S04.E11: Kicked To The Curb

[RealReality]

Why is Debbie mad that Larissa didn't share the status of her case with her?  I don't see how any of that is really her business?  She was not involved in that situation at all, and it's between her son and his wife.  Larissa doesn't owe her an explanation.  If anyone should tell Debbie it should be Colt.  They didn't use Debbie's money as far as I know and that's the only way I could see it being her business.  Why does she think she is Larissa's confidant?  

This is the same as the situation with Larissa having kids and another example of  why Debbie needs a hobby or a social life.  Why does Larissa owe her information about her marriage?  You can ask, but if someone says no, keep it moving.

On another note, I'm probably getting played, but this opening scene with Pedro and chantal is the most reasonable she has ever sounded.  I was shocked to hear her say she would even talk to her family.  It makes me think that a lot of this was a setup because no one who is capable of such level headed thinking would have such a dogged and stubborn insistence that Chantals family did absolutely nothing wrong. 

I only watched Pao and Russ's scenes because I read about them here.  Pao wants free fucking maid service.  If I were Russ's mom I would nope right out of there.  I would book a hotel until I could get a flight back home or I'd enjoy Miami for a few days.  If pao wants a maid then they should pay for a maid service.  

Russ having to sneak his mom the baby like some jailhouse contraband is ridiculous.  If pao is worried about axel getting sick how the hell does she have a full camera crew there?

Edited July 9, 2019 by RealReality

[DaphneCat]

5 hours ago, Toaster Strudel said:

6 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

But, I think slamming a door has been considered rude in every culture throughout history that has had doors.  

Exactly. Where I come from, no one ever slams doors. The rare times it may happen, it would be quite shocking.

I am they youngest of 7.  If there were an Olympic tag-team door slamming competition my family would have won the GOLD.  And Debbie was right when she said "I didn't slam the door.  THIS is slamming the door."  I really think Larissa is picking that particular thing because it is easy to say her perception was that Debbie slammed the door.

[iwasish]

1 minute ago, RealReality said:

Why is Debbie mad that Larissa didn't share the status of her case with her?  I don't see how any of that is really her business?  She was not involved in that situation at all, and it's between her son and his wife.  Larissa doesn't owe her an explanation.  If anyone should tell Debbie it should be Colt.  They didn't use Debbie's money as far as I know and that's the only way I could see it being her business.  Why does she think she is Larissa's confidant?  

This is the same as the situation with Larissa having kids and another example of  why Debbie needs a hobby or a social life.  Why does Larissa owe her information about her marriage?  You can ask, but if someone says no, keep it moving.

On another note, I'm probably getting played, but this opening scene with Pedro and chantal is the most reasonable she has ever sounded.  I was shocked to hear her say she would even talk to her family.  It makes me think that a lot of this was a setup because no one who is capable of such level headed thinking would have such a dogged and stubborn insistence that Chantals family did absolutely nothing wrong. 

I only watched Pao and Russ's scenes because I read about them here.  Pao wants free fucking maid service.  If I were Russ's mom I would nope right out of there.  I would book a hotel until I could get a flight back home or I'd enjoy Miami for a few days.  If pao wants a maid then they should pay for a maid service.  

Russ having to sneak his mom the baby like some jailhouse contraband is ridiculous.

Reminds me of I Love Lucy when she smuggled a log of cheese or salami back from Italy disguised as a baby.

Russ needs to make a fake baby and put it in Axel’s crib and then hide in the bathroom with his mom and the real baby. 

Actually he needs to send  Mother Pao back to Colombia  and  set Pao straight, and start looking for a job in Oklahoma. 

[bravofan27]

Debbie is slamming doors because she knows it pisses off Larissa. Larissa knows ignoring Debbie and grooming pisses off Debbie, so she ignores Debbie and grooms. 

Coltee should have better prepared his mom for a wife. It's like bringing home a new baby or a kitten if you have a dog. You need to spend some time preparing so it's not just major shock. 

Larissa was a major shock to Debbie. I'm not sure who to blame, but I think that Coltee made poor decisions all around and tried to have his cake and eat it too. Now he's sitting in it. 

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, iwasish said:

Reminds me of I Love Lucy when she smuggled a log of cheese or salami back from Italy disguised as a baby.

Russ needs to make a fake baby and put it in Axel’s crib and then hide in the bathroom with his mom and the real baby. 

Actually he needs to send  Mother Pao back to Colombia  and  set Pao straight, and start looking for a job in Oklahoma. 

I'm annoyed on behalf of mother Russ because this bitch for real basically said she wants free maid service and nothing more.  Girl, GTFOH with that! 

Your baby, fresh out your cooch and defenseless to the world had a damn cameraman up in his face and you're worried about russ's mom holding the baby?  No worries about where a cameraman may have been and whether or not he may have coughed or sneezed out some germs?  But Russ's mom, living a quiet and simple life in okalahoma may be the one bringing all the cooties?  Girl, bye.

ETA -- oh, I see so this isn't about Pao having baby bonding time or fear of germs.  This is about Pao using her child to payback a slight from when she first got married.  You're a real class act to use your baby as a pawn Pao.

Edited July 9, 2019 by RealReality

[RealReality]

Wow, everytime I think Ashley couldn't sink lower....she does.

So, Ashley, 12 years jays senior, with all the access to the money and better acquainted with the legal system makes sure to get legal advice about her options for ending the marriage. 

But she wants 20 year old jay, from another country and with no money to sign these legal documents without understanding his rights or how a divorce may or may not affect his legal rights in this country?   He couldn't even get a minute to read them before she was right in his face demanding that he sign a legal document without the chance to counsult legal counsel.  Documents he could not possibly understand the ramifications of.  I think duress is a contract defense and while he may not have an airtight case, I think he has a decent case.

This fucking basic bitch.  Oh and if he doesn't sign the papers RIGHT NOW and without getting a chance for legal counsel she will ensure he is homeless, broke and hungry.  If he doesn't leave the house, which is a place he likely has a legal right to be, she will call the cops again on him. 

So basically, go sleep on the freezing ass streets of PA and go hungry or do what I tell you to do.  Oh and by the bye, go hungry and homeless in a freezing city that I've told you full of racists who hate us for being an interracial couple.  She is a garbage human being, truly garbage.

This fucking trash bag knows full fucking well that the money for Jay's appearance on the show goes to her and not him so, by rights he is owed some part of that money and therefore he should not be going hungry and homeless.  

But Ashley, once again uses the imbalance of power to get her way.  She is such a piece of human garbage.  She makes me stabby.

Edited July 9, 2019 by RealReality

[heatherchandler]

Aside from Lidia looking like a reanimated corpse covered in clay, she also looks thoroughly EXHAUSTED at all times.  Morning, afternoon, night.. her eyes are always juuuuust about to close.

[zenme]

Larissa, Chantal, and Pao, before making your clothing purchases, just get the next size up. I know you’re reaching for those smalls, but go ahead and grab a medium.  Your clothing makes me feel claustrophobic. 

[RealReality]

8 hours ago, bravofan27 said:

Confession: I groomed my husband and he's older than me. I had to. He was a total idiot when I met him. I'm actually still grooming him, 10 years later.

I can't help but like Andrei. I like Libby's father a lot as well. I like Libby. Her sister's seem like shit stirrers and greedy for camera time. I don't doubt they love Libby, but they are DEFINITELY eating up the camera time and going for the Grammy. Libby's dad seems genuine, but he's kind of a jerk to Andrei. Men don't really like other men encroaching on their territory.

Did them bitches wash their hands before they held the baby?  

I was thinking back and I remember not even thinking about being in the birthing room with my sister and she and I are pretty close. 

When my brother's wife gave birth it was just her and him.  Her mother is a nurse and would have been an amazing person to have but she wasn't put out by it at all.

Meh, different strokes I guess.

[RealReality]

14 hours ago, antfitz said:

 Pedro no more fell in love with her than I did.

If Pedro had ended up with Molly or a "Molly type" then I would be more inclined to believe this was all a set up.

I think the obvious mark if you want someone desperate enough to be willing to go along with such a setup is not someone as young and as conventionally attractive as Chantal.  Fair or unfair, she has plenty if other romantic options so she isn't going to be thirsty enough to put up with nonsense like Molly.

If Lidia and Nicole were setting Pedro up to meet an American I bet they are sorry they missed out on Molly.  Pedro is much better looking and far more likable than Luis.  And it looks like Molly is established and makes good money....those two would have been harvesting so many more American dollars.

Edited July 9, 2019 by RealReality

[shockermolar]

48 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Did them bitches wash their hands before they held the baby?  

I was thinking back and I remember not even thinking about being in the birthing room with my sister and she and I are pretty close. 

When my brother's wife gave birth it was just her and him.  Her mother is a nurse and would have been an amazing person to have but she wasn't put out by it at all.

Meh, different strokes I guess

Sister Shockermolar and Mr Shockermolar were with me but I kicked my mom out the first time and told her flat out not to come the 2nd. Sister S is kinda no nonsense with medical stuff and I needed that. My mom was weepy and annoying.   The Mr I can't actually remember WHAT he brought to the table during labor but he didn't piss me off so there's that.

[RealReality]

3 minutes ago, shockermolar said:

Sister Shockermolar and Mr Shockermolar were with me but I kicked my mom out the first time and told her flat out not to come the 2nd. Sister S is kinda no nonsense with medical stuff and I needed that. My mom was weepy and annoying.   The Mr I can't actually remember WHAT he brought to the table during labor but he didn't piss me off so there's that.

LOL, my mom was with my sister for her first child and my mom was being  hysterical and dramatic.  Constant demands of the nursing staff to get a doctor, stat!!  My sister found a way for her not to be there the second time. 

[Bryce Lynch]

13 hours ago, RealReality said:

A victim?  I don't even know if I'd call a domestic spouse who got cheated on a victim.  Ashley had every indication and red flag in the world that jay was not a faithful guy, so I wouldn't consider her a "victim" under the circumstances.  It sucks I guess, but victim?  No, not IMO and it's not even close.  She is nowhere in the victim ballpark or even the victim stadium parking lot.

The imbalance of power doesn't change because one party is pulling a scam.  It does not functionally change the fact that one party has all the power and one party does not.

LOL, I wouldn't take Ashley's word on anything and if she told me the sky was blue I'd be sure to check.  She has no problem doing anything to justify her behavior ane take revenge.  And given all the factors it make no sense that jay lied to her about his age.  Now that she is getting shit for dating a barely legal teen she is backtracking.

But again, none if this changes the fact that there is a vast balance of power in Ashley's favor, which she has used to her advantage in a variety of ways.

Trashley was easily victimized because she was extremely foolish.  But, many fraud victims are foolish.  Fools make the best marks for con artists.

Jay willingly placed himself into whatever "power imbalance" he was in to try to pull off his scam.  Of course it matters when one party is pulling a scam.

If tried to scam you out of your life savings, but you discovered it and were able to stop me because you had more power would that be a bad thing?

Also, Jay has a big power advantage over Trashley in that she is a lovesick emotional cripple who he can easily deceive and manipulate.

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Trashley was easily victimized because she was extremely foolish.  But, many fraud victims are foolish.  Fools make the best marks for con artists.

Jay willingly placed himself into whatever "power imbalance" he was in to try to pull off his scam.  Of course it matters when one party is pulling a scam.

If tried to scam you out of your life savings, but you discovered it and were able to stop me because you had more power would that be a bad thing?

Also, Jay has a big power advantage over Trashley in that she is a lovesick emotional cripple who he can easily deceive and manipulate.

Being so desperate and poor that you have to place yourself in such a vast power imbalance doesn't change the fact that it's a power imbalance.

One that Ashley has taken advantage of at every turn.  There is a reason she chose a 17 year old with no money, no advanced education, likely no basic education from an impoverished country who is poor and has no job skills.

She knew what she was doing and happily set up a power imbalance. 

I find Ashley unattractive and basic as hell.  But for her little corner of the world I'm sure she is considered attractive.  She easily could have found some basic ass dude in PA to date her around her age.  She could have found a man domestically.  She could have found an attractive man her own age who had a job and an education/trade and money to his name.  Of any race.  But she didn't want someone who had their own money, job, education and residency because then she would have nothing solid to hold over them.

Ashley is no victim.  But I guess that's a matter of opinion and semantics I suppose because I don't see people who get cheated on as victims.  I reserve that word for people in far more serious situations.

Not a 32 year old who bought and paid for a 20 year old stud knowing he wasn't faithful and then wants to play the victim when he did exactly what history told her he was going to do.  Nah, that's not a victim to me, no more than Dani was a victim or Nicole is a victim.

There is no power imbalance in Jay's favor.  He has no power and she knows it and thrives off it.  He cannot place her in a situation to be homeless, broke and immobile in what appears to be freezing weather.

The power to "hurt her feelings" does not a power imbalance make. 

Edited July 9, 2019 by RealReality

[Bryce Lynch]

18 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Being so desperate and poor that you have to place yourself in such a vast power imbalance doesn't change the fact that it's a power imbalance.

Ashley is no victim.  But I guess that's a matter of opinion and semantics I suppose because I don't see people who get cheated on as victims.  I reserve that word for far more serious situations.  Not someone who bought and paid for a 20 year old stud knowing he wasn't faithful and then wants to play the victim when he did exactly what history told her he was going to do.

There is no power imbalance in Jay's favor.  He has no power and she knows it and thrives off it.  He cannot place her in a situation to be homeless, broke and immobile.  

The power to "hurt her feelings" does not a power imbalance make.

Jay had the power to trick her into thinking he would be a "husband" to her, so she would marry him and apply for a visa for him.   He also had the power to get her to forgive his earlier infidelity.   Now, I realize that this power, much like Jedi mind tricks, only works on the weak minded.  But Trashley is certainly quite weak minded and thus Jay has been able to exercise this power over her.

Trashley and the entire USA are victims of Jay's immigration fraud.  He had no intention in being part of a legitimate marriage to an American, which is the  key condition under which the 90 day visas and green cards are issued.  

On the other hand, Ashley has the law on her side, since he was not required to file for his adjustment of status, and apparently during a spasm of lucidity, decided not to do so right away.  

I am not saying Jay has all the power.  I am saying the each had different types of power, and Ashley is apparently going to justly prevail and have his scamming butt deported.   

I have a very, low opinion of Trashley, but that does not make Jay any less of a lying, cheating green cards scammer than he obviously is.    There doesn't have to be a good guy.  

[Persnickety1]

22 hours ago, magemaud said:

I've always thought it was against the law to show people on TV drinking real alcohol and they usually use iced tea to represent brownish liquors. 

Maybe reality TV is different because if this were the case, the Real Housewives franchises would have never gotten off the ground.  That's the primary form of entertainment on those shows.

Maybe the rules are different for a network show, where scenes have to be shot repeatedly and the actor would be inebriated by the time there was a successful take?  

[Persnickety1]

17 hours ago, bravofan27 said:

Confession: I groomed my husband and he's older than me. I had to. He was a total idiot when I met him. I'm actually still grooming him, 10 years later.

I can't help but like Andrei. I like Libby's father a lot as well. I like Libby. Her sister's seem like shit stirrers and greedy for camera time. I don't doubt they love Libby, but they are DEFINITELY eating up the camera time and going for the Grammy. Libby's dad seems genuine, but he's kind of a jerk to Andrei. Men don't really like other men encroaching on their territory.

I don't like him.  I know his "helpful" type all to well.  

I remember when he bluntly informed Andrei (out of Libby's presence) that he would take no part in helping pay for their wedding.  I was like, "Dude, you are the fucking father of the bride, it's pretty traditional that your snarky old ass DOES pay for your daughter's wedding."  It sounded exactly like something Father Persnickety would do.  They think their financial status entitles them to control.   

I think he's a lot like Father Persnickety in other ways, too.  Nothing is free, and when those sorts "help" you out, they're keeping a mental checklist and holding a huge emotional anvil over your held for that "help."

"Glad I'm finally getting to see the house I helped pay for."  GTFO, Daddy Warbucks.  Throwing into someone's face digs about financially helping that person (especially your daughter who just had your granchild) is not a good look.  

I wish Andrei would get off of his ass and prove Father Libby wrong, because I understand Andrei's position and agree with him, but he needs to be able to nut up and prove Father Libby and Sisters Libby were wrong and that they really don't need their help.  

Get off of that couch, Andrei!!!

ETA:  I groomed my 15-years-younger husband, too...but he was a grown assed 30-year-old man and not a 17-year-old vacation fling.  That's the skeeve factor for me with Ashley.  No matter how sexually experienced he was, he was a teenager.  I think they both kind of got what they deserved.  I'm just sorry her kids apparently had to go along for the ride.  

Edited July 9, 2019 by Persnickety1

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Jay had the power to trick her into thinking he would be a "husband" to her, so she would marry him and apply for a visa for him.   He also had the power to get her to forgive his earlier infidelity.   Now, I realize that this power, much like Jedi mind tricks, only works on the weak minded.  But Trashley is certainly quite weak minded and thus Jay has been able to exercise this power over her.

Trashley and the entire USA are victims of Jay's immigration fraud.  He had no intention in being part of a legitimate marriage to an American, which is the  key condition under which the 90 day visas and green cards are issued.  

On the other hand, Ashley has the law on her side, since he was not required to file for his adjustment of status, and apparently during a spasm of lucidity, decided not to do so right away.  

I am not saying Jay has all the power.  I am saying the each had different types of power, and Ashley is apparently going to justly prevail and have his scamming butt deported.   

I have a very, low opinion of Trashley, but that does not make Jay any less of a lying, cheating green cards scammer than he obviously is.    There doesn't have to be a good guy.  

Trying to equivocate jay and Ashley's "power" to try to make this less a power imbalance requires a level of mental gymnastics that doesn't square with me 

Her stupidity and unwillingness to ignore history doesn't make her a victim or change the dynamics of the vast power imalance in Ashley's favor.  

Dani is far less intelligent than Ashley, and the fact that mo had the power to hurt her feelings, convince her he was going to be a good husband and get her to forgive him didn't change the power imbalance in danis favor. 

Ashley has the money, jay cannot legally work, Ashley had the roof over their head, ashley has the power to withhold the opportunity at a better life and the chance to escape poverty.  She has the power of age and position.  THAT is a power imbalance.

Not "you have the power to hurt my feelings by doing exactly what my friend said you were doing and what I admitted you were doing"

the fact that Ashley thought she could control Jay's behavior by rights of the vast imbalance of power makes them unequal.  

There wasn't a "spasm of lucidity" there was very clearly Ashley desperately holding onto her power by refusing to send in the paperwork. 

She knew that if jay could work, he could make real money, real money means economic power.  She had no intention of letting jay have any economic freedom. Yeah, he would work under the table for scraps, but she wanted financial control and power in the relationship.

and just lol @ "legitimate marriage". Do we question the "legitimacy" of domestic marriages when one partner is a serial cheater?  No, we do not.  So a "legitimate marriage" isn't or shouldn't be based solely on fidelity.  There are plenty if marriages in the US where one partner cheats or cheats all the time.  There are very public marriages with this dynamic and we don't say they are illegitimate.

no one is saying jay is a prince.  He isn't.  That doesn't change the nature of the vast power imbalance that Ashley exploits.

Edited July 9, 2019 by RealReality

[Toaster Strudel]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

She knew what she was doing and happily set up a power imbalance.  

Jay has stupefying, crushing, heavy sack power that he used to paralyze and exert control over Trahsley. Look at how much she gave away for that D that he promised to give her several times a day.

[Bryce Lynch]

10 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Trying to equivocate jay and Ashley's "power" to try to make this less a power imbalance requires a level of mental gymnastics that doesn't square with me 

Her stupidity and unwillingness to ignore history doesn't make her a victim or change the dynamics of the vast power imalance in Ashley's favor.  

Dani is far less intelligent than Ashley, and the fact that mo had the power to hurt her feelings, convince her he was going to be a good husband and get her to forgive him didn't change the power imbalance in danis favor. 

Ashley has the money, jay cannot legally work, Ashley had the roof over their head, ashley has the power to withhold the opportunity at a better life and the chance to escape poverty.  She has the power of age and position.  THAT is a power imbalance.

Not "you have the power to hurt my feelings by doing exactly what my friend said you were doing and what I admitted you were doing"

the fact that Ashley thought she could control Jay's behavior by rights of the vast imbalance of power makes them unequal.  

There wasn't a "spasm of lucidity" there was very clearly Ashley desperately holding onto her power by refusing to send in the paperwork. 

She knew that if jay could work, he could make real money, real money means economic power.  She had no intention of letting jay have any economic freedom. Yeah, he would work under the table for scraps, but she wanted financial control and power in the relationship.

and just lol @ "legitimate marriage". Do we question the "legitimacy" of domestic marriages when one partner is a serial cheater?  No, we do not.  So a "legitimate marriage" isn't or shouldn't be based solely on fidelity.  There are plenty if marriages in the US where one partner cheats or cheats all the time.  There are very public marriages with this dynamic and we don't say they are illegitimate.

no one is saying jay is a prince.  He isn't.  That doesn't change the nature of the vast power imbalance that Ashley exploits.

Trying to compare an obvious green card scam marriage to a typical marriage is absurd.  Even where there is serial cheating, in most cases, neither party entered into the marriage for the purposes of committing fraud against the United States Government.   

Also, it would be quite common for the victim of the serial cheating to seek a divorce, and to use whatever power she/he has to get the best possible outcome for herself/himself.

Again, we have no idea how Trashley would have treated Jay if he had been a decent, faithful husband, as he was on Tinder trying to cheat on her 3 days into their marriage. 

Not filing the adjustment of status paperwork, which would bring a 10 year financial commitment, at that point, was a rational decision that any reasonable person would make at that point.  Why would anyone willingly bind themselves to such a commitment, in the face of the strong evidence that the other person didn't give a damn about them and was running a scam?

I really don't get your line of thinking.  Do you think that Trashley is somehow obligated to assist Jay in his immigration scam, because she foolishly married him, even after the scam became obvious to her?

If she promised to send some Nigerian email scammer her bank account information, but then realized it was a scam, would she be "wrong" to renege on that promise?  Or if she promised to make an investment and then found out it was a Ponzi scheme, before she wrote the check, would she be legally or morally obligated to go through with it?

[Lemur]

19 hours ago, MajorNelson said:

Did you mean some other state, above? 

Edit, Nevermind - I was imagining people from NY, NJ somehow heading to PA for a quickie divorce.

Old post: Or that it's harder in PA now?  But that doesn't make much sense since Ashley is making it seem easy.

All divorces in PA had to be adjudicated until (I wanna say) the early 90's; it was at least a two year process and a real pain in the ass. NY and NY had No-Fault before them, so it was the other way around.  People moved to NJ, established residency and could filed 18 months later, thus cutting 6 months off the process.  PA is much, much easier now especially if there are no marital assets.  

[Neurochick]

Once again Bondy has everybody's number.

There are spoilers for Ashley and Jay in this review, so watch at your own risk.

[MajorNelson]

16 hours ago, 100Proof said:

Tell you what though, Coltee's demeanor really came out in this part 2 episode.

The guy's personality been absolutely deadpan dry milquetoast the whole season but then he reaches for a bottle and psycho personality starts coming out

I think that may be!  We shall have to wait and see.

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Trying to compare an obvious green card scam marriage to a typical marriage is absurd.  Even where there is serial cheating, in most cases, neither party entered into the marriage for the purposes of committing fraud against the United States Government.   

Also, it would be quite common for the victim of the serial cheating to seek a divorce, and to use whatever power she/he has to get the best possible outcome for herself/himself.

Again, we have no idea how Trashley would have treated Jay if he had been a decent, faithful husband, as he was on Tinder trying to cheat on her 3 days into their marriage. 

Not filing the adjustment of status paperwork, which would bring a 10 year financial commitment, at that point, was a rational decision that any reasonable person would make at that point.  Why would anyone willingly bind themselves to such a commitment, in the face of the strong evidence that the other person didn't give a damn about them and was running a scam?

I really don't get your line of thinking.  Do you think that Trashley is somehow obligated to assist Jay in his immigration scam, because she foolishly married him, even after the scam became obvious to her?

If she promised to send some Nigerian email scammer her bank account information, but then realized it was a scam, would she be "wrong" to renege on that promise?  Or if she promised to make an investment and then found out it was a Ponzi scheme, before she wrote the check, would she be legally or morally obligated to go through with it?

What is a typical marriage, because in my book many marriages don't fit a mold and we do not judge them illegitimate.  So trying to say a marriage has to be "typical" to be legitimate doesn't make sense to me.

You can't know Jay's intent and the only one who has purported to know his intent is Ashley.  All we know is that jay is a serial cheater and that's it.

Ashley treated him like someone she could control.  That's it, she treated him like the child he was.  He couldn't have a job and was totally reliant on her for everything.  There was no other arrangement.  And there was never ever going to be another arrangement.

What you don't do, what is unforgivable to me is to use a power imbalance and the ignorance of another party to try to force them into a position of abdicating their rights.  

Given Jay's age, he may have thought that he could be faithful.  He is 20 and likely doesn't realize that his behavior may be pathological.  He has been sexually active since he was 8, he has never been faithful to Ashley and he had sex in a barber shop bathroom.  There is a chance that this behavior is not just "bad boy" behavior but is something deeper and more pathological.  At 20 he may not have realized that and may have thought he could be faithful.  The inability to be faithful for even a few months when there is so much on the line may speak to a deeper issue.  

The person who knew for sure that it was unlikely for jay to be faithful was Ashley.  And as a 32 year old woman who had been cheated on before SHE knew better.  I suppose she thought the power imbalance was stronger than his problems.   

[100Proof]

15 minutes ago, MajorNelson said:

I think that may be!  We shall have to wait and see.

Weird though. I've been known to drink pretty hard back in the day *cough* but chugging like he did I find impossible. It's pretty hard to take more than one swig without starting to dry heave. Gotta pause a minute or so between gulps, lol

Edited July 9, 2019 by 100Proof

[Neurochick]

17 minutes ago, RealReality said:

The person who knew for sure that it was unlikely for jay to be faithful was Ashley.  And as a 32 year old woman who had been cheated on before SHE knew better.  I suppose she thought the power imbalance was stronger than his problems.   

Ashley wanted a "fuck boy" who'd be faithful to her, which is stupid because fuck boys are rarely faithful.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

What is a typical marriage, because in my book many marriages don't fit a mold and we do not judge them illegitimate.  So trying to say a marriage has to be "typical" to be legitimate doesn't make sense to me.

You can't know Jay's intent and the only one who has purported to know his intent is Ashley.  All we know is that jay is a serial cheater and that's it.

Ashley treated him like someone she could control.  That's it, she treated him like the child he was.  He couldn't have a job and was totally reliant on her for everything.  There was no other arrangement.  And there was never ever going to be another arrangement.

What you don't do, what is unforgivable to me is to use a power imbalance and the ignorance of another party to try to force them into a position of abdicating their rights.  

Given Jay's age, he may have thought that he could be faithful.  He is 20 and likely doesn't realize that his behavior may be pathological.  He has been sexually active since he was 8, he has never been faithful to Ashley and he had sex in a barber shop bathroom.  There is a chance that this behavior is not just "bad boy" behavior but is something deeper and more pathological.  At 20 he may not have realized that and may have thought he could be faithful.  The inability to be faithful for even a few months when there is so much on the line may speak to a deeper issue.  

The person who knew for sure that it was unlikely for jay to be faithful was Ashley.  And as a 32 year old woman who had been cheated on before SHE knew better.  I suppose she thought the power imbalance was stronger than his problems.   

When it comes to marriages involving immigration and green cards, the presumption is pretty much that the marriage is a sham and the parties need to prove that it is not.

Also, Ashley didn't keep Jay locked up at home or anything.  He was "practicing" his tattooing and the barber shop, and almost certainly getting paid for it off the books.  

Jay never had any intention of being faithful, because he never had any intention of being married for any purpose other than getting a green card and maybe some money.  

I don't want to hear about anyone's "inability" to remain faithful.  We all have 100% free will over whether or not to stick our dicks into someone other than our wives.    

The fact that Ashely kept forgiving his cheating ass showed that he had an emotional "power imbalance" over her.  I honestly don't care.  Ashley allowed him to have that advantage by being an immature fool.

Ashley started using the power she had after he cheated on her multiple times and made it clear he was in the marriage only for the green card.  Good for her!  If a person has the power to get a lowlife, lying, green card scammer deported, they should do so, and sleep well at night, knowing they have done the right thing.   

Moral of the story, if you are going to pull a scam, you ought to take into account what power the person you are scamming might have to thwart it and or punish you.

In the end, if he is deported, he will not have lost anything, but be back where he started.  America's gain and Jamaica's loss.   I don't feel good about inflicting him on the people of Jamaica again.  But, he was born there, so he is their problem, not ours.  Trashley is our cross to bear.   

And for the record, I don't think Jay should sign anything without consulting a lawyer first.  He would be a fool to do so.  But, I don't blame Trashley for asking him to.   It is up to him to look out for his own interests.  She should be looking out for herself at this point.   

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Ashley wanted a "fuck boy" who'd be faithful to her, which is stupid because fuck boys are rarely faithful.

Oh, she was absolutely an idiot for thinking he would be faithful or would stay with her any longer than it would take to get a green card.  But, idiots get scammed all the time, and the scammer can't use the defense that "The people  I scammed were idiots, so it wasn't wrong to scam them."   

Edited July 9, 2019 by Bryce Lynch

[Drogo]

Just now, Bryce Lynch said:

We all have 100% free will over whether or not to stick our dicks into someone other than our wives.    

There has to be a way to work this into the standard marriage vows.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, Drogo said:

There has to be a way to work this into the standard marriage vows.

LOL - I guess that is the "forsaking all others" part.  But, maybe that isn't clear and explicit enough, like my version is.   

[100Proof]

The running gag line with all these women I keep hearing is, "I've been hoping that 'insert name' will finally change, and now that 'such and such' has happened, I think he will." 

what, no facepalm emoji??

[100Proof]

double post. please delete

Edited July 10, 2019 by 100Proof

[Natalie68]

On 7/8/2019 at 1:54 PM, Mswldflwr said:

I had always thought it was against the law as well, but then there's The Bachelor/ette and Bachelor in Paradise as well.

I have watched soaps on and off my entire life and Eileen Davidson said something interesting re Y&R.  Back in the 80s when they had scenes with liquor it actually was real so by the time shooting ended people were pretty buzzed.  

I thank all of you for the recaps.  I found myself ff all the scenes because I really dislike all these people so I quit watching but for some strange reason I want updates.  

[iwasish]

15 hours ago, shockermolar said:

Sister Shockermolar and Mr Shockermolar were with me but I kicked my mom out the first time and told her flat out not to come the 2nd. Sister S is kinda no nonsense with medical stuff and I needed that. My mom was weepy and annoying.   The Mr I can't actually remember WHAT he brought to the table during labor but he didn't piss me off so there's that.

The Mr clearly understood his role. “Do not piss off” 

Other rules “No speaking unless spoken to”  “No making horrified faces and exclaiming OMG!” 

Miranda in SATC had Carrie in with her and baby daddy Steve, it was Carrie’s job to keep Steve from crying. 

[Neurochick]

I have zero sympathy for Ashley.  Jay was a scammer, and it's not right to scam someone.  

I feel sorry for Ashley's minor children.  People with minor children shouldn't spend lots of money of fuck boys.  But...

Spoiler

Listening to Bondy's review, if what Jay's sister said is true about Ashley, maybe that's how she's able to afford many of the things she has.  What is her job anyway?

[Spike]

22 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I have zero sympathy for Ashley.  Jay was a scammer, and it's not right to scam someone.  

I feel sorry for Ashley's minor children.  People with minor children shouldn't spend lots of money of fuck boys.  But...

  Hide contents

Listening to Bondy's review, if what Jay's sister said is true about Ashley, maybe that's how she's able to afford many of the things she has.  What is her job anyway?

On a recent episode she said she works in a dental office.  Not sure If that’s in addition to or in lieu of the bartending shown in the past.

[MrHufflepuff]

On 7/8/2019 at 2:06 PM, Spike said:

Apparently believe it or not Debbie was quite attractive when younger.  Maybe Coltie still sees her that way.

I'M DONE!

[Doucette]

I feel badly for Colt and Debbie - it is Larissa who has been inconsiderate and temperamental all along. Also I do not respect her for leaving behind her two young children in Brazil to marry an American man. The second person I have the most trouble with is Paola. I can not bear to watch her vanity (as on the reunion show where you could see she thought she was the best-looking woman there) - in this episode, she actually has a whole collage of her own bikini shots on her fridge. Very vain and superficial individual.  It is also very selfish of her to not consider moving to Ohio and to not want Russ' mother to hold the baby. By refusing to move, she is depriving her child of extended family. She moved away from her own family so there is really only her and Russ to be a family to the baby as he grows up in Miami. Children need extended family especially grandparents. Pao should try to understand that Russ' family is simply more conservative than she is and remember that modesty is a virtue.

[RealReality]

6 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

When it comes to marriages involving immigration and green cards, the presumption is pretty much that the marriage is a sham and the parties need to prove that it is not.

Also, Ashley didn't keep Jay locked up at home or anything.  He was "practicing" his tattooing and the barber shop, and almost certainly getting paid for it off the books.  

Jay never had any intention of being faithful, because he never had any intention of being married for any purpose other than getting a green card and maybe some money.  

I don't want to hear about anyone's "inability" to remain faithful.  We all have 100% free will over whether or not to stick our dicks into someone other than our wives.    

The fact that Ashely kept forgiving his cheating ass showed that he had an emotional "power imbalance" over her.  I honestly don't care.  Ashley allowed him to have that advantage by being an immature fool.

Ashley started using the power she had after he cheated on her multiple times and made it clear he was in the marriage only for the green card.  Good for her!  If a person has the power to get a lowlife, lying, green card scammer deported, they should do so, and sleep well at night, knowing they have done the right thing.   

Moral of the story, if you are going to pull a scam, you ought to take into account what power the person you are scamming might have to thwart it and or punish you.

In the end, if he is deported, he will not have lost anything, but be back where he started.  America's gain and Jamaica's loss.   I don't feel good about inflicting him on the people of Jamaica again.  But, he was born there, so he is their problem, not ours.  Trashley is our cross to bear.   

And for the record, I don't think Jay should sign anything without consulting a lawyer first.  He would be a fool to do so.  But, I don't blame Trashley for asking him to.   It is up to him to look out for his own interests.  She should be looking out for herself at this point.   

Oh, she was absolutely an idiot for thinking he would be faithful or would stay with her any longer than it would take to get a green card.  But, idiots get scammed all the time, and the scammer can't use the defense that "The people  I scammed were idiots, so it wasn't wrong to scam them."   

You may not want to hear it, but it doesn't change the fact that some people have a pathology in this area.  Because it's foreign to you doesn't mean it's not a thing.  And it often happens to people who are sexualized earlier.

And your presumptions about a marriage between a domestic spouse and a foreign one are not per se facts.  Nor have I ever seen any guidance from anyone in immigration that establishes any such thing.  But by all means if you have some objective evidence please share.  But if you don't and that's fine, that is your opinion.  Which is cool because we all share out opinions, but in most cases it's easy to tell that it's not a fact.

There is no prima facie case for jay having some amazing power over ashley because she made a decision of her own accord. 

And I think Ashley made that decision because again, she could exert control.  She could string jay along, continue to say that she just needed him to prove to her for a month a year another ten years that he was behaving before she would send in the paperwork.  Which she would never send in. 

She would always Lucy the football and jay would have always had to clear one more hurdle, just one more hurdle before she'd send in the paperwork.  Im not sure how Ashley found out about tinder, but it wouldn't surprise me if she had been poking around his phone looking for some reason not to send in that paperwork.  

On no, to me, there is never never anything good about trying to keep someone from exercising their rights.  I will never be okay or think it's okay for someone to pick on someone who is powerless and poor because they can or because thar person did something wrong.  That will never be okay with me.  I guess different strokes so this may be okay for some, but I can't envision a situation where I'd be okay with that.

I mean, whats next?  Jay had the power to drink orange juice straight from the container which upset Ashley and so she had the right to act however she'd like?  Hurt feelings should not be the basis for exploitation of someone's poverty and ignorance.  You cannot or should not be able to take away basic rights or exercise a vast power imbalance to force someone to sign a document they don't understand and one that implicates their legal rights.  While people may differ, I wouldnt be okay with that at all.  

You don't get to exploit a power imbalance because someone hurt your feelings.  You don't get to call the cops and demand immediate deportation because someone hurt your feelings .

Edited July 10, 2019 by RealReality

[RealReality]

5 hours ago, 100Proof said:

The running gag line with all these women I keep hearing is, "I've been hoping that 'insert name' will finally change, and now that 'such and such' has happened, I think he will." 

what, no facepalm emoji??

On a near daily basis I bemoan the absence of eyeroll emoji and eyeballs emoji from our messaging system.  

I feel your pain.

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

I have watched soaps on and off my entire life and Eileen Davidson said something interesting re Y&R.  Back in the 80s when they had scenes with liquor it actually was real so by the time shooting ended people were pretty buzzed.  

I thank all of you for the recaps.  I found myself ff all the scenes because I really dislike all these people so I quit watching but for some strange reason I want updates.  

Don't find this odd at all.  I have no plans to watch the family Chantal but I'm totally going to follow the snark of other posters! 

[configdotsys]

10 hours ago, RealReality said:

Her stupidity and unwillingness to ignore history doesn't make her a victim or change the dynamics of the vast power imalance in Ashley's favor.  

I agree totally that there is a power imbalance here. What I have a hard time with is that Ashley knew that from jump street and took advantage of that. I think she fell for a fuckboy (thanks @Neurochick) and was blinded by lust that he'd stay faithful to her. She was an ass for doing that. A pure fool. An imbecile to the nth degree.

I do think that she realized later that she had the power once she found out about his extracurriculars. She had a right to be angry that he cheated. Should she have realized earlier that he was not going to be faithful? I think so. But she even told her friend that if he had cheated on her, she didn't care. She was entranced by the D three times a day and floating on that. And because of that, now:

44 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Ashley wants Jay to go to JAIL because he CHEATED.  I mean being cheated on sucks; however I don't think anybody should go to jail just because you got your feelings hurt. 

This reminds me of many cases on Judge Judy in which a wounded partner uses the court system in the wrong way to achieve an end that they want. It's disgusting. 

Ashley realized when Jay cheated that she could exert control over his status here and it was at that time that her power trip started. While I may have had a little sympathy for her just because it sucks to be cheated on, she lost all of it when she decided to treat him like a fly and pull the wings off a little piece at a time and revel in it. 

[Spike]

Ashley was complaining at one point that she couldn’t keep up with his sex drive.  Maybe they should have an open marriage and then she could still get her vacation dick but he would have an outlet for when she doesn’t want it.  But monogamy is probably a huge part of her fairytale princess fantasy, so there’s that wrench.

[Baltimore Betty]

Pao tells us that her mother does not speak English but when Russ and Pao was talking about his mother coming to visit and how Pao does not want her to hold the baby, etc...suddenly Mother Pao says how awkward she feels when they fight.  She stood there the whole time, she could have left the room at any time but she stayed and then commented on what they were fighting about...but she does not speak English, really? 

Russ could pull the same thing and throw a stupid hissy fit about how he does not want Mother Pao to hold the baby.  Pao is acting like Russ is not a part of making the baby, I wish he would grow a pair.

Also, I hope Libby does not too comfortable laying around in bed healing and taking care of the baby, Andreeeiii I am sure will have something to say about her not working and making the money because even having a baby does not seem to be the motivator for him to get a job and support the family. I can just hear him now,"Libby, you had that baby yesterday don't you think it's time to get back to work? Money does not grow on trees, you know!"

[Bryce Lynch]

9 hours ago, RealReality said:

You may not want to hear it, but it doesn't change the fact that some people have a pathology in this area.  Because it's foreign to you doesn't mean it's not a thing.  And it often happens to people who are sexualized earlier.

And your presumptions about a marriage between a domestic spouse and a foreign one are not per se facts.  Nor have I ever seen any guidance from anyone in immigration that establishes any such thing.  But by all means if you have some objective evidence please share.  But if you don't and that's fine, that is your opinion.  Which is cool because we all share out opinions, but in most cases it's easy to tell that it's not a fact.

There is no prima facie case for jay having some amazing power over ashley because she made a decision of her own accord. 

And I think Ashley made that decision because again, she could exert control.  She could string jay along, continue to say that she just needed him to prove to her for a month a year another ten years that he was behaving before she would send in the paperwork.  Which she would never send in. 

She would always Lucy the football and jay would have always had to clear one more hurdle, just one more hurdle before she'd send in the paperwork.  Im not sure how Ashley found out about tinder, but it wouldn't surprise me if she had been poking around his phone looking for some reason not to send in that paperwork.  

On no, to me, there is never never anything good about trying to keep someone from exercising their rights.  I will never be okay or think it's okay for someone to pick on someone who is powerless and poor because they can or because thar person did something wrong.  That will never be okay with me.  I guess different strokes so this may be okay for some, but I can't envision a situation where I'd be okay with that.

I mean, whats next?  Jay had the power to drink orange juice straight from the container which upset Ashley and so she had the right to act however she'd like?  Hurt feelings should not be the basis for exploitation of someone's poverty and ignorance.  You cannot or should not be able to take away basic rights or exercise a vast power imbalance to force someone to sign a document they don't understand and one that implicates their legal rights.  While people may differ, I wouldnt be okay with that at all.  

You don't get to exploit a power imbalance because someone hurt your feelings.  You don't get to call the cops and demand immediate deportation because someone hurt your feelings .

There is no "pathology' that forces men to put their dicks into women other than their wives.  As human beings, we are responsible to control our own behavior.

CONroy cheats because he likes cheating and because he never viewed Trashley as a wife, only a sucker to use to scam a green card.

When you have a power imbalance against a person who is trying to do you harm, of course you exploit it.  

If I break the law trying to scam you and you have proof of this that you can leverage to get your money back and/or bring me to justice, of course your are going to use that power imbalance" to protect your interests.   You would be crazy not to do so.

I just can't wrap my head around how anyone could think it is wrong to use all legal means at your disposal to combat a scam artist who has targeted you.

[Hannah94]

25 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Pao tells us that her mother does not speak English but when Russ and Pao was talking about his mother coming to visit and how Pao does not want her to hold the baby, etc...suddenly Mother Pao says how awkward she feels when they fight.  She stood there the whole time, she could have left the room at any time but she stayed and then commented on what they were fighting about...but she does not speak English, really? 

I wasn't the only one that noticed that! TLC up to their ol trickery. I also found it odd that Pao speaks decent English but how did she learn it in Colombia and her mom didn't? I guess it's possible, but it just seems that if Peo had that much exposure to it, her whole family would have as well.

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, Spike said:

Ashley was complaining at one point that she couldn’t keep up with his sex drive.  Maybe they should have an open marriage and then she could still get her vacation dick but he would have an outlet for when she doesn’t want it.  But monogamy is probably a huge part of her fairytale princess fantasy, so there’s that wrench.

Monogamy is the expectation of any real marriage and part of standard wedding vows.  

Trashley was foolish to think CONroy had any interest in a real marriage with her.  But, once they took their vows, she had a legal and moral right to expect monogamy.  

She seems to have finally woken up and understands CONroy's true intentions and is divorcing him, and avoiding the massive financial obligation she would have to him if she filed for him to get permanent residence. 

It is pathetic that it took her so long to understand the obvious, but it is a step in the right direction.

[Kid]

9 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I just can't wrap my head around how anyone could think it is wrong to use all legal means at your disposal to combat a scam artist who has targeted you.

Because he is perceived as a victim. Therefore, anything he does is acceptable because of his background. Marrying her was an opportunity for him. It was an opportunity for him to better his life, to get an education, and make something of his life. He chose, instead, to do tattoos unlicensed and to fuck anything that moved.  Plenty of people were raised in ghettos, in poverty and abused their entire childhood. And they excelled in life because they worked and they studied and they followed the rules of acceptable behavior.

I have no sympathy for Ashley because she knew what she was getting  and he was entirely too young for her especially when all of this started. 

However, the rules of the game that he was playing has gotten him where he is today.  

Edited July 10, 2019 by Kid

[zenme]

I can understand Spanish, but my speaking it is very poor, just as my grandmother could understand English, but could not speak it. That’s how we communicated. I don’t find Pao’s mother’s situation any different. Also, maybe Pao took English in school. 

[Hannah94]

11 minutes ago, zenme said:

I can understand Spanish, but my speaking it is very poor, just as my grandmother could understand English, but could not speak it. That’s how we communicated. I don’t find Pao’s mother’s situation any different. Also, maybe Pao took English in school. 

Very true. It is possible that in Pao's generation, they taught it in school but in her mom's generation, maybe they didn't. I took Spanish for several years, high school and college, and while I am in no way fluent (I can ask where a shoe store or bathroom is, basically...sadly), I can write it/speak it better than understand it. I also use the phrase "como se dice" often, lol. People who speak fluent Spanish speak so friggin fast, I cannot separate the words. If I am reading it, it's better but it just seems so fast when talking, I get lost! 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Hannah94

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

There is no "pathology' that forces men to put their dicks into women other than their wives.  As human beings, we are responsible to control our own behavior.

CONroy cheats because he likes cheating and because he never viewed Trashley as a wife, only a sucker to use to scam a green card.

When you have a power imbalance against a person who is trying to do you harm, of course you exploit it.  

If I break the law trying to scam you and you have proof of this that you can leverage to get your money back and/or bring me to justice, of course your are going to use that power imbalance" to protect your interests.   You would be crazy not to do so.

I just can't wrap my head around how anyone could think it is wrong to use all legal means at your disposal to combat a scam artist who has targeted you.

A pathology doesn't force anyone to do anything, and I'm not sure that's what I said.  

Oh yeah, no I don't agree that it's right to exploit a power imbalance to try to strip someone of their rights because your feelings are hurt.  And I think that is a very very dangerous justification and the slipperiest of slopes. 

But if others think that it's fine to use a vast power imbalance to get someone to give up their legal rights because...hurt feelings.....well to each their own.  

Yeah, no, just because someone can legally use the vast power they wield over someone to make them homeless, hungry and penniless in order to get their way doesn't make that behavior acceptable to me.  

Even when they are hurt of feel slighted.   Even if someone is scamming you for a green card.  I don't agree that those conditions warrant browbeating someone with the spectre of homelessness, freezing on the streets, going hungry, and being penniless in a place you've taught that person is full of racists.  I don't believe it justifies calling the cops either.  Even though that was legal.

I don't believe that someone should  lose their basic legal right to understand what legal document they are signing and how it affects their legal rights because they did something wrong.  Or because another party had their feelings hurt, or feels like they were done wrong.   I think that reasoning is a scary slippery slope.  Even the shittiest of us deserve our basic rights. 

And assuming a green card scam seems like an assumption that may not true.  By your own account jay has absolute agency and does not have a pathology.  So he has no more of an urge to seek sex as a pacifier than any other man.  And he is also running a green card scam.  Were he running a scam that means he understands what it takes to be successful at running a scam and means that he would go out of his way to be, at the very least, discreet.  He had sex in a barber shop bathroom, which highly is indiscreet and downright disgusting even if all parties are single.  He got on a dating site....indiscreet.  

You can say "oh well jay is just stupid and therefore he was dumb in perpetuating his 'scam'"  but if he is savvy enough to make the right moves to scam someone he is smart enough to know to be discreet.  Especially if, as a green card scammer, he knew he got caught and was being closely monitored and expected to remain faithful.  At the very least, after that, even the most ridiculously stupid green card scammer would be discreet.  Not have barbershop bathroom sex with a room full of witnesses around.  

That doesn't make sense unless there are other issues at play.  Barbershop bathroom sex doesn't sound fun or titillating at any age or marital status.  It sounds desperate and pathetic and sad and unsanitary.  

He may have had every intention of trying to do the right thing and be faithful, he is a 20 year old. 

At 20, I was convinced that I could roller blade for the very first time down a hill next to a busy street in spite of my egregious lack of skill, grace and ability.  Im lucky I didn't die.  Which is to say that 20 year olds tend to think themselves capable of a lot of things that they may not be.

But you know who had the benefit of 12 extra years of experience and prior relationships that ended due to infidelity?  You know who was in a better position to know that the fact jay had never been faithful to her would mean he couldn't be?  32 year old Ashley.  

Edited July 10, 2019 by RealReality