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S05.E11: They Did What?

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PENULTIMATE EPISODE!

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As Bane enacts his final plan for Gotham's destruction, Gordon rallies his former enemies to save the city. Meanwhile, Nyssa al Ghul kidnaps Barbara's newborn daughter with ambitions to raise her as her own. Bruce's decision to leave Gotham points him to his destiny, while devastating Selina.

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Original air date: 4/18/19

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I got a lot to say, but a lot to process.

All I'll say right now is that this felt like a finale without actually being one, and it might have made a wonderful one if we had half the series I had hoped.

I'll have more to say later.

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Barbara lives for the win! I am just glad that Barbara didn't die and Jim and Lee didn't get to raise baby Barbara.

Farewell Bruce! See you in a few years as bad ass Batman. Poor Selina. Make his life hell when he gets back, woman!

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The middle of the episode suffered imo

Monologuing nyssa was a terrible 'final' villain so to speak. Thought the whole fight with babs, jimbo and nyssa was pretty...not good. The bat thing with bane was also kinda cheesy (in the not so good way). My comics knowledge is limited; does bane ever flip out bc of a cloud of bats swarming him? Bc i can't really picture bane of all people doing that. 

Onward to the positives:

  • Thought they definitely must have fixed up bane's voice from last episode. Could actually understand what he said. Nice.
  • Lots of dots being connected: batgirl finally got her name, ozzy's gonna need a monocle, bruce leaves, commissioner jimbo, etc.
  • The bruce/alfred goodbye scene made me tear up.

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-I guess now we see why Selina ends up stealing lots of nice things only mostly the wealthy have, perhaps to remind her of Bruce.  The show never really developed that, so I guess I'll take that guess then

-Despite a disappointing season, I liked this episode.  It honestly should've been the finale because it felt like it.  Next episode is a pilot of a show we won't get to see.

-I'm also glad Barbara wasn't killed off and Jim naming his kid after her cause of that.

-Thank you cast for your tremendous work.  And a special shout-out to David, Camren, Robin, Cory, Sean, and Ben.  I would definitely watch a Batman movie or show with them reprising their roles.

-David and Camren just deserve to be the Bat and the Cat in the future.  The show began with them being the first ones shown, and this one ended with them being the last.

Edited by DR14
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Well, that was...interesting. Like a lot of people around here, I've been at least somewhat disappointed with this season as a whole. This episode did what it needed to do-tie up most of the loose ends and get the characters moving forward to their eventual destination. So, yeah a serviceable episode but a bit of a let-down considering the previews for the final episode.

We'll just have to see what they come up with for the series finale. I'll admit I'm rather psyched to see the entrance of The Dark Knight.

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So, this was almost like the finale for the Gotham we already know, since it looks like the actual finale will be seeing everyone as the iconic characters from the comics.  I guess it makes sense.

Pleasantly surprised that Barbara didn't die and it likely still be a part of her child's life with Jim and Lee.  Of course, I still wonder if something could happen to her in the actual finale.  You never know with this show!

Nyssa and Bane ended up not being all that effective in the end.  Basically just a lot of talk and cockiness, and then get taken out in the most random ways possible.  Of course, both of them are still alive, so there might be more to their story next week.

Oh, Oswald and Nygma!  You two are something special!

Bruce is jetting off to be Batman and I'm guessing his absence will lead to Selina going full-tilt into the criminal aspects of her life.

I guess we'll see how they wrap up this crazy train next week!

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DC, if you are smart enough to be reading this. Take this advice. Give David and Camren five to seven years and you have your perfect Bruce Wayne/Batman and Selina Kyle/Catwoman for the next incarnation in the movies.

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Was Jim drinking “Jankey Piss” whiskey?

Seriously - is there a screen shot out there? I swear the bottle said “Jankey Piss.” No wonder Oswald turned down the drink.

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I'm gonna miss this show.

Seriously, there's Oswald and Ed lamenting their lot in life, basically starting from the very bottom. They wind up pumping themselves up and hug . . . both carrying knives to stab the other in the back. But neither one of them can do it. Truly, they were the best bromance on geek genre TV. Honestly, had they kissed, would you have been shocked at all?

Barbara lives, which is a nice surprise. Of course, something could happen to her in the epilogue, but she seems content in joining Jim and Lee in raising Barbara Lee Gordon. It could have been "Lee Barbara Gordon," but the woman giving birth should get the higher billing. A trio with baggage raising a baby? This is Gotham City. Why the fuck wouldn't it work?!? And Harvey could babysit!

Also in the "Who would've guessed?" category . . . David Mazouz growing into the role of Bruce Wayne. I don't know if he'd be suited to play Batman years from now . . . but since DCEU has been screwing the pooch with Batman (as well as Superman), it's a possibility. And Camren Bicondova made for a good proto-Catwoman. Lots of chemistry between those two.

Five seasons was enough. A shortened final season has worked, and unlike The Gifted, the series goes out under its own terms. Here's hoping the epilogue sticks the landing next week.

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I wasn’t that moved by the whole thing. The big showdown with Bane was a big nothing. Bruce got away from Bane by making bats fly at his face. Okay. He got all dressed up in his armor and didn’t do much with it.

Barbara naming her child (in part) after Lee was a little too big of her. I mean...no. I like a more frenemies vibe between those two. And I thought for sure she would insist her daughter was a Kean after Jim was mostly a dick to her during the pregnancy and questioned if she could be a good mother.

Narrows lady to Lee: You’re not coming? What will we do without you?

Um, how about what you’ve been doing for the last year or so Lee hasn’t been around?

Ed and Oswald were worth the price of admission. But it also highlighted all the wasted potential. Oswald is bitter that every time he tries to help and succeeds at improving things, he never gets any gratitude and Jim Gordon tends to shit all over him. THAT is interesting character development. That explains why he becomes a monster. It also shows the push and pull between him and Jim. Why weren’t they exploring that instead of his dumb dictator phase?

And Ed harboring indifference (at best) to straight up contempt and hatred for all the “normies” who treated him like shit for being nerdy and awkward. Again, THAT is interesting. Not him making out with Lee or just forgetting who he is. Another wasted opportunity. His monologue was the most interesting thing he’s said/done in a long time. And it made his decision to stay interesting - he clearly doesn’t give a shit about the city or the people in it. He was absolutely ready to get on the sub and leave everyone behind. He stayed for Oswald. And speaking of...

They are so much better together rather than running around trying to kill each other. Again, it’s the push-pull of them genuinely caring about each other and neither of them trusting each other fully and wondering if they should stab the other in the back (literally and figuratively) before they find a knife between their own shoulder blades.

Finally - Jankey Piss Whiskey.

Edited by Kostgard
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David and Camren have negative chemistry. That hug at the precinct was so uncomfortable, I cringed. 

The episode was so-so, much like the season. (Much like the series). There were some cool moments - and I loved that Barbara lived! - but taken all together, the misses outnumbered the hits. 

Edited by ursula

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The title of this episode could not be more fitting for this series as a whole. 

It wasn't always good. But it always embraced it's crazy

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Joker vs Batman Forever seems to be replaced "Edwald" vs Batman Forever....

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6 hours ago, Kostgard said:

Barbara naming her child (in part) after Lee was a little too big of her. I mean...no. I like a more frenemies vibe between those two. And I thought for sure she would insist her daughter was a Kean after Jim was mostly a dick to her during the pregnancy and questioned if she could be a good mother.

I completely agree with this. I would have preferred the baby be named, "Barbara Tabitha Kean." But let's face it, Barbara is stuck with those two (not that Jim and Lee's marriage is likely to last very long). However, the baby ties her to Jim forever so she took a step make peace and there is comic canon to be considered.

Honestly, I was just thrilled that they didn't kill off Barbara to give the "worthy" Jim and Lee the baby. Even if Barbara dies in the finale, she will have raised her daughter and influenced who she will become.

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The only surprising thing was that the show didn’t kill Barbara.

This show can be really fun when it’s crazy but it can also be.....wtf when it tries to hard to be serious or pigeon hole into cannon.  

Edited by Chaos Theory

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I'm surprised they didn't kill Barbara. I'm happy for that mostly because I'd rather Batgirl be raised by her and Lee, so we can get a little of both in her. 

That ended a little to quickly and neatly, but with this show anything goes and it answers the question of why people choose to stay in Gotham over the years. They stayed to face a firing squad to save their city. They will stay for anything Gotham throws at them (and I mean actually throwing things at them like buildings and wrecking balls). 

I'm going to be upset that next week will basically be a pilot of a show we won't get to watch the rest of. 

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That almost could've been a series finale but I am still glad we have one more episode left to go.

While both Nyssa and Bane should've been better villains than they were, I'm glad they survived the day.

I am glad that Barbara survived too and the baby was named after all three of her parents. Barbara and Lee had some good moments as well.

There were a lot of great character bits here - Jim/Lee/Barbara, Bruce/Selina, Bruce/Alfred, Edward/Oswald to name to a few of them.

Next week's series finale really does look like the pilot episode of a Batman series we won't get to see play out, 8/10

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It's pretty weird that Jim wouldn't immediately try to check on his newborn baby, the baby's mother and his wife after finding out that Nyssa wanted to kill Barbara. I mean I know he was busy with the bombing of the city but still 

"I won't be party to the murder of civilians General" - at least there's one soldier in Gotham who actually questions his orders!

While Tom Hardy's Bane was better, I still like the voice here much better. I can actually understand what he's saying

Not wanting Gotham to be destroyed is totally in character for Penguin since he always wanted to rule it not destroy it. And Riddler not really caring about the city but showing up for Penguin is beautiful and also in character for him

That's the biggest newborn baby I've ever seen

Lucius giving Brue tech - oh the future is calling! And 'Nightwing'?

"You just have a remarkably recognisable odor" - damnnnn Jim

I love Bruce on the roof with everyone but he's the only without a gun - what was he supposed to do? Just throw smoke bombs?

I like that they reused Jeremiah's bomb from last season - I always appreciate when they remember they still have things from previous stories

Are we supposed to think that not one of these people will think Bruce is Batman in the future? I mean come on!

I love Jaime Murray but I feel like she's playing the same character here that she did in Once Upon A Time - is Nyssa al Ghul really the Black Fairy? But she's got the kind of physicality where I actually believed she could fight like that - she looks great

Great speech about Bruce's parents

I'm guessing Selina is fine now after all that talk of her being different and having cat eyes?

I'm so glad that they showed that Jim couldn't beat Nyssa in hand to hand combat - I was so afraid they would have him beat her in a fight

BatCat fighting Bane together AND bats!

Barbara brought her baby to the front line...and Barbara Lee Gordon?

That stairs moment with Bruce and Selina though...

Penguin and Riddler about to stab each other - this is the scene I would show someone to describe their relationship

How sad is it that only the cops got medals when everyone else in the crowd did a lot too

Commissioner Gordon!

I can't even talk about the Bruce/Alfred scene because I'm in tears

He just wrote a note to Selina and gave it to Harper?!

I have to say that could have been the series finale and I wouldn't have complained!

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I am watching now but already know I am going to miss this batshit crazy show.

The whole Nyssa plot is/was just wrong. And the actress was not good.

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1 hour ago, Enigma X said:

I am watching now but already know I am going to miss this batshit crazy show.

The whole Nyssa plot is/was just wrong. And the actress was not good.

Yeah, I'm really not sure what the point of the whole Nyssa thing was. It was all sort of pointless and terrible. I get that Bruce decided that he needed to leave because people keep targeting him and the city pays the price, but I think they could have achieved the same thing with Jeremiah and it would have been more interesting.

And boy does Selena need to kick him in the shins when she sees him again. A note that he just left for her at the GCPD? Not cool.

8 hours ago, superloislane said:

Penguin and Riddler about to stab each other - this is the scene I would show someone to describe their relationship

That is probably a defining moment for them. There's the antagonism, but they actually love each other too much to really eliminate each other. Doesn't mean they won't be pointing guns at each other a week later.

And second time Ed finished a season holding a knife on someone. This time it went much better than it did with Lee. 

ETA: Ha! I was right about Jim's preferred brand of whiskey!

Edited by Kostgard
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This was a tough one to really rate.

On the one hand, it was a nice practical finale (I'm following the lead of @DR14 and concluding next week will be the pilot of a show we won't be seeing) that tied loose ends, established other things (like why Oswald wears a monocle) and set the characters for the next phase of their lives (the ones in the comics).

On the other hand...given the episodes before it...this finale is kind of...weird? Where next week is a pilot for a series we won't see, this episode feels like the finale of a series we didn't see either. It was merely an episode that hurriedly established things so that the story could move on to the "Batman" phase and acted like it closed the book on a series that was much better and tightly told than what actually transpired.

It felt like a "grand finale" for a show that, well, while having hints of grandiose, never seemed to actually get there. It was a bittersweet close, the kind of close where I sit and think about what the show could have been instead of what it actually was.

There are few shows, I think, that can hint at promising bellwether entertainment, and fewer that actually deliver on that promise. I think of Gotham in this regard as well as Criminal Minds, because both shows hinted they could hit a higher peak than the peak we did get. Sure, everyone's got a favourite episode of Gotham- I know I have my favourites- but it doesn't escape the feeling that Gotham had, in its cards, something better, something more fantastical and something more mind-blowing than what it actually gave us.

...and we watched, waiting for that monumental moment...and it never came.

So, goodbye to all the characters I know and love. Who knows how many of you will still be there next week (I have a feeling, for one, Harvey will be nothing but a plaque on the wall and serve as an "inspiration" for Jim), but you did what you could, and now it's time to move on to the next chapter.

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7 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

On the other hand...given the episodes before it...this finale is kind of...weird? Where next week is a pilot for a series we won't see, this episode feels like the finale of a series we didn't see either. It was merely an episode that hurriedly established things so that the story could move on to the "Batman" phase and acted like it closed the book on a series that was much better and tightly told than what actually transpired.

It felt like a "grand finale" for a show that, well, while having hints of grandiose, never seemed to actually get there. It was a bittersweet close, the kind of close where I sit and think about what the show could have been instead of what it actually was.

I think there was too much overpromising.  The Season 3 finale was the epitome of this.  I didn't really care for the episode itself but it strongly teased a new phase that never ended up happening.

I would be more accepting of Bruce ending his arc by going away to train had the show hinted at it earlier, instead we were promised vigilante Bruce learning to become 'Batman', when in reality that arc lasted five episodes and the writers basically using a time skip to cover themselves, the same happened with Selina too.  She gets the whip but is basically a Sirens tag along who doesn't do much on her own accord.

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Well, my expectations were low given the show's history over the last couple of seasons in particular, and they were essentially met. It felt like it should be over here, without the epilogue, but I guess we'll see if that adds anything. 

My favorite things involve Ed, as always. Particularly Ed and Oswald, those two crazy kids. I liked how much of their last scene involved three of them really - Oswald, Ed and Ed's reflection.

Nyssa bored me and highlighted one of my complaints about these last episodes in general - why are we trotting out new people when you know you're winding down? She didn't give a particularly epic feel to the battles of the last episodes. And Bane - eh. I think Bruce said the device would attract "certain flying mammals" and Selina said "What flying mammals?" and I'm like seriously, I know you never really went to school but come on, there's only one flying mammal.

23 hours ago, superloislane said:

I like that they reused Jeremiah's bomb from last season - I always appreciate when they remember they still have things from previous stories

I always appreciate when they remember they even had previous stories. 

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11 minutes ago, DR14 said:

I would be more accepting of Bruce ending his arc by going away to train had the show hinted at it earlier

Where is the private jet going?? Metropolis????!!!!

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7 hours ago, DR14 said:

I think there was too much overpromising.  The Season 3 finale was the epitome of this.  I didn't really care for the episode itself but it strongly teased a new phase that never ended up happening.

I would be more accepting of Bruce ending his arc by going away to train had the show hinted at it earlier, instead we were promised vigilante Bruce learning to become 'Batman', when in reality that arc lasted five episodes and the writers basically using a time skip to cover themselves, the same happened with Selina too.  She gets the whip but is basically a Sirens tag along who doesn't do much on her own accord.

My main idea for how I would have done Gotham differently involves making the series about Bruce and Selina being a crime-fighting duo that goes deep into the city's underworld and solves the crimes the GCPD either can't or won't solve. As the series progresses, Bruce and Selina conflict because Selina is willing to break the law (because she's the more logical one) while Bruce insists on doing everything "the right way" (because he's the more moral one). The series would end with both of them drifting apart. Commissioner Jim Gordon initially hates them but he comes to grudgingly accept them, especially when Bruce and Selina finally part ways and Gordon realizes Bats needs a new partner.

This could have been something the show could have explored in S4 but, for some reason, they never did. Which is a shame- David Mazouz and Camren Bincondova had marvellous chemistry together and certainly should have had more time to shine together.

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I'm sad to say none of the scenes in this episode moved me at all, not even from the character combos I liked the most (or I guess I should say the character combos I used to like the most).  Jim and Harvey, Jim and Bruce, Bruce and Alfred... the final scenes should have been moving, but they all left me cold. 

I used to really want to see Bruce's journey and that was practically the only thing that interested me for a long time, but I don't know if it's the writing or the acting but this final season, Bruce has become as wooden as everyone else.  The scene with Selena in Wayne Towers should have been moving but it simply wasn't.

As some said above, I feel that the actual character motivation stuff was tacked on at the end, only because a transition was needed to the future we already know.  Penguin and Riddler will turn back into nemeses for the GCPD and Batman, so they have a speech about feeling unappreciated.  Bruce needs to go away for training to become Batman and there needs to be a rift with Selena, so out of the blue in this episode, he feels guilty and finally feels the need to leave Gotham and abandons Selena.   Is Harvey retiring?  They had the entire final season to work with and they barely touched on any of the human aspects of any of the characters.  At this point, they're all just action figures shooting at each other and they've lost all humanity.

As for the big climax, Bane was boring and Nyssa was the same lame-o Black Fairy she played as the parachuted-in final villain of "Once Upon a Time", complete with babynapping and gloating monologues.  And seriously, the army guys (who I assumed were mind-controlled) finally realize that they're killing civilians and fellow law-enforcement and the overpowered Bane doesn't blast everyone away?  It's hard to join in the kumbaya if it's so unbelievable.

Meanwhile, Alfred, one of the key supporting characters, spends 90% of the final episode injured off-screen.  Why would Bruce give the letter addressed to Selena to Harper of all people?  I mean, can they at least write a story that flows naturally?

Overall, this episode was decent as another weekly episode but it just wasn't satisfying as a series ender.  I remember being so disappointed when I heard this final season would only have 12 episodes, but now I realize with sadness that it just didn't matter.  Hopefully, next week, they can bring back some of the spark one last time.

Edited by Camera One
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And they REALLY didn't need to bring in new characters either.  You're already in a bind to try and wrap this thing up in 12 episodes and you bring in folks like Bane and Nyssa?

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1 hour ago, DR14 said:

And they REALLY didn't need to bring in new characters either.  You're already in a bind to try and wrap this thing up in 12 episodes and you bring in folks like Bane and Nyssa?

Yes.  I was trying to figure out what Bane added to the season or Jim's development.  Basically nothing.  What's the point of the two of them having a backstory when it made zero difference?  They could have substituted Bane's role with any other villain or even an anonymous second-in-command.  When characters could be switched in and out with no repercussion, then the story is just generic. 

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23 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Yes.  I was trying to figure out what Bane added to the season or Jim's development.  Basically nothing.  What's the point of the two of them having a backstory when it made zero difference?  They could have substituted Bane's role with any other villain or even an anonymous second-in-command.  When characters could be switched in and out with no repercussion, then the story is just generic. 

Unfortunately it's a problem dating back to mid-Season 2 with the Mr. Freeze arc.  The writers just bringing in Bat-rogues because reasons.

I think they got caught in the trap of thinking in order for this show to be a pre-Batman show they needed to showcase as many Bat-rogue origin stories as possible (with their spin of course), when it would've made more sense to keep the number of Gotham's Bat-rogues small.

In hindsight the main storylines in S1 should've been a series-long theme, with Penguin steadily rising, Riddler slowly losing his **** at the GCPD, and the mob families slowly gaining more control over the city after the Wayne Murders to the point Batman is needed.

Generally in the comics Batman usually deals with the mob first, then the real nutjobs come out of the woodwork.

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On 4/19/2019 at 6:43 AM, superloislane said:

"You just have a remarkably recognisable odor"

Part dandy and part snake!

On 4/20/2019 at 6:32 AM, Etta Place said:

there's only one flying mammal.

Ahem:
rocky_the_flying_squirrel_by_iwannadrawg

On 4/20/2019 at 1:45 PM, Danielg342 said:

My main idea for how I would have done Gotham differently involves making the series about Bruce and Selina being a crime-fighting duo that goes deep into the city's underworld and solves the crimes the GCPD either can't or won't solve. As the series progresses, Bruce and Selina conflict because Selina is willing to break the law (because she's the more logical one) while Bruce insists on doing everything "the right way" (because he's the more moral one). The series would end with both of them drifting apart. Commissioner Jim Gordon initially hates them but he comes to grudgingly accept them, especially when Bruce and Selina finally part ways and Gordon realizes Bats needs a new partner.

Put this together with the Riddler-Penguin frenemies story and it's an absolute hit.

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13 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Put this together with the Riddler-Penguin frenemies story and it's an absolute hit.

Funny, I've been sitting on this story ever since 05.03 (which teased a Bruce/Selina team up)...maybe I should actually finish it.

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On 4/20/2019 at 9:45 PM, Danielg342 said:

My main idea for how I would have done Gotham differently involves making the series about Bruce and Selina being a crime-fighting duo that goes deep into the city's underworld and solves the crimes the GCPD either can't or won't solve.

Your entire post sounds amazing! I would have loved to see that. I would have at least liked to see what they actually stated was going to happen this season - Bruce going undercover with the gangs and dealing with them himself with a side helping of Selina. I thought that would have shown his intelligence and the ability to blend in and figure out criminal plans all by himself. But no....we mostly got Bruce helping out Jim/Selina from time to time and other times not getting to do much at all

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14 hours ago, superloislane said:

Your entire post sounds amazing! I would have loved to see that.

Two upvotes for that story...well, I can't promise to have it written for tomorrow but I won't sit on it any longer.

Edited by Danielg342
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Damn, I was hoping that Lee and Barbara would have hooked up and left old gravely-voiced Gordon out in the cold.  That would have been one awesome sex scene.

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Awwww Ed and Oswald almost stabbed each other, but ended up giving each other a hug! In Gotham, thats basically a friendship bracelet!  

Oh show, I will miss your special brand of crazy. So glad that Barbara survived. Her naming future Batgirl after herself is just such classic Babs. 

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