S07.E06: Due Process

[Lady Calypso]

Quote

LAUREL STEPS IN TO HELP OLIVER — Slabside becomes even more dangerous after a guard is murdered and everyone is a suspect. Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) enlists help from a surprising source in her pursuit of Diaz (Kirk Acevedo), and Laurel (Katie Cassidy) flexes her muscles as the District Attorney. Kristin Windell directed the episode written by Sarah Tarkhoff & Tonya Kong (#706). Original airdate 11/19/2018.

[insomniadreams88]

Guys, Felicity is totally dead and evil in the future because Dinah says so. Also, because Felicity is totally dead and evil and they have to make sure we "know"/believe that, no one can mention Oliver. Honestly, I'm Team Felicity, no matter what, considering how much (little) her "friends" care about her in the present.

Still don't like Diggle, to the point where I don't even want any more Felicity/Diggle scenes right now and I'm someone who's wanted more of those. Not like this. Not with Diggle saying Felicity pushed him out when he hasn't even asked if she's okay.

In fact, no one's asked if she's okay. 

Don't even get me started on NTA being so happy about getting Diaz that Felicity might as well not have been standing there. Don't even get me started on Curtis. 

Oh, and Stanley's a bad guy. I'm so surprised. *rolls eyes*

Really pissed we've now had more Oliver/Laurel scenes than Oliver/Felicity scenes this season. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by insomniadreams88

[BkWurm1]

I'm not over how Diggle tried to rewrite history but over all, I think I liked this episode.  The flashforwards are implying silly things but it's so obvious that it's not really upsetting.  Plus if Dinah is down on both Oliver and Felicity, I know where my opinion lies, lol.  

The arc between Felicity and Anatoly was really excellent.  And if Diaz hadn't been Felicity's ticket to getting Oliver back, I believe he'd be dead right now.  And I'm not at all upset or worried what that would have done to Felicity's soul.  She'd walk away and live with her demons and see it as justice.  And I would have clapped. 

Curtis I have decided is the friend Felicity can never get rid of because he made her the chip that lets her walk.  Otherwise why would she keep this guy in her life?  In the middle of ALL this and she's still planning him a surprise party??  And Curtis acted like it was his due.  Why are they making him so unlikable???

The prison storyline dragged a lot this week but since we are this close to putting it behind us I'm not surprised they are running out of steam there.  I still believe that Stan is a fan just probably a creepy, murdering little fan.  Maybe in deep need of medication since I think at times he believed his own sob story.  

One more week.  ONE more week.  

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Plus if Dinah is down on both Oliver and Felicity, I know where my opinion lies, lol.  

Seriously -she's a failure of a cop in the present and the future so if she's against whatever they got into, sign me up. I will donate money to their cause.

[KenyaJ]

I hope the rest of the team didn't break their arms patting themselves on the back for getting Diaz. So typical that Felicity has spent the entire season begging all of them to give a damn and now they want to act like they deserve a celebration for all her efforts. I hate them all. And right now, that even includes Diggle. 

Dammit, Stan. I knew you were gonna turn out to be shady, but I was rooting for you!

Kind of hard for me to believe in Evil!Felicity when the love fern is sitting on her desk, but the show sure wants me to believe it. OK, show. But if Felicity really wanted to use her powers for evil, the whole world already would have been burned down to the ground right now. 

Finally, I knew that this show would take the shortcut to Siren's redemption, but even by this show's usual half-assed measures, they have laid this shit on too thick. Her speech to Oliver at the end about everyone having good and bad in them was beyond laughable. Girl, we saw you snapping people's necks for funsies a year ago. You don't get to give self-righteous speeches to anyone. The only thing she's good for is this gif, which I have been laughing at since this afternoon.

[statsgirl]

David Nykl was the MVP of this episode. He sold the terror in the opening scene with Diaz, made me laugh at Anatoly's non-verbal peanut gallery in the bunker with the team discussion, and warmed my heart with his admiration of Dark Felicity.  I'm so glad he's alive to come back another day.

I loved Felicity's password in the future to get into the bunker. But if William can't shoot, was it all set up for Roy?  Did she know Roy was on the island, wearing his red leather suit like a tropical Miss Haversham?

I need a "STFU Curtis" macro. It's too tiring to be typing it out all the time.  Did the writers really think that Curtis getting pissy because no one remembered his birthday in the midest of all that tragedy was going to be cute?  (Poor Felicity, responsible for getting Oliver out of Slabside and planning Curtis' birthday party.)

[apinknightmare]

Quote

Finally, I knew that this show would take the shortcut to Siren's redemption, but even by this show's usual half-assed measures, they have laid this shit on too thick.

Is she getting full credit for the investigation into the treatment of the inmates, because wouldn't Felicity exposing Level Two last week have triggered that? 

[Primal Slayer]

I really enjoyed this episode, one of the rare times they manage to put all of the cast to decent use. 

One of the things I enjoyed was seeing all the different interactions that we got. Just about everyone got to work together and we finally got to see everyones reaction to Felicity working with Laurel. 

Felicity has been on a path of revenge since the season began and she almost gave into full temptation tonight, I'm sure to help support the suspicion that she went dark in the future which I doubt though I wouldnt be against it. Felicity taking on The Calculator name makes me want an E2 crossover SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad! I want to see everyone get to interact with their counterparts and see truly ruthless Felicity. I'm just really hoping that they let future Felicity (because she aint dead) have a ruthless side to her and something that she just lets go after this Diaz arc. I had to laugh when Roy was all "who would want to hurt Felicity" ugh.....plenty of people...she's made a lot of enemies over the years by being part of TA. Diggle giving her a pep talk like dude you havent been there for her emotionally at all this season. Do you two even go out to lunch and just talk about whats going on in each others lives anymore or how she's dealing? You're being a shitty friend. All of this just makes me think "Where is Felicity living right now?" this is something I really need to know and does she even still have protection? All of this was dropped pretty quickly. I'd expect her to move in with Diggle and fam but at this point just let her live with Laurel until Oliver gets out.

Laurel got plenty of to do tonight and I loved it. I enjyoed that she hit a road block in TA/Oliver because getting in on their good graces shouldn't be easy, they should doubt her and she should have to deal with "I'm trying to be a good person but these people just tell me I'm bad, am I just bad? Can I be redeemed?" and she was about to let go and just give in when she didnt results she wanted. I noticed that they have gone out of their way to put her in white when she has 1:1 scenes with Dinah and Dinah in black/darker colors. TA talking about her as if she isnt there and her being "ugh standing RIGHT here" was a good comedic moment, I got a laugh out of it. Curtis chiming in about "you forgot my birthday!" was not though. Laurel/Oliver scene was also really good though I could've used a pinch more snark from her and remind Oliver that he's worked with bad guys in the past so Felicity working with her shouldnt be a surprise. Here's hoping we get a scene with those 3 in the future.

The team getting Diaz seemed way to easy and then Felicity/Laurel are able to waltz in like its no big deal? I cant belive that Dinah would not have an entire team guarding that room, let alone Diggle not getting Argus involved. 

[Angel12d]

I enjoyed this episode more than I thought I would.

Diggle is really annoying me this season though. Retconning their own show in the same season is a new level of dumb, even for Arrow. Felicity has literally begged for help since 702 and all Diggle told her was to move on with her life and refused to give her any help at all. So to then say she pushed him out was BULLSHIT. I'm so frustrated by this because it makes me think Diggle and everyone else abandoning her will just be ignored when Oliver is free.

Also, everyone acting like they caught Diaz when Felicity has basically done all the hard work? CHOKE. Bye.

Guys, I really thought Dinah/BS were gonna kiss in their scene where Dinah is like "you spoke from the heart blah blah." And BS was like "You'd know me more than anyone" or something along those lines. DinahSiren rise! LOL.

I know some said otherwise in the live thread but I have no issues with what Felicity did in this episode. I'm with her every step of the way. As I said, maybe she wouldn't have needed to use Anatoly if they'd helped her when she asked WEEKS ago. Yeah, she made some mistakes but she apologized in the end and that's the most important thing. I loved her scene with Diaz too - the conflict and struggle. Love that.

I'm really bummed about Stan though. They really couldn't let us have this one thing! 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Thank GOD Anatoly is safe. That’s all I fucking care about. Because Lord knows, this whole season is so depressing and it’s not worth getting invested until Oliver is out.

I will admit that finally someone told Black a siren she wasn’t Laurel; could never be Laurel, blah, blah, fish cakes just because.

Pleasepleaseplease and yes!yes!yes! at the look of enlightenment on Oliver’s face when Stan slipped and revealed he knew about the blade.

I know I’m contradicting myself, but I can’t believe the new show runner thinks this is in any way entertaining. 

[apinknightmare]

This episode was better than I was expecting. 

I'm glad that Felicity got a little bit of a tongue lashing over the thing with Anatoly, and then went and apologized and also set him up with a new identity so that he could go off to the Maldives. 

I want the body snatcher who is living in Diggle's body to disappear at once. Who is this dude? I don't know him, and I don't want to. 

Dinah, Curtis and Rene all suck. I hope Rene never comes back in the future, and that Curtis is either dead or relocated and out of the vigilante life. What insufferable, gaslighting jerks. 

I really enjoy Laurel and Felicity's scenes still. I think her redemption arc is too lazy and easy though. She's magically able to be talked out of backsliding, magically able to be a great lawyer with absolutely no slips so far. Ridiculous (but not unexpected for these writers). I hope she struggles again - even more so than we've seen. Because I can't buy her bullshit about not being OtherLaurel, only being "ME" when she's still going around and impersonating OtherLaurel and making a living with people thinking she's her. 

Diaz better be taken care of for a while after next week's episode - I'm tired of his weak, stupid, mumbling ass. 

[Angel12d]

As for the FF. Dinah is still trash. When she was talking about Felicity being dead she was just like "Oh well." And that scene between JH and CH where they're asking if they should trust William "because he is Oliver Queen's son" was PAINFULLY BAD. I felt like I was watching a beginners acting class with all the worst actors in the world. Big mistake putting her in the FF. 

I did like William still having faith in Felicity and not believing she could do bad things. I also don't believe she's evil at all. They were far too heavy handed, probably just to reinforce whatever was happening in the present.

Which brings me to another downside of the FF - I feel like they're writing things in the present specifically for the FF now and that's a mistake. The FF shouldn't dictate what happens in the present at all. I hope this doesn't become a constant thing.

[Mellowyellow]

2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I know I’m contradicting myself, but I can’t believe the new show runner thinks this is in any way entertaining. 

She's a dark and clever person. Clearly you're not sophisticated enough to appreciate her unique jail arc with no Olicity and a beard full of lice. 

[statsgirl]

7 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Diggle is really annoying me this season though. Retconning their own show in the same season is a new level of dumb, even for Arrow. Felicity has literally begged for help since 702 and all Diggle told her was to move on with her life and refused to give her any help at all. So to then say she pushed him out was BULLSHIT. I'm so frustrated by this because it makes me think Diggle and everyone else abandoning her will just be ignored when Oliver is free.

This reminds me of s4 when the show tried to sell that Oliver was right when he didn't tell Felicity about William.  And s5 when Billy died and everyone went to comfort Oliver and no one thought to comfort Felicity. And last season and this one when we were supposed to think that NTA had right on their side because Oliver was such a terrible person.

[BkWurm1]

I was ok with once again not having an Olicity scene because we did still get all of Felicity's emotion on the subject from crossing lines with Anatoly (kind of) to begging Laurel to help Oliver and again, actually selling me on the notion that she got through to BS in a way I just don't seem to buy when she interacts with anyone else.  And of course her nearly killing Diaz because he took her life away.  I mean, girl gets things done.  She's only been out hunting her way for Diaz for a few weeks and he's off the map.  (Well, at least until next week, lol, but that's not her fault)  All of what Felicity did was IMO about Olicity so I'm feeling fed on that front.

That said, I am sooooooo ready for the separation to be over.  

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

This reminds me of s4 when the show tried to sell that Oliver was right when he didn't tell Felicity about William.  And s5 when Billy died and everyone went to comfort Oliver and no one thought to comfort Felicity. And last season and this one when we were supposed to think that NTA had right on their side because Oliver was such a terrible person.

Yeah, didn't buy it then, don't now.  

[JamieLynn832002]

I liked this episode for the most part. I wish PodDiggle would go away and real, non-sucky Diggle would return (at this point, I'm mostly pretending the drug he got from Diaz last season somehow started f-ing up his brain months later) and Curtis and his f-ing birthday need to take several seats but Felicity and Laurel and Felicity and Anatoly were interesting and as much I liked Stanley and didn't want him to be shady, the reveal that he's at least not what he seems was well done.

[Mellowyellow]

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

This reminds me of s4 when the show tried to sell that Oliver was right when he didn't tell Felicity about William.  And s5 when Billy died and everyone went to comfort Oliver and no one thought to comfort Felicity. And last season and this one when we were supposed to think that NTA had right on their side because Oliver was such a terrible person.

You'd hope these writers are just bad at their craft and know it's bullshit but do it anyway to make the plot work. Cuz if this is what they genuinely think decent human interactions are like then.....yiiiikes.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Mellowyellow

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

I liked Stanley and didn't want him to be shady, the reveal that he's at least not what he seems was well done.

He was shady in a way that I wasn't quite expecting (YET, at least). So far he just seems like your run of the mill serial killer who was jonesing for a murder, and not a plant. But maybe he is?

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

You'd hope these writers are just bad at their craft and know it's bullshit but do it anyway to make the plot work. Cuz if this is what They genuinely think decent human interactions are Luke then.....yiiiikes.

On the other hand, we tend to tell ourselves tales to let ourselves off the hook.  Felicity left Argus and Diggle's "help" because his priority and focus was not on Diaz.  So Diggle tells himself that he would have happily kept working with her but she refused and walked away.  But she only walked away because you were not serious about getting the job done first and foremost and when they parted, I thought Diggle acknowledged that, but now he's twisted it around to let himself more off the hook.  

And what was it with Rene trying to rat Felicity out for stuff they both were doing?  And then tattle further?  "Felicity tortured her!"  Not cool dude.  

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

He was shady in a way that I wasn't quite expecting (YET, at least). So far he just seems like your run of the mill serial killer who was jonesing for a murder, and not a plant. But maybe he is?

I agree.  I don't think he's a plant.  Just a serial killer and liar.  But still totes a fan!!  He's played creepy yet weak dude very effectively.  

[Mary0360]

21 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

 

Which brings me to another downside of the FF - I feel like they're writing things in the present specifically for the FF now and that's a mistake. The FF shouldn't dictate what happens in the present at all. I hope this doesn't become a constant thing.

They are basically following the same format they used with the flash backs when they tried to link them to present day 

[Mellowyellow]

9 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

On the other hand, we tend to tell ourselves tales to let ourselves off the hook.  Felicity left Argus and Diggle's "help" because his priority and focus was not on Diaz.  So Diggle tells himself that he would have happily kept working with her but she refused and walked away.  But she only walked away because you were not serious about getting the job done first and foremost and when they parted, I thought Diggle acknowledged that, but now he's twisted it around to let himself more off the hook.  

And what was it with Rene trying to rat Felicity out for stuff they both were doing?  And then tattle further?  "Felicity tortured her!"  Not cool dude.  

I agree.  I don't think he's a plant.  Just a serial killer and liar.  But still totes a fan!!  He's played creepy yet weak dude very effectively.  

You make a good point.

So what's Diggle going to tell Oliver later?

I tried to work with her and protect her but she totally went rogue and started having pizza dates with BS. I didn't know what to do man. 

ETA: I certainly hope people in real life have more self awareness than these characters although Reddit suggests otherwise. 

How do you explain Curtis's special brand of Asshole then?

Edited November 20, 2018 by Mellowyellow

[way2interested]

At least Diggle actually acknowledged that Felicity was the reason they got Diaz by saying "You did it," while the newbies went out to get a drink congratulating themselves XD

[Primal Slayer]

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And what was it with Rene trying to rat Felicity out for stuff they both were doing?  And then tattle further?  "Felicity tortured her!"  Not cool dude.  

They've been pretty consistent with Rene ratting out others when his head is on the chopping block.

[JamieLynn832002]

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And what was it with Rene trying to rat Felicity out for stuff they both were doing?  And then tattle further?  "Felicity tortured her!"  Not cool dude.  

I feel like the moral of this story is that if you trust Rene, you can pretty much count on him selling you out at the first opportunity.  He has sold out Oliver twice and now Felicity, I wonder how long until he finds a way to sell out the new Green Arrow?

[KenyaJ]

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And what was it with Rene trying to rat Felicity out for stuff they both were doing?  And then tattle further?  "Felicity tortured her!"  Not cool dude.

Turning on people who trust him is what he does best, TBH.

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

You make a good point.

So what's Diggle going to tell Oliver later?

I tried to work with her and protect her but she totally went rogue and started having pizza dates with BS. I didn't know what to do man. 

Probably. “I wanted to help her. I called her every day, asked how she was, offered up my guest room, had ARGUS agents protecting her 24/7. She got away from them. No idea how that happened.”

Okay, probably an exaggeration. I’m just really annoyed that none of Felicity’s “friends” seem to care about her in the present or future. 

[Cthulhudrew]

On tonight's Arrow:

Witness the touching reunion of William and Zoe as they reconnect after years apart and bond over a mutual interest in the mystery of Felicity Smoak.

...

...

...

I'm sorry. Did we ever even see these two characters on screen together as kids in any of the prior seasons?!?!?!?

[BkWurm1]

They were at the same trial?

[Angel12d]

15 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

They are basically following the same format they used with the flash backs when they tried to link them to present day 

True but it feels even more forced now. IDK why. 

[calliope1975]

I didn't hate this episode and also wasn't bored - progress! If I'm supposed to be wringing my hands in concern that Felicity is headed down a dark path, well, hahahahaha, bring it! Maybe Felicity wants to level Star City to put it out of its misery. Not that I believe anything Future Dinah is saying. It still doesn't compute that William hasn't seen or heard from his parents in years and is so nonchalant about that. 

I hope Anatoly and Felicity remain text pals. They were the best together. NTA is still the worst. And I am sad to include Digg in that statement. Maybe Barry screwed with the universe again and this is some new version of Digg. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. 

BS is going to have to have about 20 years of "redemption" under her belt before I want anything to do with her. 

[insomniadreams88]

The more I think about it, Dinah has been showing more concern for Laurel, her boyfriend’s killer, than Felicity, her “friend,” in the present or future. 

UGH. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by insomniadreams88
has not had

[Sunshine]

11 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

On tonight's Arrow:

Witness the touching reunion of William and Zoe as they reconnect after years apart and bond over a mutual interest in the mystery of Felicity Smoak.

...

...

...

I'm sorry. Did we ever even see these two characters on screen together as kids in any of the prior seasons?!?!?!?

We’ve never seen them together but there was a throw away line in S5 about Lyla putting them in an ARGUS safe house while Prometheus was on the loose. (I only remember because Diggle said something about It being NORAD)

[tennisgurl]

I swear, I am actually running out of ways to tell Curtis to shut up. I need to go to goggle translate just to get some variety, as I have to say it so often, my phone automatically adds "shut" after I type the name "Curtis". Taire Curtis! Fermu Kurtenojn! Håll Käften! I can go on!

Honestly, all of NTA can jump in a lake, even Diggle, as much as its breaks my heart to say it. Felicity pushed them away? Felicity pushed them away?!? The fuck show have you been watching, John? Because, in the show I watched, she begged her friends to help her and her family, and they all told her to fuck off! YOU told her to fuck off, and let her husband, your best friend, to rot in jail! They were all too happy about new jobs and promotions and birthday parties to care about the Queens having their lives ruined, so when she tried to do something, they all get upset! And then pat themselves on the back for doing the bare minimum! Screw all of these guys, I dont blame future Felicity from telling these guys to screw themselves. 

I mean, she has gotten more support from Black Siren, an actual serial killer, and Anatoly, a professional gangster, than her supposed friends, the "good guys"! Honestly, I left the episode just wanting to watch Anatoly and Felicity hang out. Just cut out the rest of these assholes. God!

[Cthulhudrew]

34 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

They were at the same trial?

 

21 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

We’ve never seen them together but there was a throw away line in S5 about Lyla putting them in an ARGUS safe house while Prometheus was on the loose. (I only remember because Diggle said something about It being NORAD)

Hm. Okay. Still seems like a pretty cheap way to try and force some kind of familiarity between two characters that haven't really had any well established history.

On another note, glad that Anatoly is alive but I really really wish the writers would listen to some real Russian ESL speakers rather than cribbing their dialogue from comic books and Bullwinkle cartoons.

I also wish they'd have let Felicity pull the trigger on Diaz. Not actually kill him (though that would be keen!) but at least pull the trigger and find out that Anatoly didn't load the gun. I guess that would have taken too much away from Fauxrel's heroic turn, though.

(I did think she had a point when she basically confronted Oliver- a murderer himself- about putting people in boxes.)

Speaking of Mushmouth, what happened to Diaz's super strength? Diggle shouldn't have been able to go hand to hand with him the way he did, and wouldn't he be able to break those handcuffs easily? Whatevs. Hopefully this is the last we see of him and the so-called Longbow Hunters for a while. Bring those guys back when they actually either use longbows or they hunt people who do.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[Angel12d]

I almost forgot about wanting to rage punch Curtis after he whined about his birthday. IS HE FOR REAL? WHEN WILL ARROW RELEASE ME FROM MY CURTIS PRISON? DIE ALREADY.

[JamieLynn832002]

I feel like FutureRoy should have gotten suspicious something was up the second he was told Felicity had started calling herself The Calculator. He knows how ridiculous she thought that codename was and shouldn't believe she'd ever call herself that even if he does for some reason accept that she turned dark.

[quarks]

Still felt a bit like filler, but overall, not a bad episode.

Good Things:

1. New Green Arrow! I like this one! Sensibly avoiding all of the negative group dynamics plus possessing an impeccable sense of timing allowing New Green Arrow to jump down at precisely the right moment and help bring in Diaz while not once wasting anyone's time. Also does flips! YAY NEW GREEN ARROW! Just add in some motorcycle jousting and I shall be your fan for life.

2. And awww, the newscaster is also a fan of New Green Arrow. I knew the newscaster and I were soulmates (Why is this newscaster still in Star City after everything that's happened? Why am I still watching this show? See? The newscaster and I are soulmates.)

3. Anatoly and his eye rolling during the whole Team Arrow and Team Not Arrow yelling at Felicity for teaming up with Not-Laurel.

4. In that scene, Not-Laurel reminding everyone that she was right there, and then, understandably, marching out. That was a normal reaction that this show tends not to give the various Laurels. 

5. On that note, various people reminding Laurel that she's not-Laurel.

6. The main Anatoly and Felicity scene about ruthlessness and darkness. Well done by both. Bonus for not having that scene in Arrow's one and only hospital room (minus a couple of points for using props that looked suspiciously like props from the Supergirl sets although to be fair that was about the least of the prop problems in tonight's episode.)

7. Also, Anatoly getting what I'm sure will be only a temporary reprieve in the Maldives, because, this show, but, still. The Maldives! I hope that Felicity also included a nice chunk of funds in some private bank account so that he can stay at a nice suite in the Maldives and go to a spa. He looks like he needs to go to a spa.

8. Felicity assuming that Not-Laurel would be willing to explain how and why bad guys choose their hideouts. Heh.

9. Setting Future Felicity up with what sounded suspiciously like a Supergirl villain? (Comics, not the show.) OOOOH.

Questionable Things:

1. Appreciate the attempt to bring the team back together, Curtis. Less appreciative of a) the way you failed to remember/admit that a good deal of the team splitting up and staying split up is on you, and b) the way you somehow managed to make this about your birthday party. 

2. Way to completely lose Bronze Tiger as a potential ally, Oliver. Geesh. Also, so much for my hope that strategic and perceptive Oliver, who would have seen through that little stunt immediately, was back this season. Oh well. Maybe he'll be back next episode.

3. So, Team Not Arrow and Diggle expect Felicity to be all happy and thrilled now that Diaz is in custody despite the tiny little problem that, uh, Oliver is also still in custody, and that Felicity has been complaining about the Oliver in custody part all season? Nobody thought of assuring her that the next step would be to get Oliver out? Geesh, Team Not Arrow.

Seriously, that was a really uncomfortable scene, with Team Not Arrow and Diggle rejoicing and happy and saying nice things about New Green Arrow while never bringing up the fact that Original Green Arrow is still in jail. Like, the reasons you guys are happy and able to go drinking and talk surprise birthday parties is because Oliver went to jail, and, look, Dinah and Rene have also killed people, and Team Not Arrow's fight with Team Arrow got a lot of people killed last season. Speaking of which:

4. Why is Felicity receiving more emotional and practical support from Not-Laurel and Anatoly than she is from Curtis, Diggle and Dinah? (Rene is at least providing some practical assistance, although telling the others just what Felicity and Not-Laurel were up to, not really one of Rene's finer moments.) For once, I get why Team Flash isn't helping - although you would think someone like Diaz would be someone Barry and Nora would want to put away - or providing the emotional support. I'm a lot less sure why Diggle isn't.

5. Why didn't everyone flee the first warehouse (where Anatoly was in a box) the second they realized that Felicity, Not-Laurel, Argus and even the largely incompetent Star City cops had managed to find the place at the same time, making it a Kinda Obvious Trap

6. Speaking of Not-Laurel, I had to laugh when Not-Laurel, just like Original Laurel, also failed in court. That said, Original Laurel's ongoing failures as a lawyer were among the least fun parts of her character, so, with all full kudos for consistency in ensuring that every version of Laurel sucks at doing law stuff and recognizing that just spending a few months reading some law books is not going to be enough to let you win every case in federal court, I really hope Arrow is not leading us back to the dark days of Laurel continuing to fail as a lawyer.

(Seriously, did anyone tell Not-Laurel that Original Laurel was really not very good at the whole law thing to the point where she dressed up in a costume and went to beat up someone she'd met in an AA meeting because she couldn't do anything about that legally? Or any of the other many, many, many times she failed at a lawyer? Or, if they did, is Not-Laurel counting on that history and figuring that she couldn't possibly be worse?)

7. Felicity, Not-Laurel, Diaz, I realize that the Star City police have not exactly been impressive this season and they are kinda being led by Dinah which makes them even less impressive, but...look, cameras or no cameras, even the most incompetent cop is going to to suspect that something is a bit off when someone enters a room, a bang happens, said someone leaves the room, and a corpse is in said room. So why did no one bring this up/think about it - Felicity in making the original kill plan, Diaz in an attempt to save himself, or Not-Laurel in an attempt to keep Felicity from killing Diaz?

8. So, are we supposed to assume that William and Zoey somehow met and bonded back when William was in witness protection, or, failing that, back last season when Rene wasn't talking to Team Arrow and was - I assumed - too furious with Oliver to arrange for William and Zoey playdates, or, failing that, back when William wasn't talking to Oliver or Felicity because he was understandably still mourning his mother and barely even talking to Raisa? 

9. Future Felicity's bow and arrow password sequence. It's been a long time since I've laughed this hard at this show.

10. Speaking of which, Future Felicity, you do remember that several only somewhat trustworthy people could match Oliver's skill with a bow? Like, say, more or less at random, Malcolm Merlyn, Talia Al Ghul, Nyssa, Thea, and that's just off the top of my head? Why on earth did you think that would be a good security system? 

11. Minor point, but why didn't Roy shoot at those tennis balls? I seem to recall all of us having to suffer through multiple scenes of Roy slapping water, and Roy learning how to shoot a bow, and are you trying to tell me all these years later that those scenes meant nothing, Arrow? Geesh.

12. Also minor point: given that the power/electricity was still on in the Secret Password Locked Place That Can Only Be Opened By These Conveniently Placed Arrows (still laughing) why weren't the lights on anywhere else? I know, I know, it's Arrow, so, dark, but if the power was still on in that part of the building they should have had some power elsewhere.

13. How and why are Roy and Future Dinah Best Buds? Current Dinah is doing nothing to make anyone trust her.

14. Future Felicity calling herself the Calculator. I laughed. 

15. And Future Felicity conveniently "dying" more or less exactly when she sent out the hosen signal. Not that I was particularly worried about Present or Future Felicity actually dying, but if you wanted to keep up the suspense, Arrow, there were better ways to do that. 

[Chyromaniac]

4 minutes ago, quarks said:

awww, the newscaster is also a fan of New Green Arrow.

With the way she was talking up NuArrow, she’s actually jumped to the top of my list of suspects. Also, if it’s true I’m going to call her Auntie Vigilante.

[quarks]

Bad Things:

1. ARROW, SUPERGIRL, FLASH, LEGENDS OF TOMORROW Some of us do watch all four shows, which means that when SUPERGIRL'S PROPS END UP IN ONE OF ARROW'S WAREHOUSES, our first thought is not "ooooh, how interesting, does this mean that Supergirl's Earth is now blending into the Arrow/Flash Earth, which would be a nice foreshadowing of the upcoming crossovers," but "Huh, the camera probably wasn't meant to pick that up, was it?" Can't you at least try to make sure that this doesn't happen in episodes that immediately follow each other? Or at least not two weeks in a row? 

I feel the need to apologize to season three for ever, ever complaining about the set problems back then, because as bad as they were - that was just with two shows, not four. 

2. In related production problems, Arrow, seriously, what is up with your sound mixing? Legends of Tomorrow was fine (well, apart from the small relooping issue during one of the outdoor location scenes), so it can't be your production facilities or my local CW station.

3. This Stanley plot would be a lot more interesting if it weren't so predictable, Arrow, and by predictable, I mean people pointed out that it was coming in episode 1. Worse, the time spent on Stanley has been time not spent with Oliver/Brick, Oliver/Bronze Tiger and Oliver/prison guards, all of which are more interesting, richer relationships.

4. I admit to some bias here because I didn't like the actor before he got on Arrow, but I think Kirk Acevedo may well be the worst actor this show has ever had. Certainly the weakest of the villains. In fact, allow me to apologize to Stanley for ever saying that he was predicable. Compared to Diaz, Stanley, you're amazing.

5. Not-Laurel, if you were a real lawyer, you would know this, but it's not really a great idea for a prosecutor to tell a cop not to show up for any of the prosecutor's cases again. Dinah is almost certainly going to be a witness in some of those cases, Not-Laurel.

6. I get why Dinah decided to go to the courthouse to see if Not-Laurel's legal argument would work. I don't get why Dinah then decided to hang around the parking lot on the off-chance that Not-Laurel would want to go on another killing spree.

7. On a related note, I don't know why Dinah is more interested in turning Not-Laurel into a hero than in any of the following things that you would think would be of interest: a) tracking Diaz, b) tracking the Longbow Hunters, c) trying to figure out who New Green Arrow is, d) trying to figure out why, after six straight seasons of major terrorist attacks, no one has yet thought to put security around the NATURAL GAS PLANT, e) trying to figure out why all of Arrow's villains keep coming back to the same three warehouses, f) trying to figure out why the Star City police haven't just put some nice donut shops by these three warehouses so they have a cosy place to wait for the bad guys, g) stopping crime in the rest of the city, h) doing her paperwork.

That is, I get why Felicity is working with Not-Laurel - the script clarified that they have a mutual enemy, and gave them a chance to become semi-friends. I get why Oliver slightly softened towards Not-Laurel in their second scene - she provided hard proof that she was doing something good.  

Not-Laurel killed the love of Dinah's life less than a year ago. Why is Dinah giving Not-Laurel inspiring speeches? Speeches that would make sense given by literally anyone else in the show, including the newscaster? Including Diaz?

This show. This show.

[Mellowyellow]

A: You are threatening me?

F: Call it an enthusiastic suggestion.

Her demeanour in that entire exchange was awesome!

Go baby go!!!!! 

That and the chilling exchange with Diaz before she converts to the single tear. 

Am I suppose to care about them hinting Future Felicity is a villain? Future Felicity sounds like a total badass! We better get to see her in action! Go forth and be dark and kick arse my precious Felicity. 

Dinah useless as ever and still doesn't give a F about her supposed "friends". The new bird certainly takes after her father too. She's full of self preservation just like her old man. Err why is she BC? Isn't BC supposed to be a hero? Do they write these really bad versions of BC on purpose? 

I am VERY relieved that William, despite his snark and whining about being abandoned still loves his mum enough to try and work out her mystery. He seems like the person with the most to lose. He's successful and rich. He could walk away from this hot mess of a city yet he's willing to risk it for Future Felicity. My heart!!!!!! 

I like the actor who plays future William. Solid acting. No bogies.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Mellowyellow

[Angel12d]

This episode had yet another Dinah vs Silencer fight. How many is that now? 🙄

[Chaser]

Felicity should have grabbed that silencer belt. She could have used it every time NTA talked.

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

I hope the rest of the team didn't break their arms patting themselves on the back for getting Diaz. So typical that Felicity has spent the entire season begging all of them to give a damn and now they want to act like they deserve a celebration for all her efforts. I hate them all. And right now, that even includes Diggle. 

Dammit, Stan. I knew you were gonna turn out to be shady, but I was rooting for you!

Kind of hard for me to believe in Evil!Felicity when the love fern is sitting on her desk, but the show sure wants me to believe it. OK, show. But if Felicity really wanted to use her powers for evil, the whole world already would have been burned down to the ground right now. 

Finally, I knew that this show would take the shortcut to Siren's redemption, but even by this show's usual half-assed measures, they have laid this shit on too thick. Her speech to Oliver at the end about everyone having good and bad in them was beyond laughable. Girl, we saw you snapping people's necks for funsies a year ago. You don't get to give self-righteous speeches to anyone. The only thing she's good for is this gif, which I have been laughing at since this afternoon.

Legit LOL'd. That is flawless.

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I swear, I am actually running out of ways to tell Curtis to shut up

True story. I literally shout "STFU, Curtis" once a week, on Twitter, much to the amusement of one of my mutuals named Curtis...LOL

[TrueMyth]

2 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Speaking of Mushmouth, what happened to Diaz's super strength? Diggle shouldn't have been able to go hand to hand with him the way he did, and wouldn't he be able to break those handcuffs easily? Whatevs. Hopefully this is the last we see of him and the so-called Longbow Hunters for a while. Bring those guys back when they actually either use longbows or they hunt people who do.

Yeah, I wondered about that, too, but now I'm assuming that this is all part of his GRAND PLAN (he likes those; just like Cayden James) to get himself believably arrested, so that he can get into Slabside, so that he can use his wickedly supper strong smashy punches to kill Oliver Queen with his bare hands, and then escape via whatever root his plant, Stanley, has cooked up for him. Of course, Oliver will wipe the floor with him because Oliver can punch walls without drugs, thanks. Don't do drugs, kids.

I hope that the above is not the case, but fear that it may be so.

I liked this episode better than last week. Very nice to finally, finally see Diaz taken down. Glad Felicity got to face off against him.  I would have liked a little more give from that scene. I know Diaz still has to bravado it, but some indication that he believed her for even a moment would have been great.

It was ugly to hear Dinah and Curtis complaining about losing credit to the Green Arrow "again." Even with all their stupidness last season, I didn't think they were mad that Oliver didn't share the credit. I thought they wanted to be a more equal part of the team (which was still stupid to me, but I could kind of understand it). This just makes them seem so small and horrible.

[apinknightmare]

I can't remember - the team knows that Diaz stole super serum, right? Or did they not know what the drug he stole did? 

[sugarbaker design]

Any chance that the current Green Arrow is a character from the FFs?  Just watched the finale of AHS and the latest Doctor Who, so time travel is on my mind.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Any chance that the current Green Arrow is a character from the FFs?  Just watched the finale of AHS and the latest Doctor Who, so time travel is on my mind.

Unless Beth Schwartz is lying, 

Spoiler

No, there’s no chance the new Green Arrow is from the future.

[tennisgurl]

This episode had some good stuff, and some stupid stuff. So, basically this season in a nutshell. 

Its always great to see Anatoly, and he was in fine form tonight! Eye rolling, sassing, and still managing to be more badass than Mumbles even while being tortured and almost murdered. And he and Felicity were a great combination, I love how much he loves Dark Felicity. Game recognizes game I guess. I like that Felicity got called out for the Anatoly plan, which was pretty damn cold, but it wasn't overboard, and I could understand her desperation. Maybe if certain assholes would actually help her, she wouldn't have resort to crap like this! Plus, she made up for it, so its all good.

NTA, and even poor Diggle, are the freaking worst. I already discussed that, but oh my GOD, I just cant with those guys. They dont care about the Queens, constantly whine, and take the credit and act like hot shit for doing the bare minimal. Every time they open their stupid mouths, I want to scream and throw things. 

New Green Arrow seems pretty cool, and only partially because they annoy the Newbies. The enemy of my enemy...

The guy playing older William is good, but I dont care that much about the flash-forwards. I dont buy that Felicity is dead, or that she went evil (although, can you blame her for turning against these assholes?), and most of the future people are assholes, in a crappy future city. I will give it some time though, just it would be nice if the non William actors could take some acting classes?

So now that Mumbles is in jail, can we stop pretending he was or is an actual threat, and not just an annoyance? 

Damn it Stan! We were rooting for you! We were all rooting for you, how dare you?!?!

[Angel12d]

I’ve only now just realized that Diaz wasn’t worried about getting shot by Felicity because of his super strength serum or whatever that was. He probably thought even if she shot him he’d heal quickly or something. 

Isn’t that what it did before? Helped him heal quicker? 

17 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I can't remember - the team knows that Diaz stole super serum, right? Or did they not know what the drug he stole did? 

I think they know he stole a drug but I’m not sure they know exactly what it does. 

[bijoux]

I thought you'd always remain squicky clean, Felicity. Well, I expected you to remain a loyal friend, Diggle, but here we are treading these uncharted waters together. Waters which you contaminate by your current awfulness. I am honestly at the point where I hope Lyla ditches his ass again because she deserves better than a sanctimonious, duciplitous bastard Diggle has matured into. And that is something I never expected to voice. Hey, remember the days he'd make sure to drag Felicity to safety? Someone sure hauled ass before her in that warehouse.

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

David Nykl was the MVP of this episode. He sold the terror in the opening scene with Diaz, made me laugh at Anatoly's non-verbal peanut gallery in the bunker with the team discussion, and warmed my heart with his admiration of Dark Felicity.  I'm so glad he's alive to come back another day.

So glad he lived not only because Anatoly is fun, but because David Nykl fucking rocked this whole episode from beginning to end. He's morally compromised, but right now I'm all for Oliver and Felicity ditching all the losers and bringing Anatoly into their fold. I'd sure be more up to watching his unbelievable redemption story than BS's. I also feel that one could be more realistic and allowed serious set backs and non-starters. Really, both he and the guy playing Stanley are totally great. Stan may be a little psycho, which was not the outcome I was hoping for, but he's a very engaging little psycho.

3 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Speaking of Mushmouth, what happened to Diaz's super strength? Diggle shouldn't have been able to go hand to hand with him the way he did, and wouldn't he be able to break those handcuffs easily? Whatevs. Hopefully this is the last we see of him and the so-called Longbow Hunters for a while. Bring those guys back when they actually either use longbows or they hunt people who do.

Yeah, I was wondering about that as well. Both Dig and wee little NuArrow left their fights with him unscathed. While on the subject, I don't have beef with NuArrow at this point, but why not shoot an arrow into this psycho instead of dropping your weapons to engage in close combat?