S01.E11: We Continue to Truck

[Snow Apple]

I don't think it was a good idea for Darlene to move in with Ben even without the David issue. They haven't known each other long and they both have control issues. It's tolerable during the first stage of love but how long before the little things start to bug?

And what was up with the kids' reaction? It seemed like Ben was a ticket to Chicago and not because they like him enough to be a family. Can you imagine Harris' reaction the first time Ben try to discipline her? Not to mention Darlene's reaction! The only reason she backed down regarding Mark's piano lessons was because of Mark himself, not because she realized Ben was right.

[Pete Martell]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

Totally get this, and yes, the original Roseanne in the 80s/90s was touted as "the anti-Cosby Show" for those reasons. No doctors, lawyers and big houses here. So you're right re: Roseanne generally. The issue now is that, while many people struggle, The Connors keep creating their own problems. 

Your comment gets to another question I wonder - does the show want us to feel sympathy *because* these people are stupid? Is that what we've come to? We no longer look toward people we want to aspire to be, with education, common sense, hard work, ambition, etc., because that makes us feel bad. So watching ignorance is better? That scares the crap out of me. What does that say about America today? They need to introduce *someone* in this family who has been successful beyond a subsistence level.

I don't think we're meant to see the characters as stupid, or that the idea is how we need to watch ignorance to feel good. The idea mostly seems to be that working hard, having education, will only get you so far. That's what the message of Roseanne always was. Remember when they brought in a family member who was successful beyond a subsistence level? She was played by Joan Collins, in a spoof of someone viewers knew as rich and glitzy. 

While no show is true to life, I don't think the depiction of various forms of struggle is hugely unrealistic. It's not like the old TV episode where people win the lottery and lose the ticket. You have people who have tried their whole lives and just been left behind. Or people like Darlene, who did everything they were supposed to do, but life still pulled the rug out from under them.

Characters like Becky are, for me, about as painfully true to life as a sitcom can get. Not the whole bit about being impregnated by an illegal immigrant who is then deported (that is melodrama, albeit melodrama that has some poignancy, predictable as the whole scenario was), but everything else about her - the "smart" person who was supposed to be more than she is, who got kicked hard by life and never got back up, who's scared, who hates herself, who is simultaneously numbed by a daily routine and terrified of what will happen when she wakes up in the morning. 

The only character who has really created her own problems (as Becky's problems aren't from the baby or the deportation) is Jackie, which is pretty true to how she was on the original show. 

I do think if the show stays around and we get this type of material over and over, it will become difficult to watch or to care, but for just the first season I think it fits the tone of what the characters have been and doesn't have the bitter, sour tones of the last 3-4 years of the original show.

[qtpye]

12 hours ago, Bastet said:

Undoubtedly the fact they only had a dozen episodes, and don’t know for sure they’re getting more, had an effect on storyline trajectory, but Becky suddenly wanting Emilio doesn’t work for me any better than Darlene considering moving to Chicago with Ben.  I guess they kept it pretty low key, though - she wasn't wanting to, oh, I don't know, move in with the guy, just open to seeing what happened.  And I like that two of the few shows I’ve watched this season (this and Murphy Brown) tackled the effects of deportation. 

I’d love to see Darlene send both Ben and David packing, as I don’t like either relationship (or like either individual all that much).  But as long as she’s not packing, whatever.  I knew she wouldn’t move, but it’s still a relief; it’s not like good shows haven’t let me down before with women’s choices about men.  Speaking of:  David has the audacity to utter the words, “There’s no reason we shouldn’t be together," and the reason Darlene comes up with is Ben?!  And the kids wanting to move back to Chicago so badly they have not a peep to say about it being by way of living with some guy they barely know?  Come on, show.

When I read a semi-spoilery article about filming of the finale, I really liked the notion of exploring how the absence of Roseanne’s usual input on Jackie’s relationships affects Jackie falling into and lingering in old patterns with Peter.  Last week I was quite annoyed he was back around after she’d stood up for herself, but this week I feel it was worth it for the scene at The Lunch Box.  (And I love what they did with the old Lunch Box space, combining the old and new fixtures/décor).  And the kitchen scene with Jackie and Darlene.

“I’ve got a life coach client in 20 minutes and I’ve got puke in my hair" and “Oh my god, it’s the ghost of children past” both made me laugh out loud.

But, holy crap, was that tuna casserole cold?!

 

11 hours ago, rmontro said:

I really wanted to like Peter, because I like Matthew Broderick, but they've been hinting all along that he was a bad guy so I'm not surprised.

More good acting by Laurie Metcalf, they sure make her earn her money on this show.

Interesting to hear the audience squeal a little when they raised the possibility of David and Darlene getting back together - which I wonder about, since Big Bang Theory is wrapping up this season.  If Galecki wants a job, I expect he's got one (albeit for a big pay cut, I'm sure).

Strong episode to finish on.  I'm surprised at how much I am engaged in this old retread of a show!

 

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

Totally get this, and yes, the original Roseanne in the 80s/90s was touted as "the anti-Cosby Show" for those reasons. No doctors, lawyers and big houses here. So you're right re: Roseanne generally. The issue now is that, while many people struggle, The Connors keep creating their own problems. 

Your comment gets to another question I wonder - does the show want us to feel sympathy *because* these people are stupid? Is that what we've come to? We no longer look toward people we want to aspire to be, with education, common sense, hard work, ambition, etc., because that makes us feel bad. So watching ignorance is better? That scares the crap out of me. What does that say about America today? They need to introduce *someone* in this family who has been successful beyond a subsistence level.

 

 

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

I don't feel sympathy because they're stupid, but because they're human. Intelligent people make bad choices all the time. Good people get hit by bad things. I think we see this show through the lens of our own experience. 

I do enjoy positive, inspirational shows a lot, particularly real life documentaries. But I also sometimes enjoy watching shows with dark humour, that echoes the humour I needed to survive a very difficult childhood, watching intelligent adults make terrible choices. 

So I fully understand what you're saying. At the same time, I think we use different shows for different things, and for me, there's something cathartic about shows like last night's episode. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

I get where you are coming from, and respect it and agree with it. Intelligent people make poor choices, but often, they were the best choices they could make at the time. The Connors are not those choices. Having a baby in your mid-40s and not knowing who the father is while you work as a waitress as a dead end job is not a series of decisions an intelligent person makes. Refusing to move only 60 minutes away from your family with a man who seems to appreciate and love you to a place both your kids would flourish (most probably) because ... you can't leave your adult, working dad alone? That's not intelligent. Dating Peter? Etc.

 

1 hour ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Dan to Darlene: "...for when Becky and the baby move in...because your KNOW that's happening." (I forgot the first half of the line!)

 

Once again, I am bothered by the dumbing down of Becky. The whole conversation about "Chihuahua is a dog, not a state in Mexico" was prime example. Becky was the smart kid. She would have known that. 

 

But, oh, how I loved seeing the Lunchbox set again! Sniff....

 

 

1 hour ago, blondiec0332 said:

They aren't intelligent choices but not all life choices are intelligent.  Sometimes life choices are based on emotion.  Becky found herself pregnant and after being alone for so long I can totally believe she would want that baby because it would be someone she could love and would love her back.  Darlene wanting to stay and keep an eye on her dad is totally believable to me.  He had been married for so long and to suddenly be without his life partner would absolutely break his heart and make him off balance (figurately speaking).  And Jackie has a pattern of choosing less than favorable boyfriends so that totally rang true to me.

I want to say I love the discussions that original Roseanne and this spin off triggers and I understand where most of you are coming from. Tv makes economic progress seem so easy. Even, very well off Friends has Rachel start of as a waitress only to become a high powered executive for a major designer in a handful of years.  However, even if the family made dumb decisions you kind of understood the reasoning. Dan and Roseanne had no business buying that bike shop but you understood why they wanted to try. 

Here it was obvious that Mathew Brodrick was only with Jackie because a nebbish puffy loser does not have a lot of options for sugar mommas. Her anger did not feel real. I know they wanted her to missRoseanne comforting her but there are better ways to do that.

Edited January 23, 2019 by qtpye

[readster]

46 minutes ago, abourgeois said:

YES. It would've been so much better if Darlene had wanted to stay BEFORE David's little visit. If she didn't want to leave her dad and her pregnant sister and her aunt, I would've felt that on her. Also, as someone else said Chicago is ONE HOUR away. To me that is a decent drive time for frequent visits and if not,  I'm no geography expert but I'm sure there are towns IN BETWEEN Lanford and Chicago, yes? Why couldn't Darlene and Ben compromise and move somewhere in the middle? Half hour each way is nothing. 

I about died at Emilio's face when he tasted the tuna casserole. SAME, dude.

My heart broke for Jackie and Becky. Sniff. 

Plus, they have talked how close they are: Elgin, Elburn, Geneva, all places that have TRAIN stations with Metra that many, many people who work in the city use to commute. I grew up in Sycamore, which if you remember way back when, Lanford was suppose to be close by and why the read the: "Sycamore News" regularly with Dan. Plus, it was also mentioned how close they were to Dekalb, which has... Northern Illinois University! Where they have people making better money working in the cafeterias  than some diner where the owner is constantly drunk. Plus, Darlene used David's excuse. What she should have said was: "my ex stopped by and without him saying anything, made me realized I have x, y, and z to worry about, so the timing is bad." Plus, it was also the perfect time to talk about Jackie you know, HAD A KID! Add that to her pain how she screwed that up too and now look at her in her 60s and still having the same problems she had since she was in her early 30s. That's why its hard to hand wave and yes, intelligent people do man stupid decisions in the heat of the moment because it seemed like the right choice, but let's face it. If David wouldn't have stopped by or Emilio wouldn't have gotten caught by ICE she would have taken the kids and left. 

[Snow Apple]

I hated Peter but laughed when he thought it was Bev in the laundry bag.

[Ottis]

16 minutes ago, Pete Martell said:

While no show is true to life, I don't think the depiction of various forms of struggle is hugely unrealistic. It's not like the old TV episode where people win the lottery and lose the ticket. You have people who have tried their whole lives and just been left behind. Or people like Darlene, who did everything they were supposed to do, but life still pulled the rug out from under them.

Characters like Becky are, for me, about as painfully true to life as a sitcom can get. Not the whole bit about being impregnated by an illegal immigrant who is then deported (that is melodrama, albeit melodrama that has some poignancy, predictable as the whole scenario was), but everything else about her - the "smart" person who was supposed to be more than she is, who got kicked hard by life and never got back up, who's scared, who hates herself, who is simultaneously numbed by a daily routine and terrified of what will happen when she wakes up in the morning. 

In this excerpt, I'm not quoting a lot of very thoughtful comments from Pete Martell, and I liked what you wrote. My specific question is, how did life pull the rug out from Darlene and Becky? Partially because I wasn't a frequent enough viewer to remember, partially because, of what I *do* remember, Darlene and Becky both were complicit and made choices that led directly to their lives. Those choices led to this episode, and the choices they face today, which continue to be poor, IMO.

[Pete Martell]

3 minutes ago, Ottis said:

In this excerpt, I'm not quoting a lot of very thoughtful comments from Pete Martell, and I liked what you wrote. My specific question is, how did life pull the rug out from Darlene and Becky? Partially because I wasn't a frequent enough viewer to remember, partially because, of what I *do* remember, Darlene and Becky both were complicit and made choices that led directly to their lives. Those choices led to this episode, and the choices they face today, which continue to be poor, IMO.

Darlene got a good job, was happily married to David, they were raising their daughter, and she became pregnant again. When she was pregnant, Mark died, and David flaked out, leaving Darlene to be a single mother to a distressed child and a newborn baby. She lost her job and had to move back home. 

Becky was probably not in the upwardly mobile path of Darlene, but she was married, and, presumably, happy with her husband. He died young and suddenly. She was clearly traumatized by his death, as she's said she never wanted to have children with another man.

[Pete Martell]

29 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Here it was obvious that Mathew Brodrick was only with Jackie because a nebbish puffy loser does not have a lot of options for sugar mommas. Her anger did not feel real. I know they wanted her to missRoseanne comforting her but there are better ways to do that.

I thought that her anger felt real to a point - her confrontation with Peter had some strong moments. Unfortunately they gave into the "wacky Jackie" temptation so everything from then on became much more uneven, including her meltdown at the Lunch Box. Still, there were some nice nuggets for Laurie Metcalf and there were some moments that felt like Jackie to me, so I shouldn't be ungrateful.

[qtpye]

17 minutes ago, Pete Martell said:

I thought that her anger felt real to a point - her confrontation with Peter had some strong moments. Unfortunately they gave into the "wacky Jackie" temptation so everything from then on became much more uneven, including her meltdown at the Lunch Box. Still, there were some nice nuggets for Laurie Metcalf and there were some moments that felt like Jackie to me, so I shouldn't be ungrateful.

When she threw that bottle it went from wacky Jackie to Holy shit really fast

[Melina22]

If Jackie had that public meltdown sober, it wouldn't have been believable. Sober, she always tries to project her "life coach" persona. But because she overdrank, to the point she barely remembered it the next day, a whole other side of her was unleashed. An enraged, griefstricken side that she normally hides even from herself. I think this is what was so poignant. That and how sad and loving her family was, seeing her such a mess. I found it very touching and realistic. And a good reason to not drink whisky straight from the bottle when you're in crisis. 😊

[Pete Martell]

On paper, I'd probably find the whole Emilio story a bit gross (the adorable, loveable foreigner who wins over the family and impregnates Becky before breaking their art with a deportation), but the actor was so perfect in the role, and he and Lecy Goranson had a sweet chemistry. It was nice to see Becky hopeful again for a moment, even as you knew it wasn't going to last. I guess we'll go back to basics next season, if there is a next season, but I hope they will let Becky get a bit of light the way she did in this episode. 

If I ever have time I would be tempted to try to track which episodes John Goodman was ailing in and which he was fine in. It's so inconsistent week to week. This was another episode where he was in much better form - he didn't seem as out of breath or as frail, even compared to just a week or two ago.

Did anyone else laugh at poor Michael Fishman having more airtime in that American Housewife promo that he did in the actual episode?

[libgirl2]

15 hours ago, Jul 68 said:

I'm sure that was intentional. 

He amazes me. When I started watching BBT I never thought of him as David. Now that he is back as David, I don't think of him as Leonard. He not only acts different but he looks different. His eyes don't seem as bright or something. He looks down and defeated, while Leonard looks happy. 

On a side note, I love tuna casserole. And yes, I would eat it cold. 

[BeachDays]

Just watched the ep.  About to rewatch.   Holy crap that was amazing.   I wish it had been an hour long though.   I have so much to say but will probably say it in bits and pieces.   One point right now:

 

I thought the kids reactions were also unrealistic but I think that’s bc if either of them didn’t want to move or seemed at all hesistant, Darlene would have said no because of them.   The way I justify it in my head is they are children and maybe just got excited without thinking of the new dynamics living with a new authority figure.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I think the last season very strongly implied that they had lost the Lunchbox around the same time they nearly lost their house

The Conners nearly lost their house when the bike shop went under. Bev bailed them out with money she got from her divorce. They used that money to open The Lunch Box. So those two incidents are separate. The Lunch Box was always doing fairly well and the last we heard of it was after the Conners won the lottery (Roseanne and Jackie sold their shares to Nancy and Leon). Since the lottery win has been retconned we do not know what became of The Lunch Box.

I'd still be interested to know whether or not Fred ever existed in this new timeline. Fred was a good, stable partner for Jackie and she tossed him aside simply because she was bored with him. So picking the "wrong" guys isn't really her main problem. (Gary was a good boyfriend too; she dumped him because he disagreed with her decision to quit the police force after she was assigned desk duty.) 

I tend to agree this show is making it hard for the audience to root for the characters due to their poor decisions but, again (I'm a broken record on this) I'm so unsure of what did or didn't happen in this new timeline it's hard to say how many of those choices actually took place. 

I have no problem with Darlene pulling back a bit towards Ben. That relationship is way too new for her to already be moving in with him IMO, and if she has any residual feelings for David she owes it to herself and to Ben to go slower. 

[hnygrl]

The ONLY good thing about that mess was Laurie Metcalf. Holy smokes she's good. Who didn't see the poor bastard getting departed? Seriously, who didn't see that like 5 episodes ago? I thought it would be Dan's fault somehow, so them doing a sweep at the restaurant was unexpected. 

I am so over the Darlene/David mess. The NERVE of this asshole. EXPECTING...EXPECTING!!! Expecting her to literally drop everything in her life, in her world, just because he changed his mind. EFF you David, you don't get to do that. Mark was a FETUS when he left. And he expects that because he's been a 6 day a month parent for a few months he's ready to be a dad again? Hell no. She's finally got a real man who loves not only her but her CHILDREN and THIS fool LITERALLY EXPECTS HER TO DROP HIM AND TAKE HIM BACK????

 

GOD I haaaate this show!!!! Trying to go along with it for the sake of the past but this is way too much.

[Pete Martell]

4 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'd still be interested to know whether or not Fred ever existed in this new timeline. Fred was a good, stable partner for Jackie and she tossed him aside simply because she was bored with him. So picking the "wrong" guys isn't really her main problem. (Gary was a good boyfriend too; she dumped him because he disagreed with her decision to quit the police force after she was assigned desk duty.) 

I think with Jackie the message isn't so much that she always has the wrong man (although she has had her share) and more that she just keeps self-sabotaging. 

I'd like to know about Fred too but that story really made me grow to dislike her character and led me to quit watching so I'm not sure I want to tempt fate.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

I chuckled when Dan talked about being at the mall and listing the stores that closed.  Sears. Radio Shack.  Spencer's Gifts.  All stores that have closed at my local mall.

I liked that, too.  When I read that we were going to see the Chinese restaurant where The Lunch Box used to be, I said I hoped they would incorporate into conversation the myriad restaurants that had come and gone in between (reflecting the reality that most independent restaurants do not make it anything resembling long term).  They didn't do that, but they made a similar point with that bit.

[Pete Martell]

2 minutes ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

It seems the difference on these last few episodes is we've gone from "Let's explore a good family who is struggling" to one where everybody is so dysfunctional that they seem to have no hope of bettering themselves.

Other than Jackie, I'm not sure the family is struggling because of dysfunction. There is an element of that in Darlene's life, but she isn't completely ending her relationship with Ben even with David wanting her back, so there's room for doubt. Dan is doing his best to cope. So was Becky. 

18 minutes ago, BeachDays said:

 thought the kids reactions were also unrealistic but I think that’s bc if either of them didn’t want to move or seemed at all hesistant, Darlene would have said no because of them.   The way I justify it in my head is they are children and maybe just got excited without thinking of the new dynamics living with a new authority figure.

I thought Harris' reaction made sense. She doesn't like being in Lanford. She has never felt comfortable at the Conner home. She doesn't like her school, to the point where she hides out in a bomb shelter. Once she got to Chicago and actually had to live with Ben she probably would have been unhappy, but for now she still had the fantasy. 

Given that Mark seems much closer to David and also wears his emotions on his sleeve, I think it would have made sense if he'd objected, but the kids are mostly plot devices and they didn't have time for so much else since they had to pack three stories into the finale. 

[willowk]

I was surprised and a bit dismayed that Darlene decided to stay in Lanford because of David. I would have rather had her do it as Jackie is a mess, Becky needs help, or just as she is unsure she wants to uproot the kids away from David. But what can one do? Nothing.  Best part of the episode was Jackie's meltdown, really felt her despair and grief over losing her sister. Good riddance to Matthew Broderick -still can't figure out what happened in that scene a few weeks back when I though she kicked him out, but he is out of the picture for sure now.

[TheLastKidPicked]

8 minutes ago, Bastet said:

2 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

I chuckled when Dan talked about being at the mall and listing the stores that closed.  Sears. Radio Shack.  Spencer's Gifts.  All stores that have closed at my local mall.

 

8 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I liked that, too.  When I read that we were going to see the Chinese restaurant where The Lunch Box used to be, I said I hoped they would incorporate into conversation the myriad restaurants that had come and gone in between (reflecting the reality that most independent restaurants do not make it anything resembling long term).  They didn't do that, but they made a similar point with that bit.

And here is where they touched on something happening to people left behind in this economy.  Even if you are successful, such as owning a small appliance store, or a restaurant, it doesn't matter how hard you work if tastes change and customers have moved on to something else.

Edited January 23, 2019 by TheLastKidPicked

[willowk]

16 hours ago, Stacey1014 said:

They packed a lot of stuff into this episode. It was well done and it was nice to see the old Lunch Box set. 

Mead I the only one who expected Harris and Mark have some sort of response to Darlene about David wanting to get back together since they were in the kitchen while David and Darlene were talking?

Yes, but also I was surprised at how eager they were to move back to Chicago -I would have expected some mixed feelings at least, especially from Mark.

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

 

And here is where they touched on something happening to people left behind in this economy.  Even if you are successful, such as owning a small appliance store, or a restaurant, it doesn't matter how hard you work if tastes change and customers have moved on to something else.

I live near a mall and it seems stores are closing all the time, especially the big ones. They had a wonderful Middle Eastern place in the food court that was just the best..... guy couldn't make it. They even lost the McDonald's at the food court. When we go on vacations, we like to visit nearby malls. So many are empty. We went to one mall that had under restaurant listings the self serve gumball machines. 

[Pete Martell]

23 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

He amazes me. When I started watching BBT I never thought of him as David. Now that he is back as David, I don't think of him as Leonard. He not only acts different but he looks different. His eyes don't seem as bright or something. He looks down and defeated, while Leonard looks happy. 

On a side note, I love tuna casserole. And yes, I would eat it cold. 

He's felt a bit more at ease in the character with each appearance. I decided not to read the blurb for the episode so I had no idea he'd be making another appearance this season. I agree that it really is impressive how different he is with the two characters. I always found Leonard whiny and borderline insufferable, whereas even at his weakest I still have a soft spot for David. 

7 minutes ago, willowk said:

I was surprised and a bit dismayed that Darlene decided to stay in Lanford because of David. I would have rather had her do it as Jackie is a mess, Becky needs help, or just as she is unsure she wants to uproot the kids away from David. But what can one do? Nothing.  Best part of the episode was Jackie's meltdown, really felt her despair and grief over losing her sister. Good riddance to Matthew Broderick -still can't figure out what happened in that scene a few weeks back when I though she kicked him out, but he is out of the picture for sure now.

The whole thing with Darlene seemed so vague. David was likely the biggest reason, but she was still sticking to her guns until they got the call about Jackie. I think her decision was based on a few factors. They also seemed to be threading the needle on both relationships in case they decide to keep her with Ben, as Sara Gilbert said in an interview she is glad people are divided on who Darlene should be with. 

[BeachDays]

Just rewatched.  Still love it.   I’m surprised what they were able to pack in 22 minutes. I’m not seeing all the problems everyone else is seeing-   Yes things are looking back now but as Darlene said, life is ever changing.   The family is all together at the end and together there is hope.   Even sweet Emilio is determined to find his way back somehow.

 

  I can understand being upset with David but the biggest complaint I have seen against him is that he is wishy-washy and has no backbone.   Here?  He showed backbone.  And he resonated with Darlene.   Like someone else said, she isn’t staying bc of her dad.   She is staying because she wants to see how this thing with David will play out.  And Ben could sense something is amiss.   I cannot wait to see how this all plays out next season.   

 

And Jackie???  She came to an epiphany herself.   I need to see what that looks like.   How she is going to look inside herself for happiness.  

 

This is definitely one of the best episodes of the season IMO. 

5 minutes ago, Pete Martell said:

He's felt a bit more at ease in the character with each appearance. I decided not to read the blurb for the episode so I had no idea he'd be making another appearance this season. I agree that it really is impressive how different he is with the two characters. I always found Leonard whiny and borderline insufferable, whereas even at his weakest I still have a soft spot for David. 

The whole thing with Darlene seemed so vague. David was likely the biggest reason, but she was still sticking to her guns until they got the call about Jackie. I think her decision was based on a few factors. They also seemed to be threading the needle on both relationships in case they decide to keep her with Ben, as Sara Gilbert said in an interview she is glad people are divided on who Darlene should be with. 

 

I actually don’t think it was too vague-  watch her facial expressions and what she actually says to Ben.   She is using her dad as an excuse but the entire convo is about David.  

[willowk]

13 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I live near a mall and it seems stores are closing all the time, especially the big ones. They had a wonderful Middle Eastern place in the food court that was just the best..... guy couldn't make it. They even lost the McDonald's at the food court. When we go on vacations, we like to visit nearby malls. So many are empty. We went to one mall that had under restaurant listings the self serve gumball machines. 

Yes, malls are dying due to online shopping. Which pulls money out of local economies and towards the big retailers and shopping sites like Amazon.

Edited January 23, 2019 by willowk
correct spelling

[TheLastKidPicked]

Does this talk about the Conners and malls dying out remind you of anything?

Say it with me. . . 

Rodbell's!

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

It seems the difference on these last few episodes is we've gone from "Let's explore a good family who is struggling" to one where everybody is so dysfunctional that they seem to have no hope of bettering themselves.

As Cousin Eddie would say while shooting his finger gun: "Bin-go!" 

 

20 minutes ago, MarthaEllisanne said:

But fast-forward 20 years later and the family is somehow worse off than they were in the first run.

Cousin Eddie: "Ditto!"

 

59 minutes ago, willowk said:

Yes, malls are dying due to online shopping.

Malls actually started dying long before online shopping. Back in the early 90s there were articles about this, noting how consumer tastes had changed and fewer people wanted to be inside all day shopping in an air conditioned box. Outdoor malls became the rage, where (climate permitting, and sometimes even with climate issues they would have heaters, etc. "being outside" between stores was what people wanted. Trends toward authenticity and shiny new things accelerated mall decline, as malls became a symbol of the opposite. And then online shopping came along. I spent many a weekend as a teen in a mall, with its movie theatres and video game arcade. I didn't care if it was a dark box! But I digress.

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Fred was a good, stable partner for Jackie and she tossed him aside simply because she was bored with him. So picking the "wrong" guys isn't really her main problem.

Yeah, so ... choices. 

43 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

David is pratically trying to guilt trip Darlene into getting back with him, just like he tired to guilt her into running away with him.

Agree, and I hate this type of behavior with a white hot intensity. It's actually a bit glamorized today, with young, attractive males saying, "Why you want to do me like that?" and young women "coming around" to the guy's entitled POV. Ugh. Guys do it all the time, and I have repeatedly discussed this with our daughter so that if a dude tries it she can laugh in his face, call him a loser and move on with her life.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Ottis

[StaceyNotStacie]

4 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

I chuckled when Dan talked about being at the mall and listing the stores that closed.  Sears. Radio Shack.  Spencer's Gifts.  All stores that have closed at my local mall.

I wish they would have thrown Rodbell’s in there since that was the store from the original series. 

[BeachDays]

Some of my favorite comedic moments:

 

I think the tattoo thing was an inside joke bc I remember reading Galecki and his real life girlfriend got tattoos several months back.  I love “Show the kids your tattoo so they know it’s not cool anymore”. 

 

The Bev in the body bag joke was the funniest thing Peter has said all season, both the initial comment and follow up discussion.  

 

”Your dad- you know him right?  Dan?”  

 

Also I loved every moment with Harris in this episode.   She has been finally hitting her stride lately.   

[eel2178]

17 hours ago, UYI said:

I think the last season very strongly implied that they had lost the Lunchbox around the same time they nearly lost their house, so even though it's sad they don't have it anymore, at least we know what became of the building afterward now.

I suppose we could assume that they kept the Lunch Box going until the 2008 mortgage crisis. They had a second mortgage on the house with an adjustable interest rate. It reset to a higher payment, and they had to chose between keeping the house or keeping the business. The same with Jackie and her house, except she wasn't able to keep either. In dire financial straights, Andy went to live with Fred and refused to have further contact with Jackie. Thus, Jackie decided to become a life coach to prevent other people from making her mistakes.

That being said, I don't know why Leon wouldn't have bought out Rosanne and Jackie's shares.

Apparently, I have too much time on my hands.

Edited January 23, 2019 by eel2178

[blondiec0332]

5 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

That being said, I don't know why Leon wouldn't have bought out Rosanne and Jackie's shares.

As much as I am enjoying this show it's questions like this that irk me.  How hard would it be to drop a line into the script that explained what happened to the Lunchbox?

6 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

The same with Jackie and her house, except she was able to keep either. In dire financial straights, Andy went to live with Fred and refused to have further contact with Jackie. Thus, Jackie decided to become a life coach to prevent other people from making her mistakes.

I would believe this.  

[methodwriter85]

I lived in a depressed Western PA town for two years, and I remember going to eateries that were "new" but it was pretty obvious that the new owners didn't have enough money to update the interiors, so I kind of loved that detail about the Lunch Box. It was so realistic.

[eel2178]

16 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

Yeah, that ICE raid was telegraphed from the beginning of the episode. 

It was foreshadowed in the last episode. As soon as Becky said she wanted to trust Emilio but she was afraid he'd leave, it was pretty obvious he would be leaving but not by choice.

[BeachDays]

5 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

It was foreshadowed in the last episode. As soon as Becky said she wanted to trust Emilio but she was afraid he'd leave, it was pretty obvious he would be leaving but not by choice.

 

Yep Jackie even said he might get deported or he might be around for another  20 years.  

[eel2178]

17 hours ago, SirFilligryFlirt said:

  Ohhh look. Emilio got deported. He was just trying to live a better life!! He was there illegally Darlene!  And don't worry he'll come back. But, of course they can't make it illegally again. He'll be a yankee doodle in no time flat.  

They opened the door for a k-1 visa scenario, or a "stop separating families" tirade.

Edited January 23, 2019 by eel2178

[UYI]

3 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

Did anyone else laugh at poor Michael Fishman having more airtime in that American Housewife promo that he did in the actual episode?

I know he's not as strong an actor as the others, but the fact that he was absent in the season finale was JARRING. 

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The Conners nearly lost their house when the bike shop went under. 

Yes they did, but I was specifically referring to a line from the series premiere last year. So it's happened more than once now. 

[eel2178]

12 hours ago, tessaray said:

Crushed potato chips on top of a casserole is meant to mimic bread crumb topping, au gratin style. 

My Midwestern family used bread crumbs or oats in meatloaf to stretch it. Potato chips would be too expensive by the time you added enough.  (And who would waste perfectly good chips in meatloaf? lol.) 

You save the broken chips at the bottom of the bag until you have enough. Nothing gets wasted.

[UYI]

3 hours ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

Does this talk about the Conners and malls dying out remind you of anything?

Say it with me. . . 

Rodbell's!

I wish they could have said whether or not their mall is still called Rodbell's or not. I know the restaurant  where Roseanne, Bonnie and Leon worked is long gone, but wasn't the mall called Rodbell's? Or was it called Lanford Mall and Rodbell's was the department store? 

Edited January 23, 2019 by UYI

[Bastet]

2 minutes ago, UYI said:

I wish they could have said whether or not their mall is still called Rodbell's or not. I know the restaurant  where Roseanne, Bonnie and Leon worked is long gone, but wasn't the mall called Rodbell's? Or was it called Lanford Mall and Rodbell's was the department store? 

The latter; Rodbell's was the department store, and it was within the mall.

[UYI]

2 hours ago, RocknRollZombie said:

 

One of the reasons why I always liked Becky & Mark opposed to Darlene & David. Yeah Becky married Mark because she was afraid that she won't ever see him again, but we have to remember Becky wasn't the one who suggested Marriage. Mark was one who asked her because I'm sure he was scared that he was going to lose the one thing good in his life. 

If you think about Becky and Mark had a way more healthier relationship than their younger siblings.

 

Even though it was probably because they got less attention as time went on and I wish she had done more in life, I always appreciated Mark and Becky's relationship/marriage, too. We'll never know what would have happened if Mark hadn't died, but it was very clear how devoted they were to each other. 

[TV Diva Queen]

3 minutes ago, Bastet said:

The latter; Rodbell's was the department store, and it was within the mall.

And the restaurant was in Rodbell’s that was in the Landford Mall. I always equated Rodbell’s with Marshall Fields. But it didn’t make sense that Fields would be in Landford. 

[Mu Shu]

6 hours ago, Ottis said:

I get where you are coming from, and respect it and agree with it. Intelligent people make poor choices, but often, they were the best choices they could make at the time. The Connors are not those choices. Having a baby in your mid-40s and not knowing who the father is while you work as a waitress as a dead end job is not a series of decisions an intelligent person makes. Refusing to move only 60 minutes away from your family with a man who seems to appreciate and love you to a place both your kids would flourish (most probably) because ... you can't leave your adult, working dad alone? That's not intelligent. Dating Peter? Etc.

Never mind the fact that Jackie is a life coach.  In a town where apparently everyone is a menial laborer.  How can any of these poor people afford her services? And what the fuck is the Matthew Broderick character supposed to be?  

this could be SO good if they would drop the old concept and let the characters grow.  I feel like Dans story is done, and Jackie and Becky’s are beginning.  I also think John Goodman’s heart isn’t in it any longer.  Darlene I can do without on every episode.  Same for the son, forget his damn name.  His wife actually could have a good story.  

[UYI]

1 hour ago, eel2178 said:

I suppose we could assume that they kept the Lunch Box going until the 2008 mortgage crisis. They had a second mortgage on the house with an adjustable interest rate. It reset to a higher payment, and they had to chose between keeping the house or keeping the business. The same with Jackie and her house, except she wasn't able to keep either. In dire financial straights, Andy went to live with Fred and refused to have further contact with Jackie. Thus, Jackie decided to become a life coach to prevent other people from making her mistakes.

That being said, I don't know why Leon wouldn't have bought out Rosanne and Jackie's shares.

Apparently, I have too much time on my hands.

This...actually kind of works for me tbh. 

[izabella]

One of the moments I found most touching was the conversation between Darlene and Dan about her moving to Chicago.  Dan was upbeat and supportive with her, and didn't say anything to make her feel bad or sad.  But as soon as she walked out, we see Dan turn away and his face fell. 

[UYI]

6 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

And the restaurant was in Rodbell’s that was in the Landford Mall. I always equated Rodbell’s with Marshall Fields. But it didn’t make sense that Fields would be in Landford. 

I don't know; Marshall Fields was a Midwestern department store chain with stores in other parts of the Midwest (until you got to Indiana or Ohio, then it was Lazarus); I could see how that would have worked. 

[bigskygirl]

7 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

And the restaurant was in Rodbell’s that was in the Landford Mall. I always equated Rodbell’s with Marshall Fields. But it didn’t make sense that Fields would be in Landford. 

I thought Rodbell's closed down in the original series because I remember Leon telling Roseanne he could not find her a job in the mall because she waited on the department managers too much aka they did not care for her leading to no jobs chances for her.

They are closing down the mall where I live and knocking it down. Rumors are floating around some state offices might move into the spot now.

[UYI]

Just now, bigskygirl said:

I thought Rodbell's closed down in the original series because I remember Leon telling Roseanne he could not find her a job in the mall because she waited on the department managers too much aka they did not care for her leading to no jobs chances for her.

They are closing down the mall where I live and knocking it down. Rumors are floating around some state offices might move into the spot now.

The restaurant closed down, at least. I thought the department/clothing store part of it stayed around. 

[chitowngirl]

I thought just the Rodbell’s restaurant closed.

[eel2178]

9 minutes ago, izabella said:

One of the moments I found most touching was the conversation between Darlene and Dan about her moving to Chicago.  Dan was upbeat and supportive with her, and didn't say anything to make her feel bad or sad.  But as soon as she walked out, we see Dan turn away and his face fell. 

I thought that was relief that he didn't have to provide financial support for them anymore.

[BeachDays]

1 minute ago, eel2178 said:

I thought that was relief that he didn't have to provide financial support for them anymore.

He seemed upset to me-  he was going to support her but didn’t want her to go.  

7 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

That's one thing that always will irked me. We got to know more about Mark's home life/upbringing through David. We only got a glimpse and mentions of their marriage in the later seasons. But I appericiated that glimpse because it spoke volumes. They would have waited for each other. Example, Mark telling Becky that It would have taken them four years more to get were they are if Becky had gone to college. And yes they were loyal to each other during both their dating phase(Dean wasn't a serious thing for Becky,Mark wouldn't go out with any other girl even though Becky told him to.) and marriage. While Darlene and David had this whole on again off again thing during their dating phase. But at least their a nice thing called fanfiction in which I can write all my headcannons.

 

Darlene and David can have a better relationship now, if they choose to.   It’s not out of their control.  People keep ripping on David but Darlene wasn’t exactly the nicest most supportive partner.  Now?  She seems like she can be exactly that.   Let’s see if David steps up.