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S05.E12: Murder Most Foul

nodorothyparker

By nodorothyparker
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raven

raven

I actually laughed out loud at "the beast with two backs".  That was the best part of the episode.

I really, really, don't care about Heahmund.  Ugh, why is this character here, taking time away from characters I'd rather see.   Plus, overreaction much? Stab in the eye, stab, stab.

I've never been a fan of the Wessex story lines, though I appreciated Alfred having a spine with Bjorn and Ubbe and also taking it in stride that people want him dead - he's the king, of course people want him dead.

Oh, I actually like Bjorn but really??? Princess Virgin is so wooed by his Viking machismo that she jumps into bed with him??

Thumbs up to Freydis for making sure she got pregnant one way or another.  Anything to be queen I guess.

This ep was all over the place.  I'm more interested in how Lagertha feels being deposed and homeless, what about Bjorn's wanderlust.  Maybe all of our older Vikings go out not with a bang but with a whimper.

Poor Margarethe, she really didn't deserve that.

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LittleIggy

LittleIggy

Apparently nobody ever had “the talk” with Ivar (I just can’t stand his prissy voice) since he thinks a chick licking his blood is all it takes to knock her up. 🙄 The guy Freydis raped must have been like “WTF. Can’t you at least buy me a drink first?”

Since I like JRM, I don’t mind Heahmund. Wonder how he is going to explain chopping up that bishop.

The princess storyline was ridiculous. She would have had a female chaperone with her at all times. Wait, this is “Vikings.”  Sorry I brought up historical accuracy. 😏

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magdalene

magdalene

That Bishop was too dumb to live.  He basically admitted to Heahmund that he was conspiring against Alfred, giving Heahmund the perfect excuse for killing him. I am not surprised that Heahmund killed him and so brutally.  From the moment I first saw Heahmund I knew he was a savage in Bishops robes. What did Cuthbert expect when he wrote Heahmund that letter?

So it really took a dozen men to kill insane Margaret? Ivar, you are pure class all the way.

I wish we would see more of Peter Franzen's Harald, he is a first rate actor who can say so much with just his eyes. With Fimmel long gone there are not that many actors of that level of skill left on the show.

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benteen

benteen

7 hours ago, magdalene said:

 

I wish we would see more of Peter Franzen's Harald, he is a first rate actor who can say so much with just his eyes. With Fimmel long gone there are not that many actors of that level of skill left on the show.

You know, I wasn't big on the character or his brother in their first few seasons.  But last year, they gave the character an interesting storyline and Franzen really delivered.  I was amazed with how much I had grown to like the character.

What a shock, Bjorn's found another love interest.

I thought it was a good episode.  I liked the Ubbe/Alfred storyline a lot. 

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nodorothyparker

nodorothyparker

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15 hours ago, green said:

Dear Heahmund,

Just letting you know I know all about sleazy you and that Viking woman.  Best come quickly and kill me now before I ruin you.

Yer Pal, Bishop Cuthbert

This made me laugh out loud because it's almost word for word what my husband said.  Don't send a guy you know has just spent a long time off fighting with murderous heathens a note telling him I'm going to tell everybody everything to ruin you and you know I'll be here at X and X time if you feel like stopping by with that giant sword you're always lugging around.  I have absolutely no patience left with JRM from the gravelly voiced Batman school of anachronistic acting but seriously.  Although now someone is going to have to have a heck of a time getting all of the blood out of those pretty gold robes so he can get back to bishoping.  (Sure, let's say it's a word.)

I have random and mixed feelings about Freydis, who otherwise comes off as a simpering nothing of a pretty face, taking advantage of Ivar's boundless insecurity to become queen.  I mean I guess if you can convince a guy he's a god/magic/bloody foreplay makes babies, sure, go for it.  Methinks her poor involuntary sperm donor isn't long for this world if she pulls it off, but whatever.   Ivar as a character is always dangerously close to that line of being a tiresomely one-note psychopath despite Alex Hogh always going above and beyond to give it his all, so it gives him some needed shading that he's so desperately insecure to prove that he really is the biggest baddest Viking of them all when he knows they're all snickering about his limitations behind his back.  It was dumb when Margarethe was telling the brothers about him being "boneless" forever ago when they were all passing her around like a candy dish and it was dumb to the bitter end.  

We're apparently going with a badly written porn/fanfic Bjorn at Wessex plot now.  Yes, I'm a sheltered virgin princess but ooh, you big sexy pagan you.  How old is this princess supposed to be because she looks older than Alfred AND Judith who are apparently now the same age.

The Wessex storyline is never going to be half as interesting as it was when Ecbert was Magnificent Bastarding all over the place, but at least the sainted seed of Athelstan is showing that he's not a complete innocent not knowing that people are plotting against him as king or that if he's going to give sanctuary to the heathens who knocked off previous kings he's going to want to make sure he very publicly gets something from it first.   I like that he was smart enough to see the potential in splitting Ubbe off from the herd.

Still don't care about Floki and his island of misfit whiny ass Vikings.

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brisbydog

brisbydog

I used to love this show so much, but half the episode with Bishop Bad Actor whispering his lines in an attempt to sound fierce, and the other half with Cackling Ivar and it is losing me. Also thought Bjorn and Princess Virgin was stupid. I guess he will be the father of Alfred's kid the way Athelstan is the father of Alfred. Liked Ubbe and Alfred, that's about it

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Ohwell

Ohwell

I loved Heahmund going all medieval on that stupid bishop.  Heahmund is a passionate dude.

I wonder what Hvitserk will do now that Margrethe has been murdered?  

 

8 hours ago, magdalene said:

I wish we would see more of Peter Franzen's Harald, he is a first rate actor who can say so much with just his eyes. With Fimmel long gone there are not that many actors of that level of skill left on the show.

Agreed.  I'm so sorry that he killed his brother, but Harald is one of my favorite characters now.

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benteen

benteen

(edited)
Quote

 It was dumb when Margarethe was telling the brothers about him being "boneless" forever ago when they were all passing her around like a candy dish and it was dumb to the bitter end.  

THIS.  Mocking Ivar's issues has already resulted in a lot of trouble.  So let's now double down on it.  Just ask Siguard how well mocking Ivar went for him.

 

17 minutes ago, brisbydog said:

I used to love this show so much, but half the episode with Bishop Bad Actor whispering his lines in an attempt to sound fierce, and the other half with Cackling Ivar and it is losing me. Also thought Bjorn and Princess Virgin was stupid. I guess he will be the father of Alfred's kid the way Athelstan is the father of Alfred. Liked Ubbe and Alfred, that's about it

Bishop Bad Actor whispering his lines while talking to Alfred's brother who was also delivering his lines in a terrible way nearly made me laugh.  I noticed last week with Winnick and Ludwig were doing some terrible readings of their lines.  The acting is starting to fall off the rails on this show.

Edited by benteen
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Ohwell

Ohwell

I still think the actors/acting on this show are top notch.  I actually enjoy the show even more now, since I no longer have to worry about Ragnar's demise and knowing he'd be killed off.  Even though I miss him, I can relax now and enjoy the other actors and stories. 

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nodorothyparker

nodorothyparker

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7 minutes ago, benteen said:

Bishop Bad Actor whispering his lines while talking to Alfred's brother who was also delivering his lines in a terrible way nearly made me laugh.  I noticed last week with Winnick and Ludwig were doing some terrible readings of their lines. 

Aethelred near shouting all of his lines at Bishop Bad Actor (which I love, btw) whispering his was cringeworthy to the point of receiving mention in more than one review I've seen.  I've generally found Winnick and Ludwig competent enough, but Winnick is definitely suffering having to play so much off of JRM, who I'm increasingly convinced is a lot of the problem.  Although the writing there isn't helping them either.  I find Alex Hogh an incredibly strong young actor with a great presence even when I don't particularly like his character and he had trouble getting anything off Bishop Bad Actor in the earlier half season.  After Ivar took Heahmund prisoner, there were scenes where the show was clearly trying to tie back to earlier season great adversarial pairings and they just couldn't land because JRM was reading all of his lines in that same strangely intense yet lacking any inflection whisper.

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wlk68

wlk68

My eyes rolled so hard when I saw how the princess was immediately attracted to Bjorn. Add me to the list of people who thinks she would've had a chaperone with her everywhere she went. 

Glad there was very little Floki in this episode. I'm so done with that story line. I can't help think he's going to do himself in as part of some grand but misguided gesture. Or maybe he'll simply wander off into the Icelandic countryside and disappear, leaving the rest of the colony to carry on without him. 

I found it interesting that Ubbe is actually considering being baptized. 

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Hyrrokkin

Hyrrokkin

(edited)

-I like Athelred more than Alfred(unpopular opinion probably)

-I do like Peter's Franzen king Harald.He's my favorite this season as well.Harald has got a good screen presence (which I think a lot of the actors on the show currently lack)and he's a bit unpredictable, I always look forward to his scenes.I could tell he's a great actor from the episode with Elisif (spelling?).His body language and expressions changed from  a dominant powerful king to that of a timid little boy.

-I'm honestly intrigued by Freydis,what are her motivations and goals of doing what she's doing(I don't think it's just to be queen).Although I don't like Ivar that much,I don't like when women characters or in real-life lie about paternity,so felt bad for him when it happened.I hope he finds out and kills Freydis,but in the same time I wanna see more of her.It could be that she likes Ivar that much that she's doing lying to make him more confident,since he's insecure about his "problem"

-Again,I don't care about Iceland or bishop Heahmund.

-I didn't like Margrethe that much,but Ubbe's a jerk for cheating on her with Torvi,no one's admitting what he did is wrong.

-Alex hogh is also good,but the writing of the show isn't doing Ivar any good.He's a one trick pony,we need to see another side of his character again than the murdering side.

Edited by Hyrrokkin
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Lamima

Lamima

All the acting is bad...and has been bad. Except Harald and Alfred. They are decent. But even Ragnar was bad. His facial expressions were good but his speaking lines were god awful as are Lagertha's. I hate the fake forced accents...they come out soooo flat. Also, JRM is much like Andrew Lincoln with the throaty whispery grunty speaking lines. Blah. But they both are some yummy eye candy.

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Ohwell

Ohwell

(edited)

I'm becoming increasingly disappointed in Bjorn because he is even more of a horndog than Ragnar.  It's pretty low--and dangerous--of him to be sexing the king's bride-to-be.  I just don't see how Bjorn could possibly think that no one will find out or that this could end well for him and his family.  

Edited by Ohwell
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green

green

(edited)
6 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I wonder what Hvitserk will do now that Margrethe has been murdered?

It is pretty obvious to me.  He has been fluttering back and forth having major second thoughts of having chosen Ivar over Ubbe.  This will push him over the edge into his own storyline because he seemed to really love Margrethe despite her being totally insane.  That scene with him visiting her and gently assuring her that no crazy woman you are not really crazy set that up really strongly.  He will now hate Ivar but being weak he will have to stew in it for awhile before he decides if he can take on Ivar and avenge his insanely insane love of his life.

I like the Ubbe/Alfred stuff.  It is Ragnar/Athelstan Lite in the making.  Despite Bishop Bad Actor who has become untended comic relief to me at this point, I still like hanging with the Saxons far more than Kattegat these days.  And what to speak of the Floki Loses His Faith storyline.  Will he find it again in time like Athelstan before Over-The-Top Bad Guy Viking In Iceland kills him (oh the irony) or will he die a bitter old man?

How does a kid who was deeply and rightfully offended when his father had sex with Aslaauuug (forget her spelling) in front of him grow up to become Mr Lust?  And why does he just look at the woman in question and they all melt before him?  He has bizarro, matted hair, ugly tattoos all over him, a very straggly looking and graying beard and must stink worse than a Saxon even. Yet all these woman are all "Oh Mr Ironside, you are the hotty savage of my dreams."  BTW what is Princess I Used To Be A Virgin Pre-Bjorn's name.  Didn't catch it.

Also how do all the Vikings in Wessex have their own quarters and hang around doing nothing in the market all day?  They didn't stop to loot and pillage on their way to Wessex and they certainly didn't stop to nab any treasure left in Kattegat.  Speaking of which neither Ivar nor Harold commented on the fact that there was a couple of dead guards and one of their large longboats gone a-missing which means their scouts may be looking in all the wrong places for Lagertha and Company now.

I did like when Ivar asked Harold why the hell was he sitting around in Kattegat freeloading on his hospitality and food etc when he had his own kingdom to go back to.  Harold should have replied "Because it was in the script Hirst gave me."

Also a shout out to nodorothyparker.  Love your posts and as always you nailed it on all your points.

Edited by green
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Ohwell

Ohwell

17 minutes ago, green said:

It is pretty obvious to me.  He has been fluttering back and forth having major second thoughts of having chosen Ivar over Ubbe.  This will push him over the edge into his own storyline because he seemed to really love Margrethe despite her being totally insane.  That scene with him visiting her and gently assuring her that no crazy woman you are not really crazy set that up really strongly.  He will now hate Ivar but being weak he will have to stew in it for awhile before he decides if he can take on Ivar and avenge his insanely insane love of his life.

Yes, it's pretty obvious that he wants to do something, but what I was wondering was what exactly he will do--or at least try to.  Whatever it is, I'm guessing it won't go well.

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raven

raven

2 hours ago, benteen said:

The Alfred actor looks like he's wearing a Burger King crown.

LOL! I meant to mention this, there was one scene where it looked it really bad.

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

I'm becoming increasingly disappointed in Bjorn because he is even more of a horndog than Ragnar.  It's pretty low--and dangerous--of him to be sexing the king's bride-to-be.  I just don't see how Bjorn could possibly think that no one will find out or that this could end well for him and his family.  

It would be worse for Princess Used-to-be-Virgin I think.  She's not queen material now.  I wonder if the only woman Bjorn really loved was his first wife, the one who got the scar on her face and left (I don't remember what happened to her).    I think Bjorn, like Ragnar, will never be satisfied with anything in life.

7 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I find Alex Hogh an incredibly strong young actor with a great presence even when I don't particularly like his character and he had trouble getting anything off Bishop Bad Actor in the earlier half season. 

I agree - I find Ivar pretty interesting and like you say, Alex Hogh is doing a good job.  I'm afraid they're going to go even more crazy with him though.  I would like some Ivar/Alfred scenes, but I don't think we're going to get those.    I wish Bishop Bad Actor would whisper on out of here.

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magdalene

magdalene

I used to love Bjorn.  He and his endless female conquests have become a joke. And I call bullshit on the notion that an Anglo-Saxon princess  would just give away her virginity like that back then.  Her virginity would have been a precious possession.

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nodorothyparker

nodorothyparker

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I  don't even care all that much that Bjorn is now being written as somewhere on the sliding scale between serial monogamist and man whore of the Dark Ages.  I mean, hey, a pagan's gotta pagan, right?  It's that it's so badly underwritten that as this week's Forbes review says, we've completely dispensed with anything that explains any of this for him or any of the women involved for "the look:"

Quote

That is Bjorn's "I'm going to seduce that woman" look. And boy, let me tell you, when he gives a woman that look they are going to sleep together five seconds later.

5c09c13f50c67_Bjorncomehither.thumb.jpg.e4d6aeaec5775316b26939d0dc8d6df4.jpg

 

I mean, I guess we could argue that he's unhappy that he's been completely displaced and mostly at the mercy of people they were fairly recently mortal enemies of, or that he's bored hanging around the court and wanting something to do whether it be to go claim their farmland or go back out raiding again.  But that's all conjecture because the show is giving us nothing to go on.

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Hyrrokkin

Hyrrokkin

(edited)

There was a notoriously  bad scene in the first half of the scene,when Torvi,Lagretha,and Astrid are sitting around a table.The line reading sounded like they're practicing rather than it being a real scene.I noticed Katherine Winnick almost always says every line (started from s3 or s4) in an exaggerated tone.

Edited by Hyrrokkin
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LiveenLetLive

LiveenLetLive

10 hours ago, wlk68 said:

My eyes rolled so hard when I saw how the princess was immediately attracted to Bjorn.

LOL, so the supposedly civilized young princess gets an eyeful of what is essentially a hairy ape and goes all moist at the prospect? Oh Jesus, The show worked that angle with Rollo and that French wench and that worked because..well because Clive Standen---huba huba, LOL,

There really is no reason physically for Ivar to be impotent is there? paraplegics and quadriplegics have reflex erections, and Ivar simply has a deformity of his legs, so are they saying his impotence is psychological? Did the real Ivar have progeny I wonder? I hate this story line frankly.

3 hours ago, magdalene said:

Her virginity would have been a precious possession.

yes and not even HER possession to dispense with, it would be a bargaining chip for her father.

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green

green

Thanks for the Forbes review link btw.  Good points there.  And it gave me Princess Not-A-Virgin-Now's name too.  Elsewith.  Princess Elsewith.  Else+With.  Maybe I can remember it now.  Or not.

The show lost it's way when they killed off Athelstan.  There was no contrast left between the good and the cruel or crazy or whatever anymore.  Ragner without Athelstan's balancing him was written as going down the drain into drug addiction and self-absorption.  Bjorn went from a young man protecting his mother and dreaming of voyages of discovery to humping any woman he cared to give "the look" to.  Lagertha and Judith and Torvi never aged.  Helga went crazy.  Floki went from an eccentric free spirit and sometimes scary fundamentalist to ... well I don't even know what to call him now. 

The only characters that really interest me now are Alfred, Ubbe and Torvi.  They are the only ones that seem complex enough to be part of a real history.

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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

I might not be the most knowledgable when it comes to religion, but I'm not sure doing the sign of the cross is going to be enough to earn God's favor after you just murder a cardinal in the middle of a freaking church, Heahmund.  Or maybe it does work.  I guess you know more about it than I do!  But, really, that guy was an idiot to write the letter in the first place.  Did he really think Heahmund wouldn't silence him?  Is he the only person on this show who couldn't see that the guy was always a few fries short of a Happy Meal?

Yeah, this stuff with Alfred's future queen and Bjorn was incredibly shallow and felt more like a cheap romantic fantasy, instead of actual drama.  Bjorn's ability to somehow attract every woman in the vicinity is head-scratching.  Maybe Judith will be next!

I did like that Alfred realized that Bjorn is likely a lost cause, and is now trying to get Ubbe on his side.  The guy's smart, I'll give him that.

So, Floki's just crying and being over-dramatic beside a waterfall, while everyone else on the island suffers.  This has not been the dream anyone was hoping for!

Oh, Freydis!  I'd be very careful, if I were you.  Ivar is the last person I would try to pull something over on.

RIP, Margrethe.

I'm definitely on the "Season needs more Harald" boat, which is something I didn't predict when he first showed up. 

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Hyrrokkin

Hyrrokkin

(edited)
11 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

 

I'm definitely on the "Season needs more Harald" boat, which is something I didn't predict when he first showed up. 

I thought his first scene playing chess with Ubbe and taking Ragnar's place on the throne was pretty good.This actually reminds me of how different is adult Ubbe than pre-teen Ubbe,who seemed more ambitious and looking forward to being king.

Edited by Hyrrokkin
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TaurusRose

TaurusRose

On 12/5/2018 at 10:43 PM, raven said:

I actually laughed out loud at "the beast with two backs".  That was the best part of the episode.

I really, really, don't care about Heahmund.  Ugh, why is this character here, taking time away from characters I'd rather see.   Plus, overreaction much? Stab in the eye, stab, stab.

I've never been a fan of the Wessex story lines, though I appreciated Alfred having a spine with Bjorn and Ubbe and also taking it in stride that people want him dead - he's the king, of course people want him dead.

Oh, I actually like Bjorn but really??? Princess Virgin is so wooed by his Viking machismo that she jumps into bed with him??

Thumbs up to Freydis for making sure she got pregnant one way or another.  Anything to be queen I guess.

This ep was all over the place.  I'm more interested in how Lagertha feels being deposed and homeless, what about Bjorn's wanderlust.  Maybe all of our older Vikings go out not with a bang but with a whimper.

Poor Margarethe, she really didn't deserve that.

That’s how I feel about Judith. Why is she  still around? All she does is pet Alfred as if she’d like to shag him and smirk. She has no lines or purpose. Why isn’t she dead? But back to Heahmund’s nemesis, he got what he deserved just like Margarethe.

I can certainly see Alfred’s virgin bride to be being drawn to Bjorn. Alfred is a bloodless, wimpy mama’s boy. The crown he wears looks too heavy; I’m surprised his scrawny neck can support the weight.

Freydis better hope her lie never comes to light; Ivar will rip out her guts if he finds out.

I no longer care about Lagertha. I’m tired of the trials of Loki and the people who followed him. Honestly, I’m not sure why I am still watching.

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Hyrrokkin

Hyrrokkin

4 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Wonder what happened to Queen Kwenthrith’s son Magnus? I miss her, too.

In the credits from the next episode and onwards, there's Dean Ridge as Magnus.I never cared for Magnus,but I admit his sudden return is exciting.

Mag.PNG

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wlk68

wlk68

3 hours ago, StrictTime said:

This show has devolved into a soap opera. Seriously. And not enough beautiful scenery or costuming to redeem all that manufactured drama.

I kind of always thought it was a soap opera …. with delusions of being a historical drama. 

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CarpeFelis

CarpeFelis

On 12/6/2018 at 1:25 PM, Ohwell said:

I'm becoming increasingly disappointed in Bjorn because he is even more of a horndog than Ragnar.  It's pretty low--and dangerous--of him to be sexing the king's bride-to-be.  I just don't see how Bjorn could possibly think that no one will find out or that this could end well for him and his family.  

I don't think he cares who finds out. He was so ticked off at Alfred over the land that I suspect he seduced her just to get even.

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Captanne

Captanne

(edited)

I enjoyed the episode more than most of them this season (5a and b) -- and actually liked the Hea-chchch-mund scenes.  For once I saw why he is a feared "warrior bishop".  He actually made me imagine a chessboard during the murder scene.  I could see him swooping in on the diagonal.  That was cool.  I'm not sure we've seen anything quite like it since he showed up in that one second boning a random girl at the end of series 4.  (Maybe in battle, but they are all muddy, bloody, and murderous in battle so there's nothing unique there.)  Cheerio, Hea-ch-mund, fair play!   

 

PS:  For some odd reason, that scene was very powerful for me.  I sat in my pew this Sunday at church -- high Episcopalian, smells and bells, robes, and stuff -- and had a flashback to the stabbing scene.  Made taking the Eucharist at the rail a whole new experience. 

Edited by Captanne
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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

Oh yeah, thats a great call, Bishop Dumbass. Tell the super violent crazy guy that not only are you plotting to kill the king (one of his backers), but you are planning on telling everyone about his tryst with a hot viking lady, screwing his career up. Yeah, I totally see that going well. Why not send him a painted picture of you giving him the finger, with the captain "Come At me, Bro" painted underneath? I did like how the scene was shot though, especially with the body of Bishop of Dumbass bleeding all over the altar. Certainly gave a medieval vibe. 

Yeah, Bjorn is certainly Ragnars son all right, got girls falling all over him everywhere he goes. What a weird scene, it felt like the start of some kind of medieval themed porno, like the next scene will have a handmaiden come in to "deliver a pizza" or something, and join in any second. Also, like Ragnar, he just cant keep it in his damn pants. 

I like the way the Ubbe/Alfred story is going, I've always liked Ubbe, and I am interested to seeing where this goes. He actually seemed to be considering being baptized and joining with Alfred, but would he actually do it? Ubbe is pretty good at playing the long game (he is definitely the most cool headed of all of Ragnars kids) so he might actually do it so he can actually accomplish what his father started. 

Poor Margaret. And of course Ivar would send in a whole hoard of guys to stab her to death for talking about his dick. Typical Ivar. Also, he clearly skipped out on sex ed in Viking school. "Yeah baby, blood makes babies happen. Everyone knows that..." 

Floki did really pick the whiniest bunch of Vikings to come on his pilgrimage, huh? 

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Ohwell

Ohwell

Maybe Bishop Dumbass thought that since he was a bishop, that God would protect him from the bad guys, especially being in a safe place like a church.  I'm just making up stuff, that's all I got. 

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nowornever

nowornever

Hvitserk must have gotten a taste of what Ubbe was dealing with from Margrete and ratted her out to Ivar, or maybe Ivar just didn't trust her and killed her despite Hvitsirk.   I really didn't like her, but I felt sorry for her at the end, too.   Also, it's cold out- you can't tell me that the vikings who build amazing ships can't build walls and doors without gaping holes between the slats.  

I'm sort of seeing parallels between Astrid and Harald and Ivar and Freydis with the pregnancy thing, but good lord, does Fredis really think she can keep Ivar convinced that he's a god and can father children with his blood?  Sooner or later, someone will tell him the truth or her sperm donor will try to blackmail her and she's going to be in trouble.

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