S37.E13: Finale

[Haleth]

I was scared to death Mike was going to win.  Yay for Nick pulling it out though!  He sounds like a genuinely nice person and will use the money well.  I'm sad (Daviestated) Davie didn't get to the final 3 but if he is as popular as Jeff said, maybe he'll be back for another try.  Loved his comments at the live show right after he was voted out.  (Speaking of that, Jeff never said a word to Alison or Kara, did he?  They weren't introduced on stage after being voted out.)

Great season.  Even the "villains" (Natalie, Angelina, Mike) were mostly likable.  More ridiculous than evil.  (Was it Davie who reminded Angelina that a selfless act is selfless?  That was hilarious.)

9 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Could Nick have given Davie his immunity necklace AFTER THE VOTES WERE MADE?  (Before Jeff reads them.) 

Maybe, but perhaps he realized it wouldn't be in his best interest to keep Davie.  Mike et al did him a favor.

9 hours ago, LanceM said:

Just an observation. When Angelina doesn't get her way and she gets upset, she has been called whiny, pouty, throwing a tantrum, etc.  Nick gets blindsided tonight and gets upset and nary a word of criticism.  And this is not the first time with Nick either.

He did say they got into it back at camp after Davie was voted out (and everyone nodded).  We just didn't see it for whatever reason.  

Christian may be brilliant but he is also an idiot.  Mike's play was tranformative???  That style of play would be really boring for viewers at home.

Fire making challenge:  Wasn't it usually the case when down to a F4 that it would be 2 vs 2 stalemate and they'd have to do fire anyway?  Maybe the producers felt they should just cut to the chase to save time and an extra vote.

[MisterBluxom]

Does anyone have an opinion on the fact that only about 15% of idols are found by women?

If the production staff did something to deliberately make it more difficult for women to find the idols - more so than men, I would be sympathetic. Of course, it would be an incredible outrage.  But it seems to me that is almost impossible for TPTB can find a way to do that. So, this may be a valid issue.  Why are only 15% of the idols found by women?

More importantly, should TPTB attempt to do anything to give women an advantage somehow? To help them find a way to level the playing field?  That would seem to me to be pretty ridiculous.

I have a theory why women tend to find so many fewer idols than do men. But I'm reluctant to post it here because, I would expect that many women would soundly criticize me and accuse me of being "sexist".  The truth is that I really do fear being criticized for such thinking. It's happened before and I can tell you that it's a very unpleasant experience.  Also my theory is kind of long and involved. Definitely not the kind of thing I should do while typing at a keyboard. Probably would be best if I went away for a day or two and composed my thoughts and tried to slant them in such a way not to offend any one gender.

But I'm going to put my theory into a spoiler box and try to keep it real brief. I would ask everyone who feels they would tend to get offended by such a theory to please not open the box. It's not a very great idea anyway. Not as if you will miss out on anything important if you never read it. OK. Here goes:

 

My theory has to do with evolution and the way in which the human species has evolved. For all the time that humans have been alive, men and women have adopted different roles. Men have tended to be "hunter / gatherers" while women have tended to be "nest builders and caring for the family".

These roles have been imprinted on our psyches for many thousands of years and I'm guessing they are not behaviors that are easy to change overnight. Even if we recognize that this division of labor is out of place in the 21st century and becoming ever increasingly out of place, it's not easy to somehow change these behaviors."

Well ... that's about it in a nutshell.  Am I saying that our behaviors are governed by the collective experience of the entire species? I really don't know.  The word "governed" is definitely wrong. But "influenced" may be closer to the truth. I get the feeling that men just feel more at home going out and hunting for stuff and searching for adventures. I know this is not true for everyone. But maybe it's just going to take some time and experience before these behaviors change?  Again - I really don't know. But I thought it would be wrong to just ignore this issue and "sweep it under the rug" so to speak.

Edited December 20, 2018 by MisterBluxom

[marys1000]

8 hours ago, Nashville said:

The Orange Seat (Kara’s sweat) has always been cursed in the firemaking Challenge; nobody occupying it has ever won.

Easy - I’m part Irish.  :>

I've always wondered if breeze currents, or lack there of made a difference in the fire making challenge.  I don't hate it but I don't like it either.  

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

On Mike being transformative: Christian has said that Mike played a brilliant and quiet social game. Everyone went to Mike with information which gave Mike power. Mike was smart with how he did it as well. He and Christian would meet in the middle of the night so no one knew they were talking. We saw how that played out tonight, when push came to shove, Mike controlled the final three votes. 

That being said, Mike controlled the votes after Nick and Davie did the harder work of taking out the stronger players. Mike was a top tier floater who played under the radr perfectly but he was also Goliath strong. Remember the “We can’t be bitches” scene? In the end, Mike was able to control the Goliath’s perfectly and he totally snowed Nick. I think Nick saw Mikeand Angelna as goats so he stayed strong with them and then got every worried at the end.

 

Was it Mike or Nick who said he had a final 2 with everyone?  I'm not sure I get transformative either.  Or the votes for Mike.  When editing it would be nice to see what people are talking about it.  Those talks on the beach....maybe Mike really  managed to snow Christian but again, the ability to snow someone...I hope Christian explains more in depth. 

1 hour ago, PokerNerd said:

This has been the first season of Survivor I've watched in years. While I personally like Nick the best of the final three, I think Mike deserved the win and played the best game. He flew under the radar while the physical threats were picked off and then seemed to control all the votes in the end. Nobody ever cast a vote against him yet he only won immunity once.  I'm shocked they chose Alison to leave before him in a season where many players seemed to respect maneuvering and strategy over physical prowess. I'm happy Nick won, and in the end it's a tautology that whoever wins deserves to win because he convinced the jury he deserved to win. That said, if I were on the jury I would have begrudgingly voted for Mike.

This is a good explanation of Mike's game and I guess he did play a good game but it was so quiet and underedited its hard to see.  I'm glad Nick won, maybe just because you could "see the work" that went into it.  

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

If Angelina would own up to the fact that her behavior on the show was over the top and self-centered and end this "powerful woman who is ignored" shtick I would enjoy her more. I don't think it is hate as much as a high level of annoyance that she is so damn clueless.

All of her big moments are simply ridiculous, look at me, give me stuff moments and not strong women stuff. And she has become this ridiculous symbol for how women are screwed over when she wasn't screwed over. Her game play was poor.

I don't really understand the Angelina hate myself.  Yes the strong woman stuff seems a bit much but...I just ignore it and laugh at her antics.  

31 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

The "marine wife," card. I'm a military wife of 22 years and I'm not ready to give a whole bunch of extra points to the wives.  Yes, we have to move a lot (as do people in lots of jobs) and our spouses travel a lot (ditto) and we worry about the safety of our husbands ( just like wives of police, fireman and farmers.)   At every "dining out" there are speeches giving credit to the wives and it really gets  overblown sometimes.  While most of us look at each other and grin sheepishly, there are always a few like Angelina who visibly puff up and glow.  They are the ones who start to think they are their husbands and say things like "we got a promotion."

Thank you for that. 

 

Generally I was sad to see Davie go, I really liked him a lot and between him and Nick at the FTC would have been a very suspensful vote.  I liked Kara and wonder how she would be as a returning player.  She didn't "do" much and as a returning player she could either go to hard and screw it up or fix her game and do well.  Not sure I understood the Allison vs. Mike vote.  Every season there are votes I don't understand but usually you can explain it by people who aren't that good at the game, crazy drama, people going rogue.  Not so here.  

Anyone hear Davie's comment at his vote off to Nick?  Nick was "I'm sorry I didn't know" and Davie said "Of course you didn't".  Not sure that was a resurrance that I know you didn't flip on me or a bit of dig at how Nick kept getting taken in by Mike.   However in Nick's defense it seemed to me that Nick knew Mike's ability to switch the vote at the last minute but he also (1) needed Mike and (2) couldn't figure out a way to counteract that ability.  Hence his frustration.  

So was Alec at the reunion?  I forgot to look.  

Zeke - blech was not happy to see him

Not sure Gabby and Christian are as close as they were despite her answer. 

Did Mike look totally sick of getting hug mugged by Anglina?  

[Bryce Lynch]

10 hours ago, thejuicer said:

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[MisterBluxom]

On 12/20/2018 at 8:38 AM, marys1000 said:

So was Alec at the reunion?  I forgot to look.  

Alec was not at the reunion. But the interesting thing IMHO, was the editing employed throughout the Finale.

Whenever the jury came in, they would quickly cut away just before we were about to see Alec. So, they edited things to make it look like he was never even there. Very strange. But it shows us how easy it is for the editors to make things appear to look very different from the way they were. It gives me pause for thought.

Edited December 23, 2018 by MisterBluxom

[Haleth]

Someone mentioned in the reunion thread that Jeremy was not there either.

[SuburbanHangSuite]

14 minutes ago, MisterBluxom said:

Does anyone have an opinion on the fact that only about 15% of idols are found by women?

It seems to me that men are much more aggressive when it comes to searching for idols.  I'm sure everyone is searching in their own way but we saw Davie, Nick and Christian getting up before dawn to search, especially when they were down in numbers.  Maybe it's just human nature to only really scramble & search when your back is up against the wall?  As the numbers dwindled, we saw everyone up at the crack of dawn searching for that re-hidden idol.   And lo and behold, Angelina finds a clue.  I just refuse to believe that TPTB are rigging the idol discoveries.

[seacliffsal]

8 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Also: hypothesis and algorithm are not such strange words.

I could not believe that Christian was touting how unsure he was that the Mayor of Slamtown and a truck driver might not understand him because of his use of words such as these.  I lost quite a bit of affection towards Christian with both his final tribal council performance and this response on the reunion.  I thought he kind of interrupted Elizabeth to get the attention on himself at the FTC; she gave a very nice introductory statement but wasn't able to ask her question due to Christian taking over.  And, the thing with a PhD and other terminal degrees is that the person is an "expert" in one area-not necessarily in all of academia.  Sure, Christian is brilliant, but that does not necessarily mean that others do not understand some/much of what he is saying or that they have their own areas of expertise (and no, I'm not bittercakes, I also have a PhD...).  I think that Christian and Mike both had a bit of the 'superiority complex' and may have exposed it at various times.  As to Christian's vote for Mike's "transformative" play?  What?  What you talkin' about Willis?  I think Christian got a really good edit.  And, I really liked him for most of the season.  Oh well.

So glad that Nick won!  I agree with others that he needed to win those three immunity challenges as Mike would have arranged to have him voted out.  Mike knew that his best chance was against other Goliaths.  I also think that Nick was an underdog throughout the season (as was Davie, my other appropriate for a t.v. viewer, crush-I would much rather see him play again than Christian).  I was totally surprised (well, not really) that Angelina tried to make such a big deal about her idol finding with Nick and Mike sitting RIGHT THERE.  I wonder if they said anything about that but it was edited out.  Anyway, 100 feet?  50 feet?  I could have fallen?  I ripped my Pants?  Whatever.  I think this just solidified the jury's already formed opinion of her.  Loved Davie's explanation to her of what "self-sacrificing" actually meant.  That being said, I found her very entertaining in that Wily E. Coyote kind of way (trademark an earlier poster).

Regarding "emotion-gate" I think honest reactions are great and show us the stress and factors involved in playing Survivor.  What I get tired of are the manipulative uses of emotion.

Oh, and Natalie?  We, as viewers, understand that you showed other sides of yourself out there that we did not see.  However, if you didn't say it or do it, they couldn't show it.  Just saying.

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, thejuicer said:

Congratulations Nick! Sorry it wasn’t Davie but he was my next choice. 

Angelina is just totally lacking in self awareness. Her whole idol plan was absurd and laughable. Her final tribal council performance was pathetic and so were all the comments about her taking heat because she’s a woman. No she’s just an asshole. And before anyone comes for me my favourite Survivor players of all time are Parvati and Sandra. 

I thought Christian’s vote for Mike to win was bittercakes.  Too bad. 

I was very, happy to see Nick win.  Davie would have been great, too.

Angelina is a stupid and therefore harmless cartoon villain, like Elmer Fudd, Daffy Duck or Wile E. Coyote.  You know they will always lose in the end, so it is  pure fun watching them vainly scheme.  I think they should make Angelina a permanent cast member and have her face get covered in soot by bombs, shotguns, etc. over and over, and then look fine in the next scene.

I'm not sure Christian was bitter.  My theory is that he doesn't really understand strategy, or at least has weird ideas about it.  He was a great social player and surprisingly good at challenges.  But, when it came time for a huge strategic decision, he chose to go along with Gabby's idiotic suicide pact, which all but guaranteed they would both be on the jury next.  He also talked a lot in post game interviews about going into the game trying to create a chaotic situation, as he thought it was his only chance to win.  I think if he had just played a bit more low key, and won an immunity challenge or two, down the stretch, he could have gone to FTC and won.  

[mertensia]

15 minutes ago, MisterBluxom said:

Does anyone have an opinion on the fact that only about 15% of idols are found by women?

If the production staff did something to deliberately make it more difficult for women to find the idols - more so than men, I would be sympathetic. Of course, it would be an incredible outrage.  But it seems to me that is almost impossible for TPTB can find a way to do that. So, this may be a valid issue.  Why are only 15% of the idols found by women?

More importantly, should TPTB attempt to do anything to give women an advantage somehow? To help them find a way to level the playing field?  That would seem to me to be pretty ridiculous.

I have a theory why women tend to find so many fewer idols than do men. But I'm reluctant to post it here because, I would expect that many women would soundly criticize me and accuse me of being "sexist". Also my theory is kind of long and involved. Definitely not the kind of thing I should do while typing at a keyboard. Probably would be best if I went away for a day or two and composed my thoughts and tried to slant them in such a way not to offend any one gender.

But I'm going to put my theory into a spoiler box and try to keep it real brief. I would ask everyone who feels they would tend to get offended by such a theory to please not open the box. It's not a very great idea anyway. Not as if you will miss out on anything important if you never read it. OK. Here goes:

  Hide contents

My theory has to do with evolution and the way in which the human species has evolved. For all the time that humans have been alive, men and women have adopted different roles. Men have tended to be "hunter / gatherers" while women have tended to be "nest builders and caring for the family".

These roles have been imprinted on our psyches for many thousands of years and I'm guessing they are not behaviors that are easy to change overnight. Even if we recognize that this division of labor is out of place in the 21st century and becoming ever increasingly out of place, it's not easy to somehow change these behaviors."

Well ... that's about it in a nutshell.  Am I saying that our behaviors are governed by the collective experience of the entire species? I really don't know.  The word "governed" is definitely wrong. But "influenced" may be closer to the truth. I get the feeling that men just feel more at home going out and hunting for stuff and searching for adventures. I know this is not true for everyone. But maybe it's just going to take some time and experience before these behaviors change?  Again - I really don't know. But I thought it would be wrong to just ignore this issue and "sweep it under the rug" so to speak.

Well, women did gathering-and that food wasn't necessarily right there next to the camp-  and hunting, too. They weren't just sitting around the campfire raisin' babies. I remember in an anthropology class years ago learning that when early (male) anthropologists would go study hunter/gatherer societies if they found a woman hunting, say, a turtle, they wrote down "saw X gathering food". If they saw a man gathering mushroom, well, they wrote that Y was hunting food.

[MisterBluxom]

4 minutes ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

It seems to me that men are much more aggressive when it comes to searching for idols.  I'm sure everyone is searching in their own way but we saw Davie, Nick and Christian getting up before dawn to search, especially when they were down in numbers.  Maybe it's just human nature to only really scramble & search when your back is up against the wall?  As the numbers dwindled, we saw everyone up at the crack of dawn searching for that re-hidden idol.   And lo and behold, Angelina finds a clue.  I just refuse to believe that TPTB are rigging the idol discoveries.

Of course. I fully agree. They would have to be out of their minds for risking the entire show just to help one gender cheat. I can't imagine what anyone would even get out of doing such a thing. It would be incredibly stupid.

[Brookside]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

 

The "marine wife," card. I'm a military wife of 22 years and I'm not ready to give a whole bunch of extra points to the wives.  Yes, we have to move a lot (as do people in lots of jobs) and our spouses travel a lot (ditto) and we worry about the safety of our husbands ( just like wives of police, fireman and farmers.)   At every "dining out" there are speeches giving credit to the wives and it really gets  overblown sometimes.  While most of us look at each other and grin sheepishly, there are always a few like Angelina who visibly puff up and glow.  They are the ones who start to think they are their husbands and say things like "we got a promotion."

 

Or men who say "we are pregnant."

[mertensia]

2 minutes ago, MisterBluxom said:

Of course. I fully agree. They would have to be out of their minds for risking the entire show just to help one gender cheat. I can't imagine what anyone would even get out of doing such a thing. It would be incredibly stupid.

I dunno. It might be worth it for the comedy gold of Angelina and the Ladder and Climb from Hell. And Davie's reaction. 

[ProfCrash]

35 minutes ago, MisterBluxom said:

Does anyone have an opinion on the fact that only about 15% of idols are found by women?

If the production staff did something to deliberately make it more difficult for women to find the idols - more so than men, I would be sympathetic. Of course, it would be an incredible outrage.  But it seems to me that is almost impossible for TPTB can find a way to do that. So, this may be a valid issue.  Why are only 15% of the idols found by women?

More importantly, should TPTB attempt to do anything to give women an advantage somehow? To help them find a way to level the playing field?  That would seem to me to be pretty ridiculous.

I have a theory why women tend to find so many fewer idols than do men. But I'm reluctant to post it here because, I would expect that many women would soundly criticize me and accuse me of being "sexist".  The truth is that I really do fear being criticized for such thinking. It's happened before and I can tell you that it's a very unpleasant experience.  Also my theory is kind of long and involved. Definitely not the kind of thing I should do while typing at a keyboard. Probably would be best if I went away for a day or two and composed my thoughts and tried to slant them in such a way not to offend any one gender.

But I'm going to put my theory into a spoiler box and try to keep it real brief. I would ask everyone who feels they would tend to get offended by such a theory to please not open the box. It's not a very great idea anyway. Not as if you will miss out on anything important if you never read it. OK. Here goes:

  Hide contents

My theory has to do with evolution and the way in which the human species has evolved. For all the time that humans have been alive, men and women have adopted different roles. Men have tended to be "hunter / gatherers" while women have tended to be "nest builders and caring for the family".

These roles have been imprinted on our psyches for many thousands of years and I'm guessing they are not behaviors that are easy to change overnight. Even if we recognize that this division of labor is out of place in the 21st century and becoming ever increasingly out of place, it's not easy to somehow change these behaviors."

Well ... that's about it in a nutshell.  Am I saying that our behaviors are governed by the collective experience of the entire species? I really don't know.  The word "governed" is definitely wrong. But "influenced" may be closer to the truth. I get the feeling that men just feel more at home going out and hunting for stuff and searching for adventures. I know this is not true for everyone. But maybe it's just going to take some time and experience before these behaviors change?  Again - I really don't know. But I thought it would be wrong to just ignore this issue and "sweep it under the rug" so to speak.

Many women have said that they find that roles at camp do tend to break down based on gender lines with women doing more of the cooking, cleaning pots and the like and stuff around camp while the men tend to go out for firewood, fishing, and the like. Since they get used to the men being gone for a long time to get food and firewood, no one thinks too much about a man being away from camp. When a woman is gone from camp for a long period of time, people ask where the women are, so it is harder to go out and search. I have heard this from women over a whole bunch of seasons. I think that people started actively talking about it a few seasons back and it has become a more known thing.

I don't think it was a thing this season. We saw everyone out idol hunting. Dan was with Kara and Natalia when he found his idol. So this season it seemed to be more a matter of luck that the men came across them then anything else.

I think the lesson learned is that women need to go out and gather firewood and food from day one so that people get used to it and it is less abnormal that women are not at camp for periods of time.

[ProfCrash]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

The "marine wife," card. I'm a military wife of 22 years and I'm not ready to give a whole bunch of extra points to the wives.  Yes, we have to move a lot (as do people in lots of jobs) and our spouses travel a lot (ditto) and we worry about the safety of our husbands ( just like wives of police, fireman and farmers.)   At every "dining out" there are speeches giving credit to the wives and it really gets  overblown sometimes.  While most of us look at each other and grin sheepishly, there are always a few like Angelina who visibly puff up and glow.  They are the ones who start to think they are their husbands and say things like "we got a promotion."

Not a Military spouse but I work in an office where 95% of the folks are retired military. The vast majority, I am not going to guess the number, are on their second or third marriages and most of them will talk about how hard it was to make their marriages work with the stress and deployments and the reintegration into the family when they did come home. I work some folks whose marriages who have lasted and their spouses sound very much like you do. They don't visibly puff up or glow but they sure know how to use the system to benefit their family. I love listening to them planning vacations and how they work the discounts and benefits. It is really organized and kind of amazing.

I think that it is hard and that there are those who handle it better then others. I am not sure how often Angelina plays it up in her day to day life, I suspect that she does only because she equates self promotion as strong. In her defense,s he only mentioned it once in her strategy. Outside of that we did not hear her discussing her husband and his job all that much. Obviously she discussed her husband with the other contestants but I don't think she was obsessive about it.

[pennben]

Sophie Clark was on Rob’s podcast last season and got into this point about women and idols a bit. One thing that resonated with me was that she pointed out that historically women are often targets for the early votes. Therefore, there is a need for the women to focus on their social game early so as to not be the early target, thus a need to stay around the others. This makes them less likely to find the early idols, which in turn makes them less likely to know what to look for when later idols are put in the game. Made sense to me. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by pennben

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Eolivet said:

This pic made me tear up lol.

Not much to say really. I'm glad someone I really liked and rooted for won for the first time since Michele. And I'm pretty sure I wasn't that into most of the winners before her for either so it's doubly nice.

Mike was a laugh riot at that final reward. He was drunk (or was it high, for the spoiler people lol) and hilarious. And then he showed again what an absolute arrogant asshole he is during the F5 TC. He was astonishingly horrible there. 

Does Alison have some kind of medical condition we didn't hear about that caused her to be so freaking wobbly? I felt bad, but I was hysterically laughing.

I'm over Christian. 

I think Gabby had a lot of great points, but I knew they'd never come off well coming from her because people have such intense hate for her. Oh well, she was right.

Anyway, the best season in many years imo, even if it did fizzle out in the end like pretty much every recent season has. 

Oh also, I don't know how much longer I can take the F4 fire-making challenge and the new jury format. They're both awful.

Edited December 20, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[Eolivet]

This pic made me tear up lol.

(Me, too -- I saw it yesterday when I had no hope of a David win. They were so likable, and they strongly rival the Aitu 4 for my favorite alliance ever!)

Edited December 20, 2018 by Eolivet

[MisterBluxom]

40 minutes ago, mertensia said:

I dunno. It might be worth it for the comedy gold of Angelina and the Ladder and Climb from Hell. And Davie's reaction. 

Heh. Heh. Heh.  It would have been worth something like that to me. Maybe they could have greased the second rung from the top of the ladder and placed the idol so it was just out of her reach so that she would have to stand up on her tippy toes and then .... slip and slide and fall of the ladder and bust her ass?

I'm just joking of course. Deliberately causing someone to injure themselves is no joke and it's a serious matter. So no one would ever do that. But, I can still dream. Can't I?

[rasalas]

8 hours ago, millennium said:

I was gratified to see Angelina received all the votes she deserved.

The flash of realization on her face when she realized that she wasn't going to win as Jeff read the final votes was priceless.

[MisterBluxom]

13 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

 

(Me, too -- I saw it yesterday when I had no hope of a David win. They were so likable, and they strongly rival the Aitu 4 for my favorite alliance ever!)

 

Take comfort in the fact that these are truly good hearted people and have a good chance at having a happy life. I wish them all the very best of luck at finding that happy life.

Edited December 20, 2018 by MisterBluxom

[ProfCrash]

6 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

This pic made me tear up lol.

Not much to say really. I'm glad someone I really liked and rooted for won for the first time since Michele. And I'm pretty sure I wasn't that into most of the winners before her for either so it's doubly nice.

Mike was a laugh riot at that final reward. He was drunk (or was it high, for the spoiler people lol) and hilarious. And then he showed again what an absolute arrogant asshole he is during the F5 TC. He was astonishingly horrible there. 

Does Alison have some kind of medical condition we didn't hear about that caused her to be so freaking wobbly? I felt bad, but I was hysterically laughing.

I'm over Christian. 

I think Gabby had a lot of great points, but I knew they'd never come off well coming from her because people have such intense hate for her. Oh well, she was right.

Anyway, the best season in many years imo, even if it did fizzle out in the end like pretty much every recent season has. 

Oh also, I don't know how much longer I can take the F4 fire-making challenge and the new jury format. They're both awful.

That is a great picture. The shirt they are wearing is a cartoon penned by Ice Cream Eric, he of the stupidly passed off individual immunity idol won at a challenge.

If Allison has a medical condition then she should be able to get it checked out, she works with other doctors. I had to laugh when they returned to the reunion and she was checking her pulse. Dudette, you are sitting on a lit stage in LA, fully feed and rested. Why the hell are you checking your pulse?

I think that is part of what grates me about Gabby and Angelina. They are making totally valid points but they are clueless as to how their behavior causes that double standard. I have defended Gabby all season long but she is not the best example of strong woman, at least based on her Survivor play. I believe that Gabby is far more in control of her emotions when she is at work and I strongly suspect that she is very good at her job. She is smart and I suspect more then capable. Angelina is clearly smart, she went to Stanford and Yale and those are two schools that require a certain level of knowledge/intelligence in order to attend. But she is so self entitled. I think she would say she promotes herself and that it is ok for men to promote themselves so why shouldn't she. And she is right but what she  promoted on the show was not what she wants to promote. She over played, she lacked subtlety, her plans were all foiled, and she needed an unusual level of help in order to accomplish the few things she did.

Here is the thing, both Gabby and Angelina are young and still growing. I hope that they both are able to see how their behavior influences peoples perceptions and how they are treated. There is a well defined double standard towards men and women but that doesn't mean that it is always applied and that everyone is negatively impacted in all areas of their lives. Gabby and Angelina have some amazing skills and traits then when properly applied will make them both forces. But proper application is not demanding attention 24/7.

Take the Christian vote. Angelina told the Goliaths that she wanted to vote Christian out because he was likeable and smart. She saw him as the heart of the Davids. Dan did not want to vote for Christian because he was worried about Elizabeth, who was targeting Dan. We saw Angelina complain that the vote changed to Elizabeth because Dan wanted it and people ignored her. We did not see her go and talk to Dan and say "I get it, you are worried about Elizabeth because she is targeting you. Can we vote for her next time? We have the votes to take out Christian this time and will have the votes to take out Elizabeth next time."  And then when the target is Christian is next week, Angelina pouts and pulls out the "If a women says it she is ignored" card. No. Dan had a legit concern at the last vote that you did not take into consideration or try and address. And, unbeknownst to Angelina, Alison, Mike and Alec all had a reason to keep Christian.

To make matters worse, Angelina goes and tells Elizabeth in a clear attempt to win over votes for the final tribal and that was blown up.

Hopefully Angelina learns that she needs to learn that strong does not equal dictator and that she can grow and learn to use her skills in a way that takes her forward.

[peachmangosteen]

22 hours ago, jay741982 said:

Which Chelsea? The one I want to see again was the very sexy Chelsea from One World. 

You can get a fix of One World Chelsea on Southern Charm on Bravo!

[JudyObscure]

23 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Mike was a laugh riot at that final reward. He was drunk (or was it high, for the spoiler people lol) and hilarious. And then he showed again what an absolute arrogant asshole he is during the F5 TC. He was astonishingly horrible there. 

Yep.  I love a player with a fun attitude and lots of witty comments, but I thought he suddenly showed a very mean side with his remarks about Alison's dignity. 

Gabby is another one who I had liked all along, although her crying annoyed me.  Then she sat through the last few TC's with the most bitter, snooty expression on her face.  I couldn't guess what she was thinking until it all came out in her Angelina (read self) defense. 

Women and idols;  Maybe it's as simple as women finding it hard to go to the ladies room without another woman jumping up and saying, "I'll come too!"

[Bryce Lynch]

39 minutes ago, MisterBluxom said:

Heh. Heh. Heh.  It would have been worth something like that to me. Maybe they could have greased the second rung from the top of the ladder and placed the idol so it was just out of her reach so that she would have to stand up on her tippy toes and then .... slip and slide and fall of the ladder and bust her ass?

I'm just joking of course. Deliberately causing someone to injure themselves is no joke and it's a serious matter. So no one would ever do that. But, I can still dream. Can't I?

I wish there was a way for the producers and other players to repeatedly inflict harmless, cartoon violence on Angelina.  She is a real life, hapless cartoon villain, like Elmer Fudd or Wile E. Coyote.  

[ljenkins782]

10 hours ago, MissEwa said:

Overall I feel like this season had a mediocre beginning, a stellar middle and then petered out of steam towards the end. Nick winning was the best of a bad bunch by the finale but he's far from a favourite for me. Still, I appreciate that almost everyone played hard and the jury wasn't bitter, and there were some great moments.

The finale was... fine, but not really in keeping with the rest of the season. Lots of lights and cameras but not much action, unlike the rest of the season.

Angelina's Big Idol Moment stands as one of the more ridiculous things she's ever done, and... telling people about it? Like saying 'I want a correct idol play on my resume for the FTC' to her competitors? Who may have been sitting next to her at that FTC? Really? I know she had to tell people to make it work but it was still utterly ridiculous. I just wish Alison had pretended to be 100% fooled by that idol and then played it on Angelina as a show of solidarity, thus forcing Angelina to have to pipe up and explain her ridiculous plan. 

I am glad Nick won over Mike or Angelina. It was scary for a little while there.

I totally agree. The middle of the season got so exciting, but once most of the big threats knocked each other out, leaving floaters like Alison and Kara in the final 5, it felt like a letdown. Davie's demise was especially mundane and not befitting the game he'd played up to that point. I did love him pointing out the misspelling of his name, that would bug me too. Not sure why Nick was so eager to pipe up to take credit for the misspelling, that was odd.

Angelina getting blanked was pretty satisfying, especially after that ridiculous idol scheme. Only Angelina would blatantly state to her opponents that she wanted a tool that might help her beat them. Like, wtf was in it for them? Also, why on earth would she risk pissing off a jury member (Alison) to that degree days before the FTC? Also, I'm so mad that Nick, Alison and Kara didn't take that chance to blindside Mike, that would have been so much more interesting. I still have no idea how Alison was viewed as more of a threat than Mike, who got a decent number of votes in the end. What could Alison possibly have said at a final tribal? "Well, I didn't waste away completely from lack of reward food and I was going to make a big move at some point, but..." I'm guessing Kara regrets not taking the big swing when she had the chance, her game ended rather inauspiciously. 

I will give Angelina points for entertainment value, her losing her idol clue, then getting stuck on top of the well, then very characteristically exaggerating the height of the wall she scaled while the jury snickered was priceless. 

I didn't want him to win, but I have to give Mike some credit for a good social game. He was so rarely on the wrong side of the vote and people always seemed to go to him to talk strategy.

The jury was pretty much what I expected, no particular vitriol. I still love John, even when he was trying to be "tough" with his questions, he couldn't help being nice, lol. 

[Rachel RSL]

7 hours ago, Figster said:

It was so painfully obvious that the producer were going to make sure Nick was in the finals (last D left) come hell or high water, hence the 3 back-to-back immunity "wins."  This show is fake as fuck.

I'm gonna need a little more information about how Nick's immunity wins were fake. Was his 63 piece puzzle already fully assembled for him? Did a production assistant sneak up behind Kara and cause her to drop the ball?

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

I could not believe that Christian was touting how unsure he was that the Mayor of Slamtown and a truck driver might not understand him because of his use of words such as these. 

I don't think he meant that they wouldn't understand him or that they weren't smart enough to understand the words he used. I think his point was that he was so different from them, even right down to his manner of speaking and the vocabulary he used, while it may seem normal to the people he deals with in his every day life, he wasn't sure how well it would go over with people who are so completely different from him.  Let's be real, wrestlers and truck drivers don't usually have much in common with self-professed geeky scientists. 

[amazingracefan]

This version of Survivor always tends to be a clash of egos anyway, so to criticise someone for showing any signs of ego seems kind of superfluous.  The only point you can really make is when it becomes over the top comical and you either find it funny or too silly, as with Angelina.  Let's not pretend that people like Nick and Davie didn't have big egos.  Kara was more in the background edit but that will just make her seem pointless in the clash of 'big' personalities.

[zscore]

9 hours ago, pwdrpuff said:

I can't believe she called herself a woman of color during the final tribal.  Does she understand that means black? 

Person of color=anyone who is not white. Not a Angelina fan but she's not wrong to call herself a woman of color.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color

[ProfCrash]

Kara would have beaten Mike, Alison and Angelina hands down. I think she would have had a chance to beat Nick. She played a game similar to Mike's and I think that she had better relations with people. Mike's blow up at Alison at the six tribal was brutal and I think it bit him in the ass. We saw that side of Mike on public display a few times. I think that he was liked but he had enough moments were he was an asshole that he hurt his cause. Kara floated between groups, like Mike, but did not have those blow ups. I think she was well liked and she struck me as well spoken in her talking heads. I think she was in better shape then we give her credit for.

Mike played a good social game but he had a certain attitude that was off putting. His play reminds me of Brad Culpepper. When Mike was in the majority he was more vocal, "Let's not be bitches". When he is in the minority he can blend in fine. But once Mike was in the majority again you saw that more arrogant play come out. His eye rolling and arm waving during the idol hunt. His comments about votes and Nick when Nick was pissed were ugly. His comments to Alison at that tribal were wrong. Kara did not have those moments.

[penbrat]

Middle of the season was great.   Some really epic tribal counsels.   Slow start and really fizzled at the end, but the middle made up for that.    Nick is okay and was definitely the best choice of the final three ( I would have much rather seen a Davie/Carl/Kara final three).

Angelina was annoying and a bit of a mean girl but she never bothered me.  I just kind of laughed at her and her lack of self awareness.   (Her asking Natalie for her jacket was one of the funniest survivor moments ever).   Angelina’s making the fake idol and wanting to put on a big show at the tribal of playing her idol was just dumb and I don’t think Angelina is dumb, but she is not nearly as smart as she thinks she is either.

Gabby mildly annoyed me all season but I laughed out loud when she cried as she cast her vote.   I get she is very emotional but I still think she turned on the tears at times as part of game play.

Mike was a cartoon character and he took it too far with his sarcasm at times.  I am a sarcastic person and get his humor but sometimes he almost crossed the line into petty meanness.

Edited December 20, 2018 by penbrat

[ProfCrash]

7 minutes ago, zscore said:

Person of color=anyone who is not white. Not a Angelina fan but she's not wrong to call herself a woman of color.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color

Yup. She did mention she was Hispanic when talking to Lyrsa and was trying to form an alliance with her. She is a person of color but I doubt most people would know that looking at her, I know I forgot about it and Angelina does not strike me as a stereotypical Hispanic. I am not saying that it is right, but to say that I would be surprised to find out that Angelina has been discriminated against because of her ethnicity.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

Regarding "emotion-gate" I think honest reactions are great and show us the stress and factors involved in playing Survivor.  What I get tired of are the manipulative uses of emotion.

Gabby seems to embrace emotional breakdowns.  She wept in the voting booth and said something about being such a tough decision.  But, then she thought she would be clever by writing "Kentucky Nick" on the ballot.  

If her emotions were genuine, shouldn't her ballot have read something like Ni Angeli Mike  NICK and be soaked in tears?

[KittyMom4]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Does Alison have some kind of medical condition we didn't hear about that caused her to be so freaking wobbly? I felt bad, but I was hysterically laughing.

OMG, I thought I was the only one! Every time she had to stand on her two feet for a challenge she became a newborn giraffe!

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

This pic made me tear up lol.

Not much to say really. I'm glad someone I really liked and rooted for won for the first time since Michele. And I'm pretty sure I wasn't that into most of the winners before her for either so it's doubly nice.

Mike was a laugh riot at that final reward. He was drunk (or was it high, for the spoiler people lol) and hilarious. And then he showed again what an absolute arrogant asshole he is during the F5 TC. He was astonishingly horrible there. 

Does Alison have some kind of medical condition we didn't hear about that caused her to be so freaking wobbly? I felt bad, but I was hysterically laughing.

I'm over Christian. 

I think Gabby had a lot of great points, but I knew they'd never come off well coming from her because people have such intense hate for her. Oh well, she was right.

Anyway, the best season in many years imo, even if it did fizzle out in the end like pretty much every recent season has. 

Oh also, I don't know how much longer I can take the F4 fire-making challenge and the new jury format. They're both awful.

Combining your powers tends to work better if you don't blindside your alliance for no good reason, and then try to blindside your only remaining ally.  

[amazingracefan]

24 minutes ago, zscore said:

Person of color=anyone who is not white. Not a Angelina fan but she's not wrong to call herself a woman of color.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color

This whole 'representing' thing that both Davie and Angelina did I found annoying.  They represent themselves and that's it.

[lostmydamnmind]

12 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

 

Quote of the season for Mike right there LOL

[ProfCrash]

Just now, amazingracefan said:

This whole 'representing' thing that both Davie and Angelina did I found annoying.  They represent themselves and that's it.

I don't have a problem with it. Yes they represent themselves and that is it but the fact is that stereotypes exist and most of the stereotypes associated with African Americans and Hispanics that are in the news today are pretty ugly. I am not a minority and I don't pretend to be woke but I can see how any minority participating on a reality TV show are aware of those stereotypes and I suspect most would preferred to be seen as not falling into those stereotypes.

The reality is that many times casting casts negative stereotypes for minorities that help to uphold negative attitudes towards a specific group. I remember everyone being so surprised that Jason (totally getting the name wrong here) was a collegiate level swimmer and he was black. Why was that? Because the show had cast so many black people who fit the stereotype of non-swimmers. And here we had a black person who was a super strong swimmer.

Carl, Davie, Lyrsa and Angelina were aware of those stereotypes and wanted to not play those roles. They wanted for people with negative attitudes towards people of color to see something very different. I can understand that. I don't think any of them tried to behave in a specific manner, I think they were all just being themselves and in doing so demonstrated to a small percentage of the population that still believes in these stupid stereotypes that not all people of color fit those convenient labels.

You heard Jeremy and Natalie flat out discussing those stereotypes and how they really should be working together to prevent from falling into those stereotypes. I think it is a very real issue that is on the minds of people when they play. I think the women were clearly thinking about how women are portrayed as well. And I think the conversation is a good conversation to have.

And that conversation did not influence the out come of the game. Angelina did not receive any votes, even after Gabby specifically called out the way women are perceived in the game and Alison called out the immunity idol facts at final tribal. Both Alison and Gabby voted for the person they thought played the best game. So I see that as a win-win.

[ljenkins782]

Rewatching the show tonight (commercial free) because I missed large chunks of it apparently, but what the hell was up with Nick telling Davie he spelled his name wrong when Nick didn't even vote for him?? He voted Alison, why did he pretend he'd voted Davie? 

Also got to see Angelina's epic climb, missed that part too. How on earth did she come up with a 50-100 foot climb when she was barely off the ground? She is something else. By her measurements, she herself must be about 40 feet tall, lol.

I also rewatched the moment that I knew Angelina was making it to the end and was closer to Nick than I'd previously thought, when he won his first immunity of the night, he started to make a beeline to hug Angelina before anyone else, but got stopped along the way by other people hugging him. She was all the way down on the other end, but he was nearly sprinting to get to her. 

Quote

Quote of the season for Mike right there LOL

Lol, I laughed at that too. Mike did seem like he'd be an entertaining guy to chat with.

[Bryce Lynch]

9 minutes ago, lostmydamnmind said:

Quote of the season for Mike right there LOL

Mike finding Angelina's lost clue and spotting where the idol was hidden, with a blood alcohol content 3 times the legal limit, and a glass of wine in his hand, was the highlight of an outstanding season.   

I also loved when he hit his face on the shrub and channeled Jesse Pinkman by calling it "bitch".  

[Clare]

2 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I lost quite a bit of affection towards Christian with both his final tribal council performance and this response on the reunion. 

I suspect a little of Christian goes a long way.  He's a Rupert.  Someone that I initially enjoyed but I could see getting old fast.  He really likes the sound of his own voice.  I think he was given a favourable edit. 

[ljenkins782]

1 minute ago, Clare said:

I suspect a little of Christian goes a long way.  He's a Rupert.  Someone that I initially enjoyed but I could see getting old fast.  He really likes the sound of his own voice.  I think he was given a favourable edit. 

YES. This was my exact thought when he was sitting there in a bow tie, pontificating. I could feel my affection for him eroding to the point that I was reminded of the fact that I'd loved Rupert in Pearl Islands. I can no longer imagine it, but I was a Rupert fan at one point, and I could totally see Christian going that way if we see him again.

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

OMG I was screeeeaming at him to shut the fuck up when he went on and on and on and on before the FTC began.  Nobody wants to hear you pontificate, Probst!  We want to see the jury pontificate!  On the other hand, I really appreciated his mini-interview with Davie when Davie went out -- he seemed totally sincere about his love for Davie, and since I share that love, it made me happy.  I'm glad he got a big send-off that way, and I hope we see him again (after a few seasons go by, so he has time to think and improve his game.)

This is where my broadcast cut off and went to commercial.  I was really upset and tweeted @ Probst, the show, and my local network. No response.  

[amazingracefan]

22 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I don't have a problem with it. Yes they represent themselves and that is it but the fact is that stereotypes exist and most of the stereotypes associated with African Americans and Hispanics that are in the news today are pretty ugly. I am not a minority and I don't pretend to be woke but I can see how any minority participating on a reality TV show are aware of those stereotypes and I suspect most would preferred to be seen as not falling into those stereotypes.

The reality is that many times casting casts negative stereotypes for minorities that help to uphold negative attitudes towards a specific group. I remember everyone being so surprised that Jason (totally getting the name wrong here) was a collegiate level swimmer and he was black. Why was that? Because the show had cast so many black people who fit the stereotype of non-swimmers. And here we had a black person who was a super strong swimmer.

Carl, Davie, Lyrsa and Angelina were aware of those stereotypes and wanted to not play those roles. They wanted for people with negative attitudes towards people of color to see something very different. I can understand that. I don't think any of them tried to behave in a specific manner, I think they were all just being themselves and in doing so demonstrated to a small percentage of the population that still believes in these stupid stereotypes that not all people of color fit those convenient labels.

You heard Jeremy and Natalie flat out discussing those stereotypes and how they really should be working together to prevent from falling into those stereotypes. I think it is a very real issue that is on the minds of people when they play. I think the women were clearly thinking about how women are portrayed as well. And I think the conversation is a good conversation to have.

And that conversation did not influence the out come of the game. Angelina did not receive any votes, even after Gabby specifically called out the way women are perceived in the game and Alison called out the immunity idol facts at final tribal. Both Alison and Gabby voted for the person they thought played the best game. So I see that as a win-win.

Earlier in the season Davie said he was disappointed he hadn't lived up to the stereotype of being great at a sport like basketball when he said he was overjoyed at being able to leap well at a challenge.  Stereotypes whether looked at positively or negatively are still just stereotypes, if someone insists they represent a particular group and have to live up to a particular image that can be troublesome.  Better to say it doesn't matter what 'race' you are, race is specifically a cultural/political thing established over time by groups as we all had the same ancestor according to science anyway.

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I never watch the finales anymore so I don't know if Angelina talked about being a strong ignored woman there but I just mean I don't think she should get crap about finding the idol or about being a military spouse, and I don't think she's really especially a mean girl or entitled or whatever, just clueless, awkward, and silly. She is of course a hilarious disaster at a lot of the game and nobody, man or woman, who acted like she did (e.g. with the trying to choreograph a Big Idol Moment) would be taken seriously. 

The Big Idol moment is the thing that makes me the most annoyed.  She already had the votes to get Alison out.  The idol moment is purely for humiliation and the jury.  Mike understood that immediately, he was just so flabbergasted by her gall he didn't know how to say that.  Getting voted out is already the worst, and it probably gets worse the deeper you get into the game.  That would have already upset Alison quite a bit, and we saw her have breakdowns already.  I also don't know how to articulate why this one thing REALLY annoyed me regarding Angelina but it does.  She had to throw everything in there - planting a fake idol for Alison to find, making Alison use the fake one relieved she was safe, then the international humiliation when she wasn't, having her excited everyone would vote for Angelina, then Angelina "OuTsMaRtInG tHeM" by playing her idol and having Alison knocked out instead...... all of this when Alison already had the votes against her.  It's so moronic.  And maybe a savvier player could have outsmarted Angelina into doing something ELSE with the idol and voted her big-headed ass out.

I don't see Angelina getting a lot of "hate", though.  I see people assessing her very rationally.  Then again I don't read everything.

4 hours ago, Kenzie said:

I loved how Davy using wide eyes and raised eyebrows mocked Angelina's heroic story of how she fearlessly scaled Mount Figi (all 8' feet of it), risking life and limb and the rending of her pants in her quest for the idol.

Kenzie She COULD HAVE DIEDDDDDDDDDDDDD  ;)

Edited December 20, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[ProfCrash]

https://ew.com/creative-work/survivor/

All the interviews with the final 7 are posted here. It is the first wave but I thought I would post them.

I hope Angelina understands that her fake idol play was not seen in a positive light and that it probably hurt her. But I am not so certain that she gets that yet.

[KittyMom4]

4 hours ago, penbrat said:

Angelina was annoying and a bit of a mean girl but she never bothered me.  I just kind of laughed at her and her lack of self awareness.   (Her asking Natalie for her jacket was one of the funniest survivor moments ever).   Angelina’s making the fake idol and wanting to put on a big show at the tribal of playing her idol was just dumb and I don’t think Angelina is dumb, but she is not nearly as smart as she thinks she is either.

Not a shred of self-awareness in that girl, as my dad says, "book smart but common sense stupid". Her biggest downfall, imo, was her constant self-promotion. It was like she thought she could convince everyone that she was as great/smart/sneaky as SHE thought she was by just talking about how great/smart/sneaky she was.

 

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The Big Idol moment is the thing that makes me the most annoyed.  She already had the votes to get Alison out.  The idol moment is purely for humiliation and the jury.

She is the ultimate mean girl, she'll stab you in the back but smile at you while she tells you all the reasons she is better than you and that you shouldn't be mad at her.  I hated that she made it to the final 3, but so, so, so happy that she didn't get a single vote. Laughs on you Angelina, you were there as filler, no one saw you as a player or a competitor. The fact that Nick was willing to take you to the final 3 was all you needed to figure out what a non-entity you were on the season. Well, other than giving us a laugh at all your cartoon antics.

Edited December 20, 2018 by GoodieGirl

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, Eolivet said:

It feels strange to say it, but it's true: I weirdly, shockingly, completely believe in you

I feel bad and silly saying this because it's SUCH a worn out cliche but.......... Gabby = Yoko Ono ;) hahahahahhahahaha  (NOT that I agree that Yoko Ono broke up The Beatles!  Don't test my knowledge I have none.)

[Ellee]

@ProfCrash  Thank you.  Now off to listen!

[Ms Blue Jay]

20 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

https://ew.com/creative-work/survivor/

All the interviews with the final 7 are posted here. It is the first wave but I thought I would post them.

I hope Angelina understands that her fake idol play was not seen in a positive light and that it probably hurt her. But I am not so certain that she gets that yet.

She got zero votes, LOL.  If she doesn't get it now, she never will.  She also watched the season, I presume.  If she thinks she came off the world's great player only ignored because of her gender, well good for her.

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

Great season.  Even the "villains" (Natalie, Angelina, Mike) were mostly likable.  More ridiculous than evil.  (Was it Davie who reminded Angelina that a selfless act is selfless?  That was hilarious.)

That, and Jeff saying "100 feet?  More like 8" were breathtaking.  Also, the poster here who called it Mount Fiji.  I'll be laughing for days.

I bring this up again only to be petty but the only time we saw Alison "strategize" was so sit there crying about being The Big Bad Threat only to be approached by Kara and told what to do.  I hope Nick and Kara watch this back and feel badly for thinking Alison ever amounted to anything.

Why wasn't Alec at the reunion?

Edited December 20, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay