Last Tango In Halifax - General Discussion

[Valny]

Reminder for those who haven't seen S3 yet.... it's back on PBS this Sunday 6/28.. Woo 'hoo!

[peeayebee]

Thanks! I moved a couple of months ago and need reminders for all the programs I had set to record on my DVR.

[dizzyd]

Why am I just discovering this show?  Is it new in US?  I fell in love with the show immediately and now need to play catch up.  The best acting from across the pond.  Btw, was that Damian Lewis?  Didn't see him listed for the show on IMDB.

[Driad]

 

How many decades ago is this show set?  If it's in the current century, Gillian and Gareth (I hope those are the correct names) could take a DNA test to find out whether they are half siblings, and then (if it is positive) decide whether to tell Alan. 

 

I watched the couple of episodes of season 1 long ago but with such a large cast I got too confused to continue.  Our PBS station did a marathon of season 2 recently, and seeing episodes close together helped me keep characters straight.

[whatsatool]

Love how Gillian is such a multitasker

[Valny]

Loved that the show is back again! (in the US)  They sure started right off the bat with some soapy dramatics with the Alan/son storyline.  I knew for sure he was Alan's kid when Alan was denying  it, acting all dodgy, quick answering in a high pitched voice when Gillian was asking him about it.  At least he told her right afterwards.

 

I forgot Caroline's ex's hubby's girlfriend was pregnant.(didn't see all of the previously clips)  That's sad about losing her baby so late in the pregnancy.

 

The actress who plays Celia is so good. I hate that character so much when she's snotty to her daughter. Thanks Alan for rolling the eyes that I could not.

I know me too! I'm glad he said something too! Like I thought we were over this already.  Guess not.

 

Did anyone see what the paper said on Caroline's son?

 Do we know how many months pregnant Kate is, I don't recall.

 

Has this been renewed for a fourth season?

[LittleIggy]

What did Gillian say/mouth when she muted her phone? It was when Caroline asked her to the wedding. All I caught was "lesbian." Good to see Rupert Graves again. I remember how sexy he was in "Maurice" and "The Madness of King George."

[DHDancer]

Gillian has obviously not learned one thing about keeping her mouth shut.  Sigh.

 

Delighted to see Rupert Graves although he's turning up in just about everything these days (Sherlock anyone).  He has the best sparkly eyes!!

 

I'm finding the soap opera story lines a bit hard to swallow:  I cannot believe TPTB are trying to convince us that these families' lives are so complicated and messy!

[shandy]

Such a great evening on PBS with their brit shows, and LTIH back BY FAR my favorite thing.

 

Less than interested in the Gary/Rupert Graves character - it just seems so parachuted in to give Jacobi an opportunity to show his acting chops, rather than play the bemused saint of the first two seasons.

 

However, completely agree about Celia - Anne Reid wears that housecoat of doom with such passive aggressive authority, and that barbed acceptance of Caroline and Kate just feels so authentic, and true - Caroline's weary backing down to her mother when the rest of  ep has her taking on the world so fearlessly. It is both heart breaking and so real, at least to me, post coming out with a non PFLAG family! The writer is then clever enough to undercut the sour with the sweet, when Alan shows he can blunt Celia's edges with a wink and a cup of tea. 

 

Gillian and Caroline have such a complicated mess of a relationship/friendship, but they play against each other so well, I was re-invested in minutes. I do miss Caroline's older boy though- Lawrence is such a little  ******.

[stormy]

Driad: Gillian told Gary right off she wouldn't get a blood test. She must have know, deep down somewhere, he was telling the truth.

I don't know if I trust him, though, with his I don't want anything line.

[attica]

What did Gillian say/mouth when she muted her phone? It was when Caroline asked her to the wedding. All I caught was "lesbian."

 

She said out loud "Congratulations" and muted "On being a lesbian." I cracked me up to see how she cracked herself up.

[Milz]

Why am I just discovering this show?  Is it new in US?  I fell in love with the show immediately and now need to play catch up.  The best acting from across the pond.  Btw, was that Damian Lewis?  Didn't see him listed for the show on IMDB.

 

This is the 3rd series. It's began showing in the US about 2 years ago. That wasn't Damian Lewis. Gary is played by Rupert Graves.

 

I'm glad PBS is airing this again!

 

Anyhow, I still think Kate is way too good for Caroline.

 

I love that Gillian and Caroline are acting more sisterly to each other. But WTF? It will be a small wedding only the immediate family--Celia, Alan, William (the son at oxford), Aunt Muriel and a few friends from university? No wonder Gillian declined the half-hearted invitation when she Rafe and Calamity are afterthoughts.

 

Gillian...WTF is she with Robbie when Robbie and dingbat are supposed to be a couple?  Gillian, Gillian, Gillian!

[peeayebee]

And I still forgot to set the DVR. Grrrrr.

[Driad]

 

 

 

Driad: Gillian told Gary right off she wouldn't get a blood test. She must have know, deep down somewhere, he was telling the truth.
I don't know if I trust him, though, with his I don't want anything line.

 

Thank you.  I thought she said *HE* (meaning her father) wouldn't get a blood test.  As for trusting Gary, in the real world I might, but from the stories we have seen so far, there will probably be more drama about this.

[dizzyd]

That wasn't Damian Lewis. Gary is played by Rupert Graves.

No, didn't mean Gary, I meant the guy in bed with Gillian (Nicola Walker) last night.  RG is one of my fav actors, I will never mistake that handsome devil for anyone else, much less a striking gingie like DL :-)  I didn't get the characters name, maybe its Dean Andrews?

Edited June 29, 2015 by dizzyd

[izabella]

Celia just gets more annoying as she goes on.  She's a real piece of work.  I don't blame Alan for being afraid to tell her about his cheating/son.  Celia isn't known for her tolerance and acceptance.

 

I still can't warm up to Gillian either.  I think she's an idiot pretty much in all her choices.  She should never in a million years have talked with Caroline before talking with her father.  And she's banging someone else's man, still.  She knows nothing of boundaries or self-respect.

[Milz]

No, didn't mean Gary, I meant the guy in bed with Gillian (Nicola Walker) last night.  RG is one of my fav actors, I will never mistake that handsome devil for anyone else, much less a striking gingie like DL :-)  I didn't get the characters name, maybe its Dean Andrews?

 Dean Andrews plays Robbie. Gillian's first boyfriend and foster/adopted brother-in-law (her husband and Robbie were  adopted), and sometime boyfriend.

[attica]

I still can't warm up to Gillian either.

 

See, I'm just the opposite. Gillian is my favorite. All she wants is to be loved, and everything consistently goes comically wrong. (Except for letting hubby die: not so comic, that.) I know it's horrible, but part of me is shipping her and Gary. Sisters and brothers raised apart have fallen in love before... It's horrible, I know. But wouldn't they make a cute couple? Nicola Walker deserves a dude as fine as Rupert Graves.

 

I shotgunned the entire first series of Happy Valley before last night's LTIH; it's interesting to see a different version of a West Yorkshire woman for Sarah Lancashire. Caroline certainly has a better hair colorist than Catherine! 

[Quilt Fairy]

And she's banging someone else's man, still.  She knows nothing of boundaries or self-respect

And yet, she's a right shit to her dad about his fling from 50 effing years ago.

[possibilities]

I love Gillian (as a character), but she's definitely a mess. I love her as a sheep farmer the best, though. Her joking about putting a ewe in the vehicle was such a great little moment, I thought, plus the business about turning the breech. She's so casual about her awesome qualities, how she manages that whole place on her own, and it's actually quite a bit like the stereotype of the bachelor farmer who gets up to no good in his relationships with humans, but is quietly managing a farm on his own, like it's nothing much to talk about.

 

 

[JudyObscure]

I love Gillian (as a character), but she's definitely a mess.

Oh gosh yes, they all are! What a great show. Gillian goes straight from a "date," with her half-brother to back in bed with her main policeman lover, with time for running a farm, working in a supermarket, and half-raising her grandchild.

I may be the only one but I love Celia in the same way, all the time. She was raised in an ordinary, middle class home at a time when homosexuality was considered an unspeakable perversion and was actually against the law. If she whole heartedly embraced the idea of her daughter being a lesbian, I would never believe that was real. She's trying, she's learning to open her mind but she's bound to go two steps forward, one step back with it.

Caroline remains magnificent. I love everything about the actress, her voice, her presence, her chin.

I can't wait to see them all at Rupert Graves big fancy house.

[dustylil]

With respect, I do not think the legal system can be held responsible for the views of Celia  holds towards the  sexual orientation of her daughter. Lesbianism was never against the law in England. Although I doubt that would influence her opinions on moral turpitude ;)

 

 I do share your regard for the actress Sarah Lancashire. I have liked her since she was Raquel Wolstenhulme on Coronation Street back in the eighties.

Edited July 1, 2015 by dustylil

[dcalley]

1994's Four Weddings and a Funeral has Nicola Walker singing.

[SusanSunflower]

I want funny, smart and strong Gillian to come back ... her calling Caroline "for advice" to  -- plot necessity -- spill her secret was let-down, pure sitcom ... the dialog and the acting continue first-rate and seeing Rupert Graves in a multi-sentence normal-charming-person role was a delight (as always).  

Was Caroline not-intending to tell or invite Gillian? Did I miss/forget something or was she uncomfortable with her social-worlds intersecting to include rusticated Gillian? I don't think Celia will make much of a fuss about the wedding with a baby on the way ... babies on board change all sorts of things. 

I hope John and Gillian don't end-up hooked up and both heading off to rehab arm and arm. I didn't feel a lot of chemistry between Gary and Gillian but that can grown and his find-my-pa "mission" and her thinking it was a dinner date was hardly conducive to "chemistry."   Oh, and it was Valentines Day ... 

Oh well, I'm glad it's back ... I was thinking it felt a bit "clunky" but I think I just forgot how boymeetsgirl-boylosesgirl etc. it always was ... Caroline certainly is Celia's daughter -- my sympathy is with Kate. 

Edited July 1, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[LittleIggy]

Judging by the previews, our Gary seems to have done well in life!

[izabella]

I don't think Celia will make much of a fuss about the wedding with a baby on the way ... babies on board change all sorts of things.

 

I think Celia will resign herself to the wedding, in a long-suffering but still disapproving kind of way.  And I don't think the baby will change anything for Celia.  She might adore the baby but she'll see it as Kate's baby and not really Caroline's, marriage or not.

[dcalley]

Did anyone see what the paper said on Caroline's son?

...

Has this been renewed for a fourth season?

Really, PBS? I know you need to be careful of crazy members of Congress threatening you, but really?! You blurred this sign?

 

 

Yes, the show is getting a fourth season.

[proserpina65]

Dear god, that plot twist was just so contrived, and seemed really out of character for the Alan we've seen so far.  I wish last season had been it, since the wedding was the perfect finale.  But I'll probably keep watching, if only to see Rupert Graves.  Can never have enough Rupert Graves on my tv screen.

[stormy]

Caroline seems overly upset about Alan's affair resulting in Gary, who must be at least 40, that he didn't know existed till now.

I can't believe Celia could hold it against Alan but since the plot wouldn't be twisted enough if she doesn't, I guess there's going to be a lot of fireworks when she finds out.

[dustylil]

Given that the husband of Celia (and the father of Caroline - who herself had a philandering husband) was an adulterer, it makes sense to me that both women would be dismayed by the affair that resulted in Gary. Particularly so, inasmuch as Alan was perceived as a paragon of husbandly virtues  by both women. Now they would be wondering if  Alan really was any better than Kenneth.  

[stormy]

Good point dustylil!

[SonofaBiscuit]

I think that Gillian is my fave too.  She's a mess, but I can't help but feel sympathetic toward her.  She is a single parent, she seemed to look after her father before Celia showed up, she runs the farm all by herself, and she has another job on top of that.  I admire her hard work.

 

Poor Gillian, thinking that she's on a Valentine's Day date when, in reality, the guy is her half-brother!  I, too, didn't understand why she didn't quietly have her DNA checked before confronting her father.  I really hope that Gary is a good guy, because I would like Gillian to have someone to talk to and confide in.  Caroline just can't be trusted, I don't think.

 

I thought it was annoying that Caroline told Gillian that Celia couldn't be the one to question Alan on whether Gary could be his son, but once the whole thing was confirmed, Caroline was all you have to tell her or I will because if she finds out that I knew and didn't tell her, she'll never forgive me.  Sorry, but Celia is a bitch.  She referred to Kate and her daughter as "the lesbians."  Her age can't excuse her hateful attitude and behavior...Alan is the same age, and he is quite accepting of Caroline and Kate's relationship.  I don't see her ever changing her views when it comes to her daughter's sexuality.  I can't wait to see how Celia is going to react to the news that Alan has a love child out there.  My guess is that she will not react well AT ALL. 

[whatsatool]

Well Celia is most odious with Gillian a close second. Caroline also has a spiteful streak.

Edited July 6, 2015 by whatsatool

[Driad]

Another confused viewer -- What happened at the supermarket and why did Gillian lose her job? Maybe it was the accents but I had no idea what was going on.

[whatsatool]

She was being called out on adultery.

[Driad]

Adultery with whom?

[Quilt Fairy]

Adultery with whom?

Gillian was sleeping with Robbie when he was still living with the blonde woman who showed up at the market. One more reason Gillian should bite her tongue before telling Alan he was unfaithful with "her mum"  one more time.

 

I know Caroline was hurt, but there really was no call to say to Alan what she did to her father.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Quilt Fairy

[Pallas]

Ah -- reading the comments from the British run, it seems we Americans again have PBS to thank for sparing our tender sensibilities.  What we saw: Cheryl comes into Greenough's and takes Gillian to task for sleeping with Robbie.  (Robbie and Cheryl had been arguing about the new kitchen Cheryl wants, and Robbie had retaliated by telling Cheryl he was sleeping with Gillian.)  

 

Cheryl advises Gillian to "try this next time" and presents her with an item in a box, which we do not see Gillian open.  What we see next, is a cut to the other Greenoughs customers, looking astounded at their own luck in having come into the grocery to pick up a couple of items, then finding that they've stumbled into a thrillingly low burlesque.  

 

Next , we see Gillian return home, stammering in fury about getting sacked, which she characterizes as  "win-win..."  And we flashback to the grocery and the customers, still swooning with glee, and then the face of the manager, summoning Gillian into this office.  

 

At some point the Chekhov's gun in the box must have been revealed to be a vibrator -- which Gillian tried to unload, but instead, fired off, round upon round.  It's at this point that she was summoned away and let go.  Is that about right?

[Anothermi]

Ah -- reading the comments from the British run, it seems we Americans again have PBS to thank for sparing our tender sensibilities.  What we saw: Cheryl comes into Greenough's and takes Gillian to task for sleeping with Robbie.  (Robbie and Cheryl had been arguing about the new kitchen Cheryl wants, and Robbie had retaliated by telling Cheryl he was sleeping with Gillian.)  

 

Cheryl advises Gillian to "try this next time" and presents her with an item in a box, which we do not see Gillian open.  What we see next, is a cut to the other Greenoughs customers, looking astounded at their own luck in having come into the grocery to pick up a couple of items, then finding that they've stumbled into a thrillingly low burlesque.  

 

Next , we see Gillian return home, stammering in fury about getting sacked, which she characterizes as  "win-win..."  And we flashback to the grocery and the customers, still swooning with glee, and then the face of the manager, summoning Gillian into this office.  

 

At some point the Chekhov's gun in the box must have been revealed to be a vibrator -- which Gillian tried to unload, but instead, fired off, round upon round.  It's at this point that she was summoned away and let go.  Is that about right?

 

Yes, you've sussed the whole thing even though you didn't see it. It was a big vibrator, went round and round on top of the stuff she was carrying and just went faster when she tried to turn it off. (or that's what I remember after lo so many months since seeing the ep). It was horrifying and funny at the same time. 

Edited July 6, 2015 by Anothermi

[possibilities]

I was so confused when I read the forum, thinking: how did I not notice the vibrator everyone is talking about? I had assumed the "gift" had been a box of condoms, but the cuts in the USA airing seem to have obscured both the humor and the basic facts. It's really weird how we are such a prude culture, at the same time as sexualizing everything.

 

If Celia was upset with Alan, that is no excuse to take it out on her daughter, and at this point, I can't think how she could be redeemed. I found her behavior so out of line as to be lacking credibility. If she boycotted the wedding because of it being two women, at least I would have believed it to be consistent. But punishing her daughter over what her husband did-- not once but apparently twice now? It's past ridiculous and into the realm of they have to write her off the show or show her perishing at the bottom of a well or something because no one wants to rescue her. I mean, it's just too much.

 

I hadn't thought of Gary being sinister. I had thought the drama would be from the fallout between Celia and Alan. But I suppose it could be both. That was one hell of a house he lived in!

 

It's hard to feel sorry for Gillian, because she was after all having an affair with a married man. On the other hand, it's also true that she's not a bad person altogether and is doing well by her grandchild and trying to do right by her son and his girlfriend and her father and really everyone else. Seeing her and Celia enjoying snarking on other people was kind of dispiriting in a way (Gillian should know better than to gossip about others in a way she doesn't like to have them gossip about her), but at the same time I also kind of liked that they wound up having a nice day instead of always being at odds. And that, I guess, is the way the world is: complex.

 

The business with Raff's gf (I forget her name) quitting school for the job at the grocery store struck me as slightly unbelievable, because wasn't she almost finished? On the other hand, that she was lured with a promise of managing the store within 2 years made me wonder if there was something going on we haven't known about yet because what? Why would she get fast tracked, in particular? It's not like no one else INCLUDING GILLIAN works there and has been working there for longer. She didn't strike me as some kind of stand-out impressive genius, and surely there are more qualified applicants who actually have finished high school, and maybe have a business degree or some relevant work experience she doesn't. So.. what the hell is going on?

 

It's especially notable that she didn't tell Raff about it til it had already happened. Yet later we see she did tell him about the scene with Gillian and Cheryl, and she seemed genuinely upset that he repeated it. So, she confides in him, and isn't necessarily looking to burn bridges with Gillian either.

 

John sticking around and Caroline not taking it seriously how it upsets Kate is just crazy. It ought to upset Caroline, too. But John going to the birthing class, and Caroline not being there? Again I say: what the hell...?

[selhars]

No. He stands for the whole confrontation scene with Gillian, as well. He said in an interview at the time of filming he couldn't go from sitting to standing so whenever he is going to sit they cut and it became funny.

 

What post is this in response to? Did I miss something?

Edited July 6, 2015 by selhars

[selhars]

he has certainly invested her whole identity in being "the woman wronged". She couldn't even find the fact that Allan was attracted to Mary because he saw Celia in her as confirmation that she, Celia, was always special to him. She reacted as though he had cheated on HER!

 

I know. That's what I thought too....I was thinking ---the attraction to the affair was she looked like YOU, Celia!

 

And I hated that Caroline turned Alan away from the wedding. Because she had JSUT SAID she was wrong for treating her dad wrong because of the mom. And here she does it again. Uh, what?

 

I too wonder if there will be a Gary 'complication'...something wrong or sinister about him. But That would be too 

american siap opera predictable" to me. British shows are better written and are smarter than that....Yes if that character stays involved in the plot lines, there may be some issues....but I'm glad this isn't "The young and the Restless" or "Dynasty." I expect more from British TV.

Edited July 6, 2015 by selhars

[SonofaBiscuit]

Celia to Caroline regarding Alan "He's no better than your father."  REALLY?!  Alan cheated on his wife (who was NOT you) one time fifty years ago.  At one point, didn't Celia confess to Alan that she almost didn't call for help one time when her husband injured himself?  You're telling me that Alan is as bad as this guy who was so awful Celia contemplated LETTING HIM DIE?  Hell no.

 

Everybody hold up!  Cancel your dinner plans, call off the wedding.  Celia's having a bad day.  There is nothing that they can do to redeem this woman.  She's a nightmare.  She's childish and petty.  She's selfish and inconsiderate.  She's just a mean, nasty person.  Alan dodged a major bullet by not getting together with her when they were teens.  He deserves SO much better, and I'm afraid that she'll end up being the death of him.

Edited July 6, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[dustylil]

Not that their conduct is to be condoned, but I do not think that the bedmate of Gillian was married. If I recall correctly, he was living with the woman who presented the do-it-yourself package to Gillian in the supermarket.

[JudyObscure]

Celia hates cheaters! All cheaters! Particularly cheaters who cheat on women with babies! No exceptions! I could almost forgive her for her treatment of Alan, if she's dead set on cutting of her nose to spite her face and losing a wonderful man who is devoted to her -- but there is absolutely no excuse for treating Caroline the way she did.

Once Caroline told Celia just how hurt she had been when her mother didn't come to her graduation and how important it was to her to have Celia at her wedding -- I actually gasped when Celia continued to sit on the couch in her robe with that stubborn expression on her face.

I can't imagine where the writing is going with this. Usually when the protagonist does something awful we can expect to hear an excusing reason the following week, but we know the "reason," already and it's not enough. In fact, I'll now be rooting against her, hoping Alan finds someone nicer. Celia can't expect to ride forever on his memory of her teenage face being "like sunshine." All he's going to see now is an old bitter mug.

I like Gary. I think it's probably the dream of every child who was "given up," (even if the father didn't know he existed) to be able to show that parent all he's accomplished and Alan was duly impressed so that's something nice in his life to offset his disappointment in Celia.

[Milz]

Years ago I used to watch The Simpsons. In one episode, Homer learns he has a half-brother: product of a one night stand Granpa Simpson had. Herb is successful, owns a automobile company and has loads of money. There's one line in the episode where Granpa Simpson says "I gave up the wrong one" upon learning how successful Herb is.

 

Anyhow, Alan googling Gary reminded me of that. I hope they don't turn Gary into a "bad guy". I want him to be the perfectly normal half-brother/step-brother to Gillian and Caroline.

 

Celia is such a cow. Sonofabiscuit summarized it perfectly: Celia's having a bad day so the whole world has to stop for her. It doesn't excuse Caroline's rudenss to Alan, but like mother like daughter.

[SonofaBiscuit]

What's REALLY frightening is that Celia is based on a real person.  The head writer of Last Tango, Sally Wainwright, based Celia on her mother, Dorothy.  Dorothy actually reconnected with her long lost love Alec (thanks to social media), and the two married.  I hope this is a very loose adaptation, because if Dorothy was actually similar to Celia in real life...wow.

[attica]

At some point the Chekhov's gun in the box must have been revealed to be a vibrator

 

Wow, I totally thought it was condoms, based on Cheryl's saying she didn't want to "catch anything". Vibrators are totally funnier, though.

I hope this is a very loose adaptation, because if Dorothy was actually similar to Celia in real life...wow.

 

I dunno. Celia/Caroline's interactions always feel incredibly close to the bone whereas Gillian/Alan's are less so. Give AR credit for going full strop with that character, though. 

[adhoc]

Looks to me like the missing "vibrator" film footage can be seen here. (You'll have to search for it in the episode.)

[JudyObscure]

Thanks, adhoc. It's at 30:00.