S03.E10: Buying a Town (Part 2)

[Sew Sumi]

Quote

Leah and Mike travel to Clearwater, FL, spiritual headquarters for the Church of Scientology, and explore how the contraversial 1995 death of Lisa McPherson marked s turning point in the church's history. 

Airs January 29, 2019

eta: That's the episode title on my guide. If anyone has anything that is more relavent, PM me and I'll change it. 😀

Edited January 29, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[DC Gal in VA]

I apologize in advance for saying this again but, every Tuesday night after watching this show, I am struck by the observation that, just when I thought that Leah and Mike couldn't possibly uncover even more disturbing shit about Co$ than was exposed in the previous week's episode, they top themselves. My head is literally throbbing and I am so glad I took my blood pressure medication before tuning in. Leah and Mike, I could actually kiss your feet for shining the bright lights of truth on these soulless assholes and I ain't even into feet.

Have to try to calm down and gather my thoughts before I can comment on the batshit crazy stuff I just watched.

[DC Gal in VA]

Question for those in the know about this organization: how exactly do they make money by buying 20 million dollar buildings? That's the part I just don't get. How can the tax write offs compensate for the expense of buying AND maintaining these expensive properties?

As for tonight's episode, Mike Rinder is to be especially commended for shining the light on his despicable behavior on behalf of The "Church" of Urinology. I admit to having been choked up by how emotional Mike and Leah, as well as the guests, were when relating all of the events surrounding the death of Lisa McPherson and the persecution of Minton (sorry, his first name escapes me at the moment). In particular, the look on Mike's face during that portion of the show was heartbreaking. I can see now why he works so hard to expose the scummy activities of Co$. I guess this is his penance for having enthusiastically taken part in destroying so many people's lives.

[IntrovertRed]

Damn, google Bob Minton and the first several pages clearly are clearly created by Scientology.  Scary how much power this group has due to money.  And this poor guy isn't even alive anymore.

Poor Lisa McPherson and her family.  Just no words to what she went through.

I do wonder too, Lisa cannot have been the only person with psychiatric issues in all these years, so if signs similar to Lisa's are observed, do they let people go in order to avoid more attention?  Or instead of dumping them off at a hospital, now they dump them where someone won't ever find out?  Makes one wonder.

[DC Gal in VA]

3 minutes ago, KLJ said:

Damn, google Bob Minton and the first several pages clearly are clearly created by Scientology.  Scary how much power this group has due to money.  And this poor guy isn't even alive anymore.

Poor Lisa McPherson and her family.  Just no words to what she went through.

I do wonder too, Lisa cannot have been the only person with psychiatric issues in all these years, so if signs similar to Lisa's are observed, do they let people go in order to avoid more attention?  Or instead of dumping them off at a hospital, now they dump them where someone won't ever find out?  Makes one wonder.

As I have said previously on this thread, with all of the crazy, lowlife crap these creeps have done, I cannot believe that there aren't any others that have been left to die of neglect or outright murdered by some of the true believers. Leah mentioned that those in the organization who do all of these awful things don't even think they're doing anything wrong. I can understand that soulless POS Miscavage because for him it's all about money and power, but how can the minions be so blind to the evil they do?

[SailorGirl]

55 minutes ago, DC Gal in VA said:

the look on Mike's face during that portion of the show was heartbreaking.

This. How he held it together I can't even imagine. While what he did in scientology was heinous, my admiration for his attempts to, on some level, try to make some of it right by doing this show and working so hard to expose all of this, knows no bounds. I can't even begin to imagine the internal struggles he must have regarding his time in scientology, and especially his actions when he was leading these PR assaults. It takes a strong man to be able to face this at all -- let alone with the dignity he has shown -- and on national television for all to judge. He has sat there while people whose lives he made miserable told him so to his face. 

My already strong respect for him went through the roof tonight, and much of it was based on his face during those moments. 

I LOVE that while scientology was pulling their nonsense of hiding behind the police and trying to get them to leave the park, people were cheering Leah et al on and taking pictures with her, saying how much they loved her. You KNOW that was pissing the scamatologists off even more. . . . and I was LOVING it!! 

I would love to know when they are filming in Clearwater -- I would absolutely go add my voice to those cheering them on. . . .

Edited January 30, 2019 by SailorGirl

[DC Gal in VA]

2 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

This. How he held it together I can't even imagine. While what he did in scientology was heinous, my admiration for his attempts to, on some level, try to make some of it right by doing this show and working so hard to expose all of this, knows no bounds. I can't even begin to imagine the internal struggles he must have regarding his time in scientology, and especially his actions when he was leading these PR assaults. It takes a strong man to be able to face this at all -- let alone with the dignity he has shown. He has sat there while people whose lives he made miserable told him so to his face. 

My already strong respect for him went through the roof tonight, and much of it was based on his face during those moments. 

I LOVE that while scientology was pulling their nonsense of hiding behind the police and trying to get them to leave the park, people were cheering Leah et al on and taking pictures with her, saying how much they loved her. You KNOW that was pissing the scamatologists off even more. . . . and I was LOVING it!! 

I would love to know when they are filming in Clearwater -- I would absolutely go add my voice to those cheering them on. . . .

Oh yes, absolutely SailorGirl that was incredible and so satisfying to see the bizarre lengths to which these scumbags will go to harass people for absolutely NOTHING completely exposed! I loved how Leah was basically daring them to come forward and formally press trespassing charges and also Mike explaining to the police that he knew exactly what the legal paperwork for the restraining order was since HE helped write it! I laughed my ass off at that one. Of course being the cockroaches that they are, the Co$ drones never did scurry into the light of day to formally press charges. Brilliant Mike and Leah!

BTW, there was no restraining order against Leah and Mike, so exactly how could the policemen ask them to leave the park? I think that we should all move to Clearwater since it must be the safest city in the entire United States what with a huge chunk of their police department being available to respond to a total non-crime. Unbelievable.

[MsTree]

1 hour ago, DC Gal in VA said:

there was no restraining order against Leah and Mike, so exactly how could the policemen ask them to leave the park?

Maybe because they are considered SP and the park is considered private property of the cult.

[geekgirl921]

2 hours ago, KLJ said:

Damn, google Bob Minton and the first several pages clearly are clearly created by Scientology.  Scary how much power this group has due to money.  And this poor guy isn't even alive anymore.

Poor Lisa McPherson and her family.  Just no words to what she went through.

I do wonder too, Lisa cannot have been the only person with psychiatric issues in all these years, so if signs similar to Lisa's are observed, do they let people go in order to avoid more attention?  Or instead of dumping them off at a hospital, now they dump them where someone won't ever find out?  Makes one wonder.

There was a show on Investigation Discovery called Deadly Devotion. There was an episode about a mother who was a very serious scientologist. Her son was mentally ill. He had a psychotic episode in public so he was hospitalized and diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. This being scientology meant his mother had him released and took him to a quack scientology doctor who said it was some sort of intestinal problem and he should take vitamins or something. Anyway, the son ended up murdering his mother in a particularly gruesome way. The cops talked about how weird it was when the father and daughter came to talk to them and were mostly concerned that scientology would be blamed. 

[jenrising]

7 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Question for those in the know about this organization: how exactly do they make money by buying 20 million dollar buildings? That's the part I just don't get. How can the tax write offs compensate for the expense of buying AND maintaining these expensive properties?

They don't. The money $cientology makes comes from its members. They spend that money on these buildings that sit empty after flashy events and promises to those same members to inspire them to give more next time. Through donations and buying new versions of the books every five minutes, "services," whatever else, all that stuff would be taxed in a normal business, making it less profitable. But with the tax-exempt status, they get to keep more of what they take in. The write-offs make the buildings a bit cheaper to buy and maintain, and I'm sure they have a million other side hustles, but it's all financed by the members. 

[Ina123]

8 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Question for those in the know about this organization: how exactly do they make money by buying 20 million dollar buildings? That's the part I just don't get. How can the tax write offs compensate for the expense of buying AND maintaining these expensive properties?

 

Money comes from donors. They have to invest in property to keep their IRS status. They have to be seen as doing community good works. Remember, they blatently lie about these buildings being full of community activity.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Ina123

[Pondlass1]

8 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

we should all move to Clearwater since it must be the safest city in the entire United States

I dunno.  I think if I was of criminal intent I'd rob a bank in downtown Clearwater.  The streets are deserted and the police would have to check with the CO$ first to see if they'd be allowed to stop harassing people in the park to go chase bank robbers.   All those police officers standing about... what a joke.

I'm making this light - but actually this episode hit me in the gut so hard.  That poor woman.  I was thinking about it all night long.  

I really hope this expose will achieve something.  At least take away their tax exemption.

[Chaos Theory]

As Scientology is first to say and say loudly Mike did some horrible and horrific things but he is facing them head on.   Scientology is still denying everything and pointing fingers at everyone else even at the victims of their crimes.   

Edited January 30, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[toodles]

There is some discussion of the park incident in the Leah thread.  The rag mags picked up the story.  It happened early last summer.  It warmed my cold heart to see and hear all the supporters.

[funky-rat]

They send funds to real estate, so it doesn't show just how much money they're raking in, tax free.  Real estate isn't treated the same way as cash on hand is, or liquid assets are.  It's not easily and quickly converted to cash.  Lots of big companies funnel funds to real estate holdings for the same reason, but the kicker is that they're not tax exempt.

[Carolina Girl]

Amazing how the Cult of Scientology probably monopolizes the Clearwater Police Department and literally uses them for their own personal security force.

And doesn't pay a PENNY in property tax since they are a 501(c)(3) entities are exempt from those as well.

[Carolina Girl]

Clearwater PD's Twitter Account is being blasted today.  It's @myclearwaterPD if anyone wants to comment.  Hell, their OLD tweets are getting pounced on.

[Carolina Girl]

1 hour ago, toodles said:

There is some discussion of the park incident in the Leah thread.  The rag mags picked up the story.  It happened early last summer.  It warmed my cold heart to see and hear all the supporters.

Wasn't that the BEST?  You have to wonder what the police officers were thinking when people got out of their cars to thank Leah and Mike and asked to have their picture made with them.    

[Twopper]

10 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

There was a show on Investigation Discovery called Deadly Devotion. There was an episode about a mother who was a very serious scientologist. Her son was mentally ill. He had a psychotic episode in public so he was hospitalized and diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. This being scientology meant his mother had him released and took him to a quack scientology doctor who said it was some sort of intestinal problem and he should take vitamins or something. Anyway, the son ended up murdering his mother in a particularly gruesome way. The cops talked about how weird it was when the father and daughter came to talk to them and were mostly concerned that scientology would be blamed. 

I saw that show, and I wondered if Leah would ever mention it.   I feel asleep watching this as it was on the DVR and it was rather late before I got to it.   I had heard of the McPherson case before so I was looking forward to see how they treat it.    Maybe I'll come back later with comments.

[Maelstrom]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

As Scientology is first to say and say loudly Mike did some horrible and horrific things but he is facing them head on.

They also always seem to leave out the rather pertinent fact that they were the ones who told Mike to do those horrible things.

I agree with everyone else about how well Mike came off despite the tough subjects they covered. I thought it really showed his true character - not the "Mr. Scary" side of him, but the man he likely always was underneath the brainwashing, and the man he has become since leaving. And that man seemed compassionate and remorseful for what he'd done. He took responsibility for his actions and has tried to make amends. Kudos to you, Mike.

I also appreciated that the episode didn't dwell on the more sensationalistic aspects of Lisa McPherson's death. Most other shows would've gone there, but I'm glad they focused more on the impact that her death had rather than the gory details. And the in memorium segment at the end was a welcome touch of class and humanity (two things Scientology is eternally lacking). How many lives has Scientology destroyed? How many more will be destroyed before they are stopped?

The absurdity of Benchgate was some much-needed levity to end the episode. It actually perfectly encapsulates the entire issue of Scientology - CO$ hiding behind cryptic, circular threats; law enforcement standing by uselessly; and "civilians" cheering Leah on from the sidelines in the middle of it all. That was just priceless.

[laurakaye]

11 hours ago, MsTree said:

Maybe because they are considered SP and the park is considered private property of the cult.

This is where I get confused...either the CO$ areas are private or they aren't.  Considering the Co$ owns most of the town, I don't understand how the non-brainwashed people that do live/visit/vacation there are supposed to be able to take a stroll anywhere without being accosted by the police.  And honestly, SP or no SP - how is the police force supposed to make that distinction, and even if they could, the term "suppressive person" is only unique to this crazy cult.  That's like a "religion" saying that if a person with green eyes walks past our buildings, they need to be escorted away because we don't believe in people with green eyes.  I am trying to figure out how this police department handles a myriad of daily crazy calls from scientologists complaining that someone they don't immediately know has the gall to walk down the street.  Maybe this was covered (I haven't seen all of Part 2 yet) but is the Clearwater Police being paid by scientology, and if so - how can that be?

[DC Gal in VA]

Regarding "Benchgate"--thanks for that one Maelstrom--I was really floored when the supervisor or sergeant or whoever showed up and initially explained their presence as being ordered by the mysterious "The Powers That Be." Really odd that he just didn't just say we were told to come here by [fill in the blank]. Later on in the conversation it was quite obvious they were talking about Scientology but I don't ever recall them actually using that organization's name. That whole exchange was beyond creepy to me, almost like a passage from the book 1984.

ITA with everyone about the cheering hostages, um I mean citizens.😒

Edited January 30, 2019 by DC Gal in VA
Effing Autocorrect!

[iMonrey]

I don't know, I'm having a hard time getting past Mike Rinder's involvement in what happened to Bob Minton and the Lisa McPherson Trust. Yes I'm sure he feels bad about it but it sort of rubbed me the wrong way when he said his part in that haunted him "for many years." Like it doesn't anymore. I'm also ever the cynic, and have to give a side-eye to his assertion that he actually became "friends" with Bob Minton and still considers Minton's wife Stacy one of his friends. I have a nagging suspicion Mike is candy-coating the actual relationship to absolve himself because I have a hard time believing either Bob or Stacy ever came to consider him a friend. YMMV.

That said, I don't see how the Co$ can refute any of this story when it's a proven fact that Rinder was the architect of the situation and he's sitting right there admitting it. It's not as if he's just pretending he used to be a high ranking official within the organization, it's something well known and documented. 

One of the forensic scientists the Co$ hired to refute the county coroner's cause of death of Lisa McPherson was Werner Spitz, apparently, according to this episode. He's also one of the experts who weighed in on the Jon Benet Ramsey case in a recent CBS special. And now I've lost faith in his credibility knowing that he was willing to work on behalf of Scientology. 

[SailorGirl]

hey, if anyone is looking for something to do next Saturday . . . this flyer was at my hairdresser's salon. Being still relatively new to the area, I thought, oh hey, a block party -- this could be fun. Then I took a closer look . . . NOPE.

Note -- neither I nor my hair salon are in Clearwater -- we are about 10-15 minutes north. 

And I can neither confirm nor deny, but there is a strong possibility that someone leaving the salon may have taken the stack of flyers with them when they left and disposed of them in a trash can around the corner . . . 

 

[DC Gal in VA]

6 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know, I'm having a hard time getting past Mike Rinder's involvement in what happened to Bob Minton and the Lisa McPherson Trust. Yes I'm sure he feels bad about it but it sort of rubbed me the wrong way when he said his part in that haunted him "for many years." Like it doesn't anymore. I'm also ever the cynic, and have to give a side-eye to his assertion that he actually became "friends" with Bob Minton and still considers Minton's wife Stacy one of his friends. I have a nagging suspicion Mike is candy-coating the actual relationship to absolve himself because I have a hard time believing either Bob or Stacy ever came to consider him a friend. YMMV.

That said, I don't see how the Co$ can refute any of this story when it's a proven fact that Rinder was the architect of the situation and he's sitting right there admitting it. It's not as if he's just pretending he used to be a high ranking official within the organization, it's something well known and documented. 

One of the forensic scientists the Co$ hired to refute the county coroner's cause of death of Lisa McPherson was Werner Spitz, apparently, according to this episode. He's also one of the experts who weighed in on the Jon Benet Ramsey case in a recent CBS special. And now I've lost faith in his credibility knowing that he was willing to work on behalf of Scientology. 

Okay then iMonrey nice to know that it wasn't just me who felt really uncomfortable when Mike said the things I bolded above. Phrasing how he feels (or felt) in the past tense really rubbed me the wrong way too. If I was as tormented by someone as the Mintons were by Mike Rinder and Scamatology, as well as having to basically crawl on my hands and knees surrendering and begging for them to back off, the absolute last thing I would want was a friendship with that person. Then again, maybe she is just that forgiving, unlike me.

As for the hired guns, what they and Co$ did to the county coroner was beneath contempt. Damn, they must have scared that poor woman half to death. IIRC, the other two experts were Cyril Wecht and Henry Lee, but I could be wrong. Whoever these three tools of the cult are, I also have no respect for them or their well compensated expertise.

[CrazyInAlabama]

What a lovely caring thing that anonymous person did.    It could very well have saved someone who didn't read it closely from making a huge mistake, and getting sucked into the vortex of CO$

[Cobb Salad]

I’m also wondering about the comments Mike made about becoming friends with the Mintons after all of what he did to them.  If I found myself in a position like the Mintons, once it was over and done with I’d want nothing to do with anyone who had anything to do with the pain inflicted on me.   People have their own definition of friendship and who they’d consider a friend I guess.

I loved the last segment in the park, no one from Scientology showed up to get rid of them, heh.   

[Maelstrom]

When it comes to Mike (or anyone that grew up in the Cherch) I always try to remember that their emotional development is stunted - that is to say, their capacity and ability to deal with their emotions like "normal" people is nonexistent thanks to the mindfuck of Scientology. I hope that makes sense. So I try to see his reactions and comments, especially in regards to his past, with that in mind.

I'm not excusing or downplaying what he's done - I'm just saying that maybe even after all this time it's still difficult for him to process (let alone express) his emotions in regards to his past actions. As far as being friends with the Mintons, who knows, ultimately that's between them. There are probably few people in the world who would know the torment inflicted by Scientology better than Mike Rinder. I do seem to recall Mike saying when he finally blew, he called a man whom he'd been surveilling for help, and the man helped him.

And it's not my intent in any way to denigrate or argue the opinions of anyone else here on this forum. :) We all see things differently, which is what makes the discussions around here so interesting.

[HighlandWarriorGrl]

4 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I'm making this light - but actually this episode hit me in the gut so hard.  That poor woman.  I was thinking about it all night long.  

I really hope this expose will achieve something.  At least take away their tax exemption.

I find myself getting more and more anxiety built up after each episode.  Something HAS to give and our government simply HAS to get the balls to stop this.  There has to be a way to turn their own greedy deceit on them and bring them down before they ruin any more lives or become any more powerful.  

I am so grateful to Leah and Mike for taking this on and exposing this unbelievable nightmare to not only the authorities, but the American public.  At the end of the season, I can only hope that they can give us - normal citizens - concrete ideas on how we can help with this crusade.  Knowing what I know now, I feel like there must be something we can do.  Letter writing campaigns to the CIA or IRS?  Boycotts?  What will push this over the edge?

14 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

How he held it together I can't even imagine. While what he did in scientology was heinous, my admiration for his attempts to, on some level, try to make some of it right by doing this show and working so hard to expose all of this, knows no bounds. I can't even begin to imagine the internal struggles he must have regarding his time in scientology, and especially his actions when he was leading these PR assaults. It takes a strong man to be able to face this at all -- let alone with the dignity he has shown -- and on national television for all to judge. He has sat there while people whose lives he made miserable told him so to his face. 

My already strong respect for him went through the roof tonight, and much of it was based on his face during those moments. 

First, let me say that I love Leah’s scrappiness and you can tell that her big heart and her Jersey moxie are why she is doing this show.  Much respect for the lady and how she is using her star power to draw attention to the horror that is Co$.  She was a pampered celeb on the inside, and is obviously wanting to cleanse herself of her past with them and help others to get out or not get in by exposing the truth.  

Mike had a different role on the inside.  Not just a celeb follower and mouthpiece, but a lieutenant and enforcer of the evil.  Just think about the stain that must leave on your soul when you finally see the truth and face what human suffering your actions have caused.  When I think about facing that, it is daunting.  When I think about facing that on television for the whole world to see, and for Co$ to target, I don’t know how I would get out of bed every day.  I’m sure we have no idea about how Co$ is still harassing him on a daily basis, let alone the estrangement of his family.  I know there are people who will say yeah, but he is getting a paycheck for it.  True, but when I see the turmoil in his eyes on these shows, or the tears, or the dignity he shows when looking someone in the eye and admitting his part in their pain and apologizing, I would have to say that they can’t pay him enough.  Because of his former role, he is one of the few people on the outside that can lend credence and credibility to the accusations against Co$, and he knows it.  He has a lot more to lose than any paycheck is worth, and a lot more ability to wipe the stain from his heart for his years as an enforcer.  I, for one, respect him tremendously for it, and don’t question his sincerity.  I love Leah and what she is doing, but she couldn’t do nearly as much without someone with Mike’s insider knowledge and courage.

[DC Gal in VA]

Well it seems to me that we are not alone in the universe. I'm not talking about extraterrestrials though, I am talking about Scamatologists. Although, with that whole Xenu thing, I could be talking about actual aliens.

Backtracking a bit, since I've been watching this show and especially right after viewing each week's episode, I tend to feel just a wee bit more paranoid about what people are able to get away with doing to other people -- hey, as recently reported, you've got creeps listening to people over their iPhones when doing group chats.

In that light, has anyone noticed a rather large, disproportionate number of lurkers to posters on these episode threads? I know, I know, there are always more people reading and not posting but it's the proportion that seems way off compared to other forums. For instance, in the celebrity Scientologists thread there are currently 1216 posters and 134,106 lurkers. I checked through several other forums on PTV and that ratio really is out of the norm. So do any of you think that we are required reading for the Borg Sea Org members and the other low level drones? Obviously, I do.

Hey heh, don't judge me, okay? Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me! 😄

Edited January 30, 2019 by DC Gal in VA
Clarifications.

[Carolina Girl]

2 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

They also always seem to leave out the rather pertinent fact that they were the ones who told Mike to do those horrible things

In fact, their "denials" often seem to intimate that Mike did it "on his own" and that's why he was "banished."

Which NO ONE with two synapses to rub together and a functioning neocortex believes for a minute.

[DC Gal in VA]

1 hour ago, SailorGirl said:

hey, if anyone is looking for something to do next Saturday . . . this flyer was at my hairdresser's salon. Being still relatively new to the area, I thought, oh hey, a block party -- this could be fun. Then I took a closer look . . . NOPE.

Note -- neither I nor my hair salon are in Clearwater -- we are about 10-15 minutes north. 

And I can neither confirm nor deny, but there is a strong possibility that someone leaving the salon may have taken the stack of flyers with them when they left and disposed of them in a trash can around the corner . . . 

 

Thanks so much for this SailorGirl. They sound so fun loving, harmless and, family oriented, don't they? However, what we here know and what most of the general public does not is that when these fuckers say "Join Us!" they really, really mean it, and not in a good way, LOL! 😆

[Carolina Girl]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know, I'm having a hard time getting past Mike Rinder's involvement in what happened to Bob Minton and the Lisa McPherson Trust. Yes I'm sure he feels bad about it but it sort of rubbed me the wrong way when he said his part in that haunted him "for many years." Like it doesn't anymore. I'm also ever the cynic, and have to give a side-eye to his assertion that he actually became "friends" with Bob Minton and still considers Minton's wife Stacy one of his friends. I have a nagging suspicion Mike is candy-coating the actual relationship to absolve himself because I have a hard time believing either Bob or Stacy ever came to consider him a friend. YMMV.

That said, I don't see how the Co$ can refute any of this story when it's a proven fact that Rinder was the architect of the situation and he's sitting right there admitting it. It's not as if he's just pretending he used to be a high ranking official within the organization, it's something well known and documented. 

One of the forensic scientists the Co$ hired to refute the county coroner's cause of death of Lisa McPherson was Werner Spitz, apparently, according to this episode. He's also one of the experts who weighed in on the Jon Benet Ramsey case in a recent CBS special. And now I've lost faith in his credibility knowing that he was willing to work on behalf of Scientology. 

Not to mention Cyril Wecht and Michael Baden.  I have zero respect for either of them.  Baden was dead to me after OJ.  He used to be the eminence grise of the post mortem table; now he's nothing more than a hired gun.

[DC Gal in VA]

5 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

Not to mention Cyril Wecht and Michael Baden.  I have zero respect for either of them.  Baden was dead to me after OJ.  He used to be the eminence grise of the post mortem table; now he's nothing more than a hired gun.

Thanks Carolina Girl for that clarification on the attorneys. I had mistakenly said that one of them was Dr. Henry Lee. Not because of the OJ trial but just on general principle, I always give major side eye to being able to hire any alleged expert on any subject that will provide, for a hefty fee of course, the exact analysis and conclusions the person paying wants.

BTW, are you a South Carolina girl or the "Other" Carolina? 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I loved the last segment in the park, no one from Scientology showed up to get rid of them, heh.   

Let's not forget they had their camera crew there filming them, and I'm sure that's what was drawing all the attention to them, as opposed to the mere presence of one guy who the church had a restraining order against 20 years ago. I thought that was a tiny bit disingenuous. It's also probably the reason nobody from the church itself showed up to confront them because none of them want to be on camera on Leah's show. I did get a kick out of the passers-by who were cheering them on though, and the family that wanted their picture taken with Leah. I'd love to hear from more people who live in and around Clearwater and what they make of the Co$. I bet the ratings for this show are really high in that area.

Speaking of which, has anyone watched the show that follows this one, The Many Sides of Jane? The promo spots strike me as horrifically exploitive and tacky. And that's the thing that bothers me most about Leah's show - the fact that it airs on a network that seems to have mostly low-brow types of shows.

[maggiegil]

Was kind of hoping they'd touch upon it but by now wouldn't a certain amount of the police force, local government in Clearwater be made up of scientologists? If I was in the COS and trying to control Clearwater the first thing I would have done is gotten scientologists high up in the police department, etc

 

With regards to the private park, it has to be clearly labelled that its private property. I couldn't just put up a park without any signage that it was private property and then call the police whenever someone deigned to use it.

 

The ordinance that the Lisa McPherson people have to be more than 10ft away from a Scientologist is madness. I wonder how far they took it legally, its madness and I doubt a higher court would find it to be enforceable.

[Carolina Girl]

1 hour ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Thanks Carolina Girl for that clarification on the attorneys. I had mistakenly said that one of them was Dr. Henry Lee. Not because of the OJ trial but just on general principle, I always give major side eye to being able to hire any alleged expert on any subject that will provide, for a hefty fee of course, the exact analysis and conclusions the person paying wants.

BTW, are you a South Carolina girl or the "Other" Carolina? 

Ah, the "Other" Carolina - Goldsboro.  Live in California now.  But there's no city I love more than Charleston.  I'm a SUCKER for that coastal drawl....

[Carolina Girl]

26 minutes ago, maggiegil said:

Was kind of hoping they'd touch upon it but by now wouldn't a certain amount of the police force, local government in Clearwater be made up of scientologists? If I was in the COS and trying to control Clearwater the first thing I would have done is gotten scientologists high up in the police department, etc

 

With regards to the private park, it has to be clearly labelled that its private property. I couldn't just put up a park without any signage that it was private property and then call the police whenever someone deigned to use it.

 

The ordinance that the Lisa McPherson people have to be more than 10ft away from a Scientologist is madness. I wonder how far they took it legally, its madness and I doubt a higher court would find it to be enforceable.

I was actually amazed that they didn't appeal it as unworkable and an abridgement of free speech and free assembly.  I seem to recall that there were massive protests at Scientology about Lisa McPherson's death.

If current estimates are correct, there are only about 25,000 practicing Scientologists in the United States and another 25,000 worldwide, so I would assume if the population of Clearwater wanted them to have no influence, the voting booth is their weapon.  They have literally KILLED downtown - no shops, no businesses.  Then make a new downtown, open shops and businesses and let the CO$ zombies roam their fifedom.

I imagine Miscavage is high on the recruitment of those with fortunes to get into the fold.  Personally, I try to do my part.  I will NOT pay money to see any Tom Cruise or John Travolta movie or buy the DVD until they renounce Scientology or support any entertainment project (TV, concerts) by any celebrity Scientologist.  

[DC Gal in VA]

A truly lovely state North Carolina Carolina Girl. My family on my mother's side is from South Carolina, a small city called Orangeburg. What we can definitely both agree on is the delicious food both of those states have to offer!😊

Edited January 30, 2019 by DC Gal in VA
Additional comments.

[veronicamers]

18 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

Ah, the "Other" Carolina - Goldsboro.  Live in California now.  But there's no city I love more than Charleston.  I'm a SUCKER for that coastal drawl....

Hey there fellow Tarheel! I'm originally from the "other" boro...Greensboro.

I'll echo everyone's sentiments that this was an amazing episode. I knew quite a bit about Lisa McPherson's death as Janet Reitman's book goes into a lot of detail about it. She met a horrible end and COS is 100 percent responsible for it. 

I can sense real contrition in Mike. And while on its face it might seem odd that he forged a relationship with the Mintons, I can kind of understand it. What the Mintons went through was all consuming and traumatic and when something like that happens in your life you tend to go real deep into a "Why? Why? Why?" sort of place. Mike Rinder was their link to COS and probably one of the few people who knew the whole sordid story of how they found themselves in this untenable situation. So while it is sort of twisted they'd be reliant upon him for answers, for guidance, for sympathy...I can sort of see it. 

[Skycatcher]

I find myself wondering what "fair game" tactics CO$ is using against Leah Remini and Mike Rinder these days.  After seeing the lengths they went to to "neutralize" Minton I would think they'd be trotting out the same tactics for the Aftermath cast and crew.

[HighlandWarriorGrl]

2 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

In that light, has anyone noticed a rather large, disproportionate number of lurkers to posters on these episode threads? I know, I know, there are always more people reading and not posting but it's the proportion that seems way off compared to other forums. For instance, in the celebrity Scientologists thread there are currently 1216 posters and 134,106 lurkers. I checked through several other forums on PTV and that ratio really is out of the norm. So do any of you think that we are required reading for the Borg Sea Org members and the other low level drones? Obviously, I do.

According to Leah, no one is supposed to look at derogatory information about Co$ on the internet, or they would have to confess it while holding the cans for e-meter examinations.  Internet is frowned upon in Co$, IIFC.  They don’t want members knowing what we know.  

I would hope that any and all Co$ members (accept Miss Cabbage and his A-team) find their way to this message board and read it carefully, with an open mind.  If any of you out there are reading this now, PLEASE believe that this is the truth and you can get out and have a life and stop Co$ from hurting people and breaking up families, or getting any stronger financially.  There is a better life out here, you can be forgiven and move on, and people on the outside will help you.  Mike and Leah need to go that extra step and figure out a hotline or some kind of escape route for people wanting to get out.  How many do you think are trapped in there, or feel trapped and don’t know how to get out?  God, I can’t even imagine what that would be like.  To come out of this brain washing, realize what you are stuck in and not know how to get out or be in fear for your life.

[geekgirl921]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Let's not forget they had their camera crew there filming them, and I'm sure that's what was drawing all the attention to them, as opposed to the mere presence of one guy who the church had a restraining order against 20 years ago. I thought that was a tiny bit disingenuous. It's also probably the reason nobody from the church itself showed up to confront them because none of them want to be on camera on Leah's show. I did get a kick out of the passers-by who were cheering them on though, and the family that wanted their picture taken with Leah. I'd love to hear from more people who live in and around Clearwater and what they make of the Co$. I bet the ratings for this show are really high in that area.

Speaking of which, has anyone watched the show that follows this one, The Many Sides of Jane? The promo spots strike me as horrifically exploitive and tacky. And that's the thing that bothers me most about Leah's show - the fact that it airs on a network that seems to have mostly low-brow types of shows.

 

3 hours ago, Cobb Salad said:

I’m also wondering about the comments Mike made about becoming friends with the Mintons after all of what he did to them.  If I found myself in a position like the Mintons, once it was over and done with I’d want nothing to do with anyone who had anything to do with the pain inflicted on me.   People have their own definition of friendship and who they’d consider a friend I guess.

I loved the last segment in the park, no one from Scientology showed up to get rid of them, heh.   

I have watched The Many Sides of Jane. It's not bad and doesn't actually strike me as exploitative. She seems to want to educate people on the condition.

I believe Mike about his friendship with the Mintons. I think he truly feels terrible about his part in what happened. I also think that Mark Bunker would have called him out if he was lying considering he worked with them for all of that time.

[DC Gal in VA]

2 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

I was actually amazed that they didn't appeal it as unworkable and an abridgement of free speech and free assembly.  I seem to recall that there were massive protests at Scientology about Lisa McPherson's death.

If current estimates are correct, there are only about 25,000 practicing Scientologists in the United States and another 25,000 worldwide, so I would assume if the population of Clearwater wanted them to have no influence, the voting booth is their weapon.  They have literally KILLED downtown - no shops, no businesses.  Then make a new downtown, open shops and businesses and let the CO$ zombies roam their fifedom.

I imagine Miscavage is high on the recruitment of those with fortunes to get into the fold.  Personally, I try to do my part.  I will NOT pay money to see any Tom Cruise or John Travolta movie or buy the DVD until they renounce Scientology or support any entertainment project (TV, concerts) by any celebrity Scientologist.  

Thanks for posting this. You reminded me of a question I meant to post earlier. The latest figures for the population of Clearwater is 107,685. If there are really only 25,000 SCUMatologists in the entire United States, exactly how many of them are residing in Clearwater, especially those of voting age? Also, while I agree that using the ballot box can often affect change in any locale, exactly who or what, meaning ballot initiatives, would the people be voting for? We've all seen that so many of the local public servants are in the pockets of Co$ and the ones who aren't are relentlessly attacked. Also, according to the show, the city has already taken them to court--it was stated that the city over reached--and lost.

Again, I completely agree with you that voting can make a change, just wanted to know if you or anyone else here have thoughts on how these citizens can make their votes count in a city swimming in corruption.

Edited to add: I think I have just answered my own question. According to this  website, Scientologists in Clearwater represent 8.2% of their population.

https://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/sptimes/by_the_numbers.html

They also state that Co$ is the largest payer of property tax in downtown Clearwater paying $1 million dollars in property tax last year. As usual, money talks and bullshit walks.

Edited January 31, 2019 by DC Gal in VA
Additional comments and typo.

[EVS]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yes I'm sure he feels bad about it but it sort of rubbed me the wrong way when he said his part in that haunted him "for many years." Like it doesn't anymore

I just watched the episode. I had already read the comments here beforehand. This may be a small point, but what I heard him say was that his part in what happened to Bob Minton “has haunted me for a long time”.  I listened again to double check. It’s a small difference, but the meaning changes to me. Ymmv, of course. 

[Skycatcher]

I can almost grasp the state of mind of someone like Leah who suddenly wakes up and realizes that they wasted a huge portion of their life in this cult.  Her CO$ participation was relatively benign.

But I cannot begin to fathom somebody like Mike  who not only wasted a huge chunk of his life but actually participated in the worst excesses this cult has to offer.  I think his remorse is genuine but how in the world can you even begin to make amends for all the grief and damage you caused.   How he bears up with that guilt is beyond my imagination but I'm sure this show is a huge part of his personal path of redemption.

[DC Gal in VA]

21 minutes ago, HighlandWarriorGrl said:

According to Leah, no one is supposed to look at derogatory information about Co$ on the internet, or they would have to confess it while holding the cans for e-meter examinations.  Internet is frowned upon in Co$, IIFC.  They don’t want members knowing what we know.  

I would hope that any and all Co$ members (accept Miss Cabbage and his A-team) find their way to this message board and read it carefully, with an open mind.  If any of you out there are reading this now, PLEASE believe that this is the truth and you can get out and have a life and stop Co$ from hurting people and breaking up families, or getting any stronger financially.  There is a better life out here, you can be forgiven and move on, and people on the outside will help you.  Mike and Leah need to go that extra step and figure out a hotline or some kind of escape route for people wanting to get out.  How many do you think are trapped in there, or feel trapped and don’t know how to get out?  God, I can’t even imagine what that would be like.  To come out of this brain washing, realize what you are stuck in and not know how to get out or be in fear for your life.

Yes, I've heard that they are not supposed to look at derogatory information on the internet but I have to believe that Miss Cabbage must have assigned a bunch of those true believers in SeaOrg to scour the internet for any criticism of their "religion" so he can strategize ways of neutralizing and/or destroying any and all critics.

As for the second bolded sentence: brilliant! What a great idea. I hope that either someone suggests that idea to Leah and Mike or, unbeknownst to us, they're already working on it. She already has multiple kick ass, in-your-face billboards out, so a hotline number could just be added to those.

[juliet73]

On 1/29/2019 at 10:25 PM, KLJ said:

 

I do wonder too, Lisa cannot have been the only person with psychiatric issues in all these years, so if signs similar to Lisa's are observed, do they let people go in order to avoid more attention?  Or instead of dumping them off at a hospital, now they dump them where someone won't ever find out?  Makes one wonder.

Here's a link to people who have died because of $cientology: https://theyshouldnothavedied.wordpress.com

Edited January 31, 2019 by juliet73

[iMonrey]

I'm certain I had already heard about or seen the story about Lisa McPherson prior to this episode. Does anyone remember if it was covered in Going Clear?

[BabyVegas]

2 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

I was actually amazed that they didn't appeal it as unworkable and an abridgement of free speech and free assembly.

Among other problems with it! I'm actually learning about injunctions in school right now and I'm absolutely blown away that any court would issue that injunction in the first place. Every week I think that, when it comes to Scientology, I am incapable of being surprised and then every week Leah and Mike come along and destroy that belief.

1 hour ago, veronicamers said:

I can sense real contrition in Mike.

In my opinion, he looked absolutely sick last night. I can't remember exactly what she said, but Leah made some joke and they cut to Mike and he looked like he wanted to hurl. I appreciate that Mike is facing his past head on. It would be easy for him to be behind the scenes or something similar, but numerous times throughout the series he has clearly been working to own up to what he did and take responsibility. I'd be willing to bet that if someone who he hurt in his role with Scientology wanted to yell at him about what he did, he would stand there and take it.

4 hours ago, HighlandWarriorGrl said:

I find myself getting more and more anxiety built up after each episode.  Something HAS to give and our government simply HAS to get the balls to stop this.  There has to be a way to turn their own greedy deceit on them and bring them down before they ruin any more lives or become any more powerful.

Seriously. I want to do something to help. I'm glad that Leah and Mike are doing the show, but watching it and feeling powerless to do anything is a sucky feeling.