S03.E16: Don't Take My Sunshine Away

[PepSinger]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

ll, I think people like Beth have bought into the phone company's scare tactics of sales.  She can make it home without one

But why risk that when you can just charge your phone??

Honestly, am I missing something here?

[PepSinger]

15 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Ordinarily I'd be a huge proponent of honoring a commitment unless there's an emergency.  Then I realize that it has been Randall's pattern since childhood that everything in his head is an emergency to him.  We saw that play out in this very episode at the dance.  That situation was only corrected because finally Jack and Rebecca forced him to go back to the dance.  Nothing Beth does every deters Randall from any and every damn thing he is certain is THE most important and emergent situation because he has deemed it thus.

I think this is an excellent point. Everything to Randall is an emergency. If everything is an emergency, then things start to not seem important.

[topanga]

On 3/20/2019 at 8:58 AM, Marci said:

Agreed.  When my husband is an ass, I call him out on it, maybe am angry for a bit, and we move on.  And vice versa.  It’s life.  

On 3/20/2019 at 10:01 AM, JudyObscure said:

Don't think I'm not a feminist, I was a charter member of my local NOW, but for me it was always about equal opportunity, not the sort of, "you got this so now I get that"  thing that Beth and Randall seem locked into.  They just both seem selfish to me.  If neither person gives up their dream then divorce becomes the only answer and that just seems too big a price to pay for most people.

I would hate to see Beth and Randall to get a divorce. I think--correction, I know--it would ruin the show for me and make me stop watching. Number one, despite their arguing and mutual selfishness, I enjoy watching this couple because Beth and Randall have always seemed to love and respect one another--until this episode, that is. Number two: it's rare to see loving, realistic married couples on TV. Couples who fight, stop speaking to each other, but always find their way back to one another. 'Mad About You' is one of the few shows I can think of that fits that mold.

The two of them are in desperate need of marital counseling, although I don't know how in the world they would fit in into their already too-busy schedules. But to echo what other posters have said, Randall has been selfish and inconsiderate for as long as the show has been on the air. But this season, he has become a selfish and inconsiderate asshole, especially to Beth. Beth has her issues as well. I don't think she's as selfish as Randall, but her sudden life-or-death need to teach dance did spring up out of nowhere. But I think her bigger problem is her passive-aggressiveness, as other posters have also mentioned. She doesn't always communicate her feelings to Randall. She was reluctant to foster a child but didn't say it to Randall till they were sitting in the social worker's office, about to make the commitment. Likewise, her face said she was concerned about Randall buying Randall's apartment building or running for City Council in Philadelphia, but she never said anything to him directly until she exploded in anger to demand that he quit the campaign.

[ShadowFacts]

46 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Ordinarily I'd be a huge proponent of honoring a commitment unless there's an emergency.  Then I realize that it has been Randall's pattern since childhood that everything in his head is an emergency to him.  We saw that play out in this very episode at the dance.  That situation was only corrected because finally Jack and Rebecca forced him to go back to the dance.  Nothing Beth does every deters Randall from any and every damn thing he is certain is THE most important and emergent situation because he has deemed it thus.

Yes, that is the problem, it is the result of his tunnel vision about trying to be the guy who does it all.  In this scenario he really needed Beth at the dinner because he is sort of socially inept, and she smooths those situations out.  Which she did, because she showed up.  Late, because of traffic, but she showed up and fit right in.  I think some of the anger at Beth from posters is misplaced a bit, she came through.  She was there.  She did honor the commitment.

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, topanga said:

But I think her bigger problem is her passive-aggressiveness, as other posters have also mentioned. 

And, I think it's a huge problem.  I was so annoyed with her when she went with Randall to the adoption agency, or whatever, and snarked.  Not because I think she should be forced to adopt a child against her will, but because she should never have let it get that far.  I also feel she was passive-aggressive through most of Randall's political campaign.  I have no idea if it would have made any difference in whether or not he ran, I actually suspect the answer to that is no, but she should have spoken up ahead of time.

[theatremouse]

1 hour ago, happykitteh said:

Doesn't Beth have a car charger for her phone? 

Probably, but if she didn't realize she was low when she got in the car and didn't plug it in then, it's a moot point 2 hours later when she's sitting in traffic and it's already dead. She's not going to pull over to plug it in, and trying to plug it in while driving could cause an accident. She needed a wall charger when she got to the house, wanting her phone to be functional before she got back in the car, regardless of whether she has a car charger, or forgot it, or just forgot to plug in before the drive. I think Beth's phone explanations are all entirely plausible.

I also suspect she might have visual voicemail, and wouldn't need to "listen" to the horrible message upon plugging in her phone. She could've read it. It was the last one he left. The notification might've popped up the second she plugged in if she actually unlocked the phone instead of just plugging and walking away without a second look.

[SueB]

On 3/20/2019 at 11:21 AM, Maximona said:

I was very happy to go on hate-watching this show, so I surprised myself by actually liking this episode.

Sure, Randall was an asshole, but I've left messages like that on my husband's voicemail, and he's left messages like that on my voicemail. It's one of the ugly truths about intimate relationships:  Your significant other is generally the safest person to lash out against when everything is going wrong.  And I personally don't know anyone who hasn't taken advantage of that fact from time to time.  Is it a good thing to do?  NO.  But people do it. Obviously, you don't want it to become a frequent dynamic, and if it's anything more than an extremely rare occurrence, the marriage is in Big Trouble.

I also thought the Kate/Toby/baby scenes were pretty well done.  I'm an ER nurse, but occasionally when the hospital is short-staffed, they will float me to the ICN.  And this is indeed the dynamic you see between parents, and between parents and their infants.

Lots of women in their 30s don't want kids. IVF is a $40 billion industry because women in their 40s change their minds.

And this kills me.  

Of course women should be able to change their mind.  But IVF is no guarantee - and the emotional, physical, and financial pain can be quite high.  For many, once they make that decision - it becomes an all-encompassing life goal.  Taking a toll on everyone. So, what kills me is the notion that IVF is a reliable backup plan (not that you were suggesting it -- just that THIS is how it comes across in media.  I was actually glad they showed the difficulties with Kate's pregnancy.  

Not everyone wants to have children.  And Zoe seems pretty comfortable with her choice.  But I think Kevin's decision was made with him in a bad headspace.  I feel he fully is committed to Zoe and believes what he says to her.  And I also think Zoe is right to put that out there -- plus I could see why she's surprised based on what Kevin said before. 

But for this couple - I am worried this is going to bite them. 

[Bringonthedrama]

2 hours ago, happykitteh said:

Seems to me like Beth is doing everything in her power to screw up Randall's job. I think she's jealous he found something he felt passionate about while she was fired from a job she loved. She pouted about him running for office and insisted he drop out when Randall's campaign manager didn't kiss her ass and do things her way. Now she suddenly decides it's HER time to "follow her dream" because she relived a childhood memory? Get over yourself. Let Randall do his councilman thing and when that's over THEN it'll be your turn.

That seems like an odd interpretation of Beth's motives, esp. because he's taken on multiple ... projects ... he "felt passionate about" since the show's pilot, all of which had something to do with his history of being abandoned/adopted, feeling like he didn't fit in with the predominantly white community of his upbringing, and bonding with his terminally ill bio father. If Randall had done volunteer or paid work involving  commitment to politics/community service prior to William's death, I would agree with you about his passion. But it does not seem like a coincidence to me that his passion is to be a councilman in the area where his bio father had lived. This job seems like his attempt to feel important because he's serving people who remind him of William, and a community where he would have fit in had clean/healthy bio parents raised him.  That feeling/wound of being "different" has never left him. 

I got the impression she asked him to drop out because the reality of the demands of the job had started to sink in for her, and he had given her his word about dropping out if things got too difficult. While I think it's unrealistic that Beth went and got a job as a dance teacher immediately after returning from her mother's, this passion of hers is not out of the blue. The last R&B moment of that episode showed that Randall had prior knowledge of her passion. His reaction to her declaration was not "huh?" He was on board with her taking up dancing - until it had the potential for scheduling that was inconvenient to his most recent passion project/job. 

I got the impression (from Beth's lines to her mother) that any jealousy Beth feels is that the Pearsons never discouraged Randall from dreaming and taking chances.  He always expressed passion and desire in life, whereas Beth shut up about it as a young teen after her mom determined she had to be "realistic" within hours after Beth announced she didn't get the dance solo.  She wanted to get back the joy of dance she had given up.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Bringonthedrama

[SueB]

Randal and Beth were crusin for this fight all season,  
1. AGREE - That voicemail was wrong on so many levels - if I was Beth I'd feel betrayed mostly by his disrespect of her job. It makes all his speeches of support feel false.
2. DISAGREE - That this is all on Randall.  Beth's passive/agressiveness for him supporting her job is needling on her part.  Needling that should have been talked about when he said she should defer her life.
3. DISAGREE with their life choice to NOT get a care provider to cover the 3-7 timeframe.  That isn't child abuse for pity's sake.  Most of the parent's job is haul kids from school to an afterschool activity. Yes, there are wonderful moments for the parent/child there.  But now that you are IN a pickle, you get a caregiver as a stop-gap until you can naturally work your way out of the pickle.  And if Randall/Beth didn't have investments they could tap into after working for nearly two decades -- then they are poor planners.  This is a 12-18 month issue.  By then they can adjust their workloads and not be in new jobs.  Neither went for 'problem solving'.  They went for 'perfection' - have the jobs they desire and the quality family life they desire.  And that was no longer viable.  Instead they have two harried and pissed off parents -- like the kids aren't going to notice??  Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.  Their inability to compromise, at least for a year, on getting a few hours a day, three days a week, provider is just ridiculous.  If they can't afford that then they have squandered all their money and neither should have been going for the jobs they did. Both failed in this regard -- they stayed idealists instead of practical.  Got wrapped up in the 'betrayal' of lack of support.  
4. AGREE - Beth heard the message early in the dinner conversation at the latest, possibly before she arrived.

I hope they go to therapy but this is not going to end well.  Like, at all.  

[PepSinger]

47 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

That seems like an odd interpretation of Beth's motives, esp. because he's taken on multiple ... projects ... he "felt passionate about" since the show's pilot, all of which had something to do with his history of being abandoned/adopted, feeling like he didn't fit in with the predominantly white community of his upbringing, and bonding with his terminally ill bio father. If Randall had done volunteer or paid work involving  commitment to politics/community service prior to William's death, I would agree with you about his passion. But it does not seem like a coincidence to me that his passion is to be a councilman in the area where his bio father had lived. This job seems like his attempt to feel important because he's serving people who remind him of William, and a community where he would have fit in had clean/healthy bio parents raised him.  That feeling/wound of being "different" has never left him. 

I got the impression she asked him to drop out because the reality of the demands of the job had started to sink in for her, and he had given her his word about dropping out if things got too difficult. While I think it's unrealistic that Beth went and got a job as a dance teacher immediately after returning from her mother's, this passion of hers is not out of the blue. The last R&B moment of that episode showed that Randall had prior knowledge of her passion. His reaction to her declaration was not "huh?" He was on board with her taking up dancing - until it had the potential for scheduling that was inconvenient to his most recent passion project/job. 

I got the impression (from Beth's lines to her mother) that any jealousy Beth feels is that the Pearsons never discouraged Randall from dreaming and taking chances.  He always expressed passion and desire in life, whereas Beth shut up about it as a young teen after her mom determined she had to be "realistic" within hours after Beth announced she didn't get the dance solo.  She wanted to get back the joy of dance she had given up.

THANK YOU. It’s been Randall’s turn since the pilot.

[NUguy514]

3 hours ago, happykitteh said:

Seems to me like Beth is doing everything in her power to screw up Randall's job. I think she's jealous he found something he felt passionate about while she was fired from a job she loved. She pouted about him running for office and insisted he drop out when Randall's campaign manager didn't kiss her ass and do things her way. Now she suddenly decides it's HER time to "follow her dream" because she relived a childhood memory? Get over yourself. Let Randall do his councilman thing and when that's over THEN it'll be your turn.

No.  None of this.

The facts are that Randall jumped to a wrong conclusion and left a venomous, belittling voicemail for his wife and that Beth did not, in fact, blow Randall off and showed up to the dinner, honoring the commitment she made to him.  Beth is not in the wrong in this particular instance.  Finding reasons for her to be in the wrong is a specious exercise because the facts are what they are.  Much of this bullshit should be chalked up to plot contrivance for the sake of drama, so let's blame the lazy writers for that.

Also, am I on glue, or didn't the hostess actually offer Beth a charger for her phone without Beth's actually asking first?  I feel like she just offered it to Beth, so I cannot possibly comprehend why Beth was so rude as to accept that offer.

[PepSinger]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

t is possible to delay your own dreams for the sake of your children without being bitter and resentful over it. In fact, for some people, The Dream is to raise happy healthy children. Kids don't gain much by growing up with parents who are never home because they're traveling for their dream job or going to college at night while the kids have to stay home alone.  If parents aren't ready to put the needs of their children first for a few years maybe they shouldn't have any.

Wait a second.

Kids seeing their parent go to night classes as adults doesn’t benefit the child? It doesn’t benefit the child to see that education doesn’t have an expiration date? It doesn’t benefit the child to see their parents achieving higher learning? It doesn’t benefit the child to see their parents continue learning in the hopes of getting a promotion or a higher paying job, which would benefit said child? Please explain how seeing a parent going to night classes wouldn’t benefit a child.

Beth and Randall’s kids are not 1, 3, and 5. They’re gonna be alright for a few hours alone. And as someone who was raised by a single mom who most of the time wasn’t available afternoon and some early evenings, I think I turned out okay.

And Beth/Randall *have* put their kids first. I don’t understand this sentiment. Beth worked part time for several years when the kids were younger. Also, please note that I said “tailor your dream” in my last sentence, please.

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I’m at a loss as to why it’s so egregious to ask for a phone to be charged. Then again, maybe I’m just a silly millennial. 

If you are a host, your job is to be accommodating. If you (General you) are put out by someone asking to charge their phone in your home, then you shouldn’t be hosting anyone. JMO.

Really?  A host's job is to do whatever the guests want you to do?  Stop dinner and iron your shirt? Give you a perm? Toss out the pork chops and fix you a steak?  If you aren't willing to accommodate your guests demands you shouldn't be hosting them?  

  I think the guest has a few jobs,  like being on time, and if circumstances make you late then you sit right down at the table and start eating rather than cause further delay by asking for favors. 

I don't own  the essential  phone charger so I guess I'll have to forgo any future dinner parties. I mistakenly thought it was all about providing a nice meal in pleasant surroundings.  I guess I'm just a silly baby boomer.

[GodsBeloved]

6 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

Also, am I on glue, or didn't the hostess actually offer Beth a charger for her phone without Beth's actually asking first?  I feel like she just offered it to Beth, so I cannot possibly comprehend why Beth was so rude as to accept that offer.

Beth asked for the restroom and then a phone charger. Randall said he had one in the car and would give it to Beth later but the hostess said "No problem, we've got them all over the place."

Edited March 21, 2019 by GodsBeloved

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Kids seeing their parent go to night classes as adults doesn’t benefit the child? It doesn’t benefit the child to see that education doesn’t have an expiration date? It doesn’t benefit the child to see their parents achieving higher learning? It doesn’t benefit the child to see their parents continue learning in the hopes of getting a promotion or a higher paying job, which would benefit said child? Please explain how seeing a parent going to night classes wouldn’t benefit a child.

I think the point was it doesn't benefit children to have parents who are never home.  Who never have time to read them a story or a play a game with them.  you cn follow your dreams, but try to shoehorn those kids in there somewhere.

[PepSinger]

4 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

Beth asked for the restroom and then a phone charger.

Honestly, Beth should’ve never asked for the restroom. It required the host to get up from the table and show her where it is. She should’ve just peed on herself during the dinner as to not inconvenience the host since Beth was the one who was late.

Edited March 21, 2019 by PepSinger

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, JudyObscure said:

Really?  A host's job is to do whatever the guests want you to do?  Stop dinner and iron your shirt? Give you a perm? Toss out the pork chops and fix you a steak?  If you aren't willing to accommodate your guests demands you shouldn't be hosting them?  

Plugging in a phone isn't anywhere near the same as ironing a shirt. It's more along the lines of allowing to someone to use your phone to check in with the babysitter or something.  If I had a charger with me, I wouldn't think it was odd to ask if there was someplace I could plug it in.  If I had to ask for one, I probably wouldn't for two reasons.  1, I have an ancient phone and I doubt anyone would be compatible.  2. They might have to look for it. Now, if I knew I had the same phone and I saw the charger not being used, I might ask if they minded if I used it.

Just now, PepSinger said:

Honestly, Beth should’ve never asked for the restroom. It required the host to get up from the table and show her where it is. She should’ve just peed on herself to not inconvenience the host since Beth was the one who was late.

I know (hope) you're kidding, but just to play along, peeing would have been a lot more inconvenient, unless she's going to clearn it up after.

[PepSinger]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I know (hope) you're kidding, but just to play along, peeing would have been a lot more inconvenient, unless she's going to clearn it up after.

Heh. I am most definitely kidding. It took the same amount of effort to show her the restroom as it did to help her charge her phone. 

[JudyObscure]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Plugging in a phone isn't anywhere near the same as ironing a shirt.

No, I wasn't saying it was, but Pepsinger said it was a host's job to be accommodating and I was disagreeing with that notion and giving a few examples of things I don't think a hostess is responsible for.

I'll put it this way.  When I have people for dinner and they don't show up on time, it can be nerve wracking trying to keep that meal hot without drying it out and then finally deciding the moment has come when the whole thing will be ruined if we don't eat right now.  If, then, that late person comes in and causes any further delay at all,* it's sort of adding insult to injury.  It's last straw time and it shows a lack of awareness of what a pain in the ass you've already been.

*Other than going to pee.

Edited March 21, 2019 by JudyObscure

[PepSinger]

2 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

No, I wasn't saying it was, but Pepsinger said it was a host's job to be accommodating and I was disagreeing with that notion.

Your examples were extreme. No one was asking for that. *within reason* asking to charge a phone? *within reason*

Edited March 21, 2019 by PepSinger

[GodsBeloved]

5 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Honestly, Beth should’ve never asked for the restroom. It required the host to get up from the table and show her where it is. She should’ve just peed on herself during the dinner as to not inconvenience the host since Beth was the one who was late.

[Neurochick]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

But, would you say it?  And, I think Beth has shown Randall that it's important to her.

Nothing pays off like restraint of tongue and pen AND voice mail.

And why can't those three girls help out?  They're not babies or toddlers.

[JudyObscure]

11 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Your examples were extreme. No one was asking for that. *within reason* asking to charge a phone? *within reason*

Only you didn't say "within reason," you just said it was her job to be accommodating.

I think the idea of peeing on the floor was kind of extreme myself.  Of course if you think getting that  phone charged is as vital and urgent as peeing when you have to go,  then that's probably the root of why we don't see eye to eye on this.

[ljenkins782]

1 minute ago, JudyObscure said:

Really?  A host's job is to do whatever the guests want you to do?  Stop dinner and iron your shirt? Give you a perm? Toss out the pork chops and fix you a steak?  If you aren't willing to accommodate your guests demands you shouldn't be hosting them?  

  I think the guest has a few jobs,  like being on time, and if circumstances make you late then you sit right down at the table and start eating rather than cause further delay by asking for favors. 

I don't own  the essential  phone charger so I guess I'll have to forgo any future dinner parties. I mistakenly thought it was all about providing a nice meal in pleasant surroundings.  I guess I'm just a silly baby boomer.

I don't think asking for a phone charger so your phone can charge a bit before your lengthy drive home is an enormous inconvenience. Now, if the host didn't have one and Beth asked her to go out and buy one, sure, that would be inconvenient and rude. But it was a small, simple request that I don't think most people would bat an eye at. 

Quote

I think the point was it doesn't benefit children to have parents who are neverhome.  Who never have time to read them a story or a play a game with them.  you cn follow your dreams, but try to shoehorn those kids in there somewhere.

What's really going to hurt those kids is the tension in the house. The atmosphere of their house has changed enormously due to all of the changes and that's going to add unconscious stress. 

It's hard to decide who I blame more, I do think Randall's choice to run for an office for which he's unprepared, in a district far from his home, and which must pay far less than whatever he was making before was a bit shortsighted and selfish. But at the time, Beth was still employed at a good job, right? So they maybe had a bit of wiggle room. 

But when Beth made this hard turn into a low-paying, follow your dreams job, she already knew what Randall would be doing. So as much as she does have a right to follow her own dreams, there are seasons in life, especially when you have children and maybe this wasn't  quite the season for this move. 

Quote

The facts are that Randall jumped to a wrong conclusion and left a venomous, belittling voicemail for his wife and that Beth did not, in fact, blow Randall off and showed up to the dinner, honoring the commitment she made to him.  Beth is not in the wrong in this particular instance.  Finding reasons for her to be in the wrong is a specious exercise because the facts are what they are.  Much of this bullshit should be chalked up to plot contrivance for the sake of drama, so let's blame the lazy writers for that.

The thing about Randall's VM that bothered me is that she's making a very long drive in traffic and not answering her phone, it's not out of the realm of the possibility that she'd been in an accident. I guess she'd mentioned the drinks thing earlier, but still, if I know someone is driving far and I can't reach them, my mind goes right to the worst possible scenario and I can't bring myself to be angry at them until I know they're safe. (I blame this on an episode of Gem I watched as a kid, Jerica yelled at her mom for not letting her go on a plane with her, the plane crashed and thus, her last memory of her mom was a fight. It had a profound effect on young me, lol.) 

Quote

I also thought the Kate/Toby/baby scenes were pretty well done.  I'm an ER nurse, but occasionally when the hospital is short-staffed, they will float me to the ICN.  And this is indeed the dynamic you see between parents, and between parents and their infants.

If you'd told me a few seasons ago that at this point, Kate and Toby would be the most likable characters in an episode, I'd have thought you were crazy, but here we are. 

Kevin is quickly becoming my least favorite and I'm not even 100% sure why. His "charming" routine has just gotten annoying and I disagreed with Zoe that the therapist was charmed by him, she seemed as annoyed as I was.

I'm just not sure what Zoe sees in him. She's gorgeous and has her own kind of lifestyle, I'm not seeing she's doing with an aimless, unemployed (albeit rich) addict who's working through some kind of complicated past family issues. I guess part of it is that the actors don't have a whole lot of onscreen chemistry IMO, so I just don't see what she gets out of the relationship.

[smartymarty]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

And I also think Zoe is right to put that out there -- plus I could see why she's surprised based on what Kevin said before. 

But for this couple - I am worried this is going to bite them.

I'm worried too. Because Kevin made it a choice between being with Zoe or having children with someone else, when he really needed first to decide whether or not he wanted to have children. That's too big of a life decision to make based on an ultimatum (not that she was being mean about it -- I saw her as being very mature about the issue).

I thought he and Sophie had been married and then divorced. (If not, they at least were together a long time.) Wouldn't they have discussed this?

[Neurochick]

59 minutes ago, SueB said:

. DISAGREE - That this is all on Randall.  Beth's passive/agressiveness for him supporting her job is needling on her part.  Needling that should have been talked about when he said she should defer her life.

I forgot to say one thing that really bugged me.   When Randall came to Beth's recital; he didn't make it for the very beginning when Beth was being introduced, and Beth kind of, passively aggressively got upset with Randall because he wasn't THERE when she wanted him to be there, just like she wasn't THERE when he wanted her there.  

To me, Beth and Randall are like two people who worked shitty jobs for about 15 years; and then both of them got the jobs they loved, BUT those jobs had strange hours, and they have kids and don't want to get help because the don't like the idea of "strangers" raising their children.  Something has to give.

[happykitteh]

2 hours ago, theatremouse said:

Probably, but if she didn't realize she was low when she got in the car and didn't plug it in then, it's a moot point 2 hours later when she's sitting in traffic and it's already dead. She's not going to pull over to plug it in, and trying to plug it in while driving could cause an accident.

She could have plugged it in while she was SITTING in traffic at a standstill and not driving. After it was charged up a bit, maybe 5% or10%, she could have sent a short text to Randall explaining her delay when traffic once again came to a standstill.

[smartymarty]

1 hour ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I got the impression she asked him to drop out because the reality of the demands of the job had started to sink in for her, and he had given her his word about dropping out if things got too difficult.

Wasn't it when he was losing by a very large margin, too? So it would have been reasonable to quit then.

Agree that the kids should be doing some chores. I always made my own lunch, first grade on. It doesn't take much talent to spread peanut butter on bread. Also, when you have two working parents, it's not great but often they, you know, get take-out for dinner.

Finally, seems that Beth's low-paying job could cover the also low-paying baby-sitter wages (not some PhD like Randall unreasonably wants -- do people with PhD's baby-sit anyway?). I worked with a newspaper editor whose entire salary went to daycare. Not delaying her career, where her salary would grow with experience while the daycare cost would end once the baby started school, was a smart decision.

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

It's hard to decide who I blame more, I do think Randall's choice to run for an office for which he's unprepared, in a district far from his home, and which must pay far less than whatever he was making before was a bit shortsighted and selfish. But at the time, Beth was still employed at a good job, right? So they maybe had a bit of wiggle room. 

But when Beth made this hard turn into a low-paying, follow your dreams job, she already knew what Randall would be doing. So as much as she does have a right to follow her own dreams, there are seasons in life, especially when you have children and maybe this wasn't  quite the season for this move. 

IIRC, Beth told Randall that she had lost her job the same night he said he was running for office.  He told her first, because even thugh she was acting upset, he didn't think to ask her what was wrong. Just plowed on with his big news.

14 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

The thing about Randall's VM that bothered me is that she's making a very long drive in traffic and not answering her phone, it's not out of the realm of the possibility that she'd been in an accident. I guess she'd mentioned the drinks thing earlier, but still, if I know someone is driving far and I can't reach them, my mind goes right to the worst possible scenario and I can't bring myself to be angry at them until I know they're safe. (I blame this on an episode of Gem I watched as a kid, Jerica yelled at her mom for not letting her go on a plane with her, the plane crashed and thus, her last memory of her mom was a fight. It had a profound effect on young me, lol.) 

That's what I was thinking.  If an otherwise reliable person is late, my first thought isn't that they're blowing me off, but maybe accident.  I would have called her cell phone and left a "where are you" message and then started calling hospitals.

1 minute ago, smartymarty said:

do people with PhD's baby-sit anyway?).

People working toward one might.

[Neurochick]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

That's what I was thinking.  If an otherwise reliable person is late, my first thought isn't that they're blowing me off, but maybe accident.  I would have called her cell phone and left a "where are you" message and then started calling hospitals.

And that's why I go back and forth with both of them.  I think both of them are in the wrong.  Beth got upset when Randall wasn't there when she was being introduced (?).  I was like, really Beth, so what he wasn't there for the fucking introduction.  I didn't even remember what the woman said.  But to Beth, it was about her, she wanted Randall to hear what the woman had to say about her, because remember, she wasn't the best dancer and her mother made her give it up.  "See, mom I'm DANCING."

I agree with who it was that said Randall sitting in his car watching people go into the house was like Randall has always felt, on the outside looking in, not being a part of.  That was why he left the ugly voice mail for Beth, "why aren't you here making me feel a part of?"  Another person would have gone into the house alone and said, "I'm sorry, my wife is late, I'm a bit worried."  People probably would have been sympathetic (What a caring husband!)  Randall made it about him, just like Beth.

They both need therapy.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 3/20/2019 at 11:21 AM, Maximona said:

Lots of women in their 30s don't want kids. IVF is a $40 billion industry because women in their 40s change their minds.

I think you're making a lot of assumptions here with absolutely no evidence to back it up.  You don't know what go through women's minds.  What about infertility?  What about sterility? What about people who meet the love of their live at 40 or later?  It definitely happens, I know people who it has happened to.  I've always wanted kids and I haven't had the opportunity.   I don't think you're being very fair.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 3/21/2019 at 1:50 PM, SueB said:

Randal and Beth were crusin for this fight all season,  
1. AGREE - That voicemail was wrong on so many levels - if I was Beth I'd feel betrayed mostly by his disrespect of her job. It makes all his speeches of support feel false.

Oh yeah.  Randall makes a lot of annoying speeches about how great Beth is.  Why are they annoying?  Because they've always felt so over the top and fake, and now we know that they really are.  After that voicemail, I'd be like ew, who am I even married to?  The word I'm looking for is something like sycophantic or ingratiating or obsequious (thank you dictionary.com.)

Edited March 23, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, PepSinger said:

If you are a host, your job is to be accommodating. If you (General you) are put out by someone asking to charge their phone in your home, then you shouldn’t be hosting anyone. JMO.

I think it's just the new normal.  I'm definitely not someone who is always glued to their phone, but I have to have a charger in my bedroom, my living room, and at my work office.  It's just the way things are.  My brother hosts a LOT of parties, and he has wall chargers everywhere for us.  It's just something we have to accept now.  Nobody's staring at their phone through a party or at work, but unfortunately the battery drains no matter what.  It's also the new normal that when someone's battery dies and we can't reach them, we assume the worst (well I know I do, and some people close to me do.)  Which is kind of silly, but everyone's always near their phone and we expect an answer.  You kind of have to triple that with Beth  being a mother of 3 kids.  I agree that Beth's request was VERY abrupt when she first walked in, but I try to set aside issues of tone and concentrate on the message.  She was obviously just desperate to get her phone charged.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[happykitteh]

35 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Oh yeah.  Randall makes a lot of annoying speeches about how great Beth is.  Why are they annoying?  Because they've always felt so over the top and fake, and now we know that they really are.  I'd be like ew, who am I even married to?  The word I'm looking for is something like sycophantic or ingratiating or obsequious (thank you dictionary.com.)

Agreed. The word I think of is condescending. When Randall goes into his over the top compliments he always sound like he's speaking in a condescending manner to Beth.

[bybrandy]

8 hours ago, Katy M said:

That's what I'm not understanding.  If I had got that message, I just wouldn't have showed up.  Or, I would have showed up and played that message for everyone else to hear and turned around and walked out, which I admit would be really childish, but he did tell her to grow up after all.  

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

It is possible to delay your own dreams for the sake of your children without being bitter and resentful over it. In fact, for some people, The Dream is to raise happy healthy children. Kids don't gain much by growing up with parents who are never home because they're traveling for their dream job or going to college at night while the kids have to stay home alone.  If parents aren't ready to put the needs of their children first for a few years maybe they shouldn't have any.

How do you know  My mom traveled for work.  Sometimes she traveled a lot.  However, when she was home she was super at home.  You only bothered my mom at work for a genuine emergency and in turn only genuine emergencies were allowed to bother her at home.  Her work afforded me a good education, foreign travel, access to lessons to explore my interests and passions.   Was my mom's schedule the same as the moms who worked less?  No.  Did I see my mom as much?  Probably not.  But my mom had a big career and was a very, very giving mother.  She has raised children who also had big careers and whose children are interesting and intelligent and loving and well adjusted.  Just because you are busy a few nights a week with your own career does not in any way mean that your children aren't getting anything from you.

And my very, very good friend's husband is just graduating after  going to school at night.  His kids have all talked about how seeing him work so hard to do well in school.  His kids have talked about how they would sit down after dinner with their homework at the same time he did and they studied harder because if Dad was doing his homework after a full day of work and classes surely they could.   They are all so incredibly proud of him.  And they are 11 and older and very, very, very much doing football and basketball and cheer and chess club during the hours dad is at school anyway.   

Just because a family's quality time isn't the same as traditional family time doesn't make it more or less valid.  

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, every time Randall called, it seemed to go straight to voicemail. That's why I believe her phone was dead and that's why I think she only got the message once she started charging her phone at the dinner party.

I turned it off because it interfered with an always on app that I need.   But my phone defaulted to a setting for a bit that if you were going above a certain MPH the phone would't let through calls or voicemails until you were stopped.  If a call came in from the same number twice in 2 minutes they let it through immediately.  Otherwise when you stopped (IE you hit the traffic jam) all your messages were available.   I don't know that is the situation with Beth but that would explain both her phone going directly to voicemail and her picking up the message before she got there.  

As to why she'd go to the party after hearing the message.  I mean she'd already come so far.  And it was important to Randall.  She didn't cause a scene at dinner because she doesn't think his career is worthless.  She waited until they were in a private place to tell him she'd heard the message.   

And seriously, I have phone chargers literally all over my house.  If I was getting up to show my guest to the restroom/make her a plate of food/ showing her a charger?  Would literally take me half an extra second.   I would not find that request even a little bit rude.  I find it a little more rude when house guests unplug my phone to plug theirs in without telling me.  But if they ask for a charger?   It is no trouble at all.   

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think it's just the new normal.  I'm definitely not someone who is always glued to their phone, but I have to have a charger in my bedroom, my living room, and at my work office.  It's just the way things are.  My brother hosts a LOT of parties, and he has wall chargers everywhere for us.  It's just something we have to accept now.  Nobody's staring at their phone through a party or at work, but unfortunately the battery drains no matter what.  It's also the new normal that when someone's battery dies and we can't reach them, we assume the worst (well I know I do, and some people close to me do.)  Which is kind of silly, but everyone's always near their phone and we expect an answer.  You kind of have to triple that with Beth  being a mother of 3 kids.  I agree that Beth's request was VERY abrupt when she first walked in, but I try to set aside issues of tone and concentrate on the message.  She was obviously just desperate to get her phone charged.

Very true.  It is the new normal.  I first got a mobile phone in 1999 and back then they were more back up phones, most people still had land lines.  Today, most people I know don't have land lines anymore; their mobile phone is their only phone and it needs to be charged.  

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Oh yeah.  Randall makes a lot of annoying speeches about how great Beth is.  Why are they annoying?  Because they've always felt so over the top and fake, and now we know that they really are.

How do we know they are fake?  Because Randall got angry?  Someone on this board commented how they too have left unkind messages, and it's also been done to them.  But does that mean the relationship is fake because someone says something unkind?  I also think some folks are uncomfortable with praise.  

[nlkm9]

20 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I agree, but sometimes this happens when change happens in life;  it's also the reason for self restraint; and like they say in AA "nothing pays off like restraint of tongue and pen."  Randall should have told the people, "My wife teaches ballet."  That would have been a great conversation.  And Randall, when Beth didn't answer her phone, the first thing I thought of was, "she's probably driving."

But the main problem with Beth and Randall is that neither one of them wanted the other one to take the job they have.  Both of them need to understand that to the other one, their job IS important.

Kevin needs to stay sober for awhile before he decides what he wants in life, kids or no kids.  I remember on "Sex and the City" when Charlotte was married to a very wealthy man with an overbearing mother.  They couldn't have kids together and his mother didn't want them to adopt; but Charlotte really wanted children.  Her husband said something to her like, "it's not enough for it to be just us?" and Charlotte said no.  Neither person was wrong, they just wanted different things.

I didn't mind seeing Toby in the hospital because we're only seeing him when he's there.  

Young Rebecca really looked like Mandy Moore.

ETA:  Here's how I feel; though I don't always like Beth, historically women have been the ones who sacrificed for others so they could be okay.  It upset me when Randall told Beth to "grow the hell up" as if Beth is a child and Randall is her father.  I wonder though if Beth has ever told Randall just what dance means to her.

well said--all of it!!

[Ohmo]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

t is possible to delay your own dreams for the sake of your children without being bitter and resentful over it. In fact, for some people, The Dream is to raise happy healthy children. Kids don't gain much by growing up with parents who are never home because they're traveling for their dream job or going to college at night while the kids have to stay home alone.  If parents aren't ready to put the needs of their children first for a few years maybe they shouldn't have any.

Which dovetails with the Zoe/Kevin storyline. Zoe wants to live her life the way she wants and when she wants, so that is why she has chosen not to have children.

[Tikichick]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

No, I wasn't saying it was, but Pepsinger said it was a host's job to be accommodating and I was disagreeing with that notion and giving a few examples of things I don't think a hostess is responsible for.

I'll put it this way.  When I have people for dinner and they don't show up on time, it can be nerve wracking trying to keep that meal hot without drying it out and then finally deciding the moment has come when the whole thing will be ruined if we don't eat right now.  If, then, that late person comes in and causes any further delay at all,* it's sort of adding insult to injury.  It's last straw time and it shows a lack of awareness of what a pain in the ass you've already been.

*Other than going to pee.

The late person in this case also was unavoidably late by circumstances beyond her control -- and was unable to alert the hostess because her phone was dead.

I'll take Beth at her word that she was seriously delayed by an accident.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Tikichick

[Katy M]

26 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

How do we know they are fake?  Because Randall got angry?  Someone on this board commented how they too have left unkind messages, and it's also been done to them.  But does that mean the relationship is fake because someone says something unkind?  I also think some folks are uncomfortable with praise.  

If they're not fake, they're at most just noise.  He says he'll support her dance teacher dream and then the very next day, or close to, he tells her she has to put it on hold.  Another time he gives her a big speech about how all the people that she's interviewing with will be begging her to work for them.  Then five minutes later something comes up and he tells her she has to pick up the slack with the kids that day.

[Cowgirl]

It was driving me crazy wondering from where I  knew the actress who played the doctor or nurse drawing the baby's blood. I looked on IMDB and she wasn't listed.  It wasn't until I woke up the next morning that it popped into my head that it was Kirsten Nelson, who played the chief of police on Psych.  *Whew!*

[Tikichick]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I forgot to say one thing that really bugged me.   When Randall came to Beth's recital; he didn't make it for the very beginning when Beth was being introduced, and Beth kind of, passively aggressively got upset with Randall because he wasn't THERE when she wanted him to be there, just like she wasn't THERE when he wanted her there.  

To me, Beth and Randall are like two people who worked shitty jobs for about 15 years; and then both of them got the jobs they loved, BUT those jobs had strange hours, and they have kids and don't want to get help because the don't like the idea of "strangers" raising their children.  Something has to give.

It's not really that they didn't want strangers raising the girls.  They only need someone for brief gaps when their schedules won't mesh.  Randall created a construct where they don't just need a responsible person on hand for the girls, they need someone who is practically perfect in every way.  That comes with a commensurate pricetag, one their current budget doesn't allow.  Effectively Randall has spun the situation in a way that effectively cockblocks Beth from pursuing the dance career because he's decided Deja and Tess' situations are too fragile to withstand an hour or two with a responsible high school or college student maybe two days after school a week.  They were set on getting someone to be there with the girls until Randall unilaterally decided their situation required something that just happened to cost more than Beth's new income level.  

Jack and Rebecca's valiant attempt to raise their kids, Randall in particular, left Randall with a big ole blindspot when he gets an idea that something "should be" done a certain way.  Rebecca's uneasiness over her initial problems bonding with infant Randall drove her in particular to take this to obsessive levels of indulgence when it came to Randall.  If Randall expressed a want or a need it became a priority.  Somehow the time, the money, the attention, whatever it was was found to make it happen.  We've seen enough flashbacks to see where Kevin was frequently shunted to the side to make sure the path for Randall was cleared.  Adult Randall has a vision problem because of it.

He was raised to be nice, to be considerate, to be kind, and he was and he is.  He was all for Beth's return to dance.  When it conflicts with whatever he feels is actually important, he cannot even see that it blots out her priorities -- and he can't see why her priorities shouldn't be ultimately subservient to more important priorities -- which just so happen to align with his priorities.   Coincidentally it's never the case where one of Randall's priorities should take a backseat -- of course not, Randall's priorities are always really important.     

Edited March 21, 2019 by Tikichick

[Trillian]

3 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

No.  None of this.

The facts are that Randall jumped to a wrong conclusion and left a venomous, belittling voicemail for his wife and that Beth did not, in fact, blow Randall off and showed up to the dinner, honoring the commitment she made to him.  Beth is not in the wrong in this particular instance.  Finding reasons for her to be in the wrong is a specious exercise because the facts are what they are.  Much of this bullshit should be chalked up to plot contrivance for the sake of drama, so let's blame the lazy writers for that.

Also, am I on glue, or didn't the hostess actually offer Beth a charger for her phone without Beth's actually asking first?  I feel like she just offered it to Beth, so I cannot possibly comprehend why Beth was so rude as to accept that offer.

3 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

3 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Also, am I on glue, or didn't the hostess actually offer Beth a charger for her phone without Beth's actually asking first?  I feel like she just offered it to Beth, so I cannot possibly comprehend why Beth was so rude as to accept that offer.

Thank you!  That was how I remembered it too and I was disturbed by the allegations of Beth’s rudeness. While I don’t necessarily agree that politely asking if the hostess has a compatible phone charger is rude, I can’t see how accepting an offer of one is rude. 

6 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I’m at a loss as to why it’s so egregious to ask for a phone to be charged. Then again, maybe I’m just a silly millennial. 

If you are a host, your job is to be accommodating. If you (General you) are put out by someone asking to charge their phone in your home, then you shouldn’t be hosting anyone. JMO.

And, in my own humble opinion, I agree.  Your guest shows up late, having been caught in traffic for hours and with a dead phone, you accommodate her, get her a plate and offer her a charger if you have one handy.  I agree that, if you can’t do this, don’t host .  Mrs Purple Cheesecake did nothing wrong 8n this respect, and neither did Beth  

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, bybrandy said:

How do you know  My mom traveled for work. 

I don't know anything at all about your mother.  I've been talking about Beth and Randall and occasionally about parenting in general, but never about your mother.  It's great that she had a big career and you had a great childhood. 

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

The late person in this case also was unavoidably late by circumstances beyond her control -- and was unable to alert the hostess because her phone was dead.

I'll take Beth at her word that she was seriously delayed by an accident.

 I take her at her word, too, and don't blame her for being late.  I never said I thought she was rude for being late, and I don't think it would have been any help to her hostess if Beth had been able to tell her she was going to be late, the pork chops would have been just as dry.  What I thought was rude was not being late, but asking for a charger.  That was a circumstance within her control.  I would have thought she was rude if she had asked for a napkin.  It would have been very easy for her hostess to go get her a napkin.  The point wasn't how hard a thing was, but that, purposely or not, Beth had already been a lot of extra trouble for her hostess and it wasn't a good moment to be asking favors, even teeny tiny ones.  It was a good time to sit down and eat and forget her damn phone until after the meal.

4 hours ago, GodsBeloved said:

Beth asked for the restroom and then a phone charger. Randall said he had one in the car and would give it to Beth later but the hostess said "No problem, we've got them all over the place."

And, in my own humble opinion, I agree.  Your guest shows up late, having been caught in traffic for hours and with a dead phone, you accommodate her, get her a plate and offer her a charger if you have one handy.  I agree that, if you can’t do this, don’t host .

 

  She was a nice hostess, but Beth did ask for a phone charger before it was offered.  I would have done the same thing the hostess did if I had a charger.

 I just told my husband that some people think we can't have people for dinner anymore because we don't have phone chargers.  He wants to know if we can still have barbeques this summer?

Edited March 21, 2019 by JudyObscure

[sunshine23]

On 3/20/2019 at 10:41 AM, preeya said:

Question for the medical experts.  No attempt at being morbid, just asking.

Can a baby be born that early and that small realistically survive?

I was born 9 weeks early 55 years ago at 3 lbs., 14 oz. I spent a month in the hospital but did just fine. Recently a relative was born at 13oz and although the baby spent many months in the hospital, the baby is now thriving with no indication of health issues due to being premature. Medicine has come a long way, but ultimately it depends on whether the baby is born past a gestational milestone.

[JudyObscure]

9 minutes ago, sunshine23 said:

 55 years ago

Do you have phone chargers all over your house?  Do you think it's wrong to entertain if you don't?  Do your parents have them?  Do they host?

[Empress1]

7 hours ago, topanga said:

Number two: it's rare to see loving, realistic married couples on TV. Couples who fight, stop speaking to each other, but always find their way back to one another. 'Mad About You' is one of the few shows I can think of that fits that mold.

Friday Night Lights was one. Eric and Tami Taylor loved, liked, and respected each other. They had some big fights but they always came together. Actually, their big fights were similar to Beth and Randall's - Eric's career had always come first, I don't think Tami worked, and then she started working and her career took off as he got some big opportunities too. So they were in a place of, should we do what we've always done and put you first, or should we do things differently?

I am Team It's OK to Ask Your Host for a Phone Charger. It might be a generational thing. I liken it to asking to use someone's phone to check in with the babysitter, in the days of land lines. (I don't personally know anyone who doesn't have a phone charger in their car, especially someone with kids who need to be checked on, but the show said what it said.)

Quote

Randal and Beth's girls are old enough to be home alone for the 1 hour between parents coming and going,  Deja and Tess are old enough to help with dinner and they are definitely old enough to be doing the dishes!!!  Why does Randal have to come home and do dishes when there are 3 kids in the house!

That scene with one of the parents giving 13-year-old Deja her clean laundry was baffling to me. Deja and Tess are old enough to do at LEAST their own laundry, and they could do the family's laundry too. (I had a friend who, as an adult, sends out his laundry because his chore growing up was laundry for his whole family and he's sick of laundry.) My mother taught me to do my laundry when I was 10 and she has done it exactly one time since, and it's because I'd just had surgery. Randall doing dishes was like ... really? All three kids are old enough to load a dishwasher. Tess and Deja are old enough to cook or at LEAST heat up meals and get their own lunches together. All the members of that family should be helping to run the household at this point. The two older girls could even help Annie with her homework. I helped my brother with his homework. Even if Beth or Randall were a SAHP, they should teach the kids to do chores because those are life skills.

Quote

I've known since I was 8 I didn't want kids. Everyone told me I'd change my  mind. All these decades later: nope. Never  for a second wanted them. Never wavered, never doubted, never wondered. I wasn't abused, I'm not super ambitious with a 70 hour work week, I don't have any specific, dramatic reason for not being interested in having children. Just don't. So yeah, Kevin just assuming everyone wants kids cuz it's what people do, and that Zoe not wanting them probably has something to do with her abuse is a little annoying to me too. Some of the things I've heard and the looks I've gotten when I say I never wanted kids are ridiculous. It'd be nice for it to be seen, on TV and in real life, as simply one more valid choice in life.

One of my best friends has never wanted kids. I've known her since high school and she was clear then. She's never faltered. She's married; they don't have kids. (People kept asking her "What if you meet a man who wants kids? What will you do?" And she'd be like " ... Not marry him, because we'd be fundamentally incompatible.") She had a pretty idyllic childhood and while she works, her career is pretty family-friendly. She just doesn't want kids, so she doesn't have any. It's that simple. She has a full, good life - it's the life she wants. It's a pet peeve of mine when people assume women who don't want kids (because men who don't want kids rarely get this shit) are damaged somehow (although I will say, I think given what Kevin knows about Zoe's past, I think that was a fair question). I liked when Zoe was like "Nope, just don't."

Nice to see Eddie Kaye Thomas as the other father in the NICU. I can't remember the last thing I saw him in - it really might have been the American Pie franchise.

[Jax7917]

I wonder if Sophie would have stuck around as Kevin’s main love interest had more people warmed up to her character . I think they would have been a cute story to continue , especially given how corny the show is with fairy tales and how he’s loved her since he met her .. but I think the actress is what threw more people off than the character . She wasn’t bad , but was just kinda bland on screen and didn’t make people feel anything . Had it been a different actress , I think the writers would have kept them together .. but from what I remember no one really cared for her . I also feel that it’s unrealistic that Kevin chased her down to win her back because she was the one that got away , and left her again in a shitty way without even caring that he lost her again . Did he even ever feel badly about that ? Especially because they’ve been best friends forever / in a relationship / and were married .

im sorry guys , but I’m more team Randall than Beth with this one . Yes , the voicemail was brutal and he deserved a smack down for that ... but he told her how important it was for her to be at the dinner with him and she made a commitment to go . Then because she gets invited to a work outing the next day , she cancels on Randall after he already told the guy that they would both be there . I have to say , I was surprised to read on this board how many people thought Beth was in the right for this . If roles were reversed and Randall made a commitment and then canceled on Beth , I feel like people would still be blaming Randall . And then her getting mad that he wasn’t there for a 2 second speech someone said about her ? After his busy day , he made it and saw the whole recital . I know I’m in the minority , but Beth grinds my gears . Not just this episode , but most of them . 

Edited March 22, 2019 by Jaclyn88

[JudyObscure]

I just did a search to see what Miss Manners says about chargers.  She says guests should bring their own chargers the way they bring their own toothbrushes, but she's old, so I don't trust her to have kept up.

I think this guy's probably more up to date.: about chargers all intended for hosts to provide for their guests.  Like the ones that run under the couch so you can have chargers at both ends and in the middle of the couch in case,  heaven forbid, someone sitting in the middle can't reach.  And that tower for larger groups?  Awesome. 

As Dr. Phil might say this has been a changing day in my life.  I couldn't be more surprised if you guys had told me I should be providing a gas pump in the front yard for my next party so everyone can fill up their tanks before leaving.

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

 

  She was a nice hostess, but Beth did ask for a phone charger before it was offered.  I would have done the same thing the hostess did if I had a charger.

 I just told my husband that some people think we can't have people for dinner anymore because we don't have phone chargers.  He wants to know if we can still have barbeques this summer?

If you don't have a charger, you just say you don't have a charger.  Like I said earlier, I have an ancient phone and I don't think my charger is compatible with anyone I know.  It doesn't mean I can't have guests.  If they need to charge their phone, they're out of luck.