S14.E07: Unhuman Nature

[raven]

Quote

Sam and Castiel track down a shaman who may be able to help a friend; Nick continues to spiral down a dark path as he looks for answers surrounding the deaths of his wife and son; Jack turns to Dean for help enjoying the human experience.

Airdate 2018.11.29

[Katy M]

Am I the only one who doesn't care if Jack lives or die.  And he's obviously going to live.  

Can't anyone stay dead on this show?  I said it was stupid for Dean to say yes to Michael and since Nick has woken up Lucifer in The Empty, it was not only stupid, it is now pointless.  

And, gee, Cas, it was obviously an experiment. Do you think this has happened before. First you have to have an Nephilim from an archangel.  Then that Nephilim has to lose his grace.  When would this have happened, Cas?  When?  

And, you would think Sam and Dean had never made up answers for a hospital before.  Jack Kline.  His mother dies in childbirth.  Never knew who his father was.  Boom.  Done. Except for the pesky insurance part, which the hospital seemed oddly unconcerned with.  

[BoxManLocke]

You know I was almost about to faintly praise BuckLeming for this one and say that if it wasn't for their Pellegrino obsession, they could almost blend right in with the other writers nowadays.

 

Then that penultimate scene (which made no fucking sense) happened and I realized that obsession was going to take over the show. Again.

 

Lucifer's gonna come back, heal Jack, stick around and help fight Michael or whatever, because this show can't commit to anything but the past anymore. can't take risks, can't give proper storylines to its leads, and can't do its side characters justice except motherfucking Lucifer.

 

I'll keep watching until he comes back, which will probably be episode 13. Then I'm done. I just can't take the crushing disappointment year after year when all there is to look forward to is a few scenes every once in a while like those with Dean and Jack here.

Edited November 30, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

Then that penultimate scene (which made no fucking sense) happened and I realized that obsession was going to take over the show. Again.

As much as it annoys me that what's dead can't stay dead, it doesn't not make sense to a certain degree.  Vessels have special phone lines to their angels.  We know this from Free to Be You and Me.  And we know from the end of Patience if something is strong enough it can wake someone up in The Empty.  So, I would say special phone line might be equal to strong power.  Although, we also know that Cas was the first to ever wake up from there, but probably not a lot of vessels pray to their dead angels, because they either wouldn't know they were hosts, or they would have died like every other occupied vessel at the time of angel smiting.  And that's where the real illogic comes from. Why was NIck alive at all at the beginning of the season?

[ahrtee]

Hmmm...after 8 minutes in to the episode, I came here to say how *very little* interest I have in the Nick/Lucifer story, and my computer shut itself down in mid-sentence.  Luci, is that you?

[MysteryGuest]

I haven't watched the episode yet, will wait until tomorrow.  But seriously, they're using the Empty to bring Lucifer back?  I can't even.  I knew he would be back, otherwise why keep Nick alive, but still, this pisses me off, no end.  And how is Nick still alive anyway?  After all that was done to that vessel by Lucifer, Crowley, etc., he'd be long dead by now.  Really shitty writing and absolutely no original thinking whatsoever.  I know I'm bitching and I haven't seen one scene of the episode yet, but I am so fucking over Lucifer.  Why not just wake up everyone from the Empty?  Need to re-populate Heaven...just wake up all of the dead angels.

[SueB]

Dean: ‘Who’d have thought hanging out with me would make you sentimental?’

Audience: EVERYONE Dean.  Everyone.  You are a deeply passionate man who loves without limitation.  

Dean/Jack was perfect IMO.

I can get Dean being flustered with the medical staff.  I think he was internally panicking.  

So, what’s up with the weird wobble-vision?  Clearly a phenomenon both Nick and Dean are experiencing.  Left over grace residue? SOMETHING is going on.

With Lucifer (who looked like the original Terminator coming out of the Empty goo) potentially coming back (via Nick’s prayer), I’m worried the only solution is grace from Luci.

 I’m glad the cop was possessed.   Makes sense that Nick was set up as a backup for Luci (or they implemented the plan after Sam escaped).

But it’s got me wondering — if Jack (nephilim via Archangel) woke Castiel, and Nick (with Archangel residue) can wake Lucifer —- what can Dean do?   Could Dean wake Gabriel?  

I’m not remotely looking forward to Lucifer coming back BTW.   But maybe that’s what brings Michael back onto the board ‘actively’.  Because Michael won’t let Lucifer hang out.

But Nick?  You’re whack.  So you want to murder without guilt.   Makes you fundamentally bad.  Because a good guy would turn his ass back to the bunker and tell them he’s a danger.   So, I have zero sympathy for Nick.   

Loved Rowena.  ‘Bollocks.’   Powerless against the sweetness of the Cinamon Roll.   

Poor Cas.   Can someone just HUG HIM?!   He needs some comfort.   He feels like a failure and yet he’s totally selfless and caring in every move he makes.   

Summary:  Good episode.  More questions than answers but I liked the episode.  

[Morrigan2575]

Lucifer Rising from the goo looked so much like The Terminator CGI. Weird.

I can't believe how attached I am to Jack. I wouldn't have pictured that 2 years ago. I love how Alex seems to copy Misha/Castiel's mannerisms. So perfect since Jack chose Castiel as his father.

Loved every Jack/Dean scene. It always amused me how Jack seemed to want to be like or at least get Dean's approval. I love that Jack just wanted to spend quality time with the people he loves before dying. It's also no surprise that Dean wanted to get Jack laid before he died 😁

I was iffy on the whole Sergei thing, I expected he was working for Michael. I was right that he was shady just not about how/why he was shady.

Michael is either still in Dean and has a way to listen in on what Dean sees/hears.

I would say this was a 75/25 episode. I enjoyed everything but Nicks storyline and I hate that they're bringing Lucifer back again.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[BoxManLocke]

5 minutes ago, Katy M said:

As much as it annoys me that what's dead can't stay dead, it doesn't not make sense to a certain degree.  Vessels have special phone lines to their angels.  We know this from Free to Be You and Me.  And we know from the end of Patience if something is strong enough it can wake someone up in The Empty.  So, I would say special phone line might be equal to strong power.  Although, we also know that Cas was the first to ever wake up from there, but probably not a lot of vessels pray to their dead angels, because they either wouldn't know they were hosts, or they would have died like every other occupied vessel at the time of angel smiting.  And that's where the real illogic comes from. Why was NIck alive at all at the beginning of the season?

I think it's a reach to think a human can resurrect an archangel, or anything in the empty for that matter. Just by praying, special phone line or not.
But then, all that Dabb's been doing for two years is constantly reaching to make every new resurrection acceptable to the point where my suspension of disbelief is completely gone.

I want to feel something when characters die and SPN isn't the show for that anymore. It's an old and soulless fanservice machine that's about actors instead of characters.

Well if I want to see J² or Misha on my screen I can just launch Youtube. No need to sit through this giant mountain of bullshit anymore especially when it can't stop exposing me to Pellegrino.

[Myrelle]

This one was the Jack and Nick/Lucifer Show(and yup, of course Lucifer is coming back...*yawn*....)

I'd wonder what was going on with Dean if I didn't kind of already know that his blurred vision is just a bi-product of his fear of losing a family member like what happened last season when he found out Mary was alive in the AU. I'd bet that this is the what the present set of writers think of as "consistency"<insert eye roll here>.

The scenes with Dean and Jack were the best thing about the episode, IMO; unfortunately they fit better in Soapernatural than they would have in Supernatural, and that's been a huge part of the problem with this season for me-especially when you consider the thought that they could have been giving us an awesome supernatural storyline that involved Michael!Dean all this time instead of putting all their efforts into LeaderSam, WoobieJack, and resurrecting old and moldy Lucifer for the the umpteenth time.

What a bunch of creatively bankrupt fools these writers are.

It's mind-boggling to this viewer how quickly and thoroughly they've screwed this season to hell already. 

It must be a record.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Myrelle

[Lady Calypso]

I honestly flipped to a different channel whenever Nick had his scenes, but I did catch his last scene with Lucifer being raised in the Empty. What's the point of Nick if Lucifer's already on his way back? His whole storyline has been pointless. Plus, even further proof that death doesn't matter so why not bring every single dead character back? If it's really that easy, then just do it, already. 

I liked everything else in the episode, though. Dean/Jack is a pairing I thoroughly enjoy. I am a Jack fan, so I do care about him living or dying. And honestly, for most of the episode, I thought that maybe, if Dean still had some archangel in him, that he could be the one to heal Jack. I loved Dean and Jack's road trip. I liked them going fishing and Dean letting Jack drive. For Dean to do that, it is a huge move and it made total sense. I like that he cares about Jack, and we see Jack caring a lot about Dean. He kept looking at Dean for approval, especially at the end. 

I liked Sam/Cas' conversation about Dean. 

Overall, a good episode, if I pretend Nick doesn't exist.

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

I want to feel something when characters die and SPN isn't the show for that anymore. It's an old and soulless fanservice machine that's about actors instead of characters.

I'm with you there.  I've been sick of the resurrections since Season 5. I was OK with one each for our boys, but come on.  Enough is more than enough. Death has to mean something even on a show called Supernatural.

 

17 minutes ago, SueB said:

So, what’s up with the weird wobble-vision?  Clearly a phenomenon both Nick and Dean are experiencing.  Left over grace residue? SOMETHING is going on.

It seemed to happen every time they discussed archangel grace in his presence, which leads me to wonder if Jack is somehow subconsciously calling out to either Michael still inside dean, or residual grace in him.

 

20 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Why not just wake up everyone from the Empty?  Need to re-populate Heaven...just wake up all of the dead angels.

Here's my thing. I would prefer that. If they're going to make death mean nothing, and they went to the trouble to introduce the Empty and the idea that angels (and presumably demons) can be woken up, bring them all back.  Have one big blow out last half-season with Azazel, Lillith, Zachariah, Lucifer, Crowley (I know they'd have to recast and it would be weird), Raphael, Uriel.

 

20 minutes ago, SueB said:

Makes sense that Nick was set up as a backup for Luci (or they implemented the plan after Sam escaped).

I think it had to have been set up beforehand.  It seemed like Lucifer's first interaction with Nick was the same day, or at most a day after, Lucifer rose.  

[Pondlass1]

The only interesting bit was Dean’s blurred vision. Could it possibly mean something? Or will Dean continue his role of pretty wallpaper?

[devlin]

16 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I honestly flipped to a different channel whenever Nick had his scenes, but I did catch his last scene with Lucifer being raised in the Empty. What's the point of Nick if Lucifer's already on his way back? His whole storyline has been pointless. Plus, even further proof that death doesn't matter so why not bring every single dead character back? If it's really that easy, then just do it, already. 

I liked everything else in the episode, though. Dean/Jack is a pairing I thoroughly enjoy. I am a Jack fan, so I do care about him living or dying. And honestly, for most of the episode, I thought that maybe, if Dean still had some archangel in him, that he could be the one to heal Jack. I loved Dean and Jack's road trip. I liked them going fishing and Dean letting Jack drive. For Dean to do that, it is a huge move and it made total sense. I like that he cares about Jack, and we see Jack caring a lot about Dean. He kept looking at Dean for approval, especially at the end. 

I liked Sam/Cas' conversation about Dean. 

Overall, a good episode, if I pretend Nick doesn't exist.

I thought horrible man baby decided that Dean didn’t matter,  so I am confused as to why he would want dean’s approval 

[bethy]

I have really been enjoying the emotional beats they've been hitting with Dean and Jack. The two of them fishing together and Jack talking about John and Dean and spending time together being what matters was very sweet. Dean's reaction was so Dean - breaking voice combined with trying to brush it off. Oh, Dean. 

Also this made me laugh out loud:

Jack: It's like I'm you!

Dean: No. No, you're not me.

Jack: Okay! 

[ZennyKenny]

THOUGHTS:

- Hey remember before the season started and some of us were still hopeful about Dean's "Michael" storyline? Ahh, good times... I remember... hope...  

- soooo we just gonna casually have Dean's vision go all wonky and then not even follow up on that at the end of the episode? ...new to writing scripts, are we?

- I actually like Jack's storyline because it directly involves the boys. LOVED the Dean/Jack quality time

- Yay Roweena! Sorry not sorry, she's one of my favorite characters. ^__^

- Oh wow so Nick's really becoming a dark charactZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ I DON'T CARE!!!!

- it took an all-powerful Jack to bring back Castiel from the Empty, but you're telling me that a human Nick can bring back Lucifer just because he prayed to him?? Are you @%*%#!* kidding me?!?!?!

- I would discuss the story elements of the episode, but... there weren't any!

 

God I hate this season so much.

Edited November 30, 2018 by ZennyKenny

[ILoveReading]

29 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I am a Jack fan, so I do care about him living or dying.

That's the problem.  I feel nothing.  Jensen made me feel Dean's worry and apprehension, but why should I as a viewer care if Jack is sick or if he dies when I know the show is just going to bring him back if he dies. 

As for Dean blurry vision, I noticed i happened when they were discussing Jack's grace.  If Lucifer can hear Nick, I'm guessing this means that Michael can hear Dean.  My first thought was that Michael might be eavesdropping and that was the reason he left Dean.  So he could send Dean back to the bunker for info.  (on what I have no idea).    But then I remember Dabb is running this show and that @Myrelle is probably right.  It was probably just Dean zoning out.

[SueB]

I wonder if Cas "broke" the Empty barrier somehow.  

I keep hearing Billie saying that this whole multidimensional construct is fragile and she didn't want the Winchesters breaking things.

Everything seems to be pointing to a watershed moment IMO.  What, I have NO clue. But it's like the fabric of the universe has been messed up a tad.  

[devlin]

11 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

 

As for Dean blurry vision, I noticed i happened when they were discussing Jack's grace.  If Lucifer can hear Nick, I'm guessing this means that Michael can hear Dean.  My first thought was that Michael might be eavesdropping and that was the reason he left Dean.  So he could send Dean back to the bunker for info.  (on what I have no idea).    But then I remember Dabb is running this show and that @Myrelle is probably right.  It was probably just Dean zoning out.

I figure it was just a camera glitch that was missed 

[tennisgurl]

So Lucifer comes back, looking weirdly like a few of the opening credits from American Horror Story! Of course his ass is coming back, we cant possibly have someone die and actually stay dead! Especially Lucifer, one of those villains that writers totally love, and keep around for way past their narrative expiration date. I dont care about Nick, and him letting Lucifer back into the world just so he doesent feel bad about his family or whatever anymore just makes him a willing accessory to assholeness. Before, I could sympathize with him letting Lucifer take possession of him, but now? I just do not care, and I am baffled as to why he is even still around, beyond the writers love for the actor.

I dont think Jack will actually die, so I cant say I felt a lot of tension, but I did like his scenes with Dean. Oh Dean, we all know what a ridiculous softie you are, you dont have to deny it! Them in the car, going fishing, just hanging out, it was nice. All of the "oh my god, Jack will die!" scenes were really well acted, even some of the slightly tedious ones. I like the relationship Jack has with Dean, and with Cas. 

Speaking of, Cas looked like he was on the verge of falling on the ground sobbing all episode. And Dean looked like he was about to start punching the wall until his knuckles bleed, or some other ridiculous manly thing. Damn it, they need hugs! Lots of hugs!

Of course the shaman guy was sketchy. I would actually be interested in using regular medical science to try and treat Jack, as well as magic, but I guess its hard to give medical history for a kid who is the literal spawn of Satan. "His fathers history? Ummmm, do you know how to spell Nephilim? Just asking..."

[Lemuria]

In regard to the fuzzy moment, I posted a link in the Spoilers thread to a TVLine article where Dabb and JA reference it. (I’d post it again here but I’m not sure how I did it the first time! 🙄)

I did like the Dean/Jack scenes (though I admit I’m still not rah rah about Jack). 

Ah, Nickifer. Supernatural’s very own Lana Lang. 

[Pondlass1]

At least the miscellaneous hunters have left the bunker.  Did Sam send them on hunts or have I not been paying attention and they’ve gone back thru the rift?  Hammer welding Mark is acting his little heart out and we’ve got a terminator rising from the goo yet simple stuff like Dean fishing and reminiscing is somehow more potent storytelling. Andrew doesn’t recognise when he’s got gold in his hands.  He lets it slip thru fingers and grabs onto the pointless.  It’s crazy.

[tennisgurl]

As for Deans weird sketchy vision, I've suspected for awhile that Michael is still inside of him, watching what all is going on. He doesent know about it, but his is just lurking in his brain somewhere. At least that would mean we can actually get into the Michael/Dean story. Oh, what promise that story had! It seemed like, for about three seconds, we were going to get a really emotional story for Dean, where we focus on his horrible trauma and conflicting feelings about what happened, and everyone would be there for him, and...we dont get any of that beyond some "you good?" "Fine", and moving onto teenage ninjas, Mary being a crappy mom, NotBobby dealing with angst, and Jack with his Victorian novel illness. Basically, anything other than what seemed like would be a big story.

[sarthaz]

Nickifer and Jack. Yay. Only thing missing was the Mary and NotBobby romance in a trifecta of shit I don't care about.

[Wynne88]

I don't have a problem with them showing Dean's wonky vision and not immediately giving an explanation.  Let it build, add a few more clues.  I'm good.  I also really liked the Dean/Jack scenes.  I always enjoy seeing the characters do normal stuff, although it does bother me a little bit that Jack has apparently latched onto Dean as his dad/role model to such an extent that he doesn't even bother to tell his other two dads 'bye'.  I also thought he bounced back miraculously from when he could barely stand up in the hospital.  I'm not sure I would be so comfortable letting a guy who has never driven before and who has been collapsing without warning behind the wheel, but Dean's a lot braver than me.

I wonder how many takes it took when Castiel was holding his hand over Jack's head and chest?  He looked like Alex was braced for Misha to smack him, but maybe I've just read too many stories about how much fun they have picking on him.

For some reason, Sam and Dean looked a lot older and worn to me this episode.  Maybe because I watched a few of the earlier season episodes this afternoon when they were just babies, but they actually looked their age to me.  (Which I'm not complaining about; they are both still really good looking men.)

I really wish they'd make up their minds what to do about all the people from the AU.  It's ridiculous to have them buzzing around the bunker for two episodes, and then bam, they're gone without a single reference.  That sort of crap drives me crazy.

[Female83]

I'm not a fan of the AU! hunters so I liked that it was Dean, Sam, Jack, Cass, and with appearance by Rowena. I liked the Dean/Jack scenes and I'm wondering if the shaman is working Michael and if the archangel is using Dean to spy on the boys. I wasn't too crazy about Lucifer's true form. 

[BabySpinach]

God, that whole sequence with Jack in the hospital and his three dads flocking around him was so soapy it made me roll my eyes. Reminded me of those generic network medical shows, cheesy music and all. Actually, it felt like something straight out of Dr. Sexy MD. DEFINITELY not feeling goopy shit like this.

Rowena's cynicism predictably lasted a hot second before she, too, fell under the Sue spell because Jack is just so darn angelic and pure, dontcha know? No edge at all, just 100% marshmallow, woobie levels cranked up to 11, yay! 

Funny how Dean going fishing and driving is far more interesting than Nick brutally murdering people. His scenes with Jack were fairly charming, since they were lighter than the excessively maudlin hospital ones. These two also have a more authentic dynamic because Dean didn't immediately go googoo over him at the beginning, and Jack actually had to work to earn his trust (even though it was still really rushed). Jack also seems to value Dean's approval the most, since he's always been honest with him and prioritized straight talk over sugarcoating. Even when Jack was afraid that Dean would kill him, he was at least aware of how things stood and therefore knew that Dean's changing opinion of him was genuine. 

I couldn't give less of a shit about Nick and Luci. And honestly, I don't see much of a difference between the two in terms of acting. It's basically just like watching petty, sadistic Lucifer all over again. But I don't believe that he's going to be fully resurrected as the same old whiny, spoiled manchild with too much power that we're tired of hating. Seems like he'll be more of a plot device this time, or so I'm desperately hoping is the case. Pretty much the whole fandom, regardless of faction, vehemently wants Lucifer gone for good. The writers can't be THAT tone-deaf and oblivious, can they? (Don't answer that.)

Aside from Dean's weird fuzzy moments, I found this episode mostly dull and wheel-spinney. Still waiting for one of the lead's stories to actually kick into gear. Any time, now...

Shallow moment: Dean's confused blinking really drew my attention to his giant, pretty eyes. Some (literal) eye candy never hurts, hehe.

[Casseiopeia]

Does Dabb actually watch this show?

From Beat the Devil

ROWENA Shut your mouth! --Oh! You want to get inside my head, twist the knife? Two can play that game. Do you know what your grace is making possible right now? The heartfelt family reunion of Sam, Dean, Cas, Mary, and your very own son Jack. That's right. Your wee boy's over there, and he'll be so glad to see his three fathers. Of course, as far as he's concerned, they are his father. And you? You're nothing to him. Or me. Or anyone now. Nothing

Wasn't this the main plot of the entire episode?  Wasn't that just last year?

Edited November 30, 2018 by Casseiopeia

[Katy M]

I was thinking that maybe Michael left some kind of supernatural bug inside Dean and every time it hears something useful, Dean does the phasey thing. Perhaps Michael even got to the shaman before Cas, and he did something to GAbriel's grace.  Or maybe that was even his own grace.  And, maybe the bug thing was detectable to the djinn a couple of episodes ago.

[Ray Adverb]

As a native Delawarean, I enjoyed that Nick is from Pike Creek, and that he met that reporter lady in Wilmington.  We always get a kick out of seeing our dinky state referenced in media.  I was annoyed that they misnamed our newspaper.  It's "The News Journal", not "The Tribune".

I fell asleep about halfway through this episode but it looks like I spoilered myself.  Are they seriously going to bring Lucifer back yet again?  I liked him for a while, but he had his time and needs to stay the fuck down.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Ray Adverb

[Ray Adverb]

Wasn't Nick thrown into the cage with Sam and Dean's half brother whatshisname?  How did he get out?  Where was he during that time 2 seasons ago when Lucifer was hopping around among famous and powerful human vessels?

[trudysmom]

3 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

God, that whole sequence with Jack in the hospital and his three dads flocking around him was so soapy it made me roll my eyes. Reminded me of those generic network medical shows, cheesy music and all. Actually, it felt like something straight out of Dr. Sexy MD. DEFINITELY not feeling goopy shit like this.

Hahahah I thought "Three Men and Woobie".  lol

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Does Dabb actually watch this show?

From Beat the Devil

ROWENA Shut your mouth! --Oh! You want to get inside my head, twist the knife? Two can play that game. Do you know what your grace is making possible right now? The heartfelt family reunion of Sam, Dean, Cas, Mary, and your very own son Jack. That's right. Your wee boy's over there, and he'll be so glad to see his three fathers. Of course, as far as he's concerned, they are his father. And you? You're nothing to him. Or me. Or anyone now. Nothing

Wasn't this the main plot of the entire episode?  Wasn't that just last year?

 

9 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I was thinking that maybe Michael left some kind of supernatural bug inside Dean and every time it hears something useful, Dean does the phasey thing. Perhaps Michael even got to the shaman before Cas, and he did something to GAbriel's grace.  Or maybe that was even his own grace.  And, maybe the bug thing was detectable to the djinn a couple of episodes ago.

I'm honestly tired of beating my head against the wall over this show. It has gone beyond winking at the camera and is to the point of mocking the viewers with their complete lack of respect. These two things are prime examples. How can they possibly defend ignoring Rowena's knowledge of Jack? It's insulting.

And as for Dean, it is beyond ridiculous that he would experience ANYTHING questionable right now and not immediately warn Sam and Cas that something is wrong. So unless Michael is suppressing his will, then I call bullshit. 

They are ruining Dean for no good reason.

[trudysmom]

3 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Does Dabb actually watch this show?

No he doesn't watch, he just screws it up.  I hate to give props to Pellegrino, I truly don't like him as Lucifer (and am so over him as the character that will not die) but he did do an admirable job in his last scene.  His prayer to Lucifer was intense, and I could see the anguish of a man giving up because the pain, not being able to take it anymore, and his admission that he enjoys the killing.  

That said, I still want him to go away.  

What's making me tired lately is that everything seems to bear the same weight of importance.  Be it a lost hunter, Jack's imminent death, Dean's possession by a dick archangel, or Not!Kaia and her magic sword, they all seem to be on the same level of crisis.  I'm thinking of Sam and his constipated expression, Cas (and I love Misha, hate to criticize) and is furrowed brow.  I know I'm repeating myself but the only one who seems to have any range on this show is Dean.  The rest are just paper cutouts of characters, acting/reacting only one way.  

[Morrigan2575]

10 hours ago, devlin said:

I figure it was just a camera glitch that was missed 

No it was very specific, not only did it happen twice with Dean Zoning out and blurry vision but, you also got the high pitch associated with Angels talking/Angel Radio.

So now, I think Michael is either eavesdropping or giving Dean subliminal orders.

Back to Lucifer Rising. I think that's either a way to save Jack (steal Lucifer's Grace) or showing how Jack can be brought back after he dies, same as Castiel and Lucifer

Edited November 30, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[Katy M]

11 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Back to Lucifer Rising. I think that's either a way to save Jack (steal Lucifer's Grace) or showing how Jack can be brought back after he dies, same as Castiel and Lucifer

Do we really need to be shown how Jack could be brought to life?  Nobody stays dead on this show.  except for John Winchester.  And Jessica.  From a story point of view, it's almost a little ridiculous how two people who are constantly bring everyone back from the dead, don't remedy those two deaths.

[Bobcatkitten]

35 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Do we really need to be shown how Jack could be brought to life?  Nobody stays dead on this show.  except for John Winchester.  And Jessica.  From a story point of view, it's almost a little ridiculous how two people who are constantly bring everyone back from the dead, don't remedy those two deaths.

And Crowley.

 

I don't have much to say about this episode. Three storylines at once doesn't work for me. It's too much. I loved Dean and Jack scenes. Absolutely precious. Though to be honest why wasn't Sam bonding with Jack too? I don't need them always together it just seemed odd that Sam was doing pretty much nothing back at the bunker. Don't care about Nick - hate Lucifer coming back. 

I can see Dean ignoring the dizziness - especially while in the middle of a crisis with Jack. 

[Lady Calypso]

I also want to praise Jared for his acting in this episode. Sam looked distraught throughout the entire episode. Unlike Dean, Sam is really bad at hiding his emotions, often to his detriment. In this case, it did work really well. Sam had the red eyes and tears in every single scene, and I thought it was nicely done. All three of Sam, Dean, and Cas did a good job showing different levels of grief and sadness.

[catrox14]

5 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

to get inside my head, twist the knife? Two can play that game. Do you know what your grace is making possible right now? The heartfelt family reunion of Sam, Dean, Cas, Mary, and your very own son Jack. That's right. Your wee boy's over there, and he'll be so glad to see his three fathers. Of course, as far as he's concerned, they are his father. And you? You're nothing to him. Or me. Or anyone now. Nothing

Thank you!!!  I knew she knew about Jack. I am 100% convinced that BLemming don't watch and don't care about continuity at all. That said , given the sheer volume of terrible and unnecessary exposition from Sam and Cas, I think they deliberately had Rowena not remember so Sam could tell all of Jack's back story for the 10th fucking time.

And it was there again when Sam brought up Dean being mean to poor woobie Nougat Boy when that was resolved last damn season. I swear I think they literally are writing this like a soap opera wherein its pretty much all exposition and plot.

I enjoyed Dean with Jack yet once more that felt more like Dean is dying than Jack.

Fuck you, show, for bringing back Lucifer, but we alI knew it would happen. I'm sick of Mark Pellegrino chewing the scenery.

The score was terrible in this episode. It was overwrought, irritating, and treacly. It felt nothing like Supernatural.

The mention of "experiment" with the shaman makes me think that Michael put him up to it trying to weaken Jack.

Dean's wonky vision thing was interesting and makes me further think Michael is still inside Dean.

But mostly I just didn't care about whether Jack dies or not (he won't). Nick's SL is both boring and terrible. Go the fuck away Nick and Lucifer.

[Pondlass1]

2 hours ago, trudysmom said:

What's making me tired lately is that everything seems to bear the same weight of importance.  Be it a lost hunter, Jack's imminent death, Dean's possession by a dick archangel, or Not!Kaia and her magic sword, they all seem to be on the same level of crisis.  I'm thinking of Sam and his constipated expression, Cas (and I love Misha, hate to criticize) and is furrowed brow.  I know I'm repeating myself but the only one who seems to have any range on this show is Dean.  The rest are just paper cutouts of characters, acting/reacting only one way. 

This ^^ is the issue for me too.  They're in crisis mode all the time these days - constipation and puckered brows abound.  But this week's crisis is forgotten over and done by the following episode.  How can an audience be expected to invest if the stories jump all over the place without rhyme or reason?  And what about Jack's sickness?  Pander to him, let him drive Baby and he's fine... look away for a moment and he's fallen to the floor surrounded by bloody Kleenex.  The hospital scenes were silly, the brothers lie for a living yet there they all were bumbling like non-hunter fools. 

Too many story strings going on at once dilutes it down.  There's no tension or weight any more because everything is a super duper dilemma until it's not.  Death carries no clout. And if TPTB haven't realized by now that even the twitter 'squee' bunch are fed up with Lucifer, then they really are out to lunch.  Mark is a good solid actor.  Let him go act in another show.

Fingers crossed for Dean's blurry moment to actually mean something. Michael is listening, or Michael is still there... or whatever.  It's something to grab onto, although I'm wondering who'll portray Lucifer for the big Dean!Michael/Lucifer fight at the hiatus finale. It could be Sam. It could be Jack. Still, at least we know they won't dangle on high wires.

[tessathereaper]

47 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

And Crowley.

 

I don't have much to say about this episode. Three storylines at once doesn't work for me. It's too much. I loved Dean and Jack scenes. Absolutely precious. Though to be honest why wasn't Sam bonding with Jack too? I don't need them always together it just seemed odd that Sam was doing pretty much nothing back at the bunker. Don't care about Nick - hate Lucifer coming back. 

I can see Dean ignoring the dizziness - especially while in the middle of a crisis with Jack. 

Yeah if this is the first time Dean's experienced this dizziness and blurry vision I can see it him ignoring it in this situation.  As you say they are in the middle of a crisis with Jack, he might put it down to stress.  If it keeps happening, then we'll see.

[juppschmitz]

42 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The score was terrible in this episode. It was overwrought, irritating, and treacly. It felt nothing like Supernatural.

Whatever glimpse I've got however few episodes I was horrified at the absolutely atrocious score. It was beyond grating and only put me off the show even more.

Have none of the writers ever heard about subtlety?

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Yeah if this is the first time Dean's experienced this dizziness and blurry vision I can see it him ignoring it in this situation.  As you say they are in the middle of a crisis with Jack, he might put it down to stress.  If it keeps happening, then we'll see.

I'm hoping if it is Michael's doing that he is making it so Dean himself doesn't remember those moments so he can't tell anyone about them if he doesn't know he had them.  

[juppschmitz]

44 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Fingers crossed for Dean's blurry moment to actually mean something.

Even if it does mean something, nothing is going to come off it. It's just another little piece of ~clickbait~ to keep Dean girls coming back.

[sigmaforce86]

Main plot lines aside what I want to mention is the funny part of the episode - but I have no idea if it was intentional or not.

Dean bursts into the ER with Jack and bellows "I need some help here" and.....................nothing happens.  The Doctors don't swarm in, the stretcher doesn't magically appear within 3 inches of them, they don't get swooped into an improbably huge treatment/operating room.  It's like a real ER with sick bleeding people everywhere and a receptionist/triage nurse more concerned with paperwork than anything else.  You have to come in with the paramedics or be half dead on the floor (as Jack eventually was) to get immediate attention.  So they went right past all the TV stereotypes, the boys were essentially ignored and Dean looked completely baffled at the lack of response.  Skipping the part where they couldn't come up with a fake name and backstory the whole dramatic entrance was hilarious whether they meant it to be or not.

My fan fiction make up a story as you watch brain was thinking maybe Dean's hallucinations were indicating he has a little of Micheal's grace left behind in him and it'll turn out to be exactly what's needed to save Jack.  Maybe (probably) that's not where they're going with this; but if the story on screen doesn't hold my interest that's how I pass show time; by making up my own current and future plots.

[ILoveReading]

I wish we had gotten a scene where Dean (or Sam) called Mary to tell her about Jack and she mentions something about how she hasn't seen Dean in a couple of weeks.  Instant way to connect last weeks episode to this and build on the mystery of what's happening to Dean.

[Aeryn13]

I thought this was pretty lackluster to be honest. And I fast-forwarded all the Nick scenes because I. just. don`t. care. Even by fastforwarding I noticed how much screentime it took up. Bucklemming take their stanning to the next level. And of course Lucifer wakes up in the Empty, looking like a silly CGI Terminator version. Oy, did that look bad. 

The Dean/Jack scenes were well done but overall because of their uber-woobifying of Jack instead of giving him a real character, everything was far less effective than it could have been. I don`t even know why this old "Dean was so mean to poor Jack" chestnut was brought up in the episode. They prominently put it in the previouslies and then referenced it in dialogue but it really didn`t affect anything. And why would it? The characters have long since moved beyond it so this served no real purpose in the story, not even in terms of emotional growth. Thankfully, it didn`t descend into Dean-bashing but if it had not been there, nothing would have changed.

Rowena was fine but didn`t have all that much to do. Her not knowing who Jack is despite that scene in Season 13 was just embarassing. In terms of "screw canon", this is Bucklemmings second biggest offense, right after making Lucifer the old brother because they arrogantly and stupidly were ignorant of the entire Season 5 storyline. 

Thankfully no AU hunters. Please don`t ever return. 

Dean`s woozy-spells, looks like Michael looks in through him. Though I honestly don`t get why this would suddenly flare up. There was nothing like that in the KaiaSue episode and we know Michael is interested in her stupid spear. This is the first time we`ve seen this dizzyness from Dean so why would anything in the current situation trigger it? Simply them talking about archangel grace? Makes no sense. 

If Bucklemming could have gotten over their insane Lucifer/Mark-obsession, this could have been an episode that was okay but because they need to bring this tired overdone character back and happily negate Dean`s sacrifice, I`m left with a lot of annoyance.

[Katy M]

22 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Thankfully no AU hunters. Please don`t ever return. 

You reminded me that I thought that instead of trying to heal Jack with that archangel grace, they should have used it to open the rift and send the other hunters back. They did promise before they brought them over after all.

[Cattyyer]

50 minutes ago, Katy M said:

You reminded me that I thought that instead of trying to heal Jack with that archangel grace, they should have used it to open the rift and send the other hunters back. They did promise before they brought them over after all.

Yes, but I think Sam and Dean don`t want to bring them back. Remember, when on 13x22 they left Gabriel and Lucifer? How can they open the portal, if all the archangels are gone?

[Casseiopeia]

My favorite moment of the episode....actually Dean both of Jacks parents exploded...