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S17.E20: Dan Savage, Thom Hartmann, Allan Lichtman, Debra Soh, and Liz Mair

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I wish that Liz Mair would have finished her point, instead of repeatedly asking if she could finish her point. It didn’t seem like Bill gave the panel much time to discuss, or he just let the PhD talk for longer. 

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Good show tonight, though there was a lot of overtalking. Can’t believe that Dan Savage’s son is an adult now ( I think he may be 20). Liz Mair was a great guest;made her points without being obnoxious at  all.

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For somebody with so many opinions about transgender issues, you’d think Bill Maher would, you know, actually ever have somebody who’s transgender and/or a transgender activist on his show.  But when’s the last time he actually had such a guest?

If he did so he might— and now this is just a thought here— actually hear what they had to say rather than constantly talking about it second or third hand with people like Debra Soh.  And (I’m just spitballing ideas here) maybe if he had somebody who was actually transgender and/or a transgender activist on his show there could be some genuine discussion and debate rather than just himself, somebody who’s not a member of a particular minority and who doesn’t offer any actual representation of that minority on his show, frequently lecturing and pontificating to that minority about what they’re supposedly thinking and doing, what they should do, and how they and their supporters should act.

Because that last part sure sounds just a wee bit like exactly what constitutes bigotry.  And the genuine article, the kind that can’t be dismissed simply by crying “political correctness” and running away.  

Maher prides himself on bringing on Republicans and conservatives and pats himself (and his conservative guests) on the back a lot about not being afraid to confront people with opposing views.  But this policy seems to have broken down for Maher when it comes to having an actual transgender guest to discuss the many criticisms and conjectures Maher offers about that subject on his show.  I wonder why.

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59 minutes ago, bobbyjoe said:

For somebody with so many opinions about transgender issues, you’d think Bill Maher would, you know, actually ever have somebody who’s transgender and/or a transgender activist on his show.  But when’s the last time he actually had such a guest?

I know he's had Janice Mock on the show. I think that was back in 2015. 

The look on Dan Savage's face when Bill was equating "I want an XBox" to "I want to be a girl" was priceless. That entire interview with Debra Soh made me cringe. 

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What was the point of Debra Soh's appearance anyway? Was it just to reinforce the latest chip on Bill's shoulder, about allegedly overindulgent parents? However, I agree that giving sex drugs to pre-pubescent children is a dubious solution at best. 

And is it just me, or was Bill's final New Rule (Oprah for President) not the least bit funny? The best I can hope for is that nobody takes the idea seriously.  

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15 minutes ago, arachne said:

What was the point of Debra Soh's appearance anyway? Was it just to reinforce the latest chip on Bill's shoulder, about allegedly overindulgent parents? 

And academia!  Don't forget that one!

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And is it just me, or was Bill's final New Rule (Oprah for President) not the least bit funny? The best I can hope for is that nobody takes the idea seriously.  

Of course I didn't take it seriously, the real contender is Judge Judy.

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10 minutes ago, arachne said:

And is it just me, or was Bill's final New Rule (Oprah for President) not the least bit funny? The best I can hope for is that nobody takes the idea seriously.  

You're not the only one. If Bill was trying to make a point about Oprah, he failed miserably at that.

1 hour ago, bobbyjoe said:

For somebody with so many opinions about transgender issues, you’d think Bill Maher would, you know, actually ever have somebody who’s transgender and/or a transgender activist on his show.  But when’s the last time he actually had such a guest?

If he did so he might— and now this is just a thought here— actually hear what they had to say rather than constantly talking about it second or third hand with people like Debra Soh.  And (I’m just spitballing ideas here) maybe if he had somebody who was actually transgender and/or a transgender activist on his show there could be some genuine discussion and debate rather than just himself, somebody who’s not a member of a particular minority and who doesn’t offer any actual representation of that minority on his show, frequently lecturing and pontificating to that minority about what they’re supposedly thinking and doing, what they should do, and how they and their supporters should act.

Because that last part sure sounds just a wee bit like exactly what constitutes bigotry.  And the genuine article, the kind that can’t be dismissed simply by crying “political correctness” and running away.  

Maher prides himself on bringing on Republicans and conservatives and pats himself (and his conservative guests) on the back a lot about not being afraid to confront people with opposing views.  But this policy seems to have broken down for Maher when it comes to having an actual transgender guest to discuss the many criticisms and conjectures Maher offers about that subject on his show.  I wonder why.

I'm going to take a guess and say that Bill is terrified of transgendered people because he might find himself attracted to a trans woman.

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This whole bullshit with Biden is what is wrong with our elections. It's over 500 days till the election. No one is saying or doing anything right now that will mean shit next year. 

I have to agree with Bill when people knock Obama for not doing enough. He had to bail out the auto industry. Sorry he couldn't do everything all the time. 

There is not a trend in academia where political correctness trumps science. Everyone is too fucking busy doing the actual science. Bill has no idea what goes on in academia. 

I'm not disputing what the woman was saying, but wow Bill. Dan and Liz were beside themselves. I have no idea why this was such a topic. 

I'm predisposed to like Liz because she talks in the same tone as a mentor that I just adore. 

Edited by ganesh
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I don't dispute the woman's expertise, but she's a brick. I got sick of her 10 minutes in. 

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Didn't Bill say on the show last year that Oprah running would be dumb as fuck? 

I don't like Reagan but he was governor of CA before he ran for president. By that time he was an accepted politician. 

Edited by ganesh
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The reason all the news is focusing on Biden's gaffe instead of the latest idiotic thing Trump has said or done is because the Democratic primaries are new. Trump is old news. I'm sure the media is sick to death of reporting things about Trump. There's no reason to look any deeper than that. 

The alligator with the knife in its skull should be on the Florida state flag, not the Texas. 

For what it's worth I totally agree Oprah should run for president and would win in a landslide. I'm not sure what Bill was trying to do by saying "I'm not saying she should run but she would win" because - she would totally win. I agree that's the culture we're living in now. She's a sure thing, which is something that cannot be said about any of the 23 Democratic primary hopefuls. 

Max Brooks next week!

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Drove me nuts how Bill essentially said all Debra Soh’s talking points before he even let her get in a word edgewise.  

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19 hours ago, arachne said:

What was the point of Debra Soh's appearance anyway? Was it just to reinforce the latest chip on Bill's shoulder, about allegedly overindulgent parents? However, I agree that giving sex drugs to pre-pubescent children is a dubious solution at best.

Basically it's to provide cover for Bill's bigotry while allowing him to say he provides a forum for those who have been censored by political correctness. It's Science(TM) that says we need to stop being so accepting of transgender individuals, not Bill's ignorance!

19 hours ago, Victor the Crab said:

I'm going to take a guess and say that Bill is terrified of transgendered people because he might find himself attracted to a trans woman.

My own theory is it's more about him turning into a grumpy old man. His self image is as a progressive who supports inclusiveness and equality while maintaining a high degree of intellectual rigor and skepticism and telling hard truths. So if an issue comes along where Bill is not on the side of inclusiveness and progress it must be political correctness run amok. I'm not sure he's terrified so much as just a little squicked out. He's always been pretty much a traditionalist when it comes to gender roles even if he wants to believe otherwise (sorry, but not believing marriage and advocating for every woman to have the right to have plenty of sex with you with no strings attached doesn't make you an advocate for women's equality) and this is no exception.

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18 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The reason all the news is focusing on Biden's gaffe instead of the latest idiotic thing Trump has said or done is because the Democratic primaries are new. Trump is old news. I'm sure the media is sick to death of reporting things about Trump. There's no reason to look any deeper than that. 

The alligator with the knife in its skull should be on the Florida state flag, not the Texas. 

For what it's worth I totally agree Oprah should run for president and would win in a landslide. I'm not sure what Bill was trying to do by saying "I'm not saying she should run but she would win" because - she would totally win. I agree that's the culture we're living in now. She's a sure thing, which is something that cannot be said about any of the 23 Democratic primary hopefuls. 

Max Brooks next week!

the alligator photo made me sad and sick to my stomach. i hope it is superficial and falls out and he is ok. i fucking hate people. 

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I’m always thrilled whenever Dan Savage is on. Love him to pieces.

But, WHAT THE FUCK with Soh’s last sentence before Bill went to New Rules: “Racist against Whites.” 😒

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4 hours ago, wknt3 said:

sorry, but not believing marriage and advocating for every woman to have the right to have plenty of sex with you with no strings attached doesn't make you an advocate for women's equality

It just makes you an asshole. 

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On 6/22/2019 at 11:35 AM, littlecatsfeet said:

That entire interview with Debra Soh made me cringe. 

For me the most amazing part was when she'd just spent all this time talking about how we have to look to science to see what's really going on...and then merrily pontificated about how if there's a statistic showing how the millions of people in a certain age group seem to be having less sex than previous people in that age group, it's obviously because the girls are all being taught in school about toxic masculinity (which she thinks means that men are bad) and the MeToo movement has gone "off the rails" whatever that means and boys are naturally therefore just afraid that if they have sex with a woman she's going to accuse them of rape.

Because that's totally science. No wild conclusions there based on her own ideas as somebody who "used to" call herself feminist and still is liberal but is not "far left."

Also, I don't get why being "pragmatic" always means lining up to defend Biden. Of course many black voters aren't bothered by what he said just as they weren't by the blackface governor--that's because they aren't surprised at any white politician saying this stuff. That doesn't mean we should spend the whole election arguing about Biden is not as bad as Trump.

I was also disappointed in the whole "but it's insensitive to call them concentration camps when there aren't gas chambers and Obama did it too" line.

Edited by sistermagpie
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1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Because that's totally science. 

Bwhaha no shit. I think she's in the science of liking her own voice. I noticed she didn't really have a scientific answer for Savage's correct scientific fact that trans women are being murdered at a horiffic rate. 

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[Bill Maher:] Democrats need to get more tough like the Republicans do!  I'm sick of people whining about what kind of language we can use, and telling us all what we can and can't say!  It's an outrage and I'm gonna talk about it every single show, on and on and on and on and...

[Also Bill Maher:]  Some Democrats have dared to use the phrase "concentration camps" to compare to immigrant detention centers.  This is terrible!  Don't they know they need to be much more careful with their language!  Don't they know this is going to upset some people????!!!!!  Why can't Democrats be more cautious and use the proper language???!!!  Pass my smelling salts, I think I might faint!

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21 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I was also disappointed in the whole "but it's insensitive to call them concentration camps when there aren't gas chambers and Obama did it too" line.

This pisses me off to no end. Every Jewish person I know, myself included, understands the importance of calling them what they are, which is concentration camps. It's only the people that weren't directly affected by the Holocaust who are saying that word isn't right. Because we know that if we don't use that word, things will just get worse. And I don't care if they existed during Obama's time, they exist now and they are getting worse. 

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10 minutes ago, rwlevin said:

This pisses me off to no end. Every Jewish person I know, myself included, understands the importance of calling them what they are, which is concentration camps. It's only the people that weren't directly affected by the Holocaust who are saying that word isn't right. Because we know that if we don't use that word, things will just get worse.

It makes you wonder when exactly people think it's wrong. As if the camps were okay until they reached the exact conditions we know from the end of the war. (Meanwhile distinctions apparently don't matter when they're pretending these things existed under Obama.) Bill Maher was even defending them on the basis that they weren't being held without trial since they technically waiting for trial--even though he used "technically true" pejoratively when objecting to the name concentration camp.

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I don't care if you call it rocky road ice cream - it's going on, it's wrong. All this semantic waltz accomplishes nothing. 

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19 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

It makes you wonder when exactly people think it's wrong. As if the camps were okay until they reached the exact conditions we know from the end of the war. (Meanwhile distinctions apparently don't matter when they're pretending these things existed under Obama.) Bill Maher was even defending them on the basis that they weren't being held without trial since they technically waiting for trial--even though he used "technically true" pejoratively when objecting to the name concentration camp.

Bill was so aflutter that he kept overtalking Dan Savage, who was trying to say that Hitler's concentration camps didn't start out as death camps, but that is where they ended up.   When Dan finally was able to get a word in edgewise and make that point, Bill asked if Dan thinks that's where these camps are heading.  How I wish Dan had said he doesn't know where they are heading, but that he does know they are getting worse and worse, and then asked Bill where HE thinks these camps are going?  Like, what is the resolution that Bill sees that doesn't lead to deaths of children, especially since asylum seekers are dying in our custody already, as will more since we are not providing soap, much less adequate medical care for the people we locked up.  I mean, we have already normalized a term for taking babies away from their mothers and locking them up separately - family separation.  What else might be normalized before Bill thinks it's ok to call them concentration camps?

Edited by izabella
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Why does Dan Savage feel the need to repeatedly say his son is NOT GAY.  "Not Gay.  I swear he's not gay.  I want to be clear, my son is not gay."  

Geez, we get it.  Your son DJ is in 20s and clearly NOT GAY.   It almost sounds like he's embarrassed that his son is straight.

Edited by xingu

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On 6/26/2019 at 3:44 AM, xingu said:

Why does Dan Savage feel the need to repeatedly say his son is NOT GAY.  "Not Gay.  I swear he's not gay.  I want to be clear, my son is not gay."  

Geez, we get it.  Your son DJ is in 20s and clearly NOT GAY.   It almost sounds like he's embarrassed that his son is straight.

I interpreted it as Dan possibly clarifying DJ’s orientation for any of his friends, employers or potential love interests (past, present or future) who might have been watching. 

I know that most kids of celebrities hate it when their parents talk about them on TV, so after sharing that particularly personal nugget from DJ’s adolescence, maybe Dan knew that by clarifying DJ’s sexual orientation, it was the only way to tell the story and make sure his son wouldn’t be pissed at him after the show aired? 

Edited by Bridget
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1 hour ago, Bridget said:

I interpreted it as Dan clarifying DJ’s orientation for any of his friends, employers or potential love interests (past, present or future) who might have been watching. 

I know that most kids of celebrities hate it when their parents talk about them on TV, so after sharing that particularly personal  nugget from DJ’s adolescence, maybe Dan knew that by clarifying DJ’s sexual orientation, it was the only way to tell the story and make sure his son wouldn’t be pissed at him after the show aired? 

Or maybe clarify for those assholes that just because one is gay doesn’t mean the children you have and raise, will grow up to also be gay, lesbian, trans, etc. BECAUSE being such isn’t something that one  learns or is raised to be. How many have straight/heterosexual parents?

I didn’t pay any attention to it because I knew where he was coming from.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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I think that's what he meant and he also had to provide some context for his point. 

He also was saying that, yes, the research is what it is, but that there wasn't harm in letting kids self identify if it gives them some piece of mind. 

We work so hard in our field to talk to people about science the right way, and she came off as so cold and condescending. What would she do if it was her kid? 

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