S04.E05: Savages

[Athena]

Quote

Claire's medical expertise proves invaluable, but she begins to fear for her life when tragedy strikes her patients' household. Jamie and Young Ian travel to a nearby town to recruit settlers for Fraser's Ridge.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This can include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

[bluestocking]

Murtagh!  That is all.

[ruby24]

MURTAGH!!!! Yay!!

[Cloudberryjam]

Right?! My dream man is back!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️😍😍😍Murtagh❤️❤️❤️❤️

[Petunia846]

Ahhhh! So is he there to stay? And how are they ever going to get any settlers?

How long has it been between episodes, and how the you know what did Claire and Jamie acquire so much stuff??

I found myself a little frustrated by the lack of forward momentum in the Roger and Bree storyline. Judging by Roger going around at the beginning of the episode looking for her, I was expecting to get further in that timeline, but it seems like all we get is Roger reading the letter and Bree at the stones. But by the time Roger's reading that letter, Bree's already gone, right? Those weren't happening concurrently, right? That was a horrible outfit she managed to scrounge up, right? She's going to be taken for some kind of prostitute with a skirt that short, right? Ugg. (Also, Mrs./Miss Baird! How cool to see that area again.)

The Mueller situation was well portrayed. If I recall correctly, it's coming back from the birth at the Muellers that Claire gets caught in a storm, falls off her horse and ends up lost under the tree roots with the skull and the ghost. So I guess maybe they just needed to shift things around to make everything else in this episode work.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Petunia846

[GingerMarie]

 Sean Connery ANYONE? Murtagh is HOT.  Ian is getting stronger each episode.  So just a couple of issues.....Does 1768 seem like the never ending year?  I thought Claire went back in 1768 and when the episode started the cabin was built, was furnished pretty nicely but before that they started in Edinburgh went to Lallybroch, then sailed to the  West Indies, then shipwrecked in the colonies, found their way to River Run and now settled in North Carolina.  It just seems like more time should have passed.  In past seasons Outlander did not have these weekly 'cliffhangers'.  I agree with Petunia846 that their story should have moved along in this episode.  So Jamie does have 'special powers' he saw Brianna.  I do remember in the first season Jamie asking Claire 'how do the stones work' and she said something along the lines of she really did not know but it was if something or maybe someone was pulling you to the other side.  I remember Jamie standing outside her hotel in the storm and the next day Claire went through the stones.  This was a verey emotional episode, Murtagh, the birth of a baby, the death of the family and the murder of a Healer. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by GingerMarie

[cardigirl]

So much packed into one episode.  I kept worrying that Mueller would do something to Claire and Jamie's animals. But then it was so much worse. So horrifying. The relationship with the Native Americans and the settlers is so fraught with misunderstanding.  Did the show say how the daughter had lost her husband?  And we saw how Mueller and his wife died, but I didn't see if his younger son was there when the house was set on fire.

The reunion between Jamie and Murtagh was well done.  I loved that part of the episode.

I am confused about the passage of time.  If it is 1971 in Brianna's time, does that mean that 3 years have passed since Claire went back? It was 1968 when she left modern times.  I didn't see the time stamp for the colonial time, but I would guess, as the cabin is pretty well fitted out, that they have been there a while.  

The unfair taxation leading to the revolution, I like how they are setting up the history. 

I'm not sure I'll enjoy watching all that happens to poor Roger.

[Rilla-my-Rilla]

1 hour ago, GingerMarie said:

So just a couple of issues.....Does 1768 seem like the never ending year?  I thought Claire went back in 1768

It's more like 202 years difference. In season 1, when Claire time travels she leaves 1946 and ends up in 1744. Then when she leaves during the battle of Culloden in 1746, she ends up in 1948.  So she leaves Boston last season in December (Christmas) 1968 and probably goes through the stones in January 1969 so she should have gotten there in 1767. So she's probably been in the past this time around 18-20 months at this point I'd guess.

27 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I am confused about the passage of time.  If it is 1971 in Brianna's time, does that mean that 3 years have passed since Claire went back? It was 1968 when she left modern times.  I didn't see the time stamp for the colonial time

It did have a time stamp that said North Carolina 1768. I don't think they are showing the timelines quite concurrently. Claire leaves Christmas 1968 so she probably went back in January 1969 to 1767 and now it's 1768. Claire tells Murtaugh that Brianna is alive in 1970, so I think the show has shown more time passing in the 1970s since it said Roger was in 1971 and the timelines will sync up once we see Bree and Roger in the past. As in, by the time they get there, more time will have passed for the Frasers in the 1760s.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Rilla-my-Rilla

[morgan]

So much to like about this episode!  Love Claire and the Native American healer bonding (blanking on her name).  Horrified what happened to her.  Love all the small details about life on the homestead.  Rollo and the white sow are both fabulous!  Murtagh!!!!!  Nice twist not having him with Jocasta as many of us speculated, but having him with a useful trade and a regulator was great.  And taxation issues!  Obviously not just an issue for Boston!

Jamie and the candlestick...I was so sure he was going to come away with a new ring for Claire that was like the one in the book!  And I kept wondering what that would mean for the Bree/Bonet encounter.  Although Bree wouldn’t know of course.  

Love that they referenced jamie’s dream/forsight.

Mueller and family vs the natives was horrible and real and heartbreaking.  

Claire’s fear was well done!!!

I’m curious as to what propels Roger through the stones after getting Bree’s letter.  That didn’t happen in the book did it?  And I am anxious and nervous to see his adventures back in time and how that is portrayed.  

Loved both how awful Bree’s dress was (hello gunnesax!) and how they handled her passing through the stones.  I thought that was beautifully shot.

Edited December 2, 2018 by morgan

[Squirrely]

My face upon hearing Murtaugh speak his first line mirrored Murtaugh's face when he heard Jamie speak his first line. And then cue the tears! This is one change to the story I've supported wholly. 

[nodorothyparker]

Murtagh!  I quite love that they've given him a story that actually makes sense for the character we knew rather than shoehorning him in as just a Duncan Innes replacement.  His reaction to hearing and seeing Jamie after all these years was everything as was Jamie's in realizing that Murtagh's not at the same place he is in just wanting to be left alone to live a peaceful life.  You could almost see Jamie during Murtagh's rabble rousing thinking "Didn't we lose enough getting caught up in doomed causes before and now you want to take up this fight too?"  Making Murtagh part of the Regulators considerably ups the stakes in that story too instead of Jamie and company just riding around and battling some mostly faceless characters over poorly defined tax issues.  He was also proving a nice counterweight to Jamie's near pie in the sky sales pitch of land for everybody and a happily ever after.   Jamie means well but he hasn't been in the colonies long enough to see the politics really playing out or that these men he's recruiting have already had their own experiences with it and in some cases, have built lives or careers those experiences tell them maybe they shouldn't be so quick to abandon.  I like the way the show is subtly connecting the dots between what's happening now and the revolution to come.

The abbreviated version of the Muellers and the measles outbreak story was terrible and heartbreaking and of course ramped up for TV, but felt all too painfully plausible too when cultures with their different understandings of the world clash the way they were on the frontier.   It weirdly made me think of Book Claire's internal musings on her struggles to explain germ theory to various people of the time, even characters who knew why she knew about it.  It's a shame this means we only got Tantoo Cardinal for one episode.

I too thought it should be later than 1768 judging by how long it would have taken them to build everything up to this point.  Last episode made it seem like it was fairly late in the year and it would be a race to get the cabin built before winter.  But sure, Jamie's had time to figure out leaded windows and a fancy armoire and a table and six and every other thing with just Claire and Ian for help in no time at all.  I mostly enjoy the set decoration for this show, but some of it felt more like a European's idea of what an American frontier set should look like than the real deal.

[GHScorpiosRule]

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Not Snowbird Adawehi!!!!😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

This was an outstanding episode. And I figured the “surprise” would be Murtagh as the show didn’t kill him off and had him sent to the Colonies. He’s lookin’ mighty Braw and Hawt ‘tis Murtagh. With hair all silver and pewter.

Wee Ian’s “Old Coot” had me 😆😆😆🤣🤣

And no one here mentioned the parallel of Murtagh pausing when he heard Jamie’s voice to Jamie pausing when he heard Claire’s voice in ”A. Malcolm”. Except that Murtagh didn’t faint!😆😆😆😆

I got the good chills, nonetheless during their reunion and when Murtagh was whistling Boogy Woogy Bugle Boy when he came to Fraser’s Ridge and he and Claire hugged.

The tag said it was 1768, so a year has passed since that last episode-where it was 1767. So I had no issue with how nice the cabin looks or how lived in. Also believable as Claire can speak some words in Cherokee. And Adawehi knows Brianna is already here. That’s how I took her statement anyway. Even if Claire said yes, in her heart.

Agree with whoever stated (sorry, too many wonderful posts to quote) about the “are you kidding me?” Look on Jamie’s face when Murtagh was rallying the Scots. Very Dougal-like.

I just can’t with Sophie’s acting. Even in voice over, her Brianna is so wooden and monotone. I got no sense of any emotion from her. And it appears the scene of her shakily touching the stone was cut out in the actual episode.😒😒

To end on a positive note, I LOOOOOOVE the music/theme for when we see Craigh Na Dunh and Jamie and Claire’s music/theme when they are sharing intimate and emotional scenes.🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

Edited December 3, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[WatchrTina]

Okay I'm writing first reactions without reading anything above.  So first things first . . . Murtagh!  Whoo hoo!  I had figured it would happen and there had (alas) been hints about it on social media but still . . . Whoo hoo!

But . . . he's a regulator?  Hmmmmm.  That's a wrinkle I didn't see coming.

When I watch Game of Thrones I am actually thrilled when they go off-book because it means I get to be surprised.  So I'm trying to hang on to that feeling for Outlander as well.  But I have noticed that sometimes when they go off-book on Outlander weird, out-of-character things happen (like master-negotiator Ian suddenly having NO negotiation skills at all.  Grumble.)  But I will try to keep the faith.

Love the cabin.  We'll just hand-wave away all those luxurious amenities like glass windows and multiple candles burning all the time because, hey -- the set has to be lit.  

You know I HAVE read the book, so I shouldn't be shocked when terrible things that happened in the book also happen in the show.  That being said, this was a hard episode to watch.  One thing I loved was that Herr Mueller -- who is completely unreasonable about saying the water belongs to him, and who is later revealed to be a superstitious, murderous whacko -- IS smart enough to realize that the Indians could have watered their horses anywhere. Their choosing to do it right in front of his cabin was deliberate and they were sending him a clear message.  Alas, their being there gave him a scapegoat to blame for the death of his daughter-in-law and grandaugher (who he probably infected himself) and it lit a fire of vengeance in a grief-stricken, superstitious man and pushed him over the edge.  His actions then pushed the Indians to take bloody revenge.  This is such a sad episode.

Except when they find MURTAGH.  Hooray!  (We'll just hand-wave away how old he is according to the book.)  But even that joyous moment has a buzz-kill when we realize how Jamie's land-grant and indebtedness to the Governor puts him at odds with so many of his fellow Scottish settlers.

I did like how Jamie's admitting to have been imprisoned in Ardsmuir helps him bond enough with that one Scot in order to get the low-down on why everyone is having such a mistrustful reaction to him.

And now I'm going to go into the book-vs-show thread and speculate my little heart out because I have theories!!!

Edited December 2, 2018 by WatchrTina

[FnkyChkn34]

Murtagh!!!  I was surprised, I hadn't seen any spoilers. I recognized his voice, but nearly didn't recognize his face; they've done a nice job aging him. He would be similar in age to Jocasta, too. He's not *that* old...

[Quickbeam]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I just can’t with Sophie’s acting. Even in voice over, her Brianna is so wooden and monotone. I got no sense of any emotion from her. And it appears the scene of her shakily touching the stone was cut out in the actual episode.😒😒

 

I’m right there with you. I end up leaving the room. 

Murtagh! A great change up for the series. Very pleased. 

Given measles is now on the upswing, I thought this was a poignant reminder of what was. 

[Atlanta]

Murtagh! I lurve you! He probably went to FR not just to see Claire the BFF, but Claire from the future for advice.

The white sow... hee! I need Adso now. Love the Outlanimals.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Atlanta

[WatchrTina]

THE GOOD

Murtagh’s back!!!!!!! 

Everything else pales in comparison to the reunion of Jamie and Murtagh but I’ll list a few anyway.

This episode was written and directed by two women, which I just love.

That rabbit vest that Claire puts on looks totally realistic and very practical.  So did the leather wrist guards that Murtagh wears in the smithy. The costumes on this show are just great. 

I liked the montage that ends with Claire drinking what I assume is some form of alcohol.  She’d been working hard – first riding home from the Muellers (which clearly took a lot out of her) and then caring for all the animals single-handedly the next day.  She’s no spring chicken anymore so it does make sense that she’d treat herself to a wee dram at the end of the day . . . purely for medicinal purposes, ye ken. It’s also a nice foreshadowing of their later decision to do a bit of distilling as a side business.

Murtagh’s reaction to the news that Claire is back is wonderful.  I just LOVED that moment.  Which makes it all the more heart-breaking when, just a few minutes later, he hears about the land-grant to Jamie and leans back in his chair with that look on his face.

The fake-out of the arrows flying into a cabin and our not being sure whose cabin it is was very well done.  The shots of the burning cabin were also good -- at least some of those flames had to be real because you can see a blanket on the bed shrinking as the burning portion contracts.

The panoramic shot of the local scenery that they show right after Jamie returns is just gorgeous.  I assume that really is North Carolina.

 

THE BAD

If  Murtagh was so eager to go home that he was willing to turn away Ian’s business, then why is he still there, pumping the bellows, when Jamie comes calling?

WTF was the point of the slutty silversmith’s wife?  Were the writers trying to remind us that Jamie is still a fine specimen of a man who attracts the attention of the ladies?  Because if that is what they were up to let me be the first to say “Yeah, no shit.  We have eyes!”

Brianna’s dress is WAY too short.  

 

THE UGLY

Roger’s knitted hat.  Seriously WTF?  

Okay, okay that’s shallow. Obviously the ugliest thing in the episode is the hatred and mistrust between the Muellers and the native Americans and the murders that both sides commit as a result.

 

UNANSWERED QUESTIONS

When Jamie refuses Murtagh’s request to join the cause, Jamie says “A gathering of this size could well become violent.”  I didn’t really hear anything about a “gathering” during the talk so it’s not clear to me what Jamie meant by that.  But I’m going to hazard a guess that a gathering does occur and something goes badly at that gathering and THAT’S why Murtagh suddenly decides to take a wee trip to the back country.

How the heck did Jamie and Claire furnish their cabin?  I guess we should just assume that Jocasta was REALLY generous and there was a lot more stuff in that wagon that they were driving when they left RiverRun than we realized (including glass windows and a china cabinet.)  In the book she actually does send them a bunch of stuff via John Quincy Myers but it was more portable items like a feather bed and some iron with which to bless their hearth.

Brianna has her hair up in the last scene.  Did anyone see her distinctive birthmark?  I didn’t. That was a missed opportunity.

 

OTHER

When the men were signing that people of paper at the end of the meeting did anyone else think of that scene in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix when everyone signed on to join “Dumbledore’s Army”?

Edited December 3, 2018 by WatchrTina

[nodorothyparker]

Brianna's dress bothered me less on rewatch as I could see there was a longer dark underskirt underneath the shorter calico-looking fabric that probably came pretty close to ankle length.  It's still a little short but it reminded me a lot of the Holly Hobbie or what we called Little House style dresses we wore as girls in the '70s when TV wasn't always all that concerned about costumes being all that historically accurate either.  It's probably a lot closer to Claire's "Jessica Gutenberg" dress in the books, and I could well imagine Brianna without any guidance from Claire thinking it looked old fashioned enough it would likely get her where she needed to go.

[Atlanta]

Was so sad that Claire lost her new healer friend. *sniffles* I need to reread DoA.

Hope we get more Roger and Bree next week. The preview showed Lord John and Willie.

[CarpeFelis]

MURTAGH!!!

On a rather nitpicky note: any other knitters out there? Is it just me or is Claire holding her right-hand needle way too far back from the tip?

[Nidratime]

Quote

On a rather nitpicky note: any other knitters out there? Is it just me or is Claire holding her right-hand needle way too far back from the tip?

She was a horrible knitter. Jamie and Ian were way better.

[Quickbeam]

57 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

MURTAGH!!!

On a rather nitpicky note: any other knitters out there? Is it just me or is Claire holding her right-hand needle way too far back from the tip?

To me it looked like she had dropped all her stitches. I always get a chuckle out of actors knitting....you can pretty much tell who has facility and who is following stage directions. Best they can. I know Claire is supposed to be a reluctant knitter. 

[Glaze Crazy]

Brianna stole my Gunne Sax dress!

I waffle between wishing I had not read the books and being glad I know them so well that when stuff gets moved around and/or skipped altogether I at least know what direction the basic story is going to, even if it looks different on film. I do appreciate that the show runners are at least weaving the basic thread of the Fraser story from the books, so there's that. So far I've only watched each episode once and I'm not sure when I'll go back and watch them again, but probably near the end or after the season is done. I will see this series to the end, but I'm finding I'm not as enamored of it as I was in S1 and S2.

Glad to see that Murtagh has been reincarnated with an actual backstory that explains why he's stayed on in the Colonies as a blacksmith instead of immediately returning to his extended family in Scotland once his indenture was up. I still wonder why he never wrote to Jenny and Ian to let them know where he was and that he was staying on. He did know that Jamie had been alive when they were separated at Ardsmuir. This was always going to be my issue once they decided to change his story but I'm good with it and look forward to where the show runners take this character now that there might be some conflict between him and Jamie. I also got the Dougal-rabble-rousing vibe from that scene with Murtagh speaking to the regulators. Quite the mirror to Dougal stirring up the Jacobites against the King's army leading up to the '45. Once a warrior always a warrior, I guess.

I'm a bit perplexed on how nice these cabins in the woods seem to be, since most of that furniture should be pretty basic, rough and hand built from the local wood available. This stuff looks pretty high end, highly waxed and polished. It does look great on film, but it's sure not how a cabin in the Colonial frontier, only a year or two old, should have looked.  I would refer this production company to "Last of the Mohicans" where the cabin of the former indentured servants that was "Hacked out of the wilderness, using their own hands" looked, the fireplace being the primary source of light and a long roughly built table and benches being the centerpiece of the room and where everyone would have sat of an evening, after chores and before bed. The Fraser place looks like it might have an Aga in the corner for cooking and auxiliary warmth, LOL.

I liked how they played out the Mueller storyline, even going ahead and having the tribe kill him off after he murders their healer. It really sets up how difficult it was for these settlers and the Native Americans in this clash of cultures, while dispensing with a peripheral character without actually messing up the overall story. The show runners have made this nearby NA tribe a lot more aggressive than the book one, which seemed to be happy to live quietly nearby and not cause trouble or interact with the colonists too much. In the book, when Mueller kills the two women it's such a nasty thing since, as far as we had seen, the book tribe hadn't bothered the settlers much. I speculate the smallpox storyline will play out like the book though, next week.

 Showing how much work it took for just Claire to keep up with the homestead while Jamie and Ian were in Woolam's Creek was a good montage on the day to day effort it would have been to stay alive at all. Good thing she had a rocking chair and a wee dram at the end of the day. I wonder if we are going to find out next week that Jamie already has the still set up and Claire was drinking some of the raw moonshine here, (she did make a face when downing it which she wouldn't have done with aged whisky) vs. the actual whisky Jamie should have started aging in the cave.

[morgan]

The furnishings don’t bother me at all because I am assuming they are coming from Jocasta.  Claire made reference to her being home alone in the cabin before so I fanwanked that Jamie has made trips here and there, and Jocasta maybe sent some things along here and there.  

[Ziggy]

3 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

  Reveal hidden contents

their later decision to do a bit of distilling as a side business.

If  Murtagh was so eager to go home that he was willing to turn away Ian’s business, then why is he still there, pumping the bellows, when Jamie comes calling?

Because Ian paid him the 21 shillings.

[Scarlett45]

Seeing Murtagh and Jaime embrace 😭. Quible- wouldn’t a German family settling in the colonies likely be Protestant? Of course a Catholic German may have wanted to leave Germany due to religious reasons. 

[lianau]

Still not liking Murtagh alive . Sorry I tried  to accept that change , I simply can't .

[WatchrTina]

2 hours ago, Ziggy said:

 

5 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

If  Murtagh was so eager to go home that he was willing to turn away Ian’s business, then why is he still there, pumping the bellows, when Jamie comes calling?

Because Ian paid him the 21 shillings.

But he already did the work.  They were in the wagon -- new bit in place , ready to roll -- when Ian reveals how much he had to pay.  It's a tiny nitpick on my part and in the end I understand that Murtagh is still at the forge because the plot needs him to be at the forge -- so Jamie can find him.  

[Ziggy]

1 minute ago, WatchrTina said:

But he already did the work.  They were in the wagon -- new bit in place , ready to roll -- when Ian reveals how much he had to pay.  It's a tiny nitpick on my part and in the end I understand that Murtagh is still at the forge because the plot needs him to be at the forge -- so Jamie can find him.  

I must have missed that!  Good catch.  I didn't realize they had the new bit.  I thought they were to pick it up later.

4 minutes ago, lianau said:

Still not liking Murtagh alive . Sorry I tried  to accept that change , I simply can't .

Interesting that they chose to just give him a story line that wasn't in the book.  I wonder what that will affect down the road.

[Biggie B]

3 hours ago, Glaze Crazy said:

I waffle between wishing I had not read the books and being glad I know them so well that when stuff gets moved around and/or skipped altogether I at least know what direction the basic story is going to, even if it looks different on film.

I've read all the books but not recently enough to recall much but the basics. It's good for me this way; I remember enough to know who lives and who dies, so I'm not overly anxious when I watch. Like in this episode - I knew that Herr Mueller wasn't going to kill Claire, but I had no recollection of this story line or anything about it, so it was still suspenseful enough without causing total panic. I was extremely, extremely upset that the Healer woman was killed - that was vile. I will admit, I did not have a problem with Herr Mueller being killed at the end. I'm not a violent person and don't advocate killing, of course. So perhaps it would be more accurate to say that Herr M. met a fitting end and won't be missed.

I enjoyed the scenes of Claire tending to all the chores by herself. I'd like to think it was a decent depiction of how much has to be done to simply get through a typical day. Even times of rest demanded that you be doing something - knitting or sewing clothing, perhaps cleaning one's tools. No noodling around on the internet or binge watching a series! 

Another moment I liked was Jamie's return - when Claire opened the door, he smiles happily and opens his arms but the second he sees her, he realizes something's wrong and his entire body changes. It was all of perhaps 2 or 3 seconds but it was well done. 

The hour was light on Roger and Bree and that was fine with me. I'm not terribly vested in either of them. I understand  and acknowlege their importance to the show, but I just don't care all that much, although I do like the actor who portrays Roger. I agree with someone upthread that Roger's hat was absurd. It made him look like it was below zero, yet the innkeeper lady was wearing just an open cardigan as she swept the sidewalk - no coat, scarf, boots, or hat, yet Roger looked like he was frozen with that thing on his head.

This was indeed an emotional hour but I didn't feel manipulated. As I said, I don't remember most of the books but for the high level, broad plot, so I am OK with Murtagh being there (I didn't remember he was dead, so...). It's nice to see someone who isn't going to try to kill the two main characters!

[Ziggy]

So excited to see Murtagh!  There's been so much speculation about whether or not he could take the place of Duncan Innes, I can't help but wonder, is Duncan really that important?  It seems like it might be pretty easy to just not include his character at all.  Even in later books, I'm not sure he's necessary.

[GHScorpiosRule]

14 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

But he already did the work.  They were in the wagon -- new bit in place , ready to roll -- when Ian reveals how much he had to pay.  It's a tiny nitpick on my part and in the end I understand that Murtagh is still at the forge because the plot needs him to be at the forge -- so Jamie can find him.  

Maybe Murtagh just said he was done because he had other things he wanted tae do? So he fixed the bit (for an obscene amount) and then continued to do other things. That works for me.

[Nidratime]

Quote

Maybe Murtagh just said he was done because he had other things he wanted tae do? So he fixed the bit (for an obscene amount) and then continued to do other things. That works for me.

Yeah, originally Murtagh said to Ian that he wasn't accepting any more work that day. End of story. But, I would imagine that having accepted the work after all, Murtagh ended up behind in whatever tasks he had originally been planning to do, and so I wasn't surprised to still see him at the shop. Actually, I never gave it a thought.

[nodorothyparker]

I assumed since he already had the forge stoked up from fixing the bit for Ian, he decided to putter around a little longer.  Well, actually I didn't give it much thought.  But I know that often ends up happening for me when I go back to fix one thing and since I'm there anyway, I find myself tinkering around a bit.  Regardless, the story needed him to still be hanging around when Jamie stormed in there to argue the price and I can accept that.

[WatchrTina]

Anyone care to speculate as to why the slutty silversmith's wife was added to the story?  And why Jamie has been carrying around one of their candlesticks?  

I assumed that he was looking for a silversmith who can take a chunk of silver off of one of the candlesticks and make a replacement wedding ring for Claire (since that low-down, dirty varmint Stephen Bonnet stole hers in the first episode.)  But as for why they decided to make the silversmith's wife have a roving eye and a taste for ginger . . . well I have no idea what is behind that.  

[morgan]

When he first meets Bree he thinks she is coming on to him.  I assume hot silver smith wife was to set up how often they probably happens to him/establish a pattern. 

[Nidratime]

Quote

But as for why they decided to make the silversmith's wife have a roving eye and a taste for ginger . . . well I have no idea what is behind that.

Comic relief? It seemed somewhat Monty Pythonish. 

[Ziggy]

3 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Anyone care to speculate as to why the slutty silversmith's wife was added to the story?  And why Jamie has been carrying around one of their candlesticks?  

I assumed that he was looking for a silversmith who can take a chunk of silver off of one of the candlesticks and make a replacement wedding ring for Claire (since that low-down, dirty varmint Stephen Bonnet stole hers in the first episode.)  But as for why they decided to make the silversmith's wife have a roving eye and a taste for ginger . . . well I have no idea what is behind that.  

I'm terrible at recognizing where writers are going with stories, so I'm just going to add to your question :-)

I expected Murtagh to had the candlestick back to Jamie and be upset that Jamie wanted to take something that had belonged to his mother and melt it down.  But didn't Murtagh kind of smile?  I was with you originally ... he wants to make a new ring for Claire.  Now I'm all kinds of confused.

And I agree, what was the point of the slutty wife?

[Cdh20]

30 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Anyone care to speculate as to why the slutty silversmith's wife was added to the story?  And why Jamie has been carrying around one of their candlesticks?  

I assumed that he was looking for a silversmith who can take a chunk of silver off of one of the candlesticks and make a replacement wedding ring for Claire (since that low-down, dirty varmint Stephen Bonnet stole hers in the first episode.)  But as for why they decided to make the silversmith's wife have a roving eye and a taste for ginger . . . well I have no idea what is behind that.  

Well aren't we all the silversmith's wife when it comes to Jamie? 

My guess is he wants a new ring made too.

2 hours ago, Biggie B said:

I enjoyed the scenes of Claire tending to all the chores by herself. I'd like to think it was a decent depiction of how much has to be done to simply get through a typical day. Even times of rest demanded that you be doing something - knitting or sewing clothing, perhaps cleaning one's tools. No noodling around  or binge watching a series! on the internet.

Another moment I liked was Jamie's return - when Claire opened the door, he smiles happily and opens his arms but the second he sees her, he realizes something's wrong and his entire body changes. It was all of perhaps 2 or 3 seconds but it was well done. 

 

 

Lol, my husband said " Poor Claire she doesn't have Tv so she can't watch Outlander tonight!"

Loved how Jamie immediately ran to her & hugged her! 

 

Also Herr Meuller- it was the Europeans that brought diseases to the natives that killed them not the other way around!

Edited December 3, 2018 by Cdh20

[Glaze Crazy]

32 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Anyone care to speculate as to why the slutty silversmith's wife was added to the story?  And why Jamie has been carrying around one of their candlesticks?  

I assumed that he was looking for a silversmith who can take a chunk of silver off of one of the candlesticks and make a replacement wedding ring for Claire (since that low-down, dirty varmint Stephen Bonnet stole hers in the first episode.)  But as for why they decided to make the silversmith's wife have a roving eye and a taste for ginger . . . well I have no idea what is behind that.  

I assumed it was to melt down and/or sell to send money to Laoghaire, since isn't Jamie on the hook for her maintenance still? Only have watched once, but didn't Murtagh say "So, ye married again?" or something like that, before Jamie sent Ian off to get another drink while he then told Murtagh that Claire returned. If I mis-heard then I'm clearly not paying close attention, but if I did hear correctly, I'm paying closer attention than my concurrent computer solitaire game indicates. Hee.

[fresiaa]

It will get a bit awkward if Murtagh wants to know every little bit about the coming Revolution to steer the course of the movement. I don't think I would like that kind of time  loopy thing. In the book Jamie uses the information to stay out of trouble, and lets it happen. Murtagh would not  I am guessing, considering his Dougal spirited speech.  Before you know it he is galloping off to Boston, Philadelphia, Benedict Arnold, etcetera. I had rather not.... rather let history be the back drop, and not try to timey wimey change it.

 

As for the wicked witch, I thought for a moment it is Malva, but of course Malva is a child with a silly dream that didn't think things through on how things would work out. Maybe this is the new older more cunning tv version. Maybe the producers are going for a second Geillis character. (hope not)

 

Nice to see the sow. And I so wanted to hear Clarence balk at Jamies arrival  

[Eureka]

8 hours ago, lianau said:

Still not liking Murtagh alive . Sorry I tried  to accept that change , I simply can't .

I am with you.

[Haleth]

I was thrilled to see Murtagh.  Teared up right before he turned around and again when turned up at the Ridge.  I like the role the writers came up with for him so he isn't stuck at Riverrun in place of Duncan Innes.  Here he can continue to be Jamie's sidekick and sounding board.

I agree the cabin looked too nice to be a rustic 18th c home.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, fresiaa said:

As for the wicked witch, I thought for a moment it is Malva, but of course Malva is a child with a silly dream that didn't think things through on how things would work out. Maybe this is the new older more cunning tv version. Maybe the producers are going for a second Geillis character. (hope not)

Hah! I was thinking: 'This slut better not turn out to be Malva! She's not young enough and she wasn't married.' I hated Malva with the heat of a gazillion million nuns. I hope we don't see Mrs. come-hither again. Since we learned that Murtagh also does silversmith work, so Jamie won't be needing to go over to that house again.

And it didn't even occur to me that Jamie took the candlestick to get another ring made for Claire. Since we know that particular subplot comes up again later in the buik. I thought he was going to get a matching candlestick made so they'd have a set.

31 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I agree the cabin looked too nice to be a rustic 18th c home.

Heh. Like I posted up thread, that didn't even come across me brain--possibly because I think it's been close to a year, and also, because I remember what a gorgeous home Sully made for Michaela in Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman. Even if the latter was a 100 years later. He still built it with his own hands. They've had to compress time a lot this season. 

I totally missed Matt saying they've set up a conflict between Jamie and Murtagh. I'll be frank and admit I'm not in favor of that. I dinna want these two at odds wi' each other. But that's just how this show rolls.

Edited December 3, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[Cdh20]

15 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Hah! I was thinking: 'This slut better not turn out to be Malva! She's not young enough and she wasn't married.' I hated Malva with the heat of a gazillion million nuns. I hope we don't see Mrs. come-hither again. Since we learned that Murtagh also does silversmith work, so Jamie won't be needing to go over to that house again.

And it didn't even occur to me that Jamie took the candlestick to get another ring made for Claire. Since we know that particular subplot comes up again later in the buik. I thought he was going to get a matching candlestick made so they'd have a set.

Heh. Like I posted up thread, that didn't even come across me brain--possibly because I think it's been close to a year, and also, because I remember what a gorgeous home Sully made for Michaela in Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman. Even if the latter was a 100 years later. He still built it with his own hands. They've had to compress time a lot this season. 

I totally missed Matt saying they've set up a conflict between Jamie and Murtagh. I'll be frank and admit I'm not in favor of that. I dinna want these two at odds wi' each other. But that's just how this show rolls.

 

They have a set of candlesticks- at one point Claire looked up at the shelf & noticed there was only 1 up there, as Jamie had the other one!

Edited December 3, 2018 by Cdh20

[Nidratime]

Does anyone have any idea why they changed the name of the Native American medicine woman from Nayawenne (in the book) to Adawehi? Seems an unnecessary change. 

[Atlanta]

10 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

Does anyone have any idea why they changed the name of the Native American medicine woman from Nayawenne (in the book) to Adawehi? Seems an unnecessary change. 

Could it be that Nayawenne is a Tuscarora name and Adawehi is a Cherokee one? In one of the post show interviews, Maril and Matt said they changed the tribe to the Cherokee since there was more historical info regarding language, clothing, customs, etc. One thing that bugs me is that in the book, the Native Americans were fine to live quietly adjacent to the settlers. It seemed a 'we won't bother you if you don't bother us' thing and the Fraser/Murray fam was quite friendly with them. As another poster said, I remember the broad strokes of the book, but not necessarily the details.

[Check Sanity]

45 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

Does anyone have any idea why they changed the name of the Native American medicine woman from Nayawenne (in the book) to Adawehi? Seems an unnecessary change. 

30 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

Could it be that Nayawenne is a Tuscarora name and Adawehi is a Cherokee one? In one of the post show interviews, Maril and Matt said they changed the tribe to the Cherokee since there was more historical info regarding language, clothing, customs, etc. One thing that bugs me is that in the book, the Native Americans were fine to live quietly adjacent to the settlers. It seemed a 'we won't bother you if you don't bother us' thing and the Fraser/Murray fam was quite friendly with them. As another poster said, I remember the broad strokes of the book, but not necessarily the details.

I imagine that the ways in which the different tribes interacted with colonizers is in part why some survived and others didn't. The way the Cherokee handled settlers vs the Tuscarora may be what we're seeing. Another reason could just be the visual medium and the need for visual conflict worth watching as opposed to reading whereas internal conflict is more easily portrayed and entertaining. This is purely my speculation though.

[Ziggy]

That cabin is beautiful!  I want to live there ... but I want running water and internet and heat/ac ...

I can't help but wonder, is this the "cabin" and not the "big house?"  I guess it's not crucial to the story, but that can't really be the big house .... can it?

When did they move in to the big house?  Bree lived in the cabin with them and with Jem at first.  Did they build the big house in this book?

[FnkyChkn34]

11 hours ago, Glaze Crazy said:

I assumed it was to melt down and/or sell to send money to Laoghaire, since isn't Jamie on the hook for her maintenance still? Only have watched once, but didn't Murtagh say "So, ye married again?" or something like that, before Jamie sent Ian off to get another drink while he then told Murtagh that Claire returned. If I mis-heard then I'm clearly not paying close attention, but if I did hear correctly, I'm paying closer attention than my concurrent computer solitaire game indicates. Hee.

Didn't Jamie sell some of the gems for that? I don't think that he is still indebted to Leghair, but I could be wrong. 

And I don't think Murtagh's comment had anything to do with Leghair - Ian said that whatever they are doing with the candlestick (I 100% think it's a new ring) is a surprise for Jamie's wife. So Murtagh just assumed that Jamie remarried, without knowing any other details. That's why Jamie then sent Ian away, to share what only they know about Claire.