S03.E07: Under His Eye

[AnswersWanted]

If the show truly wants to sell the image of June actually trying to save Hannah, as in actually getting her out of Gilead, then they need to write it out in the plot, not just give us lip service and then have June pull all of the most shortsighted, ill-advised, dumbest shit imaginable that would never, ever lead to her being even the slightest bit successful. 

Nothing June did in this episode was crafty, well thought out, planned out, carefully prepared, nada. She had nothing set in place. She had no escape planned for, she hadn’t asked for a favor from Lawrence before hand, she went to Hannah’s school, cried, then went home.

That was nothing more than a fucking waste of time and resources, she squandered her ace in the hole with having connections with Hannah’s Martha, and she has no clue where they’ve now moved Hannah. 

She provided Ofmatthew her ammunition to nark on the Martha and got her killed, and again June should have been on top of that from the start. She basically flaunted in Ofmatthew’s face she was up to something. She should have planned for a much less suspicious run in or maybe got a note passed to her.

She claimed she could get them all out, which not only was a lie to get the Martha to help her right then, she really could have been telling the truth. 

June had more than enough time to plan for a move by now, especially after taking part in so many executions. Her sole focus after returning from DC should have been to get Hannah and make like the wind. 

 June could have gotten the Martha to help her by promising to take her with them but seriously this time. The Martha would have been June's perfect link to getting Hannah to a rendezvous point, especially since thae school guard who was "a friend", if given a proper headsup to actually be available on the day of, could have assisted, and with Lawrence's help, then everyone makes a break for it, and you let the chips fall where they may.

What you wouldn't do is cause your one and only contact to your still very protected and guarded daughter to be ratted out, and then hung, and now said daughter has been put into basically a witness protection program situation by a bloodthirsty regime from hell, and the best you have now to rely on is your pitiful regret.

All this episode did was expose June’s lack of planning and preparation. They love to show her scowling and spitting and seething and all “fuck the system”, but she’s the one making everything ten times harder for herself, and there is no reason for it. It’s shitty writing and it’s producing a very shit character. 

If June really was responsible, she would have resolved herself to not laying eyes on Hannah again until she was ready to make a run for it.

And by run for it I mean: “balls to the wall, hauling every bit of ass, peddle to the ultimate medal, it’s go time, it’s do or die, literally” run for it. It would be an all or nothing operation, with June knowing she’d either succeed or at least she died trying. 

This June wants to die for physically assaulting a handmaid out in goddamn broad daylight, where was Hannah on her mind then? As one of those reviews I linked to said, she made a selfish, terrible mistake, mother or not, and it’s not one she should be given a pass for, imho.

At this point if Hannah gets saved at all, it will be in spite of June, not because of her. Because this episode alone should have ended with June hauled away if not shot down in the street. 

All this show wants to do is keep June tied to Gilead, they are willing to write whatever they must to make it happen, even when it's total garbage and blatantly unbelievable.

Edited July 3, 2019 by AnswersWanted

[lavenderblue]

If June were shown as having legitimate plans that were simply being foiled, I would find it easier to accept her choices. But instead, this season we're shown June seizing on periodic opportunities to....look at and talk to an oblivious Hannah, with no indication that she had any sound scheme to also 1) retrieve Hannah and 2) get her safely (as possible) out of Gilead and across the border. It was also implied, by both Mrs. Mackenzie and the Martha, that Hannah is psychologically better off for the time being within the status quo, i.e. without her birth mom showing up and then being forcibly separated from her again and again. Mrs. Mackenzie would have obvious ulterior motives here, but overall I can't say as I, as a viewer, would disagree with the notion that Hannah -- whose life has been suggested to be about as good as could be expected within Gilead norms -- is traumatized when this horrific early childhood separation plays itself out on a recurring basis.

June/Hannah and Serena/Nichole are obviously, obviously, brutally different mother-daughter situations. There's much not worth comparing between the former's fully legal, natural, multi-year parent-child dynamic and the latter's coerced adoption/surrogacy situation (to put the most generous spin on it) severed after a few weeks, but with this episode I kind of couldn't stop thinking of Serena's line, attempting to justify the extradition dumbassery, that seeing Nichole just changed everything for her. We're actually seeing that play out, too, with June since last season's extremely perilous meeting. She saw Hannah and it's not resulting in her making responsible, sound choices that will most maximally benefit Hannah -- it's resulting in her wanting more glimpses, even if that hurts Hannah and others around her.

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, alexvillage said:

What I was thinking as I rad the final part of your post. They will still pat themselves on the back and say they are creating a masterpiece.

If the writers had a plan, they would have June escape to Canada and tell her story, why she had to escape and that she has another daughter in Canada - that as she grows up, being half black, is possibly fertile, so she will be abused by the cultists. A basic, simplistic and silly plot came to my head in a few seconds, and that's not my job. Why can't the writers spin something else from there, or from another silly plot instead of the June escapes/comes back/escapes/gets punished/not really/SUPER HERO! Just for novelty's sake?

So which is it?  June is a SUPERHERO that can do anything, or she's a complete idiot who can't do anything right?

Luke is IN Canada, he's her father, and he's helpless to find or help Hannah so far. 

June's met with her now, knew where she was, and was putting a plan together to help get Hannah out, or at least not leave her behind. 

She's not a SUPERHERO though, so her plans are often lame, and unsuccessful. 

This latest to go to the school to do more than just get the lay of the land was completely idiotic though, and NO, I don't believe "June" or anyone other than Janeen is that stupid.

That was just horrid writers wanting a cinematic shot.

[VagueDisclaimer]

53 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

So which is it?  June is a SUPERHERO that can do anything, or she's a complete idiot who can't do anything right?

The point i’m understanding regarding June’s superhero status is that she’s invincible, protected by super plot armor, that any stupid thing she does matters little to her own survival or even any tension around her survival. Not that she’s performing heroic acts. She does not what makes sense for her character, just however best serves whatever they need to help drag out this story that they clearly lack forethought, imagination, and creativity to continue beyond the source material. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by VagueDisclaimer

[AnswersWanted]

1 hour ago, lavenderblue said:

June/Hannah and Serena/Nichole are obviously, obviously, brutally different mother-daughter situations. There's much not worth comparing between the former's fully legal, natural, multi-year parent-child dynamic and the latter's coerced adoption/surrogacy situation (to put the most generous spin on it) severed after a few weeks, but with this episode I kind of couldn't stop thinking of Serena's line, attempting to justify the extradition dumbassery, that seeing Nichole just changed everything for her. We're actually seeing that play out, too, with June since last season's extremely perilous meeting. She saw Hannah and it's not resulting in her making responsible, sound choices that will most maximally benefit Hannah -- it's resulting in her wanting more glimpses, even if that hurts Hannah and others around her.

I agree, it's a good comparison. What's sad is that once only Serena would have garnered my wrath over how selfish and obsessive she is, unable to put what's best for "her child" first. 

I think that's my biggest issue with June right now.

She's not just a character that we will love to hate or hate to love, etc, she's supposed to be our hero of the story, thanks to the writers.

We are to feel empathetic aboiur her, sympathize with her, grieve when she grieves, hurt when she hurts. We should care about her winning at all cost. But how can you care when she's behaving so inexcusably?

I know some people who just got started watching the show this season, they were intrigued by promos, but they didn't really know the characters yet, and they were shocked to find out June was the supposed heroine. They thought she was a fallen woman who used to be another Serena or something, they didn't get an initial vibe that June was a "good guy".

9 minutes ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

The point i’m understanding regarding June’s superhero status is that she’s invincible, protected by super plot armor, that any stupid thing she does matters little to her own survival or even any tension around her survival. Not that she’s performing heroic acts. She does not what makes sense for her character, just however best serves whatever they need to help drag out this story that they clearly lack forethought, imagination, and creativity to continue beyond the source material. 

Love that gif, heh, and I completely agree with you. 

June is impervious to her own, constant, stupidity and carelessness, that is her super power. 

She lost what tiny advantage she had in connection to Hannah, but it was someone else's head on the chopping block. 

She attacked another handmaid while surrounded by guards, armed, and Lydia and she may as well have been Jesus walking on water, she was untouched and merely stomped away. 

I don't know what else to call that kind of protection but a fucking super power at this point.

Plot armor works when there's an actual plot, but I have no clue what to call this mess. 

June continually does dumb shit and then skates by with no repercussions. Yes in this episode she actually did lose something, but she didn't lose her life even though she should have. 

I don't think her super power makes her a genius, it keeps her alive at all costs and that's the problem. Even the best superheros have their Achilles heels.

June has a scowl, a bonnet, and apparently eternal life.

[sadie]

35 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

June has a scowl, a bonnet, and apparently eternal life.

And this here folks is the only reason I’m still watching this dumpster fire of a show. Your comments give me life! 🤣

[PepSinger]

I have so many problems that I don't know where to begin, but my issue is that June is not playing the long game. Seeing your daughter for 2 seconds doesn't get her out of Gilead. That helps no one, and it's actually getting people killed. 

I honestly couldn't bear looking at that Martha's face. She broke my heart. Kudos to that actress because it was honestly stomach churning to watch her face her execution. 

Also, who hell made the directing and/or acting choice to have June scowl during the Martha's execution. WTF?

I just have to say that I have a problem with OfMatthew and OfGlen 2.0 -- two black women -- being such champions of Gilead. This is why it's so frustrating to have this show so oblivious of race; they don't realize what they are inadvertently saying with that portrayal. 

[Umbelina]

Emily was also idiotic during this episode.

She tries violently get to the Prime Minister of the country that is protecting her, and then assaults a police officer.

Way to show them you aren't a "violent criminal" who should be deported Emily.  Her own plot armor *surviving running over a Guardian, surviving a "gender traitor" affair which got the Martha hung, the plot armor master Commander Lawrence rescuing her, after she miraculously survives Nuclear Clean up with a clean bill of health, and then swims in full Handmaid gear, while carrying a baby across a freezing swift river to Canada.  All of this brought to you by a Handmaid suicide bomber.

Then, she sits around sharing additional murder stories in a police station with Moira, instead of both of them plotting their escape from Canada, which is obviously no longer the safe haven they thought it was. 

These writers are whack.

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Umbelina
added stuff

[PepSinger]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

Emily was also idiotic during this episode.

She tries violently get to the Prime Minister of the country that is protecting her, and then assaults a police officer.

Fair point. I love Emily, but I had the same thought as you did. Although I will say that I did like it when she and Moira were talking, and Moira said how they haven't killed anyone since leaving Gilead. It had to do with their circumstances, not who they are as people.

I also appreciated the Boston area shoutouts; Club Cafe and Machine. However, neither one of those places is in Somerville. LOL.

[ferjy]

On 7/3/2019 at 4:22 PM, kieyra said:

Did someone say Benioff and Weiss?

lol We need to beg the novelists to write more books so these show runners have something to guide them. When they try to write it themselves, it always fails miserably. Both GoT and HT were superb when they followed the books then deteriorated when they took over and added their own flavor to the stories. It's like me trying to extend Shakespeare's works. I would never attempt it, but these guys are so proud, patting themselves on the back for this mess they've created. And come on, writers, communicate! It's as if there are too many writers and they take each piece and just splice it all together without checking that things jive.

Edited July 6, 2019 by ferjy
I'm anal about typos.

[DiabLOL]

8 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

I have so many problems that I don't know where to begin, but my issue is that June is not playing the long game. Seeing your daughter for 2 seconds doesn't get her out of Gilead. That helps no one, and it's actually getting people killed. 

I honestly couldn't bear looking at that Martha's face. She broke my heart. Kudos to that actress because it was honestly stomach churning to watch her face her execution. 

Also, who hell made the directing and/or acting choice to have June scowl during the Martha's execution. WTF?

I just have to say that I have a problem with OfMatthew and OfGlen 2.0 -- two black women -- being such champions of Gilead. This is why it's so frustrating to have this show so oblivious of race; they don't realize what they are inadvertently saying with that portrayal. 

YES to your entire post and a special thanks for bringing up the race issue in this setting as well. 

I'm not sure what I was supposed to think about June's bizarre scowl/under his eye thing at the end (the execution) 

Also it really seemed to me that not only was June's behavior well past the suspicious mark but that it didn't even matter because EVERYONE THERE knew this was all about her and what she did.

[Umbelina]

14 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Fair point. I love Emily, but I had the same thought as you did. Although I will say that I did like it when she and Moira were talking, and Moira said how they haven't killed anyone since leaving Gilead. It had to do with their circumstances, not who they are as people.

I also appreciated the Boston area shoutouts; Club Cafe and Machine. However, neither one of those places is in Somerville. LOL.

It was a lovely scene, but it just made Emily look like a brain dead idiot.  Seriously?  All of the hell she's been through, partially because she didn't leave Gilead soon enough, and NOW, while she's still barely catching her breath, she isn't wary or paranoid right after that spooky and chilling interview with the Swiss lady?

IN WHAT UNIVERSE wouldn't she be scared silly by the implications of that interview, why would she risk attacking a police officer in the country giving her asylum? 

Has she learned nothing from those first errors, waiting to leave? 

I just don't buy it.  She wouldn't go to the protest after that meeting, she most certainly would not put on foot wrong doing something to concern or annoy Canada, and her entire focus would be "How do I get out of her the fastest, and do I ask my wife and child to come or leave them here?" 

ETA

Why didn't Emily warn Moira, especially after Moira confessed murdering a Commander?  Obviously Gilead knows that, though I don't think we did.  Moira is in danger of deportations too for crimes, but really, looking a bit deeper, once Canada starts deporting (if they do, which the Swiss lady seemed to confirm as at least a possibility) then most of the refugees in Canada are also in danger.

Don't warn anyone though Emily, don't run straight to the Embassy and meet Spy Guy or your ambassador to share this horrifying news or ask for advice or immediate transportation to Alaska or Hawaii. 

Nah, go to a protest, get physical with both the PM and a cop instead.  Brilliant move.

These writers suck donkey balls dipped in chicken shit.  It's all "moments" rather than logic, and they're particular good at making women look stupid.  Oh, as well as setting up endless peril for everyone in the cast and then hand waving it away.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Umbelina

[AnswersWanted]

27 minutes ago, sadie said:

And this here folks is the only reason I’m still watching this dumpster fire of a show. Your comments give me life! 🤣

And getting to make some of you laugh is why I’m sticking around. Sanity in numbers and humor!

23 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

I have so many problems that I don't know where to begin, but my issue is that June is not playing the long game. Seeing your daughter for 2 seconds doesn't get her out of Gilead. That helps no one, and it's actually getting people killed. 

I honestly couldn't bear looking at that Martha's face. She broke my heart. Kudos to that actress because it was honestly stomach churning to watch her face her execution. 

Also, who hell made the directing and/or acting choice to have June scowl during the Martha's execution. WTF?

I just have to say that I have a problem with OfMatthew and OfGlen 2.0 -- two black women -- being such champions of Gilead. This is why it's so frustrating to have this show so oblivious of race; they don't realize what they are inadvertently saying with that portrayal. 

Beautiful post. 

Yes, the actress playing Hannah’s Martha was brilliant. She really sold me during the hanging scene.

In fact seeing her acting against Lizzie’s in that scene actually was jarring to me. June came across as completely self absorbed, not even really caring this woman was losing her life because of her fuckery. It was such an awful display from her. 

And yes yes, about the race issue. Miller wanted so badly to dance around the subject and avoid “issues” and he’s ended up creating an even bigger, frankly uglier problem.

From season 1 to now this show has disintegrated rapidly, the vision has evaporated. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by AnswersWanted

[ferjy]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

So which is it?  June is a SUPERHERO that can do anything, or she's a complete idiot who can't do anything right?

Luke is IN Canada, he's her father, and he's helpless to find or help Hannah so far. 

June's met with her now, knew where she was, and was putting a plan together to help get Hannah out, or at least not leave her behind. 

She's not a SUPERHERO though, so her plans are often lame, and unsuccessful. 

This latest to go to the school to do more than just get the lay of the land was completely idiotic though, and NO, I don't believe "June" or anyone other than Janeen is that stupid.

That was just horrid writers wanting a cinematic shot.

When has she ever put a plan together? That's the whole issue here, she just flies by the seat of her pants instead of putting together a proper workable plan.

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, ferjy said:

When has she ever put a plan together? That's the whole issue here, she just flies by the seat of her pants instead of putting together a proper workable plan.

That's been the whole boring season.  June joining the Martha resistance, to get another "in" and June manipulating Serena (which actually worked, she told her where Hannah goes to school) and June working both Lawrence, Fred, that Martha, and Nick for information as well.  Why do you think she wanted to go on that escape route?  She was learning how it worked.  She isn't a superhero, she's a brand new member of the resistance. 

She fucks up (especially when the showrunners want a "cinematic" scene,) and she fails.  She does keep trying though, just as she risked a lot telling the Swiss the opposite of what she was supposed to tell them.  Her life really isn't her concern, Hannah's is.  She's a fledgling revolutionary, but she has more experience than some, and is trying to gain more, and gain allies.

The writing is horrible, the directing usually horrible, the vision nearly non existent, but I don't blame a handmaid for people dying, and that includes June.  Just as I didn't blame Emily for getting that Martha killed.

GILEAD is the villain in this story, Gilead is murdering people every single day, including people trying to resist.  Those deaths are on Gilead.

I still detest the writing last season (a wolf, really?) and detest the illogical writing from Household on this season, and I detest the close ups that are way overdone on everyone, and I detest the "running in place" of every single actor on this show.  What I don't detest is Elizabeth Moss, or June.  At least I don't detest her anymore than the rest of this cast stuck with terribly writing.

I still hold out hope for some things though, and no, I'm not rooting for more dismemberment or actors walking around with physical damage (Janeen's eye, Serena's finger) because there are far more effective methods of torture that don't require an extra 10 hours in a make up chair or CGI to turn our stomachs.

My stomach is turned enough, and honestly, it concerns and baffles me when I see people baying for more torture, let's see some more sickening physical damage.  June deserves it!  Aunt Lydia is that you?  😉

I don't know how they can save this show, but brand new writers and showrunners is probably the only hope.  They've managed to make a mother willing to give her life to rescue her child into someone disliked. 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Umbelina
clarity

[ferjy]

On 7/3/2019 at 7:36 PM, Umbelina said:

Emily was also idiotic during this episode.

She tries violently get to the Prime Minister of the country that is protecting her, and then assaults a police officer.

Way to show them you aren't a "violent criminal" who should be deported Emily.  Her own plot armor *surviving running over a Guardian, surviving a "gender traitor" affair which got the Martha hung, the plot armor master Commander Lawrence rescuing her, after she miraculously survives Nuclear Clean up with a clean bill of health, and then swims in full Handmaid gear, while carrying a baby across a freezing swift river to Canada.  All of this brought to you by a Handmaid suicide bomber.

Then, she sits around sharing additional murder stories in a police station with Moira, instead of both of them plotting their escape from Canada, which is obviously no longer the safe haven they thought it was. 

These writers are whack.

 

Yes, absolutely agree. They're now ruining Emily, the one bright spot in the show. They seem to think we want to see nothing but angry psycho women. With how they're portraying them all, I’m beginning to think it’s their own fantasies being realized. Next they'll have them mud wrestling. They should be focussing on nuanced performances to have us feel their pain and fear, not only their anger. Anger may kick in later, but at this point these women would be shattered.

Edited July 5, 2019 by ferjy

[AnswersWanted]

I usually avoid talking a lot about Serena and Fred, saying I hate them over and over just gets old,  but they really were put on display this episode, and honestly I don’t get it.

Does the show really think these two would be better served leaving their villain roles now? After the past 2 and a half seasons these two have been the worst of the worst, all that they’ve done and continue to do, but the writing definitely seems to be trying to soften them in ways that leave me befuddled. 

I’m starting to think Miller and Littlefield just wanted these characters to steal from Atwood, but they didn’t ever plan to keep them as the people she so carefully crafted, or even keep them as true citizens of Gilead. 

I mean, they danced a Tango...ffs, a Tango?? Are we watching DWTS: Handmaid’s Edition? 

And I remember my main concern for this season was how it would treat Emily once she left Gilead and I was right to worry. She and Moira getting up to “hijinks” is not what needs to be happening. 

Their freedom, their lives are at stake, where is the urgency?

Where is the fear and terror that gets their asses in gear and makes them take matter into their own hands that does not involve a jail cell? 

A scene with Emily and Moira watching Fred’s shit video and discussing it, ripping it apart, bonding over their rage and pain at seeing their fellow Handmaids, especially June, still in bondage would have been a much better replacement for that coffee scene.

Then they could have easily transitioned to a scene with them booking a live interview on TV, deciding to fight fire with fire. That’s the kind of retaliation these smart women would go for, not stupid physical altercations that get them nothing. 

The writers are making these characters foolish, brainless, and just having them ambling along without any real purpose. 

[ferjy]

6 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

My stomach is turned enough, and honestly, it concerns and baffles me when I see people baying for more torture, let's see some more sickening physical damage.  June deserves it!  Aunt Lydia is that you?

It's not that we're asking for more torture (believe me, I'm squeamish and would rather not have to endure it), we're just stating that going by Gilead rules, her actions would get torture or some form of punishment. She can't keep doing things with no consequences. Either the writers have to inflict the punishment that other handmaids have had to suffer for doing a lot less, or preferably, give her a brain already to play the game shrewdly and act more surreptitiously.

[Joana]

I'm still laughing because I was just thinking how amazing it would be if June became aware of her Plot Armour and then strangled her shopping partner right there in front of everyone and then... it ACTUALLY HAPPENED and I literally howled. OMG, this show. I can't wait to see how June gets herself out of this mess! Except that I don't really care at all. 

Good going there, June. What a brilliant plan this was all along. Relying on an obviously unstable woman (BTW, it's nice to know she's glad Janine's baby is not dead, she only repeated it like a dozen times) so you could see your daughter for a couple of seconds, while breaking 18982 rules in the process. Jeez, what could possibly go wrong? The answer is, well, everything. When the guard said that "Parker is not here", my first thought was "Obviously, he's hanging on a wall somewhere". Anyway, when they showed June desperately clinging onto that wall, for a second I thought her motherly instinct would give her enough strength to jump over it. And hey, why not. Crazier things have happened and will happen on this show.

Emily being interrogated over her "criminal past" in Gilead was all kinds of ridiculous. And then she and Moira get arrested for disturbing the peace? I can't. I really, really can't. GTFO. 

The continuity on this show still never fails to impress. Last week, Washington made Saudi Arabia look like an ultra liberal place in comparison. Now? They're organizing grandiose dance balls straight out of Tolstoy's novels and men and women (and men and men) are freely and openly ogling each other. COME ON.

This really was a dumpster fire of an episode throughout. 

[ferjy]

38 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

That's been the whole boring season.  June joining the Martha resistance, to get another "in" and June manipulating Serena (which actually worked, she told her where Hannah goes to school) and June working both Lawrence, Fred, that Martha, and Nick for information as well.  Why do you think she wanted to go on that escape route?  She was learning how it worked.  She isn't a superhero, she's a brand new member of the resistance.  

She fucks up (especially when the showrunners want a "cinematic" scene,) and she fails.  She does keep trying though

But that's not putting together a plan. She's doing all those things as she goes along. When you plan, you sit down and think it through. You consider all the implications and consequences. She just decides to do something in the moment and goes through full force without even thinking much about it.

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, ferjy said:

It's not that we're asking for more torture (believe me, I'm squeamish and would rather not have to endure it), we're just stating that going by Gilead rules, her actions would get torture or some form of punishment. She can't keep doing things with no consequences. Either the writers have to inflict the punishment that other handmaids have had to suffer for doing a lot less, or preferably, give her a brain already to play the game shrewdly and act more surreptitiously.

Back when they had hundreds of handmaids in Gilead, and Serena and Fred organized that ridiculous Mexican dinner and Handmaid for oranges trade deal?  There were perhaps 6 visually physically maimed handmaids in the group dismissed by Serena, so the Mexican's wouldn't see them.

Lydia rarely does physical damage and the ONLY one we've seen with visible damage is Janeen.  Frankly, they probably regret that since it takes a lot of "make up" time, which is probably why we rarely see Janeen anymore.

She burns their hands (no showing damage) they beat their feet bloody (June, no showing damage) and the chopped off Emily's clit, ditto. 

Now they've even covered up Serena's chopped off finger.

They need to explain Lawrence though, his double rescue of Emily, and now June (no longer with the pregnancy armor) isn't really a mystery, it's a plot hole at this point.

[Umbelina]

3 minutes ago, ferjy said:

But that's not putting together a plan. She's doing all those things as she goes along. When you plan, you sit down and think it through. You consider all the implications and consequences. She just decides to do something in the moment and goes through full force without even thinking much about it.

So you want more scenes of June thinking?  Or voice overs? 

She's throwing everything at the wall, and I disagree that she has done no thinking.  Until this episode where she should have done a simple surveillance of the school to tuck away for future use (ie THINKING) and instead the idiotic writers have her swoon over the sound of children's voices and hug a fucking wall.

Going there?  Was smart.

Then the idiot writers wanted "their moment for a song and a crane shot" and screwed the whole thing up.  They are incredibly good at screwing everything up.

For another, why hasn't Luke bothered to do anything to get Hannah back?  Not one damn thing.  I guess I can't say the writers only make the women stupid, because?  Luke.

[Joana]

Also, why the hell is everyone in Gilead so obsessed with helping June retrieve her daughter? Who is she to them? What has she ever done to them? How is she possibly worth putting their own lives in danger over her? Organizing the escape for her and her baby at the end of the last season was already enough of a stretch, and when she refused it, every single Martha/Handmaid/Wife/Commander/Eye/Whoever should have been like "GURL, BYE!"

[AnswersWanted]

7 minutes ago, Joana said:

I'm still laughing because I was just thinking how amazing it would be if June became aware of her Plot Armour and then strangled her shopping partner right there in front of everyone and then... it ACTUALLY HAPPENED and I literally howled. OMG, this show. I can't wait to see how June gets herself out of this mess! Except that I don't really care at all. 

Good going there, June. What a brilliant plan this was all along. Relying on an obviously unstable woman (BTW, it's nice to know she's glad Janine's baby is not dead, she only repeated it like a dozen times) so you could see your daughter for a couple of seconds, while breaking 18982 rules in the process. Jeez, what could possibly go wrong? The answer is, well, everything. When the guard said that "Parker is not here", my first thought was "Obviously, he's hanging on a wall somewhere". Anyway, when they showed June desperately clinging onto that wall, for a second I thought her motherly instinct would give her enough strength to jump over it. And hey, why not. Crazier things have happened and will happen on this show.

Emily being interrogated over her "criminal past" in Gilead was all kinds of ridiculous. And then she and Moira get arrested for disturbing the peace? I can't. I really, really can't. GTFO. 

The continuity on this show still never fails to impress. Last week, Washington made Saudi Arabia look like an ultra liberal place in comparison. Now? They're organizing grandiose dance balls straight out of Tolstoy's novels and men and women (and men and men) are freely and openly ogling each other. COME ON.

This really was a dumpster fire of an episode throughout. 

If I could heart this a hundred times I would. 

My eyes nearly lodged in the back of my skull when June launched herself at Ofmatthew.

The massive middle finger the writers keep throwing up at us is getting more and more obvious all the time.

That scene was pure comedy, June screaming and strangling, Ofmatthew dying, the other handmaids all fighting to separate them, not a single guard giving a single shit, and Lydia was MIA, probably deciding which of the hung victims would fit best in her basement as a snack for later. My god it was so tragically bad. 

Honestly during the school scene they could have just had June morph into Beast mode and just go full on HAM and snatch Hannah before taking off. Maybe she could be a secret X-Men?

DC became Ibeza in a week's time.

All of that bullshit was ridiculous. Next I expect to see them all just throwing a swingers' party where Serena and Fred get introduced to the "Eyes Wide Shut" side of DC, led, of course, by Commander Keller in latex. 

I will never get sick of the phrase "dumpster fire" , and it fits this episode perfectly.

[ferjy]

17 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

So you want more scenes of June thinking? Or voice overs? 

Sure. They can take the wasted time of closeups of her glowering and instead show us in her bedroom (or wherever) planning things out. Yes with voice overs (worthwhile voice overs, that is, not the FUCK-THAT-with-a-scowl voice overs) or with actions like planning with Marthas, not just telling them she decided to come along at the last minute when they tell her it's not the best move.

Edited July 4, 2019 by ferjy

[Umbelina]

18 minutes ago, Joana said:

Also, why the hell is everyone in Gilead so obsessed with helping June retrieve her daughter? Who is she to them? What has she ever done to them? How is she possibly worth putting their own lives in danger over her? Organizing the escape for her and her baby at the end of the last season was already enough of a stretch, and when she refused it, every single Martha/Handmaid/Wife/Commander/Eye/Whoever should have been like "GURL, BYE!"

Why is anyone "obsessed" with getting anyone out of Gilead?  Why did they risk their lives for Emily, someone they didn't even know?  Or the Marthas they didn't even know?  Why did that truck driver take so many escapees to the Boston Globe, or would that pilot risk trying to help Gilead captives escape?  Decency.  Resistance.

The Martha also wanted to get out, and presumably cares for Hannah as well, and knows what Hannah's future is if she remains in Gilead.

10 minutes ago, ferjy said:

Sure. They can take the wasted time of closeups of her glowering and instead show us in her bedroom (or wherever) planning things out. Yes with voice overs (worthwhile voice overs, that is, not the FUCK-THAT-with-a-scowl voice overs) or with actions like planning with Marthas, not just telling them she decided to come along at the last minute when they tell her it's not the best move.

True, all they do is waste times on "artistic" close ups (and not just of June, they do them on everyone.) 

That would take thought, and a plan other than "this will WOW them, great camera work!" or other nonsense, and it's obviously by now these showrunners only want boffo (or so they think) moments.  Like Emily attacking a PM and a police officer just moments after being told they might deport her because of her violent criminal past.

Sense?  Doesn't exist in this show.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Umbelina

[Joana]

17 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Why is anyone "obsessed" with getting anyone out of Gilead?  Why did they risk their lives for Emily, someone they didn't even know?  Or the Marthas they didn't even know?  Why did that truck driver take so many escapees to the Boston Globe, or would that pilot risk trying to help Gilead captives escape?  Decency.  Resistance.

Yes, but June is far from the only person trying/wishing to escape from Gilead. Or who was separated from her child. As we have been shown numerous times, getting out of Gilead is extremely difficult and yet she was given a chance to escape already twice, and the second time she refused. So again, how is this particular handmaid worth such risk? Why would anyone try to help her again when there are so many people out there in the same situation?

I mean, we have seen not one, but TWO Wives conspiring to get her to see her daughter.  That's nonsense. That would never happen. And then a random Martha, who she does not know at all, agrees to help June see her daughter for a moment, even though it's incredibly risky and serves no real purpose as nothing substantial can come out of it. 

If anything, by now everyone remotely connected to the Resistance would know NOT to go anywhere near June, as it's a sure way to get yourself killed, all for nothing. 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Joana

[ferjy]

49 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

why hasn't Luke bothered to do anything to get Hannah back?  Not one damn thing.  I guess I can't say the writers only make the women stupid, because?  Luke. 

What a poor excuse of a character. They've made him into a whiny loser. O-T deserves a better role.

[jenn31]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Yeah, June should totally not care about her daughter growing up in Gilead, being forced into a marriage as a young teenager, continuing to be indoctrinated in this horrible culture, and never learning to read, or seeing her family again.

How dare June risk everything to rescue her daughter?  Why isn't she brilliant instead of a normal person who makes errors while trying to navigate this horrible word?  How dare she have emotions about any of it?

Shouldn't all freedom fighters and resistance members be brilliant from the jump, never make mistakes, and never expect to lose their lives or the lives of others while they fight a powerful regime designed to keep them enslaved?  Why doesn't June just give up on her daughter and bounce? 

Isn't that what most mothers would do?

Nobody is saying any of that. But she’s been there long enough to know there are better ways to handle things. She doesn’t need to be brilliant, but certainly more cautious. 

[chaifan]

Was I the only one thinking the tango scene with Serena and Fred was a "dream sequence" of sorts?  I really thought all that was going on in Serena's head, dreaming of the sexy that once was between her and Fred, only to snap out of it and be in the middle of a boring, soulless dance.  When it turned out to be "real" it was a bit ridiculous.  Both in the sexy tango and the crowd parting for them (how Dirty Dancing). 

The hanging of Hannah's Martha makes no sense.  If the Martha was accused of putting a child in danger, then what danger, exactly was that which would not have also resulted in June and Mrs. Lawrence being hanged?  Sure, OfMatthew saw June and the Martha talking, but how would anyone know it had anything to do with a possible child snatching, unless they also knew of Mrs. Lawrence & June's visit to the school.  Stupid plot holes like this bother me more than plot armor. 

[Joana]

4 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Was I the only one thinking the tango scene with Serena and Fred was a "dream sequence" of sorts?  I really thought all that was going on in Serena's head, dreaming of the sexy that once was between her and Fred, only to snap out of it and be in the middle of a boring, soulless dance.  When it turned out to be "real" it was a bit ridiculous.  Both in the sexy tango and the crowd parting for them (how Dirty Dancing). 

It didn't occur to me, but yeah, it would have much more sense as Serena's fantasy. I can't get over how ridiculous the whole thing was. To quote that iconic scene from Rome, that dance party totally looked like early, EARLY stages of an orgy!

As for the Martha being hanged, I thought OfMatthew clearly implied everyone was well aware who really was behind it and the Martha was only used as a scapegoat because of... Aunt Lydia's inexplicable fondness for June? Or maybe Commander Lawrence pulled some strings to make sure his wife's role in it didn't come up? That could actually even make some sense. But again, like always with this show, it's 10% actual storytelling, 90% fan fiction.

[Umbelina]

The thing I'm most disappointed in, and that makes the least sense to me is that Canada is even considering this, but more importantly, the Swiss would even be involved.

Had it been a spy mission of sorts?  I could have bought this story, provided it was revealed promptly.

Now?  It seems the writers are actually going with this nonsense.

Atwood must be breaking things, I bet she's so sorry she ever got involved with this.

[BrindaWalsh]

Have these writers even READ the book?

Dinner and dancing?  A handmaid and a wife together for a walk? Wives checking out real estate together?   This is The Handmaids Tale, not Mad Men.

And am I to believe that Fred came up with this Nicole plot to force an extradition treaty and elevate his status?  Freddie ain't that smart.

Edited July 4, 2019 by BrindaWalsh

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, BrindaWalsh said:

Have these writers even READ the book?

Dinner and dancing?  A handmaid and a wife together for a walk? Wives checking out real estate together?  

And am I to believe that Fred came up with this Nicole plot to force an extradition treaty and elevate his status?  Freddie ain't that smart.

Seriously to that first part, although it's not much of a fan wank to think that the DC power elite have more perks (apparently including banging the Guardians, because that's how I took those wive comments.)

Nah, Fred just wanted to get Serena back, and to do that he decided to get Holly Nicole back for her.

Commander Winslow is the one who is just using Holly Nicole to get an extradition treaty with Canada, and when he informed Fred of that?  Fred wasn't happy, and if he tries to thwart that?  I hope Winslow puts Fred on the wall.

[Andyourlittledog2]

Quote

Yet who wants to still bet Miller and Littlefield won’t give two shits about what people are saying or care about their complaints. 

Seriously. Where is a Greenpeace boat when you need one?

More whisper-acting. More closeups of June's ridiculous facial expressions. If I never see another close shot of Moss' eyes again it will be too soon.  The sheer stupidity of everything reeks in this episode.

I thought the 'they were Baptists' line was interesting. The Southern Baptist Convention has been anti-Calvinist as far as I recall and Gilead seems to be pretty much following the severe Patriarchy-lifestyle wing of the most zealous Calvinists out there so that makes sense to me. As a former cult member I have watched my former ex-members fall into that severe Patriachy line and have followed the religion and politics of it rather closely as a result and this seems to track pretty much with them. I won't go into the whys and hows of it all but it tracks closely with the ideology there and the extreme legalism and desire to transform the political system to conform to a biblical system.  Think Geneva under Calvin, that's the goal. Anyway, the entire house tour was ultra creepy, like some kind of horror movie. It was the only part of the episode I thought was done well. The rest?  Dear God the rest was awful.

[tennisgurl]

The scene with Serena in the house of the family she and her creeps tossed out was quite creepy and disturbing, and reminded me, oh yeah, this show can actually be subtle and disturbing. 

But then we get to the rest of this bullshit. June has just become such a ridiculous invincible idiot superhero who manages to save no one ever in the midst of her not plans. Look, June not getting to be with Hannah is awful and unjust, and I get why she is desperate to get to even hear her daughter for half a second. And yeah June probably cant run around coming up with elaborate rescue plans, being a normal person and all that, but...why does she keep doing this stupid selfish shit then?! If she wants to risk her own life so she can come up with such brilliant plans as going up to her daughter and crying next to her sleeping self or just hanging out by her school to hear her voice, but why does she have to drag poor terribly ill Mrs. Lawrence into it, even though she did at least fess up and she decided to help June, and of course that poor Martha who died purely because of Junes selfish carelessness. She only thinks about getting to, I guess, be near Hannah. Not even to help her or anything, just kinda be in her vicinity? Even when it clearly puts people without plot armor on in danger. Its in character at least, considering she dumped her baby daughter to just lurk around Hannah, risked the lives of all of the Martha's and Nick (before we knew he was some kind of Gilead superstar for no reason) so she could just come back home, and now its possible that many refugees will be sent back to be raped, tortured, and killed because she didnt go with the baby to tell her story and try to help Hannah from a place where she could actually do something, and not let Fred and Serena run their nonsensical propaganda machine that has Canada shaking in their hockey boots because...reasons.

And it seems like June didnt even lose it on OfWhatever because of the kind innocent woman who her daughter bonded with died horribly due to her actions, she was ok with that pretty quickly, she just got upset because Hannah's Commanders family fucked off and now she cant weirdly follow her around anymore. Everyone else can die I guess as long as June gets to be kinda close to Hannah.

Is that the point of the Moira and Emily conversation about the people they killed in Gilead? That people do messed up stuff in extreme situations and we shouldn't judge them or June? Because this thing with June getting the Martha killed is pretty different than what happened with them. I swear, if Emily gets shipped back to Gilead, I quit, I fucking quit. 

So what exactly do little girls learn at Gilead elementary school? They cant read, write, do math, etc so is it just home economics, every day all day? 

So Fred and Serena can do a whole tango in the middle of the Gilead elite? Dancing, especially sexy latin dancing, is ok in this world? Really? 

[lucindabelle]

Serena is getting the Cersei edit, isn’t she.

I too thought the dance was a weird fantasy- and it would have made sense since Serena clearly does not feel at home in dc, if she imagined everyone looking st them. But then it was real.

she did look alarmed at the home of people now gone, but without dialogue impossible to say for sure.

i actually like how much were shown of them because in general in dystopian novels I don’t get NEARLY enough- I wanted more of the capitol and the ordinary people there in The Hunger Games, and I gave up on Darkest Minds series because not enough of the people benefitting, just all rebels.

but I wanted MORE. Interesting that they all have teal ball gowns. Does money still exist? The wives seemed rather cynical. They read and complain about men. None of that would fly in Boston.

still interested in Mrs Lawrence. Still uninterested in June’s grand plot to see and steal Hannah.

Edited July 4, 2019 by lucindabelle

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

still interested in Mrs Lawrence. Still uninterested in June’s grand plot to see and steal Hannah.

???

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, Joana said:

Also, why the hell is everyone in Gilead so obsessed with helping June retrieve her daughter? Who is she to them? What has she ever done to them? How is she possibly worth putting their own lives in danger over her? Organizing the escape for her and her baby at the end of the last season was already enough of a stretch, and when she refused it, every single Martha/Handmaid/Wife/Commander/Eye/Whoever should have been like "GURL, BYE!"

That's what bothers me almost as much as June's "invincibility". Almost every other handmaid has been separated from her pre-Gilead child(ren), so June's situation is not special in any way. I can see the Marthas' network helping her escape with Holly/Nicole because a) there weren't that many healthy newborns in Gilead, and b) June and the baby were both in the same household at that point. But trying to spring a child from another household is nearly impossible and will almost certainly result in being found out and killed, so I don't understand why anyone in Gilead would want to do that just for June and Hannah. 

[scrb]

Sorry, not buying that Canada would bother to negotiate.  First there has to be normal diplomatic relations.  Gilead is an outlaw country.

Canada must know that as soon as Gilead is able, it will try to take over Canada.  Does it really believe deporting refugees to whom it granted asylum will change their plans?

And ultimately, Canada deporting refugees to a brutally repressive regime will make it an outcast among other nations.  All because if Freds dumb morality plays?

After the triumphant way season 2 ended, with June getting her infant out, the show runners want to make the very next season about Gilead trying to get the baby back?  Maybe if they did it in season 4 or 5.

I guess they want to do this show for at least a couple more seasons, so of course June isn’t going to be able to see Hanna or find a way to get her out.  It would be more likely for Gilead to fall and then June and Hanna are freed than for her to somehow get Hanna and then both escape.

There has to be some huge underground network and if commanders, not just Lawrence but others, are facilitating escapes, then Gilead has less than total loyalty among its leadership.

[lucindabelle]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

???

Steal her away, not steal as in she’s not her mother, steal away like lovers steal away together. 

I still find it hard hard to believe gilead which has been in existence less than 10 years, I’d say less than 5 even, given Hannah’s age, has so many rituals and ways to be and all the commanders and wives and even wives mothers like Serena’s are so down with it all.

i mean they’ve spent most of their lives NOT in Gilead. Surely they should still be inventing stuff.

Edited July 4, 2019 by lucindabelle

[mamadrama]

This whole episode simultaneously bored me and had me enraged at June. The only interesting part was when Serena and NotBenson toured the house in Nazi fashion. That whole sequence was disturbing, but just seeing the baby's name ("Phoebe") over the crib was a reminder of how not even THAT  would be allowed by Gilead's standards since girls don't read. I was half expecting some Marvin Gaye when NotBenson lead Serena into the master bedroom...

I clearly remember living through the Elian Gonzalez fiasco and have no interest in watching it play out Gilead style with Hollychole. I'm still angry over the original. 

None of these people are making good or even interesting decisions. Looking into my crystal ball, though, I'm theorizing that one of two things will happen:

June will get pregnant and have a baby for her commander to make his wife happy and, as payment, he'll get her and Hannah out of Gilead. 

OR

Joe Fiennes will knock up Serena Joy and they'll bring June in to pretend that SHE is the one who's pregnant. As payment, he'll get her and Hannah out of Gilead. 

Neither one of these scenarios make any sense, but that hasn't stopped the story writers so far so...

Edited July 4, 2019 by mamadrama

[AnswersWanted]

5 hours ago, Joana said:

Also, why the hell is everyone in Gilead so obsessed with helping June retrieve her daughter? Who is she to them? What has she ever done to them? How is she possibly worth putting their own lives in danger over her? Organizing the escape for her and her baby at the end of the last season was already enough of a stretch, and when she refused it, every single Martha/Handmaid/Wife/Commander/Eye/Whoever should have been like "GURL, BYE!"

Tell the truth. 

The show is so determined to make all of Gilead, from the highest in status to the very lowest, risk it all time and time again for blessed mother Saint June. 

All because they just want to SKIP! directly to the parts of the story they want to tell and nothing more. 

June's the lead character, all life revolves around her and she must be protected at all costs. 

It makes the overall story so cheap it's worthless.

5 hours ago, ferjy said:

Sure. They can take the wasted time of closeups of her glowering and instead show us in her bedroom (or wherever) planning things out. Yes with voice overs (worthwhile voice overs, that is, not the FUCK-THAT-with-a-scowl voice overs) or with actions like planning with Marthas, not just telling them she decided to come along at the last minute when they tell her it's not the best move.

June is like the player who is always practicing their "game face" while on the bench, but never actually expects to get called into the game, and when they are, you immediately realize they aren't prepared to do shit. 

June is presented as being in plan mode or thinking mode, especial with all her close ups and internal dialogue, but it's all smoke and mirrors.

She doesn't even have to deal with the ceremony anymore since the Lawrences' don't take part in it. So what else would she be doing? Every waking second of her very slow day should be, would be, filled with intense plotting and planning. As you said, she could have been asking the Marthas' network for assistance and advice. She could have worked on figuring out exactly where the school was, maybe get Hannah's travel route, make more friends or connections closer to those around Hannah, etc. 

It's crazy that the show wants to trap June in this world where frankly tons of alone time to herself is pretty much guaranteed to her every single day, but she's never ready to actually act literally or figuratively when an opportunity presents itself. She's never mentally prepared to put an actual plan into action.

4 hours ago, ferjy said:

What a poor excuse of a character. They've made him into a whiny loser. O-T deserves a better role.

Totally agree. Every time I see an interview with him it proves so annoying to think such a charming, thoughtful, good actor has been shoehorned into playing Luke. Mr. Do Little or Do Nothing most of the time.

I know Gilead is supposed to be this "colorblind" society, which pfft, as if. But I think he could have played a fabulous Nick, but then another actor would have needed to be cast as Fred for obviously reasons, not like that would have been a bad development either, heh. I could certainly think of some really strong candidates.

4 hours ago, jenn31 said:

Nobody is saying any of that. But she’s been there long enough to know there are better ways to handle things. She doesn’t need to be brilliant, but certainly more cautious. 

Agreed.

Cautious, thoughtful, prepared, and alert. I really don't think it's terribly unreasonable for the audience, this long into watching the show and seeing how shit keeps unfolding, to expect a June who shows, on screen, real growth and a lot more awareness by now. 

She should be a much better player in this game than she clearly is. 

4 hours ago, chaifan said:

Was I the only one thinking the tango scene with Serena and Fred was a "dream sequence" of sorts?  I really thought all that was going on in Serena's head, dreaming of the sexy that once was between her and Fred, only to snap out of it and be in the middle of a boring, soulless dance.  When it turned out to be "real" it was a bit ridiculous.  Both in the sexy tango and the crowd parting for them (how Dirty Dancing). 

The hanging of Hannah's Martha makes no sense.  If the Martha was accused of putting a child in danger, then what danger, exactly was that which would not have also resulted in June and Mrs. Lawrence being hanged?  Sure, OfMatthew saw June and the Martha talking, but how would anyone know it had anything to do with a possible child snatching, unless they also knew of Mrs. Lawrence & June's visit to the school.  Stupid plot holes like this bother me more than plot armor. 

It felt like they had spliced in some shot from a cheesy B movie from the Hallmark channel that showed us the two leads suddenly twirling around the floor with professional ballroom flair which came out of thin air,  because last we knew he was a broker and she was a flower shop owner. 

If they had any sense of real storytelling anymore, they definitely should have shown us the scene as you pitched it. It would have been a good way to continue to show Serena disassociating with her reality more and more, and maybe it could lead to a breakdown, which could finally start toppling things.

And the Martha's murder was punishment for June. She may as well have had it scribbled on the front of her uniform: "I'm here because of Ofjoseph". They killed her to stick it to June, while June got off scot free as usual. 

3 hours ago, BrindaWalsh said:

Have these writers even READ the book?

Dinner and dancing?  A handmaid and a wife together for a walk? Wives checking out real estate together?   This is The Handmaids Tale, not Mad Men.

And am I to believe that Fred came up with this Nicole plot to force an extradition treaty and elevate his status?  Freddie ain't that smart.

I want Atwood to end up suing this crackpot team of Littlefield and Miller somehow. Just on principle.

They keep trying to write a world within a world and it is not working. It is leaving us with two shitty realities that neither make sense nor seem to be worth the effort to even care about. 

One second we see handmaids with mouths horrifically pierced to prove a vow of silence, and are forced to kneel like pet dogs awaiting their masters. 

The next it's cocktail hour and who's up for a quick game of Yahtzee??

If the higher ups in DC are supposedly so much more strict and entrenched in Gilead principles and proper etiquette, then why the hall are these people behaving more like the 70s jet set?

That's the exact type of lifestyle they all swore to forsake, at least publicly. 

But in the end it all circles back around to the fact that the show doesn't give a shit about following the book in any way that's significant anymore.

Season 3 gotta season 3, random shit gonna random, who the hell cares what the subject matter was about anyway. 

I wonder if I could sue them for Atwood...

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So what exactly do little girls learn at Gilead elementary school? They cant read, write, do math, etc so is it just home economics, every day all day? 

I actually thought about that when they described Hannah's school as an institution for "art"  and I think that's it exactly. 

These girls are going to be trained to be proficient in gardening, sewing, knitting, taking walks for good health, and I am sure baby care is number 1 on the list. Can't start them too young after all, since these fuckers will probably want them betrothed by 14 or whatever. 

I would say they might learn to cook and clean, but if these are only the girls belonging to elite Gilead members, then they would have their own Marthas' to take care of all that. 

You know, they might even have the girls go through a training course wherein they're taught how to "train" a Martha or Handmiad even for household service, like they used to do during slavery times.

You want even the "little masters" observing and learning how to command or punish or use their slaves "properly". And now I feel queasy...

Of course somewhere else, I assume the boys are being taught an actual education to strengthen their minds and surely their resolve and dedication towards Gilead. Disgusting. 

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

That's what bothers me almost as much as June's "invincibility". Almost every other handmaid has been separated from her pre-Gilead child(ren), so June's situation is not special in any way. I can see the Marthas' network helping her escape with Holly/Nicole because a) there weren't that many healthy newborns in Gilead, and b) June and the baby were both in the same household at that point. But trying to spring a child from another household is nearly impossible and will almost certainly result in being found out and killed, so I don't understand why anyone in Gilead would want to do that just for June and Hannah. 

Preach. 

The show has become so laser focused on June and her storyline only, they've now lost the whole plot. 

Gilead cannot actually function if all that matters is June's constant survival and getting to Hannah.

That bullshit is not even close to the story Atwood wrote. In fact in the book that angle couldn't be farther from the truth. 

The show built up a world first that was meant to crush June, and all those like her, under its' heel, but now they want to totally flip the script and make the same world dependent entirely on June's existence.

It doesn't get any lazier or uninspired in storytelling than that to me.

Writers who get bored or stop caring in the middle of their own story and decide pull a June, say "fuck it", and just start off in a new direction writing whatever shit comes to mind.

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Sorry, not buying that Canada would bother to negotiate.  First there has to be normal diplomatic relations.  Gilead is an outlaw country.

Canada must know that as soon as Gilead is able, it will try to take over Canada.  Does it really believe deporting refugees to whom it granted asylum will change their plans?

And ultimately, Canada deporting refugees to a brutally repressive regime will make it an outcast among other nations.  All because if Freds dumb morality plays?

After the triumphant way season 2 ended, with June getting her infant out, the show runners want to make the very next season about Gilead trying to get the baby back?  Maybe if they did it in season 4 or 5.

I guess they want to do this show for at least a couple more seasons, so of course June isn’t going to be able to see Hanna or find a way to get her out.  It would be more likely for Gilead to fall and then June and Hanna are freed than for her to somehow get Hanna and then both escape.

There has to be some huge underground network and if commanders, not just Lawrence but others, are facilitating escapes, then Gilead has less than total loyalty among its leadership.

The Canada angle has gotten so bad it's insulting to think the writers thought the audience would be satisfied with it.

It doesn't even make any sense.

Why would Canada, obviously fully aware of Gilead's barbaric rules and limitations for females (remenber how they so awesomely shaded Serena during her first visit with printed pictographs instead of words), underage marriages, forced into illiteracy their whole lives, forced to be fully submissive and subjugated by men, not to mention the whole enslavment and rape side of things (just in case anyone forgot...), yet it's the prospet of sending back a baby girl into that world that has made them finally decide to start working with Gilead? Get the fuck out of here with that noise, man.

1 hour ago, mamadrama said:

Neither one of these scenarios make any sense, but that hasn't stopped the story writers so far so...

You forgot option three: June gets 5 more people killed, dresses up as a wife and then a commander in drag, steals and subsequently wrecks three vehicles, tortures a guard to find out where they've taken Hannah, sends her spirit wolf to run and fetch Hannah for her while June steals a boat because why not, then she'll have the wolf bring Hannah to her and they'll escape Gilead forever...

I need a drink.

Edited July 4, 2019 by AnswersWanted

[Ashforth]

4 hours ago, chaifan said:

Was I the only one thinking the tango scene with Serena and Fred was a "dream sequence" of sorts?  I really thought all that was going on in Serena's head, dreaming of the sexy that once was between her and Fred, only to snap out of it and be in the middle of a boring, soulless dance.  When it turned out to be "real" it was a bit ridiculous.  Both in the sexy tango and the crowd parting for them (how Dirty Dancing). 

Here we go, LOL. Of course the long sleeved, long skirted Wife outfit would make it a bit more cumbersome. And the missing part of her pinky finger could throw her off balance.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Ashforth

[AllyB]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So Fred and Serena can do a whole tango in the middle of the Gilead elite? Dancing, especially sexy latin dancing, is ok in this world? Really? 

It was such a laughable scene. A waltz was playing. It was not near the end of the waltz. Fred walks in, everyone parts. Fred, amazed, tells Serena how beautiful she looks. Never mind that Fred and Serena have just been to dinner together and come to the ball together and Serena has not changed in the 4 minutes they have been apart. They start to waltz. Everyone else stops dancing and stands to watch them. They make sexy eyes and segue into a tango even though the music would not have changed. Everyone admires them greatly. They finish dancing to great applause!!!

WTAF!!!!!! Clearly this scene was written and directed when everyone was on LSD. It's the only thing that makes sense.

[alexvillage]

12 hours ago, Umbelina said:

So which is it?  June is a SUPERHERO that can do anything, or she's a complete idiot who can't do anything right?

Luke is IN Canada, he's her father, and he's helpless to find or help Hannah so far. 

June's met with her now, knew where she was, and was putting a plan together to help get Hannah out, or at least not leave her behind. 

She's not a SUPERHERO though, so her plans are often lame, and unsuccessful. 

This latest to go to the school to do more than just get the lay of the land was completely idiotic though, and NO, I don't believe "June" or anyone other than Janeen is that stupid.

That was just horrid writers wanting a cinematic shot.

June is a superhero that cannot get anything right?

The superhero part is tongue in cheek because the writers decided that the character knows she is in a show, that this story will eventually end and most of it will be a happy ending at least for her, and since the character is played by the star of the show, June can do whatever she wants. If she dies it will be in the last minute of the last episode, with a smirk close up. 

Basically, yeah they are just bad at their jobs.

11 hours ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

The point i’m understanding regarding June’s superhero status is that she’s invincible, protected by super plot armor, that any stupid thing she does matters little to her own survival or even any tension around her survival. Not that she’s performing heroic acts. She does not what makes sense for her character, just however best serves whatever they need to help drag out this story that they clearly lack forethought, imagination, and creativity to continue beyond the source material. 

That is better than my attempt to explain.

10 hours ago, sadie said:

And this here folks is the only reason I’m still watching this dumpster fire of a show. Your comments give me life! 🤣

And that's why I am NOT watching the show anymore, I come straight here.

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Way to show them you aren't a "violent criminal" who should be deported Emily.  Her own plot armor *surviving running over a Guardian, surviving a "gender traitor" affair which got the Martha hung, the plot armor master Commander Lawrence rescuing her, after she miraculously survives Nuclear Clean up with a clean bill of health, and then swims in full Handmaid gear, while carrying a baby across a freezing swift river to Canada.  All of this brought to you by a Handmaid suicide bomber.

I haven't watched but the situation itself - I cannot comment on how it was played - would be explained by the trauma. Traumatized people are not always brooding in a corner. They can have different reactions. All that she went through - plot armor aside - would boil over from time to time. And since the writers won't give any logical follow up to anyone's life in Canada, it could be anything, or an excuse for Emily to be now the villain. 

[AnswersWanted]

This may be one of the best breakdowns of this episode yet. The writer of this article really hit on so many issues with the show as a whole which this episode managed to highlight in grand detail.

I especially agreed with their statement that THT struggles mightily when it tries to focus so hard and so often on one handmaid, June, instead of the entire group in rotation.They could really build up intrigue and suspense but they never do. 

I think because they feel that they need June to drive so much of the action all of the time, they write themselves into hole after hole plot wise. 

June has to both save the day while fucking up royally, it's her and her kids at the center of 2 nations, it's her life that must but spared above l else, so on and so on, but if they would just share the burden of screen time more fairly with the others collectively, I think we would end up with some really fantastic stuff. 

That's what they did in season 1 and it worked beautifully. There was a lot more give and take between the characters and they all got a real opportunity to shine individually.

Now, it's the June show, 24/7 coverage, nonstop, and it's become torturous to watch.

I loved this quote here because I think we all have thought and complained about this very same situation:

Quote

But there’s been so much meandering, so much time spent revisiting old ground dressed up like new ground, and (a byproduct of the latter) such frequent disregard by the writers themselves for the dangers posed by the world they’re writing, that it’s hard to get invested. To invest in scenes, in individual performances and character beats, that’s simple. But when even what’s new feels old, investing in the actual events is much harder.

The Handmaid’s Tale hides one interesting story inside a three-story dud

Can someone print out a thousand copies of this and mail half to Littlefield and the other half to Miller?

[AllyB]

I don't know, that article also contained this line; "Moss uses that expressive-as-hell face to chart the ebbs and flows of June’s drive, guilt, self-disgust, and determination, and it’s especially compelling when they co-exist." And I've got to say I just don't see it. I've had no problems with Moss' acting before this season but for the last 7 episodes I've pretty much just seen 'sneering; defiant' and 'sneering; self-satisfied.' That's it. I'm sure it's a weird direction choice rather than her own lack of skill but if my only introduction to Moss was these 7 episodes, I'd think she was an awful, awful, extremely limited actor.

[AnswersWanted]

1 minute ago, AllyB said:

I don't know, that article also contained this line; "Moss uses that expressive-as-hell face to chart the ebbs and flows of June’s drive, guilt, self-disgust, and determination, and it’s especially compelling when they co-exist." And I've got to say I just don't see it. I've had no problems with Moss' acting before this season but for the last 7 episodes I've pretty much just seen 'sneering; defiant' and 'sneering; self-satisfied.' That's it. I'm sure it's a weird direction choice rather than her own lack of skill but if my only introduction to Moss was these 7 episodes, I'd think she was an awful, awful, extremely limited actor.

I saw that and pretended she didn’t say it because I thought the rest of her comments were sound, heh. 

But truthfully, I have resigned myself to the fact that, for some reason, most reviewers of the show think Lizzie is the most amazing actress no matter what she does. Even her fellow costars, the writers, and producers seem to believe it. Why I’m sure even headless Lincoln would agree.../s. 

Personally I don’t think she’s the worst, but she’s certainly never blown my socks off. And this season has definitely done her no favors, I absolutely agree.

Her on screen appeal has become incredibly limited, and frankly she’s become almost intolerable to me. 

I would much rather check in with Sam or Alexis or Ann or even Yvonne than watch another montage of June flaring her nostrils and twisting up her mouth. 

[Caia]

Quote

Sorry, not buying that Canada would bother to negotiate.  First there has to be normal diplomatic relations.  Gilead is an outlaw country.

It is ridiculous that Canada even came to the table, much less allowed the Swiss to negotiate for them.  All Canada has to do is throw down a copy of the North Atlantic Treaty and tell Gilead if they step a toe over the 49th parallel they'll article 5 the shit out of them and British and French nukes will come raining down like hailstones.   Not to mention I'm sure there's some mutual defense clause for being part of the Commonwealth.   It doesn't surprise me that American writers would not realize that Canada would have someone to back them up other than the US.