S33.E02: Hellraiser

[OnceSane]

Quote

Challengers battle head-to-head in the exhausting "Arms-a-geddon Tired" challenge; two teams wrestle for survival in a brutal elimination; Bananas performs an exorcism on a player that he deems "the spawn of Satan."

Airs February 12, 2019.

[UGAmp]

A challenge AND an elimination? In the SAME episode?! AND it got rid of Ashley? We have been blessed! 

Zack is the worst again with that complete manipulation of Jenna. Jenna, you’re better than this, girl! Even if he didn’t cheat, the whole argument was gross to witness. And that’s how he talked to her when he knew he was being filmed. Yuck.

I think Davonne is my new favorite. “That’s a hard pill to swallow. Let me go and get you some water.” Amazing. 

[Jillibean]

Okay. Well...

I want to like Zach for Jenna’s sake, because she clearly loves him and wants to be with him, but eesh. She should not watch this and be pleased with the way she was treated. I see she did an interview already saying the reason she apologized is that she and Zach had agreed before the season to discuss any personal/relationship issues that came up when they got home and not on camera. I still don’t think she owed him any sort of apology, and he behaved like a giant drama queen baby. If the thing he were being accused of seemed even remotely plausible, I’d think he was reacting with guilt.

However, I don’t buy it. I can’t imagine any reason Zach would show Amanda, of all people, his online dating profile if he were actually using it. He’s not a Rhodes scholar by a long shot. He’s also not the world’s biggest idiot. When the Brooke thing happened, Zach was done with Jenna and wasn’t trying to hide it. He was basically just ending his relationship with Jenna (having moved on already) without actually having to speak to her about it. I think he did the exact same thing to Jonna. At this point he wants to be with Jenna so he’s not going to throw himself under the bus. 

I don’t watch Floribama shore. Is Gus a good dude? Maybe she should take up with him, instead. 

[Lantern7]

Latest concern about WotW: did it blow it's figurative load too early? We wound up with Hunter vs. Ashley. Even if they weren't on the field at the same time, that would basically be the main event in most of the prior seasons. With something like that, you'd expect people skipping the Internet altogether, screaming about the match while running through the streets, because EVERYONE HAD TO KNOW.

While we had a mission and a Killing Floor (commence to eyeroll) in one episode, the rules still seem messed up.

1. The top three teams in each mission are put into the Tribunal. I don't think half of them can spell "Tribunal." They probably just learned "Troika."
2. The Tribunal gathers in secret, and they determine three teams to nominate for the Killing Floor. BTW, try telling someone about this IRL and say "Killing Floor" with a straight face.
3. The nominated teams are brought to the Tribunal to make their cases not to go. So, basically, "Dance, monkey! Dance for my pleasure!!!!"
4. At the Killing Floor, each member of the Tribunal votes individually. Team with the most votes is sent in.
5. Nominated team then has its choice of opponents from the field, save for the Tribunal.
6. Apparently, the winning team gets something called a "Relic," which will probably be resulting from focus groups losing focus. Oh, and the losing team goes home. They do not get a second chance, they do not collect $200.

I don't think any system works for this show. Final Reckoning had secret votes and the concept of "put up or shut up," and that didn't go as planned. And immediately, the first Tribunal basically tore into each other in nominating teams. Great start, right?

Nice mission . . . prolonged tug-of-war with a monster truck thrown in. Is it bad that I think the results could be rigged for maximum drama? You'd have to take Teege's word for it as to which teams performed best. It's not like you'd have one guy with all of the rope and his opponent pulled through both windows.

Fighting, more fighting, and Zach more or less cheating on Jenna again, and then he tries to present himself as the good guy. Jenna can do better. She's sweet, she's not a total bitch, and she is incredibly lovely to look at in person.

Killing Floor: It's basically Balls In with more sand to run through and the ball getting delivered by drone.It's also best-of-3, alternating between genders, and I don't know how the deciding round is picked. Thankfully, Morgan wins hearts and minds by scoring the decisive point, sending Smashley and some dope from The Bachleorette out of the game. And anybody who made deals with Smashley might be screwed. Good.

Oh, and Johnny gets to (figuratively) beat off all episode. He probably begs BMP to pop up behind Wes during interviews, waving a "GOD HATES GINGERS" sign.

Next Week: A Legend Falls. Hopefully, it won't be hyperbole.

[TiffanyNichelle]

Oh Hunter you are a complete meathead but at least you had the smarts to actually call out Ashley in the elimination. That was so sweet! Of course his obsession with Johnny no longer makes sense. I feel like Johnny doesn't even really see Hunter as an actual rival. I think he cares more about Wes. He just messes with Hunter. I loved that one rookie who was all "are they fighting about things that happened 17 years ago? Let it go!" In fact I love that all the rookies this season are just over the vets obsession with old useless grudges.

Zach is slime. I felt really uncomfortable with that glimpse of his relationship with Jenna. So he downloads Bumble under fake name as a "joke"? Seriously? And somehow makes Jenna be the one to apologize and beg him to stay with her? Jenna can do so much better. I do like that Da'vonne was not going to be part of it in any way.

But who cares cause Ashley is gone!!! Yay! I loved that Cara Maria called her out for trying to act like not a threat when she's won two challenges. Like come on.

[RandomWatcher]

30 minutes ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

Oh Hunter you are a complete meathead but at least you had the smarts to actually call out Ashley in the elimination. That was so sweet! Of course his obsession with Johnny no longer makes sense. I feel like Johnny doesn't even really see Hunter as an actual rival. I think he cares more about Wes. He just messes with Hunter. I loved that one rookie who was all "are they fighting about things that happened 17 years ago? Let it go!" In fact I love that all the rookies this season are just over the vets obsession with old useless grudges.

Zach is slime. I felt really uncomfortable with that glimpse of his relationship with Jenna. So he downloads Bumble under fake name as a "joke"? Seriously? And somehow makes Jenna be the one to apologize and beg him to stay with her? Jenna can do so much better. I do like that Da'vonne was not going to be part of it in any way.

But who cares cause Ashley is gone!!! Yay! I loved that Cara Maria called her out for trying to act like not a threat when she's won two challenges. Like come on.

Better to be a meathead like Hunter than a meatball like Josh.

[hjmugillecuty]

Lantern7–Hunter is paired with Georgia not Morgan. Morgan is with Bananas. But honestly, I mixed them up myself during the episode.

Its ridiculous cause I don’t even know them but I just want Jenna to be happy. I’m starting to get worried that she’s going to end up in Michigan with no way home when Zach pulls this crap again. Did love Davonne just noping out of the room when Amanda tried to make her a witness. 

I need some of the prospects to say to Bananas that they don’t care how he thinks the game is played, it’s time to change it and there’s enough of them to do it.

[scrb]

Have they said which country they’re in?  Odd that TJ didn’t say, “this ends your time in   ...”

Jenna still has some of the doormat in her, lets Zack gaslight her.  She didn’t have a job when she first came on The Challenge and wouldn’t be surprised if that’s still the case.

I never keep track of which alliances there are or how the numbers break down.  I thought the UK people outnumbered every other group but if most of the vets are banding together, they may have the numbers.  

Hunter made an understandably emotional decision, because he is not in a big group and he might have had to ally with Ashley at least temporarily to try to survive against the larger groups.

the actual Challenge as usual didn’t really show who won.  Again we’re suppose to trust   Whom the producers said won.

What was odd was that most of the teams chose opponents which didn’t make sense.  For instance, Zach chose Leroy — aren’t they in an alliance with Bananas?  But why wouldn’t Zach choose an opponent who was much weaker than him?  He might be stronger than Leroy but there are probably weaker opponents than Leroy.  The other teams made similar choices except Bananas, who probably believed he was stronger than Wes.

the elimination was kind of a crapshoot.  With all that space, most people would not be able to tackle the opponent with the ball.  Most of the wins were from one competitor getting to the ball (or it bouncing closer to one player) and just easily evading being tackled or grabbed.

Hunter played some football so he probably would be one of the best competitors in this  elim8nation.  He was able to tackle and wrestle Chase out of the ring and then juke around him to score almost untouched.

In any event the two teams in the elimination probably would have been better off teaming up against Bananas than eliminating each other.

[strippedhalo]

Hopefully Hunter will shut up now about Ashley stealing his money. I already hate him the most, and listening to him whine does not help. (I get that it was a lot of money, and that people feel sorry for him, and that he can use that to his advantage. But it's also incredibly annoying.) Johnny can also shut up, about everything.

I love that CT has no time for in-house drama, but gets the heart eyes when there is drama during the actual eliminations. I fear that he may be the legend that falls next week, or whatever they said, but I hope not.

Amanda continues to be the worst, as does Zach. I do think that Jenna should have left Zach alone when he asked her to, but like. Left him alone forever. She needs a Cohutta or a... who is another Challenge guy that isn't terrible to women?

[Racj82]

11 hours ago, UGAmp said:

A challenge AND an elimination? In the SAME episode?! AND it got rid of Ashley? We have been blessed! 

Zack is the worst again with that complete manipulation of Jenna. Jenna, you’re better than this, girl! Even if he didn’t cheat, the whole argument was gross to witness. And that’s how he talked to her when he knew he was being filmed. Yuck.

I think Davonne is my new favorite. “That’s a hard pill to swallow. Let me go and get you some water.” Amazing. 

She's not better than this. She has shown herself to not be better than this. She seems to be a sweet girl but she can't let it go of this douchebag so I really have no investment in her plight. She entered the relationships knowing he ghosted someone while sharing a relationship with them. No reason to do it other than he was over the relationship. That's who you choose to date. Good luck with that brand of asshole.

[Jwd]

YES!!  That was one of the best eliminations on this show EVER, right up there when CT carried Johnny like a backpack!  Goodbye Ashley! I am so glad Hunters team won, I was literally jumping up and down and cheering, lol. 

On the flip side, I now completely and utterly dislike Zach.  He's a total douche.  Treating Jenna like that was so wrong.  

Can't wait for next week. 🙂

Edited February 14, 2019 by Jwd

[Irritable]

I need this show to be on more than once a week, this season is already a thousand times better than the last one.

Sorry to see Chase go, but he was waaaay too sane and dignified to go far with this group anyway.  So happy to see Ashley go!!! Now I just need to watch Hunter, Josh, Amanda, Zach and Bananas leave in shame, and the rest of the show will be perfect for me.

Josh in the top 3 for that challenge??!??? I smell bullshit.  All the top teams made me suspicious, really, but as long as Ashley gone is the result, I’ll allow it.  The only good thing about Josh being back is that he is paired with someone as horrible as he is, and it’s just a matter of time until they are at each other’s throats.  

Jenna apologizing to Zach after he flipped the whole situation into her being at fault?  Oh hell no, I do not want to see that shit, it infuriates me.  I don’t know why she is so determined to be with him. She’s ignored so many red flags with him, and she’s old enough now to treat herself better. 

I think I like all the rookies? That’s weird and refreshing, but I don’t expect it to last.

[angelamh66]

Ahh, there’s the Zach I know and hate. The gaslighting is real. And Jenna looks way too thin. Like problematically thin. Makes me think she is trying to control her weight and food intake because she has no control in her relationship. Granted that’s based on watching her on tv for a few years, so what do I know...

Bye bye Chase and Ashley. I am overjoyed that Ashley is the first to go. And Chase, your poor judgment continues. From dating freaking Tomi Lahren, to picking Smashley as a partner, to going on Ex on the Beach at all. 

[crookedjackson44]

That elimination was far from being great, but I join in the general acclaim and joy that Ashley is gone.

[mojoween]

Amanda trying to tell Morgan to think for herself was fucking rich, considering I bet just yesterday Amanda called Ashley to ask if it was ok for her to turn over in bed.

They are both stupendous crotchmonsters.  Does Amanda ever LISTEN to herself?

Josh you suck forevermore.  You just got saved because someone broke their hand and you run through the house like a rabid toddler?  Shut up.

Chase was not in any way made for this game.

[RHJunkie]

Have I entered the twilight zone? Did I witness a challenge and a full elimination all in one episode?

The satanic references to Amanda...I'm down for her. The undeserved air of superiority is exhausting to watch...I can't imagine having to put up with that in person. The devil is in that one.

I really don't understand how Hunter got that riled up...he obviously didn't learn his lesson from last season because it was that temper and saying stupid shit when angry that Ashley cited as the reason she was going to take all the money and run, lol.

I think I could watch a weekly episode of just DayVon's confessionals, lol. That's right girl, you mind your business and keep your eyes on the prize, haha.

Oh, there's the idiot Zack poking his head out. You're still alive and well I see. I don't believe he downloaded the app in Africa 'to check and see if it worked', lol, but I'm not entirely convinced that he was actively using the app only because if it were anything more than a joke, could he truly be that stupid to share that with Amanda of all people? But maybe he is that stupid because whether a joke or serious, why he would share that with anyone beyond his actual friends in the house that he trusts, I can't fathom. If you want out of the living hell, stop making stupid decisions that create that hell for you. I can see his reaction being a defense mechanism because he doesn't want to be beaten down over his fuck up and walking away is how he maintains his control, however, he's fucked Jenna over so many times that he should know by now to be  better, do better and suck it up and take the punches because he fucked up and he deserved them. Zack said he would never cheat on her and has never cheated on her because he's not cut from that cloth...wasn't there was season where she called him and he called her a different girl's name and it turned out he cheated on her?...Or did he never actually admit to cheating on her ever that time?

Bye Ashley. Amanda...hopefully your turn will be soon.

[Cherry Cola]

I laughed so hard when Hunter tried to jump the stair rail to get back inside and it collapsed and he landed on top of the lower rail like an idiot. I rewound that way too many times. 

Amanda is gross and creepy. 

Poor Jenna.  Get yourself a good guy! You are worth it. I hated seeing Zach manipulate her. That was awful. 

[scrb]

Amanda probably gets reinvented to the Challenges because she stirs up drama and antagonizes people.

But of course Bunim-Murray favors Bananas so they put on satanic graphic overlays for Bananas' dumb exorcism schtick.

She seems to have brought together all the AYTO and others who arrived together a few seasons ago as a pack.  Otherwise, the first season they were on the Challenge, they were easily picked off one by one.

All she was telling the dumb blonde was that she didn't have to go along with everything that Bananas told her, even if she is his partner.

It hasn't helped Natalie or even a better example, Leroy to be one of Bananas' lackey.

[Jobiska]

17 hours ago, scrb said:

Have they said which country they’re in?  Odd that TJ didn’t say, “this ends your time in   ...”

That is so weird, I agree.  I saw a snake moving across the sand in a sidewinder fashion.  I thought sidewinders were only from the southwestern US, but I looked them up and there are two viper species in Angola/Namibia/Kalahari desert area that locomote in that manner.  Considering that the "relic" is obviously African or African-inspired, I guess that's the desert environment they're tearing up with monster trucks and four wheelers.

Glad screechy Ashley is gone.  Now we only have one Ashley who I guess is still doomed to have his last initial on his outfits.  

I will say Da'Vonne is a good narrator and delivers her talking head zingers naturally.  That goes a long way in my book!  

Johnny's favorite phrase about Wes is "piece of shit."  How original.  

[Al Herkimer]

11 hours ago, Racj82 said:

She's not better than this. She has shown herself to not be better than this. She seems to be a sweet girl but she can't let it go of this douchebag so I really have no investment in her plight. She entered the relationships knowing he ghosted someone while sharing a relationship with them. No reason to do it other than he was over the relationship. That's who you choose to date. Good luck with that brand of asshole.

I used to scoff at her, but this has gone on for so many years that I guess there must be something legitimately wrong with her (beside being fairly dumb).

[Coco88]

Underdog Bananas is tolerable.  In power Bananas is a douche canoe.  Even if directed towards other douche canoes

[Al Herkimer]

In true Challenge fashion, I'm still unclear about the prize(s).  One team splits a million dollars?  One person gets the million, or can steal half from their partner?  Six teams split 1st, 2nd and 3rd prizes that total a million?

[scrb]

4 minutes ago, Al Herkimer said:

In true Challenge fashion, I'm still unclear about the prize(s).  One team splits a million dollars?  One person gets the million, or can steal half from their partner?  Six teams split 1st, 2nd and 3rd prizes that total a million?

I'm sure they're holding those details for later in the season.  So the players can hold their head and widen their eyes at how great it is.

One of the twists or surprises may be actually announcing where the fuck they are.

[Lantern7]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

One of the twists or surprises may be actually announcing where the fuck they are.

According to Wikipedia, it's Namibia. I'd add "jackass," but I don't know how many old-school fans of The Amazing Race are reading this.

2 hours ago, Al Herkimer said:

I used to scoff at her, but this has gone on for so many years that I guess there must be something legitimately wrong with her (beside being fairly dumb).

I think Jenna has had the potential to be the prime heroine for years . . . something we need now that Cara Maria has basically cratered. And I wasn't kidding about how good she looks in person . . . I would've made a play, but you can fit a college freshman between our birth years. Also, my social anxiety. And reality in general,

5 hours ago, mojoween said:

Josh you suck forevermore.  You just got saved because someone broke their hand and you run through the house like a rabid toddler?  Shut up.

Last night, I quipped on Facebook that he looks like someone who would win Big Brother. Yeah, that's a crap insult, especially with Da'vonne breaking from the pack, but I stand by it. Josh looks legit dumb.

[mojoween]

Josh is dumb.  His go-to insult is calling someone “meatball.”  I will contend from now until the end of time that he did not win BB; rather, Paul lost and Josh was the victor because he was sitting in the other chair.

Josh does not see it that way, naturally, so his arrogance is off the map.  He and Amanda deserve each other.

[Lantern7]

2 hours ago, mojoween said:

Josh is dumb.  His go-to insult is calling someone “meatball.”  I will contend from now until the end of time that he did not win BB; rather, Paul lost and Josh was the victor because he was sitting in the other chair.

Josh does not see it that way, naturally, so his arrogance is off the map.  He and Amanda deserve each other.

So I’m right to disparage him, and thus the series itself? He calls people “meatball”? Does he not notice his hair is pasta and he sweats Ragu? Sadly, he’ll probably make it to the end, like Devin and Cheyenne after they lost the first elimination in Rivals III, and Paulie & Natalie after losing three elimination matches. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[Neveragain]

I remember when Jenna first came onto our TVs because she was Jays ex-gf in Real World Explosion, where the concept was the seven houseguests get surprised in the house by their exes moving in like a week later.  (This is the season with Cory and horrible Ashley as well)  While they were original houseguests, Jenna was one of the exes.  I just looked it up and it’s from 2013. Here is a screenshot of the description of Jenna.  If you substitute the word Zach for the word Jay, this could have been written today. She hasn’t changed at all.  Which is a shame on many levels, but especially because she’s now 6 years older, with reality fame of her own.  She should have progressed by now.   This snapshot doesn’t show half how badly Jay treated her, I think I remember he would only see/speak to her on Sundays, stuff like that.  And she cried and begged for forgiveness over and over, just like now.  Plus let’s not forgot what a shit she was when Jonna was heartbroken about Zach, and Jenna and him were new and she would cuddle and kiss him constantly in front of her. Jonna had been living with Zach before he ended it with no warning. it was a real relationship. I don’t dislike Jenna but she’s not as sweet as everyone thinks, and she’s also making this choice about Zach with her eyes very wide open.  This is clearly who she is, and I don’t intend to spend another second feeling badly for her.

[Jobiska]

11 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

According to Wikipedia, it's Namibia. I'd add "jackass," but I don't know how many old-school fans of The Amazing Race are reading this.

Whenever it's an answer on a Sporcle (trivia website) quiz, my son and I add "jackass" automatically.  

Topic:  I liked how TJ casually adjusted his cap (or some such move) after he drove over the cars the first time.  

 

[ImpinAintEasy]

I don’t want to jinx it, but so far I am enjoying the return to what seems like a more competition based show. I know they brought back some producer named Justin Booth, who supposedly was in charge from 2007-2015. Everything from Bloodlines to Final Reckoning he was not a part of. And TJ mentioned being disappointed at Final Reckoning not being tough enough. So here’s hoping for more competition and less fake drama. 

Speaking of fake drama, does anyone else think the Wes-Johnny stuff is mostly for show now? It’s not personal like Wes-Kenny was. Don’t get me wrong, I love having Wes back, and he will never work with Johnny, but their barbs at each other are just for entertainment. I wouldn’t call them frenemies, but they are just a rung below that. 

[crookedjackson44]

Don't kid yourselves about Jenna - she has a great ass, which the program has consistently highlighted.  Hell, it even had a beauty contest a few seasons back where she twirled to the amusement of Banana's cousin/whatever.  That is all she has even been to this production.

[Jillibean]

Social media updates!

Jenna did a live last night, and she seemed a bit shaken by the hate she is getting on social media for being with Zach. Anyway, she alleged, among other things:

-The fight was actually about four hours long, on and off, and highly edited

-What she was actually apologizing to him for was locking him in a bathroom and knocking his cap off his head in the heat of anger, which wasn’t shown

-Zach showed the app to everyone while in a production vehicle so all the players eliminated at the same time as he was and all the crew members in the van saw it

-When asked why Zach was on bumble, Jenna admitted that she still doesn’t really know but that she FaceTimed him so consistently in South Africa that she knows he didn’t actually use it. (I feel like WHY he was on bumble under a fake name is a big enough deal that I was surprised she didn’t have a clearer response.)

Also, Amanda says that wasn’t actually the bomb, and I believe her. If you care to look, there’s pretty much a consensus on what the bomb was, with much less of a consensus on whether it’s true.

So there you go, folks. You’re..welcome?

9 hours ago, Neveragain said:

Plus let’s not forgot what a shit she was when Jonna was heartbroken about Zach, and Jenna and him were new and she would cuddle and kiss him constantly in front of her. Jonna had been living with Zach before he ended it with no warning. it was a real relationship.

I don’t think that’s entirely fair. For one thing, at the time they filmed the show Zach and Jonna had been broken up for a long time and he had been in a two year, live-in relationship with Ashlee Feldman—they broke up several months before he filmed Exes. It might not have been Jonna’s favorite thing to watch, but she wasn’t freshly heartbroken over Zach. And Jenna came into that show knowing no one, so it’s not like she betrayed a prior friendship. However, Jonna and Jenna became good friends on that show and supposedly are still on good terms. I’m sure Jenna isn’t all rainbows and sunshine, because frankly no one is, but I also don’t think she’s an unkind person. Insensitive at times maybe, because again, she isn’t a brainiac. But you can’t convince me that if someone told her she was being hurtful she wouldn’t try to alter her behavior as opposed to other people in this cast, who would take that as a compliment. 

[peachmangosteen]

11 hours ago, Jillibean said:

Also, Amanda says that wasn’t actually the bomb, and I believe her. If you care to look, there’s pretty much a consensus on what the bomb was, with much less of a consensus on whether it’s true.

Oooh, details please! I'm assuming it's on the spoiler thread but I don't wanna get spoiled for results.

[Unclejosh]

Think it involves Jenna hooking up with a male castmember known for cheating.  Multiple people have said it isn't true though.  Amanda is also the one who made up the lie about Jenna and Bruno so...

[Jillibean]

45 minutes ago, Unclejosh said:

Think it involves Jenna hooking up with a male castmember known for cheating.  Multiple people have said it isn't true though.  Amanda is also the one who made up the lie about Jenna and Bruno so...

Precisely. I’ll elaborate in tags on the off chance it comes up this season.

Spoiler

Supposedly Amanda was going to “reveal” that Jenna and Tony had hooked up around the time of Dirty Thirty (before Jenna and Zach got back together, so she would have been single at the time though Tony, of course, wasn’t). However, when Amanda found out Tony was proposing, she realized she couldn’t do that after all. She allegedly got this information from Nelson, who “saw” it, but Nelson is now denying ever having seen any such thing. A couple of cast members have also weighed in saying it seems logistically impossible and they’re pretty sure it isn’t true. Jenna hasn’t said anything directly, but she did like a tweet from Jemmye denying it. And she and Alyssa are still on very friendly terms, which makes me thing Alyssa doesn’t think it’s true.

[sally-can-wait]

3 hours ago, Unclejosh said:

Think it involves Jenna hooking up with a male castmember known for cheating.  Multiple people have said it isn't true though.  Amanda is also the one who made up the lie about Jenna and Bruno so...

But that wasn't made up. I specifically remember Jenna admitting to it on the reunion show and for some reason this myth has evolved that Amanda made it up. She didn't. 

[Eolivet]

So, what happened between Zach and Amanda that they hate each other so much? And did I hear right, that there's not usually a challenge and elimination in the same episode?

I thought the challenges themselves were ... visually impressive, but not that ... complicated? The monster truck one was nothing but a fancy tug-of-war, and the "drone ball" one was literally the same challenge they've done on Survivor except I think Jeff Probst drops the ball for the contestants to fight over.

The real fireworks are inside the house, but again, I need a scorecard to keep up. But I'm getting there.

Josh is going to find himself in an interesting situation, as he's used to being on a side with power. Nobody ever really targeted him on his season. Interesting to see how he reacts now that he's on someone's radar screen like Hunter.

I could, however, watch Amanda reading Morgan all day.

[Jillibean]

15 hours ago, sally-can-wait said:

But that wasn't made up. I specifically remember Jenna admitting to it on the reunion show and for some reason this myth has evolved that Amanda made it up. She didn't. 

Amanda said that Bruno...I don’t even want to say it. Long story short, Jenna admits they kissed but says that was absolutely it. Amanda’s version was much more salacious and involved sexual intimacy, so she did in fact make that up. If she had said Jenna and Bruno kissed and Jenna had denied it, then maybe Amanda would have a leg to stand on in being annoyed. What actually happened was that she started a sex rumor about Jenna, and instead of saying “actually I only kissed him,” Jenna said “We didn’t hook up at all.” 

I also sort of have an issue with Amanda grousing that she came off as a liar for a sex rumor she spread regardless of whether or not it had basis in reality. She could have just NOT started a rumor about another woman’s sex life to begin with. I think the message she was getting from other cast members and the audience was that what she did was uncool, and she took it to mean “because you are lying,” rather than “because you shouldn’t try to stir up trouble in people’s relationships by starting rumors about the woman engaging in sexual activity,” which might be closer to what was meant. 

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So, what happened between Zach and Amanda that they hate each other so much? And did I hear right, that there'snot usually a challenge and elimination in the same episode?

They were teamed together last season, and they’re both pretty stubborn people. I think Zach has a problem with anyone telling him what to do, let alone a confident woman, and Amanda isn’t someone who is going to be quiet about what she thinks. They couldn’t get on the same page, spent a lot of time cursing at one another, and were eventually eliminated even though they had won the day’s mission and were safe because they couldn’t agree on which team to send into elimination and had to go in themselves. Each is still convinced s/he was right and the other was wrong. They were actually enormously successful as a pair and many thought they could have won the season, which made it all the crazier that they sent themselves into elimination. 

Edited February 17, 2019 by Jillibean

[sally-can-wait]

9 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

Amanda said that Bruno...I don’t even want to say it. Long story short, Jenna admits they kissed but says that was absolutely it. Amanda’s version was much more salacious and involved sexual intimacy, so she did in fact make that up. If she had said Jenna and Bruno kissed and Jenna had denied it, then maybe Amanda would have a leg to stand on in being annoyed. What actually happened was that she started a sex rumor about Jenna, and instead of saying “actually I only kissed him,” Jenna said “We didn’t hook up at all.” 

I’ll take your word for it but I'll freely admit I'm one of the few people in the universe that can't stand Jenna. I think she's full of it and hate that she always gets a free pass because she's "dim". So I’m perfectly fine with Amanda giving her crap.

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, sally-can-wait said:

I’ll take your word for it but I'll freely admit I'm one of the few people in the universe that can't stand Jenna. I think she's full of it and hate that she always gets a free pass because she's "dim". So I’m perfectly fine with Amanda giving her crap.

I'm not really that familiar with her, but I'm not a fan either.

Who's Bruno? 

[Hiacios]

The witch is dead!!! 🙂

Nothing tastes as good as sweet revenge! Hunter & Georgia are shaping up to be a solid team.

[lasu]

Man, this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but it stresses me out and makes me so sad when people say a woman deserves a man's mistreatment because she doesn't leave him.  I know it's hard to understand why someone would stay, but you should be grateful you don't get it.  There's a lot that goes into the abuse cycle that leads to the myriad of reasons that the victim stays.  And let's be clear, they are victims and they deserve our compassion, not our scorn.  That scorn only leads to a further sense of isolation, and a desire to prove people wrong.  Believe me, an abuse victim ALREADY believes everything you are saying when you say they get what they deserve.  The only "redemption" is to stick it out, and try to make it work...that will prove everyone wrong!  It always makes me so sad when people seem to be more scornful of a woman who stays with an abuser than they are of the abuser him/herself.  The abuser is the only one her deserves our contempt.  It's just another example of blaming the victim, something this country is pretty damn good at.  No one "deserves" abuse.

Edited February 18, 2019 by lasu

[Coco88]

I could be wrong but it doesn’t seem like an abuse situation.  I think Zach is just an asshole sometimes.

[peachmangosteen]

14 hours ago, Coco88 said:

I could be wrong but it doesn’t seem like an abuse situation.  I think Zach is just an asshole sometimes.

Yea, I agree. He did come off classically emotionally manipulative though in that argument they had in this ep.

[lasu]

I definitely think his manipulation and gaslighting was emotionally abusive.  You can change the word abuse to mistreatment in my post, though, and I still firmly stand by it.