S03.E05: Where Is Shelly?

[Sew Sumi]

Quote

In 2006, Leah Remini attends the wedding of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes; after Leah remarks on the absence of church leader David Miscavige's wife Shelly, the question sets off a chain of events that ultimately leads to her leaving Scientology.

Airs December 18, 2018

Edited December 19, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[Guest]

I’m so excited for this episode. You know it is good when they open with a letter they got the day before the airing!

[3girlsforus]

I am just starting to watch this episode but I can’t help but think that something bad has happened to Shelley. She might not be dead but I think she’s probably physically in such a state that they can’t risk her being seen. I would think Scientology would love to make Leah look like a fool and have Shelley walk down the street like nothing has ever been wrong. Since they don’t do that there must be a reason. 

[crgirl412]

I missed the very shocking thing that DeVocht said to Leah and Mike that Leah said she had never even thought of!!  What was it??

[Lizzing]

I don't know why it didn't occur to me earlier, but these CO$ compounds would be the perfect place to set up a post-zombie apocalypse safe hold, especially the ones that house all enshrined copies of LRH doctrine.  Adding such a setting in may bring me back to The Walking Dead.

7 minutes ago, crgirl412 said:

I missed the very shocking thing that DeVocht said to Leah and Mike that Leah said she had never even thought of!!  What was it??

DeVocht said that one of the high-up dudes who used to run the SeaOrg ship knew Davie was nuts but he was waiting it out until LRH returns from the dead.  Apparently a lot of the long-timers, possibly including Shelly, think LRH is going to return to run the cult.  This had never occurred to Leah.

[crgirl412]

2 minutes ago, Lizzing said:

DeVocht said that one of the high-up dudes who used to run the SeaOrg ship knew Davie was nuts but he was waiting it out until LRH returns from the dead.  Apparently a lot of the long-timers, possibly including Shelly, think LRH is going to return to run the cult.  This had never occurred to Leah.

Thanks Lizzing!!

[Arynm]

1 hour ago, Lizzing said:

DeVocht said that one of the high-up dudes who used to run the SeaOrg ship knew Davie was nuts but he was waiting it out until LRH returns from the dead.  Apparently a lot of the long-timers, possibly including Shelly, think LRH is going to return to run the cult.  This had never occurred to Leah.

This is so fucked up! LRH is not coming back people! How many years has he been gone? 30 something years? Just crazy. I think Miscavage would love to trot Shelly out waving to the crowd that she's fine, but for whatever reason can not. So she is a liability and they can't trust her to keep her mouth shut or she's dead.

[Mardo2044]

I don't like that the episode did not discuss in more detail the police investigation and that it was closed.  I don't remember if it was on the show or if I read it on a blog somewhere, but the allegation was the two police officers named to the investigation never saw her in person.  So I am not certain how that is a missing person investigation "closed."  If the police said they saw her in person and spoke to her and she said that she was there on her own free will, well just like a domestic violence thing they can suspect otherwise and say "if you ever need help call us" but not much they can do.  But this episode does not talk about the police and kind of glosses over that they closed the case.  I don't get why their feet aren't held to the fire, it wouldn't be the first guilty husband the police can't believe.

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, Mardo2044 said:

I don't like that the episode did not discuss in more detail the police investigation and that it was closed.  allegation was the two police officers named to the investigation never saw her in person.  So I am not certain how that is a missing person investigation "closed."  If the police said they saw her in person and spoke to her and she said that she was there on her own free will, well just like a domestic violence thing they can suspect otherwise and say "if you ever need help call us" but not much they can do.  But this episode does not talk about the police and kind of glosses over that they closed the case.  I don't get why their feet aren't held to the fire, it wouldn't be the first guilty husband the police can't believe.

I remember this too but I don’t remember where it was said. I think it was in Leah’s book. This really is a tough situation for the police. Shelley is an American adult who has the right not to ever be seen. Stories about the Scientology hole or other punishments don’t negate that right so the police can’t just demand she make a public appearance. Even if they speak to her there is no guarantee she is ok. First she is going to tell them she’s ok because that’s what Scientologists do. And second, who is to say it’s Shelley anyway? Pictures of her are over a decade old. Someone like the police who don’t know her could easily be fooled by another woman who looks similar if she says she’s Shelley and Miscaivage is sitting there saying she’s his wife. It would take a court order and probable cause to complete DNA or other tests to confirm it’s her that way. 

I think it’s unlikely that she’s dead. But I also think it’s unlikely that she’s happily living with David. She’s been shipped off or locked up somewhere. The final problem if she’s locked up somewhere is that even if police find her and know she’s locked up  if she says she wants to be there, which is likely she would say, they can’t do anything about it.  Rinder said she could be being held against her will but I think it’s more likely she’s being held with no will left at all. She’s been brainwashed into complete compliance. 

[zillabreeze]

Perhaps Shelly has successfully escaped CO$ and is scared poopless of them finding her?

She would know better than anyone of the ramifications of being found.

[libgirl2]

10 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

I am just starting to watch this episode but I can’t help but think that something bad has happened to Shelley. She might not be dead but I think she’s probably physically in such a state that they can’t risk her being seen. I would think Scientology would love to make Leah look like a fool and have Shelley walk down the street like nothing has ever been wrong. Since they don’t do that there must be a reason. 

That is what my husband said.... just have her come out and make a statement, that would answer the question.

56 minutes ago, zillabreeze said:

Perhaps Shelly has successfully escaped CO$ and is scared poopless of them finding her?

She would know better than anyone of the ramifications of being found.

That is possible, but I just don't think so. I think she is kept somewhere and is in bad shape. They don't want to trot her out if she looks bad.

10 hours ago, Lizzing said:

I don't know why it didn't occur to me earlier, but these CO$ compounds would be the perfect place to set up a post-zombie apocalypse safe hold, especially the ones that house all enshrined copies of LRH doctrine.  Adding such a setting in may bring me back to The Walking Dead.

DeVocht said that one of the high-up dudes who used to run the SeaOrg ship knew Davie was nuts but he was waiting it out until LRH returns from the dead.  Apparently a lot of the long-timers, possibly including Shelly, think LRH is going to return to run the cult.  This had never occurred to Leah.

Well, they are going to be waiting a very long time for that!

[libgirl2]

Also, did anyone get a feeling that LRH was doing something sexual to those kids on that ship? I just got a creep vibe over how close he was with them. Its not normal.

[DrSparkles]

This show horrifies me more & more with each episode.

[3girlsforus]

2 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Also, did anyone get a feeling that LRH was doing something sexual to those kids on that ship? I just got a creep vibe over how close he was with them. Its not normal.

I got a super creepy vibe from it too. I’m not sure if it was sexual abuse but it was super creepy. I kind of think with all of the people now out and telling their story someone would have mentioned sexual abuse by now, even anonymously but it’s possible that’s another horrible secret of the sea org. Hubbard was so warped it’s hard to know how far he would go. Even if he wasn’t sexually abusing them, it’s super creepy to basically remove parents from a child’s life and become their parent, boss, god etc all rolled into one. His idea of adopting orphans into the sea org to keep from having issues with parents was extra creepy. 

[libgirl2]

7 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

I got a super creepy vibe from it too. I’m not sure if it was sexual abuse but it was super creepy. I kind of think with all of the people now out and telling their story someone would have mentioned sexual abuse by now, even anonymously but it’s possible that’s another horrible secret of the sea org. Hubbard was so warped it’s hard to know how far he would go. Even if he wasn’t sexually abusing them, it’s super creepy to basically remove parents from a child’s life and become their parent, boss, god etc all rolled into one. His idea of adopting orphans into the sea org to keep from having issues with parents was extra creepy. 

I would think someone would mention it too, but so far we haven't heard from a lot of people who were kids on that ship. I think last night was the first time. Maybe there is a sense of shame for those who are out of the "church"?

Yes, the orphan part was really creepy too.

[TaraS1]

One of the biggest things that has shocked me in all the different articles and books I've read, is the lack of sexual abuse allegations with regards to those young CMO girls.  I mean, I know we aren't supposed to judge a book by its cover and all that jazz, but come on....look at the guy.  The horrifying teeth alone scream pervert to me.  But of course, I hope nothing like that did happen to these kids.  They were traumatized enough just by being in Scientology and close proximity to LRH.

I wish this episode had been like three hours long because the Shelly situation is fascinating to me.  

[tobeannounced]

Have they ever said whether Miscavige took his violent temper out on any women? I just remember them saying he was physically violent with men. Who knows, maybe he went too far in a fit of rage and accidentally killed Shelly.

[libgirl2]

21 minutes ago, TaraS1 said:

One of the biggest things that has shocked me in all the different articles and books I've read, is the lack of sexual abuse allegations with regards to those young CMO girls.  I mean, I know we aren't supposed to judge a book by its cover and all that jazz, but come on....look at the guy.  The horrifying teeth alone scream pervert to me.  But of course, I hope nothing like that did happen to these kids.  They were traumatized enough just by being in Scientology and close proximity to LRH.

I wish this episode had been like three hours long because the Shelly situation is fascinating to me.  

Maybe child sexual abuse was a line he wouldn't cross, but don't they believe children are inhabited by adult "souls"? Who knows?

17 minutes ago, tobeannounced said:

Have they ever said whether Miscavige took his violent temper out on any women? I just remember them saying he was physically violent with men. Who knows, maybe he went too far in a fit of rage and accidentally killed Shelly.

I wouldn't put it past him but I do think she is alive somewhere.

[3girlsforus]

11 minutes ago, tobeannounced said:

Have they ever said whether Miscavige took his violent temper out on any women? I just remember them saying he was physically violent with men. Who knows, maybe he went too far in a fit of rage and accidentally killed Shelly.

I’m in the camp that she’s still alive but in captivity. But I also think this could have happened. Dave definitely has it in him. It would take some pretty significant cover up but Scientology has shown themselves to be good at that. 

[Pondlass1]

2 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

She’s been brainwashed into complete compliance. 

I believe this too.  She's totally brainwashed. Even if they did locate her, she's just going to babble that she's happy doesn't want to leave until LRH returns (hopefully with better teeth).

It is a bit surprising to me, a non American, how little power organizations such as the FBI and IRS have in dealings with the Co$.  The CO$ compounds are very obviously prisons.  In fact, the CO$ has a tighter grip on members than most maximum security prisons.  Why? Why so many high tech cameras and those scary barbed fences?  Wouldn't that  alone alert the interest of the FBI?  Isn't America the land of the free?

[Skycatcher]

14 hours ago, Lizzing said:

DeVocht said that one of the high-up dudes........was waiting it out until LRH returns from the dead.  Apparently a lot of the long-timers, possibly including Shelly, think LRH is going to return to run the cult. 

What a  fun idea!

So.........will he suddenly show up as an adult, maybe a "walk-in" (?)* ready to resume a leadership role? Hubbard v. II Vs. Miscavage?  The line forms to the rjght..."I'm LRH!" "NO, I'm LRH!" "WAIT, I'm the real LRH. All these other guys are imposters!"

Or as with the Dalai Lama will he be born as a baby, discovered as a child and the CO$ has to wait for 16 - 18 years for him to grow up.  Of course he would be "discovered"  in a "good" Scientologist family and be raised "in the faith" and join the Sea Org when he's 4 or 5 years old - a child prodigy, doncha know .  There's a huge potential for mucking around with some powerful mythology there. Maybe they will discover his mother was a virgin when he was born. 

Even twistier, Miscavage would have the oversight of that baby's upbringing. That unleashes all kinds of potential mayhem!

Or better yet, he's reborn into a fundamentalist devout JW family  and grows up with complete indoctrination in that cult.  Ooops!  LOL 😂

* There is, in New Age mythology, a phenomenon called a "walk-in" . This is a situation where a soul/ spirit/personality finds life too much to bear and abandons the body. The body is then inhabited by another soul/spirit/personality who is eager to experience human life. Same body, different personality.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Skycatcher

[3girlsforus]

26 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I believe this too.  She's totally brainwashed. Even if they did locate her, she's just going to babble that she's happy doesn't want to leave until LRH returns (hopefully with better teeth).

It is a bit surprising to me, a non American, how little power organizations such as the FBI and IRS have in dealings with the Co$.  The CO$ compounds are very obviously prisons.  In fact, the CO$ has a tighter grip on members than most maximum security prisons.  Why? Why so many high tech cameras and those scary barbed fences?  Wouldn't that  alone alert the interest of the FBI?  Isne't America the land of the free?

Yes it is and that’s kind of the point. If she tells the authorities she is living as she wishes then they can’t tell her the way she lives is stupid and she probably doesn’t actually want to live that way. They would have to prove her mentally incompetent to remove her from somewhere she claims to be happy. If the authorities had proof of physical violence against her they would have more to work with. But simply choosing to live in seclusion behind security isn’t against the law and they can’t compel her to prove her existence or require her to leave because outsiders feel she is brainwashed or she is wrong. She is free to do that. 

[Chaos Theory]

There are people still waiting out Jesus.  So I can see people who spent their childhood being taught that LRH was a mesonic figure  believing in his reincarnation.  We all think it’s silly but Shelly grew up with the man and he is probably more a father then her own father and more a god then any god.  And then to marry the devil....

what kind of mind fuck that must be. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[AmyA]

It is a total mind fuck. Completely circular thinking. You can't question, you can't doubt. If you do, the problem is with YOU. Miscavage is a tiny, evil man, but Hubbard was, too. It's all his words engraved in golden slabs, after all. Disconnection, the guardian's office, overboarding, sec checks, knowledge reports...all Hubbard's. This organization has never been about good, it has always been about controlling people to get their money. 

And honestly, I don't know why Miscavage is so worried about Shelly. There have been tons of high ranking scientologists who have literally escaped and told stories about the inner workings and abuse there, and no one's done shit! There have already been lawsuits, books, documentaries, movies, news reports and magazine articles documenting every single thing Leah and Mike have had on their show. Why aren't these people believed? Law enforcement doesn't think it's odd that there are guard towers with armed guards on these massive compounds? Cameras that don't all face out to prevent intruders, but all over the place to film the people inside? How about the spikes and razor wire that point inward to prevent escape? None of that strikes the police as being kind of prison like? Are there other churches that do that?

[3girlsforus]

12 minutes ago, AmyA said:

It is a total mind fuck. Completely circular thinking. You can't question, you can't doubt. If you do, the problem is with YOU. Miscavage is a tiny, evil man, but Hubbard was, too. It's all his words engraved in golden slabs, after all. Disconnection, the guardian's office, overboarding, sec checks, knowledge reports...all Hubbard's. This organization has never been about good, it has always been about controlling people to get their money. 

And honestly, I don't know why Miscavage is so worried about Shelly. There have been tons of high ranking scientologists who have literally escaped and told stories about the inner workings and abuse there, and no one's done shit! There have already been lawsuits, books, documentaries, movies, news reports and magazine articles documenting every single thing Leah and Mike have had on their show. Why aren't these people believed? Law enforcement doesn't think it's odd that there are guard towers with armed guards on these massive compounds? Cameras that don't all face out to prevent intruders, but all over the place to film the people inside? How about the spikes and razor wire that point inward to prevent escape? None of that strikes the police as being kind of prison like? Are there other churches that do that?

These people are believed but the kinds of crimes they are discussing have statue of limitations. I can’t remember if it was the show or one of the books I read that discussed how the majority of these people speaking out no longer can bring criminal cases against them. The people who are currently going through it will say they are fine and aren’t being abused. As the man said last night, the FBI talked to him about a raid and he told them he’d be happy to help but the people they find will say they are fine. That leaves law enforcement in a tough spot. 

ETA- maybe Davey is worried about Shelley because her torture is ongoing so she would have a case or she is aware of worse crimes but I think it’s more likely he’s an egomaniac who doesn’t want his wife talking badly about him. The rest of these people he can claim have no clue. That’s a tougher sell with your wife. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by 3girlsforus

[Rlb8031]

2 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

One of the biggest things that has shocked me in all the different articles and books I've read, is the lack of sexual abuse allegations with regards to those young CMO girls.  I mean, I know we aren't supposed to judge a book by its cover and all that jazz, but come on....look at the guy.  The horrifying teeth alone scream pervert to me.  But of course, I hope nothing like that did happen to these kids.  They were traumatized enough just by being in Scientology and close proximity to LRH.

I wish this episode had been like three hours long because the Shelly situation is fascinating to me.  

My impression from the reading I've done and the commentary from interviews with various people on the ship was that LRH was more of a lecherous old man to the girls in their twenties, but even that never progressed past him making them generally uncomfortable (things like them having to deliver messages to him while he was in the bathtub, or in his room partially undressed). 

As for the LRH returns, I recall there was a story of some guy who has been claiming that he is LRH reincarnated. It didn't get much traction, because I think he's a non-$cientologist who was living in his mom's basement or something. 

ETA: Found the link, here

Edited December 19, 2018 by Rlb8031
More info

[Chaos Theory]

I am not sure if it’s true or not but I heard that there were a lot of people who thought Suri Cruise was the reincarnation of LRH.  

[b2H]

All I know is, the letter at the beginning of the show is ridiculously incriminating and, as others have said here, the entire issue could be resolved with one personal appearance from Shelly.  Why such mystery, David?  Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

[LegalParrot81]

4 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Also, did anyone get a feeling that LRH was doing something sexual to those kids on that ship? I just got a creep vibe over how close he was with them. Its not normal.

I got more of LRH setting up his little band of brain washed minions.  He knew he could more easily indoctrinate children with his crazy ranting, rules and rhetoric  and they were less likely to question/challenge anything he said.  Guess what, it worked. So many of the adult minions we hear about now were introduced into the cult as children.  

[Lugal]

It was interesting to hear that the older CO$ higher-ups believe LRH will return.  If they believe that LRH will return, cast out Miscavige and put the CO$ back on the righteous path, well, they can put up with a lot for longer, just look at any Christian sufferings of martyrs.  So Shelly could be holed up at Twin Peaks enduring her torture and isolation knowing the LRH will come back some day and set her free.  Although my theory is still that Shelly is either dead or audited to the point that she's a drooling vegetable, given that she hasn't been seen in over ten years.

On 12/19/2018 at 10:09 AM, Chaos Theory said:

I am not sure if it’s true or not but I heard that there were a lot of people who thought Suri Cruise was the reincarnation of LRH.

I remember hearing that at the time and that Suri Cruise was the Moonchild (from Aleister Crowley's writings)

On 12/19/2018 at 8:11 AM, Skycatcher said:

* There is, in New Age mythology, a phenomenon called a "walk-in" . This is a situation where a soul/ spirit/personality finds life too much to bear and abandons the body. The body is then inhabited by another soul/spirit/personality who is eager to experience human life. Same body, different personality.

I've met more than a few New Age people claiming to be walk-ins.  The funny thing is they are among the more fucked up peopled I've met.  (I think the concept of a walk-in is possible, but nowhere near as common as many so-called walk-in think)

Edited December 24, 2018 by Lugal

[AmyA]

2 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

The people who are currently going through it will say they are fine and arent being abused.

You're absolutely right, of course. If the people there say they want to be there, there's nothing anyone can do about that. The point I failed to make is that all the stories and the physical appearance of their compounds in California should merit a full blown investigation. Like, shut the shit down, take all the people in for questioning and go through the books with a microscope. 

[BonnieD]

Quote

Law enforcement doesn't think it's odd that there are guard towers with armed guards on these massive compounds? Cameras that don't all face out to prevent intruders, but all over the place to film the people inside? How about the spikes and razor wire that point inward to prevent escape? None of that strikes the police as being kind of prison like? Are there other churches that do that?

I think this is well beyond anything local law enforcement can do. They can't simply raid and start arresting people. FBI may be slowly, silently building an airtight case for all we know. That's the important part--airtight case. It does no good to file charges against anyone if they can't make the charges stand up in court. Just a very very tricky situation here. 

[Maelstrom]

Mind fuck indeed...

I found the interview with the woman who served on the Apollo especially fascinating. We haven't heard much on this show of Hubbard's early years, the focus recently has been on Miscavige instead. And as AmyA said, no matter how awful Miscavige is (and he is) all this twisted shit came from Hubbard. So it was truly interesting to hear from a woman who actually spent time with him... as a teenage girl with no parental supervision... surrounded by other teenage girls... out in the middle of the ocean. Yikes.

Tom DeVocht is always worth hearing from as well. Especially the part about die-hards waiting for LRH to come back and save them from Miscavige! As fucked up as that is, it actually makes a lot of the bullshit fall into place now. Why else would any of the higher-ups stay in the face of such mental, emotional, and physical abuse? And it makes me so very grateful that I've never been involved with a cult.

There's so much speculation about Shelly at this point, who knows if we'll ever know what happened? My take is that she is either a vegetable or dead - as we've said, this could all be solved by trotting her out for a video or something, and the fact that this hasn't happened tells me that her appearing in public would damage Miscavige's whole "Shelly's fine, Leah's a crazy lying liar!" thing.

8 hours ago, Mardo2044 said:

I don't like that the episode did not discuss in more detail the police investigation and that it was closed.  I don't remember if it was on the show or if I read it on a blog somewhere, but the allegation was the two police officers named to the investigation never saw her in person.  So I am not certain how that is a missing person investigation "closed."  If the police said they saw her in person and spoke to her and she said that she was there on her own free will, well just like a domestic violence thing they can suspect otherwise and say "if you ever need help call us" but not much they can do.  But this episode does not talk about the police and kind of glosses over that they closed the case.  I don't get why their feet aren't held to the fire, it wouldn't be the first guilty husband the police can't believe.

They may not want to bring up issues of liability with the LAPD by delving more into the details of that investigation. And I recall in Leah's book she mentioned that many LAPD officers take side jobs working security for CO$ events on their days off. And I've read more than a few articles on Tony Ortega's site that more or less state the LAPD is in CO$'s back pocket. So it seems safe to assume that little Davey paid them a truckload of money to say Shelly's fine, don't call us we'll call you. Hence the investigation being closed. Heck, IIRC the LAPD had made no progress on the initial rape allegations against Danny Masterson until more victims came forward and Leah's involvement brought wider public scrutiny to the matter. So to count on an honest investigation from the CO$-owned LAPD seems rather unlikely, sadly.

[Chaos Theory]

Think of Scientology like an actual criminal organization.   How did the FBI bring them down?   There may actually be FBI inside now building a RICO case but even if they do it will probably only be against the leaders and how hard hitting it is all depends on how self sustaining Scientology actually is.   The FBI might be able to arrest David and his cronies but could David actually still run the organization from prison or did he actually set it up to shatter without him?  

Edited December 19, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[3girlsforus]

13 minutes ago, BonnieD said:

I think this is well beyond anything local law enforcement can do. They can't simply raid and start arresting people. FBI may be slowly, silently building an airtight case for all we know. That's the important part--airtight case. It does no good to file charges against anyone if they can't make the charges stand up in court. Just a very very tricky situation here. 

I agree. Just take a look at the raid on the FLDS compound in Texas. (The Witness Wore Red is a very interesting book with a lot about this raid). The FBI was dealing with children which gives them more leeway. The cult leader (Warren Jeffs) was on the run on sex abuse charges for which he eventually got a life sentence. They had testimony of escaped members. They had young pregnant girls. But they still got very little in prosecution for lots of reasons not the least of which was the mothers lying about the abuse and their kids ages etc. The abused kids parroted the lies. The FBI was raked over the coals with half truths and skewed reporting. People assumed that because the kids were nearly all returned that there really wasn’t abuse. It was really just because the law says you have 2 weeks or you have to return the kid. That’s a tough timeline with a few kids. With over 400 it’s impossible. Luckily they did get some prosecuted from it but nothing compared to what was going on there. So if in a case like that with an entire group set up specifically to marry off kids to old men they couldn’t do much, they aren’t going to get anywhere with adult victims who say they are living exactly how they want too. What they need is someone to escape from the hole, preferably with fresh injuries, and go straight to the police to file charges and to give details on who else is being abused. Maybe they have people like that now and are building a case. I hope so. 

[Fouts]

Last night they hinted that perhaps Shelly's dangerous knowledge of David relates to something only Shelly would know as his wife.  I could be wrong, but I took that as something connected to David's sexuality.  My gaydar's never been that great, but even David does ping for me a little.  

We know that the CO$ holds a strong stance against homosexuality.  We never seem to hear anything about other women in David's life, but we have heard and seen plenty about how close David is with Tom Cruise--who some people have their own theories about.  Who knows?   

[Mindthinkr]

31 minutes ago, Fouts said:

We know that the CO$ holds a strong stance against homosexuality.  We never seem to hear anything about other women in David's life, but we have heard and seen plenty about how close David is with Tom Cruise--who some people have their own theories about.  Who knows?   

There has also been plenty of speculation about John Travolta being into same sex scenarios. These Stars with status are highly protected by the CO$ because they make good ambassadors to help draw others in.

There is a reason that Katie Holmes does not want to allow Suri to go off with her father. She’s afraid that her daughter would disappear like Shelly. 

On a different note. They are talking about building a wall between the U.S. and Mexico. Perhaps they should hire Scientologists as they seem really good at policing and barriers. (Just kidding. The only involvement I’d like to see our government have with them is a thorough investigation and some really good forensic accounting.) Enough pussy footing with the LAPD. Mind boggling is that this is just what’s happening in CA. They also have large holdings in Florida.   

[kicotan]

Scientology needs a spin-off religion to fully challenge them head-on.  Shelly Miscavige could be their Martin Luther if she showed up at the Celebrity Center and nailed her list of grievances to the door.

With every episode I’m continually amazed at the direction, form and practices that Scientology has evolved into since I first ran across their storefront on State Street in Santa Barbara back in 1985.  I was shopping with my boyfriend at the time~he went in for a free E-meter test and came out with the Dianetics book, I declined because I thought it sounded like hokey self-help crap and continued, by myself, shopping.  This was well before it became recognized in the United States as a religion, with all of the federal benefits and protections that entails.

So back to my opening:

In the same spirit of the beginnings of the Protestant Anabaptist Religions, perhaps a “Martin Luther” will rise from the ranks of the Priesthood of Scientology and successfully challenge David Miscavige’s authority as the Scientology Pope by openly, publicly accusing him of misrepresenting and twisting the message of L. Ron Hubbard, The Messiah and exposing his abuses of members and the power he wields.  Unless Leah and Mike found their own church, based on anti-Scientology principles, they will continue to be labeled as hate-mongering and fostering religious persecution.

[kicotan]

If you haven’t seen South Park’s famous episode regarding Stan being recognized as the second coming of L. Ron Hubbard, it’s worth the view:

“Trapped in the closet”

"What's better than telling people a stupid story and having them believe you? Having them PAY you for it, stupid!"  ~President of Scientology

Enjoy!

[Lugal]

1 hour ago, Fouts said:

Last night they hinted that perhaps Shelly's dangerous knowledge of David relates to something only Shelly would know as his wife.  I could be wrong, but I took that as something connected to David's sexuality.  My gaydar's never been that great, but even David does ping for me a little.

I took it more as Shelly knows where all the bodies are [possibly literally] buried.  They said she was there for pretty much all of Miscavige's rages.  If he went over the line and killed someone, she would have seen it.

[3girlsforus]

I might be wrong and I do think anyone with a temper and propensity to violence like Davey has can cross that line to murder but I don’t think he’s actually killed anyone unless he actually killed Shelley. Many of the people who are now out, including Rinder, were still in and close to Davey when Shelley disappeared. If she was locked up because she literally know where the body(ies) are buried people like Rinder would have been close enough to Davey to know someone went missing. Even if they ignored it then, now that they are out they would probably remember and we would be hearing ‘where are Shelley and X’. 

I think she’s knows where the financial bodies are buried. Besides what is to me clear misuse of non-profit/tax exempt money, I think they are guilty of some major financial shenanigans. I don’t think the Feds are going to get them on the abuses and brainwashing. I think it’s going to be financial. If Shelley knows and that guy is right that she’s the type to talk, Dearest Davey could be in trouble if she gets out. I don’t think it’s just a coincidence that Leah decided to go with the ‘follow the money’ theme for this season. I suspect their conversations with lawyers have told them this is the best way to make inroads. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by 3girlsforus

[howiveaddict]

6 hours ago, Fouts said:

Last night they hinted that perhaps Shelly's dangerous knowledge of David relates to something only Shelly would know as his wife.  I could be wrong, but I took that as something connected to David's sexuality.  My gaydar's never been that great, but even David does ping for me a little.  

We know that the CO$ holds a strong stance against homosexuality.  We never seem to hear anything about other women in David's life, but we have heard and seen plenty about how close David is with Tom Cruise--who some people have their own theories about.  Who knows?   

Maybe she walked in on Tomcat blowing Miss Cabbage.

Edited December 20, 2018 by howiveaddict
messed up

[Yeah No]

This whole thing with Shelly supposedly meeting with the police is suspicious to me.  It reminds me of that case of the teenage girl (whose name is escaping me at the moment) that was abducted, then some time later brought to a party where she was at one point even around police and still didn't escape.  That's the power of mind control.   I doubt that there's anything voluntary about Shelly's lack of public appearance.  She might be afraid to admit that she's being held against her will or just unable to make a break with something that is all she's known even at great sacrifice to herself.  Being under duress of some kind is definitely not voluntary.  She also might be dead for all we know.  It's not looking like this Miscavige character would stop at anything and I could see him as an abuser if not a murderer.  There are already many stories about him abusing members physically.  That's more than enough reason to suspect him of spousal abuse and even murder.  This whole thing is making the police look really bad.  All of these possibilities should not be lost on them.  I can't believe they would just take what they're being told and say they can't do anything.  They've made much more out of much less in the past.  The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

[Pondlass1]

There's this thing that's always said - that every adult has the right to disappear if they want and the police department cannot do anything about it.  But this is different.  The woman has not been seen for, what?, ten years.  Her friends are worried about her and she's in a cult that barbs its fences and imprisons its 'parishioners'. 

Surely the FBI (or whoever, I'm not American) has a case where they have the power to intervene?  Confinement is a crime.  Is she receiving proper medical care, dental, etc.  Even if she's so completely brainwashed she cannot be helped to escape, at least allow law enforcement meet face to face with her to check her mental and physical well being.

But I do think an IRS investigation or audit will eventually be the reason for the end of CO$.  The CO$ is nothing more than an outrageously expensive book club from what I can see. Books and courses that cost hundreds of thousands. The so called church "helps" no one.  They surely do not meet the requirements for total tax exemption.  And just think what a bonus all those unpaid taxes would be to the American people. 

And I would assume new membership is way down because of this TV series. The CO$ must be dying a slow death.

I wish Davey would have the gumption to appear on this show. 

[Yeah No]

Why do I have a feeling that Scientology has damaging information on the police, the government or the FBI and that's why they've been hamstrung in pursuing any action against them?  I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of blackmail was involved.  Given that we have seen how much money Scientology spends on spying on people, going through their garbage and bugging their homes and phones, it would make perfect sense if they had "gotten the goods" on the agencies that could potentially hurt them.  That's the only explanation I can think of for why it seems like they're getting away with ruining people's lives, engaging in illegal and even criminal activity and all we hear are "crickets".

[MaggieG]

I was a little bored by the last episode, but this one had me riveted. Especially at the end when Mike went to the (CST?) compound. 

[Skycatcher]

Why is there a cross at the top of the CO$ buildings? A "religion" that worships LRH and ETs isn't the slightest bit Christian. 

 Of course, it's PR, making the bldg look like a church, as well as hoping to lure some Christians in and snag them.

 As with everything else in this cult it's very offensive.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Skycatcher

[Lugal]

According to wiki the each point on the cross represents something in the CO$.  But Hubbard claims it came from a cross he found in an old mission in Arizona.  But it seems likely he stole it from Crowley.

[libgirl2]

18 minutes ago, Lugal said:

According to wiki the each point on the cross represents something in the CO$.  But Hubbard claims it came from a cross he found in an old mission in Arizona.  But it seems likely he stole it from Crowley.

Of course he did. He loved Crowley. 

[Lugal]

42 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Of course he did. He loved Crowley.

And the best part is Crowley though LRH was a fraud.