S03.E07: A Public Inconvenience

[TigerLynx]

22 hours ago, Nolefan said:

I keep thinking that we could have been spared all this stupid Feodora s&@t if Victoria had just bought Feodora a couple of new dresses in Episode 1. Still don’t understand why Victoria was so cold to Feodora when Feodora showed up wearing rags. After the first episode, Victoria never again mentioned the whole Feodora “left her” to get married lame explanation for the initial hostility Victoria had towards Feodora. I know I’m in the minority, but Albert was right — Victoria (the richest woman in the world) was acting like a stingy child in regard to Feodora. But, I really don’t care because it was ALL MADE UP. Why can’t the writers stick closer to real history??? It is so much better than this crap they make up!!

Not only is it made up, but the idiot writers didn't even bother to address their own made up premise - Feo resents Vic for something mommy did.  Instead they have Vic and Albert acting like three year olds throwing things, and stomping off in a huff.  What would have been so hard about Vic telling Al why Feo resents her, and Al asking Vic if she could perhaps try to be more understanding of Feo even though Feo is wrong for her resentment, and Vic trying to be the better person?  Instead it's Al tells Vic he no longer lover her, Vic must get Al's love back, so she bribes Al and Feo.  What happens the next time Al or Feo get mad at Vic?  She bribes them again?

4 hours ago, Morlock said:

If I recall correctly the offer of leading the Army was also to distract him from the exhibition he was planning because the press was mocking him. In other words they just wanted him to do something else even if he had no interest or knowledge in it. 

I have noticed lots of feminist propaganda throughout the series. Especially in Season 1 where they portrayed her as some kind of helpless damsel surrounded by power hungry men keen to use her. I don't think it would have been all that different for a young King to be honest. Look at how Albert is treated at times he is also approached by many people hoping to gain his interest. 

I realize this is a soap opera but it is based on real events and people I wish they would drop with the modern politics and morality and just tell us the real stories. 

Yes, lots of young kings were in exactly this position, and a lot of older kings and queens as well.  Of course, some of those kings and queens were more than happy to take advantage of or abuse their own position and power.

[Nolefan]

12 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

Not only is it made up, but the idiot writers didn't even bother to address their own made up premise - Feo resents Vic for something mommy did.  Instead they have Vic and Albert acting like three year olds throwing things, and stomping off in a huff.  What would have been so hard about Vic telling Al why Feo resents her, and Al asking Vic if she could perhaps try to be more understanding of Feo even though Feo is wrong for her resentment, and Vic trying to be the better person?  Instead it's Al tells Vic he no longer lover her, Vic must get Al's love back, so she bribes Al and Feo.  What happens the next time Al or Feo get mad at Vic?  She bribes them again?

I feel bad for Jenna Coleman. Victoria is the star of the show, yet she got such a weak (or nonexistent) storyline. On top of it all, the show allowed Laurence Fox to outshine her. It seems that all anyone is talking about is his character. It is the same thing that happened with Lord M and Rufus Sewell. Ms. Coleman, this season, has been made into a supporting character in her own show. Ms. Coleman is a brilliant actor, and she deserves so much better than this. Hope the writers fix things and she agrees to come back for another season. But, after what she got this season, I wouldn’t blame her for not wanting to return.

[Razzberry]

On 2/25/2019 at 6:23 PM, Nolefan said:

Why can’t the writers stick closer to real history??? It is so much better than this crap they make up!!

I think it's arrogance on the writer's part.  Michael Hirst (Vikings) claims it can't be both historically accurate  and entertaining, which is hogwash.  As if that explains Ubbe the Dane heading the Anglo Saxon army against the Danes and Alfred the Great taking lessons from him!

I don't mind the small things, but this wholesale rewriting of history is ridiculous.

[iMonrey]

They could have done a story about Victoria and her siblings (she's got a brother out there somewhere too) without it making everyone look like an idiot. They could have kept their mother in the picture and have Feodora take her resentments out on her. They could have used Victoria's brother in some sort of romance like they did with Ernst and Harriet, instead of some footman nobody cares about. Lots of possibilities here, they just need smarter writing.

Instead we've got Feodora whispering in Albert's ear every chance she gets and being about as subtle as an anvil falling on your head, and Albert looks like an idiot for falling for it. If your story only works if your characters are stupid, you aren't writing a good story.

[kris4n6]

5 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I think it's arrogance on the writer's part.  Michael Hirst (Vikings) claims it can't be both historically accurate  and entertaining, which is hogwash.  As if that explains Ubbe the Dane heading the Anglo Saxon army against the Danes and Alfred the Great taking lessons from him!

I don't mind the small things, but this wholesale rewriting of history is ridiculous.

DG's arrogance is off the charts.  I checked the "Victoria and Albert: A Royal Love Affair" out of the library and have read a few chapters.  She has written in at least one spot about how the Lord Melbourne/Victoria love story from season one was actually accurate and in other places has thrown in what is clearly her made up opinion as "fact".  It's enough to make me want to throw the book at someone (preferably her).

Edited February 28, 2019 by kris4n6

[tennisgurl]

Seriously, why does this show hate Albert so much?! Is it because the show runner was a big Victoria/Lord M shipper, and is still salty that she cant go THAT far away from what actually happened in the actual world? Or does she think that the only way to write a Strong Female Character is give them some asshole man to get wins against? I dont get why thats supposed to be more interesting than what actually happened?! Albert and Victoria were really interesting people, why not focus on them at least somewhat closer to who they actually were? Yeah Albert was often a difficult man, but he had a lot of good qualities as well, and he and Victoria were very much in love. They used to be aware of all of that, even a bit in the start of the season, but lately, its been "Albert is an asshole, and Victoria is pissed at him" all the damn time!

Anyway, I did enjoy seeing Albert work on the Great Exhibition and the Crystal Palace even getting a name drop! A lot of that did seem pretty true to life, as many people leading up to it did have a lot of the same fears that people mentioned in the show, like that it would be unsightly, would take up room, too many "foreignness" would be around possibly upstaging England, and of course, the fear that it would soon become a hotbed of anarchists and revolutionaries, the bogymen of their time. 

Spoiler

Spoilers for historical facts: I guess its unfair to judge people for being skeptical, as at the time, no one had any idea that this crazy idea would be an amazing financial and cultural smash hit that would be massively successful, be a signature moment and high point of the Victorian era, and would inspire many other events like it going into the 21st century, and hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but come on guys! Take a chance!

This whole Duchess and the Footman plot is basically a bodice ripper from the paperback wracks my mom pretends she doesent read, except remarkably less interesting! At least those books know what they are and what they're audience wants. This is some inter-class melodrama right in the middle of what is supposed to be a prestigious historical costume drama! It has the evil, Snidley Whiplash style aristocratic husband, the sad but sweet beautiful wealthy woman, the strapping poor guy, clandestine romps on the beach and in the back rooms, and now the sweet lady is a damsel in distress, and only her strapping poor guy can save her! Or something, I dont even know. Really, I just feel bad for her son, who is just a sweet innocent little kid, now stuck with only his evil heartless father and what is probably a horribly harsh boarding school. And now he had to watch his mother get dragged off to the insane asylum by his awful father. And his mom might have been about to run off and leave him behind anyway. Poor kid. 

I mean, it sucks that she cant just divorce the guy, and society sucks for women and all that, but its all so melodramatic, and its not exactly what I signed up for with this show!

[Calvada]

I'm sure this plotline with the Duchess and the footman is leading up to the scenes where Victoria goes to the insane asylum to rescue the Duchess, is overwhelmed by the conditions of the place, makes her famous "Something must be done!" statement and thus becomes the champion of humane treatment of the mentally ill that we all remember as her lasting legacy,  

What's that?  That never happened?  Oh well . . . why let facts get in the way?  That seems to be the theme of this season.  

[3 is enough]

With respect to the Duchess and the footman, as ridiculous as the storyline is, I got the impression that the Duchess had no intentions of running away with Joseph. When she found out her son was home she left the palace immediately to go see him. I doubt she would have ever considered leaving him behind and starting a new life in America. 

[Morlock]

19 hours ago, Nolefan said:

I feel bad for Jenna Coleman. Victoria is the star of the show, yet she got such a weak (or nonexistent) storyline. On top of it all, the show allowed Laurence Fox to outshine her. It seems that all anyone is talking about is his character. It is the same thing that happened with Lord M and Rufus Sewell. Ms. Coleman, this season, has been made into a supporting character in her own show. Ms. Coleman is a brilliant actor, and she deserves so much better than this. Hope the writers fix things and she agrees to come back for another season. But, after what she got this season, I wouldn’t blame her for not wanting to return.

I agree. If we compare this to a similar themed show "The Crown" you can see how "The Crown" is a lot better. Do we care about the lives and dramas of the servants when the show is called "Victoria"? I know I don't at all. As I mentioned in another post sometimes it gets confusing trying to work out what they made up and what is fact. I know there will always be some conjecture in this shows to fill in gaps and help the storyline but so often in this program you can just tell it is bullshit. 

[Notwisconsin]

They just disappeared all of Feo's sons and a couple of daughters.  Ug. I hope there isn't a fourth season or they have a time-jump of ten years and have it all focus on Vicky Jr. and her very soapy life in Prussia.

[Brn2bwild]

36 minutes ago, Notwisconsin said:

They just disappeared all of Feo's sons and a couple of daughters.  Ug. I hope there isn't a fourth season or they have a time-jump of ten years and have it all focus on Vicky Jr. and her very soapy life in Prussia.

I'd totally go for a spinoff about Victoria's daughters in Germany.

[penguinnj]

12 hours ago, Morlock said:

If we compare this to a similar themed show "The Crown" you can see how "The Crown" is a lot better. Do we care about the lives and dramas of the servants when the show is called "Victoria"? I know I don't at all.

I still don't know the name of the lady in waiting who clocked to the Duchess and the footman early on.  Downton made you care about downstairs, but none of these subsequent historical shows- which borrow heavily from its success- have ever managed to do it.

[kris4n6]

2 hours ago, penguinnj said:

I still don't know the name of the lady in waiting who clocked to the Duchess and the footman early on.  Downton made you care about downstairs, but none of these subsequent historical shows- which borrow heavily from its success- have ever managed to do it.

Lady Emma Portman.  I had to look it up but I do now remember Melbourne calling her Lady Emma in the first season.

[3 is enough]

8 hours ago, Notwisconsin said:

They just disappeared all of Feo's sons and a couple of daughters

Yes! The real Feodora had 3 sons and 3 daughters.  There is no way she would have said "So many children!" in a condescending tone as was shown when she first arrived at the palace and met the family.  But I guess if you are making shit up you might as well go all in.

[Nire]

One thing I do like is that the children being shown and developed now will hopefully mean we'll get to see them play a major role as they get older.  

[Haleth]

On 2/25/2019 at 12:52 PM, iMonrey said:

They have certainly made some odd choices this season. I can understand if David Oakes was not available but if that's not the case it made no sense to eliminate a fan favorite like Ernst. 

The only real emotional punch of the season was the death of Skerrett, which was done rather well. Unfortunately none of the new characters they introduced were the least bit interesting. I get that they're going for a Lady Sybil and the Chauffeur storyline with the Duchess and the Footman but they never fleshed out these characters or made us care about them. The reveal that Joseph had been paid off by some other Duke for the same indiscretion was probably the most interesting thing about the story, but even if he turns out to be a villain I still don't care about Sophie.

The worst decision was this fictional drama with Feodora because it makes everyone look bad. It makes the writers look bad because they seem to understand this story would never have gotten off the ground if Victoria's mother was still around, so they simply ignored her existence and refused to address it. It also made Albert look like an insufferable idiot because he spent the whole season dismissive of his wife and letting this rather obviously sketchy woman get into his head. 

I don't know how they course correct going forward but dumping Feodora would be the most important first step. They also need to stop relying so much on Victoria and Albert squabbling for the sake of drama because it's gotten to the point where we don't even like these characters anymore. 

I guess the only good thing about this episode was that they finally made up at the end. Let's hope it sticks.

This.  Every.single.point.

The only other suggestion I'd have is to find better child actors.  The kids playing Bertie and Vicky are terrible.

[Brn2bwild]

8 hours ago, Nire said:

One thing I do like is that the children being shown and developed now will hopefully mean we'll get to see them play a major role as they get older.  

Yes, let the stories about the children eclipse the stories about the servants, please.

[Zella]

26 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

Yes, let the stories about the children eclipse the stories about the servants, please.

Oh my God. It's like Sophie's Choice. . . .

[Brn2bwild]

6 hours ago, Zella said:

Oh my God. It's like Sophie's Choice. . . .

Hopefully the older child actors will be better.  Not that it will matter if the writing is awful.

[Ohmo]

On 3/1/2019 at 5:31 PM, Brn2bwild said:

Hopefully the older child actors will be better.  Not that it will matter if the writing is awful.

Again, mileage because I think the actors who play Bertie and Vicky play very well off of each other.  I'm not talking about the writing.  They're not in charge of that, but I think they really come across as brother and sister.  I thought the whole exchange about primogeniture when Victoria was in labor with Louise was hilarious, and the two kids seem to have nice timing with each other for being so young.

I don't really have much to say about this episode.  I hope Penge doesn't turn out to have helped the Duke.  I'm not all that invested in Sophie and Joseph, but I always have though that Penge has a sense of honor and humanity even though he's very stern.  The thought that he would help a putz like the Duke would be a major bummer.

[izabella]

2 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I don't really have much to say about this episode.  I hope Penge doesn't turn out to have helped the Duke.  I'm not all that invested in Sophie and Joseph, but I always have though that Penge has a sense of honor and humanity even though he's very stern.  The thought that he would help a putz like the Duke would be a major bummer.

I agree, I will be very disappointed in Penge if he really did/does help the evil Duke. 

[seacliffsal]

I'm really hoping that Penge DID help the Duke if it means that this story line is over...

No matter how "fictionalized" this series is, there is no way that Joseph would have kept his job with all of his disappearances and wanderings throughout the palace (not to mention his eavesdropping).  Contrary to the writers' thoughts, footmen did not have the run of the palace and hours of free time during the day.

[Zella]

I'm really okay with Penge helping the Duke. It's a plot development that would be mildly more interesting than most things that have happened this season. 

[Kohola3]

2 hours ago, izabella said:

I agree, I will be very disappointed in Penge if he really did/does help the evil Duke. 

Wasn't Penge squirreling away purloined bottles of wine at one point?  And he certainly doesn't have any great love for the footman.  I can see him doing it for the money, I'm sure he doesn't have many other opportunities to boost his fortune and it's not like he got a pension or anything.

[Nolefan]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

I'm really okay with Penge helping the Duke. It's a plot development that would be mildly more interesting than most things that have happened this season. 

2 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I'm really hoping that Penge DID help the Duke if it means that this story line is over...

No matter how "fictionalized" this series is, there is no way that Joseph would have kept his job with all of his disappearances and wanderings throughout the palace (not to mention his eavesdropping).  Contrary to the writers' thoughts, footmen did not have the run of the palace and hours of free time during the day.

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

Wasn't Penge squirreling away purloined bottles of wine at one point?  And he certainly doesn't have any great love for the footman.  I can see him doing it for the money, I'm sure he doesn't have many other opportunities to boost his fortune and it's not like he got a pension or anything.

I hope Penge helped the Duke as well. Would serve Joseph right for his crappy work ethic and attitude and for blackmailing the prior Duke. I am laying the Sophie stuff squarely at his doorstep. I also think it would be more realistic. And we better not get Lord Palmerston rescuing Sophie from the asylum. The way they have portrayed him caring so much for Sophie is utter BS to me. I can’t believe any of the other husbands back in that day and age would go against Monmouth — women were viewed as property back then, and I am pretty sure the other husbands would not be judgmental of him. But I have a feeling the only husband that will be against a Sophie rescue will be Albert, as this show is unable to resist any opportunity to make him look like the lone asshole, especially with regard to women and children, when he probably would have been most sensitive to Sophie’s situation due to what happened to his mother.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Nolefan

[Bunnyette]

On 2/28/2019 at 12:36 AM, 3 is enough said:

With respect to the Duchess and the footman, as ridiculous as the storyline is, I got the impression that the Duchess had no intentions of running away with Joseph. When she found out her son was home she left the palace immediately to go see him. I doubt she would have ever considered leaving him behind and starting a new life in America. 

But surely living in a tent pitched in muddy goldfields would be so much better especially with a hunky footman😁

[b2H]

On 3/3/2019 at 9:21 AM, Ohmo said:

Again, mileage because I think the actors who play Bertie and Vicky play very well off of each other. 

I'm not sure if the two child actors are related, but I love that they at least look like siblings when together.

[Brattinella]

On 3/4/2019 at 11:32 AM, b2H said:

I'm not sure if the two child actors are related, but I love that they at least look like siblings when together.

They do look very much alike.

[Morlock]

On 2/27/2019 at 11:43 AM, TigerLynx said:

Not only is it made up, but the idiot writers didn't even bother to address their own made up premise - Feo resents Vic for something mommy did.  Instead they have Vic and Albert acting like three year olds throwing things, and stomping off in a huff.  What would have been so hard about Vic telling Al why Feo resents her, and Al asking Vic if she could perhaps try to be more understanding of Feo even though Feo is wrong for her resentment, and Vic trying to be the better person?  Instead it's Al tells Vic he no longer lover her, Vic must get Al's love back, so she bribes Al and Feo.  What happens the next time Al or Feo get mad at Vic?  She bribes them again?

Yes, lots of young kings were in exactly this position, and a lot of older kings and queens as well.  Of course, some of those kings and queens were more than happy to take advantage of or abuse their own position and power.

Thinking about this again I think Victoria has an advantage in being female and young, not to mention an attractive Queen as well. She gets to ask questions, she is allowed to not know because no one expects a woman to know anything anyway. 

The Prince on the other hand has to at least pretend to know as he cannot afford to appear ignorant. Quite often he is amazed by some new idea or science when he should be questioning it. But he doesn't because I think he knows he can't defeat the person in argument a lot of the time. Even if he is right. 

[Linderhill]

I never figure Penge would go thru with informing on Stupid Footman and Stupid Duchess.  Once the duke mentioned that Penge may have to testify I was sure of it.  A high ranked servant like Penge, in reality, would never want to expose the royal household to such a scandal of testifying in court.  He'd would definitely lose that high ranking job overseeing the Queen's household.  

[Tyro49]

Surely the Queen will notice that one of her favorite ladies-in-waiting has disappeared?