The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[nobodyyoucare]

How can Marvel plan an Inhumans movie when they don't have rights to FF yet? I mean I find those two groups so interlinked in the Marvel Universe.

Agents of Shield is showing how the Inhumans work in the Marvel Movie Universe. Inhumans are part of the Kree/Guardians of the Galaxy story motiff.

 

Marvel/Disney clearly has a plan on how to make an Inhumans movie work. Right now Fox is probably kicking themselves for not selling back FF to Marvel for what Marvel was saying they were willing to pay. 

[VCRTracking]

 

Plus you have Iron Man, who has no secret identity (kind of like most MCU heroes) and announces his home address on TV. Aren't all of those people kind of registered by default, which makes me wonder what they are fighting over.

It's rumored to actually less about a the registration act(or "Accords" as they're called in the film) and more about Bucky and the things he did as the Winter Soldier under HYDRA's control like killing Tony's parents.

 

On the plus side, Vision and the Scarlet Witch are on opposite teams so hopefully we won't be getting their stupid love story anytime soon.

 

Or it could be a 'Romeo and Juliet' situation. They're young(she's about 20 and he's like a year old) starcrossed lovers belonging to feuding "families".

Edited August 9, 2015 by VCRTracking

[JessePinkman]

Marvel/Disney clearly has a plan on how to make an Inhumans movie work. Right now Fox is probably kicking themselves for not selling back FF to Marvel for what Marvel was saying they were willing to pay.

How much were they willing to pay?

[Bruinsfan]

I'm guessing considerably more than minus $60 million, which is where the box office currently stands with regard to the production budget alone. Add maybe another negative hundred million or so for marketing and distribution. If it doesn't rally quickly—and let's face it, it has worse word of mouth than anything since the bubonic plague—it will end up costing Fox more than John Carter did Disney.

[nobodyyoucare]

A percentage cut of what the FF movies and associated merchandise under Marvel would make. Otherwise a hundred or two hundred million dollars.  

 

It was rumored Marvel tried to get the rights back for Galactus and Silver Surfer in exchange for an extension on Daredevil rights. Fox apparently didn't want to play ball. Fox lost the rights to Daredevil movies etc hence why Marvel is able to make the Daredevil and by eventually Defenders netflix series. 

 

So there is bad blood between Fox and Marvel over movie and merchandise rights. Sony wanted to play ball because Sony saw having Spiderman star in the MCU as a way to make a lot of money for little risk.

[lion10]

So according to Heroic Hollywood here's how the teams align in Captain America: Civil War

Team Cap

1) Captain America(leader)

2) Hawkeye

3) Falcon

4) Scarlet Witch

5) The Winter Soldier

6) Ant-Man

Team Iron Man:

1) The Vision

3) Spider-Man

2) Iron Man(leader)

3) Spider-Man

4) Black Widow

5) War Machine

And according to Kevin Feige Black Panther is neutral.

Yeah...Tony's team is taking this. I haven't seen Ant-Man yet but I don't see how this is equal. Two iron man suits, the iron spider, and The Vision? No one on Steve's team will be able to take any hits from these guys and they have no answer at all to the Vision. Their only hope is if Wanda could atomize him like she did the Ultron Droids but that wasn't a conscious thing.

[Trini]

So according to Heroic Hollywood here's how the teams align in Captain America: Civil War

 

Yeah, I've heard of this guy on another forum. His reliability is so-so, and he supposedly puts out as much speculation as facts.

[Danny Franks]

Yeah...Tony's team is taking this. I haven't seen Ant-Man yet but I don't see how this is equal. Two iron man suits, the iron spider, and The Vision? No one on Steve's team will be able to take any hits from these guys and they have no answer at all to the Vision. Their only hope is if Wanda could atomize him like she did the Ultron Droids but that wasn't a conscious thing.

 

I wouldn't say that, necessarily. Steve has super strength and durability, Bucky appeared to have similar in Cap 2, as well as having the bionic arm and the proficiency in all sorts of weapons (and he went toe-to-toe with Iron Man in the Captain America comic book, fighting him to a draw). Hawkeye can use explosive or other trick arrows to damage Tony and Rhodey's suits. Ant-Man could shrink small enough to get inside the suit and punch them in the nuts.

 

The Vision is the only one who they really couldn't do much to, but if he's the 'worthy' individual he's supposed to be, he'd never go all out to fight them anyway. Because he'd recognise that they were good people who he felt were simply on the wrong side of the issue and attempt to reason with them, secure in the knowledge that they can't really hurt him. If they have him just lashing out like Clor did in the comic book version, then it would ruin his character before he's even established.

 

Oh, and here's another reason that they should have kept Quicksilver alive. Because he'd be someone who could slot right in to one of the teams without them having to throw in the ridiculous hail mary of Spider-Man v3.0.

[VCRTracking]

Peter in Civil War was more than another superpowered soldier in the fight. Tony became like a surrogate father to him, which will probably be even more apparent now that he's a teenager than somebody pushing 30 in the comics.

[Kel Varnsen]

Yeah...Tony's team is taking this. I haven't seen Ant-Man yet but I don't see how this is equal. Two iron man suits, the iron spider, and The Vision? No one on Steve's team will be able to take any hits from these guys and they have no answer at all to the Vision. Their only hope is if Wanda could atomize him like she did the Ultron Droids but that wasn't a conscious thing.

If Spidey is anything close to the level of powers he has in the comics, he will be crazy powerful in terms of the MCU terms. I mean the proportional strength, the speed/agility, plus a power that is basically the ability to predict the future (spider sense) put him probably on the top level of powers. Certainly way more powerful than Cap.

 

I'm guessing considerably more than minus $60 million, which is where the box office currently stands with regard to the production budget alone. Add maybe another negative hundred million or so for marketing and distribution. If it doesn't rally quickly—and let's face it, it has worse word of mouth than anything since the bubonic plague—it will end up costing Fox more than John Carter did Disney.

They should have done something different. Rather than even try to make a straight up super hero movie, they should have done something on the cheap that was part Roger Corman FF movie but also kind of like that Ben Stiller Starsky and Hutch movie where they were making fun of themselves as well. Something with a comedy twist could have been a hilarious way to hang onto those rights.

 

It's rumored to actually less about a the registration act(or "Accords" as they're called in the film) and more about Bucky and the things he did as the Winter Soldier under HYDRA's control like killing Tony's parents.

Is that actually a thing? Because I have suggested that a bunch of times, but never seen it anywhere else. And if you look at the teams that would make more sense. I mean Hawkeye (a victim of mind control) would probably not want Bucky brought to justice for his actions while under some form or mind control. Neither would the Scarlet Witch, someone who knows what mind control can do. On the other team a military man like Jim Rhodes (also a close friend of Tony) might want Bucky (a former soldier)to face some sort of trial. And the Black Widow has always talked about paying for her past sins. If those were things she did that she wasn't in control of maybe she would want Bucky to pay for his sins too.

 

Or it could be a 'Romeo and Juliet' situation. They're young(she's about 20 and he's like a year old) starcrossed lovers belonging to feuding "families".

 

Oh man I hope not. I remember reading comics where Scarlet Witch and Vision were a couple and even in the crazy-ass world of comics it sounded stupid. Within the MCU it seems like it would be even dumber. And if they even think of suggesting any kind of magic devil-babies I might be out.

[JessePinkman]

If Spider-Man's cameo is as short as has been suggested how will they even have time for him to choose sides? They'll already have to introduce the character and begin establishing relationships with the other heroes, it seems like a lot to also have him choose a group he likes more?

 

The whole idea of the characters in Civil War as they've been defined so far fighting seems so...ridiculous to me? Philosophical arguments, sure but actual physical fighting that isn't brought on by magic (Hulk via Scarlett Witch), drunkedness (Iron Man and War Machine) or more magic (Hulk via Loki) just doesn't make sense to me. I realized that it's an expected trope in the comics but the movies are not the comics obviously.

[lion10]

If Spider-Man's cameo is as short as has been suggested how will they even have time for him to choose sides? They'll already have to introduce the character and begin establishing relationships with the other heroes, it seems like a lot to also have him choose a group he likes more?

 

The whole idea of the characters in Civil War as they've been defined so far fighting seems so...ridiculous to me? Philosophical arguments, sure but actual physical fighting that isn't brought on by magic (Hulk via Scarlett Witch), drunkedness (Iron Man and War Machine) or more magic (Hulk via Loki) just doesn't make sense to me. I realized that it's an expected trope in the comics but the movies are not the comics obviously.

 

That's what I'm really looking forward to.  I want to see the entire inevitable shitshow that results in the team split down the middle.  I'm looking forward to whatever event results in people physically fighting each other as well as the tragic fallout.  It's going to be a long movie though.

[JessePinkman]

That's what I'm really looking forward to.  I want to see the entire inevitable shitshow that results in the team split down the middle.  I'm looking forward to whatever event results in people physically fighting each other as well as the tragic fallout.  It's going to be a long movie though.

 

I'm exhausted just thinking about it. People say AoU had too many characters (I disagree) but this has even more and has way more to do to tell a coherent story.

 

They could drop Russet Renner and I'd let it all go though.

[OakGoblinFly]

Yeah...Tony's team is taking this. I haven't seen Ant-Man yet but I don't see how this is equal. Two iron man suits, the iron spider, and The Vision? No one on Steve's team will be able to take any hits from these guys and they have no answer at all to the Vision. Their only hope is if Wanda could atomize him like she did the Ultron Droids but that wasn't a conscious thing.

 

Team Cap has Scarlet Witch and she is one of the most (if not the most) powerful Avengers ..... the girl can freaking alter reality (House of M).

I am really having a hard time trying to wrap my head around what the whole civil war/superhero registration thing means in the context of the MCU. I mean looking at the people in those lists taking sides you have Cap, War Machine, Black Widow, Falcon, Hawkeye and the Winter Soldier all of whom used to work for SHIELD and/or the US military. Plus you have Iron Man, who has no secret identity (kind of like most MCU heroes) and announces his home address on TV. Aren't all of those people kind of registered by default, which makes me wonder what they are fighting over. 

 

 

While there is the forced registration issue - I think the movie might focus on the fact that the superheros are now agents of the government and will be utilized by the government as a specialized team of first responders (complete with red tape).

 

Of course there is the turmoil created when the Winter Solider's crimes are made public and he is revealed to be Bucky Barnes, Cap's BFF.

 

A percentage cut of what the FF movies and associated merchandise under Marvel would make. Otherwise a hundred or two hundred million dollars.  

 

It was rumored Marvel tried to get the rights back for Galactus and Silver Surfer in exchange for an extension on Daredevil rights. Fox apparently didn't want to play ball. Fox lost the rights to Daredevil movies etc hence why Marvel is able to make the Daredevil and by eventually Defenders netflix series. 

 

So there is bad blood between Fox and Marvel over movie and merchandise rights. Sony wanted to play ball because Sony saw having Spiderman star in the MCU as a way to make a lot of money for little risk.

 

 

And I, for one, am very glad that happened because Netflix's Daredevil is brilliant - gives me high hopes for Jessica Jones,  The Defenders, and the other Marvel projects they have in the works.

 

I only wish Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D were half as good (while it's gotten better, it is still to uneven for me to thoroughly enjoy).

Edited August 10, 2015 by OakGoblinFly

[Eegah]

For me, the worst part about the Fantastic Four not being part of it is that we won't get to see Reed pay for his horrible actions in the Civil War, as in the comics that all fell on Tony's shoulders (not that he didn't deserve every bit of it himself) while Reed just got to skate on building a prison for people who were supposed to be his friends. Somehow I don't think the movies would let that slide, so it seems Tony is once again going to bear the brunt of that.

[CMH1981]

 

If Spider-Man's cameo is as short as has been suggested how will they even have time for him to choose sides? They'll already have to introduce the character and begin establishing relationships with the other heroes, it seems like a lot to also have him choose a group he likes more?

 

Just because Holland is done filming on Cap 3 doesn't mean Spider-Man is, stuntmen will do the remainder of filming Spider-Man's role in the film.

 

 

Team Cap has Scarlet Witch and she is one of the most (if not the most) powerful Avengers ..... the girl can freaking alter reality (House of M).

 

It's yet to be seen if movie Scarlet Witch has the same skill set and powers as the comics version. 

[Bruinsfan]

It's yet to be seen if movie Scarlet Witch has the same skill set and powers as the comics version. 

So far she's demonstrated Jean Grey-style telekinesis and telepathy rather than the comic version's more esoteric powers. However, her telekinesis was strong enough to crack Ultron's vibranium armor, and it's been established that the Vision's brain is enough like a living human's for her telepathy to work on it.

[VCRTracking]

 

For me, the worst part about the Fantastic Four not being part of it is that we won't get to see Reed pay for his horrible actions in the Civil War, as in the comics that all fell on Tony's shoulders (not that he didn't deserve every bit of it himself) while Reed just got to skate on building a prison for people who were supposed to be his friends. Somehow I don't think the movies would let that slide, so it seems Tony is once again going to bear the brunt of that.

 

I always did like the Fantastic Four CW crossover issue written by the late Dwayne McDuffie where it explains why he sided with Tony and supporting the SHRA. He calculated an equation predicting possible disastrous futures that could only be prevented by keeping people with superpowers in check. He gets the villain the Mad Thinker to confirm his equations.

 

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/reedcivil17-620x930.jpg

 

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/reedcivil19-620x930.jpg

 

Reed: The lesser of 31 evils. Each one more horrible than the next. It was the only possible choice. In the other scenarios mankind does not survive.

 

Mad Thinker:(deep in thought) I see no flaws in your equations. The science is unassailable. The S.H.R.A., the prisons for those who will not comply, even Stark's bold plans. Every piece necessary and still, it's a very delicate thing. There's so much that can still go wrong.

 

And you. So brilliant and still so naive. You thought you could make these moves without personal cost. Without doing evil yourself? Stark doesn't have the mind to appreciate the subtleties of your equations. But he does have the gut instincts of a futurist and the political sense to know that his actions would make him reviled among his former friends in the superhero community.

 

And he's man enough to do what needs to be done. Even knowing full well what it will cost him. Few outside this room will understand the sacrifice he's made, even if he wins.

 

And then, there's you. Understanding the intricacies of the big picture. While walking further and further down the path of evil.

 

Edited August 10, 2015 by VCRTracking

[benteen]

Team Cap has Scarlet Witch and she is one of the most (if not the most) powerful Avengers ..... the girl can freaking alter reality (House of M).

 

 

While there is the forced registration issue - I think the movie might focus on the fact that the superheros are now agents of the government and will be utilized by the government as a specialized team of first responders (complete with red tape).

 

Of course there is the turmoil created when the Winter Solider's crimes are made public and he is revealed to be Bucky Barnes, Cap's BFF.

 

 

 

And I, for one, am very glad that happened because Netflix's Daredevil is brilliant - gives me high hopes for Jessica Jones,  The Defenders, and the other Marvel projects they have in the works.

 

I only wish Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D were half as good (while it's gotten better, it is still to uneven for me to thoroughly enjoy).

 

The funny thing is in the comics, the Avengers were almost always under the authority of the United Nations.  Which became absolutely laughable in later years as the UN is one of the most ineffectual and corrupt organizations on the planet.  But it's treated like it actually has authority in the Marvel Universe.

 

Reed siding with the pro-registration faction isn't much of a surprise.  He always put his own interests ahead of his family and in other matters he, like Tony, felt his intelligence entitled him to play Russian Roulette with the planet.

 

Best thing to happen to Daredevil was going back to Marvel and being put on television, which its storylines and storytelling would thrive.  Hell, they tried to do it back in the 80s with DD appearing in The Trial of the Incredible Hulk.  DD could absolutely work as a film but Netflix and the limits they can push the storytelling is the best home for it.

Edited August 10, 2015 by benteen

[lion10]

So far she's demonstrated Jean Grey-style telekinesis and telepathy rather than the comic version's more esoteric powers. However, her telekinesis was strong enough to crack Ultron's vibranium armor, and it's been established that the Vision's brain is enough like a living human's for her telepathy to work on it.

It's a moot point since this won't happen, but most of Tony's team could speed blitz her and a solid punch would probably kill her. It seems everyone in the MCU is severely depowered so there won't be any House of M shenanigans in the MCU.

Who wins in the Civil War originally?

I also want Captain America 3 to acknowledge just how badly Tony fucked up in Age of Ultron. He almost got the entire human race killed.

Edited August 10, 2015 by lion10

[Eegah]

The pro-reg side won in the comics, with the final blow being Captain America being killed by Sharon Carter with a sniper rifle. I've heard they later retconned that so she wasn't actually responsible, but I really can't be arsed to care about anything but the movies at this point.

 

Apparently Tony will be taking the pro-reg side specifically to atone for Ultron, so it's got that going for it.

[VCRTracking]

Also in the comics, the inciting incident was a battle with a nuclear powered supervillain and he blows up killing school children in Connecticut, so.....

[Kel Varnsen]

While there is the forced registration issue - I think the movie might focus on the fact that the superheros are now agents of the government and will be utilized by the government as a specialized team of first responders (complete with red tape).

 

Of course there is the turmoil created when the Winter Solider's crimes are made public and he is revealed to be Bucky Barnes, Cap's BFF.

 

I hope it is more like that, because registration still doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean being a vigilante is already a crime right? And I would think that there has to be laws in place that would cover if someone used their super powers in public creating a dangerous situation (even if they weren't doing it intentionally). If you already have those things, and an intelligence agency keeping tabs on who has powers, and most of your true heavy hitters already being celebrities/government agents, what more does registration get you?

[Raja]

I hope it is more like that, because registration still doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean being a vigilante is already a crime right? And I would think that there has to be laws in place that would cover if someone used their super powers in public creating a dangerous situation (even if they weren't doing it intentionally). If you already have those things, and an intelligence agency keeping tabs on who has powers, and most of your true heavy hitters already being celebrities/government agents, what more does registration get you?

I know it is the prejudice that the movies won't be tied to the TV shows even though it is supposed to be one MCU but we are promised an explosion in the number of Inhumans come September and the known Avengers along with Ant-Man and the covert SHIELD agents should have plenty of less well known characters in the back ground. Sort of like we know about Ghandi or Dr King fighting for their people but not their people as individuals.

[Demented Daisy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3195433/Captain-America-Civil-War-sequel-filming-sees-stuntman-scale-Berlin-building.html-- costume spoilers?  I mean, it's not a spoiler for me, but people can be awfully sensitive....

Edited August 12, 2015 by Demented Daisy

[JessePinkman]

Even though he's covered literally head to toe Marvel was smart to hire a black stunt man for Black Panther.

[calliope1975]

Even though he's covered literally head to toe Marvel was smart to hire a black stunt man for Black Panther.

 

Not that it's not also a smart decision, but stunt actors have to be the same race as the actor they double, or at least, all efforts have to be made to cast the same race. Even if you don't see the performer. It's bad, bad times when productions are found to be painting down performers.

 

I know the stunt doubles get the shittier versions of the costumes, but I'm liking the fake T'Challa's look. I can't wait to see Chadwick Boseman in the full regalia.  

[JessePinkman]

Not that it's not also a smart decision, but stunt actors have to be the same race as the actor they double, or at least, all efforts have to be made to cast the same race. Even if you don't see the performer. It's bad, bad times when productions are found to be painting down performers.

Yeah I mentioned it specifically because just last month the Disney channel was called out for using a white stunt double for Zendaya on her show. So they don't HAVE to cast the same race (or even the same gender, Beyonce's stunt person in Obsessed was...a man) but they really freaking should.

[Kel Varnsen]

Yeah I mentioned it specifically because just last month the Disney channel was called out for using a white stunt double for Zendaya on her show. So they don't HAVE to cast the same race (or even the same gender, Beyonce's stunt person in Obsessed was...a man) but they really freaking should.

Wow I didn't realize that was really a thing that would get people pissed off. To me I would think you would want the best stuntman available, especially if you are doing stunts that would put the stuntman at risk of injury. Even beyond that in say voice over or a motion capture (Andy Serkis kind of situation) I am not sure I see the issue with trying to get the best person available.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Back in the day, they did use male stuntmen in place of actresses.  The most obvious ones were the ones used for Kate Jackson in Scarecrow & Mrs. King (1983-1987).  I know this is a movie thread, but just wanted to mention that men used to do stunts for both genders.

[benteen]

I always used to joke that Captain Kirk's stuntmen look nothing like him.  I think they used a man for Uhura once but I can't be certain.

[nobodyyoucare]

Back in the day, they did use male stuntmen in place of actresses.  The most obvious ones were the ones used for Kate Jackson in Scarecrow & Mrs. King (1983-1987).  I know this is a movie thread, but just wanted to mention that men used to do stunts for both genders.

Namely because only men were stunt workers and women didn't do it because either they had no training or no interest in doing the work decades ago. 

 

Male stunt doubles and stand ins for women are still out there. Jennifer Lopez had a male stunt double. http://twistedsifter.com/2012/05/actors-and-their-stunt-doubles-photos-gallery/

Penelope Cruz for zoolander 2 has a male stunt double. 

It often comes down to if the person looks enough with wig or hair and can do the stunts. Gender is not the primary concern.

 

 

http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Stand-insadly no page for stunt doubles for the actors and actresses but one actress had a male stand in listed. 

[Danny Franks]

Wow I didn't realize that was really a thing that would get people pissed off. To me I would think you would want the best stuntman available, especially if you are doing stunts that would put the stuntman at risk of injury. Even beyond that in say voice over or a motion capture (Andy Serkis kind of situation) I am not sure I see the issue with trying to get the best person available.

 

I agree. I kinda think that a stuntperson should be cast on two things: their ability to perform the stunts, and then their physical resemblance to the actor. So if you can find a girl the same height, weight and skin tone as Zendaya, who is also a trained stuntwoman, then great. If not, then you have to compromise somewhere and I'd much rather compromise on aesthetics than safety. Though having said that, I have no idea what sort of show this is, which requires stuntpeople on the Disney Channel.

 

They found a stuntman for Black Panther who is black, which is great. But it wouldn't matter to me if they hadn't, but had someone of a different ethnicity who is still the same height, weight and shape. That's what's most important when your character is completely covered up.

[nobodyyoucare]

The stuntman is the actor who plays Black Panther. He is doing his own stunts. 

 

 

requires stuntpeople on the Disney Channel.

There are a number of live action shows on the Disney Channel and associated channels such as Disney XD that would require stunt people. 

 

Mighty Med, K.C. Undercover, Lab Rats to name a few. 

[JessePinkman]

The stuntman is the actor who plays Black Panther. He is doing his own stunts.

That's not Chadwick Boseman.

[nobodyyoucare]

That's not Chadwick Boseman.

Own stunts: Black Panther actor Chadwick Boseman proved to be quite the daredevil and tried his own stunts

 

Photo agencies identify the stunt man as Boseman. 

[drmka9]

Own stunts: Black Panther actor Chadwick Boseman proved to be quite the daredevil and tried his own stunts

 

Photo agencies identify the stunt man as Boseman.

They're also identifying the Winter Soldier stuntman in those photos as Sebastian Stan, when it pretty clearly isn't. Even when an actor does their own stunts on film (as many/most of the MCU actors do), stunt people are usually the ones who run through it over and over for safety checks and getting the scene set (lighting, framing, etc).

[CMH1981]

Why does the Black Panther costume look loose and baggy on the actor/stuntman?  It just looks ill-fitting to me.

[JBC344]

I wonder if that is on purpose.  Now that you mention it I often find that to be the case when I see stuntmen/women.  I wonder if it has to do with there clothing being less constricting to perform said stunt, but the actors "uniform/costume" is allowed to be more fitted. Interesting.

[VCRTracking]

Report of Captain America: Civil War footage at D23:

 

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/72735

 

Really looking forward to seeing Scott Lang(Ant-Man) fanboy over Cap! I can hear Paul Rudd saying the dialogue.

Edited August 16, 2015 by VCRTracking

[KatWay]

I still feel that Marvel is screwing up by sticking so much with the comics canon on this storyline. I just can't see MCU Stark and Cap on their respective sides of the argument. Steve's been working with SHIELD and the government always and is back to an organised approach at the end of Avengers 2, is advocating against team members just going off on their own without checking first. Meanwhile Tony's had nothing but contempt and derision for anything government and Shield-related since day 1 and only just now in Avengers 2 did something huge without consulting anyone first because ultimately he thinks he's right and smarter than everyone else. How is MCU Tony at ALL a guy to advocate for more goverment regulations and restrictions? How does he care about registration when his identity and home are probably known to every last sherpa in Tibet? It really makes no sense to me. Within the established MCU it would make more sense IMO if the positions were reversed - Cap just now in Avengers 2 saw what could happen if team members/unregistered superheroes like Wanda and Pietro went alone about things uncontrolled and Stark on the other hand reacts pretty agressively to even the suggestion of a military/government interference.

[lion10]

The idea is though Tony played it cool during Age of Ultron, he realizes how badly he fucked up and he thinks that maybe if he had someone to tell him "no", he wouldn't have done it (he definitely would have but I can see him trying to delude himself). And while Captain's been working with SHIELD, we already saw him fight against further government control in The Winter Soldier.

[Joe]

Maybe I missed something. Have Marvel confirmed that this is actually about superhero registration? Because there are other reasons for them to turn against each other. Tony built a killer robot, Steve is sheltering the man who killed Tony's father. Everyone sees one of these actions as a greater sin than the other, words get heated, someone thinks someone else is attacking and starts a fight. Instant conflict.

[vb68]

I think it will have a lot to do with Bucky.   That would make Tony's stance much more sympathetic. 

[drmka9]

I think it will have a lot to do with Bucky.   That would make Tony's stance much more sympathetic.

 

I've been hearing that from a bunch of sources.

That's part of why Crossbones is after Cap, too. He's pissed because of what happened to him, but he's really pissed that his pet assassin is no longer a Hydra asset

[tennisgurl]

Here is my working theory on this whole conflict. 

 

It starts with the super hero registration act. Cap and Tony disagree about how much the government should interfere with superheros. Its heated, people take sides, but nothing comes to blows. Then, somehow, everyone finds out about Bucky, and who is is and what he did while he was brainwashed. Tony finds out that Bucky killed his parents, and wants him to face prison time. Cap just wants to help Bucky recover after everything that's happened. That`s when things get personal, and that`s how the conflict boils over into civil war. At least, those are the broad strokes.

 

When will that teaser just leak already?!?! 

[stealinghome]

But if the conflict is over Bucky, how the hell does Natasha end up on Tony's side? I 500% don't believe Natasha of all people would hold the actions of a brainwashed HYDRA/maybe Red Room victim against Bucky. If the conflict is over Bucky, she just makes zero sense on Tony's side. (Assuming she's not a plant, I suppose.) And shouldn't Vision be able to see into Bucky's soul or wtfever and see that Bucky is a brainwashed victim? No matter how you cut it, the teams just don't make sense. It's pretty clear Marvel just divvied the team up at random.

 

The idea is though Tony played it cool during Age of Ultron, he realizes how badly he fucked up and he thinks that maybe if he had someone to tell him "no", he wouldn't have done it (he definitely would have but I can see him trying to delude himself).

That might work if Tony hadn't massively fucked up in creating Ultron...and then went off and created Vision even though Cap and half the team said no because he felt like he really really REALLY knew better this time. If ever there was a time for Tony to back down on Tony Knows Best, wasn't it then?

 

I feel like KatWay on this--the more I hear about the movie, the more apprehensive I am. I want to like it, because CA:TWS is my co-favorite Marvel movie, but I'm becoming more and more skeptical that Civil War is going to pull off the translation to film. They seem to be reaching too much--and frankly, Civil War would be more meaningful if half the Avengers hadn't fought the other half in a bunch of films already to begin with.

[Kel Varnsen]

But if the conflict is over Bucky, how the hell does Natasha end up on Tony's side? I 500% don't believe Natasha of all people would hold the actions of a brainwashed HYDRA/maybe Red Room victim against Bucky. If the conflict is over Bucky, she just makes zero sense on Tony's side. (Assuming she's not a plant, I suppose.) And shouldn't Vision be able to see into Bucky's soul or wtfever and see that Bucky is a brainwashed victim? No matter how you cut it, the teams just don't make sense. It's pretty clear Marvel just divvied the team up at random.

I think it depends on what Steve thinks they should do with Bucky. In Avengers Natasha had that big speech about how she had all that red in her ledger she had to make up for. So she is actively trying to do good things to make up for all the bad stuff she did in her past (even if the bad stuff she did was against her will). Plus at the end of Winter Soldier she basically told congress that if they wanted to arrest her, then go ahead and arrest her. So I can see how she would be on the side of people being held accountable for their actions. 

[vb68]

 

. So I can see how she would be on the side of people being held accountable for their actions.

 

 

This.  She is a known entity now and isn't hiding.  It makes perfect sense to me that she would want Bucky and anybody else to do the same thing.

[drmka9]

Natasha's kind of a weird sticking point: I really can't see her siding against Cap, especially with the other side being Stark-led. But she might have a lot of issues separating Bucky from the Winter Soldier - if she even believes that the two should be separate - and find Cap shielding him intolerable. She did try to hunt him down before Cap was ever in the picture.

 

I'm also not sure the sides will stay all that stagnant, either. There's always potential for switching and double-crossing.