S17.E07: Elegance Is the New Black

[ScrapNini]

11 hours ago, millennium said:

Why is it necessary to have any term that designates people 14 and above as second class citizens?   Everybody knows the upper sizes are for larger people, do we really need a term like "plus size" or "curvy" for added insult?  What's the point?  To keep those people in their place?   To give the size 2 and 4 crowd something to snicker at?   

Clothes should be marketed without judgment but the current nomenclature -- "plus size," "curvy," etc. -- imposes a verdict on the buyer.  It says "You're not one of us, dear."

If the industry truly wants to do away with body shaming (and I don't believe it does, I think it's all just lip service for marketing purposes), expunging terms like "plus size" and "curvy" might be a good place to start.  

Curvy isn’t a bad word.  Nor do I think it is an insult to be called such.  Curvy denotes a fit in fashion, the same way that a woman who wears a petite needs a different fit than a non-petite woman.) I can dress a client who needs to wear a pant in a size 2 (because of the size of her waist), who may also need a curvy cut, because she is fuller through the hips and thighs.)  This is not a “fat woman”.  This woman is a thin woman who has actual curves, and that is good. (2 was an arbitrary number, insert any size in its place and the meaning of what I have said still holds true.)

The unfortunate thing I see,  as a stylist, is that many women size up to accommodate their curves, while wearing bottoms that are ill fitting at the waist and also believing they are bigger than they actually are.  Fit is the most important aspect in any garnet, for any woman, any age and of any size.  

Edited April 29, 2019 by ScrapNini
Typos

[millennium]

33 minutes ago, ScrapNini said:

Curvy isn’t a bad word.  Nor do I think it is an insult to be called such.  Curvy denotes a fit in fashion, the same way that a woman who wears a petite needs a different fit than a non-petite woman.) I can dress a client who needs to wear a pant in a size 2 (because of the size of her waist), who may also need a curvy cut, because she is fuller through the hips and thighs.)  This is not a “fat woman”.  This woman is a thin woman who has actual curves, and that is good. (2 was an arbitrary number, insert any size in its place and the meaning of what I have said still holds true.)

The unfortunate thing I see,  as a stylist, is that many women size up to accommodate their curves, while wearing bottoms that are ill fitting at the waist and also believing they are bigger than they actually are.  Fit is the most important aspect in any garnet, for any woman, any age and of any size.  

I guess one might put that spin on it.  I still find it condescending.

Edited April 29, 2019 by millennium

[Ashforth]

I'm gonna throw this out there: regardless of whether you intend it as a reference to a comment by a contestant on a previous season that viewers of this season may or may not have seen, don't call a woman or man of color a "monkey."  Further, when called out for making the "monkey" comment, don't defend it as okay.

That is all.

[Kaiju Ballet]

4 hours ago, stormy weather said:

My point is that at the end of the day the show is called Project Runway, not Project Sidewalk, so it should either include ALL these body types, ALL the time (which I would absolutely love and prefer) or just stick to regular models and have the occasional episode where EVERY designer has to make clothes for plus-sized models, shorter models, older women and so on.

This is a really good point that I have to keep reminding myself too when looking at the designs that come out on the runway. I would personally like Renee's style and designs for myself, but I'm far from a fashion editor or anyone else working in the industry. I'd expect these designers to be judged based on what could set the fashion trends--works of art and theater (with dramatic hair makeup and accessories) that will then trickle their way down to the public in very watered down, wearable and affordable versions. The flash fashion aspect of the challenge, as people have correctly pointed out, penalizes designers who are more likely to deliver on conceptual, high fashion or haute couture. 

Someone else mentioned a comparison to Top Chef, and that had me thinking. On Top Chef, since we can't taste or smell the food, we're 100% reliant on the judges. Here, we can see the work as presented, but must rely on the judges for feedback on how well constructed the garment is, and how it's good (or not) fashion design. And there seems to be a real disconnect between what's said by the judges vs. what we see on our screens. Even worse, the critique on design is still lacking, and so the judges scoring still seems arbitrary or a matter of personal preference instead of professional expertise. Or, in the case of Hester, production interference.

4 hours ago, stormy weather said:

On an unrelated note, weren't the clothes supposed to be inspired by what was in the bag? Can anyone explain to me how the monstrosity that was Hester's dress was supposed to have anything to do with peacock feathers? Or Tessa's with money, or Renee's (which I think I actually liked but who knows, we were only allowed to see it for a split second) with limes and lemons? And basically Sebastian's dress was a waaaay more elegant, more refined and better executed version (and in a more tasteful shade of pink) of Vinny's hot pink super plain tube dress, yet Vinny was in the top and Sebastian was merely safe.

ITA. It seemed to only be another thing used to ding a designer once they were on the bottom. Plus a reminder that Brandon's a big time designer. (I'm still enjoying him as a judge for the most part--definitely moreso than Zac Posen. )

4 hours ago, stormy weather said:

Heidi "antichrist of fashion" Klum

Lolololol! Bless her heart whenever she would disagree with Nina Garcia and Michael Kors.

[violet and green]

1 hour ago, Ashforth said:

I'm gonna throw this out there: regardless of whether you intend it as a reference to a comment by a contestant on a previous season that viewers of this season may or may not have seen, don't call a woman or man of color a "monkey."  Further, when called out for making the "monkey" comment, don't defend it as okay.

That is all.

At no point did I or anyone else call Renee "a monkey".

"One-way monkey" is part of Project Runway history, for any keen fan. To insinuate or imply that either I, or Dmitri - using English as a second language - or anyone else in any thread was intending in any way to make a racist comment by using this phrase is heinous.

Should I not correct that misapprehension? I think there's an edge of insanity in picking words at random and policing their supposed intent. But that aside, should I just let it sit there, misunderstood, and take the shame of being called a boorish racist because I didn't rate a designer's look?

Let me rephrase my initial comment:

I loathed Renee's look - and am beginning to think she truly is a one-trick pony.

Clearly some people have less than broad references when it comes to language and idiom, but the expression has been around for aeons. Here you go, the basic meaning:

"one-trick pony

noun

a person or thing with only one special feature, talent, or area of expertise."

I would have expected an apology from the offended poster, actually, for jumping to conclusions and then going on to further insinuate Dmitri was a racist, for god's sake, because of his charming malapropism, all the while feeling free to make an offensive 'joke' comment about Hester - who is clearly fair game in these parts - in order to backtrack.

[violet and green]

Here is the original usage:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 hours ago, ScrapNini said:

Curvy isn’t a bad word.  Nor do I think it is an insult to be called such.  Curvy denotes a fit in fashion, the same way that a woman who wears a petite needs a different fit than a non-petite woman.) I can dress a client who needs to wear a pant in a size 2 (because of the size of her waist), who may also need a curvy cut, because she is fuller through the hips and thighs.)  This is not a “fat woman”.  This woman is a thin woman who has actual curves, and that is good. (2 was an arbitrary number, insert any size in its place and the meaning of what I have said still holds true.)

The unfortunate thing I see,  as a stylist, is that many women size up to accommodate their curves, while wearing bottoms that are ill fitting at the waist and also believing they are bigger than they actually are.  Fit is the most important aspect in any garnet, for any woman, any age and of any size.  

I always had this problem. Even when I was a size 0, I still had an ass (I blame/credit all the years of ballet giving me that junk in the trunk) so if the jeans fit my ass, the waist was so big that when I sat down, the back gapped so much you could see down the back of my pants. I ALWAYS had to wear a belt to cinch in the waist just to keep my underwear from being on view. As much as some people hate jeggings, I love that they have enough stretch to allow me to buy pants that are much closer to reasonably accommodating both my butt and my waist.

But what galls me is that many designers seem unable to design clothes for anyone but a 6' tall model who is 105 pounds with a completely flat chest who requires no undergarments. Yes, there are definitely people like that but there are all kinds of body types that they seem unable to clothe properly.

[FormerMod-a1]

Let's move on from the "one way monkey" talk.

[Madding crowd]

13 hours ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

Two questions/topics I'd love to throw out here for clarification or just thoughts from those who might be interested or know the answers: 

1) Is it totally my imagination or has the "size scale" slid upwards in, say, the last 40 years or so? One poster mentioned that she had worn a size 6 or 8 her entire life. I keep thinking that items that were, say, a 10 or 12 or 14 when I was young might now be an 8 or 6 or even a 4. I don't know if the average adult woman now versus 1970 or 1980 is bigger, wider, taller, "curvier" or whatever, or if designers are more afraid of offending people and thereby calling them a smaller size to make them feel better or it's totally in my head. 

I can't use my own self as a reference because, as mentioned, I have an older woman's body that has seen yoyo-dieting, baby-having, lox-like-living and gravity take its toll, so the boobs that were once horizontal are vertical and the tummy that was flat (ish) ... isn't, and where I once was ridiculously slim-hipped I now have a butt. So I can't really use my own size then vs. size now because I've gotten somewhat bigger but have REALLY redistributed. But, for example, Little Snappy is really curvy (not plus-sized, but super-generously-curvy) and she wears a Size 4, despite being way more bootylicious than I ever was even when I starved myself down to a 6. 

2) I may have missed someone (or more than one person) mentioning this but since I don't really know much about just how much fabric is priced, how much more it might take to dress, say, a Kate versus a petite model, but does anyone think that that ever might factor into a designer's decision? Especially after we just saw someone (was it Bishme?) go over budget with their fabric and have to scramble at the register under the clock gun.

PS Mighty Sparrow, totally with you on Renee. She is the epitome of quiet elegance. I adore her and just hope she doesn't fly TOO far under the radar. 

Yes, I think about this all the time. 20 years ago I was 110 pounds at 5’6 and wore a size 4 on top and 6 in jeans. Nowadays I have friends the same weight and height who say they wear size 0 or 2. Personally I think it is dumb to have a size 0 because it implies you don’t exist, but I can’t imagine many women who are 5’6 and weigh much less than 110 so sizing has changed.

I agree that Renée makes elegant clothing although I thought this weeks outfit looked really similar to some of her previous looks.

[staphdude]

On 4/26/2019 at 9:33 AM, dleighg said:

Christian: You've got a curvy girl, this is the first time with a curvy girl for you, right?

Tessa: Yeah. I'm trying to channel my mom, who always wears oversized coats, and always looks so elegant.

Tessa: DID YOU JUST CALL YOUR MOM OVERWEIGHT ON NATIONAL TV??? (Oops, I mean "curvy")

Gee thanks, kiddo.

Pot calling her mother black. Tessa is short and curvy so perhaps she should rethink her idea of what is appropriate in a model. 

As a perhaps irrelevant aside could someone with more expertise weigh in on how much more material is required when sizing up designs for height and or “curviness”. 

Lela’s and Venny’s dresses were as boring as Sonia’s. In my mind elegance often tends towards classic. Worn with confidence those looks never shout boring.

i wish they wouldn’t define a challenge one way and then judge on different criteria. according to Webter’s Elegance is “refined grace or dignified propriety” while OED says elegant is “graceful and stylish in appearance or manner”. These should be the criteria at the forefront of the judging and so in my mind Sonia should have stayed and Bishmee should have gone. Otherwise provide a more complete picture of what you are looking for, not just elegant but modern.

[DaphneCat]

14 hours ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

1) Is it totally my imagination or has the "size scale" slid upwards in, say, the last 40 years or so? One poster mentioned that she had worn a size 6 or 8 her entire life. I keep thinking that items that were, say, a 10 or 12 or 14 when I was young might now be an 8 or 6 or even a 4. I don't know if the average adult woman now versus 1970 or 1980 is bigger, wider, taller, "curvier" or whatever, or if designers are more afraid of offending people and thereby calling them a smaller size to make them feel better or it's totally in my head. 

Because I am fascinated with this topic I did a bit of research.  I seemed to remember that pattern companies resized their patterns sometime in the late 60's early 70's to reflect the fact that women were getting physically bigger - i.e. taller and broader.  I looked up vintage patterns and was amazed at the difference.

As an example, when I was growing up a size 10 was considered quite slim (yes, I am old!) so I did a simple comparison for this size in patterns:

Pre 1957          28B 23W 31H

1958-1967       31B 24W 33H 

1967 on           32.5B 25W 34.5H

Current size chart for LLBean Size 10   37B 29.5W 39.5H

A current size 10 would have been between sizes 18-20 before 1957 and between sizes 16-18 between 1958-1967.  So the famous comment that Marilyn Monroe wore a size 14 means standard measurements would have been 32-26-35 in her day.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

40 minutes ago, staphdude said:

As a perhaps irrelevant aside could someone with more expertise weigh in on how much more material is required when sizing up designs for height and or “curviness”.

Someone mentioned this yesterday:

14 hours ago, DaphneCat said:

Unless they are going from a VERY tiny size to VERY much larger (say from a size 2 to a size 20) they would not need that much extra fabric - 1 to 1 1/2 more yards at most.  (Most fabric is x amount wide if it is a small person you simply don't use all the width - for a larger person you use more of it.)   You would actually need more to clothe a tall woman versus a short woman or if you made a longer skirt than a shorter one (or say, pants versus a skirt).  Most of the fabric they are purchasing at Mood is NOT that expensive - the differential is probably less than $30.00

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, DaphneCat said:

Because I am fascinated with this topic I did a bit of research.  I seemed to remember that pattern companies resized their patterns sometime in the late 60's early 70's to reflect the fact that women were getting physically bigger - i.e. taller and broader.  I looked up vintage patterns and was amazed at the difference.

As an example, when I was growing up a size 10 was considered quite slim (yes, I am old!) so I did a simple comparison for this size in patterns:

Pre 1957          28B 23W 31H

1958-1967       31B 24W 33H 

1967 on           32.5B 25W 34.5H

Current size chart for LLBean Size 10   37B 29.5W 39.5H

A current size 10 would have been between sizes 18-20 before 1957 and between sizes 16-18 between 1958-1967.  So the famous comment that Marilyn Monroe wore a size 14 means standard measurements would have been 32-26-35 in her day.

It is crazy.  I remember seeing a display of Lucille Ball's costumes from "I Love Lucy" in the 50's including a very cute polka dot dress she wore often on the show.  In multiple episodes, Lucy is out dress shopping with Ethel and says she wears a size 12, which I presume was Lucille's actual size at the time.  The dress on display was TINY, a size 4 in today's sizes maybe smaller.

I, too, remember being 120 and 5'5" back in the mid 70's (those were the days, my friend) and I consistent wore a size 10-12, depending on the cut, since my hips were relatively large compared to my upper half.  Nowadays, I would probably be a 6 or 8, if a miracle occurred and I lost half my weight.

Project Runway has always been kind of schizophrenic in its aims.  On one hand, they want to appeal to the average viewer who is a female with a wide variety of proportions, shapes and sizes.   On the other, they want to show cutting edge fashion, couture,  where the clothing isn't meant for the real world but instead to be a statement, a piece of art and is therefore most easily appreciated on a very tall, thin model who will blend into the background so the clothing is the star.  Two different goals; two different approaches.

[staphdude]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Someone mentioned this yesterday:

Oops missed that! While it isn’t likely a major factor I was wondering how much that was considered given pricing at Mood. I recall a previous episode where one of the sales people quoted an exorbitant per yard price for a fabric....

[DaphneCat]

2 minutes ago, staphdude said:

Oops missed that! While it isn’t likely a major factor I was wondering how much that was considered given pricing at Mood. I recall a previous episode where one of the sales people quoted an exorbitant per yard price for a fabric....

While Mood does have some VERY expensive fabric most of it is downright reasonable.  (They are not a wholesaler so they do have to make money selling fabric to the average home sewer - NOT someone who can, or will, spend $200-$300 on a single outfit.)  Given what some of them purchase, I can't really believe they are spending all of their money - it looks like they found it in the bargain bin.  On All Stars they had a challenge to make something with silk and while some of it was very high end most of the silk was less than $30 a yard.  Unless you were buying VERY expensive trims and notions a designer could have easily bought 8 yards of fabric plus notions - more than enough to clothe ANY body and still have some left over.

[caitmcg]

2 hours ago, DaphneCat said:

Because I am fascinated with this topic I did a bit of research.  I seemed to remember that pattern companies resized their patterns sometime in the late 60's early 70's to reflect the fact that women were getting physically bigger - i.e. taller and broader.  I looked up vintage patterns and was amazed at the difference.

I remember when I was around 14 and wore a 5 in juniors clothes and was the same height as my mother, going through some of the things she had saved from her college days in the early 1960s and pulling out a very classic, fitted black sheath dress that was a size 6. There was no way on earth it would have accommodated my waist or hips. Sizing was very different 20 years later.

[Ashforth]

12 hours ago, violet and green said:

I loathed Renee's look - and am beginning to think she truly is a one-trick pony.

I didn't hate Renee's outfit, but she does seem to be sending the same look down the runway every week, and to me, the more she piles on the layers, the more it reads bag lady. On the one hand, the judges often heap praise on contestants for having a recognizable point of view; on the other, they often criticize them for creating the same garment time after time. I think Renee has somewhat flown under the radar because far worse design sins have been committed the past few episodes.

I also agree with your assessment of the nasty personal nature of some commentary here about Hester. I don't think she's a great designer, but she doesn't seem to be a horrible person. As noted above, she has definitely mastered self-promotion, and like it or not, that's part of the reality tv game.

[terrymct]

On 4/26/2019 at 4:51 AM, nb360 said:

So the winning look is available for sale, pictured with a thin model and a curvy girl, and I have to say, Jamal’s design does not look as nice on the curvy girl as the thinner one: https://shop.nineteenthamendment.com/pages/project-runway

Whereas, I think both Garo’s and Tessa’s look would work well on the thinner models.

Is there a rule on the 19th Amendment website requiring that each outfit be photographed with one model standing and one squatting?

[Ashforth]

6 minutes ago, terrymct said:

Is there a rule on the 19th Amendment website requiring that each outfit be photographed with one model standing and one squatting?

Because the squat is the most flattering position ever. Said no one, ever.

The models also seem to be trapped in a hallway with the walls closing in. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Ashforth

[ree1778]

As a pretty curvy girl myself I actually hate having clothes that cling to my body and worse than clingy, are things that hit me at the waist. Not every curvy woman wants her curves pointed out to the rest of the world. I just wish the judges would cut the designers some slack on this. A baby doll dress with pockets, styled correctly would be lambasted on the runway as a horrible example of how not to dress a curvy woman, yet many curvy women would be so much happier in that style.

Just like women who are not curvy, curvy women all have different tastes and preferences, and that should be respected on the runway also.

[carrps]

20 hours ago, stormy weather said:

The way it is now, it looks like the designer who gets the "curvy model" starts the challenge with the design equivalent of a golf handicap, and it shouldn't be that way.

Yeah, I like the way you phrased this. Also, are the judges ever going to give the win to a "curvy" model?

[chitowngirl]

While sizing has changed over the years, the wedding dress industry has not, so a lady who is a size 0 or 2 is horrified that their wedding dress is a size 8 or 10! 😆

And “curvy” is subjective. Sarah Jessica Parker, who is probably 100 pounds soaking wet, is a curvy girl. She would not be considered “curvy” meaning “plus-sized”.

[Samwise979]

Idk if there's any rhyme or reason when it comes to sizes. I once bought 3 different tops in the same store, one was a small, one medium and one large. Sizes also vary by country. I'm an 8 in Canada but a 12 in the U.K. I just try things on and if it fits it fits. 

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, Samwise979 said:

Idk if there's any rhyme or reason when it comes to sizes. I once bought 3 different tops in the same store, one was a small, one medium and one large. Sizes also vary by country. I'm an 8 in Canada but a 12 in the U.K. I just try things on and if it fits it fits. 

When I went to the UK in 1986, their 12 was our 10.   Now it is an 8 in Canada but still a 12 in the UK

[chitowngirl]

This is why Clinton and Stacy of What Not To Wear would tell people to try things on and buy what fits, don’t pay attention to the size on the label!!

[ML89]

21 hours ago, terrymct said:

Is there a rule on the 19th Amendment website requiring that each outfit be photographed with one model standing and one squatting?

Those pictures are awful and the clothes look worse. The squatting is a crime. No wonder every time I go shopping for clothes, I end up in the same old prep styles I've been wearing since the 80s. That plaid dress is terrible on anyone not a stick, same with the hiphop jacket that hits at an angle that flatters no one. Tessa's dress looks...less heinous. But not by much.

[auntlada]

5 hours ago, ML89 said:

Those pictures are awful and the clothes look worse. The squatting is a crime. No wonder every time I go shopping for clothes, I end up in the same old prep styles I've been wearing since the 80s. That plaid dress is terrible on anyone not a stick, same with the hiphop jacket that hits at an angle that flatters no one. Tessa's dress looks...less heinous. But not by much.

I think the hiphop jacket photo on the thinner model may be a photo from the 80s.

[oceanview]

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 11:51 PM, QuantumMechanic said:

I still think any given week should either be all curvy or not at all.

Yes, I know that in real life you're making clothes for all body types.

However, this isn't real life -- it's a timed competition.  And designing for a curvy woman means you have to do more work (for example, having to do support work that designers with "traditional" models don't have to do).  So the designers with a curvy woman literally are suffering a time penalty that the other designers don't have.  And I don't think that's fair.

How many times can I like this concept.    All one size or the other, makes for a level playing field.  On a purely sarcastic side note …. I wonder what Miss Hester would have done if she got a curvy model this time.  What a twit she is.  I almost liked her a couple of weeks ago, but it did not last long.   I thought she looked really nice with her own makeover....she is really quite pretty under that mask she uses to hide behind...meaning her getups.   Draws attention or deflects it, I am not quite sure.

[Ashforth]

20 minutes ago, oceanview said:

How many times can I like this concept.    All one size or the other, makes for a level playing field. 

That is the way it should be in a competition like this.

[oceanview]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 12:28 AM, njbchlover said:

I remember that well, as it was the prom dress challenge, and the "models" were girls from a high school near me.  Christian's model was extremely demanding, and he did what she asked for/wanted, even though he knew it wouldn't work.  She complained during the judging, and he did go back at her.  That dress almost sent him home.  I think that challenge was a learning experience for young Christian - in two different ways - one, in learning how to be diplomatic and deal with clients, and two, how to keep true to yourself while still pleasing your client.

I  remember that one too.  I wanted to smack that young girl because she was so pushy.  If Christian had gone home on that episode, we would have missed out on seeing some beautiful dresses in his collection for  people he has done over the past few years.  He really is talented

[SuprSuprElevated]

Yes, all "curvy" models for a given challenge.  That way, it won't be such a handicap, such a burden.  Right?

[auntlada]

2 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Yes, all "curvy" models for a given challenge.  That way, it won't be such a handicap, such a burden.  Right?

It would make filming the runway even longer than it probably is, and it would making fittings longer, but I'd like to see the designers all have to design something for the same model, and I would like that model to be curvy, plus size, short, older, whatever, just something that makes the model different than the traditional tall, thin, flat-chested, small-hipped model.

[kitmerlot1213]

On 4/25/2019 at 11:50 PM, Angeleyes said:

He uses curvy models in his show and ad campaigns. In fact, his mom and grandma are always models in his shows as well. Plus, he regularly designs for more curvy celebrities. 

I can’t remember if the show mentioned this, but that was Brandon’s partner photographing Brandon and Karlie at the studio. 

I liked that Brandon called out Tessa--a designer needs to know how to dress all women, not just stick figures.  And for someone who isn't a stick figure, Tessa's annoyance at having to deal with working around a woman's breasts and hips rather strange.  Tessa does have a mirror yes?  Shouldn't she want to make gorgeous clothing for women built like her?

And I do kind of enjoy that Tessa had some snarkiness and attitude thrown her way, considering she her many unkind talking heads.  And what was with her sitting and listening to Hester's review?

[Stats Queen]

11 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I liked that Brandon called out Tessa--a designer needs to know how to dress all women, not just stick figures.  And for someone who isn't a stick figure, Tessa's annoyance at having to deal with working around a woman's breasts and hips rather strange.  Tessa does have a mirror yes?  Shouldn't she want to make gorgeous clothing for women built like her?

And I do kind of enjoy that Tessa had some snarkiness and attitude thrown her way, considering she her many unkind talking heads.  And what was with her sitting and listening to Hester's review?

I totally agree and I can’t stand Tessa, but the fact that she she was the second to last and none before her had picked a “plus sized” model says a lot. 

However, that a lot has a lot to do with how the fashion industry really hasn’t progressed as they claim they’ve had. 

To date, NONE of the winning fashions have featured plus sized models.

As so many have said on this forum, the only way to level the playing field is to make every designer design for the same type of model (e.g., short, curvy, short and curvy).

I’m all for that

[SuprSuprElevated]

9 hours ago, Stats Queen said:

As so many have said on this forum, the only way to level the playing field is to make every designer design for the same type of model (e.g., short, curvy, short and curvy).

I suppose you're right, but it still annoys me that in 2019, when we've all known for a long time that the average American woman wears a size north of 14, and this is not a unique statistic to the west, we have to specialize an episode to dress this woman.

Baby steps I guess.  This baby will never get to be an adult at this pace.

Edited May 3, 2019 by SuprSuprElevated

[DaphneCat]

9 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

I suppose you're right, but it still annoys me that in 2019, when we've all known for a long time that the average American woman wears a size north of 14, and this is not a unique statistic to the west, we have to specialize an episode to dress this woman.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point.  Are you suggesting that they should have a season with all "average woman" sized models?  It might be interesting if the outlier episodes were then to do a design for a typical thin model.  

To go with a totally off the wall idea - I would love it if they would have to do a sketch without knowing if they were getting a smaller or larger model.  They would then also be judged on how well they adapted the look for whatever model they got, since I think a LOT of them don't design for the challenge - they design for the model and come up with a reason why their design fits the challenge.