S05.E22: Legacy

[Trini]

*Season Finale*
 

Quote

Barry faces off with his oldest, and most formidable nemesis, Reverse Flash.

Gregory Smith directed the episode with story by Lauren Certo and teleplay by Todd Helbing & Eric Wallace.

Airdate: 5/14/2019

Edited May 13, 2019 by Trini

[SimoneS]

Great finale! The timeline for the Crisis changed! Nora gets erased! Sherloque hits the road. Joe is the new Captain of the CCPD. David admits that he knows that Barry is the Flash! Bwah! I loved that. I really hope we still get to see David next season. Ralph looked at Sue's file, Dearborn. The only horrible part was Cisco taking the cure.

I really liked that they used Nora's rewind ability to stop Thawne and save the guards. I thought this ability might be useful and they used it at the perfect moment.

I don't understand why Barry can't easily beat Thawne. He should be able to. I did enjoy the time sphere smashing into Thawne, but what was up with all that eyeliner on him?

Goodbye, evil adult Grace. I liked Grace as Cicada. Too bad they didn't introduce her sooner.

Edited May 15, 2019 by SimoneS

[Jediknight]

Once Cicada was taken care of, the episode got really freaking good, really freaking fast.

The best episode of the season.  Those last 30 minutes, holy hell.  Wellsobard is the best Wells, and the best damn villain in the Beeboverse.  Re-purposing the Cisco lines to be said about Nora, that was damn.

Singh revealed he knew, Adler didn't die, Killer Frost is happy, Ralph is back to being a detective (great to see after how he did this season), and Joe's the captain.  That felt like a series finale, till the Crisis tease.  Good move by them, they know that anything they'd set up would be secondary to Crisis, so just give us a happy ending and a Crisis tease.

[mxc90]

Reverse Flash always has a better handle on his powers but how doesn't he see the time ship coming through to hit him?

Lose Nora? Barry, just go back to the present and make a baby with Iris! Now you know how to get it right this time!

Some nice team work but after all that jumping around, they didn't put a dent in Reverse Flash.

Iris the more you feel sad about Nora, the more happy are the viewers she is gone!

See you at the next crisis Barry! 

Captain Singh don't boast too much about knowing the Flash, the city saw Barry with half his mask missing last season and he told a lot of people his identity. 

Bye Cisco! You will be missed!

No ending with Iris annoucing she's pregnant?

[mtlchick]

First Arrow, now Flash.  They both had some small bright spots in fairly frustrating seasons with the Big Bad being a Big Blah.

But once they were finally resolved, both had endings where I am just ugly crying.  I thought last night was bad.  This was even worse.

Well played CW.  The crossover is going to put us all through the ringer. 

Your move, Girl of Steel. 

[bettername2come]

I wanted more Crisis clues! I did like seeing the newspaper and the "see you next crisis," but Arrow gave us way more hints. 

I hate Cisco giving up his powers. He had to adjust to having them and whether or not he wanted, embracing it, and now he doesn't want it? That's not quality storytelling.

I hate Thawne. I love how Tom Cavanagh plays him. Tricking Barry and Nora into thinking they can trust him, getting Nora disappeared, the "I know what it's like to have a daughter" line, and apologizing to Cisco for killing him that time and then trying to take credit for Vibe. I hate him. I hate him so much. And he's the best villain this show's ever had and I enjoy hating him even when I am sick of him. Does that make sense?

Nora disappearing is karma for Sara Diggle, Barry. Can no one in this generation of heroes raise their daughter to adulthood?!

Just now, SimoneS said:

Goodbye, evil adult Grace. I liked Grace as Cicada. Too bad they didn't introduce her sooner.

Sarah Carter was seriously underutilized. 

[Lantern7]

*snff*

I'm guessing this season finale pales next to Arrow, because I think everyone is all cried out over the latter. We got a lot of endings, foreshadowing for one supporting character, and all of this season accomplishing . . . Barry's vanishing has been moved ahead of schedule. First of all: of course  it did. These are the Allens. At this point, the crew on the Waverider should have a collar around Barry's neck. Secondly: looks like we might not get ten seasons. That was teased in the very first episode. Given that Arrow will end at eight, this is more reasonable?

[ETA: I'm not sure if ten seasons was the initial goal. It's just that when the first episode aired in 2014, Future Headline was all "FLASH DISAPPEARS IN 2023!" There's where my assumption lies.]

CAPTAIN SINGH KNOWS BARRY IS THE FLASH!!!! "Hey, I'm a detective too!" Yeah friggin' right. One of the hundreds of thousands of Central Citizens in the know probably spilled the beans. After five years, it's about time. "So THAT'S why Allen couldn't bother to be at his sentencing last year! Wow, how can I be so dense?!?"

Nora goes out on a high point. I know, she was a childish pain, but she was a hero in the end. I'm thinking that if the final fight didn't finish her off, Barry and Iris would have done it by . . . not doing it. I just imagine Nora poofing out, everyone being perplexed, Sherloque solving the mystery . . . and Barry smacks himself in the head. "I KNEW I was forgetting something!!" Shit, we wouldn't HAVE to see the conception. They don't have to get as intense as *snfffff* Olicity.

So . . . Thrawne? Still out there? I really should just give up figuring out how he's still around after getting negated twice. Cavanaugh is fun, but maybe he's burnt out on all the damn Wellses. Of course, he might come back one last time. We'll be getting an even-numbered season, and we always get Harry with those.

We're gonna miss Cisco. I don't think there's any huge weak links with this team. Even Ralph has grown has a character, and he didn't even have to get get brutally messed up by the mirror gun. Plush giraffe? Sweet gift from Sherloque.

You think Chris Klein's voice got messed up from a season's worth of growling? While Thrawne proved to be the final villain, I reckon the Cicadas weren't too bad. They were OP, but nowhere near as bad as Thinker last season.

ETA: "I still don't get why that thug Mick Rory attended Barry's wedding. He was right next to me, I knew who he was . . . and I STILL didn't think Barry was the Flash. Idiot!!!"

Edited May 17, 2019 by Lantern7

[SimoneS]

Has there been an announcement that Carlos is leaving? I keep seeing people saying that he is. I thought Cisco took the cure, but is still part of Team Flash. 

[BeautifulFlower]

Iris isn't pregnant. THANK GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't get why Grace disappeared though.

The Cicada part were weak. The way they defeated her was lame, which fits the big bad to the tea.

Iris isn't pregnant. WOOHOOO

I wasn't sad Nora got erased. We all knew it was coming. I guess I prepared myself. Candice, Jessica, and Grant knocked it out the park in that scene.

I still hate Tom's whisper acting.

Singh knew all along. I remember somebody having a theory that he knew.

Not surprised Cisco took the cure. Him not wanting his powers anymore still came out of left field. Literally, in the beginning, he was upset he couldn't use them. Then 5x10 comes, and he hates them?

The date changed. No surprise either.

Poor Future Iris. She and Nora never made up and now she has no husband or her child.

2 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Has there been an announcement that Carlos is leaving? I keep seeing people saying that he is. I thought Cisco took the cure, but is still part of Team Flash. 

No nothing. His scene did sound like a goodbye. 

[tennisgurl]

I HATE that Cisco gave up his powers, hate hate hate. He could just stop being Vibe, why does he actually have to give up his powers? They are super useful, even just in day to day life, and he has long since learned how to control them, and this whole desire to get rid of his powers still seems super out of character. Cisco loved having powers, once he figured out how to use them, him giving them up now is just...why? Is he off the show now? Just reoccurring? Just going to be in the lab? Will he get them back when he realizes he was an idiot? I have hated this plot, and I hate how it ended. 

Anyway, other than that, I loved this episode. Nora actually showed some growth and admitted that she royally screwed up (basically right from the start) and accepted the consequences, and even though Nora was a real pain the last half of the season, her disappearing while hugging her parents did get me teary eyed. And that last bit really was heartbreaking, where she left the message to her parents. Really, as soon as Cicada was taken care of, the episode got super intense, and except for the Cisco part, hit all the right notes. It was exciting, sweet, funny, sad, and intense, with lots of good action and performances from everyone. 

Ralph stopping the knife from being destroyed was pretty badass! Ralph has come a long way as a character, its almost weird to think about how much he got on my nerves, I like him so much now, and the little giraffe from Sherloque was really nice, as was him saying that they already had a detective on the team so they didnt need him. 

Thawne is such a creepy motherfucker, but is is a great villain. Him apologizing to Cisco for killing him and taking responsibility for him becoming Vibe was super disturbing, as was him saying almost word for word the same thing about Nora that he said about Cisco when he killed him. Brrrrr. See you next Crisis, you evil piece of shit! 

Speaking of, looks like the next Crisis is on the way, sooner and sooner! Maybe thats when we find out that Iris is pregnant with Nora, and maybe not just Nora...

Captain Singh totally knew the whole time who Barry was! I so called it! He IS a detective too you know! It just continues my theory that everyone in the city knows who Barry is, everyone is just playing along with his "secret identity" to be polite. 

I liked Grace as Cicada, I wish she had been introduced sooner. Both the Graces are good actresses, and Cicada 2 brought so much rage and menace to the role. 

Seriously, between this and Arrow, its like every silly CW show is trying to make me cry...and succeeding. 

[SimoneS]

17 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Poor Future Iris. She and Nora never made up and now she has no husband or her child.

That version of future Iris no longer exists because the timeline has been changed. I am pretty confident that in the new timeline, Barry will disappear and re-appear. He and Iris will have their twins and raise them together.

17 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I don't get why Grace disappeared though.

I think that Grace disappeared because when they destroyed the dagger, the shard in her head that was stopping the cure from working was deactivated causing the cure to work, thereby erasing adult Grace.

Edited May 15, 2019 by SimoneS

[SimoneS]

3 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I HATE that Cisco gave up his powers, hate hate hate. He could just stop being Vibe, why does he actually have to give up his powers? They are super useful, even just in day to day life, and he has long since learned how to control them, and this whole desire to get rid of his powers still seems super out of character. Cisco loved having powers, once he figured out how to use them, him giving them up now is just...why? Is he off the show now? Just reoccurring? Just going to be in the lab? Will he get them back when he realizes he was an idiot? I have hated this plot, and I hate how it ended. 

It really was a horrible ending for Cisco if he really is gone. He was basically disappeared and marginalized for the whole season and then out of nowhere, he decides that he doesn't want to be a superhero any more and gives up his powers. 

3 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Ralph stopping the knife from being destroyed was pretty badass! Ralph has come a long way as a character, its almost weird to think about how much he got on my nerves, I like him so much now, and the little giraffe from Sherloque was really nice, as was him saying that they already had a detective on the team so they didnt need him. 

Ralph has been one of the few bright spots this season. I hope that Sue comes into his life next season. He deserves some happiness.

[tennisgurl]

4 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I hope that Sue comes into his life next season. He deserves some happiness.

Same here, that would be really nice to see, especially after how much he has grown. Just as long as they never try to adapt Identity Crisis...

[SimoneS]

Another thing I liked about the finale is that the writers created a credible scenario where Team Flash had no choice, but to destroy the dagger and knowing that that might happen, Team Flash was smart enough to have a back up plan in place to use Nora's ability to rewind time to stop Thawne. After a season full of episode after episode of failure, Team Flash finally showed that it had a brain and came through.

Edited May 15, 2019 by SimoneS

[cambridgeguy]

Cisco, you selfish bastard.  You have literally saved lives with your powers and there is no good reason to drop them entirely.  Just don't use them and burn the Vibe suit if you don't want to be a superhero but don't take the cure.  Kamilla didn't even mind!  I can think of a lot of people who'd be thrilled to have a significant other who can teleport the two of you anywhere.

[BeautifulFlower]

50 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

That version of future Iris no longer exists because the timeline has been changed. I am pretty confident that in the new timeline, Barry will disappear and re-appear. He and Iris will have their twins and raise them together.

See this show is very confusing on timeline changes. When Nora was erased, how come her journal was still there? I never got how some things stay intact after someone is erased.

[DavidJSnyder]

52 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Ralph has been one of the few bright spots this season. I hope that Sue comes into his life next season. He deserves some happiness.

Spoiler

The file he was holding at the end said Dearbon which is Sue’s maiden name. So maybe they’re going there.

[SimoneS]

13 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

See this show is very confusing on timeline changes. When Nora was erased, how come her journal was still there? I never got how some things stay intact after someone is erased.

The show is full of inconsistency when it comes to the timeline changes. I think the real reason that Nora's journal remained because the speed force language in it will likely hold a clue to saving Barry. I do think that this version of Nora was erased the moment that the new timeline set in, but everything that she did when she traveled to the past remained intact. This is why they should have always been concerned about how her actions impacted their future. I think that the timeline started to change the moment she punched the satellite and then the destruction of the dagger altered it permanently causing the crisis to move up to 2019, preventing this version of Nora from being conceived. 

I just realized that the show didn't use the scenes of Barry and Iris saying goodbye to Nora in the future.

Edited May 15, 2019 by SimoneS

[Jediknight]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

CAPTAIN SINGH KNOWS BARRY IS THE FLASH!!!! "Hey, I'm a detective too!" Yeah friggin' right. One of the hundreds of thousands of Central Citizens in the know probably spilled the beans. After five years, it's about time. "So THAT'S why Allen couldn't bother to be at his sentencing last year! Wow, how can I be so dense?!?"

He's known the entire time, he just never said anything to Barry about it.  Remember in season 1 when Cecile said it was hard to believe they live in a world where the superpowered kind of impossible exists, Singh said "Luckily, it's also a world where The Flash exists," and he looks at Barry.  Singh's known since the beginning that Barry is The Flash, Barry being a good CSI wasn't the only reason that Singh kept him around.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Damn. I was hoping to see

twins

at the end when Barry stuck the usb-thingie into the whatzit.

Original Eobard as Welles NEVER had that nails on a chalkboard whispery voice! He spoke in a NORMAL voice. The whispery affect was E-2’s Harrison’s schtick.

I thoroughly enjoyed this finale. Though Grace should not have been erased. Instead she should have turned into the nice Grace who is not a meta. Because young Grace didn’t die.

ARGH! All this timey whimey travel just gives me the aching head.

I would say that watching Nora disappear was worse than Baby Sara being in a different timeline. Because until Barry told Diggle, he didn’t know that he and Lyla had a baby girl. In the timeline that was formed as a result of Flashpoint, All they knew was that they had a son.

A big old yaaawn about next season. This and the other shows I watch have just disappointed/burned me one too many times. I don’t know that I’ll be back next season.

[catrice2]

Really?  He must have been the best CSI before the series started, because pretty much since season 1 he has been a CSI very little of the time, including taking a sabbatical.  I don't even know what I just saw...other than the fast forwarding I have skipped so much of this season I barely knew what was happening. 

I can only hope that CISCO is not coming back next year, or a version of Wells. Tired of both of them.  Thank God Nora is gone.  I have not been watching Arrow, ,which seems strange to say because the first two seasons were must see tv for me.  I have the episodes on DVR for this year, but i have had little interest in watching them.  

Can some kind soul tell me what is going on with the Crisis?  

[steelyis]

Iris and Barry begging Nora to save herself killed me; Candace and Grant know how to sell panic and desperation so damn well.

Joe hugging Iris and Barry then kissing them both on the cheek.💔

As good as the scenes of Iris and Barry mourning were, I can't pretend Nora being erased made me sad. I was glad she disappeared. Nora did grow as a character in the finale, but it was too late. A few minutes of character development isn't going to make me forget all the episodes before showing Nora being an annoying brat. Her crappy behavior just left too big of a negative impression for me to ignore.

I'll reserve judgement on Cisco giving up his powers until I see how everything shakes out next season, but my knee-jerk reaction is: Why Doe?

It was a good season finale; almost good enough to make up for the rest of the season being generally sub-par.

[SimoneS]

While I felt for Barry and Iris, I can't fake any sympathy over Nora being erased because her own stupidity. She was a pain in the ass for most of the season and too often just unlikable. I will never understand why they decided to have the season revolve around her when she was only going to be around for one year.

There are still loose ends: 1) How did Nora believe stopping Cicada and destroying the dagger would stop Barry from disappearing? I still don't get how Thawne convinced her that this would happen, 2) How did Grace know about the Star Labs' time sphere and how did she use it to travel to the past, and 3) Who was Thawne's only other visitor in 15 years?

[VCRTracking]

[Trini]

Well, I'll start with the one big thing that I HATED: Cisco giving up his powers. Hate.

This was just last season:

Plus, Cisco can still, you know, do other stuff AND have powers just like he's been doing this whole time!?!

Also, I don't see a narrative purpose for this. The best reason I can think of is that the writers are LAZY and they decided to get rid of one overpowered character. Sure - depower the person with the most useful powers, while other team members who are more useful without powers than with (Caitlin and Ralph) are left alone.

I might rant more about this in the Cisco thread.

(Cisco didn't leave, but the rumors persist. I don't get it.)

[thuganomics85]

The hell?  That was actually a pretty solid finale!  Then again, I remember the same thing happened last season.  I swear, while most shows seem to have trouble sticking the landing at the end, this show seems to have perfected the art of stumbling over its own feet for half of the season, but then managed to land on the x at the end.  I guess as long as you make it to the finish line, that's pretty much a win?

Realistically, I do think what helped was them quickly dispatching Cicada since that whole thing was a bust (sorry, Sarah Carter.  At least you fared better than whatever Chris Klein was trying to do), and letting Reverse Flash take front and center again.  Granted, it might feel like a crutch at times and I still wish they got Matt Letscher back since Tom Cavanagh's take feels a little lazy, but it's just fun watching him be so many steps ahead.  It's like he's playing 4D Chess and Team Flash is too busy trying to hit a piñata.  Of course, I suspect next season will start with him absence/in the background, while another lame villain takes the spotlight, but I'm looking forward to seeing what drama he causes.

Hey, they actually gave Nora good exit!  They had her admit that a lot of the damage was caused by her and her alone, she willingly let herself evaporate because the alternative would have likely been much worse, and there was no last minute save!  Still doesn't make up for all of the obnoxious behavior in the past, but it was the best ending possible, I think.  Again though, I do hope Jessica Parker Kennedy continues to find good roles, because I do think she was the perfect choice and shine with what she was given.

Well, great!  I originally felt bad for Barry and Iris and still do (plus, Grant Gustin and Candice Patton delivered as always), but thanks to this thread, I'm now picturing Diggle smirking and saying "Sucks, doesn't it, Barry!"

Fare thee well, Sherloque!  I wonder what "eccentric" character Tom will play next season.

So, Cisco decides he flat-out doesn't want his powers anymore and takes the cure?  Yeah, that development wasn't earned at all.  I have no clue what is going on.  I haven't heard anything yet about Carlos Valdes exiting, so maybe he just doesn't want to do anymore action-type scenes and rather stick with being the tech guy?  I got nothing right now.

Favorite part was easily Singh revealing that, yes, he knows Barry is the freaking Flash.  You're the best, CHIEF Singh!

Joe being the new captain could be interesting, I guess.

Finally, it wouldn't be a season five episode if I didn't mention at least once that I continue to be amazed that Ralph is one of the best things about this series now.  Never would have predicted that.

[Trini]

I have mixed feelings for this finale. There were parts that I really liked, but also parts that showcased some of the problems of the season as a whole.

I feel like the Cicada plot and Sherloque's should have been wrapped up in the previous episode, so that there could more focus the West-Allen family changes, Reverse Flash, and making Cisco's plot twist make sense.

I highlight of the episode for me was confirmation that Singh knows Barry is the Flash! I've always thought that he has known for a while but chooses to say anything. (Plausible deniability!)

Joe becoming Captain was nice, but I wish it was an arc that had been built up from before. There was only a hint of this change in just the previous episode. Also, does this mean we're going to see even less of Police Chief Singh?? :(

Not going to get into how screwed up Cisco's arc was again, but I did like that we got to see Kamilla again. Although I'm not sure how serious TPTB are about this relationship with Cisco.

I think there were - mostly - satisfying endings for everyone's arcs, but so many plot holes if you just think about them for a second. Destroying the dagger in the past should NOT just erase the dagger in the future, it should create a whole new timeline. I was expecting Thawne to escape, but it didn't make sense the way they did it.

The better way to erase Gracada was to get the shard out of Young Grace's head. But of course the plot made sure to force them to destroy the dagger anyway.

I laughed at the Hallmark movie comment and KF's reaction - especially since Danielle was recently in a Hallmark movie! I think it was a shout-out.

Eobard's prison uniform looks a lot like his Reverse Flash suit....

I wish Iris had a bigger part in this, besides being devasted over Nora. A one-on-one scene with Nora would have been good. My bigger issue is that considering how much they highlighted Iris' grief about Nora in this finale, the writers should have done a better job of building up the Iris/Nora relationship in the season beforehand. I felt some of Nora's "eulogy" from Barry & Iris was unearned. (Really, Nora? I would change maybe a few things about your time with your parents...)

But in any case, I thought Grant, Candice Jessica, and Carlos really brought their 'A-game' for this episode. When Nora disappeared and when Barry & Iris played the message in the Time Vault had me verklempt! So that's 3 for 3 with West-Allens leaving video messages for each other. Heh.

I liked that the finale ended on an open-ended note. They can pretty much start Season 6 however and when ever they want. (But i know things will have to align with the crossover.)

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, Trini said:

Well, I'll start with the one big thing that I HATED: Cisco giving up his powers. Hate.This was just last season:
Plus, Cisco can still, you know, do other stuff AND have powers just like he's been doing this whole time!?!

Also, I don't see a narrative purpose for this. The best reason I can think of is that the writers are LAZY and they decided to get rid of one overpowered character. Sure - depower the person with the most useful powers, while other team members who are more useful without powers than with (Caitlin and Ralph) are left alone.

I have been complaining about Team Flash having too many metas for the whole season so I am a hypocrite complaining about Cisco giving up his powers, but I am doing so anyway. Cisco does have one of the most useful powers. The breaching devices don't make up for losing his ability to breach in moments when they are in danger or using his powers as a weapon to stop villains. However, I understand why DC would agree to have Cisco be the one to give up his powers. Elongated Man and Killer Frost to a lesser degree are more prominent comic characters compared to Vibe. I would have had Cecile lose her powers permanently as well though. I am concerned that Cisco no longer having powers might be a set up for the character to be killed during the crisis next season.

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

Joe becoming Captain was nice, but I wish it was an arc that had been built up from before. There was only a hint of this change in just the previous episode. 

I would have liked more time devoted to Joe's eventual promotion also, but Jesse's injury might have derailed that plot so I am cutting them some slack. I just hope that this means we get to see Joe, Barry, and Iris have more scenes on the CCPD and the CSI lab sets next season. I am beyond tired of the Star Labs sets. It felt like they were glued there this season.

Edited May 15, 2019 by SimoneS

[Lady Calypso]

That wasn't a bad finale, per say. I liked several moments....but I also went "wait, what" during some of them.

First off, bye-bye Nora! You had so much potential but...in the end...meh. 

So, Cisco ends up giving up his powers....why? They honestly barely set that plot up all season so it's just so out of nowhere, despite having them addressed it in a previous episode. It just feels super dumb, as if they're trying to save some money on budget. It was nice to see Kamilla be so accepting of Cisco as Vibe and why he couldn't tell her his secret earlier, but with this being the ONLY moment where I liked Kamilla (and even when I thought she'd totally reject him before that moment), I still don't like Cisco/Kamilla together.

The Cicada stuff should have been wrapped up last episode so that this finale could have been dedicated to Reverse Flash. I mean, I'm annoyed by Thawne and his whisper voice (Tom Cavanagh, Thawne didn't whisper this much in season 1. SPEAK UP) but if they were clearly setting up to be the big bad villain all along, at least give it more than ten minutes of pay off. Instead, it felt like a cheap ploy and extremely rushed just to have Nora be erased from the timeline. 

Joe getting a promotion was nice, though, as was Singh finally confirming that he knows Barry is The Flash. But does this really mean that Singh's really not going to be showing up next season? Because when a reveal like this happens, typically it means the character is done. So I'm confused.

Ralph gets something to do and to be right, but it still feels like he didn't get a lot of the credit, here. I'm hoping more from him next season because he was truly great.

Sherloque's gone and ushered out in about one minute. That's...an abrupt end for his character. I knew he'd leave, but because of this rushed finale, it was a blink and you'd miss it moment.

The acting from Jessica, Grant, and Candice was all well done. I have my issues about the West Allen family, but the acting was always top notched on all ends. 

At least this finale ended on a positive note. Is this truly the first time when there was no major cliffhanger (besides the Crisis end card)? If it's not the first, then it's definitely only the second.

[BeautifulFlower]

I wish Iris was apart of the scene towards the end at CCPD. Singh did inform them about Grace, but he clearly called Joe, Cecile, and Barry them to tell them about him and Joe's promotion. Singh didn't think Joe's daughter should be apart of it?

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I wish Iris was apart of the scene towards the end at CCPD. Singh did inform them about Grace, but he clearly called Joe, Cecile, and Barry them to tell them about him and Joe's promotion. Singh didn't think Joe's daughter should be apart of it?

No. Because Iris doesn't work for either the CCPD or the District Attorney's office. Barry and Joe worked under Singh, and Cecille, last I heard, was still DA.

[BeautifulFlower]

6 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No. Because Iris doesn't work for either the CCPD or the District Attorney's office. Barry and Joe worked under Singh, and Cecille, last I heard, was still DA.

I know that. It's why I mentioned that Singh clearly called them there to tell them about the promotion. If that was his main reason for calling them there, Iris should have been apart of it. Singh didn't go over know case details. Telling them that Grace will be put in a home is something Iris could've heard and not get in trouble for.

[shantown]

I’ll be sad if that was a series wrap for Carlos Valdes but wouldn’t mind if Cisco and Wells weren’t back next year. I need Barry to start stepping up in the “tech brain” role if they ever expect me to believe he could create Gideon. Also every version of Wells has been more annoying that the last, especially this year when they HAD a detective on the team already and didn’t need another. I also wouldn’t mind a smaller core cast and a move to being based out of CCPD and the building that has the Citizen and Ralph’s office.

I felt kind of sad at the end, only because Candice Patton sold the panicked desperation so well. But it didn’t make me feel bad that Nora disappeared after over a season of working with Thawne and messing up the timeline. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by shantown
Darn autocorrect!

[GHScorpiosRule]

45 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I know that. It's why I mentioned that Singh clearly called them there to tell them about the promotion. If that was his main reason for calling them there, Iris should have been apart of it. Singh didn't go over know case details. Telling them that Grace will be put in a home is something Iris could've heard and not get in trouble for.

It has nothing to do with Iris possibly getting in trouble for. She's not a cop. She's not an employee of the police department. Nor a consultant. Only those that worked for and in conjunction with the CCPD, and who Singh supervised, were informed. What you're asking is something like, if my supervising attorney, has been made Managing Partner, and I've made Partner. So my child/SO/husband should also be there, because it's not client related and no confidentiality would be breached.

It has nothing to do with Iris not being privy to open investigations.

[sarthaz]

Felt more like a series finale. Some nice character moments at the end.

There should be a law against time travel plots. None of this made any damn sense.

Also making no sense is Cisco giving up his powers. Of all the people on the show, he's one of the least defined by his powers. At this point, they're simply a tool. It's like him saying, "I don't know who Cisco is anymore without all these computers and technical equipment and electricity, so I'm just going to break it all and go live in the wilderness with bears." WTF

[shantown]

1 hour ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I know that. It's why I mentioned that Singh clearly called them there to tell them about the promotion. If that was his main reason for calling them there, Iris should have been apart of it. Singh didn't go over know case details. Telling them that Grace will be put in a home is something Iris could've heard and not get in trouble for.

8 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It has nothing to do with Iris possibly getting in trouble for. She's not a cop. She's not an employee of the police department. Nor a consultant. Only those that worked for and in conjunction with the CCPD, and who Singh supervised, were informed. What you're asking is something like, if my supervising attorney, has been made Managing Partner, and I've made Partner. So my child/SO/husband should also be there, because it's not client related and no confidentiality would be breached.

It has nothing to do with Iris not being privy to open investigations.

How I view it is that it's TV, and moreso - it's The Flash. There's never been a strict following of real-life HR laws or anything. It would have been a nice West family moment, a nice character moment with Singh, and would have included Iris in an important development related to her entire family (rather than having to be told this later, which isn't good TV). I would have liked to see Iris there too.

[Diapason Untuned]

13 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Has there been an announcement that Carlos is leaving? I keep seeing people saying that he is. I thought Cisco took the cure, but is still part of Team Flash. 

We Got This Covered published a story about Carlos Valdes leaving. He avoided answering when someone asked him at a con, so it's probably true.

The writers probably thought that since they had to do the cure plot, they would piggyback Cisco leaving on it to create personal stakes with him and avoid having to come up with something else.

A classic excuse of writing for plot instead of characters.

[AnimeMania]

40 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

There should be a law against time travel plots. None of this made any damn sense.

I agree, here is just a small list of the time hijinks confusium, 

1) Will Nora ever be born?

2) Will Iris put a chip in Nora knowing the trauma it caused her?

3) How do you decide under what circumstances you should reverse time?

4) How did Team Flash know when, to the microsecond and micro-location to place the time sphere to intersect with Eobard running as fast as he can?

5)  Eobard splits himself into two, what would have happened if they had managed to catch one of the half-Eobards and the other gets away? Now that might have been a great story!

As far as I could tell nothing in that episode made any sense, so I have trouble giving praise to it. All I could think about at the end was that Nora should be saying everything that she is saying to Iris, to the "Iris of that time" because she was totally a "Dick (with a capital D)" to "future Iris". PS, I am usually not very sympathetic any time there is an emotional scene. I am usually not swayed by the "feels", I need a "rock solid" plot and this episode just "phased" right through that.

4 minutes ago, Diapason Untuned said:

We Got This Covered published a story about Carlos Valdes leaving. He avoided answering when someone asked him at a con, so it's probably true.

He can probably make more money doing "shampoo commercials", than he ever could on The Flash.

[shantown]

I will give the episode some points for the scene of them throwing the Time Travel Hamster Ball at Thawne and him getting hit and knocked over. I did laugh out loud at that! 

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Diapason Untuned said:

We Got This Covered published a story about Carlos Valdes leaving. He avoided answering when someone asked him at a con, so it's probably true.

The writers probably thought that since they had to do the cure plot, they would piggyback Cisco leaving on it to create personal stakes with him and avoid having to come up with something else.

A classic excuse of writing for plot instead of characters.

That is a click bait site and the Canadagraphs guy who visits the locations where they film said that Carlos told him that he was coming back next season. I am waiting for the official announcement about his departure. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by SimoneS

[Diapason Untuned]

3 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

That is click bait site and the Canadagraphs guy who visits the locations where they film said that Carlos told him that he was coming back next season. I am waiting for the official announcement about his departure. 

If it was just that site, I'd agree, but he deliberately avoided answering the question when it was posed to him at a con, so that makes it more likely. It's not as if he died, so he could come back in an episode or two.

[Trini]

16 minutes ago, Diapason Untuned said:

If it was just that site, I'd agree, but he deliberately avoided answering the question when it was posed to him at a con, so that makes it more likely. It's not as if he died, so he could come back in an episode or two.

Carlos wouldn't have been able to answer anyway because of spoilers. (As explained at that same con.) The season's over, we would have heard an announcement by now.

[Diapason Untuned]

1 minute ago, Trini said:

Carlos wouldn't have been able to answer anyway because of spoilers. (As explained at that same con.) The season's over, we would have heard an announcement by now.

*shrugs*

Then it makes no sense whatsoever.

[Writing Wrongs]

13 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Can some kind soul tell me what is going on with the Crisis? 

I second this. I still don't get what they are doing.

[SimoneS]

We don't know the details about what is going to happen in the Crisis next season because they are being kept secret from fans. There is a thread about the crossovers in the Legends of Tomorrow forum where people talk about the Crisis that might be helpful.

Edited May 15, 2019 by SimoneS

[VCRTracking]

Nora might have been annoying through a lot of the season but Jessica Parker Kennedy brought it to those final moments along with Candice Patton and Grant Gustin. The 3 of them were great in the scene with Nora's final message too. I expect Jessica will return sometime in the future but as Dawn Allen, one half of the "Tornado Twins" and be a different person.

[Chicago Redshirt]

10 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

I second this. I still don't get what they are doing.

Crisis on Infinite Earths was one of the classic comic book crossovers from DC. It used to be that DC had separate dimensions in which the heroes it controlled lived. The primary version of DC heroes were on Earth 1. Earth 2 featured the Justice Society -- the heroes as originally conceived by DC in the 1940s who aged, had children, etc. Earth S was where the Shazam-related heroes were, and so on.

At some point in the 1980s, the powers that be decided that they wanted to consolidate all their heroes into one universe. So they created the miniseries as a way to do it. An entity called the Anti-Monitor was destroying the various universes for his nefarious purposes. The destruction of a given universe would be preceded by the skies turning red, shadow demons flying all around, and then an anti-matter wave would wipe the universe out of existence.

The Monitor recruited numerous heroes and villains in an attempt to stop him. The end result was that they managed to save a single universe with the best bits and pieces of the remaining ones, and it got a retroactively shared timeline. As part of Crisis, Flash sacrificed himself to stop an anti-matter cannon that the Anti-Monitor was using and then mysteriously vanished. (Supergirl was killed at some point by the Anti-Monitor as well).

In this season's Arrowverse crossover, we have had some of this teased. The Monitor has appeared to test heroes to see if they could help stop the Crisis, and at least one universe was destroyed.

[BeautifulFlower]

If Carlos isn't leaving, then I'm going to assume an announcement will be made this summer that he will be recurring from now on. 

I'm sorry, but something had to happen bts. In the beginning, Cisco complained about not using powers because of Cicada. Then, in 5x10, he wanted to get rid of them all of a sudden. 

In this episode, his last scene with Caitlin sounded like a goodbye. It sounded like he was leaving the team. What is going on?

Edited May 15, 2019 by BeautifulFlower
correct spelling

[SimoneS]

1 minute ago, BeautifulFlower said:

If Carlos isn't leaving, then I'm going to assume an announcement will be made this summer that he will be recurring from now on. 

I think you might be right. We might not get an official announcement that Carlos is recurring, but that will be the case. He will appear in a handful of episodes and then he will eventually stop appearing for long stretches, maybe Cisco is one of the victims of the Crisis. Carlos lives in NY, maybe he wants to go back to go back home and do Broadway again.