Season 8 Discussion

[sATL]

11 hours ago, floridamom said:

I certainly as a mother understand Michaela's desire to have a baby. She should take this time to appreciate the fact that she is the only married Bates child who actually has been given an opportunity to grow as a couple with Brandon and actually get to know the guy. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that she is the only one there who actually knows her spouse. The others have had almost immediate distractions, BIGGER THAN A TELEVISION IN THE HOUSE....a baby ...and do not know their spouses well at all.

I certainly hope that in the near future Michaela and Brandon are able to conceive. Perhaps she is the only one who is relaxed in her marriage and is really ready to be a mother....

I also hope she has gotten the opportunity to grow as a young woman in her 20s. Find out who Michealla is an adult married woman. Find new friends, explore hobbies.. what happened to all of the little side gigs that she had before marriage? I also thought she was trying sell her handmade creations online - something like little girls clothes.  I thought she went to some kind of EMT training with Zack, people still need day nannies/caretakers/daycare/preschool , should be some role of role a minister's wife can take on . I also hope they do other trips as a couple besides traveling to see the next relations baby or marriage.

Edited February 24, 2019 by sATL

[floridamom]

"Ep-i-TOME....I love it, Lawson. Don't use big words that you don't know how to pronounce. Great homeschooling, there, Kelly!

[RebeccatheWriter]

15 hours ago, sATL said:

I also hope she has gotten the opportunity to grow as a young woman in her 20s. Find out who Michealla is an adult married woman. Find new friends, explore hobbies.. what happened to all of the little side gigs that she had before marriage? I also thought she was trying sell her handmade creations online - something like little girls clothes.  I thought she went to some kind of EMT training with Zack, people still need day nannies/caretakers/daycare/preschool , should be some role of role a minister's wife can take on . I also hope they do other trips as a couple besides traveling to see the next relations baby or marriage.

She's actually one of the only ones to attend college outside of Crown. She took online classes from Roane State. In the episode where the boys attend basketball camp, she mentions this to Carlin and explains she was studying health science because of her EMT training. I think she said she graduated in the spring after she got married, but I could be wrong on that. The rumor was that she was allowed to study at Roane State because she was least likely to stray from the parents' teachings. 

She does have her online store and sells clothes, baby blankets, etc. Given the right training and education, she could really do well with it, as she is doing this well now from her own self-education. 

While I would not a child to be raised in the super fundie environment that would be Brandon and Michael's style, I do feel for her not being able to get pregnant. There is such a sadness to her that I cannot help but think she is internalizing so much of this as a failure on her part to not live up to the status of her sisters and mother. Sometimes she could just use a good screaming session about how unfair it is, but I doubt that happens. 

I also find it to be an interesting dynamic between Michael and Kelly Jo. Kelly Jo spends a lot of money to travel to be present at the births of her grandchildren. Travels to be present for engagements. Spends a lot of money (since they aren't aired I assume it is the family's money) traveling with Gil to conferences and on vacations. And yet there is her daughter who has admitted on camera and off that one of the obstacles to her getting more testing and treatment is money. Maybe Gil and Kelly have offered to help and Brandon/Michael have refused, but it just seems that a parent as involved as Kelly would be more helpful in terms of finances to a daughter who is clearly struggling emotionally. Additionally, Kelly just doesn't seem all that warm toward Michael in comparison to the other girls. It's just a strange dynamic and vibe altogether. 

Michael talks a good game (especially around her wedding) that her mother was her best friend. But that's not the vibe I get at all from her when they interact now. 

That being said, Brandon and Michael seem to travel a lot (ski trips, etc.) too. That doesn't scream to me that they are sinking every dollar they have into trying to have a baby. 

 

[Evagirl]

1 hour ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

There is such a sadness to her that I cannot help but think she is internalizing so much of this as a failure on her part to not live up to the status of her sisters and mother.

I've seen the sadness in her as well.  I wondered if I was just over-thinking it and maybe seeing something that wasn't there.  I know she loves children and was the primary care-taker of the little ones when she lived at home.  When she does come back to Tennessee, she grabs the first baby available, carries it and loves on it.  That's when my heart kinda breaks for this sweet young woman.  The yearning is there - it is so obvious.  But her husband seems to be in the mode of "Lets wait on God."  

Erin could at least get pregnant, but had trouble carrying a child to full term.  It came down to a matter finding out what was physically wrong with Erin and then fixing the problem.  Also, Chad was grieving right along with her, hurting because she was hurting and just wanting her to be happy and fulfilled in her desire for a child.

I don't know if Brandon has that particular kind of love for Micheala or not.  It's hard to tell.  Yeah, he puts he arm around her when they do the THs, and they kiss goodbye and hello when he's coming and going to/from work.  But that deep just-tell-me-what-I-can-do-to-help-you-through-this emotion is absent, IMO.  Maybe he tells her that in private.  I hope so.  I'd hate for her to feel alone in this struggle to have a child.

[RebeccatheWriter]

2 hours ago, Evagirl said:

I've seen the sadness in her as well.  I wondered if I was just over-thinking it and maybe seeing something that wasn't there.  I know she loves children and was the primary care-taker of the little ones when she lived at home.  When she does come back to Tennessee, she grabs the first baby available, carries it and loves on it.  That's when my heart kinda breaks for this sweet young woman.  The yearning is there - it is so obvious.  But her husband seems to be in the mode of "Lets wait on God."  

Erin could at least get pregnant, but had trouble carrying a child to full term.  It came down to a matter finding out what was physically wrong with Erin and then fixing the problem.  Also, Chad was grieving right along with her, hurting because she was hurting and just wanting her to be happy and fulfilled in her desire for a child.

I don't know if Brandon has that particular kind of love for Micheala or not.  It's hard to tell.  Yeah, he puts he arm around her when they do the THs, and they kiss goodbye and hello when he's coming and going to/from work.  But that deep just-tell-me-what-I-can-do-to-help-you-through-this emotion is absent, IMO.  Maybe he tells her that in private.  I hope so.  I'd hate for her to feel alone in this struggle to have a child.

Brandon does seem to be in the wait and trust mode that is typical of people in this particular group. Michael's reactions are much more internal too, at least on camera. I would like to think that she can express her frustration to someone, hopefully, him. Otherwise, I'm sure those are some long trips back to Chicago with the unspoken words about whichever sister just announced another pregnancy. If I have their back story right, he was that way from the beginning. Michael saw and liked him, but did not want to approach him. So she waited, waited, and waited. It was his sisters who pointed out to him that Michael was a nice, good, girl who was interested in him. The other Bates sisters all talk about how the guys they married were pursuing them (except in Carlin's case) and it was an instant attraction thing. 

Chad has that fixer gene in him that a lot of guys have. It drove me insane with my ex. I would come home from a bad day and just want to vent. He wouldn't listen all the way, as he was already plotting and planning how he could fix the situation. It's not a bad thing that Chad is that way, though it can be exhausting. He has been this way all along with Erin, even giving her the shots of heparin. Much like Kelly Jo, if Erin wants it, Chad gets it for her. That said, they still act like two people who are sort of figuring out if they should date. 

Add in there that Erin is much more vocal about things than Michael. Other than a few moments like telling Tori to keep her hands off of Brandon, Michael rarely has been seen voicing a strong opinion on anything. One of the most telling parts of the newlywed game thing they played was that Brandon assumed that SHE disliked the chair that Carlin and Kelly Jo had disliked. That seemed odd that he would assume that and still hold onto it (yes, I know most couples don't agree on decorating and furniture, but it is such a minor concession for her). When Erin and Kelly Jo were helping Michael redecorate, Michael's opinions were always, but Brandon likes... Even when planning the wedding, there was the issue over the date and the church she liked. Erin was all, get a new groom. 

Michael comes off as very passive on things. That's got to be frustrating for Brandon, who doesn't seem as in tune with his emotions or as intuitive as say Chad. Brandon may just be one of those guys who has to be asked before he even realizes a problem. I'll admit I can be one of those people sometimes. It drives co-workers insane because I will be sitting doing my work while they struggle with something and am oblivious to their issue. As I tell them, "just yell out to me that you need help and I'll be right there."

There is one other possibility that could be at play. Brandon may be embarrassed about his own manhood or prowess in not getting Michael pregnant. Where she has dealt with the cameras for a long time and is somewhat more comfortable than him in front of them, he may not want to be seen broadcasting the news to everyone. It's an old fashioned way to think but not out of line with this family. 

[Summer]

I agree with others who point out that Brandon does seem somewhat passive about Michaela, to coin a phrase he just doesn't seem that into her.   

I can't stand Tori.  I could not get over her behavior at her wedding shower, she could not have been more ungrateful and unappreciative.  I feel like Bobby has massive regret about marrying her, but now he's stuck.  Love that he's letting some snide remarks about Tori sneak in on air.  I remember cracking up at one of their couch interviews right after they got married and Tori was saying what a bad "cooker" she was and Bobby was like "Well, first of all the word is "chef" not 'cooker".  Ha!!!  Great home schooling, Kelly Jo! 

[Whyyouneedaname]

On 2/23/2019 at 3:50 PM, sugarplum said:

The every other month thing is inaccurate. Either ovary can release an egg any month. So there’s no way to know (other than checking on ultrasound each month) which side is realeasing the egg, and if it will be the side with the good tube or the bad. I, too, have a blocked tube. We’ve been trying for 2 1/2 years. Tracking ovulation, timed intercourse, medication to stimulate ovaries, we’ve even done IUIs and actually placed the sperm in my uterus (not to be confused with IVF, which is completely different) and...no luck. You definitely CAN get pregnant with just 1 tube, but it’s not always easy. And I’d venture to guess even some of the things my husband and I have done are things Michael and Brandon would view as going against God’s plans. 

* not directed at you, bitterapple!

I have 2 sons born 2 years 7 months apart, no problems conceiving at all. After my second son, delivered by c-section, I had my tubes tied. During the procedure the dr ask if I had ever had any surgeries, I hadn't, he then tells me I only have 1 ovary and 1 tube. He questions whether we had any trouble conceiving, we hadn't...I'm thankful I didn't know any of this prior to having both my boys. I do hope Michael & Brandon are able to have a child, you can just see the longing in her eyes when she's holding a baby.

[IndianPaintbrush]

I had doubts about Brandon in the beginning, but now I think Brandon is just quiet and introverted, which is refreshing in this family. All the little kids seem to love him; he's probably a very good teacher and listener.

[andromeda331]

I know this comes up every time a Bates or Duggar gets married. But seeing Josie mention it in the preview of the next episode how happy they are to finally be alone.  But you know of its great to have chaperones, its totally the couples idea and not at all their parents. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by andromeda331

[LynneH]

2 hours ago, IndianPaintbrush said:

I had doubts about Brandon in the beginning, but now I think Brandon is just quiet and introverted, which is refreshing in this family. All the little kids seem to love him; he's probably a very good teacher and listener.

I never had doubts about Brandon, but I do feel their marriage is going to be on the "quiet" side since both are introverts. 

Psychologically speaking, I feel that parents that are "desperate or determined" to have a biological child should exhaust all means possible before considering adoption.  I've known a couple of adopted children who were pretty much cast aside when the unexpected miracle of a biological child arrived.  

[BitterApple]

Josie and Kelton are really cute together. Asheville provided a beautiful backdrop for their pre-honeymoon getaway. I noticed Kelton was pretty handy in the kitchen. I wonder if that's a sad by-product of being the oldest child and not having a mother.

Bobby is totally sick of Tori. I know he tries to come off funny and joking, but I think he has a serious case of buyer's remorse.

I thought Erin and her diaper bag necessities were hilarious, as was her "lotion on the head" approach to bathing a baby when you're short on time. 

[LongDenimFrumper]

I love Josie. She and Whitney are my favorite of the Bates women. I was a little shocked that Josie was sporting that short dress on the show in Asheville! I know she wears what she wants to now but I was surprised she didn't conceal it longer for the show. That looks like more Citrus & Lemon clothing that all the Duggars and Bates are pushing on social media. Josie made that shirt look cute... Jill Duggar looked frumptastic in hers.... 

I kept noticing how they talked about being alone for the first time. I just can't imagine. The more I watch these shows, the more I realize the reality of their lives. Grow up, get married and procreate ASAP. It's just bizarre when you really get down to it. 

Josie & Kelton are already keeping up with the other couples during their "couch interviews" by constantly touching. The hand holding was a bit awkward. 

TORI... I can't stand her. I feel so badly for Bobby. 

[Evagirl]

53 minutes ago, LongDenimFrumper said:

TORI... I can't stand her. I feel so badly for Bobby. 

But didn't Bobby know what she was like?  I think they courted for something like 2 years, so Tori being such an airhead should not have surprised Bobby.  However, like others have said, I can see it in Bobby's face that he knows he made a life-changing mistake that cannot be undone - at least not and continue to stay in the fold.  The baby makes it almost impossible for him to leave. 

I have always felt that Ben has the same remorse and he decided to just dig his heels in, have more babies and live through it and hope the afterlife will be better.  Okay, that was a snark, but it made me smile while typing it.

[LongDenimFrumper]

I think Bobby's desire for sex outweighed his logical thinking. He probably got in too deep drinking the Bates kool aid and felt he could't back out or rationalized with himself that it would be better once they were married and had a little distance between them and the mega Bates family circus. I'm sure he got a very rude awakening after living with Tori and being with her 24/7. Especially after the honeymoon phase ended and day to day life set in. I can't believe his parents didn't steer him in another direction! I agree with what everyone else is saying... you can see the despair in his eyes, trapped with Tori forever and ever, Amen. 

Edited March 1, 2019 by LongDenimFrumper

[BitterApple]

The majority of Bobby and Tori's relationship was long distance, and I think they did a lot of double-dating with Kelton and Josie. I don't think Bobby got a true sense of who Tori was, especially given that she was likely in "best behavior" mode during the early phases of their courtship. Throw in hormones and desperation to get laid and it's easy to see why he overlooked a lot of red flags.

Tori's biggest problem is she has no filter. She just says the first thing that pops into her head without considering how her words might affect another person. IMO, that is a positively HORRIBLE quality for a Pastor's wife, where sensitivity and discretion are necessary traits.

Edited March 1, 2019 by BitterApple

[gunderda]

On 2/1/2019 at 6:38 PM, Lisa418722 said:

I've never been to Maine, but if I have the chance to go you better bet I will be having some lobster. But seeing how Carlin was acting in the restaurant with the lobster drove me crazy.  Usually whenever I go to a new location, I'm going to try the food. I would rather try it and find out I don't like it than to think later "I should have tried it." 

I planned a week vacation to Maine just so I could eat lobster and crab all day every day! However the last day I was kinda lobstered-out and and ready for a hamburger.  But I can't wait to go back - which is hopefully Summer of 2020. 

[sATL]

50 minutes ago, LongDenimFrumper said:

I think Bobby's desire for sex outweighed his logical thinking. He probably got in too deep drinking the Bates kool aid and felt he could't back out or rationalized with himself that it would be better once they were married and had a little distance between them and the mega Bates family circus. I'm sure he got a very rude awakening after living with Tori and being with her 24/7. Especially after the honeymoon phase ended and day to day life set in. I can't believe his parents didn't steer him in another direction! I agree with what everyone else is saying... you can see the despair in his eyes, trapped with Tori forever and ever, Amen. 

and this is what happened to Ben.

[woodscommaelle]

1 hour ago, gunderda said:

I planned a week vacation to Maine just so I could eat lobster and crab all day every day! However the last day I was kinda lobstered-out and and ready for a hamburger.  But I can't wait to go back - which is hopefully Summer of 2020. 

Lobster and crab! YESSSSSSSSSSS! 

On topic:  Poor Bobby or not poor Bobby?  He did make his bed, but....ugh...she seems to bug the absolute shit out of him.

Josie is pretty adorable.

Edited March 1, 2019 by woodscommaelle

[Evagirl]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

The majority of Bobby and Tori's relationship was long distance, and I think they did a lot of double-dating with Kelton and Josie. I don't think Bobby got a true sense of who Tori was, especially given that she was likely in "best behavior" mode during the early phases of their courtship. Throw in hormones and desperation to get laid and it's easy to see why he overlooked a lot of red flags.

BA, do you have a degree in psychology?  You say the most sensible stuff!  And don't say you have a degree from the School of Common Sense! Ha!

1 hour ago, sATL said:

and this is what happened to Ben.

I agree and I agree.

[BitterApple]

2 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

BA, do you have a degree in psychology?  You say the most sensible stuff!  And don't say you have a degree from the School of Common Sense! Ha!

I agree and I agree.

Lulz, no! I have degrees in Human Services and Criminal Justice. I think I've just been watching these people for far too long. 

[RebeccatheWriter]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

The majority of Bobby and Tori's relationship was long distance, and I think they did a lot of double-dating with Kelton and Josie. I don't think Bobby got a true sense of who Tori was, especially given that she was likely in "best behavior" mode during the early phases of their courtship. Throw in hormones and desperation to get laid and it's easy to see why he overlooked a lot of red flags.

Tori's biggest problem is she has no filter. She just says the first thing that pops into her head without considering how her words might affect another person. IMO, that is a positively HORRIBLE quality for a Pastor's wife, where sensitivity and discretion are necessary traits.

It was very much long distance until he moved into the camper. However, even then she was on her "best behavior." If you look at her behavior pre-Bobby and post-meeting Bobby, there is a huge difference. She was loud, rude, and obnoxious. She and Carlin were judgmental twits who had no filter and thought their stupidity and ignorance were adorable. 

I think during one of their ATI visits or some other conference, Tori was probably thrown into one of the training sessions about landing a man. She suddenly became quiet and almost demure. She even mimicked some of her sisters' habits (Erin and Alyssa) with the way she would cover her face and say she was embarrassed (not actually blushing) when Bobby was mentioned. After the start of their courtship, she let the mask slip at times, but she was usually quick to put it back on until she started asking for that dang ring all the time. 

You are right about her lack of a filter. For a group that preaches about keeping it sweet, she certainly missed the memo. I've heard the excuses that she is shy and doesn't like large groups, but that doesn't fit the way she was before Bobby. Instead, she (like Carlin) seems to thrive on attention. The big difference is that Carlin does that church girl gushing a lot better than her sister. Genuine or not, you know Carlin will pop out with a compliment that puts herself in the center of things. For Tori, such behavior is an afterthought. 

[Evagirl]

Did TLC show John and Alyssa's courtship like they did Erin, Zach, Michaela, etc.?  I don't remember seeing any courtship shows with them.  I  might miss a show here and there, but not several covering one courtship.  I don't even recall the wedding.

[RebeccatheWriter]

37 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

Did TLC show John and Alyssa's courtship like they did Erin, Zach, Michaela, etc.?  I don't remember seeing any courtship shows with them.  I  might miss a show here and there, but not several covering one courtship.  I don't even recall the wedding.

Alyssa, Erin, and Zach all got through their courting stage and weddings without the family having a television show. TLC did show Erin's wedding and her announcing her engagement to the Duggars on their show. Alyssa's wedding was part a story on ABC's Nightline. 

UP showed Michaela's courtship, proposal and wedding. 

[Evagirl]

14 minutes ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

Alyssa, Erin, and Zach all got through their courting stage and weddings without the family having a television show. TLC did show Erin's wedding and her announcing her engagement to the Duggars on their show. Alyssa's wedding was part a story on ABC's Nightline. 

UP showed Michaela's courtship, proposal and wedding

Thanks so much for the info.  Thought I was losing it.

[Mountainair]

Oh man! I love French Broad Chocolates! Too bad Josie and Kelton didn't stop in at any of the breweries  by the coffee shop (they passed by at least 10)! I've never been to Summit Coffee- I love my coffee but if I'm downtown I'm getting some bomb ass food and drinks- not coffee. I'm sure they were completely defrauded walking around downtown. It only takes about 5 minutes to see something completely crazy. 

It's hard to believe that is the first time they've been alone together- I just couldn't imagine a life like that. They were glad they saved their first hike for a time without "chaps". Ugh! 

Their breakfast didn't look all that great- the bacon looked weird and with so many amazing breakfast places in Asheville they should have had breakfast out at least once. 

She's pregnant now, right? 

[Sew Sumi]

Yes, she's pregnant. They've already had the gender reveal. 

And that was turkey bacon. I know the look.

[Absolom]

Ratings:  217 K viewers and a .05 rating.  136th cable show of the day.

[woodscommaelle]

52 minutes ago, Mountainair said:

Their breakfast didn't look all that great- the bacon looked weird and with so many amazing breakfast places in Asheville they should have had breakfast out at least once. 

And why was the cheese not melted?????

[Lisa418722]

I just kept shaking my head that Josie and Kelton were so excited to finally not have to have a chaperone with them constantly.  How do these people get to know each other well enough that they WANT to marry? Then I look at Bobby and Tori and realize they don't have a chance to get to know each other until after they are married. Add to that getting pregnant on your honeymoon (or right after), when do these couples have a chance to get to know each other, just the two of them?

Asheville is driving distance for me and it's one of my favorite places to go.  I'm not a major coffee drinker, but I would like to go to the place they did. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Lisa418722

[flyingdi]

Bobby's parents never seemed that happy with Tori to me.  Every time they were shown in tv they were obviously subdued.  Evan's parents seem to at least like Carlin.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, flyingdi said:

Bobby's parents never seemed that happy with Tori to me.  Every time they were shown in tv they were obviously subdued.  Evan's parents seem to at least like Carlin.

I noticed that too. At the wedding they had the looks of people who knew their son was making a huge mistake but didn't want to risk alienating him by pointing it out.

[floridamom]

The fact that these courting couples seem to be so over the constant chaperones only proves to me that they really have no choice at all; Gil would never allow any of his daughters to go out with a guy without one. Who do they think they're fooling with these 'choices' farce? Yes, perhaps they have the 'guilt choice' to choose; either listen to your father and stay in God's good graces, or by all means, do what you wish to do instead and risk going to hell......some choice.

[Summer]

Regarding the very real topic of these couples barely knowing each other before they get married, I've often wondered how uncomfortable or weird it must be to not only be alone FINALLY, but also sharing very intimate things.   And I'm not just talking about sex, but what about simple things like one likes to go to bed early, the other doesn't, etc.   Or how weird is it to change your clothes in front of your husband who you've never been alone with.  Not to mention, and sorry for TMI, but what about, ahem, bodily functions?  Do they burp and fart in front of each other, are they comfortable going Number 2 (sorry I had to go there lol!) ? Waking up with morning breath?  What if one of them is a bad kisser? 

I know it's a weird thing to ponder, but I really wonder what that first morning is like with two people who are essentially strangers.   

Edited March 3, 2019 by Summer

[Gweilo]

And not to mention, 9 months + 1 day after you get married, your still-practically-a-virtual-stranger husband is going to watch a bloody, slimy baby get pushed out of your vag.

[RebeccatheWriter]

17 hours ago, Summer said:

Regarding the very real topic of these couples barely knowing each other before they get married, I've often wondered how uncomfortable or weird it must be to not only be alone FINALLY, but also sharing very intimate things.   And I'm not just talking about sex, but what about simple things like one likes to go to bed early, the other doesn't, etc.   Or how weird is it to change your clothes in front of your husband who you've never been alone with.  Not to mention, and sorry for TMI, but what about, ahem, bodily functions?  Do they burp and fart in front of each other, are they comfortable going Number 2 (sorry I had to go there lol!) ? Waking up with morning breath?  What if one of them is a bad kisser? 

I know it's a weird thing to ponder, but I really wonder what that first morning is like with two people who are essentially strangers.   

I have the same thoughts. I suppose none of them are really used to privacy anyway. Growing up like the Bates or Duggar families means bunking in a room with several others and always having someone around you. With the Bates, there was a little separation with the children sleeping 3-4 to a room rather than 9 or 10. However, that's still a lot of dealing with people on a daily basis. I'm an only child so that would drive me insane. When I lived with someone in college and then as an adult, I have always felt the urge to hang out a while and then send them some place else. 

I did laugh at your question about burping and farting. As a personal note, I was having breakfast with my major crush back in college prior to a mock trial competition we were both competing in that morning. Nerves were high. I felt sick to my stomach at both the competition and the fact that I was sitting there with him. I was in the middle of telling him that I thought we were prepared and I burped so loudly that other people turned and looked. I am not a praying person, but I was praying that the ground would swallow me up. Fortunately, he had a good sense of humor and told me it was good I did that then and not in front of the mock court. He also waved over the waitress and ordered the same omelet that I was having, saying it must be better than his own breakfast. It was embarrassing, but he made it less so for me. I'm not sure that any of the Bates girls would survive that embarrassment while dating or getting to know a guy. These girls are still in the sneak out of bed to put makeup on after sleeping with a guy (if they did that sort of thing) even when they are walking down the aisle.

While I know they get dressed up for the cameras, I wonder if any of them are comfortable enough to put on a pair of sweats, an oversized t-shirt, ditch the bra, and watch movies or read a book on the couch with their husbands. It must be exhausting to always be on point and perfect for your man.   


 

[Summer]

LOL at your story, @RebeccatheWriter!! 

And I agree, I would imagine these girls are used to having zero privacy, so they might adjust a little better than those of us that didn't grow up with so many siblings.  

[cereality]

I have always felt bad for Brandon and Michael but I have also always wondered if they aren’t on the same page? We can all see that Michael desperately wants a child – probably many children but at this point I think she’d feel blessed to just have 1 to love and raise; and unlike Erin I think she wants kids bc of a deep love of kids, not just bc she needs to fulfill her Godly duty on earth while producing the perfect Instagram pics daily of cute kids like Erin.  Brandon – I think he likes kids a lot too and likely does want some, but IDK if he NEEDS a kid.  Seems like if he didn’t have kids, he’d be ok being Uncle Brandon to the thousands of Bates and Keilen younger inlaw/nieces/nephews and if somehow that role wasn’t enough (like say if they stay in Chicago long term and he only gets to be Uncle Brandon once every month or 2), then I could see him taking on some kid related role thru church like Sunday school for little kids.  I think he’d have a perfectly fulfilled life – waking up; saying the required sweet things to his wife; eating the breakfast she made; going off to work; coming home; saying more required sweet things; eating his wife’s dinner; drawing or reading after dinner until bedtime when he will have sex with his wife as scheduled 1x/week or 1x/month or whatever.  OTOH I can see Michael spiraling into depression if it continues like this for life and she has no child of her own.

But I will say – I think Michael took the fundie training WAY MORE TO HEART than her sisters. Erin, Alyssa, Tori, Josie and Carlin all have their men wrapped around their fingers – much like Kelly; they all get their way whether by being loud and shrill (Tori/Carlin) or weepy (Erin) or just point blank demanding (Alyssa/Josie).  I mean Erin was a 24-7 emotional mess before Carson – and likely in her own “subtle” Kelly-esque way was demanding to Chad that they would do WHATEVER IT TAKES to have babies.  Chad was dancing to Erin’s tune to make sure she was happy.  Luckily they only needed the Heparin, but I have ZERO doubt that if they needed something more like IVF, God would have laid it on Chad’s heart instantly that IVF is 100% allowed and to go for it.

OTOH – Michael plays the traditional fundie wife role where she defers to her headship. In her case, her headship doesn’t agree or disagree – he thinks kids would be nice, but if not, eh it’s ok.  He doesn’t see (or doesn’t want to see) her pain and instead tells her – in God’s time, pray harder etc. And she being fundie – unlike Erin – can’t seem to bear to put her foot down and say – if we aren’t pregnant in 6 mos, that’s it, we are going to the dr. and asking for conception to be done outside the body; that’s likely doable if they’re telling the truth and her eggs and his sperm are fine but are having trouble meeting naturally due to blockages etc.  Beyond the physical issues, I think their fertility issues may be dragging on and on bc they don’t act like a married couple, they act like they are polite strangers on a second date who can’t say directly what they want.

[cereality]

Had missed the last few episodes so caught up on a few tonight. Thoughts — 

Way to go on the wife training Kelly as yet another one of your daughters tells her husband she doesn’t know how to cook anything. They’re put on this earth to service their men and kids and you can’t make sure they walk out of your home knowing how to make 5 meals? Josie raved about how Kelton makes the best breakfasts but I have a feeling he can cook at least a handful of things. He grew up the oldest child in a single working dad home plus he went off to college where he and Bobby shared an apartment. I’m sure he and Bobby were eating a lot of hot pockets and chipotle, but I imagine they figured out how to grill an occasional steak or burger or boil some pasta; in fact we saw Bobby make steaks and green beans for clueless Tori on their honeymoon.

Interesting that when Alyssa visits and they take all the grandkids to play, Brandon and Michael come as well. Brandon seemed fine - looked like he was having a good time, taking pics of the kids, fairly animated telling Kelly about his book. Michael OTOH was cuddling someone’s infant but looking and acting like her heart was breaking. I’m no fan of Kelly but to give her credit, she DID ask how Michael was and what was new and didn’t imply that nothing could be new since she has no kids. Michael was the one who diminished her own self saying - I’m making blankets, running the online store and that’s about it. I can only imagine her self esteem right now; she probably views herself as worthless as a fundie woman who hasn’t made a baby.

Though interesting when Kelly asked Michael if they’d consider moving to Knox, Michael said the right words but her reaction said OH HELL NO. Can’t say I blame her. A daughter with no kids would likely be expected to spend all day at the house cooking for Kelly’s brood, chasing Jeb and Jud, and constantly being available to help Erin and Whit with their kids. And while I know she loves babies, I think it’s one thing to cuddle a niece for 2 days when she visits once in 3 months, but being around family babies daily could push her off the edge as she contemplates why it happened for her sisters but not her.

Chad continues to look like oldest 31 year old ever. Despite his fake laugh and agreement re how quick the project will be, he did NOT seem amused at being volunteered to build some kind of stage set for Carlin’s wedding that involves windows and chandeliers. And when Erin was gushing about how she soaks in the time she spends with Addie, Ellie, Callie bc soon they’ll be married and living in different states, normally agreeable and family minded Chad barely looked up or had any expression. He looks EXHAUSTED - which he probably is by a manual labor business and the financial stresses of a family of 5. Too bad the wife is too self absorbed to notice.

And LOL at Nathan for saying — girls want to date James Bond, they don’t want to marry him, they want to marry stable family men like Chad, John, Zach, and Trace. Nice of him to put in a plug for his bro who may be wife hunting, but LOL he thinks he and Law aren’t married bc they’re off living James Bond’s life?? I mean Law’s been trying to make it in Nashville for 5+ yrs, and while Nathan has some more skills with flying planes and helicopters — come on — having something to do all day doesn’t make you James Bond.

[Bessiesue]

7 hours ago, cereality said:

And LOL at Nathan for saying — girls want to date James Bond, they don’t want to marry him, they want to marry stable family men like Chad, John, Zach, and Trace. Nice of him to put in a plug for his bro who may be wife hunting, but LOL he thinks he and Law aren’t married bc they’re off living James Bond’s life?? I mean Law’s been trying to make it in Nashville for 5+ yrs, and while Nathan has some more skills with flying planes and helicopters — come on — having something to do all day doesn’t make you James Bond.

I love your comment about James Bond with Nathan and Lawson.  Poor Lawson, he truly believes he is the next Luke Bryan.  While I am very proud of Nathan working in the Philippines helping with the 9-1-1 systems, and medical evac helicopters, there are rural areas like Lee County in Alabama, and hurricane areas like Panama City and Mexico Beach that are desperate for rebuilding.  Why not stay in the US, and help rebuild these areas.  I know Nathan and Lawson have been to hurricane ravaged Puerto Rico on several missions shared on their Instagram accounts. I would love to see Nathan fall in love with a Filipino woman.  I am sure Kelly Jo and the sisters would die of embarrassment.  Chad's comment about a little Nathan running around, and both he and Erin laughing was really funny to my husband and I.  

I also noticed Michael's body language when Kelly Jo was talking.  I am sure she she did not care to discuss her infertility on camera either at that point.  She really does love children, and wish her and Brandon could have at least one child.  Speaking of Brandon, does anyone here know exactly what Brandon does in Chicago.  I know he is high on the Gothard chain, but I would love to know exactly what does he do.  

[65mickey]

What I noticed was Zack shoveling in the food like it was his last meal.  It would have been nice to to see more of the ornament making with just the sisters. While I am sympathetic to MIchael's desire to have a child does she want to be a mother or just want to get pregnant? With their church connections adoption should be attainable. But maybe they are looking into this and just don't want to discuss it on camera. I don't blame them for this. 

[Adeejay]

On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 2:44 PM, Summer said:

Regarding the very real topic of these couples barely knowing each other before they get married, I've often wondered how uncomfortable or weird it must be to not only be alone FINALLY, but also sharing very intimate things. 

On what was then "19 Kids and Counting", Derick made a point of saying how weird it was to go from never being alone with Jill, to suddenly sharing a bed with her.  I can't imagine.  Must be quite an adjustment.   

[RebeccatheWriter]

5 hours ago, 65mickey said:

While I am sympathetic to MIchael's desire to have a child does she want to be a mother or just want to get pregnant? With their church connections adoption should be attainable. But maybe they are looking into this and just don't want to discuss it on camera. I don't blame them for this. 

2

While Michaela's grandmother (Kelly Jo's mother) adopted, IBLP doesn't look too favorably upon it. That means that unlike other megachurches that partner with Bethany or All God's Children, IBLP churches (usually home churches) don't have those same connections. 

Again, not saying they won't adopt. I just think it would be a thing of last resort since it would require going against their totally ingrained IBLP beliefs, as well as their practically sole source of income.

At this point, Michaela would probably go for it. Brandon...not so sure there. He seems to have been drinking the Kool-Aid by the gallon and spouts all the stuff about in God's timing. 

[Bessiesue]

1 hour ago, Adeejay said:

On what was then "19 Kids and Counting", Derick made a point of saying how weird it was to go from never being alone with Jill, to suddenly sharing a bed with her.  I can't imagine.  Must be quite an adjustment.   

LOL!  My husband and I met on a blind date, saw each other off and on, dated, engaged for 6 months, and then married, all un-chaperoned.  My husband said the same thing about me after we were married.  It took him a while getting used to sharing a king with me.  With me it was getting used to someone else in the house, and that took about a year.  

I can sympathize with these couples in that situation. 

I forgot to add that Brandon mentioned his book is the an editor now.  I hope and pray the editor looks at the drawings Brandon made, and adds some corrections.  I remember a massive discussion about how some of those illustrations gave an inappropriate vibe, (which I also agreed with).  

One more thing:

The guy on the Duggar board that recently became entangled with the law (the one linked to Jana several times), is he the same one who came and painted those awful trees for Tori's wedding, and tagged along with Nathan on the overseas trips?

[floridamom]

Since the Bates parents now are of the opinion that ballroom dancing is 'classy dancing' and is ok; why have they not done so previously? Why is there not any ballroom-style dancing at these fundie weddings? It would give those bored guests something to do.

I hope Gil and Kelly are beginning to feel like fools for the way they have brought up their children. "No" to almost everything. 

[Evagirl]

15 hours ago, cereality said:

Chad continues to look like oldest 31 year old ever. Despite his fake laugh and agreement re how quick the project will be, he did NOT seem amused at being volunteered

IMO, I didn't think Chad looked tired, I thought he looked guilty.  I hope I'm wrong.  It just seems like he's been acting differently the past few THs.  He's appears more distant.  He used to look at Erin when she was talking like he could eat her up with a spoon.  Now, not only do they not touch, he doesn't even look at her except when she says something he's not on board with.  I'll watch more closely next week.  Time will tell.

[Sew Sumi]

56 minutes ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

While Michaela's grandmother (Kelly Jo's mother) adopted, IBLP doesn't look too favorably upon it. That means that unlike other megachurches that partner with Bethany or All God's Children, IBLP churches (usually home churches) don't have those same connections. 

Again, not saying they won't adopt. I just think it would be a thing of last resort since it would require going against their totally ingrained IBLP beliefs, as well as their practically sole source of income.

At this point, Michaela would probably go for it. Brandon...not so sure there. He seems to have been drinking the Kool-Aid by the gallon and spouts all the stuff about in God's timing. 

Kelly's mother isn't an IBLP follower. I think she's just mainstream Christian, if she's religious at all.

[Mountainair]

51 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Since the Bates parents now are of the opinion that ballroom dancing is 'classy dancing' and is ok; why have they not done so previously? Why is there not any ballroom-style dancing at these fundie weddings? It would give those bored guests something to do.

I hope Gil and Kelly are beginning to feel like fools for the way they have brought up their children. "No" to almost everything. 

While I'm totally down with dancing at a wedding reception I feel like most of the Bates' wedding guests are probably of the same belief system and therefore would not dance at the wedding even if the Bride and her father started with a ballroom type dance. I bet 1/3 of them would want to but would feel too guilty to do it. At least it seems like these wedding guests get fed real food so they have that to keep them from getting bored. Most of these people seem like the most boring people on Earth so I find it funny that they might even get bored in the first place!

[BitterApple]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of having an outdoor wedding to let the scenery be the backdrop? That stage set-up with the chandelier is completely ridiculous, not to mention a total waste of time and money. Just do a few simple flower arrangements and call it a day.

Michael seemed to be in a bad mood during that conversation with Kelly. I understand why she doesn't want to move back home, but there was a note in her voice when she responded "That's about it" when Kelly asked what she'd been up to. I wonder if she's reached a point where she wants to consider adoption or IVF and Brandon isn't on board. The vibe was weird. 

I loved that pitcher and glass set Whitney had in her kitchen. I wish I knew where she got it. 

Regarding Nathan and Lawson, I know the family likes to crack jokes, but I fully support their single status. There's nothing worse than marrying before you're ready or rushing into anything with the wrong person. Both men certainly seem happier than Josiah Duggar is these days.

Erin's muffins looked amazing. If anyone has a shot at making it as a Christian lifestyle guru, it's her. Cute husband, cute kids, cute house; she'd could probably do well in that realm if she were so inclined.

I have a feeling Carlin's wedding planning will be much more enjoyable than Tori's. 

[RebeccatheWriter]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

Kelly's mother isn't an IBLP follower. I think she's just mainstream Christian, if she's religious at all.

She's definitely not IBLP. I just included her because her willingness to adopt would certainly influence Michaela's feelings on the subject. They portrayed Michaela as being close to at least one of her aunts who was adopted (same age, etc.), so maybe she has positive feelings on the subject. 

[Sew Sumi]

I agree and hope that helps Michael make a more informed decision. I know she's steeped in IBLP,  but maybe her grandmother's experience with adoption is somewhere in her thought process.