S03.E07: Under His Eye

[Ashforth]

4 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

Guard 1: Hey, look over there. 

Guard 2: Huh? 

(Both turn to see June screeching like a banshee, strangling OfMathhew as a flurry of red dresses and bonnets surround them to try and pull them apart) 

Guard 2: Oh - yeah. 

Guard 1: Shouldn’t we...do something? 

Guard 2: Naw, it’s all good. They’ve got it handled. 

Guard 1: But...But...

Guard 2: It’s June. 

May I offer a variation to your excellent scenario?

Guard 1: Hey, look over there. 

Guard 2: Huh? 

(Both turn to see June screeching like a banshee, strangling OfMathhew as a flurry of red dresses and bonnets surround them to try and pull them apart) 

Guard 2: Oh - yeah. 

Guard 1: Shouldn’t we...do something? 

Guard 2: Naw, it’s all good. They’ve got it handled. 

Guard 1: But...But...

Guard 2: It’s just June again (rolls eyes)

Guard 1: Oh, right. (shakes head). She is a pain in the neck. Well, for some people. (both laugh)

Guard 2: Do you want to get dinner after work?

Guard 1: Sure, I hear there's going to be a barbecue after the hangings.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Ashforth

[AllyB]

To be fair to the group hangings, that is lifted directly from the movie. The scene is on youtube if anyone is interested.

[tvisme]

On 7/2/2019 at 10:10 PM, Umbelina said:

So, the DC wives are banging the guards?  AND, they are talking about it among themselves?

DC is far more interesting than Boston.

You mean "The Real Housewives of Gilead?"  Yeah, they seem like a fun bunch.

[Trillian]

Minor point addressing some of the comments here:  that was not the Prime Minister whom Emily and Moira approached, but some random Cabinet Minister. My guess is the Minister of Immigration and Citizenship. What said Minister was doing in Toronto, which is not the capital of Canada despite how the show presents it, is not made clear. I guess there’s nothing preventing a federal Cabinet Minister from being in Toronto - I myself have had occasion to meet federal Ministers in this fair city - but the show does seem to meld Toronto and Ottawa when it suits them. 

It’s a shame this show airs in Canada on the Sunday following the Hulu drop, as most of my compatriots are only posting after the discussion has been mainly exhausted. It’s not just the strangeness of seeing Toronto stand in for Gilead and then, in the next scene, be Toronto again half a block away (a disconcerting viewing experience), but the whole take on Canada itself. Sure, Canada could be afraid of a highly-armed neighbour (with a “u”) to the south and want to appease it, but that’s not the Canada the show presented when the Waterfords were unceremoniously turfed in Season 1.  Canada is almost a character in and of itself in this show, and it as ill-formed and thought out as just about every other character. It doesn’t make sense that Canada would set up what seems to be a highly organized system of taking in refugees and then just turn around and consider sending any of them back. It doesn’t fit with anything else we’ve seen of the country in this show. 

[Ashforth]

15 minutes ago, Trillian said:

It doesn’t make sense that Canada would set up what seems to be a highly organized system of taking in refugees and then just turn around and consider sending any of them back. It doesn’t fit with anything else we’ve seen of the country in this show. 

Exactly. For the duration of the show to date, Canada has been welcoming and providing shelter and more to refugees from Gilead.  When their Border Patrol (for lack of a better term) found Emily, they immediately asked if she was seeking asylum, and when she said yes, it was obvious that they were trained that their mission was to take her in and get her and Holly/Nicole to meaningful assistance.

I can potentially see Canada considering that under Gilead's laws, Holly/Nicole is the child of Fred and Serena, and wavering about how to handle that. But appearing to consider extraditing Emily, an escaped prisoner of war, to a regime that would execute or at a minimum further torture her? Not believable at all. And to be clear, I am talking about the Canada in this fictional TV show, not real-life Canada.

Also, where is sexy spy man in this?

[PsychoDrone]

34 minutes ago, Trillian said:

 Canada is almost a character in and of itself in this show, and it as ill-formed and thought out as just about every other character. It doesn’t make sense that Canada would set up what seems to be a highly organized system of taking in refugees and then just turn around and consider sending any of them back. It doesn’t fit with anything else we’ve seen of the country in this show. 

The show is trying to rewrite the characters/events as if the viewers don't/won't remember what came before.  Nick's history, Canada's treatment of the refugees, Gilead's bad state of affairs (internal civil war, nuked out parts of the country, world sanctions), and others.  It's insulting.

Beyond producing children, how is Gilead considered a world power?  It's not a secret what Gilead is doing and easily could be adopted by any other nation.  It could even be done in a humane way.  Since its known the problem is with men, find the ones that are fertile.  They donate the sperm and women willing to be mothers are inseminated.  Problem solved, no government sanctioned rapes, and Gilead would look even worse on the world stage.

The show just keeps trying to elevate the shock value.  "Look  at how bad Gilead is."  Handmaids are now taking part in hangings, and the ultimate jump-the-shark moment, handmaids with their mouths wired shut.  That act makes no logical or practical sense AT ALL.  Last season was ridiculous with the torture porn.  This is not a substitute for telling a good story.

[kieyra]

8 minutes ago, PsychoDrone said:

The show just keeps trying to elevate the shock value.  "Look  at how bad Gilead is."  Handmaids are now taking part in hangings, and the ultimate jump-the-shark moment, handmaids with their mouths wired shut.  That act makes no logical or practical sense AT ALL.  Last season was ridiculous with the torture porn.  This is not a substitute for telling a good story.

And at the same time it wants us to be be emotionally invested in the architects of the society that enslaves, rapes, tortures and murders innocents. It wants us to believe in the nuances and shades of gray of Serena’s motivations and heartbreak. (“It’s okay because she just wants a baby really, really, really bad.”) It wants us to cheer for her redemption arc, when her only redemption would be a swift execution.

I’m sure there are some works of fiction that explore the mindset of, say, high-ranking nazi officials during the holocaust, but I’m not interested in watching them. At a certain point you lose the right to be the hero of your own story, or to have your sad, extenuating circumstances taken into account.

In other words, I don’t need a “fair and balanced view” of the motherfucking Waterfords. 

[violet and green]

Something else that bothers me every week is June's clearly bleached hair, with darker roots. In Gilead... In the previous seasons, when I was invested in her character and really liked the show, I used to ponder this. But now that I don't give a shit about her, really, since dumping Nicole/Holly/Nicole/make-up-your-mind and doing her best ever since to get herself along with anyone else faintly helpful or kind brutally killed -- instead of coming up with a low-lying cunning plan to secure Hannah and escape the joint -- I notice it almost as much as I notice the glowering faces and the gurning. Where do ya get the hair dye in Gilead, I think.

[ferjy]

2 hours ago, PsychoDrone said:

The show is trying to rewrite the characters/events as if the viewers don't/won't remember what came before.  Nick's history, Canada's treatment of the refugees, Gilead's bad state of affairs (internal civil war, nuked out parts of the country, world sanctions), and others.  It's insulting.

Mostly insulting to them. I don’t believe they’re even doing it in hopes we’ve forgotten. They themselves have forgotten. I shake my head so often during this show it’s going to end up loose and spinning faster than Linda Blair’s. What kind of lunkheads are these writers? Did they drop out of grade school?

[ferjy]

9 hours ago, Ashforth said:

And let's talk about that meeting.

(paraphrased)

Interrogator: "Did you stab a woman and push her down the stairs?"

Emily, in trembling voice, "Yes."

How about, "Yes. She is responsible for 'training' women like me who are held captive and forced to be 'Handmaids' who are raped as breeding stock for the ruling class in Gilead. She enforces the 'rules' and directs or personally carries out the torture and mutilation of enslaved women. She cuts out women's tongues, removes their eyes, cuts off their hands. She tortured ME and had me mutilated by removing my clitoris. So when I saw my chance to escape, yes, I did what I felt I had to do."

Oh I like that. Maybe we can organize a coup and take over writing the rest of the series. The ideas on this forum far exceed what these clods have come up with. 

[alexvillage]

14 hours ago, Umbelina said:

What June SAID is they don't punish escapees because they don't acknowledge them, they kill them for some other trumped up charges though.

But she is June and she knows she will not be punished either way, that's how bad the writers missed up with the stories.

13 hours ago, Ashforth said:

And let's talk about that meeting.

(paraphrased)

Interrogator: "Did you stab a woman and push her down the stairs?"

Emily, in trembling voice, "Yes."

How about, "Yes. She is responsible for 'training' women like me who are held captive and forced to be 'Handmaids' who are raped as breeding stock for the ruling class in Gilead. She enforces the 'rules' and directs or personally carries out the torture and mutilation of enslaved women. She cuts out women's tongues, removes their eyes, cuts off their hands. She tortured ME and had me mutilated by removing my clitoris. So when I saw my chance to escape, yes, I did what I felt I had to do."

So much logic!

The  writers are like people who want to prove a theory but their start point is the end result they want. From there, everything is tainted because anyone who is serious about proving anything need to be impartial and unbiased. Or the police framing someone and doing everything to prove their point, until they get what they want. The writers decide that they now want Emily as a criminal, so all the writing will lead to Emily causing her arrest and extradition, and probably believing she was wrong - until the writers decide to change course again. Who knows?

[Trillian]

8 hours ago, Ashforth said:

Also, where is sexy spy man in this?

Where indeed?  In fact, where is any representative of the original American government? They are obviously still around, since our refugee characters met with them briefly.  Why didn’t they accompany Emily to her interrogation by the Swiss?

I was thinking about this when I was thinking about the geography of filming location v real Toronto, as the American Consulate General is about a block away from where they filmed this week’s hanging. It’s a honking big building with blocks on the sidewalk to prevent anyone’s driving up to it and its own opaque glass guard security booth containing, I presume, armed guards or marines or something (or maybe it’s empty and that’s what they want us to think!).  There’s got to be hundreds of people who work there, unless most of it is vacant, and it’s a far cry from the cramped dark rooms where Moira goes to get news. What happened to them, and to the thousands of other embassy and consular staff around the world? Presumably, those with loyalty to the original government would seek asylum in whatever country they found themselves and those loyal to Gilead would - what?  Be thrown out?  Be recognized as reps of the new regime?  

Atwood didn’t have to answer those questions because she wasn’t world-building, but, if the show runners are going to venture out of Gilead and June’s POV, then I think they have to address international politics to tell a coherent story. Instead, they’ve had the original U.S. government kinda disappear, despite passing reference to it’s being still in existence and been unrealistically vague about whether Gilead is recognized or not. 

[Lemons]

It’s to the point where I don’t want June getting either child back.  She has no problem using and abusing any innocent person she can just to get a glimpse of her child as if these people didn’t also lose everything and everybody they love. 

The show would be better if they hung June already.  Let’s get a look at DC and Canada. The bigger picture of what’s going on is much more interesting.  

[greekmom]

I think Emily's smartest move would be to leave Toronto and head for a one way flight to Hawaii or Alaska.  At least as an American citizen she would be safer there than a refugee in Canada. Especially with the Swiss.

Plus I cannot believe with what they know about practices in Gilead that they are even ok with sending back refugees and Nicole.  

I am wondering if it's a reflection on the uncertainty that Jewish people felt at the beginning before WW2.

[Lemons]

22 hours ago, violet and green said:

Something else that bothers me every week is June's clearly bleached hair, with darker roots. In Gilead... In the previous seasons, when I was invested in her character and really liked the show, I used to ponder this. But now that I don't give a shit about her, really, since dumping Nicole/Holly/Nicole/make-up-your-mind and doing her best ever since to get herself along with anyone else faintly helpful or kind brutally killed -- instead of coming up with a low-lying cunning plan to secure Hannah and escape the joint -- I notice it almost as much as I notice the glowering faces and the gurning. Where do ya get the hair dye in Gilead, I think.

The hair was especially noticeable when they showed her from a camera above her.  She had a beautiful shade of blonde with 1” darker roots.  They show unflattering shots of her face all the time but can’t let the hair get too mousy!  

What bugs me as much is the city backdrop where they did the hangings.  They make several Boston references yet they show scenes that are nothing like Boston or Brookline. 

[Miles]

On 7/6/2019 at 9:15 PM, Umbelina said:

2.  Piling everyone in and fucking driving to Alaska (a little vacation if asked.)  Supplies and money and go.

I don't think going to Alaska is such a great idea either. What happens when the rest of the US loses? Gilead seems to be gaining ground.

In thhe real world, I'd say stay put in Canada. There is no way they are going to extradite refuges. In the world of the show, that runs on drama, I'd say do everything you can to get on a flight to europe. It's probably not going to be easy, but your life might depend on it.

Speaking of the extradition drama. Where is Oprah in all of this? She is a Gileaden refugee in Canada. Why the hell don't we hear from her? There is no way she wouldn't throw her weight around.

On 7/6/2019 at 6:42 PM, Ashforth said:

Because the show is about June, a Handmaid, living in Gilead. The book was about June in Gilead and I am sure that the show is going to stay focused on June in Gilead. They could certainly do a better job of it, but imo June won't be living in Canada in the foreseeable future.

What kind of argument is that? Shows have to evolve, otherwise they become stale. Case in point this show.

The story from the book, a Handmaid living in Gilead, was told and done after season one. There is a reason why Atwood ended it where she did. There wasn't more to tell from June's perspective.

On 7/6/2019 at 10:31 PM, Ashforth said:

How about, "Yes. She is responsible for 'training' women like me who are held captive and forced to be 'Handmaids' who are raped as breeding stock for the ruling class in Gilead. She enforces the 'rules' and directs or personally carries out the torture and mutilation of enslaved women. She cuts out women's tongues, removes their eyes, cuts off their hands. She tortured ME and had me mutilated by removing my clitoris. So when I saw my chance to escape, yes, I did what I felt I had to do."

I mean the swiss should know what an aunt does... then aggain, all other countries seem to have forgotten what goes on in Gilead this season, so, maybe not... god this is stupid.

On 7/7/2019 at 12:48 AM, AllyB said:

To be fair to the group hangings, that is lifted directly from the movie. The scene is on youtube if anyone is interested.

I don't think them stealing scenes from the movie is a checkmark in the plus column. It goes against what they had established on the show so far.

On 7/7/2019 at 4:23 AM, PsychoDrone said:

Since its known the problem is with men, find the ones that are fertile. 

That's not a thing on the show. On the show there is a legit problem with many women being infertile. Mexico isn't a supersticious backwater shithole like Gilead and they haven't had any babies in years. (presumably because the radioactive fallout hit them harder than it hit the US east coast)

[greekmom]

7 hours ago, Miles said:

That's not a thing on the show. On the show there is a legit problem with many women being infertile. Mexico isn't a supersticious backwater shithole like Gilead and they haven't had any babies in years. (presumably because the radioactive fallout hit them harder than it hit the US east coast)

My thoughts went there too in regards to why Commander whatshisface has so many children (as well as the family who had the abandoned home in Washington DC) while others in areas such as Boston are struggling just to have one.

It was sad when the Martha from the McKenzie's was executed.  I hope OfMatthew wakes up and gets off the koolaid.

[Ashforth]

6 hours ago, Miles said:

On 7/6/2019 at 11:42 AM, Ashforth said:

Because the show is about June, a Handmaid, living in Gilead. The book was about June in Gilead and I am sure that the show is going to stay focused on June in Gilead. They could certainly do a better job of it, but imo June won't be living in Canada in the foreseeable future.

What kind of argument is that? Shows have to evolve, otherwise they become stale. Case in point this show.

The story from the book, a Handmaid living in Gilead, was told and done after season one. There is a reason why Atwood ended it where she did. There wasn't more to tell from June's perspective.

Oh, I agree that the show should do a much, much better job, but I do think there's a lot of story to tell that they could do it with June as the central character in an ongoing exploration of Gilead. They've fucked it up.

I mean let's face it, Moss is the star, she's a producer of the show, the original source material is about her character, June isn't going anywhere. I'm not advocating for that, just acknowledging what I think is inevitable.

[SourK]

On 7/3/2019 at 1:12 AM, rideashire said:

I really like Lawrence's wife. I hope nothing bad happens to her. She's a little off her meds but she tried to help June in her half baked plan, called her by her real name and even apologized afterward like it was all her fault (which it's not).

I'm wondering if she's literally off her meds. Gilead might not believe in psychiatry.

On 7/3/2019 at 7:04 AM, alexvillage said:

"Nevertheless, the Swiss diplomats are interviewing Emily, asking her about anything she might have done that the Gileadean state would view as a crime. Gilead is attempting to paint the refugees as criminals rather than refugees so that they can be extradited and tried (or returned to slavery, rape and torture)." 

To answer the part in bold - existing as a woman. Gilead sees women as criminals. What a travesty, the writers are not even pretending there is a great book they are supposedly expanding on.

The way the scene was set up, with her wife hovering in the background, seemingly learning about this stuff for the first time, I thought she was about to say she'd been arrested for having sex with a Martha so that they could both cry in extreme closeup.

I wish we were spending more time on this story, because I do think the angle they're working this episode -- where the wife is like, "Nothing that happened in Gilead matters to me; we can just move on" and Emily is like, "Everything that happened in Gilead matters a lot and I'm not the same person anymore" -- is super interesting.

On 7/3/2019 at 3:18 PM, Umbelina said:

June didn't kill her.  Gilead did. 

I agree, and, in the past, I've been annoyed when the show tried to make June responsible for Gilead murdering it's own citizens. It's not her fault if the government kills people. That said... I kind of feel like this one was a little bit June's fault?

At the start of season two, she made a serious, good faith attempt to escape, and it went wrong, and people got killed. This time, she exposed everyone for no reason by showing up at Hannah's school when she didn't have a plan for what to do when she got there. Seeing Hannah wouldn't have helped anyone, including June, but it put lots of people at risk, and one of them died. She didn't kill that person, but she wasn't very careful with that person's life, either.

On 7/3/2019 at 4:14 PM, AnswersWanted said:

Apparently husbands and wives can’t do the nasty, but they are allowed to fucking Tango and that’s permitted? Say what?

The sense I'm getting is that there are regional differences in which of the rules are emphasized and how they're enforced. So, in DC, the sexual stuff seems to be more relaxed if you're reasonably circumspect about it (hence that dude from Oz putting the moves on Fred). This is actually a sign that DC might be a better fit for the Waterfords, since their whole philosophy toward following the rules of Gilead has mostly been "If nobody sees it, nobody gets mad."

As for doing the tango at a party, I can buy that, too. There are already places in the world where it's officially wrong to do things like that in public but, if you go to a rich person party behind closed doors, the rules are relaxed.

The Grand Seduction of the Waterfords is not a plot line I was salivating to see, but I admit the pieces are all coming together to show us that life in DC -- for the privileged class -- is much closer to what they imagined when they helped build Gilead. The rules don't apply to them and they can maintain something closer to the lifestyle the had before as long as they pretend to be pious in public.

On 7/3/2019 at 11:39 PM, tennisgurl said:

The scene with Serena in the house of the family she and her creeps tossed out was quite creepy and disturbing, and reminded me, oh yeah, this show can actually be subtle and disturbing.

It was a good scene, but it also reminded me of a very similar scene in Quills (which is set right after the French Revolution). I liked the Quills scene a little more because it was understated -- the camera tracks across the evidence that the home's previous owners were literally dragged out of the building, but nobody mentions it. Here, I wish they had trusted us more to understand what was up without explaining it.

On 7/4/2019 at 1:28 AM, mamadrama said:

I was half expecting some Marvin Gaye when NotBenson lead Serena into the master bedroom...

Yeah, there was part of me that thought, "Maybe this is just how couples pick each other up in religious dictatorships..."

On 7/5/2019 at 4:32 PM, Miles said:

She should have gone to Canada and woked from there to get her daughter back. What did she hope to achieve by staying in Gilead? All things considered, this worked out way better than could be expected, because of her thick, thick plot armour.

I understand and can get behind June's decision to stay in Gilead, but, for me, I think the issue is more that I would like her to either have an actual plan to get Hannah back OR admit that she doesn't and that it's harder than she thought and maybe she screwed herself by staying, but she has to try, etc.

So, either we're watching her slowly gear up to rescue her kid, or we're watching her slowly despair that she made a mistake and won't be able to rescue her kid after all.

Instead, I feel like we're watching her do random stuff that's somewhere in between having a plan and not having a plan, and there's no a lot of momentum.

On 7/5/2019 at 5:05 PM, Umbelina said:

She SHOULD have sent Hannah's new name and family to Luke in that tape though, but it's possible she was interrupted while taping, especially since soon after, Lawrence and his wife were listening to a tape.

I had the same thought, and I'm hoping that info is on the tape and we just didn't hear the whole message. I could see a possible direction for this story where Gilead offers to trade Hannah for Nicole, and set a precedent that the old kids still belong to their parents but the new kids belong to Gilead.

The reason I don't think that will happen is because it would anger too many of the people who kidnapped pre-existing kids. But it would have taken Luke in an interesting direction if he was faced with the possibility of getting his daughter by blood in exchange for the daughter he's adopted and been caring for.

On 7/6/2019 at 12:42 PM, Ashforth said:

Because the show is about June, a Handmaid, living in Gilead. The book was about June in Gilead and I am sure that the show is going to stay focused on June in Gilead. They could certainly do a better job of it, but imo June won't be living in Canada in the foreseeable future.

I agree with you that the show totally won't send June to Canada any time soon, but, reading the thread, I'm starting to feel like season three would have been a lot more interesting if it had.

I think there are interesting and timely stories to be told about the refugee situation in Canada, and June could have been a really good part of that since she's kind of an agitator now. Plus, it would be interesting to see how her relationship with Luke changes when they're back together and raising Nick's baby.

In Gilead, they could have split the action between Serena trying to choose between the fantasy of the world she wanted to live in in Gilead vs the reality of what Gilead has become and her need to either escape or destroy it (without trying to get Nicole back) + a plot line about Rita working with the Marthas to resist.

I think it depends on whether you see the show as ideally being about The Situation with Gilead, explored from lots of different angles, or That One Handmaid Who Resists Gilead (which is, I think, what the show runners have chosen).

[Jen Ren]

Some of you guys are acting like you think that resisting in Gilead should be easy or something! 

Having said that... I'm going to agree with a few points. When June choked the snitch Handmaid, her walking partner, guards should have been swarming all over her, dragging her off to have an eye poked out or her clit snipped. Instead she walks off. I'm wondering what we'll see in the next episode... some opening scene of torture? If they remove one of June's eyes, how will she glare at the camera as effectively? 

As far as Hannah and the school visit, I have to believe that June's original intention was to check the place out and maybe get a glimpse of Hannah from afar. I think Lawrence's wife having a mini breakdown is how that plan went south fast. But June should have known better than to rely on a mentally unstable woman, no matter how friendly to the cause she appears to be. At this point, utmost caution should be taken lest June end up chained to a bed in a barren room, existing only for her womb (didn't we see that in season 1 or 2 for a misbehaving Handmaid?). Hell, I'm surprised at this point that hasn't happened. 

I actually enjoyed the beginning of season 3 better than season 1 and 2. Seasons 1 & 2 seemed to be a continuous loop of "June escapes" and "June is back". Season 3 shows us a bit more but yeah... at this point it's becoming a bit of a chore to watch. We need to know what Lawrence's intentions are because frankly he's becoming more annoying than anything (and what a waste of a good character and actor) and what the hell is going on with Canada and more political backstory if they are indeed planning to extradite refugees that escaped Gilead. 

[Jen Ren]

On 7/7/2019 at 6:22 AM, Trillian said:

Atwood didn’t have to answer those questions because she wasn’t world-building, but, if the show runners are going to venture out of Gilead and June’s POV, then I think they have to address international politics to tell a coherent story. Instead, they’ve had the original U.S. government kinda disappear, despite passing reference to it’s being still in existence and been unrealistically vague about whether Gilead is recognized or not. 

I couldn't agree more! 

[Umbelina]

51 minutes ago, Jen Ren said:

I actually enjoyed the beginning of season 3 better than season 1 and 2. Seasons 1 & 2 seemed to be a continuous loop of "June escapes" and "June is back". Season 3 shows us a bit more but yeah... at this point it's becoming a bit of a chore to watch. We need to know what Lawrence's intentions are because frankly he's becoming more annoying than anything (and what a waste of a good character and actor) and what the hell is going on with Canada and more political backstory if they are indeed planning to extradite refugees that escaped Gilead. 

I did too, and I saw them "setting a decent table" for the future until this last episode.

Once it was established that Switzerland was actually participating in this "give Serena her baby back" nonsense, and that Winslow's real goal was an extradition treaty for anyone Gilead wanted back?

It just lost me, and made me want to scream.  If this had been a spying mission to "see inside the black box of the real power structure of Gilead" it would have been so much more realistic to me.  Sigh.

As far as June not being punished?  The episode ended, I'm sure something will happen to her, no lasting physical damage that's visible though because that is WAY too much make up time and CGI for the lead character.  

Meanwhile, we still don't have a clue about Lawrence, and now we have Winslow! 

I still have some hopes for more of the resistance, especially since Nick is supposed to be fighting them, and is obviously, at the very least, conflicted about Gilead, and probably a spy.  So maybe we will finally see that world.

I've just about written off Canada, I want action and sense, and that's as lacking there as in Gilead with June.  I wish Spy Guy was more in this story, and it's very odd that he isn't , until you realize that would mean these bozo writers actually world building, instead of doing "characters feelings" all the damn time, at the expense of common sense.

This COULD still be saved, but alas, not with these showrunners. 

ETA, I also didn't believe or buy into June's actions at the school.  Had it been the VERY first time June was near Hannah?  Maybe I'd buy her having an emotional breakdown instead of keeping her wits about her, but she JUST SAW HANNAH.

Making June stupid is just beyond me, mistakes are one thing, but throwing away the progress she's made, or her realizations about the stakes involved is such complete and utter nonsense. 
All for the cinematic moment, which happens far too often on this could-be-wonderful show.

Style over substance.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Umbelina

[Catfi9ht]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I've just about written off Canada, I want action and sense, and that's as lacking there as in Gilead with June.  I wish Spy Guy was more in this story, and it's very odd that he isn't , until you realize that would mean these bozo writers actually world building, instead of doing "characters feelings" all the damn time, at the expense of common sense.

Ditto. Canada could be brought into the picture so easily in a myriad of creative ways.

I haven't read every post in all the threads so I'm sure someone has already suggested it, but why not have a plot about Moira creating a YouTube channel with videos of survivors' interviews? You could still talk about and show the horrors of Gilead using flashbacks without focusing on the same damn people doing the same damn things all the damn time.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Catfi9ht
Removed a weird black background. No idea why that showed up.

[rubinia]

22 hours ago, Lemons said:

The hair was especially noticeable when they showed her from a camera above her.  She had a beautiful shade of blonde with 1” darker roots.  They show unflattering shots of her face all the time but can’t let the hair get too mousy!  

What bugs me as much is the city backdrop where they did the hangings.  They make several Boston references yet they show scenes that are nothing like Boston or Brookline. 

In the second hanging scene I saw Trinity Church in the background.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 7/3/2019 at 11:39 PM, tennisgurl said:

So Fred and Serena can do a whole tango in the middle of the Gilead elite? Dancing, especially sexy latin dancing, is ok in this world? Really? 

What was up with that. Even the damn Footloose town  banned dancing and no one there was talking about blessed be the fruit. I am really not sure if this scen was supposed to show how the commanders are giant hypocrites or if the writers can't keep their shit straight.

On 7/5/2019 at 4:32 PM, Miles said:

I have to say, I don't buy the extradition talks with Gilead, at all. No civilised country would even consider it. All of europe (and I assume Canada) won't even extradite to the US, if somebody might get the death penalty there. Which is also why the US carefully crafted it's indictments against Julian Assange, so that the possible punishment is "only" a few hundret years in prison, but not death, which would be possible for treason.

As a rule we shouldn't extradite to the US at all, because the prison system employs torture (solidary confinement, accaptence / encouragement od rape, etc.) but I guess the US is too powerfull politically and too much of an ally to completely deny extradition. I don't see that with Gilead. Their economy is a shitshow and they aren't going to militarily attack a nuclear power. So what leverage do they have? Nothing.

Yea Gilead setting up an extradition treaty with Canada would be a huge deal. As mentioned, Canada won't extradite people facing the death penalty back to the US now, and they are our ally. And it is not even just a government policy thing, the supreme court actually ruled that sending someone back to a country to face execution is unconstitutional.

As for the actual hangings we saw, I really thought it was going to be some insane version of a Survivor challenge where the people on the gallows weren't going to drop until it got to the point where the handmaids could no longer hold the ropes.

[Umbelina]

54 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

What was up with that. Even the damn Footloose town  banned dancing and no one there was talking about blessed be the fruit. I am really not sure if this scen was supposed to show how the commanders are giant hypocrites or if the writers can't keep their shit straight.

I'm positive it's the latter.

I have been having this weird thought that Serena, Fred, and June will be moving to DC, and Serena, at first enchanted with the place, begins to see that not only was her "vision" for a God Fearing world where men are men and the rest of the bullshit she preached and wrote about, unworkable and frankly horrible?  It's all based on hypocrisy, and as a way to control the masses, that the REAL power in Gilead doesn't believe in a single thing Gilead is supposed to stand for.

So it will be her crisis of the soul...and yawn.

54 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

As for the actual hangings we saw, I really thought it was going to be some insane version of a Survivor challenge where the people on the gallows weren't going to drop until it got to the point where the handmaids could no longer hold the ropes.

Well, at least we've be spared that!  Ha!

I will say that group killings were a thing in the book, and in season one and two as well.  Hanging is downright merciful when compared to literally tearing a person into shreds, or stoning them to death.

Those Commanders actually were discussing upping the killings as a way to keep "them" in line, which?  Obviously they have.

4 hours ago, Catfi9ht said:

I haven't read every post in all the threads so I'm sure someone has already suggested it, but why not have a plot about Moira creating a YouTube channel with videos of survivors' interviews? You could still talk about and show the horrors of Gilead using flashbacks without focusing on the same damn people doing the same damn things all the damn time.

Yes, I've been saying that since Moira got to Canada, and frankly, I probably said it when Luke got there with silent Erin.  Why aren't they involved with the world.  It's at their fingertips, they have computers, they have TV and telephones, and not one person in Canada has done more than go to protests. 

It's so unbelievable it's almost funny.  It's not though, it's just sad.  Moira alone could blow the lid off this place by naming names and talking about Jezebels.

They were SO very excited about letters from those trapped in Gilead, yet there are hundreds of escapees who can actually speak, make videos, be interviewed by an (I'm positive) fascinated world press.  Hell, they don't even talk to their embassy or their fellow "Americans."

Edited July 9, 2019 by Umbelina
the not they

[Umbelina]

Why haven't they even set up some kind of "go fund me" to try to save their stolen children trapped in Gilead, or to raise money for the resistance? 

Hell, if they had a YouTube channel or did interviews, they could also make money on both of those, I'm sure sponsors would line up for them, and many tabloids still pay for interviews.

Why aren't they telling people about the priests and nuns being murdered, the "gender traitors" being hung for no reason other that that?  Actually why aren't they telling about the martyrs of many different faiths being killed?  In the book Jewish people

Spoiler

were sent home (to Israel) on sinking ships or thrown overboard by profiteers so they could go back for more to dump overboard in order to make even more money.  Israel has no problem with that?

  The world isn't interested in that?  Hell, that house belonged to Baptists!

Nah, much better to sit around bitching at Canada and protesting.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Umbelina

[Cranberry]

This is a reminder to keep your discussion and debate to the show and not to how you think other posters should watch or post. Also, if you see a problem post, please report it without engaging -- we had to hide some posts today that were fine aside from the fact that they quoted a removed post. Thanks!

[jenn31]

16 hours ago, Jen Ren said:

Some of you guys are acting like you think that resisting in Gilead should be easy or something! 

I’m perplexed at this comment. Can you be more specific about what you are referring to, or give some examples maybe? From everything I’ve read here, people are saying the exact opposite (as you do yourself in your next paragraph). Resisting is hard yet the writers are making it seem easy (for June at least) as June keeps doing and getting away with things scot-free. Maybe I’m misunderstanding your comment. 

[ferjy]

On 7/6/2019 at 5:50 PM, AnswersWanted said:

June: YOU BITCHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Guard 2: See, she’s just making a new friend.

Ha, priceless! I think I figured it out. The guards were wooden decoys. No other reasonable explanation. As I was watching I was holding my breath expecting them to fly down in a rush, with Aunt Lydia already there ready to beat June with her stick, and all mayhem breaking loose. I thought, June has finally gone too far and I was dreading what might come next. Then she walks away. {blink} My own fault, I should have learned by now. 

[ferjy]

On 7/8/2019 at 2:09 AM, Miles said:

In the world of the show, that runs on drama, I'd say do everything you can to get on a flight to europe.

Normally I would have said head for Switzerland. But now, well... They’ve really made a mess of this show. 

[Trillian]

12 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

As for the actual hangings we saw, I really thought it was going to be some insane version of a Survivor challenge where the people on the gallows weren't going to drop until it got to the point where the handmaids could no longer hold the ropes.

I didnt know whether to like your post - the beginning of which I agree with, especially the part about extradition to face the death penalty, or to give it a “funny” face for the above. 

So I opted for a “like” and this reply to tell you that I spit out my coffee laughing over it and now can’t get the image out of my head. In fact, so many of the “clever”  deaths on this show could fit that meme (eg Eden’s) that I think I’d prefer the spin off Survivor: Gilead to what’s being done this season. 

[marinw]

Late to the party here, apologies if thease points have already been covered:

Why force the pregnant lady to participate in the hanging? I KNOW pregnant women can and do perform all sorts of physical things, but Gilead must be so cautious about these things. Because woman are such delicate, stupid creatures who must be completely controlled.

Will Moira and Emily become a couple, as they bond over their shared trauma? I could see that happening, which will break Sylvia’s heart. Clea Duvall is so different then she was on VEEP!

What kind of work did Moira do “Before”? It was mentioned that she now works at the refugee intake centre.

Mrs. Lawrence is the first Wife I actually feel badly for. With Serena I feel mostly Schadenfreude.

[Hanahope]

I don't understand why Sylvia hasn't hugged Emily.  I know Emily has suffered immense trauma, but really, not even a hug?  Even if Sylvia has moved on (and there was no evidence of that we were shown - and clearly the son still thinks of Emily as a mother too), or Emily doesn't want to 'be a couple' anymore you'd think Sylvia would still hug Emily.

Why was the girls' school like a prison camp.  Armed guarded towers?  Really? We've seen nothing to suggest that anyone has a snowball chance in hell of sneaking a child out.

I suppose that it must be all male wait and kitchen staff at the restaurant since women can't hold jobs.

We get all these surface views, but no actual background/supporting facts.  

[marinw]

Just now, Hanahope said:

I suppose that it must be all male wait and kitchen staff at the restaurant since women can't hold jobs.

Were the muscians at the dance all male? 

[Hanahope]

Just now, marinw said:

Were the muscians at the dance all male? 

I tried to look.  I think so, but we didn't see very much.

[AngelaHunter]

I kept nodding off and waking up just to see snow and cold and endless close-ups and overhead shots and slo-mo. I thought I was watching the last ep over again with the repeat of the hanging scene.  Oh, and I caught the soiree in Washington with the big "We're so much in love" dance. Luckily Serena's gloves hid her chopped-off finger.

"Tonight we're gonna party like it's 1849."

[endure]

On 7/3/2019 at 12:20 PM, Umbelina said:

I hope the fucking showrunner sees this.  How many tweeted it directly to him?

OMG some of June's expressions were right over the top this episode I actually had to LOL a few times!

[Ashforth]

32 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

"Tonight we're gonna party like it's 1849."

HAHAHAHA! Serena and Fred should really have done this:

You have to suffer through some pandering at the beginning and a crazy attempt at the end to pretend it's spontaneous, but I think it's so fun. Rita and Serena really bring it! June is not a great dancer LOL.

You can't miss Moss's last line.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Ashforth

[secnarf]

4 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I don't understand why Sylvia hasn't hugged Emily.  I know Emily has suffered immense trauma, but really, not even a hug?  Even if Sylvia has moved on (and there was no evidence of that we were shown - and clearly the son still thinks of Emily as a mother too), or Emily doesn't want to 'be a couple' anymore you'd think Sylvia would still hug Emily.

They hugged when they first met up again. And now I think Sylvia is trying to give Emily space.

My thoughts on Emily's storyline, as that is the only one I care about anymore - I was not surprised she went to join the protest. She was a part of Mayday in Gilead. She seems like the kind of person who does better with an external place to focus herself - her work, Mayday, taking care of the others in the colonies, escape, etc. Since she has been to Canada, she hasn't really had a focus or thing she can work towards that is external to herself. Starting to protest gives her back that focus and I think is in keeping with the character that was a part of Mayday.

As for why she and the other refugees aren't leaving - having to uproot themselves a second time would not be easy, and despite their previous experiences, it is still very easy to lull yourself into that false sense of security and 'it can't happen here, not again'.

[AngelaHunter]

On 7/8/2019 at 3:45 PM, Umbelina said:

As far as June not being punished?  The episode ended, I'm sure something will happen to her

When she got back to the house, I was thinking, "Someone's gonna get a whuppin'!"
 

Quote

On 7/6/2019 at 5:50 PM, AnswersWanted said:

June: YOU BITCHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

I believe it was actually, "You fucking bitch!" The guards must be deaf since I'm pretty sure that language would not be permitted.

On 7/8/2019 at 10:00 PM, Umbelina said:

Why aren't they telling people about the priests and nuns being murdered, the "gender traitors" being hung for no reason other that that? 

I guess they never thought about mentioning that or the rapes or the mutiliations/torture/forced breeding and instead choose sitting around whining to each other/firing off witty repartee and arranging protests where they curse at the people who took them in, fed, housed and gave them medical care. Oh, well.

Was June actually planning on making contact with Hannah, or just viewing her from a distance to see if she is okay? If it's the former that would be incredibly selfish, since, in the child's eyes, her mother would be abandoning her for the third time.

[AngelaHunter]

14 minutes ago, Ashforth said:

You can't miss Moss's last line.

I wonder if that was a slip of the tongue? I get it, though, and concur.

[goldilocks]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

“Tonight we're gonna party like it's 1849."

What is that from? Or is it a saying?

[AngelaHunter]

On 7/3/2019 at 8:56 PM, Umbelina said:

For another, why hasn't Luke bothered to do anything to get Hannah back?  Not one damn thing.

I mentioned that very thing. He's like some over-aged millennial hipster snowflake who sits spouting off jargon, using words like "problematic" and probably refusing to accept that anything at all could be his fault or responsibility.

8 minutes ago, goldilocks said:

What is that from? Or is it a saying?

It's from Weird Al's "Amish Paradise", only it's actually 1699. I felt that might be a touch overboard so changed it 1849.😁

[Ashforth]

17 minutes ago, goldilocks said:

What is that from? Or is it a saying?

Prince. From his iconic song 1999.

[jenn31]

54 minutes ago, Ashforth said:

You can't miss Moss's last line.

You and half the people here, Lizzie.

[Ashforth]

17 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

It's from Weird Al's "Amish Paradise", only it's actually 1699. I felt that might be a touch overboard so changed it 1849.😁

I guess I really am that old 😳. Prince was all that occurred to me.

Topic? The dance in the episode was just odd.

[goldilocks]

11 minutes ago, Ashforth said:

Prince. From his iconic song 1999.

It’s the 1849 that confused me. 

[AngelaHunter]

45 minutes ago, Ashforth said:

I guess I really am that old 😳. Prince was all that occurred to me.

Oh, I remember that for sure. But the Weird Al (altered)line seemed more fitting for the type of party we saw on the show. 😆

45 minutes ago, goldilocks said:

It’s the 1849 that confused me.

On the second viewing of the scene, perhaps I should have left it as 1699.

[lucindabelle]

I just assumed 1849- the year of revolutions all over Europe, as well as a Prince reference.

clearly I am overeducated. 

(1848 was really big year but they were still going on in 1849 so I was all cool cool)

Edited July 10, 2019 by lucindabelle