S03.E13: Chapter Forty-Eight: Requiem For A Welterweight

[Bort]

Quote

As Veronica attempts to steer Hiram away from the drug business, Gladys's return to Riverdale throws a wrench into her plan. Betty grows concerned when Alice decides to take her commitment with The Farm to the next level. Elsewhere, Archie's rush to get into the boxing ring lands him in hot water, while Cheryl's attempt to send the Serpents a message causes tension between her and Toni.

Airdate: Wednesday, February 27, 2019

[WhosThatGirl]

11 minutes ago, MollyWebber said:

I love Jochie. I love Bughead. I used to love Toni before they made her Cheryl's bitch. Not sure why she thinks she deserves to be Queen just because she's Legacy. Aren't all of those kids Legacy? Even Betty is fucken Legacy plus she saved their King FP multiple times before Jughead took over. Jughead also practically died for them? LMAO with her nonsense.

I have no idea what they're doing with the Lodges but they're quickly turning Veronica into one of my least favorite characters this season. She's become a dramatically boring moron.

Did I mention I love Archie with Josie? Because I love Archie with Josie. 

Yeah,  at least Bughead had a scene and Archie and Josie are cute. Aside from that I really disliked everything this episode. Also Kevin is back to being the worst friend ever. It’s odd people like him. He’s an awful friend. I get he goes through things too but he is always willing to throw in his so called best friend Betty whenever he needs to isn’t he?

Choni is awful.

Alice is the worst. 

Gladys sucks too.

Ugh. I’m really worried for Betty actually.

Edited February 28, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[Advance35]

Calling it now, something TERRIBLE is going to happen to Hermione or Veronica.  I don't know what, but gut feeling says it is going to be VERY ugly.  I can't decide whom the perpetrator will be, Gladys or Hiram himself.

This episode just serves to remind me that Veronica really is an outsider/alone.  It doesn't look like anyone is going to go easy on her this time.

On the bright side, I think I loved every wardrobe choice for Hermione and Veronica this episode.

The rest....Meh.

I don't care about Cheryl or Jughead.

I'm not overly fond of guys with Scars so Archie isn't as hot anymore.  Yawn.

Josie is as tedious as ever.

And Riverdale again, doesn't trend as high or as long as it has been in the past.  Following in the footsteps of Glee.

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

Calling it now, something TERRIBLE is going to happen to Hermione or Veronica.  I don't know what, but gut feeling says it is going to be VERY ugly.  I can't decide whom the perpetrator will be, Gladys or Hiram himself.

This episode just serves to remind me that Veronica really is an outsider/alone.  It doesn't look like anyone is going to go easy on her this time.

On the bright side, I think I loved every wardrobe choice for Hermione and Veronica this episode.

The rest....Meh.

I don't care about Cheryl or Jughead.

I'm not overly fond of guys with Scars so Archie isn't as hot anymore.  Yawn.

Josie is as tedious as ever.

And Riverdale again, doesn't trend as high or as long as it has been in the past.  Following in the footsteps of Glee.

I wonder if Hiram going to make veronica  sell Pops/The Speakeasy to him? He did tell her she owed him 75 thousand dollars and lately she’s been complaining about the lack of money she makes from it for the most part. Hiram taking it over would possibly make him more money from it and I bet he would love to shove that in her face.

Edited February 28, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[Lady Calypso]

Yes, Toni, because telling your girlfriend that you're the boss is going to stick. Seriously, we all know Cheryl will only agree until it inconveniences her and she goes against Toni's wishes again. 

Yeah, the Lodges are going to implode at some point, and it might actually be fun to watch. Instead of Hiram's rivalry against Archie, it looks like he's replacing that with his family. Veronica's definitely in her own story here with her family, but...I mean, she did help to isolate herself. And she kind of has Reggie, when he's in an episode. But Veronica hasn't been so great this season, so I can't say I'll be surprised when things blow up for her. 

I can't say I care much about the Jones', since it's just the same reiteration of the Lodges right now. Mob family vs mob family. I wonder who will win. Spoiler: I bet it's the Jones' so that the Lodges are at the bottom for a bit. But we'll see how that plays out.

Josie/Archie are fantastic. They've really sold me on them, even if it's short term. As much as I'm annoyed by the million different plots that separate the characters, at least Archie's getting some happy times. I mean, he almost got killed yet again, but that's Riverdale, I guess. I also loved how they actually got Papa Keller in on an actual storyline. That's a rarity.

In Kevin's short appearance, he managed to piss me off. I really loathe when this show writes for their own plot, rather than character. Kevin would normally be on Betty's side but because they needed plot reasons for Betty to be alone, this is how they did it. 

Yes, I know that cults like The Farm exist and this crazy stuff can happen. It doesn't mean I'm not utterly annoyed with how stupid everyone but Betty is. 

Everyone is so separated from everyone else that it's hard to imagine these people as friends. Archie was in jail, and then on the run, for months and his friends don't seem to give a shit now that he's back. They cared for, like, a minute and then moved on. Betty's dealing with The Farm on her own because Veronica and Jughead are too wrapped up in their family dramas. 

[tennisgurl]

This is most weirdly pro gangland violence teen drama ever. And I continue to be amazed that such a small town can sustain so many gangs/cults/criminal organizations/conspiracies for such a long period of time!

Not as good as the last episode, although there were some parts I liked. I actually like Josie and Archie a lot more than I expected to, even if it still feels kinda random and certainly wont be endgame. And most of their plot was alright, certainly better than a lot of what they've gotten (Archie gets high level drama, Josie gets nothing) lately, so I will take it. Even Papa Keller got a decent subplot! By the way, hows he doing after all that drama with his former BFF scarring the shit out of his son and kidnapping him?

Betty, maybe its time to cut your losses and have Fred adopt you? I mean, Alice has always been an asshole, just different flavors of asshole, and this time, she has "crazy cult lady who commits her daughter to evil nuns" going on. Betty is a much nicer person than many others would be, running off to save her from her own bad life choices after what she pulled, which Betty seems to have forgotten about. She is still her mom, so I guess I get it, but if Polly and Alice ever come to their kind of senses, they better give Betty a BIG cake or something. 

My God, the operatic music when Alice was getting drowned! It was so much...everything, even by this shows ridiculous standards! 

So Cheryl is starting her own little militia with her girl gang, even if it was supposedly a gift to Toni. Yeah, not a shocker. And what exactly do the Serpents stand for or mean or whatever everyone talks about anyway? They always talk about it, but has anyone defined it, beyond that whole thing about them being the remnants of a destroyed Native American tribe of motorcycle bikers or something? 

No wonder Jughead is such a messed up kid, his parents are wacked out! Speaking of families, the Lodges are about to implode, and its going to be such a hot mess.

Edited February 28, 2019 by tennisgurl

[WhosThatGirl]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

This is most weirdly pro gangland violence teen drama ever. And I continue to be amazed that such a small town can sustain so many gangs/cults/criminal organizations/conspiracies for such a long period of time!

Not as good as the last episode, although there were some parts I liked. I actually like Josie and Archie a lot more than I expected to, even if it still feels kinda random and certainly wont be endgame. And most of their plot was alright, certainly better than a lot of what they've gotten (Archie gets high level drama, Josie gets nothing) lately, so I will take it. Even Papa Keller got a decent subplot! By the way, hows he doing after all that drama with his former BFF scarring the shit out of his son and kidnapping him?

Betty, maybe its time to cut your losses and have Fred adopt you? I mean, Alice has always been an asshole, just different flavors of asshole, and this time, she has "crazy cult lady who commits her daughter to evil nuns" going on. Betty is a much nicer person than many others would be, running off to save her from her own bad life choices after what she pulled, which Betty seems to have forgotten about. She is still her mom, so I guess I get it, but if Polly and Alice ever come to their kind of senses, they better give Betty a BIG cake or something. 

My God, the operatic music when Alice was getting drowned! It was so much...everything, even by this shows ridiculous standards! 

So Cheryl is starting her own little militia with her girl gang, even if it was supposedly a gift to Toni. Yeah, not a shocker. And what exactly do the Serpents stand for or mean or whatever everyone talks about anyway? They always talk about it, but has anyone defined it, beyond that whole thing about them being the remnants of a destroyed Native American tribe of motorcycle bikers or something? 

No wonder Jughead is such a messed up kid, his parents are wacked out! Speaking of families, the Lodges are about to implode, and its going to be such a hot mess.

Yup Alice is the worst but Betty will continue to be there for her and sorry it really continues to make her look like a doormat. Like at some point what are the writers going for?

And yeah I agree with everyone, like in season 2, everyone is so separate from each other and it’s not good

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, MollyWebber said:

When has Kevin been on Betty's side? He has chosen Veronica's side over hers, Chic's side over hers, and now The Farm over her. He even bailed on her when they were saving Archie to go after Joaquin lol! I've been holding out hope that they would showcase them better as friends but it hasn't happened.

@MollyWebber love! I feel the same way. Kevin has never been that great of a friend to Betty, actually. He has turned on Super easily. It also doesn’t help that we’ve never seen this bond they supposedly have. He was entranced by Veronica as soon as she appeared on the scene and immediately wanted to be her BFF. This is why I’ve never gotten the Kevin love to tell you the truth. It’s strange how much hate certain characters get and how much love others get and those who get away with so much worse.

[Snookums]

Okay, so this is some bizarro world blend of Scientology, Apocalypse Now, and various 50s JD movies with lots of boring pawn moving in between (with a skosh of Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome for spice!) You go on with your bad self, show.

Once again, these crazy ass multiple storylines means that characters who should be deeply involved with each other never even speak. Does Fred notice Archie's latest near-death experience? Does Jughead help Betty out beyond the most perfunctory advice? Does Kevin even exist beyond being the latest in a series of betrayals making Betty feel totally alone? Will Veronica get any help from her latest boyfriend who's mysteriously NOWHERE? Will Betty and Veronica ever even speak again? Didn't Keller get friggin' MARRIED to JOSIE'S MOTHER like, a week ago? 

You get the idea. While the actors do their best with the slivers of reality they're working in, the fact is Riverdale has splintered into various pocket universes, all of which are apparently parallel to each other and never meet except to branch off into some insane Mandelbrot set of plot machinations. The entire Pretty Poison thing was so damn stupid and existed only to set up Cheryl and Toni's inevitable and long overdue breakup, but it can't be just that, it also has to spiral into this crazed dredging of all the fifty thousand gangs in Riverdale led by You Will Never Be Brando Teenager or whatever the hell that was. Jughead, naturally, says barely a word to Betty (who, as Serpent Queen, should theoretically be taking an interest, right?) and nothing to his supposed best friend and recent traveling companion/rescued from death AGAIN, Archie.

Archie, meanwhile, is refreshingly himself--that is, a rock-stupid darling half-grown Boxer puppy who cannot accumulate any memory or experience no matter how hard he tries. He leaps from a reasonable outlet for his anger--boxing training--to deciding he needs a match right after Keller tells him he's suicidally unready to come anywhere near such a setup to agreeing to THROW A FIGHT for a Mob guy in exactly four minutes! Even for him that's a record. Josie, who hey! Got lines this week although apparently not a mother, at least tries to talk sense into him, but it's Archie. Luckily, Archie is still protected by a bemused God so not only does he not get flat out murdered in the ring, he continues his tradition of hot sex with a loving, gorgeous woman right after being beaten half to death. 

Betty: man, if there was going to be a case made for why her father seems to be the better bet parenting wise, this episode was it. The sendup of Scientology was pretty much moved from subtext to BIG BOLD LETTERS at this point; I would like to know why Alice, of all people, isn't connecting the extremely obvious points between The Farm and the G&G game, but she's clearly full on delusional at this point.

(The one thing I actually agreed with was selling that house. Not to finance Alice's nuttery, of course, but frankly they must need the money at this point! Does she even have a job anymore?)

Veronica's storyline was lots of running in place, really. I like Gina Gershon and her devilish ways--she's the first evil character who seems to grasp that it's easier to control teenagers if you Den Mother them rather than try to pretend they're adults, but I'm really unclear on why she's there at all. She seemed to be doing just fine in Cleveland and suddenly she wants to burn down Riverdale with Jellybean by her side or whatever? Just wear your cool-ass scarf/hair feather combo and reach for higher things, woman.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, Snookums said:

Okay, so this is some bizarro world blend of Scientology, Apocalypse Now, and various 50s JD movies with lots of boring pawn moving in between (with a skosh of Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome for spice!) You go on with your bad self, show.

Once again, these crazy ass multiple storylines means that characters who should be deeply involved with each other never even speak. Does Fred notice Archie's latest near-death experience? Does Jughead help Betty out beyond the most perfunctory advice? Does Kevin even exist beyond being the latest in a series of betrayals making Betty feel totally alone? Will Veronica get any help from her latest boyfriend who's mysteriously NOWHERE? Will Betty and Veronica ever even speak again? Didn't Keller get friggin' MARRIED to JOSIE'S MOTHER like, a week ago? 

You get the idea. While the actors do their best with the slivers of reality they're working in, the fact is Riverdale has splintered into various pocket universes, all of which are apparently parallel to each other and never meet except to branch off into some insane Mandelbrot set of plot machinations. The entire Pretty Poison thing was so damn stupid and existed only to set up Cheryl and Toni's inevitable and long overdue breakup, but it can't be just that, it also has to spiral into this crazed dredging of all the fifty thousand gangs in Riverdale led by You Will Never Be Brando Teenager or whatever the hell that was. Jughead, naturally, says barely a word to Betty (who, as Serpent Queen, should theoretically be taking an interest, right?) and nothing to his supposed best friend and recent traveling companion/rescued from death AGAIN, Archie.

Archie, meanwhile, is refreshingly himself--that is, a rock-stupid darling half-grown Boxer puppy who cannot accumulate any memory or experience no matter how hard he tries. He leaps from a reasonable outlet for his anger--boxing training--to deciding he needs a match right after Keller tells him he's suicidally unready to come anywhere near such a setup to agreeing to THROW A FIGHT for a Mob guy in exactly four minutes! Even for him that's a record. Josie, who hey! Got lines this week although apparently not a mother, at least tries to talk sense into him, but it's Archie. Luckily, Archie is still protected by a bemused God so not only does he not get flat out murdered in the ring, he continues his tradition of hot sex with a loving, gorgeous woman right after being beaten half to death. 

Betty: man, if there was going to be a case made for why her father seems to be the better bet parenting wise, this episode was it. The sendup of Scientology was pretty much moved from subtext to BIG BOLD LETTERS at this point; I would like to know why Alice, of all people, isn't connecting the extremely obvious points between The Farm and the G&G game, but she's clearly full on delusional at this point.

(The one thing I actually agreed with was selling that house. Not to finance Alice's nuttery, of course, but frankly they must need the money at this point! Does she even have a job anymore?)

Veronica's storyline was lots of running in place, really. I like Gina Gershon and her devilish ways--she's the first evil character who seems to grasp that it's easier to control teenagers if you Den Mother them rather than try to pretend they're adults, but I'm really unclear on why she's there at all. She seemed to be doing just fine in Cleveland and suddenly she wants to burn down Riverdale with Jellybean by her side or whatever? Just wear your cool-ass scarf/hair feather combo and reach for higher things, woman.

The farm got Alice a job as a reporter of some kind a few episodes back, when she took bettys money.

And I agree it’s strange that not one character talks to each other at all anymore. None of them have any idea about what’s going on in their lives. The brief interaction with Bughead proved this, “good luck with the cult and your mom Betty”, “okay good luck with the serpents jug”.. okay? And I firmly believe Bughead is solid and can do their own thing but wow was that a ridiculous scene that just proves no one talks to anyone. It’s how I felt when Betty was at the sisters and finally called Veronica and Veronica was like “omg I thought you were at the darm with your mom!” Like whoa.. really? Some best friend you are Veronica, the sisters is bad but Betty would never willingly go to the farm either so why weren’t you worried about that?

But back to this episode.. no one talks to anyone. Wasn’t that the issue they supposedly worked on from last season? I can’t imagine viewers actually like this. Someone said the show is trending badly each week and to that I say good. I also agree writing for the plots-which are bad if you ask me- just to move the stories and not connecting the dots or people or relationships to them is ruining the show. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[NeenerNeener]

I think I'm out now. Even Skeet and Luke can't make up for the unrelenting misery in this show, and these days I can only handle Greek tragedies in 10 episode per season doses.

In the Riverdale that I wish this was, Alice is going deep undercover to expose The Farm cult, but in the Riverdale this is, Alice is an even worse mother than Mrs. Blossom the whorehouse madame.

[Advance35]

Josie, sweetie, Archie is not worth more then 5k.  

That these two idiots didn't see the potential of turning Elios idea to their advantage has me convinced they might be suited for each other.  The simpleton and a cretin.

[Chaos Theory]

I think I am ready to throw in the towel.  I know it is kinda semi unpopular but the only person I care about is Cheryl.  I would watch show with Cheryl and Toni’s gang and possibly Betty,  everyone else is either stupid boring or both.

Hiram used to be a fun villain but even that has gotten old.  As a matter of fact I have even gotten tired of Veronica and her daddy issues.  It’s just boring,  

Judhead kicks out half of the loyal Serpents and the rest leave and he decides instead of making peace with them he allies  himself with enemies?  Dumb.

When the most interesting thing is Archie getting beat up you know your show is in trouble. 

I think I am done.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[WhosThatGirl]

Well Cheryl wasn’t really loyal at all to the serpents and Toni wasn’t that loyal either, considering she sold out her so called family to her girlfriend. And the reason the gang is so small is because of the riot night lastvseasin, FP said most of the serpents ran off that’s not on Jughead. and he didn’t Bring in the gouhlies, he decided not to last night, Gladys is the one who did. Jughead at the end said that it was a mistake and Gladys didn’t listen. That again is not on him.

Also it’s hard to like Cheryl when now she had her gang beat yon fangs and sweet pea. Just because it was girls beating up guys doesn’t make it better. She’s messed up, it’s not even funny. 

The writers are making a mess of this season actually. It’s not even funny. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[Snookums]

Ugh, you guys...

Luke Perry has apparently suffered a massive stroke. No details are out there yet that I've found, but...ugh.

[SourK]

I know you guys don't need to hear this from me, but I need to say it so I don't lose my mind: that's not how fixing a fight works! Like, not at all. Not even the basic principle. Nobody stood to benefit from that. Who's writing this? Why are they simultaneously obsessed with the underworld and unwilling to google anything about it? I don't understaaaaaand.

(Also, I liked the Tina Turner cover, but it seemed like a weird choice for the speakeasy).

15 hours ago, Advance35 said:

Calling it now, something TERRIBLE is going to happen to Hermione or Veronica.  I don't know what, but gut feeling says it is going to be VERY ugly.  I can't decide whom the perpetrator will be, Gladys or Hiram himself.

From a purely meta standpoint, I think Hermione is the best candidate to leave the show, because she's the weakest part of the Lodge triangle and the one the writers don't know what to do with. So, if they wanted to tighten things up, the challenge would be how to get her off the show while keeping Veronica and Hiram together. I could see it happening a few different ways. Like, maybe she goes on the run to protect herself and she doesn't/can't take Veronica with her. Or maybe she disappears and there's a mystery next season about what happened to her, and maybe Hiram murdered her and maybe (probably) he didn't.

The less obvious move would be to get rid of Hiram by having Hermione finally stand up to him and/or successfully overthrow him, and then next season, Veronica and her mom are united and it opens up new story lines. But the actor playing Hiram is so charismatic, and he's so clearly their favorite villain, that that seems like a riskier choice.

15 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I wonder if Hiram going to make veronica  sell Pops/The Speakeasy to him? He did tell her she owed him 75 thousand dollars and lately she’s been complaining about the lack of money she makes from it for the most part. Hiram taking it over would possibly make him more money from it and I bet he would love to shove that in her face.

This reminds me -- I wasn't sure how to read that scene, because $75K a) doesn't seem like a lot of drug money and b) seems like it's nothing to the Lodges, in general. He may as well be saying, "You owe me fifty bucks,"  since, in the context of how rich they are, it seems like a petty amount of money to ask for. But the vibe was much more serious than that, so maybe we're supposed to see this as a problem. I don't know.

13 hours ago, Snookums said:

Once again, these crazy ass multiple storylines means that characters who should be deeply involved with each other never even speak. Does Fred notice Archie's latest near-death experience? Does Jughead help Betty out beyond the most perfunctory advice?

I agree with the point you're making about how none of the characters meaningfully interact with each other outside of ticking off plot points. At the same time, I kind of like that Betty and Jughead have their own interests and friend groups -- well, Jughead has a friend group -- outside of each other. A lot of the time, TV couples turn into a thing where one person tags along on the other person's wacky adventures (see: Cheryl and Toni) and these two are still having their own adventures, which makes them seem more equal.

But, yes, absolutely, in real life, if my girlfriend's family was joining a cult, I'd be hella involved in trying to solve that problem with her.

[opus]

1 minute ago, SourK said:

I know you guys don't need to hear this from me, but I need to say it so I don't lose my mind: that's not how fixing a fight works! Like, not at all. Not even the basic principle. Nobody stood to benefit from that. Who's writing this? Why are they simultaneously obsessed with the underworld and unwilling to google anything about it? I don't understaaaaaand.

I know. Didn't the fixer say he had all these people who bet on the guy fighting Archie. Wouldn't that guy be the overwhelming favorite. Wouldn't the fixer lose money if everyone won their bets? How does Archie taking a dive accomplish anything?

[Wilpen]

Man that was a hot mess. 

While I appreciate Bughead is steady and stable, they still aren't getting that much. Then again, I cannot complain because of everything else that is going on = a total nightmare. It could be worse. Still, this one little scene where my Jug even gives Betty some stupid advice (lol) doesn't cut it.

However, as a Bughead shipper I cannot get too critical considering how bad everything else is.

Does this show even remember that Betty and Veronica are friends? Seriously? Does this show even remember that one of the biggest attractions in season 1 was the Betty/Veronica dynamic? Why on earth are they not interacting? It's maddening. 

Kevin... don't even get me started. He sucks. He sucks, big time. I never liked Kevin and Moose. I tried but they were like air to me. So to find out Kevin is now even a more terrible friend to Betty due to his break up with Moose just pisses me off all the more. He's sht on Betty before. He was obsessed with Veronica in season 1, he's turned his back on Betty before... but using his break up as a reason to reject and not be there for Betty once again is ridiculous. At this point, I hope he endures the baptism at The Farm without getting revived. Adios, Kevin. You've messed with Betty too many times for me to care about you.

Poor Betty... having to deal with her crazy a$$ family all by herself. Polly is another one I wish would join Kevin and not get revived. What a worthless idiot. Has she been baptized yet? If so, let's do it again, and without the CPR. Where are her innocent, poor kids? Those poor kids! Can someone please save them! Swear to God, Hal, the psychopath is a better family member to Betty than Alice and Polly which is as pathetic as it gets. Admittedly, I'm curious to see what CMM is going to do with the cult leader role. That's about the only interest I have in this storyline. That and I'm glad Alice mentioned selling the Cooper house. Hopefully it means Betty will never live with Alice again.

Archie and the boxing and dirty matches... ready to fall asleep. Although, he should have grabbed the money, lol. Whatever, amazingly dumb but adorable Archie turned out okay in this one. I am still shocked that he's basically been to hell and back yet his ex-girlfriend and two childhood best friends don't really care what he's up to. 

Archie/Josie are the shining light in this episode. I love them. The chemistry between the two actors is so soft and smooth... they make Archie/Josie so tender and believable. Even if they had sex pretty quickly, it doesn't matter because it's clear an established emotional connection exists between them. It felt right.

Josie's singing was the best of the series to date... man, did I love her creation of the classic Tina T song. Her voice was magical. 

I'm still trying to figure out what Gladys is doing back home. She did get stuff done... recruiting Veronica to spy Hiram, striking a deal with Hiram to take over the Fizzle Rocks business, and while, a dumb idea, bringing in ex-Ghoulies to add to the number of Serpents. She even had time to make breakfast, lol. I love the actress... her talent is apparent. In every scene, her acting is so good I feel like I'm watching the large screen instead of a CW show. That said, the character is full of dirt and I'm afraid Jughead is going to suffer the most when it's all over and she inevitably leaves. Still wondering if she killed Penny or not. I feel like she didn't or else she wouldn't be loosely mentioning her so much. Oh well. 

I am not remotely feeling the Cheryl and Toni’s new gang the Pretty Poisons storyline... what Cheryl did by messing up Fangs and Sweet Pea was not cool. It was confusing and cruel to say the least. I feel a break up coming because once again, Cheryl is being Cheryl and pissing Toni off. Speaking of Toni... I know Jughead shouldn't have been so quick to rip her out of the Serpents but her request to take over the Queen title was lame. I still hope eventually she becomes a Serpent again though. It is who she is. 

Veronica is in serious trouble once again... owes money, working with Gladys, covering things up to help the situation with her parents, what a mess. I think Hermione is in major trouble with Hiram. He has that mafia, calm, but dangerous look to him every second he even glances at Hermione and she knows it. He understands she made a payment to the governor right around the time he was shot. Veronica took the blame for torching the Fizzle Rocks supply and equipment… but the way Hiram looks at Hermione reminds me of the Godfather shortly before the family member was murdered. 

So I guess we were clued in to notice that the ex-Farm woman used the word “ascend” in her conversation with Betty. Not a huge revelation but it's a done deal that the Gargoyle King mystery and the The Farm mystery are connected. I still don't think Edgar Evernever is the real Gargoyle King but both storylines are connected, that is for sure. 

Where was Reggie in this one?

Where was Fred? (Hope Luke is going to be okay). 

I will never stop watching this show even if it's as crazy as it gets. I just can't. I fully admit as much. As a result, I really hope next season goes back to season 1 roots... the core friendships/dynamics have to be front and center again. Betty and Veronica have to start remembering they are best friends. 

[WhosThatGirl]

10 minutes ago, Wilpen said:

Man that was a hot mess. 

While I appreciate Bughead is steady and stable, they still aren't getting that much. Then again, I cannot complain because of everything else that is going on = a total nightmare. It could be worse. Still, this one little scene where my Jug even gives Betty some stupid advice (lol) doesn't cut it.

However, as a Bughead shipper I cannot get too critical considering how bad everything else is.

Does this show even remember that Betty and Veronica are friends? Seriously? Does this show even remember that one of the biggest attractions in season 1 was the Betty/Veronica dynamic? Why on earth are they not interacting? It's maddening. 

Kevin... don't even get me started. He sucks. He sucks, big time. I never liked Kevin and Moose. I tried but they were like air to me. So to find out Kevin is now even a more terrible friend to Betty due to his break up with Moose just pisses me off all the more. He's sht on Betty before. He was obsessed with Veronica in season 1, he's turned his back on Betty before... but using his break up as a reason to reject and not be there for Betty once again is ridiculous. At this point, I hope he endures the baptism at The Farm without getting revived. Adios, Kevin. You've messed with Betty too many times for me to care about you.

Poor Betty... having to deal with her crazy a$$ family all by herself. Polly is another one I wish would join Kevin and not get revived. What a worthless idiot. Has she been baptized yet? If so, let's do it again, and without the CPR. Where are her innocent, poor kids? Those poor kids! Can someone please save them! Swear to God, Hal, the psychopath is a better family member to Betty than Alice and Polly which is as pathetic as it gets. Admittedly, I'm curious to see what CMM is going to do with the cult leader role. That's about the only interest I have in this storyline. That and I'm glad Alice mentioned selling the Cooper house. Hopefully it means Betty will never live with Alice again.

Archie and the boxing and dirty matches... ready to fall asleep. Although, he should have grabbed the money, lol. Whatever, amazingly dumb but adorable Archie turned out okay in this one. I am still shocked that he's basically been to hell and back yet his ex-girlfriend and two childhood best friends don't really care what he's up to. 

Archie/Josie are the shining light in this episode. I love them. The chemistry between the two actors is so soft and smooth... they make Archie/Josie so tender and believable. Even if they had sex pretty quickly, it doesn't matter because it's clear an established emotional connection exists between them. It felt right.

Josie's singing was the best of the series to date... man, did I love her creation of the classic Tina T song. Her voice was magical. 

I'm still trying to figure out what Gladys is doing back home. She did get stuff done... recruiting Veronica to spy Hiram, striking a deal with Hiram to take over the Fizzle Rocks business, and while, a dumb idea, bringing in ex-Ghoulies to add to the number of Serpents. She even had time to make breakfast, lol. I love the actress... her talent is apparent. In every scene, her acting is so good I feel like I'm watching the large screen instead of a CW show. That said, the character is full of dirt and I'm afraid Jughead is going to suffer the most when it's all over and she inevitably leaves. Still wondering if she killed Penny or not. I feel like she didn't or else she wouldn't be loosely mentioning her so much. Oh well. 

I am not remotely feeling the Cheryl and Toni’s new gang the Pretty Poisons storyline... what Cheryl did by messing up Fangs and Sweet Pea was not cool. It was confusing and cruel to say the least. I feel a break up coming because once again, Cheryl is being Cheryl and pissing Toni off. Speaking of Toni... I know Jughead shouldn't have been so quick to rip her out of the Serpents but her request to take over the Queen title was lame. I still hope eventually she becomes a Serpent again though. It is who she is. 

Veronica is in serious trouble once again... owes money, working with Gladys, covering things up to help the situation with her parents, what a mess. I think Hermione is in major trouble with Hiram. He has that mafia, calm, but dangerous look to him every second he even glances at Hermione and she knows it. He understands she made a payment to the governor right around the time he was shot. Veronica took the blame for torching the Fizzle Rocks supply and equipment… but the way Hiram looks at Hermione reminds me of the Godfather shortly before the family member was murdered. 

So I guess we were clued in to notice that the ex-Farm woman used the word “ascend” in her conversation with Betty. Not a huge revelation but it's a done deal that the Gargoyle King mystery and the The Farm mystery are connected. I still don't think Edgar Evernever is the real Gargoyle King but both storylines are connected, that is for sure. 

Where was Reggie in this one?

Where was Fred? (Hope Luke is going to be okay). 

I will never stop watching this show even if it's as crazy as it gets. I just can't. I fully admit as much. As a result, I really hope next season goes back to season 1 roots... the core friendships/dynamics have to be front and center again. Betty and Veronica have to start remembering they are best friends. 

I wish I could like this more than once. This season is beyond a hot mess. 

[Wilpen]

8 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I wish I could like this more than once. This season is beyond a hot mess. 

Hopefully next season will be better. I guess we have to hope, lol.

Bughead remaining together, Archie/Josie new dynamic, really are the moments I embrace (even if I want more Bughead). Have to embrace the good since there's so much bad. 

[WhosThatGirl]

4 minutes ago, Wilpen said:

Hopefully next season will be better. I guess we have to hope, lol.

Bughead remaining together, Archie/Josie new dynamic, really are the moments I embrace (even if I want more Bughead). Have to embrace the good since there's so much bad. 

Same. I really am here only for the Bughead moments and the only thing I can say about the lack of their screentime is that they’re still together. That’s what worries me if they ever get more screentime, which is probably because of the memories of last season when Bughead has a lot of moments in episodes and ended up broken up by the end of an episode. 

I like Josie and Archie but even I’m guessing they aren’t a serious thing so I can’t care too much.

Im curious about what the deal is with Choni. Are they headed to a breakup? Because I’m not a fan of them, or Cheryl or Toni separately at this point, but damn.. RAS gets so much hate when Choni is on sceeen for a minute even if they’re happy or kissing because people claim they barley get any screentime (which even I have to agree is partly true) I can’t imagine  the hate he is getting now for their scenes last night. 

And I completely agree with your thoughts on Kevin. As I and another poster and you again pointed out, kevin has been a crap friend to Betty. I’m sorry but facts. In fact almost all of the people in bettys life have been pretty awful to her(except for Jughead and he had his moments in season  2 that were side eye worthy) but Archie has always seen past her most of the time, Cheryl has called her names, her sister is nuts and has never been there, Veronica is flighty at best, and well we know what both of her parents are like. But Kevin as her supposed best friend? When? That first scene in the pilot? He dropped her pretty fast when he met veronica Lodge and became her new bestie. And he continues to believe others before Betty. Seriously it is things like this that make me wonder how Betty gets a ton of hate when others get away with so much worse than her. If Kevin left this show I wouldn’t care. He’s the worst friend. 

[lorbeer]

I used to like Alice. She was fun. Kind of crazy but fun or at least she used to say some crazy things that made laugh a lot. Now she's dull. And creepy... I feel for Betty. It seems like her mother doesn't love her anymore. I'm kind of amazed how nobody but Betty is really concerded about her joining a cult. Especially FP! He should notice something bad is happening... I hope she will come to her senses... Apart form that I like the idea of Archie making a career in boxing. What I don't like that he's got yet another 'super' villan against him who's now out there to kill him. I really hope I'm not right and Elio (correct name??) and his mob family are not going to go after him the way Hiram did. And I like Josie and Archie together. Together they're interesting. Before that I couldn't care less for them.

[WhosThatGirl]

10 minutes ago, lorbeer said:

I used to like Alice. She was fun. Kind of crazy but fun or at least she used to say some crazy things that made laugh a lot. Now she's dull. And creepy... I feel for Betty. It seems like her mother doesn't love her anymore. I'm kind of amazed how nobody but Betty is really concerded about her joining a cult. Especially FP! He should notice something bad is happening... I hope she will come to her senses... Apart form that I like the idea of Archie making a career in boxing. What I don't like that he's got yet another 'super' villan against him who's now out there to kill him. I really hope I'm not right and Elio (correct name??) and his mob family are not going to go after him the way Hiram did. And I like Josie and Archie together. Together they're interesting. Before that I couldn't care less for them.

FP likes the cult or he did that one episode because it allowed Alice to embrace herself and start hooking up with him again. He legit said that to her. So he’s all for it. At least he was. I’m sure he will be again when there’s a scene with Falice booking up again.

Also Alice has always been a terrible mother so this isn’t anything new, actually. The only difference the show having her act this way is making it really hard for how the writers are going to try and redeem her so betty can forgive her and feel bad. Sorry she won’t be able to sing her way out of this one like last year.

[WhosThatGirl]

4 minutes ago, MollyWebber said:

Another takeaway from this episode for me is that if Jughead treated Betty the way Cheryl treats Toni, people would be shouting TOXIC from the rooftops. Also how was it supposed to be funny for the PPs to jump Sweetpea and Fangs? Had they fought back would it still be funny? Cheryl can go fuck herself with the way they're currently writing her. Again, Toni deserves so much better than to be her bitch and puppet.

I said this exact thing earlier about the show implying that because it’s girls against guys it shouldn’t be an issue.

Also people already call Bughead toxic constantly and I never understand.  

[Dobian]

The whole Jughead as gang leader plot needs to run its course, unless they want to change Jughead.  You can't run a sustainable gang without doing gang things like, you know, crime?

Cheryl and Toni suddenly getting their own made-to-order girl gang is just way to convenient and contrived. 

I'm done with the whole Farm plot with nutty Alice and those psycho girls.  Betty needs to just move in with Jughead.

Archie is now fully on the school of hard knocks character trope.

It seems like every meeting or family dinner with Lodges ends with Hiram telling his daughter how much she owes him.

Get well, Luke!

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, Dobian said:

The whole Jughead as gang leader plot needs to run its course, unless they want to change Jughead.  You can't run a sustainable gang without doing gang things like, you know, crime?

Cheryl and Toni suddenly getting their own made-to-order girl gang is just way to convenient and contrived. 

I'm done with the whole Farm plot with nutty Alice and those psycho girls.  Betty needs to just move in with Jughead.

Archie is now fully on the school of hard knocks character trope.

It seems like every meeting or family dinner with Lodges ends with Hiram telling his daughter how much she owes him.

Get well, Luke!

Yeah.. I was thinking does veronica even have any sort of income? Hiram took away her trust last season( although considering she seems to have forgotten the months of hating her parents and living in pops basement maybe she still has it) and her buisness isn’t ever making money. Or at least it wasn’t.i agree with others her family stuff is boring.

Again I have to mention it’s just like we’re back in last season. The Lodges and their buisness is super boring and not at all interesting. Even if this time it’s drugs, it’s so boring. Also are the serpents still doing security for veronica? Seems like that would be a no. I’m so lost on all of this stuff. It seems like this season will have a ton of deleted scenes because a lot of things need to be explained.

[thuganomics85]

Never would have thought that Archie trying to be a boxer and Archie/Josie in general would end up being the best part about an episode, but it is nice seeing Archie find an outlet for him (even though he still almost screwed all that up, because he's Archie), and I do like the chemistry between him and Josie, and how it seems like she actually does get through his big, daff head at times.  Plus, it was nice seeing Keller get to be part of the storyline, since he's one of the few adults who doesn't suck (sure, he was a crap sheriff, but he was always a decent human being.)

But, of course, the rest of Riverdale is batshit insane as always.  Jughead finds himself in a bit of trouble, as pretty much all of the female Southside Serpent members bail to join the Pretty Poisons, and after failing to accomplish anything, Gladys pretty much takes over, and hires the Ghoulies.  Who are pretty much the Gargoyles now.  Yeah, all of that makes sense somehow.  As for the Pretty Poisons, they're really just Cheryl's hit squad, who apparently think they'll strike fear in the hearts of Riverdale if it takes about ten or twelve of them to beat up poor Sweet Pea and Fangs.  We'll see if this will be a wake-up call for Toni, or if she's going to continue to let Cheryl go behind her back.

Aww, look at Veronica trying to intimate Gladys!  So cute!  This whole thing with Gladys and Hiram "coexisting" is hilarious.  Although, really, everything pertaining to Hiram and the Lodges has been laugh out loud funny, since it all comes off like someone went through a Scorsese film marathon, and figured they could do it too.

At this point, Betty really should just cut ties with Alice and the rest of her insane family.  And now Kevin is drinking the The Farm's Kool-Aid too?  Ha!  What the hell?!

No Fred, but I hope Luke Perry has a speedy recovery.

[Snookums]

Quote

I used to like Alice. She was fun. Kind of crazy but fun or at least she used to say some crazy things that made laugh a lot. Now she's dull.

To be fair, people who have been in cults, and their loved ones, say that they totally changed, and in many cases, lost many personality traits due to being subsumed into this hive mind, so that's not even inaccurate, but it is boring to watch! Crazy Alice used to get on my nerves but not because she was uninteresting, even when her actions didn't really track from one episode to the next. But nowadays all she does is drone on about how she's freeing herself with organic milk and oatmeal cookies with that placid smile and it's BORING. 

Quote

FP likes the cult or he did that one episode because it allowed Alice to embrace herself and start hooking up with him again. He legit said that to her. So he’s all for it. At least he was. I’m sure he will be again when there’s a scene with Falice booking up again.

Which will be about the twelfth of never, since once again the show seems to have forgotten that Alice and FP even know each other, much less have a secret son and fraughtness and drama around the whole thing.

Quote

I really hope I'm not right and Elio (correct name??) and his mob family are not going to go after him the way Hiram did. 

I'm not too worried, since most of these mobsters in general and Elio in particular are just as dumb as a box of hair. They make Archie seem like a Rhodes scholar. By the time they get around to trying to go after him Archie will have taken up skydiving or skeet shooting or something and be dating Evelyn.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Snookums

[WhosThatGirl]

5 minutes ago, Snookums said:

To be fair, people who have been in cults, and their loved ones, say that they totally changed, and in many cases, lost many personality traits due to being subsumed into this hive mind, so that's not even inaccurate, but it is boring to watch! Crazy Alice used to get on my nerves but not because she was uninteresting, even when her actions didn't really track from one episode to the next. But nowadays all she does is drone on about how she's freeing herself with organic milk and oatmeal cookies with that placid smile and it's BORING. 

Which will be about the twelfth of never, since once again the show seems to have forgotten that Alice and FP even know each other, much less have a secret son and fraughtness and drama around the whole thing.

I’m pretty sure Falice is going to come back at some point, now that Gladys is back. Come on, that’s the only thing Gladys will be good for is a show down with Alice. After that she can leave too, because she’s an awful parent too.

Also to me Alice didn’t change? She’s just gotten awful in a different way to her daughter. She’s always treated Betty like crap  she just does it differently each season. I’ve never gotten the love for her. I know people also like the actress a lot too, she grates in my nerves as well, mostly because she seems very much like a try hard on social media. At least in regards to the Falice stuff. And the worst part is the show will somehow have Betty forgive her and then next season she will do something even more awful to Betty.

I’m not sure what she can do next, she already was medicating her and watching her weight during season one(yeah I didn’t forget), in season 2 she denounced her boyfriend and basically called betty crazy about the black hood letters saying Betty was acting it out, then chose her faux son over Betty even though Betty was scared, also hilariously ignored bettys speech about self harm that Betty told chic at te breakfast table, also had her cover up a murder,this season she’s gone to a cult, sent Betty to an insane hospital that force fed her drinks but no one mentions it and took bettys money. So next season is she going to actually kill her? 

Edited March 1, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[HunterHunted]

15 hours ago, SourK said:

I know you guys don't need to hear this from me, but I need to say it so I don't lose my mind: that's not how fixing a fight works! Like, not at all. Not even the basic principle. Nobody stood to benefit from that. Who's writing this? Why are they simultaneously obsessed with the underworld and unwilling to google anything about it? I don't understaaaaaand.

It really isn't how you fix a fight. This is sort of reflective of one of the larger issues with this show. It's very concerned about the macro level story, but it is sloppy as all get out when it comes to the micro level storytelling. Their plotting is anemic and they don't seem to want to go through the details and steps to make these plot points make sense. And they don't seem to understand the characters well enough to do solid character arcs as the characters rocket back and forth between plot points. They also do such a poor job of research that they end up with these half baked plots--the mafia, drug running, gangs, prison corruption, and cults.

However, an indemnification against liability for injury or death is actually pretty standard. Similar language is often printed on the backs of amusement park tickets. Alice was not wrong on that.

Quote

From a purely meta standpoint, I think Hermione is the best candidate to leave the show, because she's the weakest part of the Lodge triangle and the one the writers don't know what to do with. So, if they wanted to tighten things up, the challenge would be how to get her off the show while keeping Veronica and Hiram together. I could see it happening a few different ways. Like, maybe she goes on the run to protect herself and she doesn't/can't take Veronica with her. Or maybe she disappears and there's a mystery next season about what happened to her, and maybe Hiram murdered her and maybe (probably) he didn't.

The less obvious move would be to get rid of Hiram by having Hermione finally stand up to him and/or successfully overthrow him, and then next season, Veronica and her mom are united and it opens up new story lines. But the actor playing Hiram is so charismatic, and he's so clearly their favorite villain, that that seems like a riskier choice.

I disagree about Hermione being the best candidate to leave the show. Hermione unlike Hiram has nuanced relationships with many of the characters. Hiram only has good relationships with his criminal conspirators. For every other character, Hiram is a mustache twirling villain. There's nothing remotely interesting about him because he's basically only pettiness and self-interested malevolence from the moment he stepped on the scene. Even with people he purports to care about like Veronica and Hermione, he vacillates between manipulative condescension and near homicidal rage. They've done a horrific job of fleshing him out. I find him tiresome.

It was completely unnecessary to have the Pretty Poisons beat up Fangs and Sweet Pea. The show could have just had them intimidate the boys without landing a single blow. Think about that scene in Kill Bill when Gogo drops the head of her meteor hammer. The fight with the Bride that follows is great, but that pause and a beat is enough to communicate that Gogo is fucking crazy and dangerous. The show actually had done something similar when they first introduced Cheryl's archery in an offensive situation. So all we and Sweet Pea and Fangs needed to see was Cheryl's threat and shots of PP's weapons in escalating dangerousness (like brass knuckles, bat, machete, and meteor hammer or an equally bonkers weapon (urumi, chakram, Japanese war fan). But they never needed use them. The PP's just needed to brandish their weapons to scare.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. I think the PP attacking Fangs and Sweet Pea was supposed to be seen funny? I really do.  Because if it had been reversed, wow,  that would be totally different but because it’s females attacking names it’s fun and funny. No. No it isn’t.  All it does is send the Cheryl character back a whole bunch of steps. I mean I find her annoying in season one but because of this episode and the ones before it, she’s just beyond that right now. Jughead was totally right that the PP and Toni are a vanity project right now for her. 

[rmontro]

So Archie wants to be a boxer, but of course he doesn't want to have to put the work in to become one.  What a jackass.

And of course he fights the experienced guy anyway, and nearly wins, or is cheated out of winning.

This is all just serving to increase my dislike of Archie.  I don't mind him with Josie (I really don't care), as long as he stays away from Betty.

Riverdale seems to be going through a dull spot right now, maybe they need to wrap up these storylines.  How many episodes are there to go this season?

This show is so odd, it's like a daytime soap opera for teens, except the teens are all played by and act like adults (well, immature adults anyway).

[catrice2]

I haven't watched or read the boards in a while. I am watching right now after reading the posts and I still don't know what is going on. I guess I should have read the posts before trying to watch it. I saw one or one and a half episodes early this season and knew it was going to be terrible.  It was a great first season...I guess I'll always have that.  Still need to go back and see how Archie got out of jail, etc.  Has everyone slept with everyone yet? What happened to the Pussycats?

[WhosThatGirl]

15 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

I haven't watched or read the boards in a while. I am watching right now after reading the posts and I still don't know what is going on. I guess I should have read the posts before trying to watch it. I saw one or one and a half episodes early this season and knew it was going to be terrible.  It was a great first season...I guess I'll always have that.  Still need to go back and see how Archie got out of jail, etc.  Has everyone slept with everyone yet? What happened to the Pussycats?

Yeah.. the first season was amazing. And for some reason the show decided to go dark in season 2 and now really dark. Like beyond repair dark for certain storylines. I said something in the spoiler thread about how this season feels like I’m watching all the characters get tortured and traumatized for an hour and half the time no one remembers that they went through some stuff.

I’m not even talking about how they forget events from the last seasons, I’m talking about how they can’t remember things from like three episodes ago. Like Veronica for instance is all about her family and getting them out of bad things like drug dealing.. huh? Didn’t she hate her parents and denounce them constantly through the first half of this season? Also let’s forget about Varchie and all them because now it’s Veggie time! And Betty.. I know there’s other things going on with your mom but holy cow did she just forget her mother sent away to the sisters? I get it’s her mom but she seems to not even remember that happened or when she does, she conventionally never is like “well my mom sent me there”.. it just happened. Guess we won’t be circling back to that ever because Alice is going to move her into the farm complex which also happens to be where Betty was tortured because her mother sent her to an insane asylum but whatever and she’ll probably be drugged again and forced into a cult!!! But whatever. She’s not going to remember this next season anyway.

[Alice Mudgarden]

On 2/27/2019 at 10:23 PM, tennisgurl said:

My God, the operatic music when Alice was getting drowned! It was so much...everything, even by this shows ridiculous standards! 

I was *dying*. That ridiculous score was the best part of the episode.

[xqueenfrostine]

Is it just me or does Cole Sprouse look comically lame any time Jughead has to look like a tough guy, gang leader?  I just cannot take him seriously when he pulls out a switchblade.  He doesn't look like a gangster, he looks like he's part of a middle school production of West Side Story.  He's completely nonthreatening.  I know the whole Southside Serpents storyline is ill conceived to begin with, but I keep wondering if I would have an easier time buying into it if someone else was playing Jughead.  Probably not, as the writing would still be terrible, but Good God is Sprouse ever a bad fit for the type of character Jughead has become.  Well cast for season one Jughead, but terrible for everything since.   

I also don't understand what a Serpent Queen is and why Toni couldn't have the job.  Up until now it just seemed like a consort position since Betty had it by virtue of being Jug's girlfriend, but if it actually comes with leadership authority why wouldn't it go to someone who is someone who belongs to the gang for her own sake and not just to be with her boyfriend?  How has Jughead not been overthrown yet?  He is a terrible leader and does not look like he could hold his own in a fight against any of the other Serpents.   

[WhosThatGirl]

Well it’s hard To take any of the teenagers seriously when they are acting all tough and whatever. Archie acting tough makes me laugh and laugh, Jughead as a gang leader, Veronica currently trying to get in the drug mob thing, this season and last, Betty as dark Betty, ugh, cringe worthy even all the other teenager gang members, Cheryl almost anything she does honestly, especially when she’s Katniss  Everdeen and why? BecUse they’re teenagers.

The Toni wanting to be queen annoys me because she has never shown any interest in being queen before ever. And bringing it up now because cheryl have her a gang to lead when  she clearly doesn’t make much sense. Also the fact that she brought it up and then had to bring Betty into it brings up other things, like is she still a threat to the Bughead relationship because even if that wasn’t the intention, it kind of sounds like it. Or at least it implies it could be. Maybe I’m projecting. It’s just odd. She has never shown herself wanting to be queen before. And this episode kind of paved the way that Choni is headed to a possible breakup.

[jay741982]

11 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

Is it just me or does Cole Sprouse look comically lame any time Jughead has to look like a tough guy, gang leader?  I just cannot take him seriously when he pulls out a switchblade.  He doesn't look like a gangster, he looks like he's part of a middle school production of West Side Story.  He's completely nonthreatening.  I know the whole Southside Serpents storyline is ill conceived to begin with, but I keep wondering if I would have an easier time buying into it if someone else was playing Jughead.  Probably not, as the writing would still be terrible, but Good God is Sprouse ever a bad fit for the type of character Jughead has become.  Well cast for season one Jughead, but terrible for everything since.   

I also don't understand what a Serpent Queen is and why Toni couldn't have the job.  Up until now it just seemed like a consort position since Betty had it by virtue of being Jug's girlfriend, but if it actually comes with leadership authority why wouldn't it go to someone who is someone who belongs to the gang for her own sake and not just to be with her boyfriend?  How has Jughead not been overthrown yet?  He is a terrible leader and does not look like he could hold his own in a fight against any of the other Serpents.   

Considering Toni betrayed her "family" for her girlfriend and Jughead has had their back more than Toni I dont think Toni should lead. Her and Cheryl stole for thrills and they couldn't be bothered to house Serpants who had a rougher time than Toni with her Rich GF. 

[rmontro]

13 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah.. the first season was amazing. And for some reason the show decided to go dark in season 2 and now really dark.

It's almost like they're just trying for shock factor now, to see how far they can go and how "edgy" they can make all the characters.

9 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Well it’s hard To take any of the teenagers seriously when they are acting all tough and whatever.

I'll tell you right now, I think the one who would scare me the most is Cheryl.  She's good with that bow and arrow, and it seems like she wouldn't hesitate to put one in you if she thought she had a decent reason.  And on this show, she'd likely get away with it too.  Or maybe spend a few days in jail at most.

[WhosThatGirl]

I wouldn’t really be all that scared of Cheryl. Maybe with the bow and arrow but sometimes I think she’s more bark than bite, even the latest episode, others did her dirty work. She stood by and directed what they do. Anyways..

I do agree that now the show is going for shock value and not only in my humble opinion it has ruined the plots of the show and the characters, as I said, it feels like watching characters get tortured each week and then forgetting they got tortured. As I said again, it does kind of feel like characters have forgotten important plot points that were pretty key in the first half of this season just because the plot needs them  to. It doesn’t make sense. And I get nothing on this show makes sense but certain things are getting kind of ridiculous.

[AnimeMania]

14 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

Is it just me or does Cole Sprouse look comically lame any time Jughead has to look like a tough guy, gang leader?  I just cannot take him seriously when he pulls out a switchblade.  He doesn't look like a gangster, he looks like he's part of a middle school production of West Side Story.  He's completely nonthreatening.  I know the whole Southside Serpents storyline is ill conceived to begin with, but I keep wondering if I would have an easier time buying into it if someone else was playing Jughead.  Probably not, as the writing would still be terrible, but Good God is Sprouse ever a bad fit for the type of character Jughead has become.  Well cast for season one Jughead, but terrible for everything since.   

I also don't understand what a Serpent Queen is and why Toni couldn't have the job.  Up until now it just seemed like a consort position since Betty had it by virtue of being Jug's girlfriend, but if it actually comes with leadership authority why wouldn't it go to someone who is someone who belongs to the gang for her own sake and not just to be with her boyfriend?  How has Jughead not been overthrown yet?  He is a terrible leader and does not look like he could hold his own in a fight against any of the other Serpents.   

My theory is we are all seeing what happens in the book that Jughead is writing, so of course he would make himself the tough leader of a street gang and have a hot girlfriend. Riverdale in the book is an exciting place where anything can happen and when they finally show you the real life Riverdale it will be a quiet small typical American town where nothing ever happens and everybody there is normal and boring.

[WhosThatGirl]

32 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

My theory is we are all seeing what happens in the book that Jughead is writing, so of course he would make himself the tough leader of a street gang and have a hot girlfriend. Riverdale in the book is an exciting place where anything can happen and when they finally show you the real life Riverdale it will be a quiet small typical American town where nothing ever happens and everybody there is normal and boring.

I go back and forth if I want it to end up being a book because who knows what the show will end up making real and not what happened in the book. I don’t know. I just feel certain things wouldn’t have happened and therefor certain relationships maybe didn’t happen. 

[HeatLifer]

4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

My theory is we are all seeing what happens in the book that Jughead is writing, so of course he would make himself the tough leader of a street gang and have a hot girlfriend. Riverdale in the book is an exciting place where anything can happen and when they finally show you the real life Riverdale it will be a quiet small typical American town where nothing ever happens and everybody there is normal and boring.

Right? That’s the only thing that explains anyone listening to Jughead. Ha. 

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, HeatLifer said:

Right? That’s the only thing that explains anyone listening to Jughead. Ha. 

As I said I kind of hope sometimes the book theory isn’t true. I worry of this happens Bughead is a dream or what Jughead wishes would have happened and in fact Barchie is actually the end game and that would make me super sad. 

[sweetandsour]

Ugh, this show. I am not a regular reader or commenter for Riverdale (though I do regularly watch it), so I apologize if I'm just repeating what others have already said. But anyway. I really don't understand what's going on in the writers' room. Do they not understand that they have put together a show that's comprised of individual characters basically being on their own unrelated show? If I didn't know anything about the cast, I would assume that almost everyone hates working with KJ and vice versa, so they've kept him in storylines where he barely interacts with anyone but the same people over and over. And Veronica is moving more and more to that side as well. They took one of the strongest adults with the snappiest lines (Alice) and turned her into ... this??? For the entire season? I agree with everyone else who must have made comments about how nonsense plots are driving everything, including what characters do and who they align with, instead of the characters informing how the plot is executed. At this rate, I feel we are headed towards the caliber of Glee.

Remember the days when the pieces of the show either meshed together pretty well or were legitimately welcome elements of character/relationship development, except for Archie's wannabe music career??? Oh, to go back to the days of only side-eying that ...

I don't even know if there's any mystery anymore to "who is the Gargoyle King?" since they've already had several characters being the King in certain situations. But if there is an ultimate GK other than Edgar, I'm expecting it to be someone totally random like Principal Weatherbee, the Jingle Jangle teacher from Southside High last season who was arrested, or Grandma Blossom, who has only been faking being in a wheelchair this whole time. Or Mary Andrews!

The entire "building a prison as the moneymaker basis of a corrupt empire" subplot was a mistake from minute one on a show like this, so of course they bring it back up again. This is not the kind of thing they can make compelling for the viewing audience, nor does it organically fit into any other characters' storylines - whether they are the teenagers or the adults. (Except maybe FP as the sheriff and anyone else who gets set to prison in the future.)

In closing, I, too, was a member of "23 Hour Fitness," except the one hour they are closed every day is the one hour I wanted to work out, so we had to part ways. The fine print of the contract I had to sign was only part of our incompatibility.

[WhosThatGirl]

11 minutes ago, sweetandsour said:

Ugh, this show. I am not a regular reader or commenter for Riverdale (though I do regularly watch it), so I apologize if I'm just repeating what others have already said. But anyway. I really don't understand what's going on in the writers' room. Do they not understand that they have put together a show that's comprised of individual characters basically being on their own unrelated show? If I didn't know anything about the cast, I would assume that almost everyone hates working with KJ and vice versa, so they've kept him in storylines where he barely interacts with anyone but the same people over and over. And Veronica is moving more and more to that side as well. They took one of the strongest adults with the snappiest lines (Alice) and turned her into ... this??? For the entire season? I agree with everyone else who must have made comments about how nonsense plots are driving everything, including what characters do and who they align with, instead of the characters informing how the plot is executed. At this rate, I feel we are headed towards the caliber of Glee.

Remember the days when the pieces of the show either meshed together pretty well or were legitimately welcome elements of character/relationship development, except for Archie's wannabe music career??? Oh, to go back to the days of only side-eying that ...

I don't even know if there's any mystery anymore to "who is the Gargoyle King?" since they've already had several characters being the King in certain situations. But if there is an ultimate GK other than Edgar, I'm expecting it to be someone totally random like Principal Weatherbee, the Jingle Jangle teacher from Southside High last season who was arrested, or Grandma Blossom, who has only been faking being in a wheelchair this whole time. Or Mary Andrews!

The entire "building a prison as the moneymaker basis of a corrupt empire" subplot was a mistake from minute one on a show like this, so of course they bring it back up again. This is not the kind of thing they can make compelling for the viewing audience, nor does it organically fit into any other characters' storylines - whether they are the teenagers or the adults. (Except maybe FP as the sheriff and anyone else who gets set to prison in the future.)

In closing, I, too, was a member of "23 Hour Fitness," except the one hour they are closed every day is the one hour I wanted to work out, so we had to part ways. The fine print of the contract I had to sign was only part of our incompatibility.

100% this except for the comments on Alice. I’ve always disliked her and never got the love, so I don’t get comments like she’s so awful now when she always has been.

For me it’s not just the nonsense plots or that the teenagers are acting like teens, I’ve watched plenty a teen show where the teens are acting pretty adult even when they show them in high school, oth did this a few times, pretty little liars, even glee, for me it’s that as I’ve even saying lately, I feel like there’s no fun at all in the show anymore.  Like this show is trying to be crazy whacky ridiculous  fun  and while it’s ridiculous, none of it is all that fun. Like there’s little to no joy with the characters, not even one bright spot. That’s what I miss. Even season 2 when this thing was going downhill Into it’s darkness spiral, I could still some joy interjected into it. I don’t see any here. Even with Archie and Josie who clearly have the only chance for it, is fleeting. Veronica is now entrapped in a super not fun drug dealing plot with her parents and Gladys. Jughead is involved with the gang and that’s bever all that fun for him and Betty is off dealing with her sister and mother and a cult that’s probably going to kill her. And when that’s not her story, she’s sharing secret time with her psychopath father because theshow is trying to force fed us that he’s the only person in her life who can understand her. I’m sorry but can these characters have fun again? I guess not. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[CletusMusashi]

With this site's new-styled forum directory, it actually took me a while to figure out where "Riverdale" was. The show is so fucking loony that at first I checked the section for "genre" shows. Then, I actually checked "comedies" before I remembered that, although it is one of the funniest shows on television, it is not actually meant to be. Finally I realized that it is meant to be some kind of reasonably serious dramatic whatchamathingy, and found it under "dramas." But thinking of "Riverdale" as just a teen drama feels kind of like saying that "Futurama" was a show about parcel delivery.

[AnimeMania]

23 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

With this site's new-styled forum directory, it actually took me a while to figure out where "Riverdale" was. The show is so fucking loony that at first I checked the section for "genre" shows. Then, I actually checked "comedies" before I remembered that, although it is one of the funniest shows on television, it is not actually meant to be. Finally I realized that it is meant to be some kind of reasonably serious dramatic whatchamathingy, and found it under "dramas." But thinking of "Riverdale" as just a teen drama feels kind of like saying that "Futurama" was a show about parcel delivery.

Here is the link that shows all the TV shows in alphabetical order.     https://forums.previously.tv/shows/

[Pony Girl]

This last episode once again had so many twists and turns it had my head spinning like a top. First, Alice and her baptism at the farm and Betty doing everything to try and stop her from going through with it. In the end we see an almost catastrophe happen until Betty saves the day out of Polly's hands. It also looks in a twist of things that Kevin may be interested in joining the farm now that Moose is out of the picture.  Second, I was glad glad that Archie did not throw the fight and stood in there and Kevin's dad trained him and was in his corner. Archie gave it his all in the fight and did great. I was also glad to see that Josie was a ring side. Lastly, Jughead's Mom continues to weave her web now in Riverdale and it seems like she don't give a damn who she needs to control or take down in the process. I look forward to more Miss Jones and even Jellybean in the future.