S04.E03: Man vs Rock

[formerlyfreedom]

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As Craig feels the pressure of pulling off Frankie’s increasingly complicated job, J grows frustrated with Mia. Deran tries to get Pope out of the house, and Smurf decides she needs answers.

Airing Tuesday, June 11, 2019

[Chaos Theory]

I am really liking Shifty Crackhead Bones.  Fine Angela.   But I also like the fact that J is so much not happy to see her because he is kinda pissy about his entire childhood and she is soooooooooo going on the list of people he destroys in the name of his horrible terrible childhood and mommy issues.  

Speaking of mommy issues......

Smurf having skin cancer is all kinds of funny because she is a serpent and can;t they just shed their skin?

Also Craig's plan was almost clever. Might just be a fun heist.

I am not sure if Deren hiring Pope is going to backfire or not.  

The Mia plot is the only one that I really dislike.  

[Laurie4H]

So Smurf has melanoma that spread to her lymph nodes, bones, and liver?  I would think she would be a lot sicker than she seems.

Wasn’t Mia shown to be the one to kill Baz or am I wrong.

[tennisgurl]

I guess Smurf has always taken walks on the wild side, even when she was younger. Its still super creepy to me how she basically interacts with the guys she sleeps with the way she interacts with her sons/grandson. Her interactions with the Vietnam vet guy seem like how she talks to Pope sometimes, but with more confidence with her old age. Older Smurf is a pro at manipulating, and it seems like we are seeing her perfecting her craft. 

Craig repeating the man vs rock thing to Deran was hilarious, especially as Deran just looked confused. That sounds like it might be a cool heist if Craig can actually keep it up. 

[mxc90]

2 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

 Wasn’t Mia shown to be the one to kill Baz or am I wrong.

Mia was the shooter.

I guess the none of the boys or Angela found Smurf passed out on the ground and she just got up and went to the hospital.

There is a mouse in the fryer and Deran's not bothered by it? A "B" rating gives the bar cred? Pope screamed there's a mouse when customers were in the bar (they probably heard and stayed).

I can't figure Mia. Did she decide to shoot Lencho after J's tirade and prove to him she's not his to control? Or Lencho must have treated her very wrong when she was 12 (grandma always in the house did nothing) and she was waiting a long time for the moment he got out of jail. 

In broad daylight, no one in the neighborhood saw Mia shoot him?

Pope wasn't fazed when J told the story of what Angela did to him and Julia. I guess that Hep-C story really got to him!

Melanoma! Smurf is now that old lioness.

Is there a running joke to find a way to waste hundred dollars every week?

What were those two security guards doing as the place was being trashed?

[peridot]

It looks like Angela is running game on J and Pope.  J almost shot daggers out of his eyes when she brought up his game.  I wouldn't be surprised if she's his next victim.

During the flashback with Janine, I thought she was driving the gang's getaway car when she was doing that dumb counting.  Too bad for that hippie!

Mia's ex-con boyfriend is a moron.  How can someone be a guy's girlfriend for the summer, when she was just a child?  I hope she kills him next.

[Novel8]

Ok, so what does Smurf do? Does she tell the boys of her cancer? I doubt it, it would make her too vulnerable.

Who said Niki is gone...she has been replaced by Mia.

What was that scene all about with Smurf and the fisherman? Didn't make any sense.

OK, wasn't Baz ( Speedman  ) killed off so he could take on a role In "Grey's Anatomy"?

No more Billy???

[patty1h]

I also am perplexed why Smurf asked the fisherman for the fish.  At first, I thought that she was going to release it back into the ocean, because she's now in an "all life is precious" mindset after hearing her diagnosis and wanted the fish to live.  But, instead, she stares down at it and walks away, like she wanted to see another creature suffer.   She is hardcore.

[Chaos Theory]

5 hours ago, peridot said:

It looks like Angela is running game on J and Pope.  J almost shot daggers out of his eyes when she brought up his game.  I wouldn't be surprised if she's his next victim.

I am not sure what Angela’s agenda is at this point.  She just up and questioned what J was doing with the Cody’s and promised not to rat him out whatever his scam was.  We also got some insight into why J doesn’t particularly trust her but he is blinded and not a particularly reliable narrative on the past.  Yeah Angela was a junkie who stole from his mom.  But his mom was a junkie too......I don’t think J sees that too clearly.  

I would find it far more interesting if Angela is truly their to help J but he is too far gone in his need for revenge to let her.  

Edited June 12, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[HollyG]

44 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am not sure what Angela’s agenda is at this point.  She just up and questioned what J was doing with the Cody’s and promised not to eat him out whatever his scam was.

I couldn't tell if Angela wants in on whatever scam the Cody's have going, or if she just needs a place to stay/start over...  or if she is there as a CI to sell them all out. I keep thinking that's why she was released from prison.

They need to speed up the story with the new crime family and connect them to the Codys soon. It's like I'm watching a completely different series every time they have a new scene.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Meh, I feel like I don't want to see the Codys do a big art heist. Why keep upping the ante? At this rate the show will have them steal the Golden Gate Bridge or something.

Whoa, guess this might be the final season after all if Smurf is on a death  countdown. I don't see the show continuing without her.

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In broad daylight, no one in the neigh borhood saw Mia shoot him?

It might be one of those neighborhoods where people know to keep their mouths shut lest they get shot too. I could see someone trying to blackmail Mia though. At their peril.

[iMonrey]

This season is off to a slow start, although I recall feeling similarly about last season. I really don't like all the flashbacks to Smurf's younger days. I was fine with them in the season premier but now I find them annoying and too time-consuming. I would rather they focus on the present day characters. It very much feels like this season is leading up to Smurf's death. I haven't heard anything about this being their last season, but I can't imagine the show going on without Smurf. She's sort of the anchor of this show.

Now that J has seen what Mia can do I hope he takes her for a nice boat ride. She seems like another character that has overstayed her welcome. I really want J to find out she's the one who shot Baz (and Lucy).

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They need to speed up the story with the new crime family and connect them to the Codys soon. 

What new crime family? Pete and his gang have been around since Season 2. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by iMonrey

[Dowel Jones]

So Pope wanted to be a bouncer at Deran's bar.  I don't think the B rating would matter for very long after that.

Craig definitely has the right idea; get someone else to move the sculpture.  However, they only have a short time to plan where they're going to take the hijacked truck, and what to do after they have it hidden.  And who says they're getting paid after all is said and done?

3 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

It might be one of those neighborhoods where people know to keep their mouths shut lest they get shot too.

Mia did blurt something like that out as soon as she got back in the car. It looks like she is trying to set J up for death, as her "foster brother" swears revenge on him.  Unfortunately, if Lencho's grandmother did see the murder, she might go directly to Pete, and Mia is toast.

I think the deal with the security guards was that they saw the CC footage, went all the way to the garage to go after Craig, while Deran only took a minute or two to complete his destruction, more than enough to get away before they could get back to the lobby.

[HollyG]

10 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

This season is off to a slow start, although I recall feeling similarly about last season. I really don't like all the flashbacks to Smurf's younger days. I was fine with them in the season premier but now I find them annoying and too time-consuming. I would rather they focus on the present day characters. It very much feels like this season is leading up to Smurf's death. I haven't heard anything about this being their last season, but I can't imagine the show going on without Smurf. She's sort of the anchor of this show.

Now that J has seen what Mia can do I hope he takes her for a nice boat ride. She seems like another character that has overstayed her welcome. I really want J to find out she's the one who shot Baz (and Lucy).

What new crime family? Pete and his gang have been around since Season 2. 

Sorry, guess I don't remember them. 

[topanga]

25 minutes ago, HollyG said:

They need to speed up the story with the new crime family and connect them to the Codys soon. It's like I'm watching a completely different series every time they have a new scene.

Which new crime family? Mia and her (other) boyfriend? Neither one of them interests me much. I can't figure out what J sees in Mia (besides her beauty). Didn't the Latino boyfriend say he wants Mia to be a part of whatever job the Cody's are doing? Yeah, that's going to go over well with Smurf and the brothers.

I enjoyed this episode, but it felt like filler. Not very much happened plot-wise. 

And I enjoyed the first few Smurf flashbacks, but they don't need to take up so much time in every episode. I find current Smurf interesting, but I honestly don't care much young femme-fatale Smurf. I will compliment the actress for studying Ellen Barkin well. She has a lot of Barkin's mannerisms down pat--her speaking style and even some of her facial expressions, for example. 

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am not sure what Angela’s agenda is at this point.  She just up and questioned what J was doing with the Cody’s and promised not to eat him out whatever his scam was.  We also got some insight into why J doesn’t particularly trust her but he is blinded and not a particularly reliable narrative on the past.  Yeah Angela was a junkie who stole from his mom.  But his mom was a junkie too......I don’t think J sees that too clearly.  

I would find it far more interesting if Angela is truly their to help J but he is too far gone in his need for revenge to let her.  

Angela is all about Angela. She tried to find a way in through Smurf, and now she's using Pope to weasel her way into the family. I don't know what her long-con is, though. 

And I'm glad she's clean, but I don't believe she's changed. If she had, I'd expect to hear more rehab talk--atoning for past behavior, strong commitment to being honest, apologizing to people you've wronged in the past, etc. 

So I'm Team J when it comes to Angela. And I couldn't help but smile and shake my head when Smurf encouraged J to get Angela using again.  Just be careful with the needles, J. You don't want to end up Hep C positive.*

*speaking of Hep C, I have 2 medical nit-picks with last night's episode. First, there's no such thing as acute Hep C--vs. chronic. There's early Hep C, when you don't have any signs of liver damage yet. I think that's what Angela meant. But once you contract Hep C, you always have it. It's like herpes or HIV. Doesn't go away.  Second, Smurf wore headphones and was probably supposed to have an MRI scan. But she was going through a CT scanner. A CT scan is the donut-shaped machine we saw, and she wouldn't need headphones for that. MRIs are coffin-like tunnel machines.

[HollyG]

4 minutes ago, topanga said:

Which new crime family? Mia and her (other) boyfriend? Neither one of them interests me much.

I was referring to Pete and his gang. I didn't remember him from last season. I am also not interested in either gang.

[topanga]

28 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Meh, I feel like I don't want to see the Codys do a big art heist. Why keep upping the ante? At this rate the show will have them steal the Golden Gate Bridge or something.

Yeah, I don't like this heist. Too much trouble for a large, but not large enough IMO, payoff. Doesn't seem worth it. 

Does the blond lady even have a potential buyer for that hunk of concrete? Or was it the young tech billionaire who says he wanted it? I don't know, I just do not trust Craig's new partner. I feel like she's going to double-cross Craig and the Cody family in a big way. 

And didn't they make millions from the church robbery last season? Whatever the take, you mean ALL of their profits are gone? It seems like Smurf and J are the only ones who've heard of a little thing called saving your money. 

[Ohwell]

46 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I really don't like all the flashbacks to Smurf's younger days. I was fine with them in the season premier but now I find them annoying and too time-consuming. I would rather they focus on the present day characters.

I feel the same.  I've seen enough of young Smurf and her crew.

[Chaos Theory]

Angela being out of prison isn’t too much of a stretch.  She said it herself.  She didn't kill anyone.  Even Pope got out of prison and he was more of a legit threat.

And I know a couple people who have gotten sober and never went to AA or NA.  Honestly Angela may be trying to make amends by helping J but J HAS killed someone.  It would be interesting if she turns out to be essentially an innocent that gets destroyed in whatever war J is fighting.  

Edited June 12, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[SuzieQ]

Some random thoughts----

The Smurf flashbacks are getting a little tiresome.  They were interesting up to a point and I'm sure it will tie in soon, but they are taking a long time to get there.  We get it!

Craig's plan is pretty brilliant.  He has potential to be much smarter than he acts.  Maybe with Smurf and Baz calling all the shots previously, he never had a chance to step up? But then again, when he repeated word for word to Deran, what Frankie said to him, I literally LOL'd!  That's the Craig we know and love!

Smurf telling J to re-aquaint with Angela was weird and creepy.  Since she seems to know everything going on, she must know he was annoyed at the sight of her.  That seemed kind of ominous to me.

[Ohwell]

I think Craig is hot but "dressed up, cool Craig" in the man bun just looks stupid.  I know that's probably a UO though.

 

20 hours ago, mxc90 said:

There is a mouse in the fryer and Deran's not bothered by it? A "B" rating gives the bar cred? Pope screamed there's a mouse when customers were in the bar (they probably heard and stayed).

You know, the funny thing is, the customer probably wouldn't give a shit if they found out about the mouse in the fryer.  They'd probably just drink more alcohol.  

[tennisgurl]

Pope apparently has high standards his place of employment, even if it’s Derans beach front dive bar. “A “B”grade? Think about the people with hepatitis Deran!”

Edited June 12, 2019 by tennisgurl

[HollyG]

6 hours ago, peridot said:

During the flashback with Janine, I thought she was driving the gang's getaway car when she was doing that dumb counting.  Too bad for that hippie!

Whoa... I feel dumb! I must have really not been paying attention, because I had no idea that was supposed to be Smurf in the flashbacks. Now it makes more sense. Must pay better attention!

[iMonrey]

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I was referring to Pete and his gang. I didn't remember him from last season. I am also not interested in either gang.

Pete runs a garage called "Little Pete's." He was providing protection to Smurf while she was in jail. He had someone on the inside guarding her. Don't know her name for the life of me, but she's out now too, we saw her playing poker with them or whatever they were doing in this episode. Smurf also hired Pete to kill Baz - we saw Mia as the shooter in the flashback. Mia works at Pete's garage. When Smurf got out of jail she paid Pete a visit and gave him a big envelope of money. Then she paid him more, to go kidnap Lucy's brother. 

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Angela is all about Angela. She tried to find a way in through Smurf, and now she's using Pope to weasel her way into the family. I don't know what her long-con is, though. 

I thought she was being a little too obvious, and a little too desperate, the way she kept bringing up Julia stories. She's trying to impress on Pope how tied she is to him through Julia. It's like something people do when they have one connection to someone, they keep bringing it up over and over again.

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And I couldn't help but smile and shake my head when Smurf encouraged J to get Angela using again. 

Is that what she was suggesting? I couldn't figure it out. All she said was they should get reacquainted. 

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Does the blond lady even have a potential buyer for that hunk of concrete? Or was it the young tech billionaire who says he wanted it?

It was the rich dude they met with last week, The one who said to Craig "So you're the thief." Frankie said he invented some kind of app. He had bid on that art project and lost to another buyer.

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And didn't they make millions from the church robbery last season?

Heh, that was Season 2. I think their overall take was about a million, split five ways. I do wonder how much money they need though. They had a huge haul from the airplane heist too. They also had a huge haul from Camp Pendleton back in Season 1.

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Pope apparently has high standards his place of employment, even if it’s Derans beach front dive bar. “A “B”grade? Think about the people with hepatitis Deran!

I had forgotten about Pope's OCD with cleanliness. I remember back in season 1, he was waiting for either Deran or Craig - I can't remember which - at their house, and he cleaned it while he was waiting for them. 

[iMonrey]

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I think Craig is hot but "dressed up, cool Craig" in the man bun just looks stupid.  I know that's probably a UO though.

A man bun always looks stupid to me. But Ben Robson does clean up well, if you Google some images of him pre-Animal Kingdom, without the greasy long hair and all the tats. 

[topanga]

55 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

A man bun always looks stupid to me. But Ben Robson does clean up well, if you Google some images of him pre-Animal Kingdom, without the greasy long hair and all the tats. 

Yum. He looks like a cross between a male model and a preppy frat bro jerk in this picture. 

Almost looks like a different guy

[Chaos Theory]

The Cody's make alot of money on their respective heists but they also have a high standard of living they need to maintain.  They all like their expensive toys and their expensive homes.  Derren goes surfing on the regular and owns a bar that he finances through the robberies.  I doubt he is making enough for either with tips.    Plus the bar did get robbed by daddy dearest last season.

4 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I think Craig is hot but "dressed up, cool Craig" in the man bun just looks stupid.  I know that's probably a UO though.

And here I was thinking that Craig AND Deren do clean up nicely.  

[mxc90]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I had forgotten about Pope's OCD with cleanliness. I remember back in season 1, he was waiting for either Deran or Craig - I can't remember which - at their house, and he cleaned it while he was waiting for them

In Season 1, Pope gave Baz a serious lecture on sponge maintenance/bacteria. Since that episode, I've never looked at a sponge the same again.

[Ohwell]

32 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

And here I was thinking that Craig AND Deren do clean up nicely.  

Oh I think Craig cleans up nicely, I just wish he'd lose the bun.

[MrWhyt]

20 hours ago, mxc90 said:

I can't figure Mia. Did she decide to shoot Lencho after J's tirade and prove to him she's not his to control? Or Lencho must have treated her very wrong when she was 12 (grandma always in the house did nothing) and she was waiting a long time for the moment he got out of jail. 

a little from column A, a little from column B? perhaps she was planning to kill him and used the opportunity to show J that's she's not under his thumb.

[Dessert]

This art heist seems like a looming disaster to me. It was clever of Craig to figure out how to get the owner to move the piece himself, but surely the art and the truck will have all kinds of tracking devices built into them. Once the truck is highjacked, they’ll still be slowly driving this enormous whale to their destination.

[MaggieG]

I laughed when Craig offered Deran a mimosa and he asked if they were at a bridal shower.

[iMonrey]

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Oh I think Craig cleans up nicely, I just wish he'd lose the bun.

Agreed. I don't mind when they pull their hair back into a ponytail but I'll never understand how the man-bun became a thing. It looks ridiculous. 

[SuzieQ]

Just read on FB that the actress who plays young Smurf is Vincent D'Onofrio's daughter.  I didn't know that!

[talktoomuch]

On 6/12/2019 at 5:44 PM, Chaos Theory said:

The Cody's make alot of money on their respective heists but they also have a high standard of living they need to maintain.  They all like their expensive toys and their expensive homes.  Derren goes surfing on the regular and owns a bar that he finances through the robberies.  I doubt he is making enough for either with tips.    Plus the bar did get robbed by daddy dearest last season. 

They do spend a LOT of money all the time. And remember: when Smurf was still running all the jobs, she never gave them a full share. She always kept the bulk "for them" which led to the whole showdown with Baz.

[BonnieD]

no redeeming characters here. If this isn't the last season, I wish it would be. I just want to see it tied up and then never have to watch it again. Such darkness and lack of any positive character traits to root for. I love an anti hero show, but not this one. Not any more. Actually, not since they left the old lady with dementia on a bench and drove away a couple of seasons ago. I need to see Smurf sent back to prison for good, and all her messed up progeny along with her.

[luckylou]

On 6/12/2019 at 11:19 AM, Ohwell said:

I feel the same.  I've seen enough of young Smurf and her crew.

Of interest to me is we are also meeting young Jake (Craig’s father), Colin, (probably Pope and Julia’s dad and J’s granddad,)Lou, (Javi’s dad,) and a young Manny.

[Chaos Theory]

I love this show and wouldn’t mind if it went on for a few more years.  I love the Cody boys and find their relationship with Smurf fascinating.     I don’t care if characters are redeemable or not.  Actually with this type of show I prefer it when they aren’t.  I am also ok if none of them get caught.   I love how dark and devious Smurf is.   She isn’t breaking bad she is someone who broke bad years ago and the ramifications have effected how she raised her children.

i am still not sure how I feel about J.  Sometimes I want him to shut up about his crappy childhood.  He blames everyone for his issues and for some reason doesn’t see his mother as anything but a victim.   That is the only thing that annoys me about the show.   I am supposed  to identify with J but he is the only one I don’t identify with.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[iMonrey]

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no redeeming characters here. 

I agree the show took a dark turn the minute J left Morgan out at sea to die. I think up until that point he was the one redeemable character (although I agree what they did to that old lady with dementia was horrifying). 

Strangely, I still find Pope fascinating, even though he is arguably the most horrible, having committed multiple murders. There's just something about the way Sean Hatosy plays him that makes his somehow seem vulnerable.

So even though I agree there's nobody "redeeming" on the show, I still find it highly compelling.

[Novel8]

I feel the show drags whenever mopie Pope comes on the screen...sick of looking at him, and that Frankie...man she is a dog....oops, I take that back...a dog is prettier.

[martha21]

I'm enjoying the show still, and I like seeing young Smurf. I'm fascinated by her past and how she got where she is today, as well as seeing the men in her life when she was younger. I feel it breaks up the current plots nicely and it's cool to see the connections between past and present.

With the fisherman scene, what I took from that was Smurf reconfirming to herself that men (I'd say people, but I think Smurf has a different vision of men than women) will do anything for money even if it's cruel, and also that she is still an effective manipulator. At first when the fish was suffering, the fisherman was going to stun it so it wouldn't suffer. But she made it clear that he was getting the money for allowing the fish to suffer and die while he just stood by and did nothing. And so he did, he took the money and did nothing. I wonder if he'd refused the money, stunned the fish, or anything else maybe she would have felt less in control of things, but it reconfirmed her manipulative effectiveness and her way of life. YMMV.

[topanga]

On 6/19/2019 at 10:26 AM, Novel8 said:

I feel the show drags whenever mopie Pope comes on the screen...sick of looking at him, and that Frankie...man she is a dog....oops, I take that back...a dog is prettier.

I don't think Frankie is butt-ugly, but she reminds me of Mirage from The Incredibles cartoon--the lady who recruited Bob Parr back into the superhero life. 

I think it's the blond hair, slim build, and angular facial features. 

[Ohwell]

I don't think Frankie is butt ugly, but I'd call her interesting-looking.  What really bugs me about her is that she thinks she's all that, and she clearly isn't.  

[Shellbell59]

On 6/11/2019 at 7:16 PM, Laurie4H said:

So Smurf has melanoma that spread to her lymph nodes, bones, and liver?  I would think she would be a lot sicker than she seems.

Wasn’t Mia shown to be the one to kill Baz or am I wrong.

Yes that was revealed....and because of Smurf affiliation w/ her uncle Pete....reveals Smurf put out the hit....that was just my theory...UNTIL it was confirmed in the “EXTRA” episodes On Demand where actor who plays Pope comes out and says it...flat out...Smurf’s order to hit Baz