalistic society will not help. Cuts hair, changes style.  Continues to work as a PI, doing actual cases.

The next fall goes to school, her junior year, cuts Wallace off flagpole. 

And we are off!

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secnarf

secnarf

2 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

Loving this podcast! My sister and I watched VM together every Tuesday, and when I got the DVDs we used to hold Veronithons.

I was always a little fuzzy on the timing of events. If Duncan/Veronica/ Lilly/Logan went on their double date to the fall dance. then Duncan breaking up with Veronica. Lily's murder. Keith was fired/Veronica was ostracized. And it all had to happen before Shelly's party in late December. That's a really busy fall.

Side note: in the discussion of the rando extra who was in Bring It On, John mentioned someone having 'British eyes" I've never heard that== what is meant by it?

I think Lilly died October 4? I can't seem to confirm that anywhere but that date for some reason comes to mind.

If so, the dance was probably September (maybe early Sept?), they broke up shortly after, then Lilly died, with plenty of time for the investigation and all that followed.

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BBHN

BBHN

Hopefully, the fashion "lewks" on these VA will get the same level of snark as the 90210 VA. I know the 2000s wasn't that long ago (compared to the 90s), but some of the looks from even a decade ago have not aged all that well...

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EricJ

EricJ

  15 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

Loving this podcast! My sister and I watched VM together every Tuesday, and when I got the DVDs we used to hold Veronithons.

I was always a little fuzzy on the timing of events. If Duncan/Veronica/ Lilly/Logan went on their double date to the fall dance. then Duncan breaking up with Veronica. Lily's murder. Keith was fired/Veronica was ostracized. And it all had to happen before Shelly's party in late December. That's a really busy fall.

Side note: in the discussion of the rando extra who was in Bring It On, John mentioned someone having 'British eyes" I've never heard that== what is meant by it?

Let's see if I can get this straight. This is the order it happens in, as I understand it:

Veronica and Lily are the same age, but she is in the class with Duncan and Logan and Lilly is in the class ahead, so the homecoming dance is Veronica, Duncan, Logan's Freshman Year and Lilly's sophomore year.

The next year Veronica returns to school and Duncan doesn't acknowledge her, Celeste has told him that they are sisters. Lilly tells her Duncan is weird, or something like it. Veronica is hurt. she is still Lilly's friend and hangs out with her. Veronica meets a new friend who kisses Logan, who Logan kisses knowing it will get back to Lilly and break them up, but Veronica self righteously takes this upon herself and loses a friend and learns not to follow orders from Lilly, anyway it is a meaningful experience for her. 

At the car wash Lilly tells Veronica she has a good secret, although she has many this is almost certainly having sex with Aaron, which Lilly would find gossip worthy, It is uncertain if this is an ongoing affair, she may be going to meet him to have sex for the first time after the car wash.. Anyway, Lilly is then killed.

Duncan's parents, assuming he is the killer, take him out of the picture, medicate him and hospitalize him, he is not available to Veronica or Logan as a friend. 

Keith loses his job, probably by Christmas. Lianne leaves. Keith starts PI business.

Veronica helps him sell stuff, maybe sell house, find apartment, find place of business, does receptionist duties, starts doing surveillance, working a couple full time jobs and going to school.

This means Logan is abandoned, takes it out on Veronica in the spring, bullies and ostracizes her. Tells people she has 'chosen her father over her friends'.

  She starts to toughen up, while learning the PI business.

At the end of the school year party that Shelley holds Veronica decides to give the group of 09ers a fuck you and goes to the party, but does something stupid, takes a drink from an enemy (I suspect Madison and Veronica have bad blood all along, but we never learn the details), and eventually is sexually assaulted by Logan and then raped by Cassidy and Duncan. She goes to the paternalistic (her Dad was sheriff) institution for help, Lamb the current Sheriff tells her to go see the wizard. She realizes if she now goes to her Dad he will lose it, beat up Lamb and be arrested, she can't tell him. She sees the Wizard, decides to be the person who helps the people paternalistic society will not help. Cuts hair, changes style.  Continues to work as a PI, doing actual cases.

The next fall goes to school, her junior year, cuts Wallace off flagpole. 

And we are off!

Thank you for that pre-show timeline. I've never seen it laid out like that, and it's really helpful.

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BBHN

BBHN

Quote

I

Spoiler

t is uncertain if this is an ongoing affair, she may be going to meet him to have sex for the first time after the car wash.. Anyway, Lilly is then killed.

Spoiler

Wasn't there a video of Aaron and Lilly having sex, which is how Veronica found out about Aaron and Lilly? Unless he video taped the one and only time they had sex before he killed her...

Also, where does Lilly and Weevil fit into the timeline?

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

4 hours ago, EricJ said:

Thank you for that pre-show timeline. I've never seen it laid out like that, and it's really helpful.

Couple corrections: The Homecoming dance they all went to was in the fall of their Sophomore year (Lilly's junior year), shortly before Lilly's murder, and Duncan froze Veronica out very shortly after. Shelly Pomroy's party was in December, not at the end of the school year, and Logan didn't sexually assault her at that party (or ever?), unless I really misunderstood something. There are pretty good timelines available here, but you'll see several duplications/inconsistencies because I don't think the show was that great at continuity w/r/t dates.

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Affogato

Affogato

3 hours ago, Carrie Ann said:

Couple corrections: The Homecoming dance they all went to was in the fall of their Sophomore year (Lilly's junior year), shortly before Lilly's murder, and Duncan froze Veronica out very shortly after. Shelly Pomroy's party was in December, not at the end of the school year, and Logan didn't sexually assault her at that party (or ever?), unless I really misunderstood something. There are pretty good timelines available here, but you'll see several duplications/inconsistencies because I don't think the show was that great at continuity w/r/t dates.

Well, maybe I'll go along with the rewatch and try to figure it out.,  Having homecoming in September seems odd to me, and having it with time for Duncan to freeze Veronica out and Lilly to have a relationship with several people, busy month, is all I'm saying. I think, for example, that there is a general assumption that the party is end of calendar year, but end of school year makes more sense and I've heard other people say this, too. Keith probably didn't lose his job instantaneously, there wasn't another election immediately, he didn't lose his wife and start a new business immediately, and Cliff indicates that Veronica has been doing PI work while Keith is out of town, and successfully, for a while, when the show starts things have had some time to mature. Your timeline might be correct but mine makes sense?

The salt lick thing, which is pretty graphically shown, is sexual assault. There isn't any way to get around it. Calling her a slut and painting signs on her locker and in toilet stalls, etc, is sexual harassment, too, just sayin'.

6 hours ago, BBHN said:

Wasn't there a video of Aaron and Lilly having sex, which is how Veronica found out about Aaron and Lilly? Unless he video taped the one and only time they had sex before he killed her...

Also, where does Lilly and Weevil fit into the timeline?

I think he taped his sexual conquests and lilly had sex with him, found the tapes, ran and was killed. I think it could have been only the once for her.

I'm betting Lilly and Weevil either were a brief fling after Logan kissed whatsis at the my parents are away at the award show party, or a fling the time before when L and L were split and resumed briefly before Aaron made an offer she couldn't refuse. 

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Delphi

Delphi

I always had the impression that Lilly was a year older that the crew,  I think in the original script Duncan and Lilly were to be twins but that changed.

 

I also think the party occurred months after the discovery.   Closer to the end of year and veronica trying to get in but failing.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

12 hours ago, Affogato said:

Well, maybe I'll go along with the rewatch and try to figure it out.,  Having homecoming in September seems odd to me, and having it with time for Duncan to freeze Veronica out and Lilly to have a relationship with several people, busy month, is all I'm saying. I think, for example, that there is a general assumption that the party is end of calendar year, but end of school year makes more sense and I've heard other people say this, too. Keith probably didn't lose his job instantaneously, there wasn't another election immediately, he didn't lose his wife and start a new business immediately, and Cliff indicates that Veronica has been doing PI work while Keith is out of town, and successfully, for a while, when the show starts things have had some time to mature. Your timeline might be correct but mine makes sense?

OK. You can look at the link I provided for the sources and details of all of this info. I agree that much of their timeline doesn't "make sense," because I don't think the writers nailed down all the dates in advance, and then certain things don't really track (and they occasionally contradict themselves). Keith lost his job a couple of months after Lilly's death, and soon after decided he wanted to stay in Neptune and become a PI and that's (apparently) what finally made Lianne leave. And yes, RT says that Homecoming, D/V and L/L breakups, and Lilly's murder all took place in a two week period in late September-early October. As far as Homecoming--in the US, Homecoming generally takes place in September-November, so that date makes sense. (Maybe you're thinking of Prom, which takes place in spring usually?). And until I rewatched, I always thought Shelly's party was end of schoolyear as well, especially because everyone's attire said "summer" to me, but they live in SoCal, so it's always summer. December is the canon date for the party.

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CurlyATX

CurlyATX

15 hours ago, Affogato said:

I'm betting Lilly and Weevil either were a brief fling

Didn't Weevil have her name tattooed on him? That doesn't mean they dated long; she could have been just that amazing in bed that he needed it inked for life.  Who did Logan kiss?  I may have to start rewatching too.

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Mrs. Coach

Mrs. Coach

Season 1 hair was the best hair but I did think she was styled to look like Chloe from Smallville.

The TWOP recaps for VM were the best. I miss them. I wish I had saved them. Remember when we all worried he wouldn't get a full season? And then it got renewed! But season 1 was the best. Life is short so if you can only watch some of Veronica, watch season 1.

Good news! You can revisit the old TWoP recaps here: http://web.archive.org/web/20140329170656/http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/veronica-mars/

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Affogato

Affogato

11 hours ago, Carrie Ann said:

OK. You can look at the link I provided for the sources and details of all of this info. I agree that much of their timeline doesn't "make sense," because I don't think the writers nailed down all the dates in advance, and then certain things don't really track (and they occasionally contradict themselves). Keith lost his job a couple of months after Lilly's death, and soon after decided he wanted to stay in Neptune and become a PI and that's (apparently) what finally made Lianne leave. And yes, RT says that Homecoming, D/V and L/L breakups, and Lilly's murder all took place in a two week period in late September-early October. As far as Homecoming--in the US, Homecoming generally takes place in September-November, so that date makes sense. (Maybe you're thinking of Prom, which takes place in spring usually?). And until I rewatched, I always thought Shelly's party was end of schoolyear as well, especially because everyone's attire said "summer" to me, but they live in SoCal, so it's always summer. December is the canon date for the party.

If RT says it was all in a two week period, ok, I would have placed homecoming in mid october, frankly. How do you build up oomph for a football team in that period of time. I do know high school football ends before college and professional football, at least it did where I grew up, where it snowed heavily.

This would, though, seem to establish that Veronica was one tough, savvy cookie under her bad wig and girly display of innocence, or she would never have gotten that far in her transformation in that period of time.

I suppose I should stop trying to have it make sense. I've watched the first season but I didn't take notes.

8 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

Didn't Weevil have her name tattooed on him? That doesn't mean they dated long; she could have been just that amazing in bed that he needed it inked for life.  Who did Logan kiss?  I may have to start rewatching too.

Lilly apparently broke up with Logan pretty regularly and hooked up with other people. I guess she could have been on and off again with Weevil. Weevil, a latino biker dude, would serve well to piss Celeste off.

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