S01.E07: Possession

[maraleia]

 

Sir Malcolm, Ethan and Sembene do everything they can to save Vanessa.

 

[BuddhaBelly]

And that was the last we saw of Ethan Chandler...

 

That was a trilling bottle episode. Vanessa and Ethan continue to be my two favorite characters. They have such lovely chemistry together. Ethan seems to have a significant weak spot for women in peril.

 

Who the hell is he though? When he busted out with the Latin I did a sharp doubletake.

[Guest]

So is Ethan a werewolf or the devil or a secret exorcist devil werewolf? Is he going to the prom with Bella Swan next week?

Fucking Caliban. He's like the Robert John Bardo of Victorian England.

[TudorQueen]

Great episode in many ways - lots of one on one scenes between various characters that revealed so much, and Eva Green delivered again.

 

I'm weird and I admit it, but it bothers me that with each episode, Chandler is built up more and more as this Ultimate Hero (he's a sharpshooter, he has depth, he's a gentleman, he's running from a sordid past, ooh, now he's an Exorcist!) all the while getting more and more judgmental of everyone but his beloved Brona and his adored Ivy. Meanwhile Sir Malcolm is just universally despised by everyone, including those he takes into his confidence (like Frankenstein), and when he tries to show kindness or growth, it's shunted aside ("I know where Mina is!"). And it's not just because Sir Malcolm is played by Timothy Dalton (who I've loved since "Lion in Winter") though that does help.

 

I love how Brona and Ethan make each other smile and have so much fun together when she isn't actively consumptive. I love the arch flirtation between Dorian and Ivy (and that he makes her smile). Now I want someone to make Sir Malcolm smile.

[I-Kare]

Wow, loved this episode! Probably one of my faves, although to be honest I have a lot of fave eps with this show. 

 

I really loved the first moments with Victor and Vanessa, which really surprised me. They were really very charming (before she turned of course). 

 

And Ethan is growing very quickly on me. Is he a former exorcist? Or just a former priest? Josh was awesome tonight. 

 

So sad that we're near the end, though! 

[JayKay]

I am super intrigued by Sembene's suggestion that he is responsible for Malcolm. I wonder what that's about. And considering that it's alluded to that Malcolm raped his way across Africa... what could Sembene possibly owe Malcolm? Maybe he's going to put Malcolm down after it's all over like Vanessa plans to do to Mina. All of these characters are fascinated by each other - and I'm willing to bet that Sembene has a hell of a story.

 

I think Ethan teaching Victor to shoot was my favorite scene. I love the creepy stuff, but some levity can mean the difference between dark vs. dreary. Really, Ethan was the MVP of the episode for me. I have no idea what the hell the ending was about with Ethan suddenly revealing that he knew how to perform Roman Catholic exorcisms in Latin, but okay. Someone who knows more of the intricacies of the Victorian age throw out some ideas about what his deal is, because I'm stumped.

 

I knew that the demon thing was pretending to be Ethan about four seconds before Vanessa, and somehow I was screaming at the real Ethan to shoot her later because of how genuine the connection between them was when she asked "him" to kill her. How screwed up is that? I wonder if the thing possessing Vanessa even knew about Ethan's secret skill. It seems to know so much about everyone else... Has it ever spit Ethan's most shameful memories back at him?

...it bothers me that with each episode, Chandler is built up more and more as this Ultimate Hero (he's a sharpshooter, he has depth, he's a gentleman, he's running from a sordid past, ooh, now he's an Exorcist!) all the while getting more and more judgmental of everyone but his beloved Brona and his adored Ivy. Meanwhile Sir Malcolm is just universally despised by everyone, including those he takes into his confidence (like Frankenstein), and when he tries to show kindness or growth, it's shunted aside.

That's an interesting observation. I was going to say that it's suspicious that Ethan seems so valiant, but we know very little about him. We learn increasingly awful things about Malcolm, yet it seems to weigh heavy on him. I also love how Malcolm resents Ethan's mysterious past now that some of his dirty laundry has been aired.

 

And it says so much that Malcolm attacks Victor (whom he'd once claimed reminded him of Peter) in the same episode that he admits how selfish he is and how he failed his son. A few times Malcolm's just stared off into nothing in silence, like he's paralyzed by the past and the present at once. I do like what it says about him even though I'm not quite sure what that is? He's actually a vile human being, but absolutely a human being. I wonder if he wonders if he really even cares about Mina or he just can't survive the possibility that he doesn't love anything but himself.

[rozen]

Huh, considering he was ready to dice Sir Malcom for not getting Vanessa a priest earlier, I'm assuming Chandler doing the exorcism himself has some Deep Shit implications. Or else he's a super big hypocrite. 

 

I almost thought Victor was going to invite Caliban in to meet his future 'bride', then lock the door and see who comes out with more pieces intact. Possessed Vanessa certainly seemed to be capable of going a few rounds with him. Eva Green is chewing the scenery like a boss, I was on edge every time anyone tried to have a conversation with her. 

 

I have zero pity for Sir Malcom. It was disgusting how he tried to bully Vanessa into looking for Mina while she fights what he thinks is the Devil himself.  Even from a utilitarian standpoint, alienating the woman who is posited to be the mother of evil, and betraying her trust after she's put her life in your hands...is really really stupid. Her sanity has much larger implications than the rescue of your dumb daughter. Willing to leave son to die to name a mountain, willing to bring on the apocalypse to find the daughter. Overcompensate much?

[Epeolatrix]

St Jude, on whom Ethan called during his exorcism / abjuration, was a good choice. He's not just the patron saint of lost causes, he was also known to be a healer and an exorcist. I'm still leaning more toward the idea that this was an abjuration because he called on St Jude over and over with the same prayer, instead of the full Rituale Romanum that we know from other movies. Abjurations normally just force the demon from the presence of the faithful for a short time, though, so this might not be over yet.

 

NB: I've been reading a lot lately about the use of religion -- Catholicism, in particular --  in fantasy and horror stories, so my theorizing is based on that more than on anything. I accept the fact that there might be flaws in my understanding of the theology at work. :-)

[HunterHunted]

St Jude, on whom Ethan called during his exorcism / abjuration, was a good choice. He's not just the patron saint of lost causes, he was also known to be a healer and an exorcist. I'm still leaning more toward the idea that this was an abjuration because he called on St Jude over and over with the same prayer, instead of the full Rituale Romanum that we know from other movies. Abjurations normally just force the demon from the presence of the faithful for a short time, though, so this might not be over yet.

NB: I've been reading a lot lately about the use of religion -- Catholicism, in particular -- in fantasy and horror stories, so my theorizing is based on that more than on anything. I accept the fact that there might be flaws in my understanding of the theology at work. :-)

Thanks for the explanation. I was going to say something similar. He kept repeating the same phrase over and over again. Additionally as a reasonably well educated young man, Ethan would have known Latin and Greek.

[Bec]

What the hell did I just watch?

 

When Ethan was doing the exorcism(?), I was like how does he know how to do that? And why didn't he just do that earlier? (Oh, okay, it was an abjuration? Interesting...)

 

So is Ethan a werewolf or the devil or a secret exorcist devil werewolf?

Exactly. Hee! He did threaten to rip Sir Malcolm's throat out, so maybe werewolf is still in the mix, because who threatens to rip people's throats out? Even Victor had a look like "Well that was weird".

 

Victor doing drugs for "pain" made me roll my eyes at his "dainty man pain" (as someone here put it so succinctly in an earlier episode thread). Not his finest hour, though I did laugh when he called the priest a "ridiculous man".

 

Also, Ethan teaching Victor to shoot was my favorite part of the episode.

 

Love the idea of locking Caliban in a room with demon-possessed Vanessa and going "here's your bride!" Ah, what could have been. When it looked like Ethan was about to shoot Vanessa, I briefly wondered if she would be the bride.

 

Has it ever spit Ethan's most shameful memories back at him?

Yes, it threatened to tell Brona he shagged Dorian Gray.

[goodogcarl]

This finale had better be four hours long.

[I-Kare]

You all are probably right about Ethan: he's educated so he would logically know Latin and it was more of an abjuration. I do think it would be interesting, though, if he was a defrocked priest turned cowboy who hesitated to do any sort of ritual himself and wanted a priest because of the defrocking. 

[Door]

What a fantastic episode! I loved how Father Matthew seemed to represent the bureaucracy of faith - worrying more about the fine print and less about the soul of a very obviously imperiled person. Interesting. 

[islandgal]

What a great episode and what wonderful observations everyone has. 

 

My simple ass came away with one tidbit that left me breathless all night: Ethan bottomed for Dorian. Mercy (fans myself).

 

I am disturbed by how hot I am finding Josh Hartnett. 

 

I actually find Brona and Ethan sweet and cute. The hooker with a heart of gold trope is making the eyes roll out of my head, but I love seeing them together. I did wonder if Ethan was there for a straight week because who the hell was looking out for Brona in the meantime. She probably hacked up a lung lying in that fleabag motel.

Edited June 23, 2014 by islandgal

[blixie]

 

Fucking Caliban. He's like the Robert John Bardo of Victorian England. 

 

Ha. Right?

 

 

what could Sembene possibly owe Malcolm?

 

Well specifically Sambene was alluding to the idea that if you save a person's life you are then responsible for that persons life going forward, given what a douchenozzle Malcolm is I can see Sambene making his apologies to the world for saving such an asshole. I still think they raised what ever evil is now running around Malcolm's life making hay in Africa together. I can't remember if in Vanessa's flash back if Sambene was around *before* Peter died in Africa.

 

 

St Jude, on whom Ethan called during his exorcism / abjuration, was a good choice.

 

Thanks, I was confused by it playing out much like an exorcism without hearing/seeing the words the Power of Christ compels you. Hee. They had Vanessa say twice to him (although only once to real Ethan) that he didn't know what it was like to have an animal inside him scratching/clawing to get out. I feel like maybe he knew the words/ritual because he has already lived through it, and it didn't work for him because being a werewolf is not demonic possession, but he/his family may have initially interpreted it as such.

 

Man no one can say Eva Green does leave every bit of it out on the stage yo. After shooting wrapped I hope she spent a week sunning in the south of France and having cocktails and spa treatments.

[teddysmom]

If Eva Green doesn't get an Emmy nomination,  (and win) there is no justice.  

 

Good catch that maybe Sir Malcolm is guilty of somehow bringing this Egyptian demon god back to England and the subsequent possessions of Vanessa and Mina. 

 

FYI - if you ever wake up around 5 am and are having breakfast, kinda woozy, watching this episode of Penny D will wake you the fuck up in a hurry.  it's been almost 6 hours and I still have the adrenaline rushing thru me from this episode.  

 

What the fuck meter officially broke on this one. 

[emma675]

Good grief, what the hell was that?!? I loved it, but it was very disturbing and unsettling and weird. I did not sleep well last night and I blame this episode.

 

Eva Green is a boss. I'll bet she was just physically and mentally worn out after shooting this episode. Girl does not hold back.

 

So Ethan is a werewolf priest now? That part left me totally confused--if he was able, all this time, to get rid of Vanessa's demon why did he keep insisting on a priest and why did he wait so long to do it? I swear, someone at some point said it had been a week since it all started, so it was a pretty long time. And who was taking care of lung-hacker Brona during that time?

 

Frankenstein makes me roll my eyes 99% of the time but I cracked up at him practically spitting at that priest.

 

And I actually started feeling sorry for Sir Malcolm. Yes, he's a gigantic, selfish, brutish ass, but everyone was piling on him so much that I came back around to feeling sorry for him.

 

It's going to take me a while to process this one.

[sjohnson]

Very intense, albeit hopelessly confused. Does Ives have any powers on her own or are they strictly the product of demonic possession? Does the demon possess her or does he just rent? Is he only there when Ives commits sexual sins, opening the doorway? Does he even exist separately from her perverse sexualtiy? (Cutting someone during sex counts as perverse for me, sorry to be close-minded.) Is it impossible to dispose of him entirely because he's just a part of Ives? Does he only go away when Ives feels love instead of lust? 

 

On a more mundane level, aside from the likelihood that a young man with some education even in the US would likely be familiar with Latin, I suspected that Ethan was just repeating what was written on the St. Jude medal Brona gave him. I thought at the time that it only worked because Ethan had genuine affection for her. But I don't have the Latin to know.

 

Frankenstein's contempt for the priest would be entirely justified save for the fact that he's seen the supernatural really exists. The show seemed to have thought the priest was officious but he had no reason to take their word for it. I thought the actor played it as suspicious they were abusing the woman. But he didn't really have much time to assess anything for himself, did he? 

 

It's remarkable how much they ignore anything said or done by Chandler. Or in this episode, anything said about him. Is it dismissal of Hartnett or something about Ethan's character? They don't even ask him, much less Ives, about Gray, even though what happened with him was relevant to Ives' collapse! By the way, Ethan's threat may be foreshadowing the death of Sir Malcolm I think. 

 

So far as the menace of an Amonet/Amun-Ra end of the world in Egyptian vampire heaven goes, this is the only episode that really counts. All we needed from the previous five episodes was the Ives' seance and Sir Ferdinand pulling the premise and the theory that Ives was Amonet from his ass. Plotwise, pretty much everything else is filler in the struggle against the Big Bad. 

 

It's very perplexing. If Hartnett isn't doing good acting, then the show is a complete mess. But how can anyone say Hartnett---Josh Hartnett!---is doing good acting. There's a reason all the others are real actors, i.e., English. (Yes, joking.)

 

PS The big build up of Ethan's niceness is ironic contrast to his true nature, which is someone who literally rips up women, just because, even little girls. That's so very Not Nice. I think Fenton's line, "So many monsters," was a quote from the show's bible. They're all monsters. (Which is why I keep wondering about the "demon.") Sir Malcolm is a rather plebeian, mundane human-type "monster," which may not be sexy enough for him to survive til second season. Ives' mentioning the moon was suggestive. 

Edited June 23, 2014 by sjohnson

[TiffanyNichelle]

I am so confused by Ethan. When he made the comment about ripping out Sir Malcolm's throat I thought for sure that was a shaded reference to being a werewolf. And after all that talk of waiting to bring in a priest to perform an exorcism, Ethan can just do one himself? What the heck, is this Victorian Supernatural? LOL.

 

So is Ethan a lapsed priest and the "Father" that keeps trying to get him to come home another priest?

 

I could have done without Caliban lurking outside of the house. If he wasn't going to try to bust into the house or attack the priest on his way in, I didn't care.

 

Dorian Gray not popping over or sending a note to see what's up with Vanessa after she ran out of his bed a week ago was a weird dropped storyline. But we did get conformation about what went down between Ethan and Dorian. It's interesting the big secrets that possessed Vanessa reveals mostly deal with sex. I kept waiting for her to mention Caliban to Victor or let us know what Ethan's other big secret was.

[Tara Ariano]

I wrote this very silly post comparing THIS bottle episode to another beloved one from our shared cultural past!

[BuddhaBelly]

 

Victor doing drugs for "pain" made me roll my eyes at his "dainty man pain" (as someone here put it so succinctly in an earlier episode thread). Not his finest hour, though I did laugh when he called the priest a "ridiculous man".

 

I was really expecting him to answer 'life' because that's how emo he is. I did give him a marginal pass when he mentioned that getting narcotics as a child developed the habit. That made more sense.

 

 

t's remarkable how much they ignore anything said or done by Chandler. Or in this episode, anything said about him. Is it dismissal of Hartnett or something about Ethan's character? They don't even ask him, much less Ives, about Gray, even though what happened with him was relevant to Ives' collapse! By the way, Ethan's threat may be foreshadowing the death of Sir Malcolm I think.

 

I don't see this at all, at least not in respect to it being a dismissal of Josh who I think is going a great job. This was an episode of secrets and no one confronted each other on their sexual secrets. I mean, Victor being a virgin can't have been a surprise but no one mentioned Sir Malcom raping his way through Africa so why mention Ethan's trip to homosexual side.

 

What would have been the purpose of asking Dorian? Sir Malcom said it was something that has happened before so it wasn't totally new to him and he knew to keep her alive so she could fight. The intensity was the only thing that changed.

 

There has to be more to Ethan doing the prayer. His demeanour changed, there was a new intensity in his eyes. He behaved like he know what the hell he was doing. If he knew what to do why he did he wait so long?

 

I wish the season was 13 episodes. It would have been great to see the development of Ethan's relationship with Vanessa. They seem really close. It wasn't a mistake that the demon took Ethan's face this time. It seems to mimic the face of men she feels closest to at the time. I wonder why not Dorian?

[Door]

It's also interesting that the demon mostly tells sexual secrets during a time of rampant sexual oppression, though our main characters are somewhat enlightened comparatively.

[Kat]

God, this show. Every week it continues to surprise and thrill me. This was an excellent episode.

 

My simple ass came away with one tidbit that left me breathless all night: Ethan bottomed for Dorian. Mercy (fans myself).

Holy crap! I wanted all time to stop to be able to process this tidbit of information. And I was shaking my fist at the tv because we didn't get to see this intimacy. Maybe we'll be blessed with a flashback of the coupling?

 

My only quibble with this episode was that I wished they had described/showed the amount of time passing better. This mess with Vanessa took place over a couple of weeks right? This piece just fell flat for me. But this is a very small complaint for an overall amazing hour of television.

[teddysmom]

I wonder why not Dorian?

 

 

He already sold his soul in return for the painting. 

[Epeolatrix]

I suspected that Ethan was just repeating what was written on the St. Jude medal Brona gave him.

Saint medals of that size usually just have the words "Pray for us" on the back. There are a lot of standard St Jude prayers, though, so my own guess is that he was intimately familiar with the particular one he used; he was able to repeat it so fluently and quickly. Sadly, I don't speak Latin and the only words I understood involved asking the saint to pray for her and that's pretty standard verbiage. I'm still looking, though, because now it's a Thing and I want to find out more. :-D

 

If he knew what to do why he did he wait so long?

Once he understood it was possession and not madness, I think he was hoping they'd bring in a professional instead of needing him to MacGyver up a temporary divine fix.

 

Edited to add: He doesn't have to have been a priest! It turns out, there are exorcism prayers that can be used by the faithful who aren't actual clergy. [search for "laity exorcism"] Apparently abjuration in this sense is a term used mostly by people who do occult magic. (I blame my background in role-playing games that I even learned it.) Granted, he still could be / could have been some sort of clergy, but I like the idea that anyone with faith could become an effective demon hunter.

Edited June 23, 2014 by WertherEffekt

[BuddhaBelly]

He already sold his soul in return for the painting. 

 

I don't understand. What does that have to do witht he Demon taking his face?

[blixie]

I think the Demon used the face of people/men Vanessa trusted, she's attracted to Dorian, but I doubt she trusts him, that could be her supernatural spidey sense picking up on his lack of soul, or it could just be that he's sly, smirky, and mysterious.

[TexasGal]

Wading in the shallow pool over here - but I have two things to say.  The size of Josh Hartnett's hand when the demon Chandler put it on Vanessa's chest.  Ahem.

 

Also, I am finding myself strangely attracted to Victor.  I cannot explain it.  Maybe it's the pretty eyes.

[ganesh]

My simple ass came away with one tidbit that left me breathless all night: Ethan bottomed for Dorian. Mercy (fans myself).

*This* was the real shocker of the episode. I'm stunned!

 

That's an interesting observation. I was going to say that it's suspicious that Ethan seems so valiant, but we know very little about him.

 

I think he's overcompensating on the valiant. We know a 'marshal was paid off' back in America, so he committed a legit crime of some sort. I think he's trying to make up for it.

 

Victor doing drugs for "pain" made me roll my eyes at his "dainty man pain" (as someone here put it so succinctly in an earlier episode thread). Not his finest hour, though I did laugh when he called the priest a "ridiculous man".

I was really expecting him to answer 'life' because that's how emo he is.

I worked 'dainty' into *2* conversations this week. Hilarity ensued. Highly recommended. I think his dainty man pain stems from the virginity; i.e., dude needs to get laid and get over himself. 

 

I can't remember if in Vanessa's flash back if Sambene was around *before* Peter died in Africa.

I do not think he was. I don't think they'd make that a blink or you'll miss it scene. It's been speculated for a while, but it seems likely that Malcolm "brought something back from Africa," and Sam is wrapped up in that. 

 

If he knew what to do why he did he wait so long?

 

Maybe he didn't think it would work. If he told the others and it didn't work, then he'd look like and idiot. Or, he was hoping they were going to bring in a professional. Maybe he wanted to hold off to see if she could deal with it herself and they finally reached the point where it was now or nothing. I think maybe there's a 'cost'. Or maybe the longer Vanessa held on, the weaker the demon got, so he had to wait.

 

I wish I could have heard the conversation between Eva Green and her agent about the show. 

 

Also, next week, if they show the portrait and Vanessa is in it, that's all me. 

[msbeesknees]

I love everything about this show but God help me I cannot make it through a Victor scene without scrutinizing his tiny fringe hairdo nor can I last a Dorian scene without anguishing over his shaggy curtain hair. This is the cross I must bear. That is all. Good day!

[Irishmaple]

Eva Green owned this episode from start to finish.  It'll be the most perverse Emmy reel in television history but she completely deserves it.  If there has to be demons then I need a demon on the ceiling and this one was probably creepier than Fenton climbing the stairs (my previous nightmare fuel champion)  I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the make-up room with Eva Green and the technicians seeing how wrecked they can make a beautiful woman look.  Vanessa looked like death.  All the kudos to Eva Green; she was freaking amazing.  I wondered if Victor was going invite Caliban inside so he could see what a real demon looked like.  I think Vanessa in her full satanic glory could have scared the Monster himself.

 

Ethan was pretty badass with the banishing too.  I agree that it wasn't a full exorcism because he lacked the props and the prayers.  All he had was an heirloom medal filled with the belief of a generation or so of superstitious Catholics (and Irish Catholicism is fairly rife with superstitions, at least where I grew up)  St. Jude is the patron of lost causes and Vanessa was all but dead, Ethan is haunted by his own secrets, and the former owner of the medal is pretty lost herself.  I'd risk that medal against any number of demons!  The demon inside Vanessa seems Satanic in nature, a part of the Judeo-Christian theology and doesn't really tie into the Egyptology aspect which is a completely different belief system.  I'm curious to see how they're going to tie that together.

 

I can't believe next week is the finale and I'll be out of town because of work.  Damn work, always getting in the way! 

[ganesh]

 

he demon inside Vanessa seems Satanic in nature, a part of the Judeo-Christian theology and doesn't really tie into the Egyptology aspect which is a completely different belief system.

Not necessarily. Vanessa is 'naming' him by her own catholic upbringing, but he doesn't say, 'yes I am Lucifer.' He also specifically said he wants her give birth to the end of the world to rule with him. Usually on tv anything 'demonic' or 'religious' usually = western so we tend to view things in that prism. 

[spaceghostess]

I agree with everyone who's recognized Eva Green as just the absolute shit in this. She deserves every award possible, but don't the Emmys traditionally ignore genre (or what the powers-that-be classify as "genre") programs? I was also really impressed with Josh Hartnett's performance in all of his scenes. Chalk me up as another one who never found him hot . . . until this show.

 

Along the lines of "Ethan as former priest," does anyone else think he may have worked at a mission school: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schools* (at least some percentage of which were Catholic-run) in some capacity? Either that, or maybe he had some part in transporting children to these places? He gave a pretty good description of that whole horrible situation in his conversation with Victor. Then again, he didn't seem guilt-ridden the way a true participant would be; he came off more as an observer. I don't know; I just keep coming back to that idea for some reason.

 

The last shot of Ethan walking out of the house in silhouette reminded me of the shot in The Exorcist (also used on the movie poster) of the priest standing out on the street before he goes into the house. And now, thinking about it as I sit out on my porch swing in broad daylight, I've creeped myself right the hell out.

 

*Edited to add unsophisticated link because I can't figure out how to embed text in link here. Sorry about that!

 

 

Edited June 24, 2014 by spaceghostess

[Shadowlass]

Not necessarily. Vanessa is 'naming' him by her own catholic upbringing, but he doesn't say, 'yes I am Lucifer.' He also specifically said he wants her give birth to the end of the world to rule with him. Usually on tv anything 'demonic' or 'religious' usually = western so we tend to view things in that prism. 

 

He didn't actually say "Yes, I am Lucifer," but he did say he was cast out of heaven. Like Lucifer. Which could be from a non-Western heaven, but I wonder if the Penny Dreadful universe contains multiple sets of deities, like American Gods.

[ganesh]

Does Egypt religion have a heaven?

[iMonrey]

I just feel like they're throwing everything and the kitchen sink at this show. We've got Frankenstein and his monster (two of them, no less), we've got Nosferatu, Dorian Gray, a little bit of Phantom of the Opera, Jack the Ripper, possibly the Wolf Man, and this episode we got The Exorcist. I don't see any way in hell they can just wrap this story up in one more episode, which means they had no end-game in mind for a show that had no guarantee of a second season.

 

To be generous, the show certainly honors the spirit of the original "penny dreadfuls" of the 19th century, which were meant to be exploitative and sensationalist, not great literature. It's pure shock value but I feel it lacks cohesion and follow-through. For example, what the hell did they do about all those spiders that started crawling out from under the Tarot cards? Stomp around on them until they were all dead? Call an exterminator? Or did they just disappear? There are too many scenes like this that are sort of thrown at us then have no resolution.

 

I also feel like they are focusing too much on Vanessa because they know what they have in Eva Greene, and while her performance is certainly riveting I feel like a lot of the other characters are getting the short shrift from all the Vanessa-centric episodes - three so far out of seven. It's like we know everything there is to know about this character while the others are still pretty much enigmas.

 

 

I almost thought Victor was going to invite Caliban in to meet his future 'bride', then lock the door and see who comes out with more pieces intact.

 

That would have been a good idea, actually. 

 

 

Does Egypt religion have a heaven?

 

Egyptian mythology, like Greek mythology, has an afterlife, but there is no distinction between where "good" people and "bad" people go. They all wind up in the same place, though some may be better off than others.

Edited June 24, 2014 by iMonrey

[BuddhaBelly]

I was reading a comment on another site which said that during one of the scenes where Ethan and Vanessa are talking a wolf's head is seen behind him. Now I have to go back and watch.

 

 

Does Egypt religion have a heaven?

 

There is the realm of Osiris but I can never remember which kingdom that's attached to, New or Old...not that it matters in the scheme of this show at the moment.

 

 

I don't see any way in hell they can just wrap this story up in one more episode, which means they had no end-game in mind for a show that had no guarantee of a second season.

 

The show got a second season and an episode order increase several weeks ago.

 

Edited June 24, 2014 by BuddhaBelly

[Neurochick]

 

St Jude, on whom Ethan called during his exorcism / abjuration, was a good choice. He's not just the patron saint of lost causes, he was also known to be a healer and an exorcist. I'm still leaning more toward the idea that this was an abjuration because he called on St Jude over and over with the same prayer, instead of the full Rituale Romanum that we know from other movies. Abjurations normally just force the demon from the presence of the faithful for a short time, though, so this might not be over yet.

Yes, Ethan was basically calling on St. Jude to help him, over and over again.  Brona gave him the St. Jude medal and that's why when he was holding the gun on Vanessa, he remembered the medal and probably thought, "why not?" Ethan kept holding the medal and it probably hit him exactly what the medal was for.  It wasn't an exorcism, but Ethan probably just gave it a try.  As for him knowing Latin, the Catholic mass was conducted in Latin in the 19th century, so if you went to Catholic Mass enough times, you probably picked up some Latin. 

 

I loved when Demon/Vanessa asked Ethan, "did you fuck him, or did he fuck you?"  Demon Vanessa also told Ethan that Brona had been with Dorian as well.  Damn, maybe everybody will get a chance with Dorian.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Neurochick

[Bec]

The demon inside Vanessa seems Satanic in nature, a part of the Judeo-Christian theology and doesn't really tie into the Egyptology aspect

Egypt is part of the region where biblical stories comes from, so it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to say this being from ancient Egyptian mythology is known as Satan or one of his minions to Christians. Same being, many names. That kind of deal.

 

The last shot of Ethan walking out of the house in silhouette reminded me of the shot in The Exorcist

 

Duuude… I thought the same thing. I was like "is this an homage to the Exorcist?"

 

Along the lines of "Ethan as former priest," does anyone else think he may have worked at a mission school

 

I was wondering if Ethan was one of the children sent to mission school. Maybe he is part Native American. Which would mean he fit in neither world since birth.

 

I am finding myself strangely attracted to Victor.  I cannot explain it.  Maybe it's the pretty eyes.

 

He does have strikingly pretty eyes (even with the crazy dark circles the makeup department put under those eyes). I take some hotness points off for his emo-ness, but add some points on for his snark.

 

I think his dainty man pain stems from the virginity; i.e., dude needs to get laid and get over himself.

 

I really don't think that would help. Especially not as long as Caliban is still around to kill whoever he gets close to. (Which would just bring us back to more angst. Hee.)

 

If anything, the way he seems so alone in the world makes him come off less obnoxious than original recipe Dr. Frankenstein, who had a girlfriend (yet was still full of himself).

 

The whole "obsession with raising the dead" thing feels more understandable when everyone he has ever loved is dead and he is dead to his remaining family. This makes him more of an angsty-pants tortured soul than the original doctor, but I still prefer this version. Granted, I might not like him so much if not for the way he brings the snark.

 

I'm not sure it makes sense to make him a drug addict. Okay, I don't know anything about morphine addiction, but is having the steady hands of a surgeon possible with this kind of addiction? And I would have thought he's too consumed by his research to have any room left to be addicted to anything else. Is the ability to concentrate super hard while studying one of the side effects? Because I wouldn't have thought so.

 

He did mention getting cocaine as a child for asthma, so it's not like he only started shooting up because of the horrible things that have happened recently, he's been doing this for a long time. So in the episode where Van Helsing commented on how steady his hands are… he was supposed to be doing morphine then, too, right?

[TexasGal]

I was reading a comment on another site which said that during one of the scenes where Ethan and Vanessa are talking a wolf's head is seen behind him. Now I have to go back and watch.

 

I forgot about this!  There was a scene where there is a wolf behind Ethan - at first I thought it was a mirror but it must have been a painting.  Then they flashed to the other men waiting in various rooms of the house, but I didn't notice any connection between them and the paintings hanging behind them.

[Morrigan2575]

The last 3 episodes have been great but I admit to being utterly confused by Ethan doing an exorcism or abjuration. I was almost ready to give up on this show after the first few episodes but now I'm eagerly awaiting the finale.

[ganesh]

Damn, maybe everybody will get a chance with Dorian.

I would love for this to be a running joke in background.

 

I really don't think that would help. Especially not as long as Caliban is still around to kill whoever he gets close to. (Which would just bring us back to more angst. Hee.)

 

The more I think about it, Victor would probably be the type of guy who thinks he's in 'lurve' now that he's had sex.

 

I'm hoping that whatever demonology we are dealing with, that it's older than christianity. That's usually the norm for tv-religion, as if demons didn't exist until the bible said so. And Egypt is very "Victorian."

[RedheadZombie]

I wasn't crazy about the first four episodes, but the show has really sucked me in, and this episode was brilliant.  After watching Vanessa being so isolated and lonely, it was heartwarming to see those four men devoted to caring for her. Malcolm has ulterior motives, but obviously cares for her. Ethan was so tender and kind to Vanessa, I actually teared up.  Then they ruined the scene by blending it into a demonic hallucination.

 

I thought Ethan was going to be the most boring character, and I feared Josh Hartnett may be the weakest actor.  But I now think he's killing it.  He does this type of character very well.  He's bringing to mind the character he played in 30 Days of Night.  I hope this revitalizes his career, because he was supposed to be the next big thing fifteen or so years ago.  He made some poor choices in roles, and kind of disappeared for a while.

 

I loved all of the male bonding that happened.  Victor is really growing on me, and I really thought he would confide in Ethan, and ask him to kill Caliban.  It sounds like Victor's doctors started him on the road to addiction when he was a child.  I wonder why he's a virgin? I remember asking this about Peter.  Is he awkward around women, asexual, gay?

 

Additionally as a reasonably well educated young man, Ethan would have known Latin and Greek.

 

 

That may be true of young wealthy men in England, but I think it would be unlikely for an average man in southwest America.  When he started the ritual, at first I thought he was going to be speaking Arabic, and I thought - not this Egyptian crap again.  Then it clicked.  Whatever it was about, Ethan obviously didn't want to do it, but felt compelled to.

 

So Ethan is a werewolf priest now? That part left me totally confused--if he was able, all this time, to get rid of Vanessa's demon why did he keep insisting on a priest and why did he wait so long to do it? I swear, someone at some point said it had been a week since it all started, so it was a pretty long time. And who was taking care of lung-hacker Brona during that time?

 

 

Pure speculation - For an exorcism (or whatever it was) to work, you must be a true believer.  Maybe Ethan had lost that faith and regained it in that moment he was about to kill her.

 

It wasn't a mistake that the demon took Ethan's face this time. It seems to mimic the face of men she feels closest to at the time. I wonder why not Dorian?

 

 

And it was interesting that the demon wearing Ethan's face didn't come to her in a sexual manner, but on a deep emotional level.

 

I agree with everyone who's recognized Eva Green as just the absolute shit in this. She deserves every award possible, but don't the Emmys traditionally ignore genre (or what the powers-that-be classify as "genre") programs?

 

 

Jessica Lange won an Emmy, Golden Globe, and SAG for American Horror Story.

 

I've never watched the opening credits, I just FF through them.  For some reason I watched this time.  I know everyone has figured out that Ethan is a werewolf, but they actually show a wolf baring it's teeth before a shot of Ethan.  Victor gets bloody hands with scalpel, Sembene gets something being cut open, and Caliban gets a fly caught in a spider web, Malcolm gets a snake, and Vanessa gets a spider. 

 

Most awesome line of the episode came from Ethan. "You want a daughter?  There she is."

[anonymous360]

I worked 'dainty' into *2* conversations this week. Hilarity ensued. Highly recommended. I think his dainty man pain stems from the virginity; i.e., dude needs to get laid and get over himself. 

 

Maybe Dorian could help with that ;) hehe!

[spaceghostess]

 

Jessica Lange won an Emmy, Golden Globe, and SAG for American Horror Story.

 

Don't know why I didn't know that, but it's great! Hopefully, Lang's awards for horror will open the door for Green.

[Blue Girl]

Arrgh. While I've really enjoyed almost all the Penny Dreadful episodes so far, I'm gonna have to be the odd (wo)man out and say I am just not that into the Vanessa possession storylines, especially when they dominate the whole episode and are so close together. When I saw where this episode was headed, my sentiment could pretty much be summed up by Ethan's, "Oh, fuck me." This is the second to the last episode and I felt like the plot didn't move forward very much (or at all).  That said, I'm glad to see so many people did enjoy it, because it says TPTB are doing something right.

 

Er, OK, confession: I may have FF through all of Vanessa's scenes this episode except for the first one with Victor and the last one with Ethan.  Would anyone be so kind as to give me the CliffsNotes version of anything important to the plot that her rantings revealed?  Other than Ethan is apparently a bottom, because I already gathered that from your posts.

[blixie]

 

I wonder why he's a virgin? I remember asking this about Peter.  Is he awkward around women, asexual, gay?

 

I actually was wondering if this would have been super unusual for an young unmarried man in Victorian England. I mean I know, hookers and prostitutes galore, and men's sexuality isn't as policed, but I'd assume male virginity into the late 20's (at least those from high society which Victor was originally) wasn't as huge an anomaly as it is today so I was kind of surprised the demon thought it was stooging him so hard. I think the sex/death metaphor is pretty clear that Victor funnels all of his sexual/romantic feeling into his work on reanimating the dead, as was revealed by his relationship with Proteus v. Caliban, that's he's fixated on creating a *man* could indicate he's gay, but I'm guessing everyone is pretty fluid on this show, above and beyond Graysexuals.

 

 

Jessica Lange won an Emmy, Golden Globe, and SAG for American Horror Story.

 

Yes, but she's also Jessica Lange, I doubt this is indicator of genre shows breaking through. I was heartened by Tatiana Maslany getting the Critics Choice, but they aren't a real bellweather for the mainstream of Awards. I think Eva WILL be nominated next year, hopefully in the mini-series slot which obviously works to the advantage of Lange.

[BuddhaBelly]

 

As for him knowing Latin, the Catholic mass was conducted in Latin in the 19th century, so if you went to Catholic Mass enough times, you probably picked up some Latin.

 

What was the population of wealthy Catholics in the South? Ethan is a Southern boy, isn't he or is that an affectation? If he came from a wealthy family, I can see him getting a traditional/classical education full of Latin and private tutors. 

 

 

I actually was wondering if this would have been super unusual for an young unmarried man in Victorian England. I mean I know, hookers and prostitutes galore, and men's sexuality isn't as policed, but I'd assume male virginity into the late 20's (at least those from high society which Victor was originally) wasn't as huge an anomaly as it is today so I was kind of surprised the demon thought it was stooging him so hard.

 

If Peter had friends, it would be an anomaly. My impression has always been that men have had free range in terms how they got their 'fix' during that time as long as they were relatively discreet. And, just like Sir Malcolm encouraging Peter to rape the natives as they trekked through Africa, it would be expected that Victor's male friends would find him weird if he was still a virgin. 

[ganesh]

I didn't get the impression that Victor had friends as a kid. I can buy asexual though.

[MissL]

 

Yes, but she's also Jessica Lange, I doubt this is indicator of genre shows breaking through. I was heartened by Tatiana Maslany getting the Critics Choice, but they aren't a real bellweather for the mainstream of Awards. I think Eva WILL be nominated next year, hopefully in the mini-series slot which obviously works to the advantage of Lange.

That's exactly what I was going to say! Jessica Lange won because she was good but she was also...Jessica Lange.  I'm sorry I know Eva knocked it out of the park with the possession but for my money Tatiana deserves it ALL for being able to create multiple completely distinct characters with fully fleshed out mannerisms and personalities.  JMHO though.