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S10.E06: Penne Alla Andi


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(edited)

A little random but what was up with all those bright colors most of the guys were wearing at the start of the episode when they first got to Venice? Josh was wearing some fuchsia green shirt, Chris was in some fuchsia pink pants, someone else was wearing long pink pants, etc. Seriously I was almost distracted at beginning with all those bright colors glaring off the screen.

 

eta: With regards to Cody and Andi's date, I actually suspect that Andi was going to give Cody the rose, not because she saw any potential between them but because he was such a nice guy and then she would send him home the next week, right before hometowns. But then Cody started laying it on so thick during the dinner, going on about wanting to have her meet his mom, how much potential he sees between them, etc. and you visibly see her getting more and more uncomfortable and it's why she decided it'd be more cruel to continue to string him along. And I feel like she sort of alluded to that when she was telling him how it would not be fair to bring him to next week and wait before hometowns. I definitely think her plan was to get rid of him then, at the rose ceremony.

Edited by truthaboutluv
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(edited)

Just WHEN was Andi supposed to chat with the guys about their lie detector results?  When were they supposed to be able to explain their "lies" and give some context to her about their responses?  During all that free time they each had to spend with Andi every day?    Yes, she was quickly able to explain her 2 "lies" while they were standing there, but she got nothing about the guys, just suspician and mistrust because of those "results".  Oh, except for Chris revealing his secret-admirer thing.

 

Sure, something like that can start some important conversations.  But nobody really gets to HAVE those conversations, so WTF was the point besides stirring up drama?

 

Obviously I just answered my own question....*LOL*

Edited by leighdear
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I had a nightmare last night.  Remember when they walked into the Letters to Juliet place?  Andi opens her mouth as wide as it could possibly go in a look that tried to say "Wow, this may be the most incredible thing I have every seen!" and it really creeped me out.  That look was worse than her usual Grumpy Cat look, or her disapproving because you are not fawning all over me look and I hope it doesn't come back!

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I think Nick looks like Oz Perkins.  I thought the lie detector test was weird for a group date.  It wasn't a fun group thing to do.  Usually the guys are interacting with each other and Andi in some fun activity, but a lie detector test is just one person at a time with the others sitting around.  I was disappointed that Chris' big secret (as promoted in previews) is that he is the Secret Admirer.  Big deal.  I wonder what the guys do when they aren't on  a date.  Do they have to stay in their hotel rooms?  Can they walk around a little bit?

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Everything I've read about the behind-the-scenes of this show has indicated that the contestants have zero "free time."  They go and do whatever they're told, heavily monitored by production staff, and then are taken back to their hotel.  I don't think they get any chance to site-see or anything apart from where they go for the cameras.  But someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

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My understanding is that production takes the guys out sightseeing while Andi is on a one-on-one date. Leaving everyone cooped up in a hotel room all day in a foreign country they have never visited before would too cruel.

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We at least know that the guys got to go out to dinner in order for Andrew to have gotten that waitress's phone number. And every once in a while you suddenly see the guys all wearing matching scarves or t-shirts or hoodie sweatshirts or something that leads me to believe that they all went out shopping together, but that's pure speculation on my part.

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My understanding is that production takes the guys out sightseeing while Andi is on a one-on-one date. Leaving everyone cooped up in a hotel room all day in a foreign country they have never visited before would too cruel.

 

Yeah, I remember something similar on the Ukrainian Bachelor.  While Maks (yes, that Maks!) was out on his one-on-one dates, the rest of the women would be out sightseeing under supervision.  It was during those times that some of the bitchiest remarks about the women who were on the one-on-one dates would be uttered.

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There was also that reference of all the guys except one going to a church during.... Desiree's season, maybe? (All the seasons blur together into this MegaSeason of Horror at this point)  Which is another sign that the guys do get to do stuff that's just not shown.

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(edited)

Besides Andi's STOPPPPPPP, there is also a lot of "I mean." She does it whenever she feels there's something amazing or something planned to impress the guys. It's annoying. I don't remember a previous Bachelorette who has so many verbal tics.

I doubt any person Andi ends up with on this show is going to last long with her in the real world because she totally doesn't let her guard down and instead puts on a front. Eric was so right.

Edited by waving feather
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(edited)

Sharleen's recap of the latest episode.

 

http://www.alltheprettypandas.com/recaps/

 

Honestly, it's like she and I are sharing the same brain with what's happening on the show. I especially loved her summation of Josh and Andi's 1 on 1 time during the group date. Her opinion on that relationship was just spot on. It'll be very interesting to see if those two last if Andi picks him. And of course I was nodding along in her opinion about Nick. Of course admittedly she may be biased since she totally admits to her tiny crush on Nick but I still think she was right. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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Thanks for that link! I never would have thought Sharleen would write anything but safe, cautious thinly veiled versions of "I love this show!" I always liked her, but I didn't think she'd snark on Josh! or Andi!! Or the show itself!!! While defending Nick for his "crimes" of last week. (And she did get me re-thinking. Because unlike Andi I don't think its necessarily good to have everyone like you--and Sharleen makes a good point. He wasn't the life of the party but nothing really required a second in-depth conversation about it.

To my surprise, I'm enjoying her recap!

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I can't believe how much I enjoy Sharleen's recaps.  They're great!  She has a sense of humor and slightly snarky side that I never really got a sense of on the Bachelor.  I can't stop giggling about her reference to the "camel-colored camel toe."

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Regarding the right reasons, I think Des taught us in her rap with the guys what the Bachelorette is wishing for.

"I'm here for love

Not here for the drama

If you mess with me

You're going home to your momma

I need a real man

I'm done with you playas

Mister Right stand up

Mister Wrong see you later"

And I'm sure Andi wants her guys to answer with the most beautiful words in the Bachelor universe:

"Right reasons, right reasons

Here pretty girl for all the right reasons

Right reasons, right reasons

Here pretty girl for all the whole season"

I didn't include the lines about promoting a single or being a single dad. I wanted to focus on the lurve, everlasting & eternal, twu wove.

Add me to the list who was completely offended by the question about sleeping with more than 20 women. I was more grossed out by that question than the hand washing one. It was a stupid premise to begin with & their choice of questions didn't add anything good. My list of questions would've included:

1) Do you prefer the travel & the bromance to Andi?

2) Is your secret desire to be the Bachelor & not end up with Andi?

3) Does the smell of roses make you nauseous?

I have never specifically noticed Cody's eyes before. Now I wish I'd paid more attention.

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(edited)

To be honest, I know that not washing your hands seems kind of gross at first, but if you think about it, it’s not technically that bad.

 

Your hands are supposedly the dirtiest, nastiest, germiest parts of your body because of all the things you do with them throughout the day, so I don’t know if touching yourself will really make things worse. It’s just another part of your body, like any other part. Right? It might be the cleanest thing someone touches all day. And if the dude knows that hey, it’s clean down there (or at least, pretty clean), what’s the harm, really?

 

 
Unless you pee on your hands, then you should wash. But do men usually pee on their hands when they go? I would hope not.

 

Of course I would prefer that men wash, actually that everyone everywhere washes.

 

And while I REALLY wouldn’t want someone else’s pee on me--in fact I do try to avoid that-- hey, at least it’s not unhealthy, and it may possibly even be beneficial. Maybe it can cure me of some diseases I didn’t even know I had, all unbeknownst to me.

Edited by PoorerThanDead
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(edited)

Regarding the right reasons, I think Des taught us in her rap with the guys what the Bachelorette is wishing for.

"I'm here for love

Not here for the drama

If you mess with me

You're going home to your momma

I need a real man

I'm done with you playas

Mister Right stand up

Mister Wrong see you later"

Lol! Ramble, you get all the roses for remembering the words to "The Right Reasons Rap"! Meanwhile, I only remember the words to Wrong Reasons Wes's "Love Don't Come Easy."

Well, there you go. That's the definitive answer on Right Reasons! It's The Bachelorette's official decree. I would love to see Andi in lawyer mode: According to The Right Reasons Rap verse 1, on the basis of being here for love, not here for the drama, you are in direct violation of line 3, messing with me, and thusly are sentenced to being sent home to your momma. (Bangs gavel)

Edited to add: Now Legaleagle is going to point out how none of that is legalese. And I do understand that the judge does the sentencing, not the lawyer. I'm feeling like Josh on the group date: pre-emptively feeling judged with no basis for it.

Edited by JenE4
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Thanks for that link! I never would have thought Sharleen would write anything but safe, cautious thinly veiled versions of "I love this show!" I always liked her, but I didn't think she'd snark on Josh! or Andi!! Or the show itself!!!

 

I also love Sharleen's recaps. I think she feels pretty free to snark on the show because she's not really using it to further her career. Pretty sure she's a one-and-done with this franchise. I do wonder if these recaps will have any bearing on her friendship with Andi, though. You should be able to be open with your friends, but a couple of her comments were a bit, "yikes!" FWIW I agree with Sharleen on just about everything.

 

Your hands are supposedly the dirtiest, nastiest, germiest parts of your body because of all the things you do with them throughout the day, so I don’t know if touching yourself will really make things worse. It’s just another part of your body, like any other part. Right?

 

Off topic, but washing your hands is super important. It's one of the main ways to prevent the spread of communicable diseases.

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This was a pretty boring episode. I like everyone left except for Nick, who I absolutely cannot stand. He reminds me of every pretentious whiny hipster in Brooklyn who smirks and manipulates women because he thinks he is so "different" and unlike regular men. He might be a nice guy, but he's not coming off well here at all. Marcus is still sweet and cute, but way too intense. He doesn't seem to ever loosen up or have much fun, and he seems way too into Andi too quickly. 

 

As for Chris, I love him and hope he will be the next Bachelor, but I don't think Andi is his type at all. I could see him with a more down to earth outdoorsy girl like Desiree, but not Andi. She just seems a bit too high maintenance and confrontational for how laid back he is. Josh doesn't seem like the brightest bulb in the shed, but I do find him to be decent looking and I can understand his frustration with the lie detector. If you actually like someone, and he seems to genuinely like Andi, then that was not a date. It's probably frustrating when someone like Nick is on his second one-on-one and you're stuck answering stupid questions in a room with two strange men and not seeing the girl you're supposed to be getting to know. Cody was sweet, but I'm glad he left because he had no shot and it was getting painful to watch him in the friend zone. 

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I'm not really sure what makes Nick a hipster. I feel like sometimes that title gets thrown around at people to discredit them in some way and call them pretentious. Nick is software salesman - what's so hipster-ish about that? 

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If you actually like someone, and he seems to genuinely like Andi, then that was not a date. It's probably frustrating when someone like Nick is on his second one-on-one and you're stuck answering stupid questions in a room with two strange men and not seeing the girl you're supposed to be getting to know.

 

 

Yes, but Josh has just had a 1-on-1 with Andi in Marseilles, so it was almost as certain as death and taxes that he would be going on the group date in Venice. The group date turned out to be a live detector test, which I agree is not a proper date, but both the choice of date and who went on it were pretty much out of Andi's hands.

 

Nick is software salesman - what's so hipster-ish about that?

 

There are plenty of hipster-ish douche bags in software sales who have an over-inflated sense of their own uniqueness/quirkiness. I know at least five personally.

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There are plenty of hipster-ish douche bags in software sales who have an over-inflated sense of their own uniqueness/quirkiness. I know at least five personally.

Fair enough but I just feel like the title is incredibly over-used. Like at this point I'm not even really sure what a hipster is because it just seems to get thrown at any guy who doesn't fit the "jock" mold and maybe slightly awkward or nerdy. And it always seems to be attached to being pretentious.

Like honestly I think JJ and his made up career and "quirky" pants came across as far more of a wannabe hipster than Nick. I think Nick is kind of awkward and slightly dorky but I think his flaw is more dismissiveness of the other guys which increases the "smug" title. I like Nick but he definitely gives off an "I give zero crap about any of you" vibe in relation to the guys.

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Fair enough but I just feel like the title is incredibly over-used. Like at this point I'm not even really sure what a hipster is because it just seems to get thrown at any guy who doesn't fit the "jock" mold and maybe slightly awkward or nerdy. And it always seems to be attached to being pretentious.

 

Truth. I live in Oakland, CA, which is kind of known to be hipster central, and I think at this point I'm more annoyed with people calling out others as "hipsters" than I am with actual hipsters. It's one of those terms that's so overused that it's become almost meaningless. Nick may or may not be a "hipster," and may or may not be a douchebag. But for now I'm enjoying the fact that he stands out from the other meatheads.  

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(edited)

Just to clarify, I don't know Nick and don't know that he is a hipster. Just saying that he reminds me of many guys my roommate has dated here in BK and they all have that similar smirking smug attitude, or that "I give zero crap about any of you" attitude. Sometimes it can be cool and refreshing, if it's simply that they are confident being themselves. Often, it's obnoxious because they feel they are better than others and assume that any "jock" or "mainstream"  people are dumb/lame. From what I've seen on the show, Nick is walking on the line between the two. In the first episode he seemed kind of quirky and sweet, but now he's starting to seem obnoxious to me. And for what it's worth, I thought JJ was a wannabe hipster too. Chris and Marquel are (were) my favorites, they both seem sweet, smart and laid back. 

Edited by SallyAlbright
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My husband is a network engineer on Wall St., and he said--while watching the show a couple of weeks ago, unrelated to this conversation--that Nick is a typical pompous tech salesman. They all (most?) have this over-confidence when they walk in the door so you'll buy what they're selling. And Nick selling himself to Andi is working! While illustrating this point about Nick, Mr. JenE4 told me about a jerky, pompous sales guy he knows on LinkedIn, someone wrote in a review that he "has high self-esteem"--that's one way to put it!

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(edited)

But for now I'm enjoying the fact that he stands out from the other meatheads.

My thing with Nick is that yeah he is dismissive to the other guys but I can't blame him because so far, from what the editing is actually showing, they're the ones attacking him and not the other way around.

The Bachelor(ette) bubble always lends itself to a group think mentality where it's easy to zero in on one contestant and everyone rally around how awful they believe this contestant supposedly is. But often I hear more about how awful the contestant is than them being awful and that's exactly what's going on with Nick so far.

So yeah I can't blame Nick for being dismissive to people who are sitting around calling him manipulative, evil, asshole and every other horrible name in the book.

Edited by truthaboutluv
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I found some of the polygraph questions rather intrusive.  I think asking, “How many women have you slept with?” was really out of line.

Agree, but more importantly, which guy producers decide to throw under the bus.  If I recall correctly, they only aired ONE guy's response when we know they asked all the guys the same question.  

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(edited)

But asking guys how many women they slept with on tv where potentially their parents could see it, is just invasive.

True, but it's well-known that one of final dates is more or less "Sex: check yes or no."  It was a risqué question but not completely out-of-bounds.

 

It seems like in every season, both Bachelor and Bachelorette, the contestants who already have roses by the time of the cocktail party are "expected" to stand aside and allow those contestants without roses to get one-on-one time with the "star", presumably in order to plead their case....I never understood why that should be so.

 

I fully understand.  It's a Marquess of Queensbury thing--a gentleman's code.  You're safe for the week, so do the dignified thing and step aside.  Say a classroom full of kids is answering questions for extra credit.  One kid already has the points, but keeps raising his hand anyway.  It's a dick move, and/or a bitch move.  Take your pick.

Edited by Bugs Meany
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The classroom comparison leads me to something I have off and on wondered about. Is the Lead allowed to say no when a contestant asks to talk? I've not seen it happen. I haven't watched every season so I don't know. If so, then there is nothing wrong with Rose Holder asking for more time. Andi could just respectfully say she would like some time with the other guys much like the teacher could just not call on Extra Credit kid. If, however, Andi is contractually bound, and the guys know it, to accept any request for one on one then yes, it is a total dick move to force her to spend time with him instead of someone she might have questions about.

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(edited)

The classroom comparison leads me to something I have off and on wondered about. Is the Lead allowed to say no when a contestant asks to talk? I've not seen it happen. I haven't watched every season so I don't know. If so, then there is nothing wrong with Rose Holder asking for more time. Andi could just respectfully say she would like some time with the other guys much like the teacher could just not call on Extra Credit kid. If, however, Andi is contractually bound, and the guys know it, to accept any request for one on one then yes, it is a total dick move to force her to spend time with him instead of someone she might have questions about.

 

Thank you and I don't believe for one second that a lead can't say, "can you give me a moment to talk this person..." or something in that vein. It reminded me of Emily reading Ryan's 7-page letter while poor Tony stood awkwardly waiting to have alone time with her. Yes, Ryan was an obnoxious idiot that season but I always thought Emily was the wrong one for that because she could have told Ryan she'd read the letter later but instead she sat there, seeing another guy standing by waiting to speak to her, and read the whole thing. 

 

It's the same with Andi. Andi could have very easily, when Nick grabbed her, told him she'd go with him but give her a second to say hello to everyone else. But she didn't, instead she was too busy sucking face with him and getting all hot and bothered and going on about how much of a real man he is because "he wanted it so he took it."

 

Say a classroom full of kids is answering questions for extra credit.  One kid already has the points, but keeps raising his hand anyway.  It's a dick move, and/or a bitch move.  Take your pick.

 

 

Ymmv but I find the entire premise of this show too ridiculous to apply these types of rules to it. The whole thing is some weird, unnatural premise where the contestants are almost like lab rats being manipulated by the producers with the situations they're put in, the stuff that's told to them, their being entirely cut off from the real world, etc. I just refuse to judge a person's character based on something like this, especially when the process is heavily manipulated to push them into believing they're oh so madly in love with the lead. 

 

Oh and also maybe it's because I'm of the "I don't think everyone deserves a trophy for participation" variety, I wouldn't be bothered by the kid still raising their hands even if they already had the extra credit. Because again, as noted above with the lead, wouldn't the teacher have the ability to not call on this person since they already know they don't need the extra credit points? 

 

Also, speaking of how unnatural this premise is again, if this were the real world, say Andi was casually dating Nick, Josh and Chris - just hanging out with them each, not serious with anyone and seeing where it goes. Would someone judge Nick if let's say right after he and Andi have dinner and hang out, he calls her the next day to hang out again. Would someone say, "well she spent time with him so it's unfair to the other guys she's seeing?" Which is why again I don't think you can truly apply real world situations to this very unnatural situation. 

 

These people get at best a total of all of a few days to spend with this lead that they're supposed to be so in love with at some point. If someone wants to take every moment they can grab with them, why not. And again, she has the ability to say  no. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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These people get at best a total of all of a few days to spend with this lead that they're supposed to be so in love with at some point. If someone wants to take every moment they can grab with them, why not.

 

 

Totally agree. Apparently "being there for the right reasons" means focusing on one's relationship with the lead, which to me means seizing every opportunity to interact with them. Nothing at all wrong with that.

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Well I guess for some of the guys, being there "for the right reasons" means being there for Andi but do so in a way they deem gentlemanly, don't make it seem like you think you actually have a strong connection because that makes you arrogant and don't go comfort her if she's upset because that means you're actually being sneaky and  manipulative and not there for the right reasons. 

 

Thing is I don't even dislike the other guys so much for this as I suspect a lot of their attitude towards Nick came from being stuck in the bubble and the producers likely whispering in their ears, as they likely zeroed in on Nick as being the potential contestant they could edit as the villain. I mean has anyone seen one of the promos for this week's episode? There's cheesy romantic music being played over clips of what looks like Andi's second 1 on 1 with Chris and Josh and then this villainous music comes on with this hashtag of trickyNicky (no seriously, they wrote this) and two other hashtags asking if Andi should trust him or not. The whole thing is so ridiculously manipulated and I think that in itself is why I refuse to fall for it. Fleiss and company are not that good for me to buy that shit they're selling. 

 

So yeah with producers likely whispering about how awful Nick is, the group think mentality that happens while these guys are stuck in that bubble, suddenly Nick becomes just this awful, evil human being. But how interesting, that since the show's wrapped, judging by their social media activities, it's clear Nick is friends with JJ, Marquel, Brian, Chris and Mr.Thankful himself, Cody who was oh so hurt by Nick's comments. My suspicion, once the Bachelor bubble haze cleared, they always realized how stupid all that drama was.

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(edited)

I was just now able to watch last week's episode and I am so still laughing about the fart thing at the very end where they roll the credits.  During the lie detector test, the dude administering the test had a heavy accent, and when he asked if they had ever fought in public, they thought he said farted.  Then they showed everyone's response to the question and it was apparent they all thought the same thing.  They could barely contain their giggles (except for dear dear Chris who looked truly ashamed to admit that yes, he had farted in public).  The dude administering the test was not amused that these American men thought fighting in public was funny.

Edited by KYBlonde
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This was an interesting episode.  Italy is, on the whole, beautiful, although I find Venice disturbing.  Early reading of "Death in Venice" may have created part of this impression, but also the fetishization of creepy pigeons, the dankness of the air due to all the canals, the darkness even during daytime of very narrow walkways between crumbling buildings and unmoving canals... disturbing.  And awash in tourists.  Also, pizza is a southern Italian food, and not something to expect to be any better in Venice than it is in your average American strip mall.

I didn't spend a ton of time in Venice. I thought the Duomo was beautiful but once you leave the square it is crazy trying to navigate without getting lost. And I'm a wander around kind of person. They mentioned something about the whole city being beautiful but they mainly stayed around the square. Venice has a feeling of old world charm + tacky tourism awash in a miasma of decay. The water, especially closer to the city and in the canals is disgusting and many of the buildings have a dingy, dirty look. The idea that the city is sinking doesn't help. We took a boat out to the Murano glass factory and the water was clearer further out. We stayed in a dinky little hotel with very scratchy bedding that smelled like death. I was terrified I was going to discover bed bugs. The mask shops are super overpriced and very touristy. Oh, and pigeons are rats with wings. I say that as a New Yorker. I think I saw more pigeons at one time that I have ever seen in my life in that square and terrifyingly they loved to fly up in one big swarm. Disease-ridden monsters. Why would you feed them? Pigeons need more natural enemies. Other than me.

 

I think this whole "frontrunner" thing is nonsense but Nick has to be an idiot to be hurt to be called out as arrogant. That is his defining personality trait. Smug. Arrogant. He knows what he's been saying on camera. For me, it's not necessarily that he thinks he's better than the others but that he's better than this situation. He's better than lowering himself to participate. So am I, but I didn't sign up for this stupid show. Also, this is my shallowness coming through but I just find him creepy. He's like a less skeevy version of Tailor Made from I Love New York. He just gives me smarmy creeper vibes.

 

 

 

But I digress, frankly I'd be unhappy if I had to take a lie detector test however, mad at producers not Andi.

I agree but then they have to pretend the Andi plans all the dates (like she could actually afford all of this nonsense) so I guess it makes sense to direct their anger at her. 

 

If Chris actually wrote that secret admirer letter he has very nice handwriting.

 

Their faces when they realized the "date" was a lie detector test were hilarious. Yes, it had nothing to do with Venice. They could have at least pretended by making them go to the creepy dungeons and giving them some spiel about Cassanova. Though they probably wouldn't let them film down there and if they did it would be super cramped. I'm fairly short and even I was freaked out and feeling claustrophobic.

 

The guy asking Brian if he wanted kids made me laugh so hard. For some reason that moment it seemed like they were on a creepy date and he was actually posing the question. 

 

Chris is adorable. Not very expressive. But otherwise, he seems to be the nicest guy left.

 

Ugh. I don't know what you feel. You don't know what I feel. Welcome to being in a relationship. You don't get to know everything the other person is thinking and feeling. Try asking. Or trusting. You weirdos. I don't think Josh got that angry. Maybe they edited it out because he did mention a "heated argument."

 

The inspiration for Romeo and Juliet came from a story some Italian dude wrote. That's not a knock on Shakespeare. It was the practice at the time to adapt stories instead of writing wholly original material. Also, Juliet's an idiot. It's a cute sentiment but why would you ask her for advice? She's like 13 years old and makes terrible decisions. And these are supposed to be letters to Juliet and Cody talked about the girl of his dreams. Um... What happened to Romeo?

 

Oh, grumpy cat. Does she realize she's making that face?

 

On the one hand, the idea that Andi is a commodity that must be shared equally is stupid. On the other hand, you could easily devolve into a situation where people go in to grab her every 30 seconds.

 

Brian's letter was a total 10 Things I Hate About You ripoff.

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